lol "there isnt much of a war going on" - how so true. Blu-Ray will win, cause unlike HD-DVD, its not utter $h!t.

haha thats true.....xbox owners beware the xbox is at an end....ur discs are 8GB while the ps3 is 25-50GB and maybe even 100GB.

Toshiba needs to stop drawing out this battle and just admit defeat. Struggling along with a dead format is just hurting the consumers more and more.

While I do believe that blu-ray is the ultimate winner,  this is a tougher battle than most people expected.  If only the HD-DVD camp could just adopt Blu-ray, then it would be a lot better for us.

psn id: gingo... the only way hd dvd ever had a chance of winning is if microsoft had put an hd dvd played into the 360 but since they didn't it was always going to be blu ray all the way

#3 - That will never happen

 
TDK is saying good things about Bluray because they make the hard coat formulation for Bluray media. Right now TDK are trying to sell this business to Imation so in reality TDK dont see a future in Bluray otherwise they would not be selling the business. (SOURCE: Reuters: “In April, TDK announced a plan to sell its recording media business to U.S. disk and tape maker Imation Corp”

In addition...TOKYO, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Columbia Music Entertainment Inc plans to buy TDK Corp.'s music and video software unit for 1.5 billion yen ($13 million) to lower costs and expand into games and educational software, it said on Friday.

Columbia Music will acquire all shares of TDK Core, now wholly-owned by electronic parts maker TDK, at 500 yen per share on Nov. 1, it said.

Panasonic & Pioneer have said some nice things in support of Bluray - but the problem is not one is willing to back Sony up with cash. Sony is really in strife from a cash position and not one of these companies are ponying up any money.

Meanwhile the HD-DVD consortium allies can stump up $150 million for incentives... Why? Because they are rich. Toshiba is making profits (they are buying at least two of Sony's businesses right now) so they are not going to stop pushing HD-DVD as they have a strong business and are expanding. Microsoft can buy complete control of Sony with a single years profit...so they wont stop attacking Bluray because they want to drive Sony into chapter 11. Intel is hardly broke they too could buy Sony's business out of the petty cash tin. In fact Intel teamed up with Nvidia, HP, IBM, LG, Samsung, and Philips and are seeking to cut out HDMI and instead support “DisplayPort” as the industry standard. There will be no royalty fees so all the Chinese manufacturers will love it.

The problem for Sony is that the HD-DVD backers are much bigger and more profitable than Sony is. This war will never end until one side is financially broken.

Since the beginning, blu-ray has been spanking dvd... I have no clue on why they waste there time and money on a losing battle...

If BR win, MS will just release another SKU with a BR drive.  Also if you lean toward films from Paramount, Dreamworks and Universal, you may get a HD-DVD player.  I believe BR is winning at the moment due to PS3 and people just buying the discs because they have a capable player, but the serios film buffs will choose quality movies, and so there may not be an overall winner... best to get a hybrid player..

Poor, poor Paramount studios....millions lost on the home version of the transformer movie. lol

Wait.... HD-DVD doesn't have any burners? Why would they do that? Are they only vying for the home video market? That sorta like putting all their eggs in one basket.

@ The Cleaner

Are you serious? First of all, sony isn't hurting because they are not the only ones backing blu ray. Both panasonic and pioneer have Blu ray players on the market and are contributing to research and development and are helping to rapidly bring down the cost of blu ray hardware and techniques.

It seems like portions of TDK are being aquired so your comment about imation securing one of their divisions doesn't really sound like disinterest. Besides TDK are apart of the BDA which makes what your trying to imply seems silly. I do not know what you are thinking but if you think that sony are the only ones supporting blu ray financially, or in R&D, you are seriously mistaken. What is happening is that they contribute alot to the advertisment and they are the head of licensing. You will see Sony's name alot, especially because of the PS3 but don't think Sony is the lifeline of all blu ray operations.

Besides those "incentives" are more of an act of desperation from HD-DVD camp. The issue is that blu ray stand alone hardware sales did surpass HD DVD's. http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Hardware/Toshiba/Toshiba:_HD_DVD_Stand-Alone_Players_Back_on_Top/1055

This is something they quickly danced around and didn't admit it until they regained their dominance. They are sweating bullets. Not to mention they cannot match the PS3. It is more than obvious by now that a decent portion of PS3 owners do purchase blu rays because of the share fact that software sales are double (and sometimes more than that) of HD DVD's.

HD-DVD is in trouble and they know it and anyone trying to say they aren't are really trying to spin the situation.

Blu ray which was never submitted to the DVD forum still is supported by 8 out of 10 DVD forum founders and 170-180 of the 220 dvd forum affiliates. I think you need to research who is supporting blu ray and who is supporting HD DVD and rethink your claim about which camp has the most money to spend behind it.

adios hd dvd !!!

Fo' Sure'

only way hd-dvd will be equal and tied if they had more companies backing them. Microsoft chose hd-dvd probably because they just threw it in there for extra money they can earn from consumers. But overall blu ray is the way to go.. And if microsoft decides to use a blu ray add on for the 360 it would be like they are admitting their loss in the hd format war.

Blue-Ray on 61" samsung 1080p looks like HEAVEN !  ! ! !

Microsoft only choose HD DVD because it was the format going against Sony.  They wont go BluRay because then they would be paying royalties to Sony for every unit sold, and every game sold!

Microsoft KNOWS that HD DVD isnt going to win, its why they choose not to put it in the 360.

Gee someone like Blu-ray a whole lots lol. Regardless, the consumer has to adopt either HD-DVD or Blu-ray and at some point decrease regular DVD's sales in order to truly end this war and have a clear winner. With that in mind when will we see a winner? Will there be a stalemate? Or will something out of the blue end this? Who knows thats why many consumers are still iffy on choosing which one, even if Blu-ray is new technology with loads of possobilities beyond just he PS3. :)

@ The Cleaner

Your point is loaded with bias.  First of all nobody is buying two of Sony's businesses.  Sony is not a split corporation like Microsoft, it is a single corporation so it only has ONE business to sell.  All sectors are financially tied.  Also,  it would cost far more than petty cash to buy Sony... a corporation that sees $50 million worth of shares trade hands EVERY DAY, a corporation that showes over a billion dollar (U.S.) profit every quarter!!  You know the company that has lost nearly 1.5 billion on it's PS3 hardware so far and still shows profits.  Basically if you want to be taken seriously find some better points for you arguments.

TDK.... so real!

It's about time a company acted like it has some common sense.

@Uncool. There is nothing blu ray can do that the PS3 can't. Adding blu ray in to the PS3 gives so many advantages in the console war. Too many to count. Every existing blu ray player is firmware upgradable, there will never really be a better blu ray player than the PS3.

I still don't understand how you can say it's impossible to know who is going to win the format war. Blu Ray accounts for 92% of all HD format, I'd say that's a pretty clear indication of who is going to win.

I reason I said what I said lithgow is that the consumer ultimately chooses which format will be the winner. I still think because of the amount of support by movie producers as well as Sony's move to add it to the PS3 was the right move. I think by 2010 the format war will end and blu-ray will be announced as the winner. However until then we just have to see how everything end up being.

@Uncool

You make it seem as if consumer continue to buy DVD's en masse that the next gen format cannot bee won. I beg to differ. When the numbers become more skewed (either in favor for HD DVD or Blu Ray) that one format will be left and therefore "IF and WHEN" consumers want to go to the next level they will only have one choice. I know many people who still will watch and purchase video tapes and I even have family members that are just hoping onto the dvd wagon.

@Uncool: I agree with you, but not about 2010. Maybe that'll be the time when DVD's are phased out but not when Blu Ray actually wins. It'll be more beginning of 2009 when it's pretty much set in stone. With PS3 being the expected console winner for many reasons (by many analysts, not only my own statement) that's a hel.l of a lot of blu ray players being sold right there. With almost every single motion picture company backing blu ray, and many exclusively, and with blu ray accounting for 92% of all HD format, I think HD DVD is not even really in the picture anymore, and so much less after the holidays.

@staticneuron - which is why I am waiting for when the scales are typed hugely in favor of one format an only one. Those people choosing DVD's now in a year or 2 will essentialy go an buy BD's as prices drop in both this and HDTV's, making way for new and improved models of both. I am waiting for when I can view entire season's on blu-ray, something most if not all people wanting to get into the HD era now are anticipating diligently for.

@ lithgow - as someonce once told me, it ain't over til its over. Unless HD-DVD fall's out of favor in the general public and Blu-ray movies becomes a standard soon then perhaps this format war can come to a close. This is a reason why I stated 2010 to be the end of the war itself as it leaves a good amount of time to see how things  are done and the decisions behind each competing format. :)

yeah Blu-ray will def. win. i am mad tho that Transformers doesnt come out tomorrow on it. BUT i read it comes out in early december on blu-ray. can anyone confirm?

EVERYONE...let's not argue amongst ourselves. As far I can tell, we all want BD the standard for HD...everything!  In that case, SELL BD to everyone! If the PS3 has sold you, the commercials and advertisements have sold you...then it is in our interest to make BD the one and only on the market in the near future!!! No amount of money can buy out the consumers, because if HD-DVD decided to sell their software at well below selling price...then Profittering from the product will take waaaaay long!

PS. I'm sure there are millions of people out there who are not so happy with MS. In my opinion, those companies fully 100% backing HD-DVD (eg. M$) are just greedy profittering corporations who think they can have everything...or the whole market! The only I've seen from these companies is that they've gotten even greedier over the years with nothing to show for! If I could afford it, I'd buy a virus free iMac than a pc notebook!! :)

#11

No TDK are completely exiting the media & Bluray related business. Completely. Finito! IE they wont be a member, they wont make anything Bluray related in fact the only thing TDK will make 6 months from now are MR Heads for hard drives....

#19

Your points: (A): Sony being highly profitable? (B) No business units are for sale?

(A) If you deposited $500,000 into a bank account and at the end of the year the bank told you that your money had earned $15,000 in interest would you be happy? Your answer should be no. The standard 12 month fixed term bank rate should offer around 6% so you should earn at the least $30,000 on your money in a boring but very safe Government guaranteed Bank Account.

For investments into shares where the risk is greater the returns should be double digit (IE: greater than 10%) so in our $500,000 investment example your return should be more than $50,000 each year.

Based on Sony's yearly profits that $500,000 invested would recieve a return of just $2,300.

Lets look a little closer at your statement about the profit Sony makes: Sony's Share price is on average $47.10 per share. The total capitalization is the average share price multiplied by the number of shares released. In this case Sony's market capitalization is 1,000,000 x this value = $47,000,000,000. This is the amount of share holders money invested. The return paid as a dividend was 0.46% ...Thats less than 1% return on investment.

Now you might say ... the bad return was just for that one year.... So lets look at the market capitalization of Sony at the start of this past decade until now. Investors had paid a total of $151.6 Billion into Sony at the start....today they have just $47 Billion left so that is a loss in value of $104 Billion.... is this good? Obviously not, and this is the reason why Sony is selling divisions - it needs to raise cash as it has no free funds available. In stark comparison; Nintendo's market capitalisation continues to grow and is today valued at $85 Billion. Had you invested your $500,000 in Nintendo since the begining of the decade today you would have $3,170,000 - very nice thankyou... $500,000 invested in Sony over the same period and it would be worth $192,660 - see the problem?

(B) Yes Toshiba are buying two divisions of Sony - just Google it. Yes Sony are floating off their financial arm to raise funds. Yes they are folding off their OLED display arm into a joint venture (so that Sony does not have to contribute cash for R&D) Sony is not one business - their music business is now partially owned by Bertelsman. All of this news is already in the public domain - just go look and read for yourself...

THE POINT I AM TRYING TO ILLUSTRATE HERE...

Bluray is killing Sony - the company staked way too much on its success and if it does not pay, Sony will be in serious trouble. - That is IF it continues to pour funds into the Bluray hole. If they simply keep Bluray as is and stop pouring precious cash into generating consumer demand for Bluray - they might just survive. "HD" of any format is not catching on fast enough. No one will win and all are loosing money trying to sell it.

My point here is to say that in war sometimes its better to do a tactical retreat and refocus your remaining troops in a single battle. Sony should stop spending any funds supporting Bluray as a next gen media and refocus those funds behind PS3. Why do you think Sony has not been able to buy exclusives? Why has there been no advertising? Why has Sony been unable to propperly subsidise PS3 pricing? ANSWER: Their funds are spread to thinly defending other battles grounds.

I'll end on  my statement that "Microsoft could buy control of Sony with just one years profit" Lets take this year (the one where MS has taken a $1.6Billion charge over Xbox failures)...Microsoft's full year profit is $22 Billion - to buy 51% control of Sony would cost $23.5 Billion ... so am I exaggerating...sadly not. Microsoft's excess cash reserves are currently US$49 Billion. Sony's net cash reserves is (-$698 million)... it has borrowed.

I love Playstation – and it saddens me to think this might be the last. Every time Sony's management takes the focus off PS3 being a games console - they loose. Everytime they try and push it as a Bluray multimedia machine - they loose. Everytime Sony does PR for Bluray instead of doing propper PR for PS3 - they loose. Take the focus off Bluray and come out fighting for Playstation! They can still win that fight if they act now.

@ The cleaner

1. http://www.tdk.co.jp/teaah01/aah21400.htm

TDK already sold part of its division to Imation. But there are various parts of the agreement that keeps TDK alive both in operation and business.

"TDK will continue R&D and manufacturing operations for recording media products including audio, video and data storage tape, and Blu-ray optical discs. TDK will supply Imation as well as its other OEM customers."

 Your assumption about TDK seems to be based off of the rueters article only which says nothing about the future of TDK and blu ray being at stake.

#2 Wow.... I have never seen that? You are actually serious as it seems. First of all Sony brings in 20 billion dollars more than microsoft every year. Their loans are normally leveraged aganst their assets which I assure you..... they still have plenty off. And in case your not paying attention, Sony has always borrowed money against a negative income and the size and the profit of the company has grown tremendously ( and the operations) instead of collapsing.  Sony has options and a hamhocked overview of financial statements always doesn't provide the complete status of a company.

And the Biggest point I was trying to put across is that SONY ISN"T THE ONLY COMPANY PUTTING UP FOR BLU RAY. As far as money goes they are advertising ( and they are more promenant only because of the PS3 and the assigned face), which in one hand is bundled with their movie division and PS3 division and they are slightly involved with the materials and manufacturing. But the most expensive parts about Blu ray which is without a doubt R&D sony is not shouldering at all.

Blu Ray is not killing Sony and your assumption that Sony is spending more on blu ray then actually game development or movie production I don't see how you can come to this conclusion. Where do you get your information from?

Without spending too much more time on this....

Go past that old press release. Go look under products (http://www.tdk.co.jp/tebck01/index.htm) then tell us what you see... Thin Film Magnetic heads. Quick update as of two weeks ago TDK are folding their business into ALPS Electronics only IE: Hard Drive Heads only - Its in the Chairmans Memorandum.

As for Sony profit...I dont follow. Are you saying that there wasnt really any losses in capitalisation and that Sony Anual Reports from 2000 - 2006 are all BS? If so thats breaking news... And I think you're confusing Revenue as being Profit ??? 

Sony has Revenue of $63 Billion...Revenue. Just to put your statement into perspective...ENRON had revenue of $111 Billion before it collapsed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal   - I also think you'll find that what your suggesting - Borrowing against revenue is now illegal and for good reason. I dont think Sony are infact doing anything silly like your suggesting otherwise the Management would be put inside a prison cell.

 A loss in capitalisation is real - the people who purchased shares in Sony at the start of the decade have now lost in real terms two thirds of their entire investment. that's a pretty bad thing. A profitability return in dividend of 0.46% is pretty upsetting and I think you'll find them all crying - Go tell them about revenue.... While your there go cheer up the Enron shareholders too.

"Their loans are normally leveraged aganst their assets" I never said borrow against revenue.

Maybe you misunderstand what revenue is, dictionary term: Revenue is a business term for the amount of money that a company receives from its activities in a given period, mostly from sales of products and/or services to customers.

Profit is basically what is left after expenses and additional investments.  ENRON lied about their revenue and profits. Pretty much claiming that "other" companies were purchasing services when in actuallity they were just seperate branches of ENRON. I am overly simplifying but Revenue had nothing to do with ENRON's downfall only the fact that the lied about it.

Back to sony.... are you willing to say that sony's revenue is false? I hope you are not trying to go down that path. The point is after expensis actually sony does have billions left over, the reason it doesn't show as profit is because they reinvest it back into their companie or other projects. Some that may yeild incredible returns or actually make them lose money. Movies, music, electronics so forth and so on. Recently they expanded a financial branch of their company for lending. When talking about Sony.. just using profit they make is pretty silly. Because they can reorginize their finances to support other aspects of their companies or leverage their assets which they have billions of. ["An asset is a resource controlled by the enterprise as a result of past events and from which future economic benefits are expected to flow to the enterprise." Cash, bonds, property, Intangible assets( hard to asses worth, prepaid so forth and so on. FYI]

Bottom line, You do not have a clear grasp on what sony can or cannot do ( not many people outside of sony can either) and just glancing over financial reports won't make you an expert.

Financial Reports are designed to make it easy to see how much free cashlow a company is generating....or not generating.

Toshiba announced that they had purchased Sony's Semicon business today. Thats the third Sony business unit sale in the past 90 days by the way.

Profit = Free cashflow .... does that paint a full picture? No. They just sold their fabrication plant. They recieved 1 billion yen and the no longer carry the burden of oprating costs. But here is where thier options  may not be conveyed through a financial report. Instead of profit... which on a financial report may look good  to you. But to sony that was an asset that they can now redirect back into ANY portion of the company they would like. That may include turning it into another asset, trying to streamline current operations. Bankroll into new operations, invest in R&D , software development, game studios, movie studios, financial............... well you get the point right?

They sold one of their assets and turned it into free cashflow.... one that on a financial report was seen as an operating cost.