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Nuvian
07-06-2008, 10:01
5 Reasons Why Achievements Are Better Than Trophies (http://nextgenplayer.blogspot.com/2008/07/5-reasons-why-achievements-are-better.html)


http://bp0.blogger.com/_C_ULX5ykcok/SHApbo5UI3I/AAAAAAAAASU/Fe_rVaNAOB8/s400/Achievement_vs_Trophies.gif (http://bp0.blogger.com/_C_ULX5ykcok/SHApbo5UI3I/AAAAAAAAASU/Fe_rVaNAOB8/s1600-h/Achievement_vs_Trophies.gif)
NextGen Player Feature Article - Part 1 of 2
By Paul Hunter

With the launch of PS3 firmware update 2.40 on July 2, Sony has officially launched their own gamer reward system to compete with Microsoft's well entrenched Achievement system. Microsoft was the first the out of the gate, and has had two and a half years to refine and improve their product. With this experience under their belt, is Microsoft's Achievement offering better than their rival's Trophy system? Or has the extra time allowed Sony to develop a superior reward system?

In part 1 of this feature article, NextGen Player will examine the reasons why Achievements are better to Trophies. Next week, in part 2 we will examine the reasons why Trophies are better than Achievements.

--
Xbox Achievements - A Brief Description

Since the launch of Xbox 360, Microsoft has mandated that retail games offer 1,000 points spread over a variable number of Achievements, while each Xbox Live Arcade title contains 12 achievements totaling 200 points. Developers also now have the option of adding up to 250 points via downloadable content (for a total of 1,250 points), and Xbox Live Arcade titles may add up to 50 points via downloadable content (for a total of 250 points).
--

5 Reasons Why Achievements Are Better Than Trophies

Reason #1: Gamerscore Loyalty

Having been around for two and a half years now, Xbox 360 gamers have amassed a deep collection of Achievements - many of which have taken hours to acquire. A growing number of Xbox 360 players have surpassed the coveted 10,000+ Achievement mark, a feat that takes patience, perseverance and most importantly - commitment. With so many dedicated hours obtaining Achievements, do Xbox 360 owners really want to begin collecting Sony's Trophy offerings? Every hour spent collecting Trophies is one less spent collecting Achievements, and that means gamerscores will rise more slowly. To some, Achievements are a competition - and for those people, Trophies would be a distraction.

With such a well established reward system, Achievements are a major advantage for Microsoft. When deciding whether to buy an Xbox 360 or PS3 version of the same game, many gamers will agree that they select Xbox 360 for the Achievements. Until Trophies gain some traction and gamer loyalty, Achievements will be more desired.

Reason #2: Consumer Affinity

Being first on the market with a reward system has given Microsoft another significant advantage in the battle for consumer dollars. As many Xbox 360 owners can attest too, obtaining an Achievement is a very gratifying experience. For those used to collecting points, seeing the familiar "Achievement Unlocked" pop-up message and hearing the reward sound can be an exciting moment. Many Xbox 360 players view their gamerscore as part of their online identity, and Achievements create an instantly recognizable symbol of your commitment to hardcore gaming. There are entire communities formed based on the common interest of Achievements (e.g. Xbox360Achievements.org (http://www.xbox360achievements.org/index.php)), and it's that strong personal affinity that will keep many gamers playing on Microsoft's platform.

Reason #3: Full Game Library Compatibility

Microsoft rolled-out their Achievement reward system for the Xbox 360 at launch, meaning all retail and downloadable games in the Xbox 360 library contain Achievements. The only exception to the rule is original Xbox titles purchased on the Live Marketplace, but that makes sense given these games never had Achievements when originally released. As an Xbox 360 owner, you are empowered with the knowledge that all games for your platform contain Achievements, no matter what the release date, distribution channel (retail vs. DLC), or publisher.

Conversely, things are much more complicated for the Playstation 3. Since firmware update 2.40 (which includes support for Trophies) was just released a few days ago, to date only Super Stardust HD has been patched for Trophies. Sony has announced a handful of other titles (see the list here (http://thesixthaxis.com/ps3_trophy_support_list_feature_1254_tsa.aspx)) but the reality is that the vast majority of the Playstation library does not support Trophies. To further complicate the situation, a number of developers have stated that they will not be patching previously released titles. High profile games not receiving Trophy patches include: Call of Duty 4, Devil May Cry 4, GRID, Ratchet and Clank Future, Resistance, among others. While it's good to see some previously released PS3 games will receive Trophy patches, when compared to Xbox 360's full library compatibility, Trophies just don't stack up.

Reason #4: Better Online Integration

Another significant advantage Achievements have over Trophies is their online integration capabilities. Microsoft has leveraged their existing MSN Live ID infrastructure to allow gamers to login to their Xbox accounts with ease. When logged in, gamers have a full range of options available to them: including viewing their gamercard and comparing Achievements with friends. An additional edge Achievements have over Trophies is the ease in which gamers can display their gamercards online. Widget application provider My Gamer Card (http://www.mygamercard.net/) allows any Xbox 360 user the ability to display their gamercards on websites and in forum signatures effortlessly - with the gamercard will automatically updating your Achievement list in real-time.

Playstation Trophies, while still in their infancy, are still lacking in online integration. Sony has no comparable PSN login website where gamers can review and compare game performance with their friends. And while a company called Playfire (http://www.playfire.com/a/create_widget) has rushed to be the first to create Gamercard service for Trophies, their widget (still in beta) currently does not update Trophies in real-time. In order to display your Trophy list, users need to manually search and select which Trophies they have acquired. This is time consuming and as a gamer, we'd rather be playing then constantly updating some online form.

Reason #5: Manageability

Last, but certainly not least, the Xbox 360 interface is cleaner, faster to navigate, and more and intuitive. The easy-to-use dashboard allows gamers to access the information they need, such as browsing Achievements and comparing their performance with friends, in a shorter period of time. The Playstation 3 interface is improving, but is more cumbersome to navigate overall - and you still can't call up the XMB to review your Trophies during playback of PS2 games, Blu-Ray discs, and DVDs. Microsoft has built a more manageable reward system that allows gamers to spend less time flipping through menus and spend more time doing what they do best - game.
Source (http://nextgenplayer.blogspot.com/2008/07/5-reasons-why-achievements-are-better.html)
Since most people here are multiplat console owners.... what do you prefer now that you have tried the trophy system on the PS3?

Future_Trunks
07-06-2008, 10:08
I agree somewhat with the list.
Achievements are linked to your profile and score as well as all games have them which is a really good thing.

We'll just have to wait how things pan out with HOME this year.

Major Ocelot
07-06-2008, 10:33
Meh they both aren't that great at the moment. Trophies have way more potential though, considering the level system and such. Having them be a physical entity in Home is quite cool too and if they become standard (which I hope Sony is pushing from now on) it will be awesome.

Sparc
07-06-2008, 10:50
Not really an article which details the pro's and con's of each system. It's very pro-achievements. I think a more reasoned article that talks about the good and bad in both would be more useful. Then this could posted in the multi-platform forum.

From my perspective. I really like the levelling up feature in Trophies and I hope that MS can adopt that either in a fw update this gen, or at least in the next gen. By the same token there are many things I like about achievements over Trophies - the most obvious of which is that achievements is in every single 360 game.

radgamer420
07-06-2008, 11:24
As soon as some PS3 games start using them I'll let you know. I'll reserve my judgement until then.

Metal Militia
07-06-2008, 12:47
From that list I think that:

#1 and #2 are basically the same thing but I see and agree with the point.

#3 and #4 I agree with.

#5 is completely down to opinion and I don't think that the PS3 Trophy interface is harder to navigate than the 360's Achievement one. The lists are basically identical in function with different aesthetics. I am a huge fan of the XMB overall, though - I think it's much nicer to use than the Dashboard.

Soldier 95B
07-06-2008, 13:26
Not really an article which details the pro's and con's of each system. It's very pro-achievements. I think a more reasoned article that talks about the good and bad in both would be more useful. Then this could posted in the multi-platform forum.

From my perspective. I really like the levelling up feature in Trophies and I hope that MS can adopt that either in a fw update this gen, or at least in the next gen. By the same token there are many things I like about achievements over Trophies - the most obvious of which is that achievements is in every single 360 game.

This is pro achievements because it is part 1.



"Next week, in part 2 we will examine the reasons why Trophies are better than Achievements."

Manolo2k7
07-06-2008, 14:01
Gamerscore loyalty a reason seriously ok whatever smh a lot of the other stuff Lempel said they are working on Sony will close that gap trust

Rareware
07-06-2008, 15:06
I think for the same reason that the Wii-Mote does well on the Wii, but MS' and Sony's versions will be viewed as shoddy knock-off's. People see both as an attempt to duplicate the success of the first.

Personally, I don't like the leveling system. It says to me that a gamer isn't good enough to achieve to get 100 headshots, but will be satisfied with 25 just to get something.

I like the idea of difficult achievements that must be fully obtained. There should be no reward for 2nd best.

Beemer
07-06-2008, 15:45
That is a very opinionated article. #1, is all fine a dandy but for anyone who hasn't started a gamerscore there's no loyalty. I don't think Sony is trying as much to take away from MS's fanbase as they are attracting the fanbase that hasn't bought into next gen yet. No difference.

Yes, there is a website. But as you can already see by our forum, the PS fanbase is very, very quickly jumping onto trophies and starting their own trophy hungry community. No difference.

Now that's just having to high an expectation. The thing came out last week. Most every game will have trophies from here on out. Sony is making it a requirement. You could give it to the 360, but that's a low blow.

#4 is fully in favor of MS, no doubts there. Much better online integration.

#5 is completely opinionated with very little fact behind it (only that you can't use in-game xmb during PS2, DVD and blu-ray usage). I find both are easy to navigate in their own rights. Neither is "cumbersome" to use, and you're not going to get lost or anything. People have dealt with Windows for years, clearly ease of use is not the highest ranking feature in OS GUI's among consumers.

Sparc
07-06-2008, 16:04
People have dealt with Windows for years, clearly ease of use is not the highest ranking feature in OS GUI's among consumers.LOL :D

For that comment alone you get a big fat +rep from me :DD




*carries on browsing the forum with his Mac*

Serinous
07-06-2008, 16:13
360's Achievements has been there quite a while now. Of course it's better in a lot of ways. The trophy system is still somewhat an infant. However, everything mentioned above can be improved overtime. This is the beauty of PSN. They still have a lot of areas they can improve upon. Unlike Live, there's nothing much more we can expect from it.

LC77
07-06-2008, 16:25
On the 360 I never became obsessed with getting all the points and achievements, because I don't really care how big my gamerscore was. I completed a game and that was that.

I suppose if and when Home is released and you can view all your trophies, that could be a really interesting feature.

sainraja
07-06-2008, 17:25
To be quite honest, both systems don't have a good rewarding system. Achievements really are just a bunch of numbers at the moment and earning trophies is just getting a bunch of levels that don't...

DayWalker
07-06-2008, 17:57
imo- the only big difference... or the only differnce that matters to me...

is the lack of games that support it...

I mean real talk- the trophy system isn't really going to be fully implemented for another year.

1) devs will just begin to implement them now
2) HOME won't be released until next spring/summer (at which time I expect to see the current @D system enhanced quite a bit)

Achievements definitely has the edge... and likely will for the large majority of this generation.

Nuvian
07-06-2008, 21:54
I haven't had a chance to try the PS3 system yet, but i like the idea more then the current MS achievement system (which i'm used to).

Level system is more my style and hopefully it will have some use in home.

MrFenwick
07-06-2008, 21:59
If Sony can do something more with the Trophies then I'll be happy. Collecting points, images for doing something special in a game isn't that exciting.

Now if my Trophy level gave me something more in real life, like reach level 5 get a free t-shirt then maybe it would be worth spending that extra time. Or get free special stuff inside Home for getting higher levels and so forth.

babyface
07-06-2008, 23:29
Sorry - I know that as a PS3 owner I'm bound to disagree - but that list really fails in several parts.

- No. 1. and 2 are basically saying the same, and they're not only subjective, but are just stating the obvious - the Microsoft system has been out longer, and has therefore a much larger cult of followers today. I fail to see how that makes a system better in quality (having been out longer and therefore being used by more people).
- No. 3 and 4 are mostly correct and absolutely valid
- No. 5 has nothing to do with Trophies, but is just a general rant about which console's GUI is better (which is, obviously, always also a question of personal taste, to some degree). Oh, you can't compare Tropies while watching a Blu-Ray? OK, if that is REALLY an issue for you, you might have some other issues as well. Just sayin'...

Apparently, it's not easy to come up with 5 really solid points to show why Gamerscore is better. Could it be that all of this is pretty subjective in the end anyway?

And just for the records, in my opinion, both systems are totally idiotic when they are used to compare peoples scores over different types of games. Someone summing up a Gamerscore of 20000 just by playing all racing games perfectly, and someone else getting 10000 just by being the king of all FPS games - now how does that compare? But that seems to be a religious debate too, and so I've long given up on it. Comparing dicks seems to be so important to many guys that they give up all common sense for it.

Vulgotha
07-06-2008, 23:35
I think #5 is totally bogus on that list.... Nor is it directly related to the argument at hand.


Feels like a tack on.

Soldier 95B
07-07-2008, 01:35
I can't wait to see part 2 and dissect that one as well.

sorrow880
07-07-2008, 03:59
Well, it's too early for me to say for SURE...but at this point I think I still prefer xbox achievements...I THINK. I like the "gamerscore" and the standardized system all across the board...every game = 1,000 points and all games have achievements.

BUT I see huge room for improvement from Trophies. IF the rumors about tying Trophies in to Home are true, then Trophies will easily take the lead.

For example, the gamers with the highest "Level" from Trophies will have the oceanfront apartments, larger apartments, better furniture, etc...gamers will be awarded for being "top-dog" gamers...that would be AWESOME. Then it becomes more than "points" or "levels" but has ACTUAL CONSEQUENCES AND RESULTS. That would take the cake. Hardcore, good gamers would be REWARDED.

Black F 0 X
07-07-2008, 04:01
Very strong opinion...everyone has one .. this is one of many

LeisureSuitLarry
07-07-2008, 04:04
As soon as some PS3 games start using them I'll let you know. I'll reserve my judgement until then.

Gotta go with rad on this one. Right now....trophies are just an idea. Let's see them being used first. In the end, I imagine this will come down to yet another pissing contest between the 360 and the PS3. But....then again....pissing contests are what we live for. Right?

carocat
07-07-2008, 04:07
If Sony can do something more with the Trophies then I'll be happy. Collecting points, images for doing something special in a game isn't that exciting.

Now if my Trophy level gave me something more in real life, like reach level 5 get a free t-shirt then maybe it would be worth spending that extra time. Or get free special stuff inside Home for getting higher levels and so forth.
Well, there are the 360Voice Old Spice challenges on the Xbox which I think are brilliant. Not too sure if they're still doing them, but they used to give out MS points, etc.

http://www.360voice.com/challenge-rules.asp

Having something like that always seemed a good idea to me.

Plazaskater
07-07-2008, 04:07
wow...trophies haven't even been out a month and people are comparing them already..come on now..yes maybe its a knockoff of achievements but at least give it a little breathing room before you start comparing them against each other

rbrtchng
07-07-2008, 16:23
Eh. an ok list.

1, 2, and 3 is just saying XBL has been out longer. It's not really the trophies' fault.

4. I think is legit, but I think Sony will make it happen soon enough.

5. Pure opinion. Honestly, i LOVE the XMB set up. The dashboard was very confusing for me at first (I didn't know how to switch between blades). And it wasn't just me, a lot of people that tried both had trouble navigating XBL but have no trouble navigating XMB.

A7MAD
07-07-2008, 16:36
Sony's late to the party this gen with services however the timing with the Trophies is no where near "point of no return" so I'd say it'll just take time for it to be accepted as an individual scheme more than a fill in for the X360's achievements.

There is nothing out there to prove one is better than the other, imo they are pretty much the same thing with a different smell.

Lethal
07-07-2008, 16:54
As someone who owns both consoles, every point apart from the full-library support for Achievements is stretching it, overly opinionated and even completely ridiculous at times.

Dashboard is easier to navigate to trophies? Lol. And why the HELL would you want to view them while playing a PS2 game of a DVD?

Redundant, pointless argument.

WaspMonkey
07-07-2008, 17:00
For those commenting on the bias of the article. Can you not read? The title clearly states 5 Reasons Why Achievements Are Better Than Trophies. (http://nextgenplayer.blogspot.com/2008/07/5-reasons-why-achievements-are-better.html)

It doesn't say A PRO/CON COMPARISON BETWEEN TROPHIES AND ACHIEVEMENTS.

But you know...you were right to call bias on this article....as it is clearly biased and states it in the title. :rolleyes:

Nuvian
07-07-2008, 19:01
In part 1 of this feature article, NextGen Player will examine the reasons why Achievements are better to Trophies. Next week, in part 2 we will examine the reasons why Trophies are better than Achievements.

Read the whole thing people before you jump in whining about an article.

Edeuinu
07-07-2008, 19:11
I'll stick with Steam, less console war driven proclamations.

360 has the upper hand console wise in this respect, but that's not saying down the road PS3 will act any different.

Dark Octave
07-07-2008, 19:25
Reason #5: Manageability


Last, but certainly not least, the Xbox 360 interface is cleaner, faster to navigate, and more and intuitive. The easy-to-use dashboard allows gamers to access the information they need, such as browsing Achievements and comparing their performance with friends, in a shorter period of time. The Playstation 3 interface is improving, but is more cumbersome to navigate overall - and you still can't call up the XMB to review your Trophies during playback of PS2 games, Blu-Ray discs, and DVDs. Microsoft has built a more manageable reward system that allows gamers to spend less time flipping through menus and spend more time doing what they do best - game.
Ridiculous. I own both systems and XBL's dashboard takes a good 20 seconds or more stuck inbetween blades (or doing anything) at time. PSN's interface is as smooth as butter. Other than that, they're both fine and easy to navigate.

Soldier 95B
07-07-2008, 19:30
[b]
Ridiculous. I own both systems and XBL's dashboard takes a good 20 seconds or more stuck inbetween blades (or doing anything) at time. PSN's interface is as smooth as butter. Other than that, they're both fine.

You must have a bad Xbox. I would look at getting it repaired. Any Xbox 360 I have had, including my current one, has INSTANT response time between blades, menus, etc. That is the same experience I have seen at friends/lan parties as well.

Dark Octave
07-07-2008, 19:34
You must have a bad Xbox. I would look at getting it repaired. Any Xbox 360 I have had, including my current one, has INSTANT response time between blades, menus, etc. That is the same experience I have seen at friends/lan parties as well.
That's strange. I'm on my 4th 360 and they've all been like this. I thought it was normal. I'll stop by my friend's house this friday and pay attention to how his reacts.

A7MAD
07-07-2008, 19:46
Ridiculous. I own both systems and XBL's dashboard takes a good 20 seconds or more stuck inbetween blades (or doing anything) at time. PSN's interface is as smooth as butter. Other than that, they're both fine and easy to navigate.

You need to send off your X360 if it takes longer than 1 literal second to change between blades, even my Xenon X360 changes that fast!

The X360 interface (Blades) are very fast but weren't always so fast, the last overhaul in December sped that all up. I'm thinking your console is either in serious trouble or you need to update it and have the latest dash version, still it was never more than 3 seconds. The XMB is just easier to see because most of it is before your eyes, but the Blades change quicker.

Both are unique and that is why I like both but wouldn't state it taking 20 seconds to change from one blade to another.

Soldier 95B
07-08-2008, 00:40
You need to send off your X360 if it takes longer than 1 literal second to change between blades, even my Xenon X360 changes that fast!

The X360 interface (Blades) are very fast but weren't always so fast, the last overhaul in December sped that all up. I'm thinking your console is either in serious trouble or you need to update it and have the latest dash version, still it was never more than 3 seconds. The XMB is just easier to see because most of it is before your eyes, but the Blades change quicker.

Both are unique and that is why I like both but wouldn't state it taking 20 seconds to change from one blade to another.

I actually got my first Xbox 360 before they were even released (due to my MVP status), and EVEN that box, with a manu date of october of 2005 never took more than a second to switch blades. Now I am talking blades. The guide that popped out was slow though...and game population in the games arcade section took forever to populate.

Vulgotha
07-08-2008, 01:20
In-Game boot up of the 360 "Blade OS" is considerably more sluggish then the In-Game XMB.

The blades also move considerably slow then switching between icons on PS3 whilst In-Game. Accessing any features or pushing any buttons (I've found) are also, slower.

Overall it's just considerably slower. This would be the 360 I just got back from the repair shop about 2 weeks ago.

Terminator 101
07-08-2008, 02:13
For example, the gamers with the highest "Level" from Trophies will have the oceanfront apartments, larger apartments, better furniture, etc...gamers will be awarded for being "top-dog" gamers...that would be AWESOME. Then it becomes more than "points" or "levels" but has ACTUAL CONSEQUENCES AND RESULTS. That would take the cake. Hardcore, good gamers would be REWARDED.
Now there is an idea of the month! Looks like we might be onto something. Even though that might be a double edged sword, as in, people with more time to play will have better apartments than people with less time. Actually, never mind, that would not have any negatives, only positives!
And if some of the rewards would include killzone and terminator posters, I would be in heaven!:D

godofspeed
07-08-2008, 11:41
Well it's still too early to tell though. Are they forgetting about the 3D trophies in HOME? We just have to wait for that part 2 article. :D