View Full Version : Do you believe in GOD?
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 01:28
Ps3 rocks:
How would it be damaging if God is real? (which he is). It just depends on the person man, I was never taught not to drugs or cigarettes and I still don’t do them.
Su37su:
If you were a real Christian and you actually studied the Bible, you would know that you can’t believe in false gods and you have to believe in the true God/Christ inorder to go to heaven. So you’re right that you don’t have to be Christian to be accepted but you have to believe in God and you can’t believe in false gods like Buddha and Muhammad, lol.
I understand what you meant to but why did you bring up Muslims and Buddhists then...
Pez_555:
people like you shouldn’t even be allowed to speak. Look at the poll for goodness sakes 60%(87) yes 32% (47) no.
Fedos
the Bible doesn’t mention everything, it only mentions the very important things for the most part. You make a good point though
Pls read my post again I never mentioned believing in buddha and muhammad, the only on I mentioned was Jesus C hrist.
muslims believe in allah, they do not believe in "jesus christ". i dont think buddhists believe in jesus christ either.
Shrinnan
04-17-2006, 01:30
What I said IS true, according to the Bible you have ETERNAL salvation. No doubt about it. Jesus mentions this many, many, MANY, times.
I agree with you. But you didn't comment on that link and I have studied that link and I have come to a concludion that it's rubbish. Many things on that site don't make sense and some of the content offended me too (Which rarely happens).
The reason I didn't comment on it was because what I knew it was saying was false. The only thing you need to pay attention to is the Bible, don't worry what links say, just worry about what God says.
Now, unless it said something else that you wanted me to comment on.
you feel empty don't you. there's somthing missing but you don't know what. Jesus is that something, he will make you whole, complete you, please open the door to him, he is waiting.
That right there is another quality of accepting Christ as your savior, you no longer feel empty anymore. People with countless friends, much money, and job security, a family that loves them, they still feel empty at times. That, not feeling empty, along with not fearing death are just even more evidences of the truth of being a Christian.
What is the biggest enemy facing mankind today? Wouldn't all agree that it is death and the advent of death? But Christians, we don't fear death, God takes that quality of being a human away from us, because Christ died in our place. Also, someone who isn't Christian can also claim that they too don't fear death, but the closer you get to it, the more uncomfortable you'll become and the more you'll think about it, and that's fact.
Also...
Once you're saved you are ALWAYS saved no matter what happens. He won't let you be snatched away as a verse puts it. So let's say you are TRULY saved but something tragic happens and you become the worst mass murderer this planet has ever seen. You'll get punished severely (by God) but you'll still go to Heaven. Of course I would question if that person was truly saved in the first place.
So let's say what you have said is true and this person did as you described, I wonder, would they be raptured if they lived up until that point or would God make them go through the seven year tribulation as part of the punishment and still allow them into heaven?
the legends and story's of Buddhism are well known and well documented and they do strikingly resemble Christian ones. heres a link for you about how Christianity probably came from Buddhism:
www.near-death.com/experiences/origen045.html
Why do you people feel like you have to be saved all the time? Are you really that oppressed by life?
"What is the biggest enemy facing mankind today? Wouldn't all agree it is death and the advent of death?" -Fedos
You have to be kidding me...what kind of mind are you people carrying around :?: :shock: Death has been around always...people have been being born and dying since the begginging and you and I will die too; so will our children, and our relatives 1000 years from now will die as well. It's as if you are saying death is a new thing...floods and earth quakes have been snuffing out millions of people periodically all throughout history.
Naruto boy the reason you won't respond is because you have absolutly no objective reasoning faculty. All you can do is "thou shalt," sorry I don't believe people who tell me things with the same insanity as like a person who claims they saw a 100 foot giant in the forrest one day.
hoverbike
04-17-2006, 01:41
I do not believe Adam and Eve were the only ones God created. It’s very possible for him to have created other right after he created them. I know your going to say “well why doesnt the Bible mention it”, well the Bible only mentioned the important things that actually played a good role.
You are wrong on that one, someone just disproved that on another page or this one I can't remember. If God created more then Adam and Eve then that means that they weren't part of the blood line of Adam and Eve so that means they are without sin. That messes everything up so I'm sorry to say that is totaly wrong. Good try though.
and you gave me this answer for that question : *God was always there and always will be
How could you be giving that answer and at the same time you gone and question others belief to be wrong and for that they'll go to hell. And you also question Scientist for there finding to be noting more than just a buch of crap and BS *MADE UP STORY, NOW again you tell me how could you just thruw that BS answer at me right now bout GOD origin.
and Expect me or anyone to just belief that you took a very long though and research into it. YOU JUST SIMPLY OFF THE TOP YOUR HEAD thruw that BS answer at me. YOU CANT EVEN answer that question and jst MADE UP that BS Right there and at the same time you gone and bashing others belief or finding to be BS and MADE UP Ly...
ONce again use some Commen Sense...
No one understands how God was always existing but I think it has to do with the fact God made Time. God is in a different area without time or the laws our Universe has. Our brains and worldly nature can't understand it all.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 01:46
That does not disprove my theory at all hoverbike. It’s possible that God made the other people with sin, since adam and eve had sin. God is all powerful and can do whatever he wants, so why is that impossible?
actually, people are born without sin it is what they do in their lives and how their
parents raise them that decides how sinful they are.
but that just my opinion.
hoverbike
04-17-2006, 01:53
That does not disprove my theory at all hoverbike. It’s possible that God made the other people with sin, since adam and eve had sin. God is all powerful and can do whatever he wants, so why is that impossible?
Well if that's the case then God just threw away a very important thing called Choice. God isn't going to make a human who doesn't have a choice because that's forced. The bible doesn't say anything about it and it was not a sin back then to be incest. Humans today have sin right when their born because the blood line goes back to Adam and Eve. God could have done that, but he didn't. God can do anything like he could come and give me a Supercomputer if he wanted too but would he? No.
actually, people are born without sin it is what they do in their lives and how their
parents raise them that decides how sinful they are.
but that just my opinion.
Nope, the reason is there is a tiny amount of blood in the sperm from the father so they are sinful right away. You would think that though.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 01:56
That does not disprove my theory at all hoverbike. It’s possible that God made the other people with sin, since adam and eve had sin. God is all powerful and can do whatever he wants, so why is that impossible?
Well if that's the case then God just threw away a very important thing called Choice. God isn't going to make a human who doesn't have a choice because that's forced. The bible doesn't say anything about it and it was not a sin back then to be incest. Humans today have sin right when their born because the blood line goes back to Adam and Eve. God could have done that, but he didn't. God can do anything like he could come and give me a Supercomputer if he wanted too but would he? No.
Adam and Eve already ruined it for everyone. so how does it make any difference if God created them or if adam and eve created them (they are still with sin). the point is that adam and eve ruined it for everyone regardless, so god threw away choice anyways in that perspective
hoverbike
04-17-2006, 02:45
Adam and Eve already ruined it for everyone. so how does it make any difference if God created them or if adam and eve created them (they are still with sin). the point is that adam and eve ruined it for everyone regardless, so god threw away choice anyways in that perspective
It would not make sense for God to do that. It would not fit and the bible doesn't say it. Have you talked to a Pastor about this?
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 02:49
Adam and Eve already ruined it for everyone. so how does it make any difference if God created them or if adam and eve created them (they are still with sin). the point is that adam and eve ruined it for everyone regardless, so god threw away choice anyways in that perspective
It would not make sense for God to do that. It would not fit and the bible doesn't say it. Have you talked to a Pastor about this?
alot of things in the Bible don't make sense to us because we are only human. for example, why would God go through having a son so our sins could be forgiven when he could just automatically do it? we will never know, because God has a higher understanding of things.
Tribunal
04-17-2006, 02:49
Man Narutoboy, you really dig this thread don't you?
hoverbike
04-17-2006, 02:55
Adam and Eve already ruined it for everyone. so how does it make any difference if God created them or if adam and eve created them (they are still with sin). the point is that adam and eve ruined it for everyone regardless, so god threw away choice anyways in that perspective
It would not make sense for God to do that. It would not fit and the bible doesn't say it. Have you talked to a Pastor about this?
alot of things in the Bible don't make sense to us because we are only human. for example, why would God go through having a son so our sins could be forgiven when he could just automatically do it? we will never know, because God has a higher understanding of things.
Yeah, I know the reason why God didn't just automatically forgive our sins and let us all into heaven. It would be Fake then but there could be other reasons. Another question is why did God create the Universe in the first place? Is God bored because he knows everything? We will find out some day.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 02:56
Man Narutoboy, you really dig this thread don't you?
heck yea man, i love God and i love a good debate
I can't fathom how you guys can actually apply reason to this. Everything you are rationalizing is founded on assumptions that are believed to be true. It's like 2 opposed opinions using reason to debate how rain falls from the sky and both sides are founded on the assumption that it comes from some being. The only difference is one thinks it comes from the pee of a dragon named haruto and the other thinks rain is tears of a falcon named Gonzo. Both sides to begin with are based on unpenetrated assumptions it comes from a being.
In other words you are applying a technique (reason) to justify the attributes of something not directly known in the first place. This is a botchery and handicapped way of reasoning, in fact its kind of insane...something a madhouse person would rationalize...like "Yes you see the serpant snake I saw in my back yard was the devil incarnate because I had a vision of God and he told me so. So I stomped on it; then God told me the crow on my fence was possesed by demons's so I took my BB gun and shot it to death! You see God told me to do it and he loves me so I did it."- thereafter he was given an enima by the psychiatrist...
Do you realize how insane this sounds?...Boy I hope so because this is essentially the same kind of stuff you guys are trying to rationalize and debate about.
PeanutButterMunky
04-17-2006, 03:04
"Yes you see the serpant snake I saw in my back yard was the devil incarnate because I had a vision of God and he told me so. So I stomped on it; then God told me the crow on my fence was possesed by demons's so I took my BB gun and shot it to death! You see God told me to do it and he loves me so I did it."- thereafter he was given an enima by the psychiatrist...
Are you ok there?
Do you realize how insane this sounds?...Boy I hope so because this is essentially the same kind of stuff you guys are trying to rationalize and debate about.
No.
...Zen1man, how can you possibly not see that death is the biggest enemy of humankind? It is the worst offender by far. There is nothing like death for a human being to face, whether directly or indirectly. Death is the ultimate enemy. Every human being has to go through death. Just because it is universal that does not make it any less easy to accept. If you don't think death is the biggest enemy of humans then what is :shock:
Also, Jesus couldn't be a reincarnation of Buddha, because according to this link: http://www.comparativereligion.com/Buddhism.html Buddha claimed that that was his last existence:
On the other hand, if there is no self, on what basis could the Buddha have said, "This is my last birth, I will have no further existence"
Shrinnan
04-17-2006, 15:17
...Zen1man, how can you possibly not see that death is the biggest enemy of humankind? It is the worst offender by far. There is nothing like death for a human being to face, whether directly or indirectly. Death is the ultimate enemy. Every human being has to go through death. Just because it is universal that does not make it any less easy to accept. If you don't think death is the biggest enemy of humans then what is :shock:
Watch him say Public Speaking. Eh, old joke. Anyway, you're right, every person has to go through death, it's something you can't avoid.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 16:57
I can't fathom how you guys can actually apply reason to this. Everything you are rationalizing is founded on assumptions that are believed to be true. It's like 2 opposed opinions using reason to debate how rain falls from the sky and both sides are founded on the assumption that it comes from some being. The only difference is one thinks it comes from the pee of a dragon named haruto and the other thinks rain is tears of a falcon named Gonzo. Both sides to begin with are based on unpenetrated assumptions it comes from a being.
In other words you are applying a technique (reason) to justify the attributes of something not directly known in the first place. This is a botchery and handicapped way of reasoning, in fact its kind of insane...something a madhouse person would rationalize...like "Yes you see the serpant snake I saw in my back yard was the devil incarnate because I had a vision of God and he told me so. So I stomped on it; then God told me the crow on my fence was possesed by demons's so I took my BB gun and shot it to death! You see God told me to do it and he loves me so I did it."- thereafter he was given an enima by the psychiatrist...
Do you realize how insane this sounds?...Boy I hope so because this is essentially the same kind of stuff you guys are trying to rationalize and debate about.
1.Pee
2.Gonzo :o
3.Dragon named haruto
4.Madhouse person
5.God told me the crow on my fence was possesed by demons's so I took my BB gun and shot it to death
what the heck is wrong with you dude :lol:
I don't respond to you because you mock people who believe in God and you make stupid jokes about it. Do you realize how insane it is to think we just came about by chance?
Dumbo:
Of course I wasn’t there to see or experience any of this and I don’t claim to have either. About thing adam and eve thing, I read your comment way too fast. The obvious answer is that God probably created other races. I just answer your question already. I said that God was always there and always will be, this means that nobody created God. What does that have to do with me questioning other people’s beliefs? I can throw that so called “bs” answer at you because scientist use that same reasoning when talking about the big bang. In order for the big bang to have happened, there needed to be things that just existed without anything creating it.
Peanutbuttermunky:
I know God loves them regardless, im just saying thats why christians look down upon them. I still think that lifestyle will end up with them going to hell, but God still loves the people he sends there
EDIT: (off topic) who's that in your sig, it looks cool :D
First off, you still didnt answer my question about adam and eve... maybe cuz you didnt understand it or didnt reallie read it or just simplie cant find an answer for it and choose to play it off with that same answer you gave me up there. Here is my question
Dumbo:
The bible painted Adam and Eve to Be a White male and White female, and yess God choose them to enter the forbidden Garden of Eden. My question its how could this be, How could god made up his mind and choose a white race to enter the garden of eden, Does god Favor the LIght SKinded peoples more than the dark skinded peoples. Could God also be Racist in this term. Or does the writher of the bible is the one that want the world to see that Christian (white peoples) is the Superior Religion on this planet.
Second: you ask me why cant you question others belief, well it's not that you can't question it. ITs because you be bashing others belief at the same time. YOu dont justquestion others belief you bash it while you doing so. When i ask you "Whom created god and whom created the person that created god" And you still cant answer cuz it's impossible to be answer, for anyone to be answering it. SInce this question cant be answer by no one. That must of mean everything that religion are souly truely belief in must been noting more than an assumption and story. HOw could you call something a fact when you dont even know the oringin of that something. And these assumption to you, it's like fact and reality, so if that its to be for you than how come it's cant be the same for others religion. Since all of these religion stuff it's noting more than an assumption and story to teach/keep peoples to be good and have something to lived for and to look forward in life.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 17:52
dumbo:
ive answered your question three damn times now. you asked "Whom Created God and who created the person who created him?" I said nobody created him, he was always there. gosh, how many times do i have to repeat myself?
I do not believe Adam and Eve were the only ones God created. It’s very possible for him to have created other right after he created them. I know your going to say “well why doesnt the Bible mention it”, well the Bible only mentioned the important things that actually played a good role.
You are wrong on that one, someone just disproved that on another page or this one I can't remember. If God created more then Adam and Eve then that means that they weren't part of the blood line of Adam and Eve so that means they are without sin. That messes everything up so I'm sorry to say that is totaly wrong. Good try though.
and you gave me this answer for that question : *God was always there and always will be
How could you be giving that answer and at the same time you gone and question others belief to be wrong and for that they'll go to hell. And you also question Scientist for there finding to be noting more than just a buch of crap and BS *MADE UP STORY, NOW again you tell me how could you just thruw that BS answer at me right now bout GOD origin.
and Expect me or anyone to just belief that you took a very long though and research into it. YOU JUST SIMPLY OFF THE TOP YOUR HEAD thruw that BS answer at me. YOU CANT EVEN answer that question and jst MADE UP that BS Right there and at the same time you gone and bashing others belief or finding to be BS and MADE UP Ly...
ONce again use some Commen Sense...
No one understands how God was always existing but I think it has to do with the fact God made Time. God is in a different area without time or the laws our Universe has. Our brains and worldly nature can't understand it all.
You are right, no one know the answer to my question, not even god himself.
Let put it this way, let say that God it's really real. And god is the all mighty powerful being in A world without time or anything like this Universe. And let say that you get a chace to go to heaven and let say you ask of his creation and he gave you a simple answer of his origin by saying that He was created from Simplely NOTHing...
Hmm if thats to be so "God was created from noting" my question is: how could something/someone been created from entireley out of noting and IF that was to be the case, than my others question would be " HOw Could noting be noting when it had created something/someone". So this must of mean that's there was always something but never noting, and if thats to be than what it's that something and where it came from or how does it come about.
This question simplely can't never be answer by no one not even god himself.
And this question apply to the theory of the Big Bang also. There it's just no true answer to anything because there'll always be something esle behind it origin that's needed to be answer.
How could you question or bash others belief when you can't and don't even understand your own to begain with.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 18:07
You are right, no one know the question to my question, not even god himself.
Let put it this way, let say that God it's really real. And god is the all mighty powerful being in A world without time or anything like this Universe. And let say that you get a chace to go to heaven and let say you ask of his creation and he gave you a simple answer of his origin by saying that He was created from Simplely NOTHing...
Hmm if thats to be so "God was created from noting" my question is: how could something/someone been created from entireley out of noting and IF that was to be the case, than my others question would be " HOw Could noting be noting when it had created something/someone". So this must of mean that's there was always something but never noting, and if thats to be than what it's that something and where it came from or how does it come about.
This question simplely can't never be answer by no one not even god himself.
I’m starting to doubt your ability to read and comprehend what I’m saying. I’ve answered your question about four times now. Nobody created God, he was just always there. If this idea of always existing without anybody creating you is so farfetched, then why do evolutionists think that the material that created the big bang was always there? Not to mention the “stuff” that supposedly formed humans?
dumbo:
ive answered your question three damn times now. you asked "Whom Created God and who created the person who created him?" I said nobody created him, he was always there. gosh, how many times do i have to repeat myself?
How many time do i have to tell you that it's was the question about ADAM AND EVE>>>>>> NOT GOD:::::::::: ADAM AND EVE DO YOU GET IT NOW>.... IF not than i'll just giv up...
You are right, no one know the question to my question, not even god himself.
Let put it this way, let say that God it's really real. And god is the all mighty powerful being in A world without time or anything like this Universe. And let say that you get a chace to go to heaven and let say you ask of his creation and he gave you a simple answer of his origin by saying that He was created from Simplely NOTHing...
Hmm if thats to be so "God was created from noting" my question is: how could something/someone been created from entireley out of noting and IF that was to be the case, than my others question would be " HOw Could noting be noting when it had created something/someone". So this must of mean that's there was always something but never noting, and if thats to be than what it's that something and where it came from or how does it come about.
This question simplely can't never be answer by no one not even god himself.
I’m starting to doubt your ability to read and comprehend what I’m saying. I’ve answered your question about four times now. Nobody created God, he was just always there. If this idea of always existing without anybody creating you is so farfetched, then why do evolutionists think that the material that created the big bang was always there? Not to mention the “stuff” that supposedly formed humans?
This theory also apply for the big bang theory also and everything else also.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 18:15
dumbo:
ive answered your question three damn times now. you asked "Whom Created God and who created the person who created him?" I said nobody created him, he was always there. gosh, how many times do i have to repeat myself?
How many time do i have to tell you that it's was the question about ADAM AND EVE>>>>>> NOT GOD:::::::::: ADAM AND EVE DO YOU GET IT NOW>.... IF not than i'll just giv up...
i guess you forgot about ever typing that huh?
"MY question again is Whom Created God and To make it more difficult, reask that question agian, and ask Whom Created the Person that created God"
EDIT: what question about adam and eve (i probably answered that to, ha ha)
dumbo:
ive answered your question three damn times now. you asked "Whom Created God and who created the person who created him?" I said nobody created him, he was always there. gosh, how many times do i have to repeat myself?
How many time do i have to tell you that it's was the question about ADAM AND EVE>>>>>> NOT GOD:::::::::: ADAM AND EVE DO YOU GET IT NOW>.... IF not than i'll just giv up...
i guess you forgot ever typing that huh?
"MY question again is Whom Created God and To make it more difficult, reask that question agian, and ask Whom Created the Person that created God"
EDIT: what question about adam and eve (i probably answered that to, ha ha)
here is the question since you miss it soo many damn time... i guess i'll post it again...
The bible painted Adam and Eve to Be a White male and White female, and yess God choose them to enter the forbidden Garden of Eden. My question its how could this be, How could god made up his mind and choose a white race to enter the garden of eden, Does god Favor the LIght SKinded peoples more than the dark skinded peoples. Could God also be Racist in this term. Or does the writher of the bible is the one that want the world to see that Christian (white peoples) is the Superior Religion on this planet.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 18:24
here its the question since you miss it soo many damn time... i guess i'll post it again...
The bible painted Adam and Eve to Be a White male and White female, and yess God choose them to enter the forbidden Garden of Eden. My question its how could this be, How could god made up his mind and choose a white race to enter the garden of eden, Does god Favor the LIght SKinded peoples more than the dark skinded peoples. Could God also be Racist in this term. Or does the writher of the bible is the one that want the world to see that Christian (white peoples) is the Superior Religion on this planet.
You never addressed my answer to your first question, so I figured you were still talking about that. I don’t think anyone truly knows what color Adam and Eve were. Lets say they were white though, so what. Technically “race” didn’t exist since there wasn’t any others. Christianity is filled with multiple colors/races, not just “white people”.
Umm, the Bible doesn't say whether or not Adam and Eve were white, that's an assumption passed down from generation to generation. Just like all the pictures of Jesus are of him being white, when he was a Jewish.
Shrinnan
04-17-2006, 18:27
Yea, most likely Adam and Eve were of a different color, probably one that doesn't exist anymore. Like Fedos said, Jesus is painted as a white person even though that's just not true.
here its the question since you miss it soo many damn time... i guess i'll post it again...
The bible painted Adam and Eve to Be a White male and White female, and yess God choose them to enter the forbidden Garden of Eden. My question its how could this be, How could god made up his mind and choose a white race to enter the garden of eden, Does god Favor the LIght SKinded peoples more than the dark skinded peoples. Could God also be Racist in this term. Or does the writher of the bible is the one that want the world to see that Christian (white peoples) is the Superior Religion on this planet.
You never addressed my answer to your first question, so I figured you were still talking about that. I don’t think anyone truly knows what color Adam and Eve were. Lets say they were white though, so what. Technically “race” didn’t exist since there wasn’t any others. Christianity is filled with multiple colors/races, not just “white people”.
No others exist? though you mention b4 that god must of put diff kind of pplz in diff part of the planet, and how you just fliping your own word around.
ANd this question was ment for everyone not only you Narutoboy
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 18:32
No others exist? though you mention b4 that god must of put diff kind of pplz in diff part of the planet, and how you just fliping your own word around.
ANd this question was ment for everyone not only you Narutoboy
first off, that was just a theory. Just because i think God made more people, doesnt mean i think he made them different races.
so because you made it for other people means i cant respond...
Fedos and ZeroGravity,
YOU guys are right though, the bible never stated of adam and eve color.
Just that the christain is the one that painted them as white, same gone for Jesus color also.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 18:48
Fedos and ZeroGravity,
YOU guys are right though, the bible never stated of adam and eve color.
Just that the christain is the one that painted them as white, same gone for Jesus color also.
so why did you say "The bible painted Adam and Eve to Be a White male and White female"?
you need to stop assuming things. like you assumed that just because I thought God made other people, I was saying they were of a different races
A link that I read stated that the races could have come from the Tower of Babel. They said that God may have not only changed the languages of the people but also the races. It's just that the Bible didn't mention about the races because it wasn't that important of an issue.
No others exist? though you mention b4 that god must of put diff kind of pplz in diff part of the planet, and how you just fliping your own word around.
ANd this question was ment for everyone not only you Narutoboy
first off, that was just a theory. Just because i think God made more people, doesnt mean i think he made them different races.
so because you made it for other people means i cant respond...
ok since it's a theory, let me ask of your theory.
YOu said god made just one race of peoples, so that mean they should all look a like too right, and god also put them in diff part of the planet.
HOw did we end up with so many diff races and look diff from one another up to date?
Because if you think this is how is it, than the answer would be the theory of Evolution.
Remember Science and Religion dont mix, dont forget.
Fedos and ZeroGravity,
YOU guys are right though, the bible never stated of adam and eve color.
Just that the christain is the one that painted them as white, same gone for Jesus color also.
so why did you say "The bible painted Adam and Eve to Be a White male and White female"?
you need to stop assuming things. like you assumed that just because I thought God made other people, I was saying they were of a different races
i wanted to see everyone point of view...
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 18:54
ok since it's a theory, let me ask of your theory.
YOu said god made just one race of peoples, so that mean they should all look like too right, and god also put them in diff part of the planet.
HOw did we end up with so many diff races and look diff from one another up to date?
Because if you think this is how is it, than the answer would be the theory of Evolution.
Remember Science and Religion dont mix, dont forget.
I believe races were changed at the tower of babel
like fedos said..
ok since it's a theory, let me ask of your theory.
YOu said god made just one race of peoples, so that mean they should all look like too right, and god also put them in diff part of the planet.
HOw did we end up with so many diff races and look diff from one another up to date?
Because if you think this is how is it, than the answer would be the theory of Evolution.
Remember Science and Religion dont mix, dont forget.
I believe races were changed at the tower of babel
like fedos said..
And now you just change your Theory into Belief...
Christianity Belief and Scientist Theorize.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 19:01
ok since it's a theory, let me ask of your theory.
YOu said god made just one race of peoples, so that mean they should all look like too right, and god also put them in diff part of the planet.
HOw did we end up with so many diff races and look diff from one another up to date?
Because if you think this is how is it, than the answer would be the theory of Evolution.
Remember Science and Religion dont mix, dont forget.
I believe races were changed at the tower of babel
like fedos said..
And now you just change your Theory into Belief...
Christianity Belief and Scientist Theorize.
what....
my theory is that God made more people then adam and eve
my belief is that races were changed at the tower of babel.
dont get confused dumbo. nothing was changed
PeanutButterMunky
04-17-2006, 19:02
Fedos and ZeroGravity,
YOU guys are right though, the bible never stated of adam and eve color.
Just that the christain is the one that painted them as white, same gone for Jesus color also.
The bible says Jesus had bronze skin and he was a Jew. He is also homely looking and has no qualities that would classify him as "attractive". So all these pictures of him being pasty white and beautiful just aren't accurate.
A link that I read stated that the races could have come from the Tower of Babel. They said that God may have not only changed the languages of the people but also the races. It's just that the Bible didn't mention about the races because it wasn't that important of an issue.
So to say you belived that races and alnguages come about upon these storry from the bible. Interesthing indeed but than there were only one languages for person. They all sent and sperated around the world. The thing that reallie question me on this belief is races diff. How could a person change so much when they look soo alike from the begaining.
This issue would come about to question the theory of evolution.
And about the languages, We all know that languages are learned by experience of doing and seeing thing.
As a person saw something new he would be the first one to shout it out or point it out, and whatever the word that he shout it out, that word would be stuck in his mind for the thing that he saw.
He would later on gone to someone that he know and probably wanted to show that person the same thing that he just saw. So he would try to draw it or use the word that it's already stuck in his head when he shout during the sighting of that thing that he saw, And name that drawing, or when he saw that thing agian he would just shout it out with the name that's already stuck in his head.
And the others person would see it also and would remember it with the name that's already been name by the person that had seen it first.
That's is the theory of Languages begun. They just learned as they see and go.
Let say that we were to put 10 new borned on an isolated island but than we keep watch of them till they are grown up enough to suvive on their own. with no contact with other humans being. As they grow up they will need to invented their own language system inorder to communicate with eatch other. Therefore we would have a totally new language been born with out god word or help, purly thruw experience of doing and seeing thing.
And to ADD: Like if you were to discover a new species (animals, plant, others) today or tomarrow. Do you think that god its going to come to you in your sleep or dream and name that new species for you or do you think you could manage that on your own. Or its he just goin to make you think that you made up that name but than its was him that reallie made up that name but than already put that name in your head b4 you even discover that new species of whatever.
This would be one strong Belief....
this is the theory of the languages evolution...
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 19:33
dumbo, God changed peoples languages in the tower of babel.
i still want to know what you mean by me changing my theory into a belief. i didnt change a thing, we were talking about seperate things
ok since it's a theory, let me ask of your theory.
YOu said god made just one race of peoples, so that mean they should all look like too right, and god also put them in diff part of the planet.
HOw did we end up with so many diff races and look diff from one another up to date?
Because if you think this is how is it, than the answer would be the theory of Evolution.
Remember Science and Religion dont mix, dont forget.
I believe races were changed at the tower of babel
like fedos said..
And now you just change your Theory into Belief...
Christianity Belief and Scientist Theorize.
what....
my theory is that God made more people then adam and eve
my belief is that races were changed at the tower of babel.
dont get confused dumbo. nothing was changed
And here you are trying to merge Christianity and Scientist into one.
Remember when you criticize Scientist for Their theory of the earth, evolution, life, and so on. ANd now you're here stating your own theory about GOD. :roll:
Christianity Belief and Scientist Theorize
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 19:48
And here you are trying to merge Christianity and Scientist into one.
Remember when you criticize Scientist for Their theory of the earth, evolution, life, and so on. ANd now you're here stating your own theory about GOD. :roll:
Christianity Belief and Scientist Theorize
how am i mixing scientist theory with christianity belief?
do you even know the story of the tower of babel? God was angry at the people trying to reach heaven so he ended up changing everyones languages so they couldnt understand one another. no science involved...
hoverbike
04-17-2006, 19:51
You are right, no one know the answer to my question, not even god himself.
Let put it this way, let say that God it's really real. And god is the all mighty powerful being in A world without time or anything like this Universe. And let say that you get a chace to go to heaven and let say you ask of his creation and he gave you a simple answer of his origin by saying that He was created from Simplely NOTHing...
Hmm if thats to be so "God was created from noting" my question is: how could something/someone been created from entireley out of noting and IF that was to be the case, than my others question would be " HOw Could noting be noting when it had created something/someone". So this must of mean that's there was always something but never noting, and if thats to be than what it's that something and where it came from or how does it come about.
This question simplely can't never be answer by no one not even god himself.
And this question apply to the theory of the Big Bang also. There it's just no true answer to anything because there'll always be something esle behind it origin that's needed to be answer.
How could you question or bash others belief when you can't and don't even understand your own to begain with.
God knows everything. But it's impossible to figure out the origin of everything because there has to always be something else to create something. We won't figure it out here on earth, that's for sure. It does apply to the Big Bang but that means you can't ask where God came from since no one can answer both.
And here you are trying to merge Christianity and Scientist into one.
Remember when you criticize Scientist for Their theory of the earth, evolution, life, and so on. ANd now you're here stating your own theory about GOD. :roll:
Christianity Belief and Scientist Theorize
how am i mixing scientist theory with christianity belief?
do you even know the story of the tower of babel? God was angry at the people trying to reach heaven so he ended up changing everyones languages so they couldnt understand one another. no science involved...
Dude if i dont know, i wont quote it...
And if i dont need to tell you agian of how you mix it... if you dont get it didnt you jst dont get it...
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 19:59
And here you are trying to merge Christianity and Scientist into one.
Remember when you criticize Scientist for Their theory of the earth, evolution, life, and so on. ANd now you're here stating your own theory about GOD. :roll:
Christianity Belief and Scientist Theorize
how am i mixing scientist theory with christianity belief?
do you even know the story of the tower of babel? God was angry at the people trying to reach heaven so he ended up changing everyones languages so they couldnt understand one another. no science involved...
Dude if i dont know, i wont quote it...
And if i dont need to tell you agian of how you mix it... if you dont get it didnt you jst dont get it...
so are you saying I cant have theories about God. having theories about God doesnt mean im mixing scientific theories
Shrinnan
04-17-2006, 20:04
can't ask where God came from
We already know the answer to this. "I am the beginning and the end." That phrase, among others, means that God was never created, He's always been there. The Alpha and the Omega.
hoverbike
04-17-2006, 20:05
can't ask where God came from
We already know the answer to this. "I am the beginning and the end." That phrase, among others, means that God was never created, He's always been there. The Alpha and the Omega.
Yes, we know that but to a non-believer that sounds like weirdness or it doesn't make sense to them.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 20:08
can't ask where God came from
We already know the answer to this. "I am the beginning and the end." That phrase, among others, means that God was never created, He's always been there. The Alpha and the Omega.
Yes, we know that but to a non-believer that sounds like weirdness or it doesn't make sense to them.
well evolutionist believe that the material that created the big bang was there and whatever formed us was always there, so why is that so weird to them?
hoverbike
04-17-2006, 20:09
well evolutionist believe that the material that created the big bang was there and whatever formed us was always there, so why is that so weird to them?
I'm talking about the bible verse.
You are right, no one know the answer to my question, not even god himself.
Let put it this way, let say that God it's really real. And god is the all mighty powerful being in A world without time or anything like this Universe. And let say that you get a chace to go to heaven and let say you ask of his creation and he gave you a simple answer of his origin by saying that He was created from Simplely NOTHing...
Hmm if thats to be so "God was created from noting" my question is: how could something/someone been created from entireley out of noting and IF that was to be the case, than my others question would be " HOw Could noting be noting when it had created something/someone". So this must of mean that's there was always something but never noting, and if thats to be than what it's that something and where it came from or how does it come about.
This question simplely can't never be answer by no one not even god himself.
And this question apply to the theory of the Big Bang also. There it's just no true answer to anything because there'll always be something esle behind it origin that's needed to be answer.
How could you question or bash others belief when you can't and don't even understand your own to begain with.
God knows everything. But it's impossible to figure out the origin of everything because there has to always be something else to create something. We won't figure it out here on earth, that's for sure. It does apply to the Big Bang but that means you can't ask where God came from since no one can answer both.
My point to all of these is that, how could you asume such thing like everyone else is going to hell if they dosn't read the bible or belief in god, and at the same time you dont even know where does god came from and so on. How would you know for sure if the bible is even the right way of teaching and how would you know for sure if there is a no way to avoid hell. How would you know for sure if there is even a heaven up there. How would you know for sure if god are even looking upon us. how would know forsure if this is the only planet that god made. HOw would you know for sure if god reallie created us for the better good of whatever and not just for the fun of it. *like a video games that we play.
The thing is that you'll never be sure, than why are you only listening to one religion and only from one book. What make you think that what you had learned is noting more than a man made fairy tale to teach their children of being good will always get them good in life.
last note:
*Since you don't know where he came from, or how he was made/create than how would you know for sure if your belief it's reallie something real and reallie noting more than just rubbish and NOTHING to life but to lieved and dy with noting aftherward to look forward to.
narutoboy
04-17-2006, 20:14
well evolutionist believe that the material that created the big bang was there and whatever formed us was always there, so why is that so weird to them?
I'm talking about the bible verse.
ummm yea I realize that :roll:
I dont see how that matters if your talking about the Bible verse or not. why cant people believe that bible verse, if they can believe the stuff I said about evolution?
hoverbike
04-17-2006, 20:24
My point to all of these is that, how could you asume such thing like everyone else is going to hell if they dosn't read the bible or belief in god, and at the same time you dont even know where does god came from and so on. How would you know for sure if the bible is even the right way of teaching and how would you know for sure if there is a no way to avoid hell. How would you know for sure if there is even a heaven up there. How would you know for sure if god are even looking upon us. how would know forsure if this is the only planet that god made. HOw would you know for sure if god reallie created us for the better good of whatever and not just for the fun of it. *like a video games that we play.
The thing is that you'll never be sure, than why are you only listening to one religion and only from one book. What make you think that what you had learned is noting more than a man made fairy tale to teach their children of being good will always get them good in life.
last note:
*Since you don't know where he came from, or how he was made/create than how would you know for sure if your belief it's reallie something real and reallie noting more than just rubbish and NOTHING to life but to lieved and dy with noting aftherward to look forward to.
Two words: The Bible. Now if you don't believe the bible then that's where we stop. The bible is real and true since I can't find any mistakes or errors in it and it seems to be right all the time. There is a certain view on that though. The bible said that the earth was a sphere long before we found out it was a sphere.
can't ask where God came from
We already know the answer to this. "I am the beginning and the end." That phrase, among others, means that God was never created, He's always been there. The Alpha and the Omega.
So you're stating that "God was never created but he's always been there"
Ok let me ask you this then
Since you put it that way
If god was to never been created but than at the same time he is always there... hmm
this sound like he was never existed in the first place this sound like he was noting more than just a belief. Belief that's made up to keep humanity alived, a belief that's made for a person to have a reason to lieved on. A belief that's made up to teach the right and wrong that a person should do and shouldn't do.
because this is what it sould like.
let me speak of this "Begining or ending" subject bout a lil.
In a book or movies there is a binining of the story and the end of the story.
Unlike story and movies. life dosen't have begining and end, life is always moving forward and dosn't matter the situation it will never end even if the everything in this universe its distory completeley gone. Afther all of these distrustion there will always be something new and something happening constantly.
It's like we are in Circle of everything, where everything it's moving one direction and never stop, where life itself keep on moving forward spinding in circle. Everytime life or watever is moving foward it will distroy and erease the original data or history of the past (because circle overlap eatch other when it keep on moving with the cycle) that's left infront of watever it's moving forward. SO to speak of the past or history it's not exactly behind us, it's infront of us and waiting to be erease and distroy as life or watever moving torward it.
this make time travel impossible...
this is my theory...
You are right, no one know the answer to my question, not even god himself.
Let put it this way, let say that God it's really real. And god is the all mighty powerful being in A world without time or anything like this Universe. And let say that you get a chace to go to heaven and let say you ask of his creation and he gave you a simple answer of his origin by saying that He was created from Simplely NOTHing...
Hmm if thats to be so "God was created from noting" my question is: how could something/someone been created from entireley out of noting and IF that was to be the case, than my others question would be " HOw Could noting be noting when it had created something/someone". So this must of mean that's there was always something but never noting, and if thats to be than what it's that something and where it came from or how does it come about.
This question simplely can't never be answer by no one not even god himself.
And this question apply to the theory of the Big Bang also. There it's just no true answer to anything because there'll always be something esle behind it origin that's needed to be answer.
How could you question or bash others belief when you can't and don't even understand your own to begain with.
God knows everything. But it's impossible to figure out the origin of everything because there has to always be something else to create something. We won't figure it out here on earth, that's for sure. It does apply to the Big Bang but that means you can't ask where God came from since no one can answer both.
My point to all of these is that, how could you asume such thing like everyone else is going to hell if they dosn't read the bible or belief in god, and at the same time you dont even know where does god came from and so on. How would you know for sure if the bible is even the right way of teaching and how would you know for sure if there is a no way to avoid hell. How would you know for sure if there is even a heaven up there. How would you know for sure if god are even looking upon us. how would know forsure if this is the only planet that god made. HOw would you know for sure if god reallie created us for the better good of whatever and not just for the fun of it. *like a video games that we play.
The thing is that you'll never be sure, than why are you only listening to one religion and only from one book. What make you think that what you had learned is noting more than a man made fairy tale to teach their children of being good will always get them good in life.
last note:
*Since you don't know where he came from, or how he was made/create than how would you know for sure if your belief it's reallie something real and reallie noting more than just rubbish and NOTHING to life but to lieved and dy with noting aftherward to look forward to.
Well for me, the reason I believe is because what I have seen from others and experienced for myself in my own life. I grew up with Christian parents, and the life that they are capable of living was just too powerful and such a testimony to the truth of Christianity that it just couldn't be sheer will power, because if you try for yourself to live sin free of your own free will, you will give up on account of how difficult it is.
I've tried it so I know that to be true. Anybody doubting the nature of sin should try it. Dumbo, if you have anything in your life that is a vice (such as drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, or anything else for that matter) just try to abstain from it indefinitely and see how far you'll go and come back and give us your report. You won't go far, trust me. The thing is, you can't live the Christian life apart from accpeting Christ as your savior. The demands are just too excruciating.
Also, another thing missing in a lot of people's lives is having a saint in their lives, someone who has truly given their lives to Jesus. If everybody on earth had at least one self professing and true Christian in their lives then the world would be a better place, because you'd get to see the life lived out for yourself. You'd start to ask questions like, "Why is this person so different from everyone else I know?' 'Why doesn't he ever talk about sex with the rest of us?' Why doesn't he want to go out drinking with me and my buddies?' You know, things like that.
Of course, you could also be blinded to the truth, even if it is around you. As before I first got saved, there was a co worker that I worked with who claimed to be Christian but I just didn't see it in him. But after I accepted the Lord (the next day at work even) I could see it. Now, that could have been the devil working that way in my life (because I could see it in my parents), or it could have been something else, I just don't know. But I do know that I could see it after I got saved.
So yeah, that's why I believe. And I'm sure if you had contact with someone who was really born again you'd be able to see it too.
Mael Duin
04-17-2006, 20:46
Dumbo, so you are saying that after death you will be reborn, but could be that you are something else than human, like a dog or some bird? And your memories has been erased. Endless cycle on birth, life, death and rebirth. This is my belife also. This goes side by side with Big Bang etc. too. Well, with my theories of course. My theory about Big Bang and the universe is that that Big Bang -> born of the universe -> universe crashes (too many black holes, universe spreads too much etc.) -> Big Bang happens etc. Endless cycle.
The thing is, you can't live the Christian life apart from accpeting Christ as your savior. The demands are just too excruciating.
Wait what, if I understand this, you mean that you can't live good life (no murdering, no raping, no stealing, nice to everyone etc.) if you don't believe in Christ or you mean that you can't live (going to church, celebrating christmas etc) without believing in Christ? Then you are wrong on both. I'm living example. I go to church (only if there is wedding and I just have to go there) and I celebrate christmas (but not because it's Christs birthday, because it's the time when my family are giving gifts, eating good food, having fun etc.). I still don't believe higher lifeforms or some magic fairies.
My point to all of these is that, how could you asume such thing like everyone else is going to hell if they dosn't read the bible or belief in god, and at the same time you dont even know where does god came from and so on. How would you know for sure if the bible is even the right way of teaching and how would you know for sure if there is a no way to avoid hell. How would you know for sure if there is even a heaven up there. How would you know for sure if god are even looking upon us. how would know forsure if this is the only planet that god made. HOw would you know for sure if god reallie created us for the better good of whatever and not just for the fun of it. *like a video games that we play.
The thing is that you'll never be sure, than why are you only listening to one religion and only from one book. What make you think that what you had learned is noting more than a man made fairy tale to teach their children of being good will always get them good in life.
last note:
*Since you don't know where he came from, or how he was made/create than how would you know for sure if your belief it's reallie something real and reallie noting more than just rubbish and NOTHING to life but to lieved and dy with noting aftherward to look forward to.
Two words: The Bible. Now if you don't believe the bible then that's where we stop. The bible is real and true since I can't find any mistakes or errors in it and it seems to be right all the time. There is a certain view on that though. The bible said that the earth was a sphere long before we found out it was a sphere.
*you're a very close minded person...
I though the earth was round... anywayz can you explain during comlumbus time. That time peoeples around the world still think that the world was flat.... The bible is just keepin up with history and discovery so they have to rewrite bible inorder to fix in with reality.
And it wasnt the bible that state that the world was round way b4 comlumbus, is was Michelangelo drawing of the sphear/round earth and attemted to show and tell everyone of his theory of the world being sphere/round but everyone rejected his theory and saying it's wrong and full of BS...
no one discover that the world was round from the bible,,, the bible is the one that have to rewriten itslf inorder to keep up with new discovery of new finding about the planet.
Dumbo, so you are saying that after death you will be reborn, but could be that you are something else than human, like a dog or some bird? And your memories has been erased. Endless cycle on birth, life, death and rebirth. This is my belife also. This goes side by side with Big Bang etc. too. Well, with my theories of course. My theory about Big Bang and the universe is that that Big Bang -> born of the universe -> universe crashes (too many black holes, universe spreads too much etc.) -> Big Bang happens etc. Endless cycle.
The thing is, you can't live the Christian life apart from accpeting Christ as your savior. The demands are just too excruciating.
Wait what, if I understand this, you mean that you can't live good life (no murdering, no raping, no stealing, nice to everyone etc.) if you don't believe in Christ or you mean that you can't live (going to church, celebrating christmas etc) without believing in Christ? Then you are wrong on both. I'm living example. I go to church (only if there is wedding and I just have to go there) and I celebrate christmas (but not because it's Christs birthday, because it's the time when my family are giving gifts, eating good food, having fun etc.). I still don't believe higher lifeforms or some magic fairies.
exactually i belief in that half way... about being reborn... but than i also belief that we might just dy and never again exist or reborn or anything like that... SO im like belived in god/science half, half.
hoverbike
04-17-2006, 21:29
*you're a very close minded person...
I though the earth was round... anywayz can you explan during comlumbus time. That time peoeples around the world still think that the world was flat.... The bible is just keepin up with history and discovery so they have to rewrite bible inorder to fix in with reality.
And it wasnt the bible that state that the world was round way b4 comlumbus, is was Michelangelo drawing of the sphear/round earth and attemted to show and tell everyone of his theory of the world being sphere/round but everyone rejected his theory and saying it's wrong and full of BS...
no one discover that the world was round from the bible,,, the bible is the one that have to rewriten itslf inorder to keep up with new discovery of new finding about the planet.
The bible was not re-written (At least not the NKJV) to "update" itself. You just made that statement up from nowhere. You are mainly talking about flase bibles that are out there but the bible was not updated.
*you're a very close minded person...
I though the earth was round... anywayz can you explan during comlumbus time. That time peoeples around the world still think that the world was flat.... The bible is just keepin up with history and discovery so they have to rewrite bible inorder to fix in with reality.
And it wasnt the bible that state that the world was round way b4 comlumbus, is was Michelangelo drawing of the sphear/round earth and attemted to show and tell everyone of his theory of the world being sphere/round but everyone rejected his theory and saying it's wrong and full of BS...
no one discover that the world was round from the bible,,, the bible is the one that have to rewriten itslf inorder to keep up with new discovery of new finding about the planet.
The bible was not re-written (At least not the NKJV) to "update" itself. You just made that statement up from nowhere. You are mainly talking about flase bibles that are out there but the bible was not updated.
So you saying the bible had been the same since it first publish...
than peoples in bible world probably still think the world is flat...
PeanutButterMunky
04-17-2006, 22:45
than peoples in bible world probably still think the world is flat...
That doesn't even pertain to anything.
So you saying the bible had been the same since it first publish...
Yes, that's right.
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 00:09
*you're a very close minded person...
I though the earth was round... anywayz can you explan during comlumbus time. That time peoeples around the world still think that the world was flat.... The bible is just keepin up with history and discovery so they have to rewrite bible inorder to fix in with reality.
And it wasnt the bible that state that the world was round way b4 comlumbus, is was Michelangelo drawing of the sphear/round earth and attemted to show and tell everyone of his theory of the world being sphere/round but everyone rejected his theory and saying it's wrong and full of BS...
no one discover that the world was round from the bible,,, the bible is the one that have to rewriten itslf inorder to keep up with new discovery of new finding about the planet.
The bible was not re-written (At least not the NKJV) to "update" itself. You just made that statement up from nowhere. You are mainly talking about flase bibles that are out there but the bible was not updated.
So you saying the bible had been the same since it first publish...
than peoples in bible world probably still think the world is flat...
changing the Bible is a very vey very bad sin, thats like an auto hell sentence right there :P
Before arguing with believers at least crack open a Bible...
The thing is, you can't live the Christian life apart from accpeting Christ as your savior. The demands are just too excruciating.
Wait what, if I understand this, you mean that you can't live good life (no murdering, no raping, no stealing, nice to everyone etc.) if you don't believe in Christ or you mean that you can't live (going to church, celebrating christmas etc) without believing in Christ? Then you are wrong on both. I'm living example. I go to church (only if there is wedding and I just have to go there) and I celebrate christmas (but not because it's Christs birthday, because it's the time when my family are giving gifts, eating good food, having fun etc.). I still don't believe higher lifeforms or some magic fairies.
Let me ask you a few questions. When was the last time you lied to someone? When was the last time you looked on a woman in a manner that bespeaks of lust? When was the last time you even expressed dirty thoughts concerning a woman with your buddies? When was the last time you got drunk? If you smoke, when was the last time?
Now, you may be able to get away with saying that you don't smoke or drink. But you have lied to someone and you have looked on a woman in a manner that bespeaks of lust. It's just a matter of when was the last time. I can honestly say that the last time I knowingly lied to someone was way back in 2002, and that the only times I think of women are in the context of marriage.
Now, it didn't used to be that way. But I prayed a simple prayer in the summer of 2002, (August 1 to be exact), and ever since that day my life has been changed. Being a good person in your own eyes is not good enough. You have to live like God wants to enable you to live, and that's an everyday every circumstance kind of thing.
hoverbike
04-18-2006, 02:51
Now, it didn't used to be that way. But I prayed a simple prayer in the summer of 2002, (August 1 to be exact)
August 1, 2002 is when you were saved. Look here:
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002
Notice how August has only 2 events that happened that year? The rest of the months have nearly every day listed with an event. Weird....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_2002#August_4.2C_2002
Here are the events right here.
hoverbike
04-18-2006, 03:17
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_2002#August_4.2C_2002
Here are the events right here.
I found that already. Someone forgot to put those on the main page.
Mael Duin
04-18-2006, 06:12
Let me ask you a few questions. When was the last time you lied to someone? When was the last time you looked on a woman in a manner that bespeaks of lust? When was the last time you even expressed dirty thoughts concerning a woman with your buddies? When was the last time you got drunk? If you smoke, when was the last time?
I think you just turned every monk in Tibet into christianity. And yes, I have sinned too. Sorry but I don't believe anyone (and I really mean it, anyone) who says "I has never sinned" and (s)he is over 18 years old. Oh yeah, lie can't be just bad thing. There are good lies too. So do I sin if I make this kind of lie?
Now, it didn't used to be that way. But I prayed a simple prayer in the summer of 2002, (August 1 to be exact), and ever since that day my life has been changed. Being a good person in your own eyes is not good enough.
Seems like it's easier for you to believe, but it isn't for me. I have almost died (doctors said it was a miracle that I was alive, let alone that my spleen was the only one which got injured), I have almost killed (about 4 years old boy and his parents) but still nothing has been blindly made me to believe Christ or anything just because I did something very, very horrible. It's like going to your moms arms when you did something bad and feel horrible. Some people need someone to hold you, in this case God. No, I'm not saying that it's you Fedos so don't get me wrong on this one. I just don't belong on those people and I already dumped my faith. I know that no-one is watching me, I'm "alone" and I will make it, survive here without anyone elses powers or watch. I don't need God to enjoy my life and to be as good human as I can.
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 06:13
Why are you trying to be "good"?
Mael Duin
04-18-2006, 06:22
Why are you trying to be "good"?
Ah, so you need a reason for it. Counter-question. Would you even care about other people if there was no God?
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 06:26
Would you even care about other people if there was no God?
What do you mean by "care"?
Mael Duin
04-18-2006, 06:50
Would you even care about other people if there was no God?
What do you mean by "care"?
If you see carcrash and there is no God, you would just walk and do nothing? Because you can't have your reward (get points from God, get to the Heaven)? This is what I meant by your question.
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 06:53
(get points from God, get to the Heaven)?
Get points from God? What are you talking about?
Mael Duin
04-18-2006, 07:02
(get points from God, get to the Heaven)?
Get points from God? What are you talking about?
Maybe you shouldn't post right away and just think about it? :p
Okay, I try once more. I don't see some people (who believe in God) trying to be good at all if there was no God. No reason at all to do it, no Heaven, no Hell, nothing provokes you to do good thinks. No punishments, no rewards, nothing. To me, religion is like...law. It keeps people in order and doing the right thinks. Without it, many people would have gone nuts and wouldn't care a crap about others. "So what, it's life, weak dies and strong survives".
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 07:11
Before you argue points about Christianity, maybe you should try learning about it first, since what you're saying isn't what Christianity is about.
Mael Duin
04-18-2006, 07:22
Before you argue points about Christianity, maybe you should try learning about it first, since what you're saying isn't what Christianity is about.
Oh I did learn alot of thinks. After all I was born into family where everyone went to church every sunday etc. I'm tired to hear "you don't understand", if it seems to be like that that I'm off the road, then please do tell me what Christianity is about. No one ever answers when I ask this. But for the questions what we asked from each other.
Then why do I do good thinks? There is phrase, I don't know how it goes in english (in finnish it is "anna hyvän kiertää") but I try...Let the good continue onward. You do good thinks, others will remember it and do the good thinks to others, which eventually comes to you again.
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 07:29
Going to Church doesn't make you a Christian. If you want to know what it's all about, read "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis (the same author who wrote the Chronicles of Narnia books). He sums up a lot in plain English.
And the reason someone can't answer you in a few words is because it is a very complex thing.
Mael Duin
04-18-2006, 07:34
Going to Church doesn't make you a Christian. If you want to know what it's all about, read "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis (the same author who wrote the Chronicles of Narnia books). He sums up a lot in plain English.
Hah, if I even can start Narnia! I have that book and haven't touch it yet, it looks so big and scary with full of words I don't understand x) But I could try, of course.
I'm gonna stop here before I get over the edge and regret what have I done. Peace :o
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 07:36
Well, it's all good. It's a very personal thing, so it's sad to see things turn into personal attacks, but that is the nature of these kinds of discussions. I hope you find what you are looking for. Peace and God bless.
P.S. The book is better than the movie.
...Zen1man, how can you possibly not see that death is the biggest enemy of humankind? It is the worst offender by far. There is nothing like death for a human being to face, whether directly or indirectly. Death is the ultimate enemy. Every human being has to go through death. Just because it is universal that does not make it any less easy to accept. If you don't think death is the biggest enemy of humans then what is :shock:
Also, Jesus couldn't be a reincarnation of Buddha, because according to this link: http://www.comparativereligion.com/Buddhism.html Buddha claimed that that was his last existence:
On the other hand, if there is no self, on what basis could the Buddha have said, "This is my last birth, I will have no further existence"
Fedos are you 10 years old by chance? So what you are saying is we have to kill death :?: thats an oxymoron. You treat it as a dreadful enemy, yet don't you have to die to get into heaven, the goal of Christianity?
And I never said The Buddha was a reincarnated Christ, not at all. Only that Buddhist ideas and civilization influenced Ancient Greece and the middleast and that Christianity is simply a profound modification of Buddhism that was mutated in the process of cultural and mythological transmission.
by: Naruto boy- "so why did you say "The bible painted Adam and Eve to Be a White male and White female"?
you need to stop assuming things. like you assumed that just because I thought God made other people, I was saying they were of a different races"
:arrow: ZEN: And you should look at your own assumptions about Adam's and Eve's existence in the first place.
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 08:31
the goal of Christianity?
No that isn't the goal of Christianity.
Only that Buddhist ideas and civilization influenced Ancient Greece and the middleast and that Christianity is simply a profound modification of Buddhism that was mutated in the process of cultural and mythological transmission.
Where did you come up with that?
the goal of Christianity?
No that isn't the goal of Christianity.
Only that Buddhist ideas and civilization influenced Ancient Greece and the middleast and that Christianity is simply a profound modification of Buddhism that was mutated in the process of cultural and mythological transmission.
Where did you come up with that?
Uuuh, the post two pages back...Fedos do you honestly believe that Christians are the only moral people in the world?
All I'm trying to communicate to you and anyone else is that there is a clear difference between the life that Jesus and God want to enable you to live and being what humans in sin would consider 'moral', or man's concept of what it means to be moral.
Someone who never accepted Christ as their savior but still think they're a good person would consider treating people right morally correct. They would consider not lying morally correct. They would consider not stealing morally correct. Some people who consider themselves morally upright but who haven't accepted Christ may or may not consider sex outside of marriage morally correct.
But wait...haven't they lied before? Of course. That makes them a liar. Haven't they stolen something before? Most likely. That makes them a theif. Haven't they treated someone wrong before? Of course. That means they've broken the second commandment that Jesus left us, love your neighbor as yourself.
But what about something as insignificant as smoking cigarettes, surely there's nothing wrong with that, right? I mean, it's not like you're hurting anyone, right? Wrong. You're slowly committing suicide by smoking.
The thing is, you have to be forgiven. Once you're forgiven, God no longer considers you a liar, even when you have lied before, because God chooses to forget your past transgressions and never brings them up again. Once you are forgiven, you are no longer considered a thief. Once you are forgiven, your adultery is no longer remembered or bought up at all. That is what Chrisitianity is about, starting over, living anew.
And don't get me wrong Mael Duin when I say I don't sin, because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. But when I say I don't sin, I mean Christians don't sin with their actions, or by breaking the Ten Commandments. It's the small sins that Christians sometimes commit, like being lazy, not reading the Bible (because the Bible says study to show thyself approved), things like that. And God is so holy that even if you begin to say, dwell on sinful matters he can sometimes rebuke you right then and there and let you know that that's not appropriate. I'm speaking from experience.
In terms of there being other moral people out there, I'm aware of the kind of morality that exists in other religions that claim to be the way, because I've been to forums that focus on those religions and read for myself conversion stories and I've compared it to my own and the life that they are able to lead as compared to my own and those that I know to be Christians is far different than the one I'm able to lead.
And death IS man's ultimate enemy, whether you want to agree with me or not. Let me ask you this, wouldn't you rather have you and those you love live forever and not have to worry or even think about what it's like to lose someone close to you? Doesn't it hurt like nothing you've ever experienced to lose someone close to you? How can you not consider something like that an enemy of mankind? Just because it's natural that doesn't mean it should be considered even neutral (ie neither good nor bad), and of course nothing like a friend. I'm sure you could start a nationwide poll and list as many enemies to mankind as you think there are and put death in there and most would pick death as the biggest enemy, wouldn't you agree?
Also, besides these, you still didn't answer my other question, if it's not death then what is it, the biggest enemy of mankind? Also, please don't say that it's religious conflict, because if there was no death there wouldn't be any need for religious institutions in the first place. The plain and simple matter is, Jesus came to abolish death, which is why people who become Christian stop fearing it. Death is the last enemy of man to be destroyed. Also, like I said before, a non Christian can claim that they don't fear death, but the closer they get to it the more uncomfortable and the more apprehensive they will become, and that's fact.
EDIT: Zen1man is talking about this link, Peanutbuttermunky: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen045.html
Shrinnan
04-18-2006, 16:54
Well, it's all good. It's a very personal thing, so it's sad to see things turn into personal attacks, but that is the nature of these kinds of discussions. I hope you find what you are looking for. Peace and God bless.
P.S. The book is better than the movie.
Yea, but the movie is still great. I'm still finishing up the CoN series and next I'll probably move on to "Mere Christianity." CS Lewis is my favorite author just because I grew up with the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe and that has become my favorite book. Anyway, at least the movie didn't get Hollywoodtized to the point that it wouldn't have its Christian elements in the movie anymore.
AlexPallas
04-18-2006, 17:22
i think Mael Duin makes a good point, unless i'm misinterpreting it. people who are kind and don't believe in god are just being themselves with no alterior motive. however, cristianity teaches to 'love thy neighbor' and therefore it is more of an obligation, et cetera. so that aspect your kindness is dictated and not willing.
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 18:01
Fedos are you 10 years old by chance? So what you are saying is we have to kill death :?: thats an oxymoron. You treat it as a dreadful enemy, yet don't you have to die to get into heaven, the goal of Christianity?
And I never said The Buddha was a reincarnated Christ, not at all. Only that Buddhist ideas and civilization influenced Ancient Greece and the middleast and that Christianity is simply a profound modification of Buddhism that was mutated in the process of cultural and mythological transmission.
by: Naruto boy- "so why did you say "The bible painted Adam and Eve to Be a White male and White female"?
you need to stop assuming things. like you assumed that just because I thought God made other people, I was saying they were of a different races"
:arrow: ZEN: And you should look at your own assumptions about Adam's and Eve's existence in the first place.
thats where you're wrong, you do not have to die to get to heaven. if your still alive when God returns, he will be taking people to heaven. you would know that if you actually read a little of the Bible (its quite obvious that you haven't)
26 pages of non stop arguing, lol
EDIT: why cant you guys get this through your heads. It doesn't matter if your a good person, all that gets thrown out the window if you don't believe in God/Jesus.
PeanutButterMunky and NatorutoBoy, so you two agreed with Hoverbike saying that the bible is the first to discover that the earth is round... :lol:
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 18:04
PeanutButterMunky and NatorutoBoy, so you two agreed with Hoverbike saying that the bible is the first to discover that the earth is round... :lol:
you believe a history book that tells you christopher colombus was the first one to discover it was round dont you?
EDIT: im not really sure what i believe about that. i really dont care....
Argetlam
04-18-2006, 19:10
i reckon the bible is a fictional story gone furthur. and thats that 8)
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 19:13
i reckon the bible is a fictional story gone furthur. and thats that 8)
"a fictional story gone further". ummm translation please? :?
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 19:16
PeanutButterMunky and NatorutoBoy, so you two agreed with Hoverbike saying that the bible is the first to discover that the earth is round...
That is a retrogressive theory (the earth being flat) that has nothing to do with anything here. Don't even know why you're trying to bring that up as a point. I haven't even mentioned the earth.
so that aspect your kindness is dictated and not willing
Of course it's willing. You can't do anything without your will to do so. That doesn't make sense.
Would you even care about other people if there was no God?
What do you mean by "care"?
If you see carcrash and there is no God, you would just walk and do nothing? Because you can't have your reward (get points from God, get to the Heaven)? This is what I meant by your question.
I agreed with Mael Duin on this...
Christianity only doing good and being good in return of his/her expectation of receiving a ticket to enter Heaven Gate and afraid to be sent to hell...
(thank to Mael Duin) Now I could see the diff between christian and just a goody person whom belief in doing good deed but dosnt belived there's a god or expecting to receiving a ticket to heaven. These peoples are doing good deed without expecting anything in reture, but religion such as christianity are doing good deed and such, are expecting somthing in return. Expecting that god will see thire good deed and put them down on his heaven list.
It's kind of like this:
A Christian person saw a person in need of help, He would probably be thinking of what would god want him to do in this situation, help the poor dude or just walk away. This person would also question his belief b4 he could process in doing good. The person would also be expecting that god is noticing him on this Good deed, and put it into a god good deed record.
Just a good person without belief: He/she feel it in his heart of what is right or wrong, and when he saw a person in need of help he would help that person without questioning anything or thinking of such way that he'll/she'll get something in return of doing this good deed, because he's/she's just simplely doing it out of his/her kind heart. His/Her goodness is simplely from kindness of his/her heart and not from reading a bible, that telling him/her to do good deed and belief in god or else he/she will go to hell and wont get to enter heaven gate.
It's kind of like "selfless good deed and selfishness good deed".
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 19:29
(get points from God, get to the Heaven)?
Get points from God? What are you talking about?
Maybe you shouldn't post right away and just think about it? :p
Okay, I try once more. I don't see some people (who believe in God) trying to be good at all if there was no God. No reason at all to do it, no Heaven, no Hell, nothing provokes you to do good thinks. No punishments, no rewards, nothing. To me, religion is like...law. It keeps people in order and doing the right thinks. Without it, many people would have gone nuts and wouldn't care a crap about others. "So what, it's life, weak dies and strong survives".
I think your forgetting laws set by our goverment and society itself that keep us in check. How can you "see" that happening if it hasnt? (Ms. Cleo perhaps).
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 19:30
Christianity only doing good and being good in return of his/her expectation of receiving a ticket to enter Heaven Gate and afraid to be sent to hell...
And this is because you don't understand Christianity. That is not the point of goodness or badness.
Expecting that god will see thire good deed and put them down on his heaven list.
"Good deeds" won't get you into Heaven.
If you want to argue about Christianity, you must acutally study about it. And by that I mean the bible. Also, there are things you can observe from outside of Christianity and many more things you won't understand at all until you have walked at least somewhat in the Christian path.
The points you're bringing up aren't the basis or even the goals of Christianity.
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 19:33
dumbo:
Nobody does a good deed with out the expectation of some kind of a reward. If they aren’t getting a reward from someone else, they’re getting it from within themselves. Who the hell are you to say Christians only do good things just to go to heaven? If a Christian only does good things to be accepted into heaven, then that person has not yet fully accepted God/Jesus, that is fake love and God will recognize this. The Bible teaches us to be good and caring to others.
EDIT: i notice how when someone either proves you wrong or answers you, you totally ignore it
All I'm trying to communicate to you and anyone else is that there is a clear difference between the life that Jesus and God want to enable you to live and being what humans in sin would consider 'moral', or man's concept of what it means to be moral.
Someone who never accepted Christ as their savior but still think they're a good person would consider treating people right morally correct. They would consider not lying morally correct. They would consider not stealing morally correct. Some people who consider themselves morally upright but who haven't accepted Christ may or may not consider sex outside of marriage morally correct.
But wait...haven't they lied before? Of course. That makes them a liar. Haven't they stolen something before? Most likely. That makes them a theif. Haven't they treated someone wrong before? Of course. That means they've broken the second commandment that Jesus left us, love your neighbor as yourself.
But what about something as insignificant as smoking cigarettes, surely there's nothing wrong with that, right? I mean, it's not like you're hurting anyone, right? Wrong. You're slowly committing suicide by smoking.
The thing is, you have to be forgiven. Once you're forgiven, God no longer considers you a liar, even when you have lied before, because God chooses to forget your past transgressions and never brings them up again. Once you are forgiven, you are no longer considered a thief. Once you are forgiven, your adultery is no longer remembered or bought up at all. That is what Chrisitianity is about, starting over, living anew.
And don't get me wrong Mael Duin when I say I don't sin, because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. But when I say I don't sin, I mean Christians don't sin with their actions, or by breaking the Ten Commandments. It's the small sins that Christians sometimes commit, like being lazy, not reading the Bible (because the Bible says study to show thyself approved), things like that. And God is so holy that even if you begin to say, dwell on sinful matters he can sometimes rebuke you right then and there and let you know that that's not appropriate. I'm speaking from experience.
In terms of there being other moral people out there, I'm aware of the kind of morality that exists in other religions that claim to be the way, because I've been to forums that focus on those religions and read for myself conversion stories and I've compared it to my own and the life that they are able to lead as compared to my own and those that I know to be Christians is far different than the one I'm able to lead.
And death IS man's ultimate enemy, whether you want to agree with me or not. Let me ask you this, wouldn't you rather have you and those you love live forever and not have to worry or even think about what it's like to lose someone close to you? Doesn't it hurt like nothing you've ever experienced to lose someone close to you? How can you not consider something like that an enemy of mankind? Just because it's natural that doesn't mean it should be considered even neutral (ie neither good nor bad), and of course nothing like a friend. I'm sure you could start a nationwide poll and list as many enemies to mankind as you think there are and put death in there and most would pick death as the biggest enemy, wouldn't you agree?
Also, besides these, you still didn't answer my other question, if it's not death then what is it, the biggest enemy of mankind? Also, please don't say that it's religious conflict, because if there was no death there wouldn't be any need for religious institutions in the first place. The plain and simple matter is, Jesus came to abolish death, which is why people who become Christian stop fearing it. Death is the last enemy of man to be destroyed. Also, like I said before, a non Christian can claim that they don't fear death, but the closer they get to it the more uncomfortable and the more apprehensive they will become, and that's fact.
EDIT: Zen1man is talking about this link, Peanutbuttermunky: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen045.html
SO you saying that sin could be forgiving by god... Well in Buddhalism sin are not forgiving by god, in fact you'll be sent to hell and be punish for your sin and afther that you'll again be reborn into any kind of animale and if your sin are not that big you'll get to be a human again. The reason for being sent to be born again it's to give you another chance to proven yourself to god that you're worthy to enter heaven. By doing so, you will have to do twise at much good deed work from the past life, you will also need to do whatever you can't to help others, even if it's cost you your life.
And you also ask a question: if it's not death then what is it, the biggest enemy of mankind?
My answer for you: Death is not the biggest enemy for mankind at all, but life itself is the biggest enemy to mankind.
I think i know why you would think that death is the biggest scares/enemy in your life. What seperate you and most of the peoples on this planet is that you were born into a happy family and a well supported or rich family. The ress of the world or peoples around the you (notice them or not), they are born into an unhappy family and poor life style, they have to work thire way in life and fight their own will to lived on. They have a will to it's not because of afraid of death but afraid of not forfilling their responsibility in there family and most of all help out there parent. You see these peoples have to struggle in there everyday life, in their home, in the stree and even everyday school, its a struggle for them. Some of them have to start working since the age of 8 or 9 to help out their family in food and household cost. And there are some whom been left out of hope in life and living life by the gun and street, they sometime have no choice of choosing of what they should do or not to do. They always have to look behind their sholder to check if that could be their last moment in life. Soo much worry soo much responsibility for these kind of peoples that will make you go nut if you ever experience what they are feeling inside.
My point is that, to lived your life daily and suffer and stress, than you won't fear death but find it to be a just another way of escaping the harsh reality of life.
kind of like the buddhalism belief ot being on earth is to repay your sin and afther you had done so you can be free if you done it right.
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 19:50
SO you saying that sin could be forgiving by god... Well in Buddhalism sin are not forgiving by god, in fact you'll be sent to hell and be punish for your sin and afther that you'll again be reborn into any kind of animale and if your sin are not that big you'll get to be a human again.
There isn't a human on earth who cannot sin. Only Jesus (God) was able to do that.
PeanutButterMunky and Narutoboy, tell me why are you being and doing good deed and reading the bible, what is your answer to that.
remember you can't ly.
I don't even think you understand your own argument.
We all know that the main reason for you guys to be reading the bible and doing good deed beacuase you afraid to be sent to hell and wanted to go to heaven. Am I'm right. If I'm not than what is your reason for doing so.
No, that isn't the reason. The reason is God's love.
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 19:54
PeanutButterMunky and Narutoboy, tell me why are you being and doing good deed and reading the bible, what is your answer to that.
remember you can't ly.
We all know that the main reason for you guys to be reading the bible and doing good deed beacuase you afraid to be sent to hell and wanted to go to heaven. Am I'm right. If I'm not than what is your reason for doing so.
who says we cant lie? everybody sins, just because were christians doesnt mean we are immune to it or not allowed
three lies:
i hate anime
i hate my dog
i hate bruce lee
Im doing good deeds and reading the Bible cause im following Gods will. Im also reading the bible because it's a very interesting book. if you new anything about hell and how terrible it is, you would be afraid to :P
SO you saying that sin could be forgiving by god... Well in Buddhalism sin are not forgiving by god, in fact you'll be sent to hell and be punish for your sin and afther that you'll again be reborn into any kind of animale and if your sin are not that big you'll get to be a human again.
There isn't a human on earth who cannot sin. Only Jesus (God) was able to do that.
PeanutButterMunky and Narutoboy, tell me why are you being and doing good deed and reading the bible, what is your answer to that.
remember you can't ly.
I don't even think you understand your own argument.
We all know that the main reason for you guys to be reading the bible and doing good deed beacuase you afraid to be sent to hell and wanted to go to heaven. Am I'm right. If I'm not than what is your reason for doing so.
No, that isn't the reason. The reason is God's love.
Who ever said Heaven is easy to enter. And im not talkin about small sin im talkin about questionable sin. sin that its enough to be question.
second of it: you cant answer my question because you know that what i had stated it's true. You cant escape the true facturality of this fact of be doing selfishness good deed.
Narutoboy said:
everyone doing good deed in expecting something in return.
You are right and wrong about that.
you see when i a person help out a homeless person, what do they expect in return from a homeless person whom have noting to give, Simplely Because he have noting. So the person it's just doing it from the kindness of his/her heart. ANd that's call Selfless Good Deed
Mael Duin
04-18-2006, 20:11
I think your forgetting laws set by our goverment and society itself that keep us in check. How can you "see" that happening if it hasnt? (Ms. Cleo perhaps).
Nope, not forgetting. And while there are laws, people are breaking those laws all the time so I don't see this being any valid. BTW, isn't that last sentence...ironical?
And death IS man's ultimate enemy, whether you want to agree with me or not.
I just can't agree with this. Death can be the ultimate savior to some. Like me, if I'm ever getting so fatal injury that I'm paralyzed, so I can't move my legs and my arms. My life would be like living in the hell. I would rather die than live on in living hell.
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 20:11
dumbo:
It doesn’t matter if the person has nothing to give. the person who does the good deed still gets a good feeling inside for what they did. THAT’S THEIR REWARD!!!!!!!!
EDIT: so mail duin (sp?) are you saying people dont break Gods laws?
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 20:12
second of it: you cant answer my question because you know that what i had stated it's true.
That's certainly incorrect. Your question doesn't make sense. That's why I can't answer it. There are also questions which cannot be answered because they are beyond human grasp.
You cant escape the true facturality of this fact of be doing selfishness good deed.
I don't even know the point you're trying to make. Escape? I'm not escaping anything. I wasn't even arguing with you on this point.
And im not talkin about small sin im talkin about questionable sin. sin that its enough to be question.
Before you said no sin...now you're making exceptions with small sin and questionable sin. I was talking about ALL sin.
?
Mael Duin
04-18-2006, 20:16
EDIT: so mail duin (sp?) are you saying people dont break Gods laws?
...I have absolutely no idea where you got that idea. Of course people break those. It's hard to discuss with you, I don't understand some of your points at all =(
What it's very sad is that christianity or any others religion, don't even relize what they are doing it's noting more than just a selfishness good deed.
Helping others or being good and reading god scriptural, for an expectation to be noticiable and be accepted by god, also hoping to be welcome into heaven.
They can't see what's outside even when the window it's completely open, but they could clearly see what's outside when the window it's completely shut.
dumbo:
It doesn’t matter if the person has nothing to give. the person who does the good deed still gets a good feeling inside for what they did. THAT’S THEIR REWARD!!!!!!!!
EDIT: so mail duin (sp?) are you saying people dont break Gods laws?
You gotta be kidding me right... hahah :lol:
You think by feeling good aftherward, it's like wanting something.
Good feeling it's not selfishness good deed, Alright Narutoboy.
Wanting or expecting something, thats Selfishness good deed...
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 20:26
EDIT: so mail duin (sp?) are you saying people dont break Gods laws?
...I have absolutely no idea where you got that idea. Of course people break those. It's hard to discuss with you, I don't understand some of your points at all =(
I'm very complex, someone with such a feeble mind as you can't fully comprehend what I'm saying :lol: jk
you said "And while there are laws, people are breaking those laws all the time so I don't see this being any valid". so i took it that you were saying people don't break Gods law.
you were saying before that if we didn't have religion and God's laws, people would be out of control. I'm just saying since we have laws set by our own goverment that also keeps us in check.
second of it: you cant answer my question because you know that what i had stated it's true.
That's certainly incorrect. Your question doesn't make sense. That's why I can't answer it. There are also questions which cannot be answered because they are beyond human grasp.
You cant escape the true facturality of this fact of be doing selfishness good deed.
I don't even know the point you're trying to make. Escape? I'm not escaping anything. I wasn't even arguing with you on this point.
And im not talkin about small sin im talkin about questionable sin. sin that its enough to be question.
Before you said no sin...now you're making exceptions with small sin and questionable sin. I was talking about ALL sin.
?
Dude how could you not understand my question or think that it dosnt make sense.
My question is: why are you being and doing good deed and reading the bible?
How is that a question make no sense and how did you not understand my question?
......
about the sin subject, sorry i didnt make myself clear at first but now i did.
Mael Duin
04-18-2006, 20:35
EDIT: so mail duin (sp?) are you saying people dont break Gods laws?
...I have absolutely no idea where you got that idea. Of course people break those. It's hard to discuss with you, I don't understand some of your points at all =(
I'm very complex, someone with such a feeble mind as you can't fully comprehend what I'm saying :lol: jk
you said "And while there are laws, people are breaking those laws all the time so I don't see this being any valid". so i took it that you were saying people don't break Gods law.
you were saying before that if we didn't have religion and God's laws, people would be out of control. I'm just saying since we have laws set by our own goverment that also keeps us in check.
Oh, I did say something like that? I don't remember and I'm too lazy to see it for myself so I just believe you. Okay, I will make new one:
If people never would have believed in any big lifeforms, gods etc. and there would be tribes, clans etc. Yes, laws made by humans would be there but people would break those alot more than if it was made by god (or shaman, priest. You get the point. Laws made by religion). Why I think like this? Because if the lawbreaker don't believe in god(s), he just...let's say murders someone, because he thinks he will NEVER get any punishment from it because no one saw him. But if it was law made by god and this lawbreaker would believe in god(s), he wouldn't do the murder because he knows that god is watching him and god isn't happy.
If you don't understand this, then just ignore my whole post. I tried to make it more clear but as you can see, failed. Now, time to sleep.
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 20:38
mael duin:
well this all depends. if there are more believers then non believers then you may be correct, but if there are more non believers then believers (which is what i think is true) then I am correct.
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 22:31
dumbo:
It doesn’t matter if the person has nothing to give. the person who does the good deed still gets a good feeling inside for what they did. THAT’S THEIR REWARD!!!!!!!!
EDIT: so mail duin (sp?) are you saying people dont break Gods laws?
You gotta be kidding me right... hahah :lol:
You think by feeling good aftherward, it's like wanting something.
Good feeling it's not selfishness good deed, Alright Narutoboy.
Wanting or expecting something, thats Selfishness good deed...
*sigh* your name says it all buddy. Feeling good afterwards is the reward people who aren’t looking for a thank you or material things get. Every body’s main goal for doing a good deed (if not wanting a thank you or material things) is to get a good feeling inside. Another reward they get is the satisfaction of seeing these people receive the help given. So using your logic Sherlock, that is technically a selfish good deed.
PeanutButterMunky
04-18-2006, 22:52
I'm done talking in this thread. There are 30 pages of people arguing and it'll probably end up not going anywhere. So like I told Mael, I hope you all find what you're looking for guys. Take care...peace...and God bless.
Later!
dumbo:
It doesn’t matter if the person has nothing to give. the person who does the good deed still gets a good feeling inside for what they did. THAT’S THEIR REWARD!!!!!!!!
EDIT: so mail duin (sp?) are you saying people dont break Gods laws?
You gotta be kidding me right... hahah :lol:
You think by feeling good aftherward, it's like wanting something.
Good feeling it's not selfishness good deed, Alright Narutoboy.
Wanting or expecting something, thats Selfishness good deed...
*sigh* your name says it all buddy. Feeling good afterwards is the reward people who aren’t looking for a thank you or material things get. Every body’s main goal for doing a good deed (if not wanting a thank you or material things) is to get a good feeling inside. Another reward they get is the satisfaction of seeing these people receive the help given. So using your logic Sherlock, that is technically a selfish good deed.
Let see, first of all when you feel good from doing good deed its not a selffish good deed. How could it be a selfish good deed when the feeling good its your own and not giving by anyone. but it's hapen because you help someone.
Second of all: when someone help othes and expected to get something in return, that its a want, and expectation. NOw that is a selfishness good deed
when you want or expecting something in return of doing something good, that is all a selfishness good deed.
Selfishness good deed its when you are expecting or wanting something from someone, when you help them.
A good feeling from your own body and heart and not from anyone but your own (how could that be a selfish good deed?). You do good because you know it's the right thing to do, and for that you feel good about it. and thats a selfless good deed, because you didnt epected that feeling but it just hapen when you had done it.
if you dont know the definition of Selfishness good deed, than i think you should look it up Narutoboy, beacause i reallie think you need a dictinary on that.
Please understand something Dumbo and Mael Duin, God wants to use all of us to attract more people to him. That's one of the reasons Christians are supposed to do good all the time, so that when people who spend time with you start to notice the difference, you can witness to them and lead them to the Lord.
When I say that death is man's ultimate enemy, I'm speaking from a spirtual perspective as well as a physical and mental perspectives. Please understand that death is a result and punishment for sin. That scenario you described Dumbo wouldn't even come up if there was no such thing as death, even though death can take many, many forms. If there was no death, there would be no sin, so really, death IS man's ultimate enemy. God hates death, because there is no death in him and he doesn't want there to be death in his creation.
Also, Dumbo, you mentioned reincarnation as a possiblility, well, I have a link that pretty much refutes that, and it's very convincing too, exposing the problems of being punished that way. Here it is: http://www.comparativereligion.com/reincarnation2.html
narutoboy
04-18-2006, 23:03
dumbo:
I’m just using your logic remember that. It’s a selfish good deed because you are expecting something in return which happens to be a good feeling in side. A selfishness good deed is expecting something PERIOD, it does not have to come from the person the good deed was brought upon (which it technically did). The good feeling in this case is not conjured up by yourself, but a result from what you did. I do know what the definition of a selfishness good deed thank you very much. It is when someone does something with the sole purpose of receiving some kind of thanks or gratitude.
Please understand something Dumbo and Mael Duin, God wants to use all of us to attract more people to him. That's one of the reasons Christians are supposed to do good all the time, so that when people who spend time with you start to notice the difference, you can witness to them and lead them to the Lord.
When I say that death is man's ultimate enemy, I'm speaking from a spirtual perspective as well as a physical and mental perspectives. Please understand that death is a result and punishment for sin. That scenario you described Dumbo wouldn't even come up if there was no such thing as death, even though death can take many, many forms. If there was no death, there would be no sin, so really, death IS man's ultimate enemy. God hates death, because there is no death in him and he doesn't want there to be death in his creation.
Also, Dumbo, you mentioned reincarnation as a possiblility, well, I have a link that pretty much refutes that, and it's very convincing too, exposing the problems of being punished that way. Here it is: http://www.comparativereligion.com/reincarnation2.html
If this world were to have no death, we would have an over population + peoples whom are old and ageing would simplely wont beable to funtion in a maner or anywayz to keep themself moving and happy (would you be happy if you were to grow old and cant move again).
SO to say that no one would dy ever again and to keep order at the same time than the world would have to be immortal/no more growth/no new born (cuz no more growth)/no new peoples/ no new thing, and everyone will probably be doing the samething over and over again (would be so boring to think about it) because if you were to lived forever than there will be no more thing for you to do to entertain yourself. Living forever meaning that you'll get to do samething over and over again. To me that's just very hard to see myself be doing.
baller87
04-18-2006, 23:24
us humans are going through a phase right now once science becomes more common and widespread everyone is going to realize that we're just another organism in the tree of life and evolve in a couple of million years. And no god does not exist its something we created to enjoy life or look forward to somthing, i mean if there was a no life after death or the fear of going to hell the world would be a living hell.
dumbo:
I’m just using your logic remember that. It’s a selfish good deed because you are expecting something in return which happens to be a good feeling in side. A selfishness good deed is expecting something PERIOD, it does not have to come from the person the good deed was brought upon (which it technically did). The good feeling in this case is not conjured up by yourself, but a result from what you did. I do know what the definition of a selfishness good deed thank you very much. It is when someone does something with the sole purpose of receiving some kind of thanks or gratitude.
NO you are wrong on that again, because when a person done it for the first time they dont know that they'll going to feel good or not or even feel anything at all. The second time they do a good deed they didnt expected, because they knew it already. When you knew it already how could you be expecthing it.
Expecthing and Knowing they are two diff word. If you think about it, they may sound and seem similar but when you think about it they are diff. When you are epecthing something you are not reallie sure of it but still expecting for it, but when you are already known of that something it, you wont be needing to be expecting it.
Expecting: it's when you are not sure of it but still expecting it.
Knowing: it's when you are sure of it, because you already know of it.'
Sound confusing but think about it.
Please understand something Dumbo and Mael Duin, God wants to use all of us to attract more people to him. That's one of the reasons Christians are supposed to do good all the time, so that when people who spend time with you start to notice the difference, you can witness to them and lead them to the Lord.
When I say that death is man's ultimate enemy, I'm speaking from a spirtual perspective as well as a physical and mental perspectives. Please understand that death is a result and punishment for sin. That scenario you described Dumbo wouldn't even come up if there was no such thing as death, even though death can take many, many forms. If there was no death, there would be no sin, so really, death IS man's ultimate enemy. God hates death, because there is no death in him and he doesn't want there to be death in his creation.
Also, Dumbo, you mentioned reincarnation as a possiblility, well, I have a link that pretty much refutes that, and it's very convincing too, exposing the problems of being punished that way. Here it is: http://www.comparativereligion.com/reincarnation2.html
Fedos you just proved my point made some 5 pages or so back. That you unconsciously resent life itself. Reason? Because death is inherent in what being alive is all about, you were once a child, but then you had to die to that identity and explore and take on a new identity in your early pubescent teenage life...remember what you went through when you had to start watching sex ed videos? think about, 5 or 10 years ago, you liked different television shows, you had different friends and different ideas going on in your head, you had to die and become identity reborn after the first time you kissed a girl. You are constantly dieing and being reborn...every instant you form a new relationship with the world around you that will grow, evolve for a while but then decay and finally die; only to be replaced by a new relationship with either another person or a material possesion or a desire. This is as obvious as the cyclical metamorphosis of the Seasons. You continue to evolve until 10 years from now you will look back and you see how different you were today. In that span of time, you stubbed your toes, you lost pets to old age, you lost and gained new friends and maybe some of your relatives died.
Hence, you resent life (because death is inherent in it) like a freightnened little child so you make an enemy of death.
:idea: Here is a radical notion for you...rather then sit in morbid stress of the truth of death, see it as a lesson instead. In fact death is at the heart of every religion, thats what they are all about, transcending it. To overcome death doesn't mean to not go through it (thats a baby's immature fantasy). But when it arises in our life (such as the loss of our friends, family and pets: pets are a really good pretest for dealing with the death of a loved one.) You allow yourself not to be smashed by the grip of death, rather allow its cold truth shock you into a equanimous contemplation of the shortness and inevitability of death in life. In this way you come into the present (something Buddhists are very adept at) and you recognize who around you is still alive but also the truth of their inevitable death as well as your own. Then you contemplate what is it that every human being really wants more than anything? What do you want? You want the love of others, their kindness and friendship, this is what humans want more than anything. So within this meditation on death something wonderful can happen (Requires skilled meditation), a tremendous feeling of blissful compassion arises in your heart, right where the grief was a second before. A profound sense of empathy is deeply infused in us and we come away transformed; our heart literally aches with the desire for compassionate action, where our true soul hearts desire is too help them achieve their aim of happiness.
In this space (which I have experienced) you can transcend death, you don't transcend it by avoiding it, but rather you dissolve the quiseness and tension in your stomach, your fear of death. Not only that, but it is replaced by softness and peace and the overwhelming desire to help others ahcieve this same release from the grip of death. You don't transcend your death by concentrating on yourself in a griped way, you transcend it by putting your attention on something else, and with that attention energy to act on that attention, in this case the desire to help others. This is the point of any spiritual practice, they are all the same with different lables and customs. This is what connecting to God (the other) is all about.
You Christians put your attention on Jesus, that is why you feel you are right, because it really does take you away from yourself, and you put more importance the greater good, i.e. Jesus. Jesus said, "The kingdom of Heaven is within you." It's perplexing how you can completely misintepret this though. Heaven isn't some other time and place, (because there is no other time and place but now, thinking otherwise is delusional) It's right here in the world where one achieves the peace that passeth understanding.
Jesus didn't die, get resurrected and go to heaven...he was already in heaven even when being nailed to the cross, because his mind held no negative reaction to it, he was a master of the self and his fear. He was a walking node or outlet of God, a human physical conduit with a powerful Godforce current running through it.
True spiritually is way more profound than what you are thinking, it's not about getting what you want, not even close, it's about having the supernormal strenght of heart to love what is, to erode your own limitations of fear and resentment. Thats what being in a relationship with Jesus is about, you view that since Jesus is beyond this world, since you put so much attention on him as such, you can overcome youself and your cravings that sin because you believed you are being beheld in Jesus's embrace. this works, I am not saying you are not really experianceing miricles, just that you are ignorant of what is really going on under the surface; ignorant of what is really happening within you when you "commune" with Jesus. You project your attention on a being that is always in love with you, thus one who will not dissapoint you so you can always feel that because this Jesus is higher than you and he loves you, you can overcome the world. The problem because you are so narrow and self-possed in your tiny little Christian world that you fail to realize that people of other religions are having essentially the same experiance and miracle's, only with a different symbol (different religion) than you.
The religion you speak of is for children, it requires fantastical, pretty and attractive images, views and beliefs that cover up reality and stage it up as a comfortingly enticing notion that calms your body somewhat, puts you at ease and helps you distract yourself from your quiseness about death;, but it is a very low and barbaric way to overcome death. :roll:
Jesus said, "The kingdom of Heaven is within you." It's perplexing how you can completely misintepret this though. Heaven isn't some other time and place, (because there is no other time and place but now, thinking otherwise is delusional) It's right here in the world where one achieves the peace that passeth understanding.
When Jesus says 'the kingdom of heaven is within you' he is most definitely not talking about meditating, Zen1man, he is talking about the fact that--when you accept Christ as your savior--he comes to dwell within you, and since he is the king of heaven and it is his kingdom that is why he can say the kingdom of heaven is within you.
Jesus said, "The kingdom of Heaven is within you." It's perplexing how you can completely misintepret this though. Heaven isn't some other time and place, (because there is no other time and place but now, thinking otherwise is delusional) It's right here in the world where one achieves the peace that passeth understanding.
When Jesus says 'the kingdom of heaven is within you' he is most definitely not talking about meditating, Zen1man, he is talking about the fact that--when you accept Christ as your savior--he comes to dwell within you, and since he is the king of heaven and it is his kingdom that is why he can say the kingdom of heaven is within you.
That is eactly what I meant Fedos, you just don't have the years, the wisdom to understand the subtleties of life.
AlexPallas
04-19-2006, 05:55
"A cult is simply a religion with no political authority; likewise, a religion is simply a cult with political authority..." -english poet
i like this quote
Jesus said, "The kingdom of Heaven is within you." It's perplexing how you can completely misintepret this though. Heaven isn't some other time and place, (because there is no other time and place but now, thinking otherwise is delusional) It's right here in the world where one achieves the peace that passeth understanding.
When Jesus says 'the kingdom of heaven is within you' he is most definitely not talking about meditating, Zen1man, he is talking about the fact that--when you accept Christ as your savior--he comes to dwell within you, and since he is the king of heaven and it is his kingdom that is why he can say the kingdom of heaven is within you.
now this truely shows brainwashing in its purest form, can you hear yourself man?
And if you do take the bibble literaly, how about the fact that it states that the earth is only about 6k years old.
That's not even taking the bible literally. That's just creating a random number based on bad math.
And PeanutButterMunky you state later on that you don't belive in that there were 15 other competing species of man, and homo sapiens eventually came up on top. Well its really not that way, its more like there where 15 other braches in the homo Genius, after we broke away from the ape family. Most of the different species did not excist at once, only like 3-4 at a time. And homo sapiens you know today only really appeared about 100k years ago, by that time there were really only 1-2 other species human competed with. This is suported by many fossils.
I know, I studied this. But the fossils themselves are severly lacking to qualify as "evidence".
There is only one species of homo sapiens, and that's us. What distiguesed us from teh other 15 was our bran size, 20-30% larger than the rest, you can tell ths by the size of the skulls. The higher you go in the 6 million year old branch in our history the bigger the brain got. That's why we are here discussing this today.
They say that a human being's most powerful weapon is the brain [and our hands]. This has allowed us to advance so far ahead in civilization that we don't think we should even classify ourselves with other animals. Music, movies, poetry, architecture, love, compassion, etc.. There are so many beautiful things about human beings that are so far beyond any creature on this entire planet. We aren't just "a little bit ahead" of other animals. We are the dominant species on this planet because of our complicated and beautiful brains. Just look around you and look in front of you at the computer you're typing on. Talk about amazing achievements. Using the resources given to us by this planet to create this wonderful technology. I always thought it was silly for some people to compare us with modern monkeys. I'd much rather talk about dolphins, considering they are the 2nd most intelligent creatures on the planet, but still billions miles away from human beings. Too bad our evil nature will probably be our ultimate downfall. We'll probably just end up destroying ourselves.
Anyway...just looking at what we've accomplished as human beings makes me think that there must be something beyond us all. I've always thought this way even before I became Christian. It just...makes sense, doesn't it? At least I'd like to think so.
you reveal clear blindness. Can you change the color of your skin to vibrant patterns of blue and green on command like the comelian? Can you see sound vibrations like bats? Can you hear a sound a 100 miles away, like a whale, or smell an ounce of blood 1 mile away like sharks? for that matter can you breath under water like Fish? Can you fly like a bird. Do you have the super human capacity to lift ten times your own body weight like ants can? Can you know when natural disasters like earthquakes and hurricanes will happen like the evidence showing animals can? Can you run 60 miles per hour like a cheetah. Does your bodily features have the same beatifil colors and vibrance of Peacocks? Can you survive in sub-zero temperatures like Polar Bears can?
NO :idea: you and I, nor any human can do these things. We are mono color, sub-sensory, (sense ability compared to animals) hairless, (like those ugly dogs) apes. That doesn't mean we are not equally beautiful as the other creatures. The only thing that makes us unique is our ability to walk on two legs, complex interaction with enviroment via opposable thumbs, and our comparitvely large brains which has bestowed on us the title of the craftiest creature on the planet. Our Bodies are made of the same material as the animals and we are born the exact same way. Human beings are simply the craftiest animals on the planet, thats all. And though that has led to our ability for pattern recognition (wisdom, understanding of the processies of nature), it has also made us the most oppressive of all animals on those with lesser brains. We can fish and cause whole species extinctions because we outsmarted the fish, likewise with hunting, also we can utilize the lumber of animals homes for our own self-absorbed purposes.
"A cult is simply a religion with no political authority; likewise, a religion is simply a cult with political authority..." -english poet
i like this quote
Jesus said, "The kingdom of Heaven is within you." It's perplexing how you can completely misintepret this though. Heaven isn't some other time and place, (because there is no other time and place but now, thinking otherwise is delusional) It's right here in the world where one achieves the peace that passeth understanding.
When Jesus says 'the kingdom of heaven is within you' he is most definitely not talking about meditating, Zen1man, he is talking about the fact that--when you accept Christ as your savior--he comes to dwell within you, and since he is the king of heaven and it is his kingdom that is why he can say the kingdom of heaven is within you.
now this truely shows brainwashing in its purest form, can you hear yourself man?
Umm, I'm not making this up, this is common thought in evangelical Christiainity. When you get saved, Christ makes you spiritually alive (because before you were spiritually dead) by dwelling within you and giving you the power to live like he'd want you to live. It's him living through you. Let's put it like this, before Adam sinned, God was dwelling within him, when he sinned, God withdrew his presence from him and Adam became spiritually dead. When you accept Christ, you become spiritually alive.
For further clarification, just look back at the Old Testament and how God had the Jews carry his presence on their shoulders. Ever since the fall of man, it has always been God's desire to have man carry the burden of his presence, and that's exactly what Christians do, they carry the presence of the Lord with them everywhere they go. And where does this burden come from? It comes from persecution from others and also from Satanic attacks.
boring :(
this Thread is kinda strange. no one ever listens to each other.
AlexPallas
04-20-2006, 16:10
boring :(
this Thread is kinda strange. no one ever listens to each other.
yeah, i think a certain few members are more interested in winning than dicussing. but aren't we gamers afterall
boring :(
this Thread is kinda strange. no one ever listens to each other.
yeah, i think a certain few members are more interested in winning than dicussing. but aren't we gamers afterall
Indeed!
But there are things that must not be taken lightly. Politics, religion, philosophy, etc. Otherwise the space of discution becomes pointless. Better to play our nice consoles ;)
narutoboy
04-20-2006, 17:10
Dumbo:
I said i wasnt going to respond but i had to.
So people who do a good deed for the first time don’t know it’s going to feel good? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. They are doing the good deed because they know it’s going to make the recipient feel good, so why wouldn’t the person doing the deed know they’re going to feel good? “The second time they do a good deed they didnt expected, because they knew it already”, that makes absolutely no sense. How does knowing your going to do a good deed stop you from expecting to feel good inside?
What do you think I am stupid? I know “expecting” and “knowing” have different meanings.
Dumbo:
I said i wasnt going to respond but i had to.
So people who do a good deed for the first time don’t know it’s going to feel good? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. They are doing the good deed because they know it’s going to make the recipient feel good, so why wouldn’t the person doing the deed know they’re going to feel good? “The second time they do a good deed they didnt expected, because they knew it already”, that makes absolutely no sense. How does knowing your going to do a good deed stop you from expecting to feel good inside?
What do you think I am stupid? I know “expecting” and “knowing” have different meanings.
I did not say that: "How does knowing your going to do a good deed stop you from expecting to feel good inside?"
I said: he knew the after feeling already, so he wont be needing to be expecting it.
-How could you not know the different btween The word Knowing and Expectiong...
About doing thing for the first time:
When was the first time that you drank your first cup of milk? Did you expected that milk to tast the way it tasted today? Did you knew from the begining of how the milk going to tast the way it tasted. "how could you knew at the time when you never tasted any before"
About Expecting and Knowing:
Let say, I ask you a question about *Naruto.
"Is the show Naruto any good?" Is your answer going to be "I expected the show to be really good" if that so, than I would ask "how could you be expecting it to be good, I though you seen it already?" The correct Answer would be "The show it's really good" Because you seen and know it already.
Let me give you a definition for the WORD Expecting, and Knowing because it seem like you have no clue what is the different btween the 2 word.
Expecting:
To look forward to the probable occurrence or appearance of: expecting a telephone call; expects rain on Sunday.
To consider likely or certain: expect to see them soon. See Usage Note at anticipate.
To consider reasonable or due: We expect an apology.
To consider obligatory; require: The school expects its pupils to be on time.
Knowing:
To perceive directly; grasp in the mind with clarity or certainty.
To regard as true beyond doubt: I know she won't fail.
To have a practical understanding of, as through experience; be skilled in: knows how to cook.
To have fixed in the mind: knows her Latin verbs.
To have experience of: “a black stubble that had known no razor” (William Faulkner).
narutoboy
04-20-2006, 19:08
dumbo:
You know what I just realized something, it doesnt even matter if its knowing or expecting. The point is the reward is the good feeling they get inside. You said Christians only do good deeds to go to heaven, well these people do good deeds because they know they're gonna get a good feeling inside.......so whats the diff.
dumbo:
You know what I just realized something, it doesnt even matter if its knowing or expecting. The point is the reward is the good feeling they get inside. You said Christians only do good deeds to go to heaven, well these people do good deeds because they know they're gonna get a good feeling inside.......so whats the diff.
OMB--- you just dont get it do you?
These peoples are doing good deed its not because they want a good feeling inside... Ooh buddha how did you come to that conclusion... Its simplely because it feel right. ITs not like "Oooh today I want to feel good and BE very happie so i better go give some of my money to the homeless so I would have the good feeling inside and be very happy joy joy". :lol:
And SOmethime you dont alway feel good by itself you could also feel bad as well for doing good deed. You do it just becasue it feel right, Not because you have to.
Like to say if you were very hungry ONe day and you gone to McD to buy a big mac meal. YOu bought it and carry it outside to take it home and share it with your lil bro and as you were walking along the sidewalk. You saw this old homeless lady siting on the sidewalk as you were going home, she look like she had noting to eat for week. So you decided to gave her your Big Mac Meal, because you feel very sorry and sad for her, but it's donsnt make you feel any better because you're still very hungry and also were planing to share with your lil bro (so you feel bad about your lil bro), and you also had no more money.
The good feeling is always there. Its not something that you didnt own from the begining or anything like that, its not given by anyone. So Its was never a reward, since the feeling was your from the begining.
HOw could you call it a reward or a gift when its your to begin with?
IF you see it that way than maybe this snario should be your.
YOu just won the state lottery and you gone to claim your pize. The lottery company gone to your bank account and take out your saving and hand it to you and said thats your reward. And this its you * :shock:
narutoboy
04-20-2006, 20:03
Dumbo:
Fine don’t believe that feeling good inside is their reward. I know you can’t deny that seeing the after effects of your deed (seeing the person who you helped happiness) is their reward.
“And SOmethime you dont alway feel good by itself you also feel bad as well for doing good deed”
Well in your last post you said that you do not expect, you KNOW. So tell me, if it’s possible to feel both good and bad about your deed, how can you know (tell) how you’re going to feel if there are two possiblilites (good and bad feeling). (Contradiction?)
Regardless if your hungry or not, it would make you feel good knowing that you fed somebody that most likely hasn’t eaten in days or maybe weeks. Knowing that you possible saved this persons life would be a little more important then you (who is able to eat everyday) not getting a hamburger.
Your “snario” (scenario) LOL, doesn’t have anything to do with the subject at hand. If your going to make a “snario”(scenario) at least make it relevant.
Dumbo:
Fine don’t believe that feeling good inside is their reward. I know you can’t deny that seeing the after effects of your deed (seeing the person who you helped happiness) is their reward.
“And SOmethime you dont alway feel good by itself you also feel bad as well for doing good deed”
Well in your last post you said that you do not expect, you KNOW. So tell me, if it’s possible to feel both good and bad about your deed, how can you know (tell) how you’re going to feel if there are two possiblilites (good and bad feeling). (Contradiction?)
Regardless if your hungry or not, it would make you feel good knowing that you fed somebody that most likely hasn’t eaten in days or maybe weeks. Knowing that you possible saved this persons life would be a little more important then you (who is able to eat everyday) not getting a hamburger.
Your “snario” (scenario) LOL, doesn’t have anything to do with the subject at hand. If your going to make a “snario”(scenario) at least make it relevant.
I quote in there that, you feel bad about not taking the meal home to share it wit your lil bro. ANd the good feeling its from helpin the old lady...
ANd yet you still dont understand the diff btween doing something for hope of a reward and just doing something without hope for any reward.
You just cant accepted that you're doing good deed and reading the bible, simplely because you want something in return from god. You want god to accept you and welcome you into heaven and make sure that you're not on the devil list.
That's call a selfishness good deed.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What it's very sad is that Christianity or any others religion, fail to realize what they are doing it's noting more than just a selfishness good deed.
Helping others and being good or reading god scriptures, for an expectation to be noticeable and be accepted by god, also hoping to be welcome into heaven.
Quote:
They can't see what's outside even when the window it's completely open, but they could clearly see what's outside when the window it's completely shut.
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Teck_Tronik
04-20-2006, 21:07
I believe in god, but i just dont understand....if there is a god...who created who? what created what? and science blience, science was created... so what if theirs no proof...my proof is that someting created something and that 'something' is god
BMT-216A
04-20-2006, 21:13
Yep. He's upstairs somewhere. And about the entire evolutionism vs. creationism, I personally always thought God kinda set evolution in motion and steered it to create the world of today and yesterday. Proves both theories right. Yeah.
narutoboy
04-21-2006, 00:48
Dumbo:
ok, I’m going to stop arguing with you because I see its going nowhere
I noticed you didn’t address key things in my previous post
narutoboy: Well in your last post you said that you do not expect, you KNOW. So tell me, if it’s possible to feel both good and bad about your deed, how can you know (tell) how you’re going to feel if there are two possibilities (good and bad feeling). (Contradiction?)
narutoboy: Fine don’t believe that feeling good inside is their reward. I know you can’t deny that seeing the after effects of your deed (seeing the person who you helped happiness) is their reward.
I want to know how seeing the after effects of your good deed can’t be perceived as a reward? It’s all about how the individual perceives something, so how can you tell what is and what is not a reward.
I live according to Gods will and the purpose of serving him is because he is a higher power, he created all of us, to be accepted by him, and to be accepted into heaven
Argument over…
AlexPallas
04-21-2006, 01:21
my god is better than yours
no mine is
no god doesn't exist
dumbo
no your dumbo
your god is dumbo
pawned!
NUMA NUMA
04-21-2006, 01:54
you believe a history book that tells you christopher colombus was the first one to discover it was round dont you?
You're all uneducated on this, when Christopher columbus took his journey, the fear was not falling off the earth. any sailor could tell you that the earth was round. The fear was that you would be unable to make it around the earth with the supply of food you had, starving to death, or if you are the captin probably being thrown overboard in anger.......fun. but his theory of going around the earth was dead wrong, he could not have made it North America saved his life.
AlexPallas
04-21-2006, 04:16
forgot, sony is god, even the vatican says so :)
http://static.flickr.com/52/132191870_d2eac07820.jpg?v=0
Dumbo:
ok, I’m going to stop arguing with you because I see its going nowhere
I noticed you didn’t address key things in my previous post
narutoboy: Well in your last post you said that you do not expect, you KNOW. So tell me, if it’s possible to feel both good and bad about your deed, how can you know (tell) how you’re going to feel if there are two possibilities (good and bad feeling). (Contradiction?)
narutoboy: Fine don’t believe that feeling good inside is their reward. I know you can’t deny that seeing the after effects of your deed (seeing the person who you helped happiness) is their reward.
I want to know how seeing the after effects of your good deed can’t be perceived as a reward? It’s all about how the individual perceives something, so how can you tell what is and what is not a reward.
I live according to Gods will and the purpose of serving him is because he is a higher power, he created all of us, to be accepted by him, and to be accepted into heaven
Argument over…
Did you even read what i wrote... or did you just scan thruw it and made up your own assumpiton... YOu said i didnt address your key question about feeling good and bad at the same time... Are you blind or what. didnt you see what i wrote up there. Geez* :roll:
I said you feel good bout helping out the lady but than at the same time you feel bad because you ant got no more money and not beable to share your meal with your lil bro at home.
HOW HARD ITS THAT sentences for anyone to understand?
AND how could a feeling of your own, turn out to be your reward? you tell me?
Its not "seeing the after effects of your good deed" its know the after effect already. ANd its not a reward, because its not giving by or from anyone.
ANd even if you still belived its a reward it still doesnt matter, because the person that is doing the good deed and has that feeling inside of him/her. Didn't ask for that feeling or care if he'll/she'll get it or not. The person done it, simplely because he/she just feel right about it.
ITs like this.
Christianity: They help out others or read the bible, Simpely because they don't want to be sent to hell and wanted to be accepted and welcome into god heaven.
Norm Goody Person: They help out others, simplely because it's feel right. Not because of the feeling that the'll receive afterward.
Narutoboy if you reallie belived that when a persons help out others persons, simplely because they want a so call reward "good feeling" inside of them. Maybe one day you are reallie sad for some reason, you should go to your bank and withdraw your money to give it to the needy and the homeless peoples (so you could get that Reward). :lol:
but that's still a Selfishless good deed none the less.
Let me show you the diff btween a selfless and selfishness good deed.
Selfless good deed: When a person help out anothers person, simplely because it's felt right. With no hope of geting any reward.
Selfishness good deed: When a person help out anothers person, simplely because they're hoping for a reward in reture for their good deed.
my god is better than yours
no mine is
no god doesn't exist
dumbo
no your dumbo
your god is dumbo
pawned!
I think someone it's on crack :lol:
you believe a history book that tells you christopher colombus was the first one to discover it was round dont you?
You're all uneducated on this, when Christopher columbus took his journey, the fear was not falling off the earth. any sailor could tell you that the earth was round. The fear was that you would be unable to make it around the earth with the supply of food you had, starving to death, or if you are the captin probably being thrown overboard in anger.......fun. but his theory of going around the earth was dead wrong, he could not have made it North America saved his life.
first of all it's not Christopher Columbus, the first to discover the world it's round. Christopher Columbus simplely brought the subject into a reality point of view. ITs was Michelangelo, whom is the first to dicument in his drawing that the world might be round and later on Columbus brough that theory into reality. OF cours he ant scare to fall off the edge of the earth beacuse he had notice that the earth had to be round since he was a boy, siting and watchin the ship as it come and go. he notice of how it slowly disappearing within the horizon. He later on came up with this theory of the world being round. And to proof his theory are correct he took off sailing to find the edge of the world (but he knew that there'll be no edge, because he trusted his theory of the world being round).
Note: Only Columbus were not scare of falling of the world(beliving in his own theory), and the rest of the others on his ship are terrified about the though of falling off the edge of the world.
ANd other thing, Others sailor they still think that the world were flat NO one at that time figure out that the world were round. NO One b4 Clumbus took sail across the pacific ocean. They all afraid of the though of falling off the edge of the earth. ONly Columbus took off to proof everyone wrong that the world is round and not flat.
NOTE: Before you call anyone uneducated, CHECK yourself first. :lol:
well you get the idea.
AlexPallas
04-21-2006, 18:34
my god is better than yours
no mine is
no god doesn't exist
dumbo
no your dumbo
your god is dumbo
pawned!
I think someone it's on crack :lol:
lol. anyone delusional enought to believe in an invisible guy in the sky :lol:
WhatRuOn
04-21-2006, 19:04
No offense to anyone here...but I think people that are so inclined to spread the believe to everyone and push the religion on others...are usually the ones that are insecure about themselves or their decisions...so it becomes a safety in numbers thing.
narutoboy
04-21-2006, 19:57
Dumbo:
I know I’m going against what I said again, but I have to respond.
Where does it say a reward has to be given to you by a separate entity? It’s possible for the reward to come from within yourself.
Ok, I’ll tell you how a feeling of your own can turn out to be a reward. You do a good deed, you feel good inside about what you did…..reward. Like I said before, it’s all about how you perceive something. You can’t tell me or anybody else that something is or is not a reward because its all about how the individual person perceives it.
AlexPallas:
lol. anyone delusional enough to believe we came about from chance and evolved from ooze. If all your going to do is make moronic jokes then don’t post, thanks. oh and by the way, God isnt in the sky....
whatruon:
very true
now im done hehe :P
AlexPallas
04-21-2006, 20:06
AlexPallas:
lol. anyone delusional enough to believe we came about from chance and evolved from ooze. If all your going to do is make moronic jokes then don’t post, thanks. oh and by the way, God isnt in the sky....
i was responding to someone responding to me. narutoboy, your mind needs to evolve, i'm done with this thread
Dumbo:
I know I’m going against what I said again, but I have to respond.
Where does it say a reward has to be given to you by a separate entity? It’s possible for the reward to come from within yourself.
Ok, I’ll tell you how a feeling of your own can turn out to be a reward. You do a good deed, you feel good inside about what you did…..reward. Like I said before, it’s all about how you perceive something. You can’t tell me or anybody else that something is or is not a reward because its all about how the individual person perceives it.
AlexPallas:
lol. anyone delusional enough to believe we came about from chance and evolved from ooze. If all your going to do is make moronic jokes then don’t post, thanks
whatruon:
very true
now im done hehe :P
Ok lets say its a reward since you want it to be reward so badly...
Still its not a selfishness good deed
reason for it.
The person that its doing the good deed, he/she didnt have any hope for a reward of any kind in return, so that its not a selfless good deed. Even if the person recieve a reward or not... its still a selfless good deed.
WHen Christian done a good deed, they have hope that god will accepted them and welcome them into heaven. That's call a selfishness good deed. Because you done something and hope that you'll get something in return.
SO simplely how hard you trying to turn this around its still wouldn't work Narutoboy, because in reality you know it or not you're doing a selfishness good deed.
narutoboy
04-21-2006, 20:23
Dumbo:
One more post ha ha
I don’t believe it’s a reward, I know it’s a reward because of perception (look the word up)
I notice you like to assume stuff and pass it off as fact. How do you know these non Christian people don’t do a good deed for hopes of a reward? The answer is you don’t
Allexpallas:
How does that change what you said? What does it matter if you were talking to me or him, your comment is still the same.
I'm not going to argue with you anymore, its getting absolutely nowhere. You can believe what you want to believe, no matter how dim-witted it may be. (im serious this time :o )
Dumbo:
One more post ha ha
I don’t believe it’s a reward, I know it’s a reward because of perception (look the word up)
I notice you like to assume stuff and pass it off as fact. How do you know these non Christian people don’t do a good deed for hopes of a reward? The answer is you don’t
Allexpallas:
How does that change what you said? What does it matter if you were talking to me or him, your comment is still the same.
I :lol: at you right now for not knowing the diff... and for thinking that i make up an assumption. :lol:
I think Allexpallas is right, you do needed to evole your brain... :lol:
narutoboy
04-21-2006, 20:36
dumbo:
well instead of laughing, try explaining to me how you know these people do good deeds with out wanting or expecting rewards or some kind of benefits. the only way you could possibly know this was if you knew every single non christian and you studied there good deeds they provide.
my brains just fine thankyou, cant say the same for you though :wink:
dumbo:
well instead of laughing, try explaining to me how you know these people do good deeds with out wanting or expecting rewards or some kind of benefits. the only way you could possibly know this was if you knew every single non christian and you studied there good deeds they provide.
my brains just fine thankyou, cant say the same for you though :wink:
Ok let me try one more time, if you still lost than you're hopeless. :lol:
First off, i dont know them, and second off, they didnt have hope to begain with. HOw could you be hoping for something that you knew you'll get it forshure.
---Its like hoping for a big mac when you're ordering it at McD.
---Its like hoping for school to be off on saturday and sunday.
---Its like hoping for an ice cream truck to have ice cream.
---its like hoping for snow when you're in the north pole.
If you still dont get it... than you reallie need help ahhaha :lol:
narutoboy
04-21-2006, 21:14
dumbo:
im thinking your hopeless.
That’s my point, you don’t know them. So how can you come to the conclusion that they are not doing a good deed for the purpose of a reward? How do you know their agenda? Nobodies talking about hoping and all that anymore
At the beginning of this thread it says not to insult anyone. 300 points removed. ~ PBM ~
NUMA NUMA
04-21-2006, 21:39
What it's very sad is that Christianity or any others religion, fail to realize what they are doing it's noting more than just a selfishness good deed.
Helping others and being good or reading god scriptures, for an expectation to be noticeable and be accepted by god, also hoping to be welcome into heaven.
No You've got it all wrong Christians don't do good deeds to become Christian, they just do them because there Christian, not to get in to heavan.
btw: You should use quote tags- [*quote]blah blah blah[/*quote] without the astrics.
narutoboy
04-21-2006, 23:02
Don't insult other members. ~ PBM ~
sorry about that :(
What it's very sad is that Christianity or any others religion, fail to realize what they are doing it's noting more than just a selfishness good deed.
Helping others and being good or reading god scriptures, for an expectation to be noticeable and be accepted by god, also hoping to be welcome into heaven.
No You've got it all wrong Christians don't do good deeds to become Christian, they just do them because there Christian, not to get in to heavan.
btw: You should use quote tags- [*quote]blah blah blah[/*quote] without the astrics.
Pleasee who are you trying to convince, everyone know that christian do good deed simplely because they wanted to go to heaven and be accepted by god, ANd hope not to be sent to hell. you should know that lying its a sin and you shouldnt be doing that if you're a christian.. :lol:
angelsky
04-22-2006, 06:55
Isn't it ironic that most people think of God when they are in trouble or worse but not when they are having naughty thoughts about the boyfriend/girlfriend of a friend or a relative ? ..... ironic ? more like hypocrisy .
PS3 rocks
04-22-2006, 11:59
I think hell is a way for the church to intimidate people in to believing in god. People think of god when they are in trouble because they want something to make it all better. Christians do good deeds because they are christian? lol The only reason they do good deeds is from fear of hell.
...to emphasize the afterlife is to deny life. To concentrate on Heaven is to create hell. In their desperate longing to transcend the disorderliness, friction, and unpredictability that pesters life; in their desire for a fresh start in a tidy habitat, germ-free and secured by angels, religious multitudes are gambling the only life they may ever have on a dark horse in a race that has no finish line."
I go to Catholic school and always have, trust me the majority of Catholics are not catholics. Most people fail to realise how cut throat Catholism is. Most people would disageree with the church on some issues and for many of those opions the Church at one point would have burrned them alive.
Also many Catholics dont knwo the history of their church, and the hipocriscy of the church's existance.
Isn't it ironic that most people think of God when they are in trouble or worse but not when they are having naughty thoughts about the boyfriend/girlfriend of a friend or a relative ? ..... ironic ? more like hypocrisy .
UMMM...People that pray to God have just realised the futitlity of it all. First off God is never gonna talk to you. Conincidences are a random occurance they are not a miraculous sign from God. Religion gives people hope when they need it. Like if they prey they will get into heaven and it makes the life not matter for them. WELL quite possible in the foreseeable future this is your only life. When your introuble the easy thing to do is prey to God. The hard thing to do would be to actually get up and try to fix your problems. Try it next time I bet it will work out for you a little better.
But to humor you if he is listening he is God dont know think he already knows about it?
The reason most people have faith is because they dont know anything substantial about their religion. YOu want to educate yourself read the Cannon or Caticism chances are you will find something you think is alittle harsh. And guess what the Pope bealives every line in that book. Yet, most dont know what teh Caticism is, and what I find ironic about thi sis how most Atherists know more about teh Christian religion than Christians do.
I respect most religons the ones I belives people only follow out of ignorance are Chrsitianity and The Baptist Church.
i dnt belive in god imm atheist but its ironic how i no more about the christian religin then most christians in my school i dont belive in blind belife theres no proof of god so i dont belive in him but i respect all religins its nice to find out how people live there lives
hoverbike
04-22-2006, 15:48
I think hell is a way for the church to intimidate people in to believing in god. People think of god when they are in trouble because they want something to make it all better. Christians do good deeds because they are christian? lol The only reason they do good deeds is from fear of hell.
I'm a Christian and I don't do good deeds to get to heaven. In fact, you keep saying that over and over again and keep ignoring the truth. I don't fear from Hell because Jesus already died and paid for my sins. I can't believe you keep saying that because it's wrong. Real Christian churchs don't intimidate people. Sounds like you have been reading some Da Vinci Code :lol: :roll: .
Pleasee who are you trying to convince, everyone know that christian do good deed simplely because they wanted to go to heaven and be accepted by god, ANd hope not to be sent to hell. you should know that lying its a sin and you shouldnt be doing that if you're a christian..
You don't know anything about Christianity period.
Also many Catholics dont knwo the history of their church, and the hipocriscy of the church's existance.
I agree 100%. However, this is where it gets messy.
Yet, most dont know what teh Caticism is, and what I find ironic about thi sis how most Atherists know more about teh Christian religion than Christians do.
Catholicism is not Christianity. It's to bad many people believe that.
dnt belive in god imm atheist but its ironic how i no more about the christian religin then most christians in my school i dont belive in blind belife theres no proof of god so i dont belive in him but i respect all religins its nice to find out how people live there lives
No spelling, No grammar, No....
Quote:
Yet, most dont know what teh Caticism is, and what I find ironic about thi sis how most Atherists know more about teh Christian religion than Christians do.
Catholicism is not Christianity. It's to bad many people believe that.
Yeh I did not edit it my fault, but yes I do realise that Christian religions comprise more than just Catholisim. But, you may speak for yourself when you say you dont do deeds just to get into heaven. However, many chrsitians do. Even the cleargy speaks of doing the rightious in order to earn entry on judgment day. O and no teh Catholic church is based upon a scare tactic. "If your not good you wont get into heaven." All religion is based on scare tactics to be fair tho. Even the most down to earth religions magnitudes such as Tau and many East religous philisophies state that "if we do not strive to trancend the world we will be nothing more than a blade of grass."
If you look at all religion in every culture ever they all are very politically based. Read the 10 commandments for instance the first three keep people believing in relgion the last seaven look more like goverment laws than religous code. Thu shall not kill steal, commit adlultury. All these things were and in most cases still are problems goverments face. You could make a very strong argument that throughout history religion's sole purpose is to enforce control over the masses.
hoverbike
04-22-2006, 18:56
If you look at all religion in every culture ever they all are very politically based. Read the 10 commandments for instance the first three keep people believing in relgion the last seaven look more like goverment laws than religous code. Thu shall not kill steal, commit adlultury. All these things were and in most cases still are problems goverments face.
It's the other way around, the Government got some of it's laws from the 10 commandments.
You could make a very strong argument that throughout history religion's sole purpose is to enforce control over the masses.
That's the government your talking about :P .
Actually many civilsations had these same general rules for the people, however governing bodies were based around corruption and the greed of the king. So, the pharrows in Egypt and things would justifuy those they killed. The Jews were teh group of people Moses lead in the desert. They created the Jewish religion. After leaving Egypt they had no rules and guid lines for their people. Moses came back form a mountain "alone" with rules that gave his people the structure they needed. The Bysintine code contains similar rules or the people, but they were in no connection with the Commandments. They hated the Jews adn everythign about them. They drew nothing from the ten commandments yet created similar code. This is because the issues the commandments cover are issues all goverments have to deal with. And if your saying The U.s. constitution is based on the 10 commandments then we are not seperated form teh church in effect violating the constitution itself.
AlexPallas
04-22-2006, 19:26
You could make a very strong argument that throughout history
religion's sole purpose is to enforce control over the masses.
That's the government your talking about :P .
there's really not that much a difference, how is nationalism any different from a religious code? either way you're psychologically masochistic. religion and government are for people that need to be told what to do.
narutoboy
04-22-2006, 19:41
i dnt belive in god imm atheist but its ironic how i no more about the christian religin then most christians in my school i dont belive in blind belife theres no proof of god so i dont belive in him but i respect all religins its nice to find out how people live there lives
there is no proof that italians were the first ones to make pizza except for an acient book that mentions it ,yet we still believe
there is no proof that christopher columbus reached the americas except for books that say he did, yet will still believe
so what I'm getting at is this, if we can believe all this other stuff without hard evidence except for being mentioned by someone else or in a book, then why cant we believe in God
How sad could this be, :lol: now the god boys are lying to themself saying that they are not doing good deed, reading god scritures, and go to church, simplely because they're afraid of hell. Hoping that god will welcome them into heaven.... :lol:
In the begining they all be bashing others religion and others peoples beliving saying that everyone whom doesnt follow the christian way and read the bible, or go to church will automatically be sent to hell... :lol:
NOW look at what they're all saying now ahhahah hahah Sad way of recovering from a hard fall ahhaha.. :lol:
I ROFL at them :lol:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What it's very sad is that Christianity or any others religion, fail to realize what they are doing it's noting more than just a selfishness good deed.
Helping others and being good or reading god scriptures, for an expectation to be noticeable and be accepted by god, also hoping to be welcome into heaven.
Quote:
They can't see what's outside even when the window it's completely open, but they could clearly see what's outside when the window it's completely shut.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AlexPallas
04-22-2006, 21:12
How sad could this be, :lol: now the god boys are lying to themself saying that they are not doing good deed, reading god scritures, and go to church, simplely because they're afraid of hell. Hoping that god will welcome them into heaven.... :lol:
In the begining they all be bashing others religion and others peoples beliving saying that everyone whom doesnt follow the christian way and read the bible, or go to church will automatically be sent to hell... :lol:
NOW look at what they're all saying now ahhahah hahah Sad way of recovering from a hard fall ahhaha.. :lol:
almost sounds like a game...am i wrong? lol.
collect points go to heaven? may the devil have mercy...
angelsky
04-22-2006, 21:26
[quote=Hidden]If you look at all religion in every culture ever they all are very politically based. Read the 10 commandments for instance the first three keep people believing in relgion the last seaven look more like goverment laws than religous code. Thu shall not kill steal, commit adlultury. All these things were and in most cases still are problems goverments face.
It's the other way around, the Government got some of it's laws from the 10 commandments.
I have to agree with him here , many government institutions were build upon the moral basis of religion , yes they were many laws before monotheist religions came to be , but it was until this religions came that they gave a person the dignity it deserved by making the claim that they were made in resemblance to their creator (i don't know proper english grammar so don't flame me for puting it like that ) .
narutoboy
04-22-2006, 22:01
How sad could this be, :lol: now the god boys are lying to themself saying that they are not doing good deed, reading god scritures, and go to church, simplely because they're afraid of hell. Hoping that god will welcome them into heaven.... :lol:
In the begining they all be bashing others religion and others peoples beliving saying that everyone whom doesnt follow the christian way and read the bible, or go to church will automatically be sent to hell... :lol:
NOW look at what they're all saying now ahhahah hahah Sad way of recovering from a hard fall ahhaha.. :lol:
I ROFL at them :lol:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What it's very sad is that Christianity or any others religion, fail to realize what they are doing it's noting more than just a selfishness good deed.
Helping others and being good or reading god scriptures, for an expectation to be noticeable and be accepted by god, also hoping to be welcome into heaven.
Quote:
They can't see what's outside even when the window it's completely open, but they could clearly see what's outside when the window it's completely shut.
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I rofl at your stupidity and immaturity. if you don't have anything consructive to say or anything to conrtibute to the thread then don't post. nobody was bashing anybodies religion in this thread, if that was the case then it would have been locked along time ago. The only person bashing is you by calling people "god boys". The Bible says inorder to get into heaven you must accept God/Jesus, no one said anything about having to go to church.
there is no proof that italians were the first ones to make pizza except for an acient book that mentions it ,yet we still believe
Actually, the first pizza was made by Italian immigrants in New York.
there is no proof that christopher columbus reached the americas except for books that say he did, yet will still believe
There are journals and documents created by Columbus, plus the support of recordings by King Ferdinand II and Queen Isabella of Spain.
The difference is the new testament, specificly the gospels which christanity is based upon, was wirtten by four guys with no affilation to Jesus. They lived 200 plus years after him and only wrote stories of Jesus passed through oral tradition. So, as far as I am conserned it is not a very acurate form of proof. Also unlike anything God related there is evidence of the discovery in teh world such as teh fact that there are people in habiting teh Americas. However, while God seemed to have a very constant and direct communication with his people for some reason after 2000 years of this contact he suddenly severs it in all forms. No more resurections, buring bushes, everything has stoped since the cannon was form and the new testament was written.
What it's very sad is that Christianity or any others religion, fail to realize what they are doing it's noting more than just a selfishness good deed.
Helping others and being good or reading god scriptures, for an expectation to be noticeable and be accepted by god, also hoping to be welcome into heaven.
I mean it is better than not doing it. Atleast they do good works, however I would like to see the number of Christians doing good works when they know they gain nothing but the satisfation of having helped someone. It would probably shrink. Most chrsitians dont in general act very Christian like anyway.
O and number one Christianity is not a religion, plus otehr than teh Chrsitian religions none of them belive the deeds you do get you into "heaven" other than Judism. All Eastern religions do not believe in heaven they belive you can achive a harmony with the world around you and in that harmon you will find true extacy.
The Bible says inorder to get into heaven you must accept God/Jesus, no one said anything about having to go to church.
Um as far as I know all forms of the Bible say this. The Torah and outer laying old testament defffiantly do. And those are all in teh Chrsitian bibles. However, Chrsitians have the New Testament and that pritty much contadicts just about everything in the Old testament. Wierd thing kinda like God is Bi-Polar. That or he jsut changes the way he states things to better infulence people. But yeah Catholism hevily supports the 10 comandments and theiur link to heaven. The fourth of which states "Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy."
AlexPallas
04-22-2006, 22:47
there is no proof that italians were the first ones to make pizza except for an acient book that mentions it ,yet we still believe
not very scientific
However, Chrsitians have the New Testament and that pritty much contadicts just about everything in the Old testament.
yeah the old testament was pretty harsh. just like the older times were rougher, it is reflected historically. a few direct condradictions, many indirect, but with every contradiction a new 'rule' is added as if to say 'cause i said so'.
narutoboy
04-22-2006, 23:04
Hidden:
actually no the first pizza wasnt made by the italian immigrant in new york. an ancient book mentions a pizza type food looooooong time before that.
"In the 3rd century BC, the first history of Rome, written by Marcus Porcius Cato, mentions a "flat round of dough dressed with olive oil, herbs, and honey baked on stones". Further evidence is found in Pompeii, the city "frozen in time" since AD 79, where archaeologists have excavated shops that closely resemble modern pizzerias."
like i said, the only proof comes from books. so again i ask if you can believe a book that claims that, then why cant you believe in God. God spoke through these people who wrote the Bible. oh and God never said you had to go to church, it says you have to come together with fellow worshippers, that does not mean church
Alex Pallas:
lol, i know its not scientific but those were the best examples i could give
AlexPallas
04-22-2006, 23:12
like i said, the only proof comes from books. so again i ask if you can believe a book that claims that, then why cant you believe in God. God spoke through these people who wrote the Bible
think about this for a second Naruto, couldn't humans just have written this themselves, if not more easily...the bible is just a compilation of ancient manuscripts (60-something i believe). it is much like the Iliad in its epic nature or even the more recent Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. parallel worlds seem very interesting, and we'll soon have one with the virtual capabilities in the future, but it's not really real. what are you really basing your faith on? a desire for supernaturallity and an eternal life? every religion in the world claims to have witnessed supernatural responses from their god, re-examine this, for the sake of your future and your mental mindset.
narutoboy
04-22-2006, 23:20
Alex Pallas:
nah I dont think so man. how do you explain the Bible codes, do you actually think regular men can actually do this? You can't deny the Bible codes to just be chance. if its not real then why is there evidence of noah's ark being in mt. ararat and what about Jesus, there are many accounts of him not just in the Bible. I also heard they have found the garden of eden somewhere in the Middle East. Tell me why you believe other books which speak about historical figures and events but you can't believe in the Bible? All the doubters say well those people could have lied in the Bible, well people could have lied in some of the other ancient books yet the world still believe those to be true
ps3 rocks
no, non believers believe in God when they're in trouble or some turmoil is going on. look at 9/11....
think about it were do cemicals come from and atoms.....think...science cant explain life... why is there excistince see there must be a creator in my opinion :D
AlexPallas
04-22-2006, 23:32
think about it were do cemicals come from and atoms.....think...science cant explain life... why is there excistince see there must be a creator in my opinion :D
devil's advocate
the bible was written in ancient Hebrew (besides a few books which were written in Greek), the coding comes from a translation (of which there are many of these for this book). as far as the Mt. Ararat thing goes nothing has been confirmed even so, say an enormous boat was found...whoever penned the books in the ancient times based their writings on something like every fiction book ever written. the term is pathological science, people still believe in cold fusion because of this! i could write a fiction book right now based around current events, nothing is proven. the best rebuttal i have heard from christians is that they believe in their god because they simply have faith. however this is also the weakest proof and is used by every religion. at the end of the day its either true or false. there is no in between with this subject.
narutoboy
04-22-2006, 23:38
alex pallas:
When I said Bible codes, I was talking about how it can predict the future http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code
You never answered my most important question, tell me why you believe other books which speak about historical figures and events but you can't believe in the Bible? also you never addressed the finding of the garden of eden in the middle east
Its true that it has been confirmed that it is "Noah's Ark" but there is more evidence then it being the actually Ark, then it not being it. the damn goverment over there won't let anybody in to investigate it.
AlexPallas
04-22-2006, 23:44
You never answered my most important question, tell me why you believe other books which speak about historical figures and events but you can't believe in the Bible?
with all due respect common sense tells me otherwise. i'll admit i'm biased since i hate the curch (as an organization/business). but something just tells me the idea of the bible is just an elaborate fantasy, call me crazy if you will. as far as qualifying the bible, any student of philosophy will tell you the burden of proof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof) is on your hands not mine. as far as believing in other past historical figures, i do for the most part (although history surely isn't exceptionally well documented), but my style of life would not be any different either way, so it's trivial.
lol do you really want to take your chances...really, think if he's real (witch i know he is) do you really want to bit the devils cage or be in eternal peace..why take a chance... and if you dont beleive whats happend when you die ghost??? By the way they are lost sprits that are stuck inbetween.
http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/
i like this video :D
AlexPallas
04-22-2006, 23:50
lol do you really want to take your chances...really, think ifhe's realtrue (witch i know he is) do you really want to bit the devils cage or be in eternal peace..why take a chance...
that's such a masochistic mindset, i hope you're joking. there is no chance, just use common sense, free yourself from yourself.
common sense is that we exsist how is there exsitence think hard now...how is there god...think harder :)
oh and this is to the sic people that dont belive lol this is a fun thread it should be renamed the flam thread lol :lol: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheismintro.html
narutoboy
04-22-2006, 23:56
lol do you really want to take your chances...really, think ifhe's realtrue (witch i know he is) do you really want to bit the devils cage or be in eternal peace..why take a chance...
that's such a masochistic mindset, i hope you're joking. there is no chance, just use common sense, free yourself from yourself.
no his comment actually makes alot of sense.
your athiest right? athiesim is where you believe in no higher power and that when you die you just rot. so if nothings going to happen to you (no judgent will come upon you) then why not believe in God? To this day, I still dont get why people would rather believe that when you die you rot rather then go to a better place (heaven)
EDIT: BLLJ
lol do you really want to take your chances...really, think ifhe's realtrue (witch i know he is) do you really want to bit the devils cage or be in eternal peace..why take a chance...
that's such a masochistic mindset, i hope you're joking. there is no chance, just use common sense, free yourself from yourself.
no his comment actually makes alot of sense.
your athiest right? athiesim is where you believe in no higher power and that when you die you just rot. so if nothings going to happen to you (no judgent will come upon you) then why not believe in God? To this day, I still dont get why people would rather believe that when you die you rot rather then go to a better place (heaven)
EDIT: BLLJ
thanks narutoboy he at least sees my view :D
AlexPallas
04-23-2006, 00:04
your athiest right? athiesim is where you believe in no higher power and that when you die you just rot. so if nothings going to happen to you (no judgent will come upon you) then why not believe in God?
i guess when it comes right down to it, religion isn't what makes us different...
i'm not taking any 'chance', you're just selling your free will for security.
well then, may the lord smile...and the devil have mercy.
They don't believe because they think they are the masters of their own life. Most "religions" require you to make certain sacrafices, so certain people feel as though they do not "need" to make those sacrafices, nor want to. Thus they do not believe.
Of course, there are many other reason, but that's a big one, I think.
explain this... the human spirit huhahahahah i got u there aye. what other animals have emotions like we do if evoltion is whats makes us better why do we cry, what other animal crys, why do we have emotions hard one to answer there :D
PeanutButterMunky
04-23-2006, 00:22
There are animals that cry, Deldwen. Elephants cry.
AlexPallas
04-23-2006, 00:22
explain this... the human spirit huhahahahah i got u there aye. what other animals have emotions like we do if evoltion is whats makes us better why do we cry, what other animal crys, why do we have emotions hard one to answer there :D
now we're playing the guessing game, like i said the burden of proof is not on my hands by any means and if you're saying animals do not have emotions you are sadly mistaken. try strangling a pup pitbull in front of its mother, i double-doggy-dare you.
AlexPallas wrote:
Deldwen wrote:
lol do you really want to take your chances...really, think ifhe's realtrue (witch i know he is) do you really want to bit the devils cage or be in eternal peace..why take a chance...
that's such a masochistic mindset, i hope you're joking. there is no chance, just use common sense, free yourself from yourself.
no his comment actually makes alot of sense.
your athiest right? athiesim is where you believe in no higher power and that when you die you just rot. so if nothings going to happen to you (no judgent will come upon you) then why not believe in God? To this day, I still dont get why people would rather believe that when you die you rot rather then go to a better place (heaven)
EDIT: BLLJ
Because it is all one item of control. Why do you think terroists give their lives for their cause. It is because they belive so heavily they are right. I dont need a crutch that can control me. I want to live my live and except what is in front of me. I dont need to bull shit myself into thinking that some higher power is going to give me salvation. I dont need to convince myslef that this world does nto matter cbecause there is another waiting for me. There is no onther world. No every lastign reward. I wan to tuly focus on this one. The world I have while I am here so I cann die knowing i lived my life well, not thinking I still have time to correct it. Besides I hope to god their is no heaven. After live my life and suffer though my death I jsut want to rest. No live in some perfect world. To me this is a perfect world. I dont want t o not be able to choose wrong. I want ot be able to do what I think at the time is right whether it is or not.
As for your bible code stuff. Please. You can over annalyes everything. The bible is a book it has no hidden code. Show that to teh Pope and I bet he would laugh at you.
Also you seem to confuse theorys with facts, narutoboy. The Ark has yet to be found jsut like some people think they know where the ten commandments are but they have never found them. Also jsut beause their is a ship obn a mountain does nto make it Noah's ship. Also, maybe there are things resembling a pizza in history, or places that look liek pizza parlors, but pizza like the pizza made with bread and tomato sause and cheese was made in New York City.
You also constantly refer to "The bible" whos bible there are a ton of versions of teh bible. do you mean the Catholic bible.
think about it were do cemicals come from and atoms.....think...science cant explain life... why is there excistince see there must be a creator in my opinion Very Happy
HUmanity is young. We know little of teh world. On scale ot the Earth's former in habitabnts who were here for billions of years. We are stupid. Just because we do not know the answer to your question rigth now does not mena the answer is in fact undeffinable. There is evidence of this in teh growth of teh Church. This is because the church has to constantly adapt change its ideas or people would nto follow it. AT one point the Church said teh world was flat, they said the sun reveolved around the Earth. Hwen they werer prooved wrong they changed. God's will rewirtten by man.
Let me leav you with this. If there has to be a creator. Who then created God?
AlexPallas
04-23-2006, 00:28
Let me leav you with this. If there has to be a creator. Who then created God?
this is getting really stupid really quick. if anyone is going to respond to this, please read this philosophical lesson on irreducible complexity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducable_complexity) first
this argument doesn't work either way
Narutoboy, I think you reallie need mental help... :lol:
AlexPallas
04-23-2006, 00:40
Narutoboy, I think you reallie need mental help... :lol:
you really need a spelling lesson.
narutoboy
04-23-2006, 00:41
Hidden:
Hidden, your philosophy and the way you think is weird as fuck but I’ll respect it.
We were talking about pizza period. nobody said anything about just modern day. im not confusing facts with theories, i realize the examples i brought about havent been proven. I don’t think your familiar with the Bible code, please read up on it. People have found predictions of the future made in the Bible, like 9/11 and hurricane Katrina. You see the thing about noah’s ark and the ten commandments are very different. With noah’s ark and mt Ararat, we know for a fact that some kind of massive boat structure is up there.
Alexpallas:
lol good one
No bypassing the curse filter please. Do it again and you'll be getting a skill point deduction. ~Cera.
eeerm okay, i didnt know that was bypassing the curse filter since i didnt even use the word..... :?
AlexPallas
04-23-2006, 00:51
Hidden:
Hidden, your philosophy and the way you think is weird as f* but I’ll respect it.
We were talking about pizza period. nobody said anything about just modern day. im not confusing facts with theories, i realize the examples i brought about havent been proven. I don’t think your familiar with the Bible code, please read up on it. People have found predictions of the future made in the Bible, like 9/11 and hurricane Katrina You see the thing about noah’s ark and the ten commandments are very different. With noah’s ark and mt Ararat, we know for a fact that some kind of massive boat structure is up there.
interpretation of prediction is a science within itself. the only thing the bible says about the future is in the final book (the book of revalations) which is only supposed to take place over the last 7 years of life on earth. many religions have 'claimed' to have forseen the future, but there is no proof. it's all pathological research. at least the Nostradamus prediction of september 11th (http://urbanlegends.about.com/cs/historical/a/nostradamus.htm) seemed shockingly accurate (in an obscure way) but it's still fake. the world has been around a LONG time, what prediction won't be eventually fulfilled, this really isn't proof Naruto. like i said the best thing any religion can bank on is faith, since in reality it doesn't make sense.
narutoboy
04-23-2006, 00:54
Alexpallas:
thats why i said read up on the bible code and its predictions of the future, because i dont think you get it (no offense). You wont find the Bible out right predicting the future, its a secret code. i think you group certain letters together, im not really sure. its wierd because nobody can find the codes before an event has happened
AlexPallas
04-23-2006, 01:01
its wierd because nobody can find the codes before an event has happened
i know what you mean, i've heard the 'bible code' philosophy years ago. you need to research pathological science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_science) which readily explains why 'nobody can find the codes before an event has happened'.
narutoboy
04-23-2006, 01:02
its wierd because nobody can find the codes before an event has happened
i know what you mean, i've heard the 'bible code' philosophy years ago. you need to research pathological science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_science) which readily explains why 'nobody can find the codes before an event has happened'.
ok, ill check out the link you have provided.
Narutoboy:
I always respect your beliefs because I dont know that they are not true. As for the Bible Codes. Things like this in my opion aare scams. People can truly connect anything in some way or another. The bible is full of mysteries. Contradictions. If the bible is right we are all going to die in teh year 2007. Now, teh Myans also said judgement day would be in 2007. Wierd conisidence, yet some how I doubt the world is going to end more because two peoples said it would end in 2007.[/b]
narutoboy
04-23-2006, 01:32
Narutoboy:
I always respect your beliefs because I dont know that they are not true. As for the Bible Codes. Things like this in my opion aare scams. People can truly connect anything in some way or another. The bible is full of mysteries. Contradictions. If the bible is right we are all going to die in teh year 2007. Now, teh Myans also said judgement day would be in 2007. Wierd conisidence, yet some how I doubt the world is going to end more because two peoples said it would end in 2007.[/b]
I don't think its a scam because the method they use to get the codes is very consistent. the predictions arent vague eiter, they are pretty exact. im not saying your wrong but where did the Bible say the world would end in 2007, i havent heard that before. i thought God said he would never reveal this
AlexPallas
04-23-2006, 01:37
Narutoboy:
I don't think its a scam because the method they use to get the codes is very consistent. the predictions arent vague eiter, they are pretty exact. im not saying your wrong but where did the Bible say the world would end in 2007, i havent heard that before. i thought God said he would never reveal this
bible code isn't consistent at all. people qualify the past by using this false metholdology of bible code, that's the reason why no one can predict using bible text, they can only guess. any detective can find a connection if he looks hard enough. i'd like to see your research on this.
ps: wtf are you talking about Hidden? 2007, where did yo come up with that number?
Reminder for the god boys... :lol: ahhahah ahhahah sad peoples ahahha
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What it's very sad is that Christianity or any others religion, fail to realize what they are doing it's noting more than just a selfishness good deed.
Helping others and being good or reading god scriptures, for an expectation to be noticeable and be accepted by god, also hoping to be welcome into heaven.
Quote:
They can't see what's outside even when the window it's completely open, but they could clearly see what's outside when the window it's completely shut.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
narutoboy
04-23-2006, 02:37
Narutoboy:
I don't think its a scam because the method they use to get the codes is very consistent. the predictions arent vague eiter, they are pretty exact. im not saying your wrong but where did the Bible say the world would end in 2007, i havent heard that before. i thought God said he would never reveal this
bible code isn't consistent at all. people qualify the past by using this false metholdology of bible code, that's the reason why no one can predict using bible text, they can only guess. any detective can find a connection if he looks hard enough. i'd like to see your research on this.
ps: wtf are you talking about Hidden? 2007, where did yo come up with that number?
what? no guessing happens with the Bible code. i dont think you understood what i meant by consistent. i mean there method of getting the code is chance or somekind of fluke, if you do it you will get the same results. ill gather up some some links for you, im watching ultimate avengers right now so dont get anxious.
yea, i would really like know where hidden got 2007 from. i know the mayans said this but not the bible.
Dumbo:
lol, just stop posting :lol:
your stuck on this selfishness good deed thing like a fat kid at a buffet. just stop, we all have moved on by now....incase you havent noticed
AlexPallas
04-23-2006, 02:53
what? no guessing happens with the Bible code. i dont think you understood what i meant by consistent. i mean there method of getting the code is chance or somekind of fluke, if you do it you will get the same results. ill gather up some some links for you, im watching ultimate avengers right now so dont get anxious.
bible code is not consistent at all. is basically drawing conclusions by using random, meaningless mathmatical codes. if i took the first three letters from the first three sentences (what? no guessing... i don't think) you get wni, which can be re-arranged to form the word 'win'. bible code uses more involved mathmatical equations to render sentences. the more involved the equation, the harder some pseudoscientist tried to find a connection. of course actual sentences are formed in bible code, however this is inevitable if you look at the size of the bible, thats why a parallel Torah Code exists. if you're basing your faith on some conclusion drawn from connecting letters from different sentences you should just become a mathmatician. this gets us no closer to the PS3's forum answer to all the questions of the universe. pseudoscience, it doesn't prove whether or not god exists anyway, the predictions are always drawn afterwards, as you said, and even so they are still too obscure. you also have to keep in mind that this code is rendered from a translated book! you can translate any number of ways! not only does this add to the likeliness of a random code surfacing, but a translator decides which words are placed where.
Reminder for the god boys... :lol: ahhahah ahhahah sad peoples ahahha
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What it's very sad is that Christianity or any others religion, fail to realize what they are doing it's noting more than just a selfishness good deed.
Helping others and being good or reading god scriptures, for an expectation to be noticeable and be accepted by god, also hoping to be welcome into heaven.
Quote:
They can't see what's outside even when the window it's completely open, but they could clearly see what's outside when the window it's completely shut.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One more personal insult out of you and I'll make sure you get banned.
Everyone here has been accepting and rational of others views, if you think you can get away with making personal insults at others, then you're sadly mistaken.
AlexPallas
04-23-2006, 05:26
*ouch* watch out for the gestapo
And to think I just gave you a skill point deduction yesterday. 3 day temp ban this time- when a mod says no more insults, it means no more insults. ~Cera.
hoverbike
04-23-2006, 07:39
One more personal insult out of you and I'll make sure you get banned.
I was going to say he should watch himself.
*ouch* watch out for the gestapo
Now your calling the Moderator "The_One" a Nazi. And he is doing the right thing too. Wow.
I wouldn't trust the Bible Codes narutoboy, 3 people I have spoken to say it's rubbish and I'm still researching it. The Bible Codes are neat but they predict certain dates which doesn't always happen.
Another thing is humans couldn't have written the bible because you would understand that humans don't make up laws that say you can't have sex before marriage. That's one hard law to go by!!
AlexPallas
04-23-2006, 07:45
One more personal insult out of you and I'll make sure you get banned.
I was going to say he should watch himself.
*ouch* watch out for the gestapo
Now your calling the Moderator "The_One" a Nazi. And he is doing the right thing too. Wow.
I wouldn't trust the Bible Codes narutoboy, 3 people I have spoken to say it's rubbish and I'm still researching it. The Bible Codes are neat but they predict certain dates which doesn't always happen.
Another thing is humans couldn't have written the bible because you would understand that humans don't make up laws that say you can't have sex before marriage. That's one hard law to go by!!
*tumbleweed*
what society doesn't embrace marriage? even african tribes et cetera practice forms of marriage, and it doesn't get more basic than that. now in america today, divorce is more common, its inevitable people will stop getting married (with 50% of marriages ending in divorce). god exists because it's too hard for a man to control his...well you get the point, be more original, don't rely on such a primal response. your shallow layer of soft sedimentary proof has been flushed, re-examine this man; there is more at stake then just a little argument, don't let some imaginary being dictate your life.
hoverbike
04-23-2006, 07:59
*tumbleweed*
what society doesn't embrace marriage? even african tribes et cetera practice forms of marriage, and it doesn't get more basic than that. now in america today, divorce is more common, its inevitable people will stop getting married (with 50% of marriages ending in divorce). god exists because it's too hard for a man to control his...well you get the point, be more original, don't rely on such a primal response.
In today's society everyone just likes sex and then maybe get marrided afterwards.
your shallow layer of soft sedimentary proof has been flushed, re-examine this man; there is more at stake then just a little argument, don't let some imaginary being dictate your life
God isn't dictating my life but let's say he was for a moment, is there anything wrong with that? Not really, your a better person anyways so there is no need to say that. Another thing is God isn't imaginary like you hope to be the case. There has to be a creator of our Universe one way or another. That statement I made about marriage is just a small example of why God exists.
Narutoboy:
I don't think its a scam because the method they use to get the codes is very consistent. the predictions arent vague eiter, they are pretty exact. im not saying your wrong but where did the Bible say the world would end in 2007, i havent heard that before. i thought God said he would never reveal this
bible code isn't consistent at all. people qualify the past by using this false metholdology of bible code, that's the reason why no one can predict using bible text, they can only guess. any detective can find a connection if he looks hard enough. i'd like to see your research on this.
ps: wtf are you talking about Hidden? 2007, where did yo come up with that number?
what? no guessing happens with the Bible code. i dont think you understood what i meant by consistent. i mean there method of getting the code is chance or somekind of fluke, if you do it you will get the same results. ill gather up some some links for you, im watching ultimate avengers right now so dont get anxious.
yea, i would really like know where hidden got 2007 from. i know the mayans said this but not the bible.
Dumbo:
lol, just stop posting :lol:
your stuck on this selfishness good deed thing like a fat kid at a buffet. just stop, we all have moved on by now....incase you havent noticed
ANd you still stuck in fairyland... :lol:
http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/rapture-year-timeline.htm
http://www.progressiveu.org/223227-end-of-the-world-in-2007
Ummm.... I found this link for you Narutoboy and AlexPallas. To tell you the truth I dont read about this crap. Thats what it is it is all crap. I Know the Myans said it was 2012 not 2007 that was a mistake by me. I know that they clearly stated that The Lost City would rise up out of teh water and the world would be in judgment. However, I dont understand how they add the end of the world in the bible up. In some way there is I have heard it from many sources. People either say it is 2007 or 2012.
W.e. if the world ends in 2007 I hope it is only on my ps3.
GhostOvAlex
04-23-2006, 17:34
*ouch* watch out for the gestapo
And to think I just gave you a skill point deduction yesterday. 3 day temp ban this time- when a mod says no more insults, it means no more insults. ~Cera.
thank you for proving my point dear cera. your spirit does not embody that of sony, you're too closed minded, not free spirited. peace. i'll just reincarnate if i ever come back...jesus style.
Too bad, now it's a permaban. ~ Lp Chris XII
narutoboy
04-23-2006, 18:41
http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/rapture-year-timeline.htm
http://www.progressiveu.org/223227-end-of-the-world-in-2007
Ummm.... I found this link for you Narutoboy and AlexPallas. To tell you the truth I dont read about this crap. Thats what it is it is all crap. I Know the Myans said it was 2012 not 2007 that was a mistake by me. I know that they clearly stated that The Lost City would rise up out of teh water and the world would be in judgment. However, I dont understand how they add the end of the world in the bible up. In some way there is I have heard it from many sources. People either say it is 2007 or 2012.
W.e. if the world ends in 2007 I hope it is only on my ps3.
the Bible says this will not be revealed. Yes, you are right its crap because its not true and I definitely don't believe what the mayans think.
"The big debate is not really whether there is a rapture, but what is the timing of it. It would seem from this debate that it is impossible to know for sure."
AlexPallas
while on "vacation" read the Bible :P
Dumbo:
actually i was man, i was reading a book on evolution just now.
http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/rapture-year-timeline.htm
http://www.progressiveu.org/223227-end-of-the-world-in-2007
Ummm.... I found this link for you Narutoboy and AlexPallas. To tell you the truth I dont read about this crap. Thats what it is it is all crap. I Know the Myans said it was 2012 not 2007 that was a mistake by me. I know that they clearly stated that The Lost City would rise up out of teh water and the world would be in judgment. However, I dont understand how they add the end of the world in the bible up. In some way there is I have heard it from many sources. People either say it is 2007 or 2012.
W.e. if the world ends in 2007 I hope it is only on my ps3.
the Bible says this will not be revealed. Yes, you are right its crap because its not true and I definitely don't believe what the mayans think.
"The big debate is not really whether there is a rapture, but what is the timing of it. It would seem from this debate that it is impossible to know for sure."
AlexPallas
while on "vacation" read the Bible :P
Dumbo:
actually i was man, i was reading a book on evolution just now.
I think the book cover title evolution, but the real hard cover title "The Holy Bible" ROFL :lol:
adamba4e
04-23-2006, 22:23
I don't know if this has been mentioned before in this thread, but there was a time that if you were not a Christain or Catholic you would be killed. So it was either believe or die. That is why most Spanish are Catholic/Christain. People were far from educated back then, this is a time when people believed the world was flat and that there were witches and wizards. Although I do believe in God, just thought I would mention that.
hoverbike
04-23-2006, 22:28
I don't know if this has been mentioned before in this thread, but there was a time that if you were not a Christain or Catholic you would be killed. So it was either believe or die. That is why most Spanish are Catholic/Christain. People were far from educated back then, this is a time when people believed the world was flat and that there were witches and wizards. Although I do believe in God, just thought I would mention that.
Yes, some groups and churchs did do that in the past and they weren't really believers in God. They will be going to Hell for what they have done because a real chirstain would not do that. Some of these "groups" who made it law to be a Christen or Catholic would burn as many bibles as possible, how stupid is that? They weren't saved by Jesus Christ at all.
narutoboy
04-23-2006, 23:56
http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/rapture-year-timeline.htm
http://www.progressiveu.org/223227-end-of-the-world-in-2007
Ummm.... I found this link for you Narutoboy and AlexPallas. To tell you the truth I dont read about this crap. Thats what it is it is all crap. I Know the Myans said it was 2012 not 2007 that was a mistake by me. I know that they clearly stated that The Lost City would rise up out of teh water and the world would be in judgment. However, I dont understand how they add the end of the world in the bible up. In some way there is I have heard it from many sources. People either say it is 2007 or 2012.
W.e. if the world ends in 2007 I hope it is only on my ps3.
the Bible says this will not be revealed. Yes, you are right its crap because its not true and I definitely don't believe what the mayans think.
"The big debate is not really whether there is a rapture, but what is the timing of it. It would seem from this debate that it is impossible to know for sure."
AlexPallas
while on "vacation" read the Bible :P
Dumbo:
actually i was man, i was reading a book on evolution just now.
I think the book cover title evolution, but the real hard cover title "The Holy Bible" ROFL :lol:
nope it wasnt the holy bible and no the cover title doesn't say "Evolution", thats would be a little to vague don't ya think :roll:
adamb4e:
dude, just because people have the christian or catholic title doesnt make them perfect or without sin. anyways that was a looooong time ago, our world is much more "civilized" and people/religions have changed.
What part of don't insult other members do you not understand? Temp ban ~ PBM ~
narutoboy
04-24-2006, 00:04
Do not comment on the post, please. ~ PBM ~
fykusfire
04-24-2006, 19:27
If Bible codes are true how do you explain this?
McKay promptly produced an ELS analysis of Moby-*expletive deleted* predicting not only Indira Ghandi's assassination, but the assassinations of Martin Luther King, John F. Kennedy, Abraham Lincoln, and Yitzhak Rabin, as well as the death of Diana, Princess of Wales. Mathematician David Thomas did an ELS on Genesis and found the words "code" and "bogus" close together not once but 60 times. What are the odds of that happening?
Mathematician David Thomas did an ELS on Genesis and found the words "code" and "bogus" close together not once but 60 times. What are the odds of that happening?
What's particularly amusing about this is that God DOES have a sense of humor. We see this in the Bible numerous times. Well, it's like He knew that people would think that there was some secret code embedded into the Bible so He just wanted these 'seekers' to find out that it is in fact false. So He put 'bogus' along with 'code' to show that or to show others who get confused what's real and what's not (in this case, the code is blatantly false and the Bible is the real Word, that's the only thing you should be studying).
http://skepdic.com/bibcode.html
Also see:
http://www.csicop.org/si/9711/bible-code.html
And this:
http://www.letusreason.org/current24.htm
A Hebrew professor from Hebrew university did the same ELS with the novel war and peace in Hebrew. And Australian professor did the same with the English version of the Encyclopedia Brittanica and they were able to do the same. Why because any book that is thick enough with someone looking for words and phrases backwards forwards sideways you can find just about anything. They often misspell the Hebrew word to find what they need. If it was a true message it would be consistent that every 7th letter or 20th would spell out something.
Let me give you a illustration: what if I dropped a million toothpicks on the floor and it spelled out something accurate what would that prove? That within toothpicks there is an inherent intelligence or that the odds of chance materialize by sheer numbers. This is what is happening with the scrambling of the Bible code.
There is belief that false prophets will get their 'revelations' from this Bible Code and it does make sense.
From the last link:
Do you know that other peoples names that are enemies of God are found more in certain texts than Jesus’. What about the code saying there are false prophets, have they found any? Get ready --Here come the Bible code prophets. Don’t be surprised if we start to see false prophets speaking their new revelations from the Bible codes.
Also from that last link:
Do we go against the literal interpretation of what God has already spoken to an alternative of reading what is hidden from the eye of man, revealed by the mechanics of the computer. Are we learning the future by secret codes that God has never told to pursue. Then the Bible becomes a book of divination. It is clear God has spoken his prophecies that are concerned with Israel, and while he does give some specific people attention in no way does he name them or give us dates according to our calendar.
Isa. 45:19: “I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth; I did not say to the seed of Jacob, `Seek Me in vain'; I, the LORD, speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.” How did he do so? With the clear teaching of the Scripture from the time it was written. Since they have a hard time teaching it the next thing is to just replace it.
Isa 48:16:”Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning” This refutes any entertainment of new interpretations of scripture, what is being promoted in the code is decidedly Divination
I'm not going to get into a full fledged argument about this, just want to see your response.
That means one of two things only really. I already know that Rips and Witsum used the exact same ELS structure that was used in Moby Dick and the like, and found that they were juicing their numbers. There is only one structure, based upon ancient Hebrew numerology (named Gematria), that can be used. I could assign a search string of a random amount of numbers and find a message in anything the way that you mention above. However, using the Gematria, that most likely wouldn't occur.
The second part is just for the sake of pondering it. This could also mean that all men have the inspired hand of God. Which would be my contention anyway. For you see, man acts as if we own God. Talk to a Christian, and you get a Christian-centric answer and view of God and God's people. Talk to a Muslim, you get an Allah-centric view of God and Islam. Talk to a Jew, and you get a Yahweh-centric view of God and Judaism. What you won't get, is a universal truth about the God that all of those people worship, that God created us, and chose us. Not the other way around. I simply don't have the time to expend here on the PS3 forums to go into detail proving God.
If you really want to know, go to:
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=24520537&union_id=798
This is a thread co-created by me and a Nazarite elder on the subject. If you really want to make comments that challenge the codes, you may want to start here first before you try to discount something that is impossible to discount.
Shrinnan
04-24-2006, 21:17
I'm not going to get into an argument about it, just wanted to see your response. I don't need any code to prove that God exists as God shows that people of faith don't need to see anything.
hoverbike
04-24-2006, 21:34
I'm not going to get into an argument about it, just wanted to see your response. I don't need any code to prove that God exists as God shows that people of faith don't need to see anything.
That's not the main point about bible codes. If you don't state why Bible Codes are fake then I have no way of knowing if they are true or not. I have a hard time figuring it out. Those verses may not apply to bible codes since the bible codes don't need to be known by humans. I call it a extra tad-bit.
Shrinnan
04-24-2006, 21:46
That's not the main point about bible codes. If you don't state why Bible Codes are fake then I have no way of knowing if they are true or not. I have a hard time figuring it out. Those verses may not apply to bible codes since the bible codes don't need to be known by humans. I call it a extra tad-bit.
How do they not apply? God doesn't speak in secret. Period. If Bible Codes were real than God would be speaking in secret. He's open about everything.
Also notice where code and bogus were found 60 times throughout the Bible, it's like God jokingly put that in there so people would find that.
Here's a way to put it, if you're not sure about it than just listen to the true Word, don't worry about something that you don't need to know anyway.
hoverbike
04-24-2006, 21:55
How do they not apply? God doesn't speak in secret. Period. If Bible Codes were real than God would be speaking in secret.
Also notice where code and bogus were found 60 times throughout the Bible, it's like God jokingly put that in there so people would find that.
Your missing my point again, it's not a important part of the bible if it's true. People do not have to learn about bible codes or even know they exist! However, the word of God needs to get out throughout the world so people can get saved. God would be speaking in secret if the bible codes are true however, that's why bible codes are not important. Did you get the bible code finder software to get those "bogus" codes? There is also a Bible Code that says the codes are true.
Shrinnan
04-24-2006, 21:56
You're missing my point. If God says He doesn't speak in secret than HE DOESN'T SPEAK IN SECRET. He's not a God that goes against what He says, if He says He doesn't do something than He DOESN'T do it no matter how important something is. That's how you know the Bible codes are false. It's not a matter of importance, He's open about EVERYTHING. Why would He give us something that we wouldn't need to find anyway?
The people that I linked to previously used the same technique to find that bogus and code thing.
There is also a Bible Code that says the codes are true.
Because you can look for what you want with Bible Codes.
There's also this little tidbit:
Drosnin uses many methods to improve the odds of "impossible-by-chance" linkages. For one, he uses horizontal words taken directly from the original text. For example, when Drosnin found "Clinton" linked to "president," the word "president" was just the Hebrew word for "chief," taken from its actual context in the original Bible. Secondly, Drosnin found some hidden dates referring to the Hebrew calendar; for example, Gulf War activity on January 18, 1991, was found in the words "3rd Shevat." But, he found other dates referring to the Gregorian calendar, such as that of the Oklahoma City bombing, which was linked in the Bible by the hidden date "Day 19," and interpreted as a reference to both April 19, 1995, the date of the bombing, and April 19, 1993 (Waco). And finally, Drosnin takes full advantage of the eccentricities of the Hebrew language, in which words can be condensed and letters occasionally dropped.
Source: http://www.csicop.org/si/9711/bible-code.html
im sorry i have to bring this up im not insulting but how masny christans belive in the secret bibles the hidden gosples like the gosple of judas mary madilin and how many people belive in the holy grail we have as much proof of all these as we do of god so do we belive them as well (yes i brought this up to my re techer and she just froze :) )
hoverbike
04-25-2006, 02:12
im sorry i have to bring this up im not insulting but how masny christans belive in the secret bibles the hidden gosples like the gosple of judas mary madilin and how many people belive in the holy grail we have as much proof of all these as we do of god so do we belive them as well (yes i brought this up to my re techer and she just froze :) )
It's just fake texts written a very long time ago. Just because someone dug up some book that's falling apart doesn't make it part of the bible or the truth. The Gospel of Judas is the dumbest one of all, not only is it fake and used by the Devil to fool people, it also says God didn't create the earth!! There is a verse in the bible that says God would not hide the bible or his word. There is also a bible code saying that the Gospel of Judas is fake and evil. However, bible codes can't be trusted at all. Jesus did not marry Mary Madeline :lol: . I have never heard of the Holy Grail. Your teacher froze because she may not know much about anything.
Shrinnan
04-25-2006, 03:01
The reason it's not in the Bible is just that. It's fake. My Pastor put it this way, when they were creating the Bible humans may have had their own plan but only God can create the outcome.
im sorry i have to bring this up im not insulting but how masny christans belive in the secret bibles the hidden gosples like the gosple of judas mary madilin and how many people belive in the holy grail we have as much proof of all these as we do of god so do we belive them as well (yes i brought this up to my re techer and she just froze :) )
It's just fake texts written a very long time ago. Just because someone dug up some book that's falling apart doesn't make it part of the bible or the truth. The Gospel of Judas is the dumbest one of all, not only is it fake and used by the Devil to fool people, it also says God didn't create the earth!! There is a verse in the bible that says God would not hide the bible or his word. There is also a bible code saying that the Gospel of Judas is fake and evil. However, bible codes can't be trusted at all. Jesus did not marry Mary Madeline :lol: . I have never heard of the Holy Grail. Your teacher froze because she may not know much about anything.
so you belive texts written over 200 years after christ but the gosples found are written around 50AD i no witch ones ild trust more.god didnt choise the gosples the head of the church did,where does it say hell not hid texts that hide any infomation. what would you wont the truth or making the religin look good if you were in his situation.the gosple of judas only has from when judas met christ to the final hours of christ it doesnt have any infomation of before that your thinking of the sitanic bible about that god didnt create the world.how do you no that jesus and mary madeline didnt marry there are very big gaps in the bible we dont no nothing from inbetween them. the only proof we have that they did is the gosples that were found and the only proof they didnt is a bible. its even evidance on ether side and before anyone says mary madilin was a prostitue wheres your proof it doesnt say that in the bible at all. if you need to see other side of things national geographic 8 o'clock tonight has the knights templore in legand the worrors of god. she froze because she couldn't answer. be open minded you might find there alot of evidance for christ but agenst the bibles story. i no i did and found that god goes agenst himself alot in the new and old testiment so i stoped beliveing.
and the holy grial is a legand ether the direct blood line of christ or the cup witch got christs blood at the crucifixion.
@ ZeroGravity:god didn't make the bible the church did look up in my post you'll see and think like the head of the church
PeanutButterMunky
04-25-2006, 12:32
You really need to learn how to use proper punctuation.
You really need to learn how to use proper punctuation.
ye i keep trying im just not the best in english for punctuation or spelling still on for getting an A in gcse so i'm cool hey can u blame my im on for A* in ICT
PeanutButterMunky
04-25-2006, 12:43
Sure, I understand that. But it's extremely hard to understand a post when the entire paragraph meshes together in one sentence. Try using periods and such to create a pause in thought so the reader has time to comprehend your posts.
ok ill get onto editing shouldn't take to long
fykusfire
04-25-2006, 18:56
Ported from Kantaroth's post at Gamespot:
"Here's another cool example for the codes.
This is based on the Equidistant Letter Sequence.
Israel
If you search for the word Israel in intervals of -100 to +100 looking @ the 1st 10,000 letters of Genesis, it only occurs twice: intervals of 7 & 50 (to a Jew those are significant numbers).
Genesis 1:31 – 2:3
o Kiddush, the Sabbath observance
o Jubilee Year, after 7 Shmitas
Some might try to explain this as a statistical accident, but when you start adding up all these "accidents" you start to see that these could only be explained by the hand of God. The Bible really is the Word of God."
fykusfire
04-25-2006, 18:57
Ported from Kantaroth's post at Gamespot:
"Here's another check for the "Pro" codes column.
Equidistant Letter Sequence?
- you can hide a message in another sentence by looking at every nth equidistant letter.
- Most people will use a computer to search for these, however you can do it mechanically, though much harder.
Genesis
In the Hebrew, go to the fisrt t, go 49 letters and you spell Torah in Hebrew.
Exodus
same thing happens, every 49th letter, spell Torah. (Happening twice blows the statistical accident theories)
Leviticus
It Doesn’t happen. Anti-codes people will say, "See it was just a coincidence."
Numbers
It happens again w/ 49th letter but oddly it spells Torah backwards
Deuteronomy
Again, same thing happens, spells Torah backwards
So let's look again @ Leviticus
It’s not a 49 letter interval, but what we find is @ a 7 letter interval (square root of 49) spells YHWH
Genesis Exodus Leviticus Numbers Deuteronomy
TORH à TORH à YHWH ß HROT ß HROT
The TORH always points to YHWH!
- There are people who will argue that this is just a statistical accident.
- This is the fingerprint of the H.S.
- We find things like this laced all throughout the Bible.
How cool is our God and how cool is His Written Word?!"
fykusfire
04-25-2006, 18:57
Ported from Kantaroth's post at Gamespot:
"Another check mark in the plus column for the Codes.
In Isiah 53 you have encrypted the people that were at the foot of the cross
The Disciples mourn Simon
Peter Thaddaeus
Matthew Matthias
John Mary
Andrew Mary
Philip Mary
Thomas Salome
James Joseph
James
Even more amazing the name that doesn’t show up, Judas, which should as the letters to make it are highly present w/in the Hebrew but statistically absent showing this wasn't a fluke but deliberately orchestrated by God.
There is no way anyone can convince me that Bible is just another sacred writing like the other religions have."
fykusfire
04-25-2006, 18:59
Ported from Kantaroth's post at Gamespot:
"Here's another interesting bit of information to place in the Plus column for the authenticity of Bible codes.
Universal Cosmic Constants
- Two Dimensionless Constants
o Π = 3.1416 (same number regardless of metric, standard)
o e = 2.7183
- Two Principal Creation passages
o Genesis 1:1
o John 1:1
o Genesis 1:1 In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
The number of letters x the product of the letters
The number of words x the product of the words
= 3.1416 x 10(17 power) = Π
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was w/ God, and the Word was God.
the number of letters x the product of the letters
the number of words x the product of the words
= 2.7183 x 10(65 power) = e
It doesn’t prove anything exactly,, but it’s interesting that wherever you turn in the Biblical text you discover properties that clearly went beyond the understanding of the people that wrote it. This is the fingerprint of the H.S.
(All notes from How We Got our Bible by Chuck Missler, khouse.org)"
Fykusfire ever heard of the "EDIT" button...
so you belive texts written over 200 years after christ but the gosples found are written around 50AD i no witch ones ild trust more.god didnt choise the gosples the head of the church did,where does it say hell not hid texts that hide any infomation. what would you wont the truth or making the religin look good if you were in his situation.the gosple of judas only has from when judas met christ to the final hours of christ it doesnt have any infomation of before that your thinking of the sitanic bible about that god didnt create the world.how do you no that jesus and mary madeline didnt marry there are very big gaps in the bible we dont no nothing from inbetween them. the only proof we have that they did is the gosples that were found and the only proof they didnt is a bible. its even evidance on ether side and before anyone says mary madilin was a prostitue wheres your proof it doesnt say that in the bible at all. if you need to see other side of things national geographic 8 o'clock tonight has the knights templore in legand the worrors of god. she froze because she couldn't answer. be open minded you might find there alot of evidance for christ but agenst the bibles story. i no i did and found that god goes agenst himself alot in the new and old testiment so i stoped beliveing.
and the holy grial is a legand ether the direct blood line of christ or the cup witch got christs blood at the crucifixion.
Yeah truth, the closest to Jesus was John, no not like the apostile as some commonly think. The John that wrote the Gospel wrote around 150 something years after Jesus died and the rest are between that and 500 years after him. This is the reson most of the bible is metaphorical. People mistake this all the time. Just because it happened that way in the bible means noting. It is just to teach a point. The life of Jesus is semi represented, because all of them used a scroll that was written in like Latin that outlines Jesus's life.
What people also dont realise is the church hand picked every book you read in the bible to back their crediblity. You have to understand that while the chuch refutes a book it does not mean it is not true. If Jesus was human he would have had sexual desires. It is part of being humna and that is a fact to which all Christians not just catholics claim. So, before saying Jesus did not marry Mary Magdiline understand it could very well be true.
As for the bible codes I will say it again. You can prove anything you try to find. Certain very gifted scientists can disproove gravity, by omiting parts of studies and experaments. The bible is long and very misunderstood it would be easy for someone with an adgenda and a knolwege of the bibels langages and the bible as a whole to find things like the bible codes.
If yours still not convinced it is crap. Religious magnitudes belive god gave you the gift of free will. To say that God could predict the outcome of everyones decions form over 1500 years ago is ludacris. If they are real they disprove Christanity. Free will is the sole baisis of the Christian religons. Also the Catholic chuch denies the ability to predict the future for this very reason. So, what you are preching is anti-semetic and some would say you would burn jsut for that. If you lived furing the iquisition you would litterally burn. So, before you preach crap think about the reprocussions of it. No point trying to proove something that disprooves your entire point thats just stupid.
Fykusfire ever heard of the "EDIT" button...
so you belive texts written over 200 years after christ but the gosples found are written around 50AD i no witch ones ild trust more.god didnt choise the gosples the head of the church did,where does it say hell not hid texts that hide any infomation. what would you wont the truth or making the religin look good if you were in his situation.the gosple of judas only has from when judas met christ to the final hours of christ it doesnt have any infomation of before that your thinking of the sitanic bible about that god didnt create the world.how do you no that jesus and mary madeline didnt marry there are very big gaps in the bible we dont no nothing from inbetween them. the only proof we have that they did is the gosples that were found and the only proof they didnt is a bible. its even evidance on ether side and before anyone says mary madilin was a prostitue wheres your proof it doesnt say that in the bible at all. if you need to see other side of things national geographic 8 o'clock tonight has the knights templore in legand the worrors of god. she froze because she couldn't answer. be open minded you might find there alot of evidance for christ but agenst the bibles story. i no i did and found that god goes agenst himself alot in the new and old testiment so i stoped beliveing.
and the holy grial is a legand ether the direct blood line of christ or the cup witch got christs blood at the crucifixion.
Yeah truth, the closest to Jesus was John, no not like the apostile as some commonly think. The John that wrote the Gospel wrote around 150 something years after Jesus died and the rest are between that and 500 years after him. This is the reson most of the bible is metaphorical. People mistake this all the time. Just because it happened that way in the bible means noting. It is just to teach a point. The life of Jesus is semi represented, because all of them used a scroll that was written in like Latin that outlines Jesus's life.
What people also dont realise is the church hand picked every book you read in the bible to back their crediblity. You have to understand that while the chuch refutes a book it does not mean it is not true. If Jesus was human he would have had sexual desires. It is part of being humna and that is a fact to which all Christians not just catholics claim. So, before saying Jesus did not marry Mary Magdiline understand it could very well be true.
As for the bible codes I will say it again. You can prove anything you try to find. Certain very gifted scientists can disproove gravity, by omiting parts of studies and experaments. The bible is long and very misunderstood it would be easy for someone with an adgenda and a knolwege of the bibels langages and the bible as a whole to find things like the bible codes.
If yours still not convinced it is crap. Religious magnitudes belive god gave you the gift of free will. To say that God could predict the outcome of everyones decions form over 1500 years ago is ludacris. If they are real they disprove Christanity. Free will is the sole baisis of the Christian religons. Also the Catholic chuch denies the ability to predict the future for this very reason. So, what you are preching is anti-semetic and some would say you would burn jsut for that. If you lived furing the iquisition you would litterally burn. So, before you preach crap think about the reprocussions of it. No point trying to proove something that disprooves your entire point thats just stupid.
finerly someone that gets that it was the church tht picked the gosples not god and to all you christans out there the nostic gosples or secrect goeples were wrtten aprox 50 years after christ's death , and if anyone says ill burn in hell. the bible also says that you may repent agenst your sins before you die and you will be accepted into the kindom of god.so if i do belive ill repent agenst ever going agenst god.
fykusfire look at the top of your posts there an edit butten please use that not triple post
SpaceMonkeyDave
04-26-2006, 00:54
do i belive in god?
yeah i got a pic of him here with his missus
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/10editeurs20050517_035539_0_big.jpg
...fart
hoverbike
04-26-2006, 01:09
do i belive in god?
yeah i got a pic of him here with his missus
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/10editeurs20050517_035539_0_big.jpg
...fart
There is the word Fart at the end which means you or Ken farted. I can't tell which one at this moment. He isn't God because he isn't perfect and God made the earth which means the material that made up the PS3 is what God made.
finerly someone that gets that it was the church tht picked the gosples not god and to all you christans out there the nostic gosples or secrect goeples were wrtten aprox 50 years after christ's death , and if anyone says ill burn in hell. the bible also says that you may repent agenst your sins before you die and you will be accepted into the kindom of god.so if i do belive ill repent agenst ever going agenst god.
Yet again, your talking about something different. That was a different Bible that was created by a group of people around 200 AD. Those people were nut-cases and today we have that bible. You can take a guess at it but it isn't the King James Version.
There is the word Fart at the end which means you or Ken farted. I can't tell which one at this moment. He isn't God because he isn't perfect and God made the earth which means the material that made up the PS3 is what God made.
It is a joke chill...
et again, your talking about something different. That was a different Bible that was created by a group of people around 200 AD. Those people were nut-cases and today we have that bible. You can take a guess at it but it isn't the King James Version.
Man you need ot understand the people in the bible did not get together and discuss how they were gonan wrte the bible. And then the people of the nostic gospels did the same and wrote that together.
Each book of teh bible is completly un realted. That is why it is a "book" not a "part." If you study the book of the bible you relise that Mathew emphisied certain aspects fo god that Luke, John and Mark do not. This is because Mathew wrote for his city or town. Not for the whole world. They had problems and he wrote his gospel to cater to those certain people.
The full bible was not realllly made to pulic until the printing press which was created in the middle ages. It was long after all these books were writen that the Pope sat with the bishops of Rome and hand picked the books that would make the bible.
The Nostic Gospels are only a bunch of lunies to you because you believe blindly that the way you have been brought up is correct. That is fine. But to be PC you need to relise no one knows so they could be right. The writers of the Nostic Gospels did nto write that bible to gether a man who belived in their theory complied them to support his argument. This is the exact thing the Roman Catholic chuch has done with their and as also goes for allll of every relgion ever created. All of them.
finerly someone that gets that it was the church tht picked the gosples not god and to all you christans out there the nostic gosples or secrect goeples were wrtten aprox 50 years after christ's death , and if anyone says ill burn in hell. the bible also says that you may repent agenst your sins before you die and you will be accepted into the kindom of god.so if i do belive ill repent agenst ever going agenst god.
Yet again, your talking about something different. That was a different Bible that was created by a group of people around 200 AD. Those people were nut-cases and today we have that bible. You can take a guess at it but it isn't the King James Version.
we have what ever was translted from latin when the bible come the england , whitch is what the church picked a very long time ago and you got it wrong. nostic is another form of christianity they follow almost the same story as moden christens just a bit differant so did you think like the head of the church if not think like him now i ask you this what would u rather do bring out the truth or make your religin look good?. the nostic were written closer to christ then the gosples of mathew mark luke and john the gosple of judas that they found was written ab 100 AD and that the egypt copy not the original so i find the nostic gosples more reliable then mathew mark luke n john as they were written after
hidden beat me to it
SpaceMonkeyDave
04-26-2006, 01:38
do i belive in god?
yeah i got a pic of him here with his missus
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/10editeurs20050517_035539_0_big.jpg
...fart
There is the word Fart at the end which means you or Ken farted. I can't tell which one at this moment. He isn't God because he isn't perfect and God made the earth which means the material that made up the PS3 is what God made.
ahh relax hover was just trying to lighten the mood, then again this topic is quite has quite a serious tone to it, perhaps i should have thought twice before posting random stuff :oops:
do i belive in god?
yeah i got a pic of him here with his missus
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/10editeurs20050517_035539_0_big.jpg
...fart
There is the word Fart at the end which means you or Ken farted. I can't tell which one at this moment. He isn't God because he isn't perfect and God made the earth which means the material that made up the PS3 is what God made.
ahh relax hover was just trying to lighten the mood, then again this topic is quite has quite a serious tone to it, perhaps i should have thought twice before posting random stuff :oops:
na do it more often it certanly made me laff :lol:
hoverbike
04-26-2006, 02:11
You people couldn't tell I was joking as well? I said something about farting and still people think I'm serious! :lol:
we have what ever was translted from latin when the bible come the england , whitch is what the church picked a very long time ago and you got it wrong. nostic is another form of christianity they follow almost the same story as moden christens just a bit differant so did you think like the head of the church if not think like him now i ask you this what would u rather do bring out the truth or make your religin look good?. the nostic were written closer to christ then the gosples of mathew mark luke and john the gosple of judas that they found was written ab 100 AD and that the egypt copy not the original so i find the nostic gosples more reliable then mathew mark luke n john as they were written after
hidden beat me to it
I don't follow you. I don't even know where your getting this information from. It's hard as anything to read that block of words.
don't follow you. I don't even know where your getting this information from. It's hard as anything to read that block of words.
Pritty sure all he is saying is that the Churhc hand picked the books to go in the bible. - This is a fact. The discovery channel had a whole special on this exact thing and how they picked them.
He is also saying that Nostic is a branch of christianity so they are not lunies
Also he is saying what he has been telling you all along that because the Gospels were wirten closer to Jesus's time they have had less of a chance of being deluded and changed through oral tridition and the liberties that accompany it. For that reason he believes the Nostic Gospels are more accurate.
adamba4e
04-26-2006, 03:33
http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/rapture-year-timeline.htm
http://www.progressiveu.org/223227-end-of-the-world-in-2007
Ummm.... I found this link for you Narutoboy and AlexPallas. To tell you the truth I dont read about this crap. Thats what it is it is all crap. I Know the Myans said it was 2012 not 2007 that was a mistake by me. I know that they clearly stated that The Lost City would rise up out of teh water and the world would be in judgment. However, I dont understand how they add the end of the world in the bible up. In some way there is I have heard it from many sources. People either say it is 2007 or 2012.
W.e. if the world ends in 2007 I hope it is only on my ps3.
the Bible says this will not be revealed. Yes, you are right its crap because its not true and I definitely don't believe what the mayans think.
"The big debate is not really whether there is a rapture, but what is the timing of it. It would seem from this debate that it is impossible to know for sure."
AlexPallas
while on "vacation" read the Bible :P
Dumbo:
actually i was man, i was reading a book on evolution just now.
I think the book cover title evolution, but the real hard cover title "The Holy Bible" ROFL :lol:
nope it wasnt the holy bible and no the cover title doesn't say "Evolution", thats would be a little to vague don't ya think :roll:
adamb4e:
dude, just because people have the christian or catholic title doesnt make them perfect or without sin. anyways that was a looooong time ago, our world is much more "civilized" and people/religions have changed.
I am just saying the Popes orders were to kill anyone who did not join there religion.
hoverbike
04-26-2006, 03:48
I am just saying the Popes orders were to kill anyone who did not join there religion.
Yep, the Popes were bad. Peter was not a pope though (He is suppose to be the 1st Pope). The current Pope just relaxed the rules on condoms.
don't follow you. I don't even know where your getting this information from. It's hard as anything to read that block of words.
Pritty sure all he is saying is that the Churhc hand picked the books to go in the bible. - This is a fact. The discovery channel had a whole special on this exact thing and how they picked them.
He is also saying that Nostic is a branch of christianity so they are not lunies
Also he is saying what he has been telling you all along that because the Gospels were wirten closer to Jesus's time they have had less of a chance of being deluded and changed through oral tridition and the liberties that accompany it. For that reason he believes the Nostic Gospels are more accurate.
ye you got it thats basicly what i was saying , im gettin most of my imfomation off national geographic
Pritty sure all he is saying is that the Churhc hand picked the books to go in the bible. - This is a fact. The discovery channel had a whole special on this exact thing and how they picked them.
:lol:. Incorrect, my friend. Constantinople (you can look up when he lived; I don't have that info at the top of my head) and his groupies (using slang here, insert the "politically correct" words, if you will) created the Bible to extend their power. Christianity was a huge religion in the Roman days, and if Constantinople could capitalize on it, he'd hit it big; and Voila, he did! <- That came from Brown's book, by the way, and it's based on facts (I'd much rather believe a university scholar/professor that studies and teach that stuff for a living than the discovery channel that's off to make money from their viewers, thank you very much)
Does that make the Bible any less "truthful"? Not really; afterall, for all we know, "God" could have planned for that to happen so he can spread his religion. This is one of those "unanswerable" debates. For every new fact science brings, it also "solidifies" another "Biblical fact".
Lets just take the big bang as an example:
Big bang happened.
How? We don't know. An almost infinite amount of energy was required, that much we know.
Relgious people will turn this around and say "That's the work of God, only he has that much energy/power/<insert whatever>." We can't disprove that, and we're considered technologically advanced.
The truth is, religion is all about belief, faith, and uh.... yeah.
Science? I see it as the same thing. People simply take science as the truth when, for all we know, we might not even exist, thus the laws of science would not exist (Okay, getting into existentialism; I'd better steer away).