View Full Version : A Current Affair : Video gaming revolution ,Project Natal , Move , 3D gaming (Video)
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/video-gaming-revolution/xb9uhs3
YouTube- Project Natal and Playstation Move demo on ACA 18/5/10
Edit: Maybe if I change the name of this thread to Project Natal doesn't work people will come & watch?
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/video-gaming-revolution/xb9uhs3
Edit: Maybe if I change the name of this thread to Project Natal doesn't work people will come & watch?
They'll come in their millions.
I love how she says the current systems will become obsolete but obviously, natal and move work with the current systems... and that is mentioned in the report too...how silly.
She also said Nintendo are working on a super secret project... then tells you what it is, hardly super secret. A 3d ds without glasses.
I wonder if 3d gaming is actually gonna be any good. Not too bothered myself, but much like films i doubt we'll be able to avoid it.
Also, that kid was really quite annoying.
Staticneuron
05-18-2010, 14:17
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/video-gaming-revolution/xb9uhs3
Edit: Maybe if I change the name of this thread to Project Natal doesn't work people will come & watch?
Lol, maybe you would get more views.
nah just use the same titles as on the site. Or else you will be attacked by some people^^
Vid: It wasnt interesting anyways^^
Lol, maybe you would get more views.
they say that I'm a troll that only make threads about Natal not working but the reality is I make 90% of the Natal threads in the 1st place and they only see the one's that they think is bad.
Edit: looks like the trolls succeeded in their plan to get the other thread closed.
That was a pretty impressive video, especially for ACA lol. The host totally sucked at those games, but you can't blame her.
I don't know how SONY can have MotorStorm: Pacific Rift one of the best looking games I've ever seen also have 3D?
Staticneuron
05-18-2010, 14:38
they say that I'm a troll that only make threads about Natal not working but the reality is I make 90% of the Natal threads in the 1st place and they only see the one's that they think is bad.
Edit: looks like the trolls succeeded in their plan to get the other thread closed.
Well, let me thank you here. The majority of technical and practical information I have gotten about the Move, the PSeye and Natal is from you. And I know what I have read is not a personal negative slant.
they say that I'm a troll that only make threads about Natal not working but the reality is I make 90% of the Natal threads in the 1st place and they only see the one's that they think is bad.
Edit: looks like the trolls succeeded in their plan to get the other thread closed.
Stop lamenting in edits and keep your own thread on topic.
If you and Darji want to exchange tongue in cheek slants towards other users, do it in PM or VM.
I watched it but it really didn't show anything that we've not already seen to be honest. There isn't much to talk about. Until we see a real kick *** game demonstrating that it works and is responsive and accurate then I think I'm all Natal'd out for now.
Stop lamenting in edits and keep your own thread on topic.
If you and Darji want to exchange tongue in cheek slants towards other users, do it in PM or VM.
I didn't make a tongue in cheek slant I'm being direct! I think it's stupid that the members here that don't like a certain thread can come in it and troll until they get it closed.
that thread needed to be closed because of how things turned out and they wasn't even talking about the interview anymore it was all about how I'm only trying to make Natal look bad.
The other thread wasn't even on topic after the 1st page.
It had no news in it that you hadn't posted before. Other than the flaming title (which wasn't your doing, I know), it was pointless.
The other thread wasn't even on topic after the 1st page.
It had no news in it that you hadn't posted before. Other than the flaming title (which wasn't your doing, I know), it was pointless.
But it did. I for example never know that the camera is guessing. Also he is posting every natal and move article even if there is nothing new to be seen.
The title got off topic a after people accusing him for only bashing natal which is totally wrong.
Good on ya ONQ I'm glad to see a different NATAL kind of thread for a change, props to ya.
But it did. I for example never know that the camera is guessing. Also he is posting every natal and move article even if there is nothing new to be seen.
The title got off topic a after people accusing him for only bashing natal which is totally wrong.
but its not 'guessing' at all.
it was clear that phrase was used highlight the fact that natal isn't pin point accurate. it is an approximation. that isn't 'guessing', that's recording movement less accurately than expensive mo-cap tech.
its like me claiming that the wii is 'guessing' where you are pointing because it isn't as accurate as it could be.
it was an inflamatory article and title - how much genuine discussion would it have received if the title was:
"Natal - not as accurate as motion capture used by movie studios"
:no
but its not 'guessing' at all.
it was clear that phrase was used highlight the fact that natal isn't pin point accurate. it is an approximation. that isn't 'guessing', that's recording movement less accurately than expensive mo-cap tech.
its like me claiming that the wii is 'guessing' where you are pointing because it isn't as accurate as it could be.
it was an inflamatory article and title - how much genuine discussion would it have received if the title was:
"Natal - not as accurate as motion capture used by movie studios"
:noNatal is not as accurate as Wii motion+ or Move. It can do just a bit more then move and many stuff more than Wii motion+
Its not the "revolution" people think it is. Both devices can scan your whole body. both have hand and head tracking etc. Basicly it the same as Move without a controller and move's accurancy. Natal has a advantage by UI interface use while with move you can play games due to buttons and some controller device.
At least that is what i am getting from all these Natal and Move threads
@title:
QNC always copys the title from the article nothing more. It was no bashing or something like that. It was just posting news.
Staticneuron
05-18-2010, 16:26
Good on ya ONQ I'm glad to see a different NATAL kind of thread for a change, props to ya.
Well he constantly post threads on natal so I am not sure what you mean by different natal kind of thread.
but its not 'guessing' at all.
it was clear that phrase was used highlight the fact that natal isn't pin point accurate. it is an approximation. that isn't 'guessing', that's recording movement less accurately than expensive mo-cap tech.
its like me claiming that the wii is 'guessing' where you are pointing because it isn't as accurate as it could be.
it was an inflamatory article and title - how much genuine discussion would it have received if the title was:
"Natal - not as accurate as motion capture used by movie studios"
:no
A guess, an approximation and an estimate can share the same meaning.
There is a meaning of guess that means and estimate based off of little or no information. It is obvious that there is some sort of information being provided so the article is stating that natal is making a ballpark estimate of where you should be.
There is nothing negative about that at all, and I really don't understand the stigma.
Natal is not as accurate as Wii motion+ or Move. It can do just a bit more then move and many stuff more than Wii motion+
Its not the "revolution" people think it is. Both devices can scan your whole body. both have hand and head tracking etc. Basicly it the same as Move without a controller and move's accurancy. Natal has a advantage by UI interface use while with move you can play games due to buttons and some controller device.
At least that is what i am getting from all these Natal and Move threads
@title:
QNC always copys the title from the article nothing more. It was no bashing or something like that. It was just posting news.
There is more to Natal than that. It is more advanced because of the amount of points it tracks (alot) and the sheer fact that it creates a skeletion using Inverse kinematics within its software, which help it greatly.
So far it is more advanced than the PSeye software alone (that "can" track points but doesn't build a skeleton.) Normally most solutions for the PSeye is based off of bounding boxes. Both "approximate" (don't wanna offend by using g word or e word) but Natal has a better back end implementation to drive the information it receives.
Good on ya ONQ I'm glad to see a different NATAL kind of thread for a change, props to ya.
it's not for a change!
http://i49.tinypic.com/5f2ngy.jpg
A guess, an approximation and an estimate can share the same meaning.
There is a meaning of guess that means and estimate based off of little or no information. It is obvious that there is some sort of information being provided so the article is stating that natal is making a ballpark estimate of where you should be.
There is nothing negative about that at all, and I really don't understand the stigma.
absolutely, it can mean the same thing.
however, using the word 'guess' to mean approximation would also mean that the wii, and move, are also 'guessing' - clearly though this is a poor use of the word.
there is a reason why the word 'guess' was used in the article, and not 'approximate' or 'less accurate than x'.
the word 'guess' has connotations of a complete lack of information, whereas an approximation just means that the recorded movement is not exact, but accurate enough for purpose.
the article used the word guess to create a stir and hits.
as for QNQ, I didn't see anything wrong with him posting the article, or anything else. he clearly likes this sort of technology and is just keeping everyone informed. doesn't mean I have to agree with the article. it seemed weak at best.
**edit: i mean look at Darji's response: "i didn't know natal was guessing".
really? he didn't know that it wasn't 100% accurate?
Sub-stance1
05-18-2010, 17:55
I think im the only person here who has actually seen this stuff up close... Ive seen a live demo from prime sense and ive tried the z-cam... This was a few years ago though when ms was'nt in the picture. ONQ just post stuff he finds on the web.. What we got to see from them was very impressive. It wasnt games or anything like that but i did get to try a game on the z-cam.
Staticneuron
05-18-2010, 18:27
The Wii and the Move do not approximate, they track points and relative movement of the device. The PSeye when used alone approximates. Natal Approximates (but with alot more information).
You could be right about the wording... I just feel that maybe a little too much is being read into it.
The Wii and the Move do not approximate, they track points and relative movement of the device. The PSeye when used alone approximates. Natal Approximates (but with alot more information).
You could be right about the wording... I just feel that maybe a little too much is being read into it.
Why dont you include the sticks? I think these are helping alot by trackick your movements. You always should include the sticks and not only try to downsample it with the cam alone.
The Wii and the Move do not approximate, they track points and relative movement of the device. The PSeye when used alone approximates. Natal Approximates (but with alot more information).
You could be right about the wording... I just feel that maybe a little too much is being read into it.
well technically i'd say they do approximate.
if you look at the article, the guy just states that natal isn't as accurate as professional motion capture, which is unsurprising.
i assume that both move and the wii could increase their accuracy - regardless of whether they are tracking points or not.
imo this is one and the same as the accusation being levelled at natal, albeit more severe with natal as it is clearly going to be less accurate
none of them are 100% spot on, so therefore have to make up for this. why one should be called 'guessing' and another assumed to be 'lag' or whatever is what confuses me.
take a control pad. they aren't 100% accurate, and could be bettered - but i wouldn't say they are trying to 'guess' my thumb movements. that's a bit misleading.
but yes, you're right, there isn't any need for a commotion about it. i just took the article with a pinch of salt thats all.
Staticneuron
05-18-2010, 21:55
well technically i'd say they do approximate.
if you look at the article, the guy just states that natal isn't as accurate as professional motion capture, which is unsurprising.
i assume that both move and the wii could increase their accuracy - regardless of whether they are tracking points or not.
imo this is one and the same as the accusation being levelled at natal, albeit more severe with natal as it is clearly going to be less accurate
none of them are 100% spot on, so therefore have to make up for this. why one should be called 'guessing' and another assumed to be 'lag' or whatever is what confuses me.
take a control pad. they aren't 100% accurate, and could be bettered - but i wouldn't say they are trying to 'guess' my thumb movements. that's a bit misleading.
but yes, you're right, there isn't any need for a commotion about it. i just took the article with a pinch of salt thats all.
Ok. There is a difference between tracking points and level of accuracy in fixed devices. The Wii and the Move are accurate tracking because the consoles KNOW where the devices are and then they us additional information from the devices themselves (the gyro's and accelerometers) to track movement of the devices. The wiimotes send their info to the sensor directly and the Move shows up like markers to the PSeye.
Tracking a face or body without markers is approximating. The software is assuming what parts of the body it is looking at. This is the same drawback for both the PSeye and natal.
The reason why a professional setup is using so many cameras and most likely has less lag is because professional mocap is set up to capture marks in 3D space...... and that is it. Someone has to come behind normally, whether it is another program or a person(animator), and clean up the data and make sure the marks are correctly assigned to body parts and didn't switch during capture.
http://stevenhomartialarts.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Activemarker2.PNG
All that is needed for natal to be really on point, is if they sold some sort of material you could wear that acted like markers. But I don't think thats what MS is going for, and I do think people are going overboard with this. MS's goal isn't for the hardcore. I can see it already..... they are aiming for the masses.
my point was that the fact that it is less accurate than other solutions out there doesn't make it 'guessing' (which is the jump the original article made).
wii plus doesn't mean that the standard wii motion sensor has been 'guessing' all along, does it? it just means it isn't as accurate.
natal will be imprecise, for the very reasons you mentioned, but i doubt it will feel any more like guessing than wii bowling does.
Staticneuron
05-18-2010, 22:48
my point was that the fact that it is less accurate than other solutions out there doesn't make it 'guessing' (which is the jump the original article made).
wii plus doesn't mean that the standard wii motion sensor has been 'guessing' all along, does it? it just means it isn't as accurate.
natal will be imprecise, for the very reasons you mentioned, but i doubt it will feel any more like guessing than wii bowling does.
That is the disconnect. Natal isn't less accurate than the other solutions because they aren't doing the same thing at all. The guy said implied it was less accurate than a 12 camera mocap system... which really doesn't need to be said to tell you the truth.
Wii motion plus was an enhancement for the wii mote to give more data about its relative position.
For "tracking" purposes, the Wii and the move are tracking points not people and that is a HUGE difference.
Also, understand what the motion+ and supposedly the move represents. Gesture based movement forgoes, 1:1 tracking and pays attention only to a particualar movement on a scale. The move uses both the camera and the sensors onboard to accurately track where the controller is. Those are mathematically precise. I am not sure why you think they are approximations.
A better example would be that street brawler game shown for the move. It is guessing where your head, shoulders and center mass is and in tandem with the move controls it is trying to guess where you are trying to face as well.
yes, but the fact that wii plus gives it more information about its relative position doesn't mean that it was a guess prior to that does it? it was just less accurate.
just like having 12 cameras could give natal more information.
anyway, you're right, it really doesn't matter that much anyway. i'm sure the thing will be fun for whoever bothers to buy it.
Staticneuron
05-18-2010, 23:12
yes, but the fact that wii plus gives it more information about its relative position doesn't mean that it was a guess prior to that does it? it was just less accurate.
No, because that isn't what the games were looking at.
Getting the motion+ doesn't improve any title that is gesture based.
There are only 19 out of 600+ that support the feature.
An approximation requires an estimate, because of the way gesture based gaming work it doesn't need to be 1:1 to accurately capture the command.
That was my biggest issue with the wii and one of the reasons I sold it. Without 1:1 I felt that most of it was substitution for things regular controllers could do.
I'll tell you that if Milo is a success, (recognizing emotions on player face) the wii can never do that and I have only seen incomplete software for the eye. Natal may push the industry in new ways. That is what I am hoping.
Maybe sega will bring back seaman and you can punch him in his fishy face the next time he says something smart.
Fiddlesworth
05-18-2010, 23:38
This is in Microsoft Australia HQ conditions
Woman standing upright but turned to the left slightly > Avatar shoulders more slanted and whole body slouched with head at a different angle
http://i47.tinypic.com/4iivk9.jpg
Woman and man facing forwards > Avatars facing inwards
http://i49.tinypic.com/apdvr6.jpg
Same again but look at male avatar's left foot
http://i45.tinypic.com/2r5b2xf.jpg
Woman's arm straight > Avatar's arm bent pointing inwards (this isn't just lag during a fast motion, the Avatar's upper arm angle quickly flicks back and forth between positions)
http://i50.tinypic.com/2w2n1h5.jpg
Male avatar's legs separate very unnaturally here
http://i45.tinypic.com/fc3eox.jpg
Right avatar's right foot kicks at an awkward angle, avatar so off-balance it seems the player would have fallen over to produce this
http://i46.tinypic.com/16kxusx.jpg
Woman stands up from crouching > Avatar stands up and hops off the ground
http://i49.tinypic.com/2nly63r.jpg
Woman crouches down > Avatar's legs fold up in the wrong direction and spastic hands
http://i48.tinypic.com/2nlr9g1.jpg
YouTube- Project Natal and Playstation Move demo on ACA 18/5/10
youtube link
This is in Microsoft Australia HQ conditions
Woman standing upright but turned to the left slightly > Avatar shoulders more slanted and whole body slouched with head at a different angle
http://i47.tinypic.com/4iivk9.jpg
Woman and man facing forwards > Avatars facing inwards
http://i49.tinypic.com/apdvr6.jpg
Same again but look at male avatar's left foot
http://i45.tinypic.com/2r5b2xf.jpg
Woman's arm straight > Avatar's arm bent pointing inwards (this isn't just lag during a fast motion, the Avatar's upper arm angle quickly flicks back and forth between positions)
http://i50.tinypic.com/2w2n1h5.jpg
Male avatar's legs separate very unnaturally here
http://i45.tinypic.com/fc3eox.jpg
Right avatar's right foot kicks at an awkward angle, avatar so off-balance it seems the player would have fallen over to produce this
http://i46.tinypic.com/16kxusx.jpg
Woman stands up from crouching > Avatar stands up and hops off the ground
http://i49.tinypic.com/2nly63r.jpg
Woman crouches down > Avatar's legs fold up in the wrong direction and spastic hands
http://i48.tinypic.com/2nlr9g1.jpg
this just makes me smile!
**edit: i mean look at Darji's response: "i didn't know natal was guessing".
really? he didn't know that it wasn't 100% accurate? No i did not know it. I thought it would track it accurate in the end but it seems like its not. You will have a high chance that natal will "guess" it right I am sure but when its important and you fail because of this in games. It will be frustrating
Staticneuron
05-19-2010, 11:05
No i did not know it. I thought it would track it accurate in the end but it seems like its not. You will have a high chance that natal will "guess" it right I am sure but when its important and you fail because of this in games. It will be frustrating
If a game dev knows the range of the estimate then they won't design it for greater precision than what can be handled. You won't fail games because of this. Developers are pretty smart.
Fiddlesworth
05-19-2010, 14:50
this just makes me smile!
You're happy it's regularly so inaccurate, even when Microsoft themselves demonstrate it?
Two4DaMoney
05-19-2010, 15:06
this just makes me smile!
Yea, that last picture with the knees, yea...that was funny. I lol'd
You're happy it's regularly so inaccurate, even when Microsoft themselves demonstrate it?
No I smile because people constantly dissect and analyze this richochet thing to prove / disprove whether Natal works. It is a sample piece of code, constantly evolving to give people a glimpse into Natal.
We haven't seen a single piece of real hardware, real software, etc... to make any sort of definitive judgement on the item.
Sorta like screenshots isn't it? Anything can be made to look bad if you capture it at the right time.
I smiled because I KNEW that post was coming. I smile because I have a feeling MS is purposefully only showing this particular program because the real software is coming at E3.
I think plenty of people will be surprised, but I could be wrong.. Natal could be a piece of junk too that they truly can't get working, but I doubt HIGHLY the end result will resemble the software/hardware you are having a fun time with now.
it's not for a change!
This was not an insult at you, not directly nor indirectly, just chill.
This was saying it;s nice top see you find some info with a source that was not un-necessarily critical of the technology. The fact that lately all your other threads have been tinged with downfall of NATAL in them either because of the source or some general posters that do their usual is not your fault because you're just the guy posting that info here.
So relax, not judging you, it's good to see a change that's all. :)
You're happy it's regularly so inaccurate, even when Microsoft themselves demonstrate it?
chances are he is smiling at certain individuals' obsessions with the demise of anything 360 related.
Fiddlesworth
05-19-2010, 20:18
chances are he is smiling at certain individuals' obsessions with the demise of anything 360 related.
I thought calling people out crap was banned now. Or just in the other thread? :lol:
No I smile because people constantly dissect and analyze this richochet thing to prove / disprove whether Natal works. It is a sample piece of code, constantly evolving to give people a glimpse into Natal.
You don't think they're using one of their most polished demos for this and shouldn't the constant evolution give us something that's now reliable 4-5 months before release? Developers rely on the Natal hardware and detection algorithms being reliable to finetune their games, too.
We haven't seen a single piece of real hardware, real software, etc... to make any sort of definitive judgement on the item.
Cutting it fine don't you think?
Sorta like screenshots isn't it? Anything can be made to look bad if you capture it at the right time.
You don't think game controllers should be 100% reliable? I didn't have to frame through the whole video to find these mis-matches and the ones in the recent white-room demonstrations.
I smiled because I KNEW that post was coming. I smile because I have a feeling MS is purposefully only showing this particular program because the real software is coming at E3.
They purposefully show something a bit broken on Australian national TV?
I think plenty of people will be surprised, but I could be wrong.. Natal could be a piece of junk too that they truly can't get working, but I doubt HIGHLY the end result will resemble the software/hardware you are having a fun time with now.
Yeah, fun times Microsoft wasting money on this and third-party timed-exclusives when they could be developing a bunch more quality first-party games like they did on the original Xbox.
I thought calling people out crap was banned now. Or just in the other thread? :lol:
Didn't necessarily call you out did I? Feeling guilty? I said, I expected this post to come (didn't say from you). I also said certain individuals, so unless you are suffering from multiple personality disorder, it didn't mean you soley.
You don't think they're using one of their most polished demos for this and shouldn't the constant evolution give us something that's now reliable 4-5 months before release? Developers rely on the Natal hardware and detection algorithms being reliable to finetune their games, too.
No, I think they are showing a demo that works, and lets people see what is possible. Like the guy in the video says, 5 people in the entire country of Australia has access to that room. Pretty tight security eh? Cause they don't want leaks showing the titles to come or exactly what the final hardware is capable of. Doesn't give the opposition time to counter what they don't see coming.
Also, really.... it is reliable. People can just hop in and play the game, and play it with no complaints. Whether or not your avatars foot can be seen, or his knee bends backwards isn't going to be a game breaker to people playing casuals. They are showing a functional demo with graphical glitches. Hell, I saw a video of RED DEAD REDEMPTION where the main man walks through his horse to put a nun on the back of it. Maybe they should recall that, since it is obviously broken.
Cutting it fine don't you think?
Huh?
You don't think game controllers should be 100% reliable? I didn't have to frame through the whole video to find these mis-matches and the ones in the recent white-room demonstrations.
You should read up, even controllers are not 100% reliable. Missed button presses, inconsistent d-pads, fluctuations in pressure sensitive triggers...etc... When Natal was initially shown, it was widely reported that the lag was miniscule, not even the Burnout demo was broken by lag, although not many people could really drive that well. Not until more of the lovely frame by frame people came along was the lag quantified to what, 120ms on the early dev pieces? Now, it is barely noticeable unless you scrutinize a video?
They purposefully show something a bit broken on Australian national TV?
No, they are showing a functional, albeit boring demo. Notice not one funny reaction on that video about how it responded? They didn't seem to notice anything at all. They just were having fun.
Yeah, fun times Microsoft wasting money on this and third-party timed-exclusives when they could be developing a bunch more quality first-party games like they did on the original Xbox.
And look where that got them... they are making money hand over fist with 3rd party software, Live, etc... They have plenty of quality titles. I don't care if they are 1st party, 3rd party, 2nd, 4th, who cares... the games are fun to play on all systems I own. Gaming is important to me as a gamer. Not who publishes what, or where it is programmed. I do not feel a false need to support a company (again, not aiming at you) because they focus on in house gaming design. Sony and MS have different visions of business models and it seems to work for both.
Responses in bold above
Fiddlesworth
05-19-2010, 21:00
Didn't necessarily call you out did I? Feeling guilty? I said, I expected this post to come (didn't say from you). I also said certain individuals, so unless you are suffering from multiple personality disorder, it didn't mean you soley.
Is J3ff3 an alternative account of yours or something?
Also, really.... it is reliable. People can just hop in and play the game, and play it with no complaints. Whether or not your avatars foot can be seen, or his knee bends backwards isn't going to be a game breaker to people playing casuals. They are showing a functional demo with graphical glitches. Hell, I saw a video of RED DEAD REDEMPTION where the main man walks through his horse to put a nun on the back of it. Maybe they should recall that, since it is obviously broken.
Great example with RDR, what do you lose exactly when the character clips through the horse?
Don't tell me other action games won't suffer like Ricochet where a body part in the wrong place means losing a point, game, match or whatever. You really are saying 100% reliability isn't important! Pretty damning of casual gamers if you think they don't care.
You should read up, even controllers are not 100% reliable. Missed button presses, inconsistent d-pads, fluctuations in pressure sensitive triggers...etc... When Natal was initially shown, it was widely reported that the lag was miniscule, not even the Burnout demo was broken by lag, although not many people could really drive that well. Not until more of the lovely frame by frame people came along was the lag quantified to what, 120ms on the early dev pieces? Now, it is barely noticeable unless you scrutinize a video?
My controllers are all 100% reliable. Except my 360 controllers DPads. Might want to get yours replaced if other things are malfunctioning.
Who said anything about lag? It's completely mismatching body part positioning, not just catching up. I haven't even seen a working Burnout demo, got a link? The videos I saw it wasn't providing a responsive experience worthy of controller replacement. Just lots of crashing into side barriers.
No, they are showing a functional, albeit boring demo. Notice not one funny reaction on that video about how it responded? They didn't seem to notice anything at all. They just were having fun.
You expect the NBC reporter to make a fool of the MS dude there and then? "why did my character jump when I didn't?" yeah right.
Is J3ff3 an alternative account of yours or something?
"individuals' obsessions"
plural
if you think you fit that description that's fine.
as i said, he was smiling because he knew it would happen
I think you need to watch the video again, you can clearly see the knees on the avatar folding properly.
The graphical problem is the feet clip into the avatars rear.
Every problem highlighted in the pictures can be attributed to the fact that it is still very much a beta program and they haven't fully optimized the graphics.
or, if one hates ms, you can say that it is because they can't get it to work and this is all MS can show because of that.
Regardless, still haven't seen final hardware... and ANY other software.
Looking forward to seeing what MOVE AND Natal drop at E3 :)
I enjoyed the video, showed Natal under some low light conditions too.
I enjoyed the video, showed Natal under some low light conditions too.
Not really, The room around them was dark but the 2 subjects were lite well with lights. This will emphasise the subjects making it easier for the camera to track them.
I watched this on TV and to me it looked a little glitchy, sure it's a Beta but I would have thought that this would be more solid by now. Also don't they have anything else to show us besides this Ball game and Burnout Paradise??
MS themselves has made a choice not to show the final hardware until E3. But it has already been stated that Natal can work in any light conditions.
MS themselves has made a choice not to show the final hardware until E3. But it has already been stated that Natal can work in any light conditions.
Fair enough.. but my question is "How well" will it work in low light? If This is going to control my interface and allow me to play games I would want it to work flawlessly in any light condition.
higgos22
05-20-2010, 05:56
that kid was funny
"is mine baby!"
And I did not see that
well hopefully it raises awareness too people about Natal (which i been pronouncing wrong too these guys[and was surprised that not it official name]) And playstation Move and 3D gaming
I think you need to watch the video again, you can clearly see the knees on the avatar folding properly.
The graphical problem is the feet clip into the avatars rear.
Every problem highlighted in the pictures can be attributed to the fact that it is still very much a beta program and they haven't fully optimized the graphics.
or, if one hates ms, you can say that it is because they can't get it to work and this is all MS can show because of that.
Regardless, still haven't seen final hardware... and ANY other software.
Looking forward to seeing what MOVE AND Natal drop at E3 :)Ok you really think they are running the same build for over a year now? Natal had these problems at the begining and still has it. And I am sure they can not fix it until E3 and you will see a lot of give whith these results^^
it's not for a change!
http://i49.tinypic.com/5f2ngy.jpg
Damn, that's a lot of threads. Although it probably won't happen you can make a case for sub-forum or at least a Natal & Move sub-forum.
Fiddlesworth
05-20-2010, 13:10
Depth tracking with IR will work under any lighting conditions but depth alone wont always give a clear separation of body parts so it's important to have a clear picture from the regular camera too which means plenty of light, preferably natural light so there's no yellow tint, less grain.
Ok you really think they are running the same build for over a year now? Natal had these problems at the begining and still has it. And I am sure they can not fix it until E3 and you will see a lot of give whith these results^^
Don't ask questions like that... :bang:
You, me and everyone else can see that they have improved up richochet with each new showing, they just aren't putting the full effort into making it a final, polished title. No need for glamor if they are just showing it as a tech demo, not a title demo.
Depth tracking with IR will work under any lighting conditions but depth alone wont always give a clear separation of body parts so it's important to have a clear picture from the regular camera too which means plenty of light, preferably natural light so there's no yellow tint, less grain.
How would the regular camera picture help in picking out body parts? bearing in mind that clothes come in all different shapes and colours. I'm just curious as to what features (visible features in the camera image) the software can use to help.
Don't ask questions like that... :bang:
You, me and everyone else can see that they have improved up richochet with each new showing, they just aren't putting the full effort into making it a final, polished title. No need for glamor if they are just showing it as a tech demo, not a title demo.
to be honest you can only really see that the look of the game changed because even in the new videos the same things are still happening.
but for the most part the glitches are visual so smart coding can hide these things near the end of development if you can't see it, I don't think it will bother anyone.
YouTube- Sega super stars BH gameplay
YouTube- NIghts - Sega Superstars Hard
YouTube- Eyetoy Antigrav Skyway Level 3 Run 1
YouTube- Video Game Monkey
YouTube- Omek Interactive Demo
sometimes less is more they can remove the little movements that show the flaws.
to be honest you can only really see that the look of the game changed because even in the new videos the same things are still happening.
but for the most part the glitches are visual so smart coding can hide these things near the end of development if you can't see it, I don't think it will bother anyone.
YouTube- Sega super stars BH gameplay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41NvFdUlv6g)
YouTube- NIghts - Sega Superstars Hard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKHlVLWepVk)
YouTube- Eyetoy Antigrav Skyway Level 3 Run 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nju5PrqtLaM)
YouTube- Video Game Monkey (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCQBcPyo3A)
YouTube- Omek Interactive Demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReQrtGNq5P0)
sometimes less is more they can remove the little movements that show the flaws.
That was sort of my point, I guess LMAO
I was trying to convey that it is my opinion that they are not sinking resources into the tech demo, Richochet, as if it were a release title. They have it functional, and fun apparently to the users, so that the tech can be showcased. Yes, it has its flaws, but like you said in the end products, if it is still a problem there are ways to help mask it.
Fiddlesworth
05-21-2010, 02:10
How would the regular camera picture help in picking out body parts? bearing in mind that clothes come in all different shapes and colours. I'm just curious as to what features (visible features in the camera image) the software can use to help.
Shadow between the upper arm and torso when not clearly separated, that sort of thing.
Oh, and I just got a warning for discussing what's broken with Natal in the video starting this thread so watch out if you don't have something positive to say!
Shadow between the upper arm and torso when not clearly separated, that sort of thing.
Oh, and I just got a warning for discussing what's broken with Natal in the video starting this thread so watch out if you don't have something positive to say!
Your warning was for a long history of posts. If you have a problem with it, then pm the mod. Making smart comments backhandedly like this will likely result in more than a warning.
Keep on topic and keep your personal issues in pm's please.
Shadow between the upper arm and torso when not clearly separated, that sort of thing.
I see where you are coming from but feel that there are too many variables that the software needs to know to make that sort of information useful i.e. the position and direction of the light sources in the room relative to you.
I see where you are coming from but feel that there are too many variables that the software needs to know to make that sort of information useful i.e. the position and direction of the light sources in the room relative to you.
You are correct, Fiddlesworth supposition that "depth alone wont pick up body parts is" is slightly wrong, its certianly enough to pick up the key parts, this thing 'isnt looking for your entire body its lokking for, writs elbow, shoulders etc, your main points. Thats the part of the software to interpret, and form what I've seen the normal camera isnt used at all for any sort of work. It's merely there to pick up the image.
Check this out...
YouTube- Project Natal: Behind-the-scenes