View Full Version : Is Sony losing its touch?
roxormyboxors
03-21-2006, 22:42
Somewhere along the way Sony got lost. Since they entered the console world more than a decade ago Sony has absolutely dominated. They have developed powerful systems and lured developers to make exclusive content for them. By making their systems both cheap and easy to develop for, they have ensured total domination in the console world.
Sony has proven with the PlayStation One and Two that graphics ultimately don’t matter in the long run. Neither system was the most powerful of its class and yet both were the clear victors. And yet, Sony has apparently thrown away all they have learned with the upcoming release of the PS3. I have no idea if it will work.
There is no question about it — the PS3 will be the most powerful system ever created. They have been working with IBM for many years developing a chip that is supposed to change the way processors function. The Cell, as it is being dubbed, will fuel the video game industry and computers around the world if everything goes according to plan. However, I think that Sony is making a terrible mistake with this new system.
...
Source: The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/entertainment/local_story_078190515.html?keyword=topstory)
This is from a newspaper from Oklahoma. He makes a lot of good points. If these type of articles start hitting regular newspapers you can bet it will hurt Sony's user base.
Crazy Phat
03-21-2006, 22:44
Somewhere along the way Sony got lost. Since they entered the console world more than a decade ago Sony has absolutely dominated. They have developed powerful systems and lured developers to make exclusive content for them. By making their systems both cheap and easy to develop for, they have ensured total domination in the console world.
Sony has proven with the PlayStation One and Two that graphics ultimately don’t matter in the long run. Neither system was the most powerful of its class and yet both were the clear victors. And yet, Sony has apparently thrown away all they have learned with the upcoming release of the PS3. I have no idea if it will work.
There is no question about it — the PS3 will be the most powerful system ever created. They have been working with IBM for many years developing a chip that is supposed to change the way processors function. The Cell, as it is being dubbed, will fuel the video game industry and computers around the world if everything goes according to plan. However, I think that Sony is making a terrible mistake with this new system.
...
Source: The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/entertainment/local_story_078190515.html?keyword=topstory)
This is from a newspaper from Oklahoma. He makes a lot of good points. If these type of articles start hitting regular newspapers you can bet it will hurt Sony's user base.Do you think a news article that contains pure specualtion is going to hurt the user base. Please seriously, don't make me laugh. :lol:
roxormyboxors
03-21-2006, 22:46
People that don't know any better will believe anything they read on the news :roll: Not every Playstation user is a tech guru.
People that don't know any better will believe anything they read on the news :roll: Not every Playstation user is a tech guru.
What makes you think the average casual gamer would be interested in reading articles like that though?
roxormyboxors
03-21-2006, 22:51
People that don't know any better will believe anything they read on the news :roll: Not every Playstation user is a tech guru.
What makes you think the average casual gamer would be interested in reading articles like that though?
What makes you think they won't? People of any age read the newpaper you know. It's not just grandpa :lol:
People that don't know any better will believe anything they read on the news :roll: Not every Playstation user is a tech guru.
What makes you think the average casual gamer would be interested in reading articles like that though?
What makes you think they won't? People of any age read the newpaper you know. It's not just grandpa :lol:
Erm, what does age have to do with it?
People who aren't very interested in something or don't take it very seriously usually aren't interested in reading about it. Do you think the average person is interested in reading stuff about the stock market? Or how pharmaceutical companies are doing? Usually it's the hardcore gamers or those very interested in gaming who care about each company's market share.
...By making their systems both cheap and easy to develop for, they have ensured total domination in the console world...
Credibility dashed, down the drain.
Crazy Phat
03-21-2006, 22:58
Please lock this thread since it doesn't have much point.
roxormyboxors
03-21-2006, 22:58
If you want to buy a specific HDTV model and you notice an article on the newspaper that talks about that brand and model would you read it? I know I would.
Please lock this thread since it doesn't have much point.
Let me go find an article that idolizes the PS3. Would that make you happy? It's a valid news article that made it on a regular newspaper. I don't think it should be locked.
Suikoden Fantasy
03-21-2006, 22:58
Hey I enjoy Sony's work. I don't base my opinion of liking consoles off of articles. I base my opinion off of how the games look and what games are out. People are going to enjoy the console if the games look great.
So in other words I base my opinion off of stuff like that. Not what other people think and not what's on the news and I'm sure other people feel the same.
findaway
03-21-2006, 22:59
Technology changes you know, sure you can tell the console is focusing on its own hardware, but there's a fair leap each generation, and today's is being utilized. You couldn't think of a video game console like that 10 years ago, on top everything enhances the way games are played greatly.
Not too sure of how this is going to be a terrible disadvantage for them.
udontneed2know
03-21-2006, 23:19
Noone else is really responding to the article itself it looks like so I'll respond point by point. Thats always fun.
Somewhere along the way Sony got lost. Since they entered the console world more than a decade ago Sony has absolutely dominated. They have developed powerful systems and lured developers to make exclusive content for them. By making their systems both cheap and easy to develop for, they have ensured total domination in the console world.
That intro bothers me a little bit. How has Sony gotten lost? He never says. Sony is still going to deliver powerful hardware and they are still luring in developers to create exclusive content. So they are not lost in that regard. And then he says the systems are easy to develop for :lol: Yeah, the PS2 was a cakewalk lemme tell ya.
Sony has proven with the PlayStation One and Two that graphics ultimately don’t matter in the long run. Neither system was the most powerful of its class and yet both were the clear victors. And yet, Sony has apparently thrown away all they have learned with the upcoming release of the PS3. I have no idea if it will work.
Ok, so Sony won without having the most powerful system in the past. Doesn't it mean they have an even better chance now that they will have the most powerful system on the market for the next 5 years? ( 3 if Microsoft keeps up its current console release schedule of 4 years ). That whole point really makes no sense.
The PS3 is going to cost a fortune to manufacture. Early reports speculate it will cost around $800 in parts alone to create. This doesn’t even take in to account the money Sony will have to spend on making factories to develop these chips, all the money they have spent in research and development, or even the money they are pouring in to offer an online system that can compete with Microsoft. (That last part is just a guess by me, but I would be shocked if Sony didn’t offer their own version of Xbox Live.) In other words, they are going to take a massive hit on this new system.
Notice how its only early speculation that states the manufactoring costs. Those reports have never once been correct so it definately won't change now. The most expensive parts are the Blu-Ray Drive ( for the first year anyway ) and the RSX GPU ( since they have to pay Nvidia royalties ). Cell will be incredibly cheap within a year since its being so widely manufactored and put out at such a fast rate. My guess? 600$ manufactoring costs to start out, dropping to about 350$ by the end of 2007.
The easiest solution right now is for Sony to completely remove the ridiculous Blu Ray drive. Remember, Sony is not just a video game company. They are a major player in the home movie market as well and, with the increased popularity of high definition televisions, a new DVD format is fast approaching. One side is touting HD DVDs and the other Blu Ray. Sony is planning on using the PS3 as a way to sneak BR into peoples’ homes, much like they did with the built-in DVD player in the PS2.
Now he calls the Blu-Ray drive ridiculous. What a twerp. I guess he doesn't realize the system will play other DVD's and DVD-9's and CD's and everything else just fine. Then he says Sony is sneaking drives into peoples homes. Considering the PS3's Box will likely state " Blu-Ray Disc Player! " its hardly sneaking them in.
The problem is by including a BR player they are set to significantly up the price of the system. Stand alone movie players are coming out in a few months and they are going to retail for close to $1,000. Is Sony really willing to take a massive loss on every PS3 sold simply to get BR in people’s homes? I don’t think they should. People have just built up their DVD collection; will they really want to re-buy their movies again? Plus, digital distribution of movies is only a year or two away. There’s a good chance neither HD DVD nor BR will be a success.
People keep saying that about the stand-alone players. When the PS2 released you could hardly find a DVD player under 500$. Most were still 600$ or so at that time and people had the same worries about Sony's system due to the DVD player and how expensive it would be. Same thing here, yet they never EVER actually say something smart like " oh forgot to say, stand-alone players also have burner capabilities and can be used as Blu-Ray recorders and have many features not avaliable on the PS3 player which is going to be a basic Blu-Ray player ). Never ever state that.
By including Blu Ray in the PS3, the system will cost much more, be more likely to fail (this is brand new technology), may be slower than current DVD players (who likes load time?) and will make the games more expensive as well. Yes, they are larger than DVDs, but are all the problems worth it?
Noone likes load times but even with the 360's 12x DVD-9 player is going through its own load time troubles. Load times will never ever ... ever ever ... dissapear. So forget about it and move on. If the Blu-Ray player is 4x it'll be faster then any other player on the market. But it will still have load times, even with the HDD helping.
The PS3 will be difficult to develop for and expensive. This means you won’t see small developers like Sandlot create fantastic games like Radial Alchemic Drive or Earth Defense Force 2 because, if they don’t sell many copies, they could lose a lot of money. You also won’t see big-time publishers like Namco take a risk with Katamari Damacy. These are niche titles that are only supposed to sell a few thousand.
He doesn't even know what hes talking about anymore now. Publishers determine how independant developers survive, not the power of a system. If I wanted to, I could make a 2D title on the PS3 that rivals that of Zelda and it would get put on the system without many problems. Publishers though are the main reason why independant developers are getting hammered these days. Publishers, not console makers. Sony is actually the most open publisher in the world today, with tons of independant talent within their company. And then he says Radial Alchemic Drive, but he means Robot Alchemic Drive a game published by Enix. Yeah, small company indeed.
People stated before the PS2 released that the system was so hard to develop for and the cycle would be so long that noone would take risks on the PS2 either, but thats been completely killed.
Sony provides more middleware then ever right out of the SDK. So even independant developers will have the tools right in their hands that will become necessary to make a game of their imagination.
The PS2, with its massive installed base and cheap cost of development, ensured developers could make money on these games. There is no such guarantee with the PS3.
That was not a guarantee on the PS2 either. No unreleased system will ever have that kind of guarantee. But history shows that Sony has provided gamers with what they want, and they allow developers to make whatever is on their minds. So the users will return. And the developers and publishers can rest easy.
Most important of all, Sony may actual have competition this time around. I would love to mention Microsoft here, but they are so unsuccessful in Japan I don’t think they could ever threaten Sony. Nintendo, however, definitely can.
Thats everyones so called point about the last playstations. " They didnt have competition!" Bull crap. The playstations survived the greatest Sega system ever made. It survived 2 different Nintendo systems and Microsofts first attempt at mocking the Playstation brand but adding some PC flavor to the mix. If Sony hasn't had competition then noone in this industry has. Gamers just flock to Sony's product so much that it feels like they haven't been tested yet, and people will think Sony hasn't been tested until the marketshare is 50-50.
Unless Sony can continue to offer a huge variety of software at a cheap price like they have been doing with the PSOne and PSTwo, they could be in huge trouble this time next year. They are struggling to sell the PSP against the cheaper and more original NDS. If they aren’t careful, they could be left behind in the console world as well.
Considering theres already a huge variety of titles announced for the PS3 including RPG's of many varieties including MMO's, then you have action titles and FPS's and platformers and open-ended games and sports and boxing and blah blah. Tons of material already here, so that shouldnt be a worry.
And they are now struggling to sell the PSP? Hell I thought selling 100,000+ a month was pretty good.
It really jsut prooves how uneducated peopel are about ps3. I know people that think the price is 900 us dollars, because it was annalised to be by Forbes.
And graphics really are not to much of an infulence for sony. The cell is designed to be able to handle so many different functions at one time if I am not mistaken. This makes the system more versitile and beeter for gameplay. People jsut dont realise the state of video games.
If you dont know about pc gaming you dont knwo the potential. Not many non-games have seen Fear, Doom 3 and Half Life 2.
I the n th rigth track. They are kinda reinventing the console by integrating ti with a PC. And hey with teh progression of gamigna nd the power they need. It was only so long. I think it will be hailed as revolutionary.
badz_ps3
03-21-2006, 23:24
i couldnt even finish reading the article because there are so many points that this author simply does not have enough background info on to make a valid argument. total digital distro of media one or two years away???? who are they kidding? re-buy movies in br that they have on dvd already? why bother when br enhances dvds to near hd quality?? yea br players are commin out at $1000, and the ps3 is going to offer a player + a minor addition of the most powerful gaming console, all for less $ then those palyers.... initial loss? obviously. but the amount of people that buy into it will rebound them far into profit in the long run.
obviously they'res a gamble in business but i believe a giant such as sony has a smidget of an idea how things work. :)
ps3forlife82
03-21-2006, 23:24
There is no question about it — the PS3 will be the most powerful system ever created. They have been working with IBM for many years developing a chip that is supposed to change the way processors function. The Cell, as it is being dubbed, will fuel the video game industry and computers around the world if everything goes according to plan.
Ok, he doesnt say anything bad about the ps3 and makes a very good point that the ps3 will be the most powerful system ever created.. But at the end he has to throw in this dumb comment..
However, I think that Sony is making a terrible mistake with this new system.
lol, where did this come from.. Who is this guy and what does he know? this is way laughable and whoever listens to a newspaper add and listens to this guy, has no clue about gaming and should go buy a sega CD..
Bottom line is that sony knows they need to step it up and come out with a powerful system.. Thats all people want these days is power and the best games.. And to my friend who wrote this article.. SONY HAS BOTH OF THESE WITH THE PS3..
ZoMBiePiGGy
03-21-2006, 23:30
The only real edge the xbox had against sony were that it was more powerful and it had Halo, now that the ps3 is the most powerfull, the xbox will be left in it's dust
I hate it when they say the PSone was the weakest console
it kill the Sega Saturn graphics wise
and the N64 games may have looked smooth
but I still knew the PSone was pushing more polys
as for the PS2 well just look at some of the games coming out for it now!
not bad for a 6 year old console
i love the new people who joined the forums the last week or so :roll:
i love the new people who joined the forums the last week or so :roll:
why?
ps: nice pic I can imagine him kickin tha shit out of Bill Gates :lol:
Basic Chair
03-21-2006, 23:56
This is from a newspaper from Oklahoma. He makes a lot of good points. If these type of articles start hitting regular newspapers you can bet it will hurt Sony's user base.
Hahaha... You're funny. :lol: The only "point" he makes is that the PS3 will be the most powerful of the 3 systems. Now pardon my french, but tell me... how the hell is making the most powerful system "loosing your touch"!?!? :lol:
This article is perplexing. His point appears to be: "The PS3 will be the best, which is of course bad."
Ridiculous article really.
It seems this guy is afraid of Sony launching the PS3...common "a terrible mistake"?! :lol:
Probably he has his own Xbox360 and is trying to disuade people from buying the PS3, i wonder why? :roll:
ps3forlife82
03-22-2006, 00:00
i didnt even read the whole article until i read ur post udontneed2know.. good post by the way..
They are struggling to sell the PSP against the cheaper and more original NDS. If they aren’t careful, they could be left behind in the console world as well.
ok i agree the ds is original.. BUT so is the psp.. I think the psp is more original than anything ever invented in the heldheld market.. Ok the ds has two screens "wow".. Psp has unbelievable games, movies, music, internet, wi-fi, and coming soon gps, eyetoy, downloadable ps1 content and the list goes on and this is all packed in one little handheld.. And the psp is selling like hotcakes.. For this guy to say sony is going to get left behind, hahaha where's this guy get this stuff from.. It should be the other way around.. Sony is leaving everyone else behind.. Sony is looking into the future with all its products and especially the ps3.. Technology we cannot even get our hands on yet..
Crazy Phat
03-22-2006, 00:04
i didnt even read the whole article until i read ur post udontneed2know.. good post by the way..
They are struggling to sell the PSP against the cheaper and more original NDS. If they aren’t careful, they could be left behind in the console world as well.
ok i agree the ds is original.. BUT so is the psp.. I think the psp is more original than anything ever invented in the heldheld market.. Ok the ds has two screens "wow".. Psp has unbelievable games, movies, music, internet, wi-fi, and coming soon gps, eyetoy, downloadable ps1 content and the list goes on and this is all packed in one little handheld.. And the psp is selling like hotcakes.. For this guy to say sony is going to get left behind, hahaha where's this guy get this stuff from.. It should be the other way around.. Sony is leaving everyone else behind.. Sony is looking into the future with all its products and especially the ps3.. Technology we cannot even get our hands on yet..Good post(five word minimum).
OKlondon
03-22-2006, 00:04
Soon or later you need to change your formula otherwise you loose your number 1 spot. Sooner or later you need to take risks. It really doesnt matter what hardware sony creates it just matters about the games, they have the exclusives they will win. Its that simple.
I m pleased about what sony is doing, its going to be amazing, just hope they dont loose any exclusives.
Crazy Phat
03-22-2006, 00:10
Soon or later you need to change your formula otherwise you loose your number 1 spot. Sooner or later you need to take risks. It really doesnt matter what hardware sony creates it just matters about the games, they have the exclusives they will win. Its that simple.
I m pleased about what sony is doing, its going to be amazing, just hope they dont loose any exclusives.The good thing is, Sony has this in the bag. Sony has a Xbox live type service(might even be better) for free. A 60 gig hardrive. The most powerful console. A Blu-Ray [layer for HDTV owners. Alot of games as well as exclusives. New exclusives (like Heavenly Sword and Killing Day). A large fan base(still big even if they might lose fans down the line) and a powerful and extremely recognizable playstation brand(so consumers know they are getting quality).
mrnagy88
03-22-2006, 00:10
i love the new people who joined the forums the last week or so :roll:lol nice post, I'm with you... it's a mixed bag, but overall we have a great bunch of people joining us, welcome to the forums.
(Some of the bad ones even had to get IP banned, and had thier ISP's contacted for abuse I think, lol)
If anything Sony is going to Expand there userbase with the cell. It (The Ps3)clearly has the advantage over the 360 in both graphical power and Proccesing power. I think Sony is starting a new revolution of video game consoles by using an operating system. But on the other hand Sony looks like they are taking over the world ! With all the blockbuster titles such as GTA, Gran Turismo, God Of War, on the PS2 I can see them selling over 300+ million consoles in 10 years ! The advancements of the PS3 are amazing technologically with the Cell and the RSX from Nvidia. Hope it helps :wink:
roxormyboxors
03-22-2006, 00:33
This is from a newspaper from Oklahoma. He makes a lot of good points. If these type of articles start hitting regular newspapers you can bet it will hurt Sony's user base.
Hahaha... You're funny. :lol: The only "point" he makes is that the PS3 will be the most powerful of the 3 systems. Now pardon my french, but tell me... how is making the most powerful system "loosing your touch"!?!? :lol:
- Bluray and pricing - Digital distribution of movies may not be 2 years away but this media format war is going to last a lot more than that. Either side is far from winning. The games will be on blu-ray discs even if they don't use up the extra space. In the end that's just going to increase pricing for us for both the console and games.
- and basically the last 5 paragraphs of the article.
The correct word was probably "some" instead of "a lot" but whatever.
Terarrim
03-22-2006, 00:58
I think its insane the amount of bad press the PS3 is getting. Before and after then recent announcements. I really don't understand why the press seems to be so anti PS3.
For example where is the analysts extolling Sony for bring Linux to mass market consoles.
Why are people so anti Blue Ray. Yes its new technology but should new consoles be about pushing the boundaries of whats possible. Whats so wrong with providing High Def Media (games and movies) to mass market.
People seem to have backed off criticizing the Cell as IBM and independents have shown its as good as Sony\IBM have claimed. However where is the praise for this radical processor. Thats so revolutionary that it can do physics, graphics and general computing tasks. If Intel or AMD had produced something on this power (7 to 8 times) more powerful than its rivals this would have been much bigger news.
You have one of the most open operating systems in Linux and one of the most open CPU's in Cell with huge support for both. Why aren't anti trust people praising this to high heaven.
Many great games have come out for PS1 and PS2 the analysts say were not sure about PS2. The PS3 is backwards compatible for both generations is this not something Sony should be praised about caring for its customer base?
PS3 is easier to develop for than the PS2, Its more powerful console this generation, it has the best developer support than its previous two generations, and they even put PS2 registers in the SPE's to help PS2 developers. Surely if there is going to be analyses of the new console then a more balanced view should be taken.
Where the hell are the plaudits for middleware support for developers?
People come to this forum and cannot believe the debates we have for example PS3 vs CPU's and PC vs Xbox 360. They also cannot believe our pro PS3 stance. Well I for one feel almost at siege vs the nay sayers. There are some really heavy hitters out there that seem to be anti Cell or anti PS3.
I think Sony should be praised where in a world where everyone is looking for the safe option. They have gone for a vision of what they want and put the tech in for us the gamers.
They have potentially given us the first console/PC true hybrid. They have given the PC CPU industry a wake up call with the genius design of the Cell, Never in my life watching the IT industry have I seen a CPU come out with performance leap like the Cell has given (over rivals potential or otherwise). IBM and Sony really done themselves proud with this chip.
Sony are not perfect with DRM and the like I admit. However from the PS3 perspective Sony seem to be engaging the community and the games players in its product. It reminds me of Half Life with what the modders done to create the great counterstrike. With the IBM Cell public SDK and linux I can see great things happening for the PS3. We may see new generations of programmers getting to down and dirty coding directly because of Sony and IBM's influence. Just as Half Life (Valve) had such a dramatic effect on the gaming scene.
I agree with Udontkneed2know that Sony has had competition but has given the market what its wanted which is why the runaway success.
Graphics guru's should be on their hands and knees thanking IBM and Sony for the Cell. For the first time they are not limited to the constraints of directX, Open GL etc. The programmer can exactly control everything about how the graphics work with no constraints (apart from architecture). To be honest this is one of the reasons why some graphics devs are exited about the Cell.
Anyway thats my opinion. I just sense a very imbalanced view from analysts and reporters. And I really wonder why that is?
Graphics guru's should be on their hands and knees thanking IBM and Sony for the Cell. For the first time they are not limited to the constraints of directX, Open GL etc. The programmer can exactly control everything about how the graphics work with no constraints (apart from architecture). To be honest this is one of the reasons why some graphics devs are exited about the Cell. In the context of the PS3, developers are still limited to Open GL_ES. On top of that, the CELL won't be used for any actual graphics rendering (The RSX is deligated to that task, obviously), most likely post-processing and effects at the most.
I also highly doubt the fact that Sony is losing its "touch". Maybe when Ken goes down the drain, so will the PS brand, but as of now, there's nothing to even remotely suggest, on a purely factual basis, that SCEI is losing its "touch" with its PS brand.
- Bluray and pricing - Digital distribution of movies may not be 2 years away but this media format war is going to last a lot more than that.
Digital distribution is a fantasy until we decide to municipalize backbone fiber to everyone's homes.
Terarrim
03-22-2006, 01:53
The One said:
In the context of the PS3, developers are still limited to Open GL_ES. On top of that, the CELL won't be used for any actual graphics rendering (The RSX is deligated to that task, obviously), most likely post-processing and effects at the most.
I disagree I think programmers will eventually use 1 to 3 SPE's for graphics dependant on the game. Intially i would imagine that most of the GPU work will go RSX way. However as time goes by I believe the Cell will also be sharing/doing its part in the graphics department. The graphics Developers at IBM Cell forums are talking about exactly this. The level of flexibility they have between the RSX and the Cell. From reading the posts some graphics designers hate the constraints of open GL and its these type of people that may start using the Cell for GPU assist (in some type of rendering).
Crazy Phat
03-22-2006, 01:57
The One said:
In the context of the PS3, developers are still limited to Open GL_ES. On top of that, the CELL won't be used for any actual graphics rendering (The RSX is deligated to that task, obviously), most likely post-processing and effects at the most.
I disagree I think programmers will eventually use 1 to 3 SPE's for graphics dependant on the game. Intially i would imagine that most of the GPU work will go RSX way. However as time goes by I believe the Cell will also be sharing/doing its part in the graphics department. The graphics Developers at IBM Cell forums are talking about exactly this. The level of flexibility they have between the RSX and the Cell. From reading the posts some graphics designers hate the constraints of open GL and its these type of people that may start using the Cell for GPU assist (in some type of rendering).The Getaway 3 was shown using only the Cell as well as a gas station video game. So the One's statement is pretty much flawed.
roxormyboxors
03-22-2006, 02:00
- Bluray and pricing - Digital distribution of movies may not be 2 years away but this media format war is going to last a lot more than that.
Digital distribution is a fantasy until we decide to municipalize backbone fiber to everyone's homes.
That's why I wrote "may not". There are providers that are already working on this kind of service. Here's an example: http://www.comcast-ne.com/vod.html
LicencsetoIll
03-22-2006, 02:08
Well I do think one thing that Sony can not afford is arrogance. Arrogance cost Nintentdo #1 place in the console industry and the same could be said of Sony if they underestimate their competition.
UCONN for life
03-22-2006, 02:21
Sometimes people don't give consumers enough credit. Its all of the early adoptors who are gonna be on PS3 cuz of its power. Even though most of these people are poser tech nerds who just want to seem like they know everything about games. They'll be like "OMG, PS3 is teh shiznit, its the leet console, i gotta buy it cuz of cell" Whatever. They won't care about Cell's SPE architecture, where the PPE directs the SPE's, and IMO, uses each SPE as an "overflow" protector. Whereas PPE gets bogged down, sends code to SPE1, that code overflows, so it gets sent to SPE2, ect. The only problem is that this might exasorbate any slowdowns, but it would be a good safety valve. The EIB would also help allieviate any slowdown if code can then be quickly relayed back to the PPE via the EIB. So say it goes from PPE to SPE1 to SPE2 to SPE3 back to the PPE using the EIB. Oh well, its fun to speculate on brand new hardware architecture.
Terarrim
03-22-2006, 02:32
I really don't understand where people have said about Arrogance. What about the new features in the PS3. Or the live like features announced. Or the flexibility of the thing. Or middleware due to developer complaints about the lack of support for PS3. Sounds like Sony is going above and beyond the call of duty with the PS3 in my opinion.
People cant have it all ways. Its like PS3 has way to many features so its going to fail.
Then its Sony is arrogant and don't listen to the customers????
Thats exactly what I'm saying I don't mind criticism but what about a little bit of constructive criticism the Pros together with the Cons for a change.
Sometimes people don't give consumers enough credit. Its all of the early adoptors who are gonna be on PS3 cuz of its power. Even though most of these people are poser tech nerds who just want to seem like they know everything about games. They'll be like "OMG, PS3 is teh shiznit, its the leet console, i gotta buy it cuz of cell" Whatever. They won't care about Cell's SPE architecture, where the PPE directs the SPE's, and IMO, uses each SPE as an "overflow" protector. Whereas PPE gets bogged down, sends code to SPE1, that code overflows, so it gets sent to SPE2, ect. The only problem is that this might exasorbate any slowdowns, but it would be a good safety valve. The EIB would also help allieviate any slowdown if code can then be quickly relayed back to the PPE via the EIB. So say it goes from PPE to SPE1 to SPE2 to SPE3 back to the PPE using the EIB. Oh well, its fun to speculate on brand new hardware architecture.
Cell doesn't work that way (your overflow statement). The PPE and SPE's are all individual CPU's. The PPE can be used as a controller, but the programmer (and eventually the compiler) has to set the tasks to what he/she wants the SPE's to do. If a task is to big for one SPE then yes two SPE's can work in tandem on that task. However the SPE's once given a task can work in and on its own without any "help" from the PPE. Basically the PPE and SPE's are like a network of CPU's with the EEB being the network which they use to communicate with each other (and main memory/RSX etc).
This is a very basic idea of how the Cell works.
UCONN for life
03-22-2006, 02:39
Oh, oops, my mistake. I thought that cell would work that way, mostly through preconcieved notions that the PPE would be the most important part of Cell. In your [Terarrim] explanation, the SPE's are like the worker drones, and the PPE is like the Queen Bee. The only thing I don't like about that architecture is that if some processes are too tough for one SPE to bear, other SPE's have to help it, which reduces those SPE's abilities to handle code, which slows the whole system down. Its how the WTC towers fell on 9/11. As load bearing columns burned, the weight was transferred to non burned colums, eventually enough columns burned that the building couldn't support itself and it fell. My implementation would be like having an "unfinished work" bin, where the PPE puts "unfinished work" into a "bin" where SPE's finish the job. Regarding the 9/11 part, I used it as an analogy to collapsing structures, and my deepest sympathies go out to anyone on the forum who was affected by the tradegy.
roxormyboxors
03-22-2006, 02:43
I really don't understand where people have said about Arrogance.
"I can produce the PS3 anytime"
"Next gen starts when we say its starts"
If that doesn't sound arrogant I don't know what does.
I think the 360 and Revolution will be more game consul than the PS3 is.
Ricokillercon
03-22-2006, 03:20
I think the 360 and Revolution will be more game consul than the PS3 is.
No....its more like this in terms of pure gaming console...
rev>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>360>>Ps3.
And besides you pay for what you get.
right_l1
03-22-2006, 03:22
i personally don't see why so many people are against the ps3..
i think sony is doing a great thing by trying to make the ps3 the best system out there.
i mean... you can't just stick to one strategy forever.
I think the 360 and Revolution will be more game consul than the PS3 is.
No....its more like this in terms of pure gaming console...
rev>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>360>>Ps3.
And besides you pay for what you get.
I'd put the 360 about 7 arrows back but yeah pretty much.
The Chocobo Kid
03-22-2006, 03:32
to me sony is doing more then needed. they are trying to make everone happy and bring us something new.
Ricokillercon
03-22-2006, 03:39
to me sony is doing more then needed. they are trying to make everone happy and bring us something new.
I am not complaining about what sony's doing. Infact i love all the extras that i will be able to do with my ps3 than just play games. Sometimes i just don't feel like playing games even if i have nothing else to do. Like i am bored right now so i am online, with my ps3 i can go online and mess around too.
yeah i see a lot of that too. in a majority of the mainstream media, most of the articles about ps3 is negative. i dunno, maybe they are trying to sell newspapers? i think they just see a delay and they have to say its bad withouth knowing the good stuff as well. if u get into the more specialized media like tech and gaming, then the articles are better.
C64isStillTheBest
03-22-2006, 04:16
I think the 360 and Revolution will be more game consul than the PS3 is.
No....its more like this in terms of pure gaming console...
rev>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>360>>Ps3.
And besides you pay for what you get.
I'd put the 360 about 7 arrows back but yeah pretty much.
I agree, but in my case I still play DVDs on my 1st gen PS2. I'm looking forward to the PS3 for it's Blu-ray player too. For online I still prefer the PC so that's why I don't care about the service and why I'm not even remotely interested on the 360. I share Sony's vision of the PS3 being a media hub and given Sony's expertise versus M$ I'm going with Sony.
Also regarding the negative press that the PS3 is getting, it's mostly in the USA which is the only territory where M$ is worshiped by misguided souls. :P
Wait until E3 and watch the PS3 blow the competition away. Heck, let's see what happens at GDC, maybe we'll get a glimpse.
1st_Gen_Gamer
03-22-2006, 05:19
This is from a newspaper from Oklahoma. He makes a lot of good points. If these type of articles start hitting regular newspapers you can bet it will hurt Sony's user base.
Actually, right now, since Sony doesn't have any PS3s to sell, and hasn't announced the price, this kind of an article is a dream come true for the PS3.
First off, the PS3 isn't out yet. The XB360 is. But this article isn't about the XB360. It is about the PS3, meaning there is a mainstream buzz about the PS3, even 9 months away, and there is none for XB360. The author even goes so far as to sort of laugh off Microsoft entirely as no threat to Sony. That kind of buzz is good for Sony.
Second, in the article, the author flat-out calls the PS3 "the most powerful system in the world." That's good for building up the PS3 hype too.
Third, all this talk about $800 PS3s will only make it easier for them to sell it at $400. If they manage to launch it at $350, people will think they're stealing it after reading this kind of news for nine months.
"Wow, it's got Blu-ray, and the paper was saying these cost $800 for Sony to make! What a bargain, I've gotta get one!"
or
"Wow, I saved up $600 for the PS3 and it only cost me $400, I'm going to buy more games, or a bigger HDD, or an Eyetoy!"
I can hear it now.
I agree, but in my case I still play DVDs on my 1st gen PS2. I'm looking forward to the PS3 for it's Blu-ray player too. For online I still prefer the PC so that's why I don't care about the service and why I'm not even remotely interested on the 360. I share Sony's vision of the PS3 being a media hub and given Sony's expertise versus M$ I'm going with Sony.
Also regarding the negative press that the PS3 is getting, it's mostly in the USA which is the only territory where M$ is worshiped by misguided souls. :P
Wait until E3 and watch the PS3 blow the competition away. Heck, let's see what happens at GDC, maybe we'll get a glimpse.
I really don't get the M$ but not $ony thing. If you're going to use the "$" on one why not the other? It's not like one is trying to make money and the other isn't. It's not like Sony hasn't attempted to become a monopoly, it's just that they were never completely successful in doing so. MS is a little more evil in it's practices than Sony but they are both about "$" so i don't get the selective $ing when talking about multi billion dollar corporations. anyways...
I'm really looking forward to see what from Linux will manifest itself in on the PS3, I hope they get into that more at the GDC.
I think it's more dangerous for opposition for Sony to have the superior tech like the newspaper said Sony in the past have convinced devs to develop for the system exclusively despite inferior hardware.
Terarrim
03-22-2006, 17:54
I think the 360 and Revolution will be more game consul than the PS3 is.
What does this exactly mean. If you mean both consoles will probably allot less flexible than the PS3 I agree with you.
However if your talking about variety and depth of games then I have do disagree. Remember that we don't see about a 1/3 of the quirky titles that are released in Japan only on PS2 and PS1.
The PS3 will also have the largest amount of previous generation of games ever.
And this time around the PS3 will be able to do well (due to tech) in fields its previously done not quite so well. Like FPS and MMO for example.
Sure there are some very good games from Nintendo and MS. However I believe that with the amount of back previous generation of games and future releases the PS3 will have more games and more variety within the different genres than the Xbox 360 and Revolution put together.
bksianzz
03-22-2006, 18:16
totally bullcrap
muz be a MS fanboy
roxormyboxors
03-22-2006, 19:59
totally bullcrap
muz be a MS fanboy
I'm surprised you didn't type M$. Good for you. Have a cookie. :wink:
Somewhere along the way Sony got lost. Since they entered the console world more than a decade ago Sony has absolutely dominated. They have developed powerful systems and lured developers to make exclusive content for them. By making their systems both cheap and easy to develop for, they have ensured total domination in the console world.
Sony has proven with the PlayStation One and Two that graphics ultimately don’t matter in the long run. Neither system was the most powerful of its class and yet both were the clear victors. And yet, Sony has apparently thrown away all they have learned with the upcoming release of the PS3. I have no idea if it will work.
There is no question about it — the PS3 will be the most powerful system ever created. They have been working with IBM for many years developing a chip that is supposed to change the way processors function. The Cell, as it is being dubbed, will fuel the video game industry and computers around the world if everything goes according to plan. However, I think that Sony is making a terrible mistake with this new system.
...
Source: The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/entertainment/local_story_078190515.html?keyword=topstory)
This is from a newspaper from Oklahoma. He makes a lot of good points. If these type of articles start hitting regular newspapers you can bet it will hurt Sony's user base.
bout that. naw i think sony is gettin better. but what would i know.....
Crazy Phat
03-22-2006, 22:33
From what I have read and seen form GDC from Phil, Sony has defiantely not lost its touch.
Ricokillercon
03-22-2006, 22:39
Somewhere along the way Sony got lost. Since they entered the console world more than a decade ago Sony has absolutely dominated. They have developed powerful systems and lured developers to make exclusive content for them. By making their systems both cheap and easy to develop for, they have ensured total domination in the console world.
Sony has proven with the PlayStation One and Two that graphics ultimately don’t matter in the long run. Neither system was the most powerful of its class and yet both were the clear victors. And yet, Sony has apparently thrown away all they have learned with the upcoming release of the PS3. I have no idea if it will work.
There is no question about it — the PS3 will be the most powerful system ever created. They have been working with IBM for many years developing a chip that is supposed to change the way processors function. The Cell, as it is being dubbed, will fuel the video game industry and computers around the world if everything goes according to plan. However, I think that Sony is making a terrible mistake with this new system.
...
Source: The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/entertainment/local_story_078190515.html?keyword=topstory)
This is from a newspaper from Oklahoma. He makes a lot of good points. If these type of articles start hitting regular newspapers you can bet it will hurt Sony's user base.
Ok...so sony has proven that power in a system is not everything, and thus proving that becuase they provided great games a system is guarantee succes. I don't know what the problem is if sony makes a great powerful system and continues to deliver great games. Its a win win situation. Us ps2 fans where always made fun of by xbox fans because their games (while less in numbers) where always pretier. Now we get pretty quality games with a great library. I don't see where sony is going wrong here. But hey maybe that's just me.
Crazy Phat
03-22-2006, 22:56
Somewhere along the way Sony got lost. Since they entered the console world more than a decade ago Sony has absolutely dominated. They have developed powerful systems and lured developers to make exclusive content for them. By making their systems both cheap and easy to develop for, they have ensured total domination in the console world.
Sony has proven with the PlayStation One and Two that graphics ultimately don’t matter in the long run. Neither system was the most powerful of its class and yet both were the clear victors. And yet, Sony has apparently thrown away all they have learned with the upcoming release of the PS3. I have no idea if it will work.
There is no question about it — the PS3 will be the most powerful system ever created. They have been working with IBM for many years developing a chip that is supposed to change the way processors function. The Cell, as it is being dubbed, will fuel the video game industry and computers around the world if everything goes according to plan. However, I think that Sony is making a terrible mistake with this new system.
...
Source: The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/entertainment/local_story_078190515.html?keyword=topstory)
This is from a newspaper from Oklahoma. He makes a lot of good points. If these type of articles start hitting regular newspapers you can bet it will hurt Sony's user base.
Ok...so sony has proven that power in a system is not everything, and thus proving that becuase they provided great games a system is guarantee succes. I don't know what the problem is if sony makes a great powerful system and continues to deliver great games. Its a win win situation. Us ps2 fans where always made fun of by xbox fans because their games (while less in numbers) where always pretier. Now we get pretty quality games with a great library. I don't see where sony is going wrong here. But hey maybe that's just me.Goode point as well as a kick ass online service for free(what you say phat free). :lol:
BustenRhymes7790
05-02-2009, 23:23
This news piece seemed to slip by us due to its unusual nature. A tip from a reader pointed us to the European PlayStation Store, where the X-Men Origins: Wolverine demo has appeared after the regular Thursday update. The demo reportedly became available sometime yesterday.
The demo has not yet appeared on the North American Store, but ee'd venture that it will arrive at the regular time next Thursday. Meanwhile, Europeans, it's time to celebrate: you got something first!
Copyright
02-06-2011, 10:32
Talk about bringing up an old topic! Delete or lock someone!
yeah, I already reported it...