View Full Version : NVIDIA employs forum community figures?
xboxfanboi
02-10-2006, 18:52
A viral marketting campaigne to skew community perspective?
Actually this isn't anything new. Microsoft is notorious at this as well. Since it's hard to believe articles and press releases, these new trends have been surfacing to skew public perspective.
Nvidia article (http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/evil/did-nvidia-hire-online-actors-to-promote-their-products-152874.php)
joystiq article (homepage) (http://www.joystiq.com/)
...and I'm not getting paid to post this :)
That's BS. It has been well known that Nvidia hires some people to help them out with questions. About a week ago some ATI fanboy tried to start BS rumors that Nvidia is hiring people to market for them.
Sorry, but Nvidia's benchmarks can speak for themselves. ATIs 1900 FINALLY catches up with the 7800, but when the G71 hits, ATI will be right back to being second class. What do the ATI fanboys do when they play second fiddle for over a year straight? They start nasty rumors, like this one.
Col. Peck3r
02-10-2006, 18:58
Lefein is right, Nvidia is number 1 for gamers, hands down. ATI cards can't even run some applications used at game studios, thats weak.
Organic_Shadow
02-10-2006, 18:58
I heard about ATi and nVidia both doing this a while back and having a bit of an undercover "forum" war! LOL :lol:
I think it's silly, because we already have regular people who are very biased and opinionated toward certain companies and products. We ALREADY get enough people telling how one thing is better than the other, so if these other guys are getting paid to do it, then more power to them.
xboxfanboi
02-10-2006, 19:06
Actually it isn't a rumor. It's been admitted -
Stephanie Schopp, an employee of Nvidia's marketing buddies at AEG, replied to the post assuring us that "the program... is far less nefarious than your rather damaging article/blog above claims it to be." She continues, "These members were not 'paid in hardware' as your article states, but sent hardware to give us (NVIDIA through AEG) feedback, positive or negative, regarding their experience with it. They were never told what to say, nor did they sign any document forbidding them to discuss their relationship with NVIDIA or AEG. They are not actors: they were real, informed, hardware enthusiasts that could help us further understand what it was the community wanted from hardware vendors." She then directs us to two posts regarding the issue.
And from the article topic, this wasn't a ATI vs. NVIDIA tangent. I wonder why people got all defensive all of a sudden :lol:
That's BS. It has been well known that Nvidia hires some people to help them out with questions. About a week ago some ATI fanboy tried to start BS rumors that Nvidia is hiring people to market for them.
Sorry, but Nvidia's benchmarks can speak for themselves. ATIs 1900 FINALLY catches up with the 7800, but when the G71 hits, ATI will be right back to being second class. What do the ATI fanboys do when they play second fiddle for over a year straight? They start nasty rumors, like this one.
Nvidia isn't all that. People keep saying here that Nvidia was always better, but they don't know the history. The Geforce and Geforce2 series were great, the Geforce3 series was outclassed by the Radeon 8500, and then Nvidia messed up the Geforce4 shaders and the Geforce FX series was a total flop. It wasn't until the 6800 that they regained credibility.
ATI reigned king in the Radeon 9700/9800 era (which competed with Geforce4/FX). Their X800 series wasn't all that great compared to the 6800 series, but their X1800/X1900 series brings them back to top performance.
They're both great companies and they always exchange the lead at the high end (which is such a small part of the market that it doesn't really matter anyways, outside of bragging rights).
Actually it isn't a rumor. It's been admitted -
Stephanie Schopp, an employee of Nvidia's marketing buddies at AEG, replied to the post assuring us that "the program... is far less nefarious than your rather damaging article/blog above claims it to be." She continues, "These members were not 'paid in hardware' as your article states, but sent hardware to give us (NVIDIA through AEG) feedback, positive or negative, regarding their experience with it. They were never told what to say, nor did they sign any document forbidding them to discuss their relationship with NVIDIA or AEG. They are not actors: they were real, informed, hardware enthusiasts that could help us further understand what it was the community wanted from hardware vendors." She then directs us to two posts regarding the issue.
And from the article topic, this wasn't a ATI vs. NVIDIA tangent. I wonder why people got all defensive all of a sudden :lol:
Actually, it was a rumor, as the bloggers, (ever open to conspiracy theories, [I should know, I'm a blogger]), jumped to conclusions and spread around the nVidia was actually forcing people to say things on message boards they did not believe. THAT part was not true. They used it as a marketing tool in the traditional sense of gathering information.
Nvidia messed up the Geforce4 shaders and the Geforce FX series was a total flop. It wasn't until the 6800 that they regained credibility.
QFT. The 5200 -> 5950 were utter crap.
xboxfanboi
02-10-2006, 19:13
So Stephanie Schopp is a nonexistent entity and her quote magically procured itself?
You don't make sense.
She already has claimed to be an associate of a company that deals business with NVIDIA. So it's not rumor.
What it is, Mr. JordanL is semantics.
Bottom line, people got hardware (for free). That act causes a favorable response - which then virally makes its way into communities.
Whatever that act is called (some say bribery, some say promotion) doesn't change the fact of what the act is.
KBsmoker
02-10-2006, 19:19
what does this have to do with the ps3 again? :?:
So Stephanie Schopp is a nonexistent entity and her quote magically procured itself?
You don't make sense.
She already has claimed to be an associate of a company that deals business with NVIDIA. So it's not rumor.
What it is, Mr. JordanL is semantics.
Bottom line, people got hardware (for free). That act causes a favorable response - which then virally makes its way into communities.
Whatever that act is called (some say bribery, some say promotion) doesn't change the fact of what the act is.
Did you even read the fucking quote? They "gave" people hardware to TEST it and review it and give them real-world feedback, and didn't even restrict them from saying that they were in some form of a business relationship with nvidia or AEG.
You need to either learn a little bit about law, or learn a little bit about business.
xboxfanboi
02-10-2006, 19:33
Not restricted?
Quite the contrary. Being associated with a promotional campaigne to seed viral information about products is rampant already. Has there been A SINGLE post where someone has claimed to be part of AEG or any viral marketing company in general?
You'll be pressed to find one.
That means there is a restriction, stated or otherwise. Either the user doesn't divulge this information because it would make their forum posts have less wieght, or the restriction comes from higher up...which makes it more insidious.
If there are no restrictions why isn't there a public roster available of all of the usernames and what communities are being targetted.
It's not rocket science to see that it's kept quiet.
http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/evil/nvidia-focus-group-member-details-hidden-program-153378.php
But why was the Focus Group program hidden?
AEG states in a statement to Shacknews that “The names of those individuals whom we solicit opinions from are not made public in order to assure the quality and honesty of feedback from consumers.” Isn’t it fair to the peer group of the Focus Group participants to know that their trusted source happens to get free gear from Nvidia?
Do you honestly believe this is the reason why this information is hidden. Be real. If honesty and quality was their goal then their product should speak for themselves right? There shouldn't be a need for a viral campaigne.
Don't dig yourself a bigger hole dude. And you are one to talk regarding what I know or don't know. You can't even articulately argue your view. Talk to me when you get past your 8th grade grammar.
Not restricted?
Quite the contrary. Being associated with a promotional campaigne to seed viral information about products is rampant already. Has there been A SINGLE post where someone has claimed to be part of AEG or any viral marketing company in general?
You'll be pressed to find one.
That means there is a restriction, stated or otherwise. Either the user doesn't divulge this information because it would make their forum posts have less wieght, or the restriction comes from higher up...which makes it more insidious.
If there are no restrictions why isn't there a public roster available of all of the usernames and what communities are being targetted.
It's not rocket science to see that it's kept quiet.
You've got to be kidding me.
You honestly know NOTHING about business if you think that the lack of an active campaign to disclose information costitutes a malicious NDA. Not to mention the legal implications of what you are saying given this statement:
"These members were not 'paid in hardware' as your article states, but sent hardware to give us (NVIDIA through AEG) feedback, positive or negative, regarding their experience with it. They were never told what to say, nor did they sign any document forbidding them to discuss their relationship with NVIDIA or AEG."
Conspiracy theories are easy to believe, but almost never hold any weight. You, sir, are a victim of your own dispositions. A company can never be held responsible for the "shame" of its business parters for the nature of their relationship and their inclination to avoid discussion of said relationship as a result. If the forumites who took the opertunity to review the hardware were so embarressed by that action, why did they agree to it?
Do you honestly believe this is the reason why this information is hidden.
There was no information hidden. :roll:
There shouldn't be a need for a viral campaigne.
There was no viral marketing campaign. What happened was an attempt to gather information from real people about products which will eventually be sold. Get that through your head.
And you are one to talk regarding what I know or don't know. You can't even articulately argue your view. Talk to me when you get past your 8th grade grammar.
Hmmm... nice edit there.... what was the point? I can't take attacks on my grammar seriously from a person who uses the word "boi" in their handle. :roll:
xboxfanboi
02-10-2006, 19:46
Actually - an NDA was signed.
Further proof you're digging yourself another hole.
I spoke on the phone with Stephanie at AEG after this story broke in an effort to investigate the situation. She flat-out told me that AEG actively seeks influential members of message boards to approach for membership in their marketing program. These members are required to sign a NDA about the program’s very existence. The recent news I was told by a member of this program is that NVIDIA is now offering them 30” widescreen LCDs. This suggests just how much $$$ is being poured into this new outreach effort.
These people are indeed viral marketers, but NVIDIA also expects them to provide the company feedback on the parts they’re given, so I think the company likes to promote this angle as an excuse for the fact that, at the end of the day, it’s still viral marketing. Ask Perez why AEG requires an NDA from its members preventing them from even admitting that the program even exists!
oh, more interesting reading for you.
President of NVIDIA responds.
Update:: Mr. Perez called! After informing us that he would be having his legal department contact us for posting his emails, he assured us, among other things, that no members of this program were under NDA from Nvidia or AEG nor were they given any 30-inch LCD monitors for participation in the program. Mr. Perez also attempted to explain to us how marketing works.
We tried to explain to Mr. Perez that if the fan program from Nvidia was as innocuous as he claims, he should have no problem sending us the details of the program, what products are given away to fans to “pass on” information about Nvidia, and who from the community was a participant in the program.
Mr. Perez’s response? “Why does that matter?”
We suppose that if no one else is angry about this, it doesn’t, actually.
So not only did the NVIDIA president lie about not having to sign an NDA (which his third party AEG clearly requires), he doesn't wish to disclose exactly how big the effort is to reach (and skew) community perceptions of their products.
So what were you saying again about forum posters not being legally binded prohibiting disclosure?
Actually - an NDA was signed.
As there are legal implications about false representation of contracts, but no legal implications about libel on the internet, I'm more inclined to believe the official statement which says there is no NDA than some guy who made a post on the internet, as the official statement faces legal scrutiny where the internet post does not.
Further proof you're digging yourself another hole.
I fail to see how I'm digging myself anything.
So what were you saying again about forum posters not being legally binded prohibiting disclosure?
I would respond, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "legally binded prohibiting disclosure"... half that sentence is in the present tense and half of it is in the past tense, so I'm not sure to exactly what you're referring. It also seems like you might be missing a critical noun inbetween "binded" and "prohibiting"... since grammar is so critical and all.
xboxfanboi
02-10-2006, 19:51
That is what I thought. Your 30'' LCD is in the mail dude. Don't even let me begin where I can scrutinize your wretched grammar either. You have enough posts for me to go through :/
That is what I thought. Your 30'' LCD is in the mail dude.
????
Now you've completely lost me. What?
Don't even let me begin where I can scrutinize your wretched grammar either. You have enough posts for me to go through :/
I didn't bring grammar up, that was you. I only brought it up because I honestly couldn't make sense out of what you said. You used an adverb, two verbs, then a noun. It doesn't make sense, and I just don't know what you were trying to say.
On a side note, I think you are implying that I am defending nvidia because I'm "also employed" by them? In that case, I guess all I can offer is the knowlege that my stating that I am not would be a felony, (if it were the case), and no felony is worth a 30" TV, (especially when the felony is so easy to track and prosecute). I'm my own thinker, and nothing pisses me off more than people like you stating that I don't think for myself. I abhorred the entire school system growing up, and had terrible grades, because the entire despicable system was centered around not letting others think for themselves. That is the one attack on my character I will not stand.
...
And just for the record, "begin where" is a grammatical travesty... you never put anything but another verb after the word "begin" as begin is used to form compound verbs.
sevendesigns
02-10-2006, 20:12
Sorry to interrupt, but i'm trying to understand how this has anything to do with the PS3, lol. I like debates... keep it going.
Sorry to interrupt, but i'm trying to understand how this has anything to do with the PS3, lol. I like debates... keep it going.
The implication is that the information we know about RSX is bought and planted by nvidia as well.
KBsmoker
02-10-2006, 20:35
Sorry to interrupt, but i'm trying to understand how this has anything to do with the PS3, lol. I like debates... keep it going.
The implication is that the information we know about RSX is bought and planted by nvidia as well.huh? the only info we know about the rsx is from e3 last year. Nothing else has come out.
Sorry to interrupt, but i'm trying to understand how this has anything to do with the PS3, lol. I like debates... keep it going.
The implication is that the information we know about RSX is bought and planted by nvidia as well.huh? the only info we know about the rsx is from e3 last year. Nothing else has come out.
I know. I never said that the implication was a smart one.
Let the benchmarks speak for themselves. I never claimed that Nvidia was always the top performer, but ATI has been taking all of this pretty hard no matter what you say. NVidia got their act together with the 6800 series and ATI had to appeal to the WGF God to get their way... Or have any of you kept up with what MS is doing to OpenGL in Vista?
Now THATS the real shennanigans. Want some dirt to dig up? Look up what Vista does to OpenGL games... This AEG stuff isn't anything compared to that. BTW, the Nvidia rep didnt say anything I didnt at the top of this thread. Nvidia paid some people for feedback... They also answered some questions.. Nothing too sneaky there.
Its just a shift like it always has been, Nvidia single cards have been getting owned by single ATI cards when the 9700 series cards came out up until Nvidia went hit their sophmore year with SLI and anything Nvidia made after that has been golden. SLI was and still is a waste of money along with ATI's crossfire.
mrnagy88
02-11-2006, 05:07
The whole argument is so farfetched...
It's how all graphics card manufacturers get feed-back on their products...
As you know, graphics cards are expensive!
The [edit: latest graphics cards] cost $500 US... imagine trying to get a real public opinion of a product you just released, only the most hard-core of gamers would be able to afford it, and only the richest people would ever spend $500 on a single component in a computer....
Graphics card manufacturers release several versions of each chip-set that is designed, by tweaking it, adding memory etc... How in the world can they get unbiased public opinion on their product, other than by providing the graphics cards to them?
If they expected people to buy the cards just to test them, those consumers would have to spend thousands of dollars a year upgrading/swapping their video card.
It does not make it "Viral marketing" whatsoever.
ATI, I don't know about forums, but check out www.tomshardware.com
Started by Tom himself, this company has been around for over 10 years generating reviews of PC components... He does reviews on both Nvidia cards, as well as ATI Cards, but any graphics guru will tell you, his site has become biased towards ATI. He consistantly writes reviews that favor ATI cards over Nvidia ones of similar/better quality. Is this viral marketing? I wouldn't go so far as to say that it is, unless Tom works for ATI, then I would say no, it could be his own personal preference, heck he could even be from Canada, like myself... They manufacture ATI graphics cards not too far away from where I live.
boi, you need to start thinking for yourself, and start using some logic. Try doing a bit of research instead of believing everything you read on a single website, please!
lol sorry about that, I meant to write the 7800, it was late at night! :-)
Crazy Phat
02-11-2006, 05:41
The RSX is not a PC graphics card but a console graphics card that is in the PS3.
Well, if we are talking about schills... they do exist, and they are everywhere.
In some of the most popular forums, there are individuals out there who work solely for the advertising firms hired by big corporations.
I have no idea about this particular case, but this is not anything new. People who are solely motivated to discredit a competitors products are called bashers. Those who promote a product are called hypesters. Its sort of like a paid fanboy.
You never really know who these people are. Some are intelligent, others are just regular joe schmoes. They usually work in groups. A single person isn't enough to sway opinion. However if you have 5 or 6 people pounding in the same "facts", making a majority of the posts... it leads people to believe this is true.
This is a small part of the whole scheme. Sometimes, advertising money ends up in the hands of reviewers of hardware. Ever look at a glowing review of a product on ziff davis, only to get the product home and find out its complete garbage.... The good review was probably not because of a good product, but rather the amount of money the manufacture threw at the reviewer.
Other times, corporations will buy out respected and well known individuals to support their product. Remember Valve &ATI in HL2? ATI cards mysteriously performed much faster than nvidia counterparts after ATI's very large investment in bundling the game with its graphics cards.
A good company will hit with advertising at all the levels. Forums are no different. This is where the enthusiasts live, and enthusiasts help drive word of mouth.
Crazy Phat
02-11-2006, 05:45
Never knew that(five words).
ATi is better. Why? because it is a Canadian company.
Crazy Phat
02-11-2006, 07:05
ATi is better. Why? because it is a Canadian company.So what. Nvidia forever(paid just kidding).
I've always been dissappointed with ATI products. One of our first graphics cards were things like the Voodoo and Nvidia's TNT2, and they were great cards for their time.. and when the 4200 Ti came out we bought that too.
I gave that 4200 Ti to my mate and bought an ATI 9800 SE. The 4200 Ti still outperforms my ATI 9800 SE, which I bought about 2 years later. What is up with that?
Anyways, that's my two-cents on ATI - they suck. :)
I gave that 4200 Ti to my mate and bought an ATI 9800 SE. The 4200 Ti still outperforms my ATI 9800 SE, which I bought about 2 years later. What is up with that?
Anyways, that's my two-cents on ATI - they suck. :)
Ummmm, the 9800SE is a budget card. You could go buy a new Geforce 6200 and it will be outperformed by a three year old Radeon 9700.
mrnaggy88 wrote:
He does reviews on both Nvidia cards, as well as ATI Cards, but any graphics guru will tell you, his site has become biased towards ATI. He consistantly writes reviews that favor ATI cards over Nvidia ones of similar/better quality.
I went to TomsHardware.com and this is what I noticed from this "biased towards ATI" site.
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphics/graphicscards/index.html
This seems to contradict this biased claim. The truth may be in the numbers and from what I see in this chart Nvidia holds the top spots on every chart. All the latest articles from this site are based on Nvidia cards. Hmmm doesnt look very biased to me. Lets remember the truth is in the numbers not a review based on ones opinion.
From eight of the last articles posted on this site dating from 5 July 2005 to 2 February 2006, a seven month period, 4 of these articles are based on Nvidia graphics cards alone.
One article is a chart based on AGP cards where ATI leads by a small margin, another article is a chart based on PCI express cards where Nvidia owns ATI on all the charts, there is one about getting more power out of old graphics cards from both Nvidia and ATI through overclocking, and the last article im gonna talk about is the only article that is specifically about ATI graphics cards is Don't Throw Out Your ATI Radeon X800 Yet.
All the benchmarks on this site for the last seven months are in no way looking biased toward ATI but they are making ATI look like crap and I read a few of the articles and I still find no evidence to back this claim. Actually if I were to know nothing about graphics cards and went to this site from the link I posted earlier I would think the opposite.
samoa_20
12-21-2008, 12:44
Hello chaps,
Just a quick message to say Merry Christmas to you all, and to ask what exactly the timeframe is for work on PSU over the festive season. I'm guessing Christmas Day and New Years Day are off-days, at least.
Naturally I can't do any work unless one of you chaps is around to publish it, so it would be good to know your movements :p
Best,
Edwin
highazz_vegeta
12-21-2008, 19:33
Doubt you'll notice me gone anyways ;) Have a great Christmas, everyone.
JDawg5000
12-22-2008, 07:54
I'm not sure about the rest of the team, but I will be on and off from Wednesday until 5th Jan :)
Merry Christmas to you guys! I will be online as usual posting news and features over the holidays...so hopefully there will be an editor around. I work both Xmas eve and Xmas day...but at night. Also, I plan on working vigorously on getting PSU v3 ready for launch.
The_Only
12-22-2008, 13:18
Merry Christmas to you too Edwin, and everyone else for that matter.
Since me and Dave are the only editors on PSU until Eric gets back, I'll let you know what my schedule is.
I won't be on Christmas Day (quite frankly, who on earth would be?), Boxing Day and the day after. I MIGHT come on Boxing Day evening, but Christmas Day and December 27 I won't even be at home.
Most people come back to work on January 5 but I expect i'll be back (albeit not quite as much) on December 29 then transition into my regular 8 hour shifts on January 2.
So basically, Wednesday is my last full day at work for this week.
I won't be around this week, but will be back online on Monday 29th.
Merry Xmas to everyone!
highazz_vegeta
12-22-2008, 18:47
What's Boxing Day? always wondered about that....
The_Only
12-23-2008, 10:00
Boxing Day is a UK (and European?) holiday on December 26. I think the name has something to do with boxing stuff up after Christmas Day, or something like that -- not really sure tough.
Anyway, typically people are off work on Boxing Day so it's like another Christmas Day over here.
highazz_vegeta
12-23-2008, 13:50
just a day off? like martin luther king jr day? or do you trade empty boxes and put them on ur heads? :o
Boxing Day is a UK (and European?) holiday on December 26. I think the name has something to do with boxing stuff up after Christmas Day, or something like that -- not really sure tough.
Anyway, typically people are off work on Boxing Day so it's like another Christmas Day over here.
Just another good excuse to hit the pub. lol
The_Only
12-30-2008, 10:37
A change of plan -- I will be resuming my usual work schedule on Friday, January 2. I've given myself exactly one week off, so I think that's fair considering I didn't take a single holiday in all of 2008.
See you all then and enjoy the rest of your Christmas for those of you who are still away.