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Sub-stance1
08-21-2010, 06:01
Greenberg: 360 will maintain it's position above the competition (http://themindchannel.blogspot.com/2010/08/greenberg-360-will-maintain-its.html)



http://imgur.com/lCoLi.jpg (http://imgur.com/lCoLi.jpg)

The holiday wars for the living room supremacy will begin soon and Microsoft feels very confident that their plans will come to fruition. Microsoft's product manager Aaron Greenberg, has told The Mind Channel that their latest offerings will help maintain 360's position on top of the competition.




"Xbox 360 has held its market share globally, selling more than 20 million Xbox consoles in the U.S. and more than 40 million worldwide."
"The new Xbox 360 250GB, Kinect for Xbox 360 and great game and LIVE entertainment releases this year will help us grow and maintain our position above the competition."

Is Microsoft poised to rule this holiday season? We'll have to wait and see about that but things are looking good according to the Xbox honcho.

Stay tuned for our full interview with Aaron Greenberg in which we'll talk about their appearance at Gamescom, Kinect, the importance of the Final Fantasy series, their admiration for Hideo Kojima and more.
http://themindchannel.blogspot.com/2010/08/greenberg-360-will-maintain-its.html

Guess we'll find out after this holiday... i must admit they are in a good position with the 360s and kinect momentum. We shall see.

LaOMaN
08-21-2010, 06:36
???? wii already kicking xbox360 *** wtf are they talking about

skynet212
08-21-2010, 06:40
I always looked at it like this: 360 vs. PS3. Wii is alone. PC is alone. Wii is and will always butt rape both 360 and PS3.

Sub-stance1
08-21-2010, 07:20
I always looked at it like this: 360 vs. PS3. Wii is alone. PC is alone. Wii is and will always butt rape both 360 and PS3.


yep...when he says competition he clearly means the ps3 because there isnt a chance in hell that neither will catch nintendo wii this gen.

labwarrior
08-21-2010, 07:43
Wii is no compeition in HD consoles i guess

Roadside
08-21-2010, 08:03
Wii isn't competiton, huh? Is that why both companies are hard at work on motion controls? Both companies don't want to admit that Nintendo is a competitor because they are getting spanked so badly by them. It would be a real embarassment for both Microsoft and Sony to say, even if we combine our numbers, we would still not be able to touch Nintendo's sales.

So, they just act as if the Wii's success doesn't exist or just say they aren't the 'real' competition. I find the whole thing quite humorous, honestly. :lol:

lordmadjack
08-21-2010, 08:48
Sony has a 10 year life cycle plan for their system, I'm sure MS has a similar plan, Nintendo, probably not, so the Wii could still be surpassed as far as sales are concerned. On top of that I expect both Kinect and Move to bring in a good amount of sales for the two companies respectfully...

MS currently holds the lead over the PS3 with I believe about 40 million sales in the states, but PS3 is close behind with about 36-37 million, so MS will have to rely heavily on Kinect, luckily MS has two real heavy hitters soon with the release of the greatly anticipated Halo Reach and Fable 3, but after that a lull before Gears 3, meanwhile Sony and Nintendo will be good for the rest of the year and have many amazing 1st party titles announced for both 2010 and 2011, so MS may find themselves in a tight spot after Halo Reach...

Basically it will likely boil down to how well Kinect is received...

labwarrior
08-21-2010, 09:13
Wii is not direct competition, it does not get most of the multipltform games PC/360/PS3 share and is not HD, so makes sense for someone with Wii to get a PS3/360 and get a 100% different game library

In both these ways Wii is not a direct competitor, more like a unique different offering that can go with any other console

If MS/Sony were to sacrifice HD gaming and hardware for sales, with a 200$ starting price, then would probably have similar sales to Wii

I totally agree that they envy Wii success though and try now to copy them, i find it good though, since we get the best of both worlds that way and Kinect is far more next gen too

UkHardcore
08-21-2010, 10:00
The 360 & PS3 is no competition to the Wii ;) MS & Sony like to kid there self on that the Wii is no competition to them :lol:

carlosb
08-21-2010, 10:22
The Wii is competition no matter what anybody says, and it's kicking everybody's ***. Who do you think pushed the Ps2 pass a 100+ million consoles sold? Yeah, casuals that's who. Both companies know it.

A7
08-21-2010, 10:28
Guess we'll find out after this holiday... i must admit they are in a good position with the 360s and kinect momentum. We shall see.

Not to forget Halo Reach next month - right throughout the year.

Edit:


???? wii already kicking xbox360 *** wtf are they talking about

He means the PS3.

Nintendo is a competitor as far as I'm concerned but a lot of forum members (especially this forum) have always found it easy to declare the Wii outside this HD console race. Unless they have changed their stance just for this article of course :p

360/PS3's fight is for the living room with all their services and features they include where as the Wii, not so much outside of gaming.

arfi-gorgona-O
08-21-2010, 10:28
A man can dream right?

A7
08-21-2010, 10:40
A man can dream right?

Indeed they can :)

Dasimpse
08-21-2010, 11:26
I still think it's crazy that even with Rrod the xbox has done more or less double what the xbox did in the same time frame. The fact that this is it's 5th year and it's still kicking is great. Sonys sales were somewhat of a given this gen. If the xbox had started a year later with some of the same bumps I honestly think that the xbox would be dead. They have done a good fight really. I mean Sony is like a seasons vet with over 100's of million of consoles sold and the little xbox came into this gen with like 22 million sold. If you actually stop and think about it, it's crazy

*goo
08-21-2010, 11:33
I'm still at a loss as to how PC and Wii gaming is not considered 'competition'.

They're all operating within the videogame space, fighting for the consumer *pound. It strikes me as picking and choosing to try and make your proposition seem like it's market leading. In this case, it's not.

If the real statement is 'we will maintain a lead over Sony' they should just come right out and say it.

*change as appropriate

A7
08-21-2010, 11:38
I agree with you, bar the PC as it attracts a different audience in many cases (not all).

We all know who MS is referring to here, they say it without using the word "Sony".

lordmadjack
08-21-2010, 15:22
No matter how you slice it, Wii get's gamers dollars and is thus seen as competition, that is the reason for the casual push from both parties, but when it comes to gamers in general, the two audiences are very different. You have the HD gaming audience and the casual audience and I think this reason MS views Sony as their rival is based more on the fact that they KNOW Sony can get almost any third party game from them, snatch up exclusives the same as them and get DLC that's exclusive as well. Basically things that will sway the HD audience, I'm sure the same is true for MS and how Sony views them.

I guess the point I'm making is Nintendo is a threat in that it whoops them in sales, but when it comes to hardware and games for said hardware they're not really seen as an issue (the Wii is hardly about to steal Portal 2, Mass Effect 3 etc) I also think the big N would be considered more of a threat if the 3rd party titles had sold better on the Wii, encouraging more to go Wii friendly...

Lurker00
08-21-2010, 15:54
The Wii is competition no matter what anybody says, and it's kicking everybody's ***. Who do you think pushed the Ps2 pass a 100+ million consoles sold? Yeah, casuals that's who. Both companies know it.

I agree.

Galvanise_
08-21-2010, 16:04
It all comes down to who has more price cuts in them, and who has more global appeal. Sony have the higher price and therefore can cut prices more by revising their hardware, and Playstation is more popular in Japan and the EU than Xbox. I think the 360 will widen the gap with the launch of Kinect and because of the recently launched 360S, but I think long term, the PS3 will pass the 360. Outside of the UK, the PS3 tends to outpace the 360 in the EU, and Japan probably can't be won by Microsoft. I think Sony's exclusives and marketing in the US will help turn the tide there. I don't ever think they'll pass the 360 in the US, but I think they'll eventually close the gap enough for the leads in the EU and Asia to help them pass the 360.

The gaming landscape is very different to when Microsoft launched the 360. Sony have got the price down to a more competitive point, their marketing is getting better (particularly in the US), a lot of the franchises that were console exclusive to the 360 towards the beginning of the generation (Mass Effect, Dead Rising, Bioshock and others) are now multiplatform and future iterations will be too. Then there is the consideration of new IP, which for the most part will be multiplatform unless funded by one of the console holders. This is where I think Sony's first party separates itself from Microsoft. Its a key differentiator. One platform gets all of the 3rd party multiplatform games and less exclusives and the other gets most of the 3rd party multiplats and a lot of exclusives.

The unknown factor at this stage is the motion control solutions. I think Move will be bigger in the EU and Asian territories, but Kinect will win the US handily.

Judging by the things Sony has in the oven at the moment that are unannounced, those could be key factors for buyers too. We'll need to see how the piracy situation plays out on that though.

arfi-gorgona-O
08-21-2010, 16:17
Ah the piracy might as well make the PS3 hardware skyrocket,i dont even think for a moment that the 360 would have sold that much if it wasn't for piracy too.Just wait and see.

Galvanise_
08-21-2010, 16:38
Ah the piracy might as well make the PS3 hardware skyrocket,i dont even think for a moment that the 360 would have sold that much if it wasn't for piracy too.Just want and see.

It sounds odd, but it also wouldn't have sold as well as it would have if it wasn't so unreliable. I know people who have purchased 4 or 5 360's simply because when they've had theirs returned to them from Microsoft, they've still been unreliable.

I know we'll never get the figures, but I'd love to see the number of active PS3's and active 360's.

AaronSOLDIER
08-21-2010, 16:54
The 360 & PS3 is no competition to the Wii ;) MS & Sony like to kid there self on that the Wii is no competition to them :lol:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall reading that Sony said Wii wasn't their competition, and looking at current sales the Wii is actually slowing right down so who knows what could happen we still have 3 or 4 years left this gen, I'm dreaming but whatever I guess it would be awesome to see a HD console outsell the Wii.

arfi-gorgona-O
08-21-2010, 16:55
It sounds odd, but it also wouldn't have sold as well as it would have if it wasn't so unreliable. I know people who have purchased 4 or 5 360's simply because when they've had theirs returned to them from Microsoft, they've still been unreliable.

I know we'll never get the figures, but I'd love to see the number of active PS3's and active 360's.

I wanted to say that too but i decided not too,cause some people might not like it,but its definitely the truth :lol: Still what matters in the end,is the outcome,now lets wait for the PS3 outcome too ;)

A7
08-21-2010, 17:01
I know people who have purchased 4 or 5 360's simply because when they've had theirs returned to them from Microsoft, they've still been unreliable.

I agree with that notion, however in all fairness. I've purchased 3 PS3's since 2007; 1 had a GPU issue and was sold. The last PS3 phat I had I sold just over a month ago I think it was (freezing in games, play tv, vidzone) and now I have a slim.

So whilst I agree that there are individuals who did buy more than 2 360's even though MS was providing 3 year warranties (MS was replacing them and they would also RROD which does not cost the consumer nor count as sales), it works both ways for both corporations respectively.

skulpt
08-21-2010, 17:08
If having declining sales over last year while PS3 sales reach 13M a year is staying above, I'd hate to see what they define as being on par or being below. LOL. I do think they have a nice surge going with Reach and the new slimmer models along with the discounts of the older models, and Kinect, but they've been losing market share to the PS3 for months up until probably this last month. Now Sony will have discounted older models + Move + GT5 for a boost as well. GT5 is going to seriously move consoles in Europe and Japan. Probably enough to somewhat counter Reach's potential to be a system seller.

bachlab99
08-21-2010, 17:08
It sounds odd, but it also wouldn't have sold as well as it would have if it wasn't so unreliable. I know people who have purchased 4 or 5 360's simply because when they've had theirs returned to them from Microsoft, they've still been unreliable.

I know we'll never get the figures, but I'd love to see the number of active PS3's and active 360's.

How do you explain the software sales then, which regularly sell at similar ratios to console sales?

mistercrow
08-21-2010, 17:09
Wii isn't competiton, huh? Is that why both companies are hard at work on motion controls? Both companies don't want to admit that Nintendo is a competitor because they are getting spanked so badly by them. It would be a real embarassment for both Microsoft and Sony to say, even if we combine our numbers, we would still not be able to touch Nintendo's sales.

So, they just act as if the Wii's success doesn't exist or just say they aren't the 'real' competition. I find the whole thing quite humorous, honestly. :lol: I agree.

A7
08-21-2010, 17:12
How do you explain the software sales then, which regularly sell at similar ratios to console sales?

I have friends here in Australia that have 360's in every bedroom.

I first assumed it was for piracy but you'd freak how many truly had them as media extenders. I **** you not.

arfi-gorgona-O
08-21-2010, 17:16
I agree with that notion, however in all fairness. I've purchased 3 PS3's since 2007; 1 had a GPU issue and was sold. The last PS3 phat I had I sold just over a month ago I think it was (freezing in games, play tv, vidzone) and now I have a slim.

So whilst I agree that there are individuals who did buy more than 2 360's even though MS was providing 3 year warranties (MS was replacing them and they would also RROD which does not cost the consumer nor count as sales), it works both ways for both corporations respectively.

Yeah it works for both the only difference is the %

A7
08-21-2010, 17:18
Yeah it works for both the only difference is the %

I agree but then factor another reality...


How do you explain the software sales then, which regularly sell at similar ratios to console sales?

Like to explain this? If I own let's say (example) 6 360's (5 had RROD), the ratio of sold games does not exactly support the notion you're pushing...

arfi-gorgona-O
08-21-2010, 17:24
What does this prove?It can be so many things.While the hardware numbers is something solid.

A7
08-21-2010, 17:28
What does this prove?It can be so many things.While the hardware numbers is something solid.

What do you mean what does it prove, it's a question, if you don't want to answer or you don't know at least say that...

Like I just told you, whilst I agree failures do lead to re-buys and it was the case for me with my 360 when it RROD and my 2 PS3's when 1 died and the other was dying, however the game:console ratio doesn't solidify your 'solid' stance.

Just saying.

arfi-gorgona-O
08-21-2010, 17:37
What do you mean what does it prove, it's a question, if you don't want to answer or you don't know at least say that...

Like I just told you, whilst I agree failures do lead to re-buys and it was the case for me with my 360 when it RROD and my 2 PS3's when 1 died and the other was dying, however the game:console ratio doesn't solidify your 'solid' stance.

Just saying.

Well since you acknowledge too that failures (and i will add bans too),lead to re-buys,it can only mean 1 thing.That the 360 audience are simply buying more games for their system.And since the 360 is well known for the online gaming,people with 2-3 system in their houses might as well buy more than one game copy too,to play with friends or Lan parties or whatever is called.

Galvanise_
08-21-2010, 17:38
Like to explain this? If I own let's say (example) 6 360's (5 had RROD), the ratio of sold games does not exactly support the notion you're pushing...

Thats easy. A lot more people buy 360's for games because it isn't as good as the PS3 at being a media center. Think of all the people that bought the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player (for quite a while it was the cheapest on the market) and never bought a single game.

I know precisely eight people who are like that. No interest in gaming at all, but they pounced on a PS3 because of its Blu-Ray drive.

A7
08-21-2010, 17:44
Thats easy. A lot more people buy 360's for games because it isn't as good as the PS3 at being a media center. Think of all the people that bought the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player (for quite a while it was the cheapest on the market) and never bought a single game.

I know precisely eight people who are like that. No interest in gaming at all, but they pounced on a PS3 because of its Blu-Ray drive.

So you're saying people with 360's purchase more games on the 360 because it is better suited for games & not being a media center? I may be confused but how does that come into play with the ratio's?

I ask arfi the same question.

TDbank24
08-21-2010, 17:49
Indeed Microsoft will keep their position. Holding that silver medal proudly.

arfi-gorgona-O
08-21-2010, 17:51
And i answered :lol:

I was in a shop that does mods when i wanted to exchange my RRod 360 1-2 years ago.They had at least 30 dead 360 that never gone to Ms.What more proof do i need?

Galvanise_
08-21-2010, 17:51
So you're saying people with 360's purchase more games on the 360 because it is better suited for games & not being a media center? I may be confused but how does that come into play with the ratio's?

I ask arfi the same question.

The 360 has a higher attach rate for several factors. Live is a big one. People will want to play online games with their friends and buy games on the 360 because their friends do. That drives the attach rate up. If we look at the demographics that the consoles appeal to, the PS3 has a great appeal for the older or more mature gamer with more money, whereas the 360 has always been cheaper and therefore appeals more to younger gamers who buy more games. Younger gamers buy more games per year on average than older gamers because they have much more time to game, even though the older gamers have a greater disposable income.

So even though a PS3 user may play games, he or she will buy less games on average because of the demographic they fall into. The Xbox gamer, though on average having less disposable income, will spend more of that income on gaming.

We also have to factor in how poor some PS3 ports have been. Those will drive multiformat owners into buying it for the 360 instead of the PS3.

carlosb
08-21-2010, 17:56
Thats easy. A lot more people buy 360's for games because it isn't as good as the PS3 at being a media center. Think of all the people that bought the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player (for quite a while it was the cheapest on the market) and never bought a single game.

I know precisely eight people who are like that. No interest in gaming at all, but they pounced on a PS3 because of its Blu-Ray drive.

But you also know people that have bought 4 or 5 360's. Let's say you know 5 people that's 20(assuming the last one works for each of the 5) 360's vs 8 PS3 with 0 games. Theoretically if this was the general case, the 360 ratio should be lower.

A7
08-21-2010, 17:58
And i answered :lol:

I was in a shop that does mods when i wanted to exchange my RRod 360 1-2 years ago.They had at least 30 dead 360 that never gone to Ms.What more proof do i need?

? :lol:

You're speaking about people re-buying a new system that means even more games need to be purchased than they currently are to keep up with the console:games ratio...

Bans = more consoles but to keep the ratio to say 8:1, people buying more new consoles need to buy more new games.

Those who get banned are banned for backups, not games they purchased and the RROD owners don't go out and buy the same game again because they had a RROD (in a majority people let MS exchange them another 360 and not buy another either).

bachlab99
08-21-2010, 18:00
:lol:

Galvanise_
08-21-2010, 18:01
But you also know people that have bought 4 or 5 360's. Let's say you know 5 people that's 20(assuming the last one works for each of the 5) 360's vs 8 PS3 with 0 games. Theoretically if this was the general case, the 360 ratio should be lower.

I don't think we can assume everyone has had 5 360's. That would bring it more in line with the ratio we know of. Some people have had only one and still have only one. They could have 40 games for that one system.

coolguy
08-21-2010, 18:03
this hoilday is going to be a war if sony was smart they would drop the ps3 to 199 to match the 360s 199 price point

Galvanise_
08-21-2010, 18:04
this hoilday is going to be a war if sony was smart they would drop the ps3 to 199 to match the 360s 199 price point

They'd lose money. They are making a profit on every Playstation Move and Sub-controller sold from the get go, and the PS3 has just recently reached profitability. I don't think the Sony board would approve a cut so soon after it just started making them money. Its a lot cheaper to make a 360 than it is a PS3.

A7
08-21-2010, 18:07
If there was a price drop I expect MS to be the first right now, but they don't need to right now.

NARCsnake
08-21-2010, 18:15
i always seen the PS3 on bottom like a Cute lil girl ;)

Staticneuron
08-21-2010, 18:33
Wii isn't competiton, huh? Is that why both companies are hard at work on motion controls? Both companies don't want to admit that Nintendo is a competitor because they are getting spanked so badly by them. It would be a real embarassment for both Microsoft and Sony to say, even if we combine our numbers, we would still not be able to touch Nintendo's sales.

So, they just act as if the Wii's success doesn't exist or just say they aren't the 'real' competition. I find the whole thing quite humorous, honestly. :lol:

No matter how many times it is said the answer is in the games. It is obvious "who" is catering to "which" type of market because of the top 10-20 sales of each console. The Wii is a competitor....... but not in the markets the PS3 and the 360 were catering to. Now it seems as if they want to go after the casuals and their titles are starting to back it up.

I can never see how people really thought that games like wii sports, halo 3 and god of war 3 were going after the same demographic. Seriously, you do not see the odd one out?

arfi-gorgona-O
08-21-2010, 18:56
? :lol:

You're speaking about people re-buying a new system that means even more games need to be purchased than they currently are to keep up with the console:games ratio...

Bans = more consoles but to keep the ratio to say 8:1, people buying more new consoles need to buy more new games.

Those who get banned are banned for backups, not games they purchased and the RROD owners don't go out and buy the same game again because they had a RROD (in a majority people let MS exchange them another 360 and not buy another either).


I think we are mixed up a bit,maybe its the way i said it.I apologize for this.I was talking about 2 different things here.

1.Was the actual working systems thus why i said about RRod systems too that never gone back to Ms.Meaning that a high % of Ms sales aren't working systems.This had to do more with what Galvanise said and not with you.


2 Was my answer to you,want me to write it again?

Here you go then.


The 360 audience are simply buying more games for their system.And since the 360 is well known for the online gaming,people with 2-3 system in their houses might as well buy more than one game copy too,to play with friends or Lan parties or whatever is called.

Even tough Galvanise said it a lot better than me,and since i didn't see you addressing his post.Does that mean you agree with him?

Dasimpse
08-21-2010, 19:02
It sounds odd, but it also wouldn't have sold as well as it would have if it wasn't so unreliable. I know people who have purchased 4 or 5 360's simply because when they've had theirs returned to them from Microsoft, they've still been unreliable.

I know we'll never get the figures, but I'd love to see the number of active PS3's and active 360's.
To this argument I say, you never know how much the 360 might have sold if it was completely reliable. The rrod was massively negative on how the 360 was perceived. With it's software line up etc it could have completely steamrolled the ps3 if it was completely reliable.

No one knows what could have been. We only know what we know. We also know that, to what I am aware of, is that the 360 has the highest software attach rate per console sold so I would say that contradicts the piracy and multiple owner argument. That or the competitions software sales are pathetic

A7
08-21-2010, 19:07
Even tough Galvanise said it a lot better than me,and since i didn't see you addressing his post.Does that mean you agree with him?

With Galvanise_'s post, I read what he said and it made sense so I did not dispute. I;ve heard this theory before but am unsure how factual it is (based on demographics).

I do not now if I should agree or not because I do not know what is actually factual but in respect to Galv_ I read what he said and because I am just the guy asking questions here and not making statements I appreciated his feedback, it was with you that I found err so I replied to you.

mynd
08-21-2010, 23:52
Ah, love it 2 pages of the retreaded garbage that is used as "but it isnt really sold".

$650 million.

I think that what MS really give a dam about.
I'm sure they are crying in their beers about how many Xbox360 were sold to people who had alreayd owned one. Not.

Galvanise_
08-22-2010, 00:01
Ah, love it 2 pages of the retreaded garbage that is used as "but it isnt really sold".

$650 million.

I think that what MS really give a dam about.
I'm sure they are crying in their beers about how many Xbox360 were sold to people who had alreayd owned one. Not.

Of course they don't, but unless you have shares in Microsoft, you shouldn't. I just think its interesting to note that the current installed bases of both consoles are inflated by people owning more than one. The PS2 for example wouldn't be anywhere near its current total if people didn't own more than one. People always cite the 'over 120 million' sales, but realistically, how many different people have owned one?

mynd
08-22-2010, 00:22
Of course they don't, but unless you have shares in Microsoft, you shouldn't. I just think its interesting to note that the current installed bases of both consoles are inflated by people owning more than one. The PS2 for example wouldn't be anywhere near its current total if people didn't own more than one. People always cite the 'over 120 million' sales, but realistically, how many different people have owned one?

Its really about how they (both MS and Sony), can leverage the install bases (whatever they are), to make a profit for both them ,and their 3rd party developers.
If developers cant make money, there is little point in carrying on.
And ultimatly he who make smoney can affored to cut the price.

Dont forget that 650 million includedes, 2 disaterous products (zune the phone thingy), and a revamp of the 360.

MS is confident, becuae they are confident in being able to counter any Sony does.

Galvanise_
08-22-2010, 00:37
MS is confident, becuae they are confident in being able to counter any Sony does.

Aye. Even if they weren't I don't think Greenberg would tell us. :snicker

33x
08-22-2010, 00:39
I always looked at it like this: 360 vs. PS3. Wii is alone. PC is alone. Wii is and will always butt rape both 360 and PS3.

pretty much this

maltrophstitan
08-22-2010, 00:41
my girlfriend has a wii and she and her family wouldn't look twice at a ps3 or 360

mynd
08-22-2010, 01:32
Aye. Even if they weren't I don't think Greenberg would tell us. :snicker

To true.

Imagine the headlines:

Greenberg: We suck.

Roadside
08-22-2010, 01:36
At least it would be honest.

UkHardcore
08-22-2010, 01:39
pretty much this

It wouldnt be that though if the PS3 or 360 was beating the Wii ;)

mynd
08-22-2010, 01:42
At least it would be honest.

Ah, if we were brutally honest this generaiton the headlines would read something like this:

Greenberg: Yes we ****ed our hardware up, but we've fixed it now.

Sony: Yes we ****ed our bottom line up , but we've fixed it now.

AaronSOLDIER
08-22-2010, 01:42
It wouldnt be that though if the PS3 or 360 was beating the Wii ;)

PS360 is though woo!

Galvanise_
08-22-2010, 01:49
Ah, if we were brutally honest this generaiton the headlines would read something like this:

Greenberg: Yes we ****ed our hardware up, but we've fixed it now.

Sony: Yes we ****ed our bottom line up , but we've fixed it now.

Nintendo: Lol. We've pulled off the biggest turnaround the gaming world has ever seen.

Roadside
08-22-2010, 01:58
And now they have both MS and Sony scambling to get a piece of the pie. Meanwhile, Nintendo is actually announcing relevant games again.

lordmadjack
08-22-2010, 03:11
Nintendo: Lol. We've pulled off the biggest turnaround the gaming world has ever seen.

I would argue MS was far more impressive, don't forget while last gen Sony was nearing the 100, million mark sold both the Box and Cube were hanging between 20-30 million, but Nintendo had the DS and like the Wii it seemed to print money...

Microsoft on the other hand didn't have a back-up game device, was losing money on every sale and was DEEP in the Red, virtually no support compared to the PS2, then next gen MS re designs the controller makes third party and firmware and online a priority and secures a years lead and great exclusives and BAM, find themselves four years in with the lead in HD consoles and ready to launch a potential mony maker :D

Boogie Woogie
08-22-2010, 03:59
Ooh, not entirely sure about that Mr.Greenberg. Reach out next month and Fable 3 looming on the horizon says MS is going into the December period strong but they're running straight into Gran Turismo...

BLaZiN PRopHeT
08-22-2010, 04:18
GT5 will most like post systems for the ps3 not the other 3 games you named.

Galvanise_
08-22-2010, 04:52
Kinect is the obvious hardware pusher for Microsoft. If you are buying Fable III, Halo: Reach or Gears of War 3, the likelihood is that you already own a 360 and have played other games in those series. Kinect will bring in a lot of new demographics.

mistercrow
08-22-2010, 05:29
Kinect is the obvious hardware pusher for Microsoft. If you are buying Fable III, Halo: Reach or Gears of War 3, the likelihood is that you already own a 360 and have played other games in those series.

If that was true then the same would have to apply to PS3 with games like KZ3, Infamous 2, Uncharted 3, etc. since the PS3 install base is almost the same as the 360 now. I Personally believe both systems will have hardware spikes due to certain exclusives although Sony's spikes will be longer lived due to an onslaught of AAA exclusives coming out on the PS3. And thats when MS will be hoping and praying that Kinnect is a success. Thats why I've always said that MS needs Kinnect to succeed more than Sony needs Move to succeed.

Ghost
08-22-2010, 07:52
Pffft, I read numerous articles on the net that stated that the failure rate for the 360 (pre 360slim) was about 33%, and I have read people buying anywhere between 2-8 new 360s due to it breaking down. A faulty system + competitive price = more sales. Sony has almost caught up and hasn't had to rely on their customers buying replacement systems, and they started a year later.

Sony is going to have an amazing 2011 and I dare say 2012 aswell. As Galvanise_ said, PS3 is getting the multiplats, former 360 exclusives + a devistating array of AAA+++ exclusives.

Avrum
08-22-2010, 08:07
I would argue MS was far more impressive, don't forget while last gen Sony was nearing the 100, million mark sold both the Box and Cube were hanging between 20-30 million, but Nintendo had the DS and like the Wii it seemed to print money...

Microsoft on the other hand didn't have a back-up game device, was losing money on every sale and was DEEP in the Red, virtually no support compared to the PS2, then next gen MS re designs the controller makes third party and firmware and online a priority and secures a years lead and great exclusives and BAM, find themselves four years in with the lead in HD consoles and ready to launch a potential mony maker :D

MS turning around their financial woes and securing a presence with third parties I'm not sure mounts well against Nintendo turning around the perpetual decline of their home consoles userbase and marketshare ever since the NES days. This past Summer Nintendo surpassed the NES with the Wii making it their most successful home platform to date.



Nintendo is a competitor as far as I'm concerned but a lot of forum members (especially this forum) have always found it easy to declare the Wii outside this HD console race. Unless they have changed their stance just for this article of course :p

360/PS3's fight is for the living room with all their services and features they include where as the Wii, not so much outside of gaming.

An attorney would be required to sift through the reasons why the Wii counts or doesn't count with some people. It's a whole lot of "goal post moving" and rationale snaking to suggest the Wii doesn't count, although people have no problem comparing sales data on the few times the platform is outsold by the competition. I still remember when prior to the PS3 outselling the Wii for the first time in Japan, many Media Create/Famitsu topic posters dismissed the Wii's sales preferring to compare PS3 to the 360. (even though comparing PS3 to 360 sales in Japan is like kicking a dog while its down, wow big victory there) The first time the PS3 outsold the Wii, all bets were off, Nintendo were going down and the Wii fad was "wearing off." Then the very next week the Wii outsold the PS3 by an amount much larger than the PS3 outsold it that previous week, making up ground and then some. And by that time, of course, Wii sales didn't matter anymore. ;)

Dasimpse
08-22-2010, 08:11
honestly from working in games for 6 years, i used to have to physically MAKE people buy infamous, killzone and uncharted 2 in the uk.

I think the sales would have been allot higher if sony could work out how to market those games.

I mean i would try every single one of my magical sales charms, and not to blow my own trumpet, i am good, but for some reason, THAT REALLY ANNOYS ME. 90 percent of the idiotic general public won't give uncharted 2, infamous or killzone a chance.

It infuriates me. I would honestly say that kinet is going to havea n insane christmas in the uk. if the preorders are to go by.

Im talking that game and gamestation in the uk have an average of about 50 pre orders per store at 10 pounds deposit each. move is not anywhere near that, but i do believe that move i gonna be much more of a walk in and buy it like an extra pad, so why would people pre order it, maybe?.

some stores have like over 100 pre orders, even indipendants like grainger games in the north have 100 pre orders for a few stores on kinect. those are paid pre orders aswell, not just put your name down.

If every one of those turns into sales! jeeeez

mistercrow
08-22-2010, 08:12
I seriously doubt that 360 will be able to maintain second place. I believe that PS3 will pass up 360 in the very near future. I believe that during xmas PS3 is going to really close the gap. But nobody will catch Nintendo who have already won this generation hands down.

Dasimpse
08-22-2010, 08:16
you think this christmas the ps3 is going to outsell the 360 by a large margin? i think this christmas is going to be insanely interesting. I will take the bet that it goes the other way. There has been a trend of more and more people picking up ps3's tho, now it is a more affordable price, so you could be right.

Ms needs good kinect bundles to stand a chance

mistercrow
08-22-2010, 08:21
you think this christmas the ps3 is going to outsell the 360 by a large margin? i think this christmas is going to be insanely interesting. I will take the bet that it goes the other way. There has been a trend of more and more people picking up ps3's tho, now it is a more affordable price, so you could be right.

Ms needs good kinect bundles to stand a chance Yeah, at the very least it will be close. But whether its by a few or by alot I think that PS3 will outsell the 360 this xmas. The only exception might be the US market.

labwarrior
08-22-2010, 10:15
I seriously doubt that 360 will be able to maintain second place. I believe that PS3 will pass up 360 in the very near future. I believe that during xmas PS3 is going to really close the gap. But nobody will catch Nintendo who have already won this generation hands down.

Maybe, but i dont see it happening TBH, since the gap is getting wider now that the slim is out, and will get even more when Kinect and bundles with it are on the market, plus Halo REach and Fable 3 and next year Gears 3 are some of the most huge 360 games

Kinect also seems to have appeal to the casuals like MS wanted, so will immensly help sales later this year

Of course nothing is certain, one thing is for sure, all the sales boost PS3 got was due to releasing the Slim in a low price and Wii sales due to the novelty of Mote and price, so 360 gets both of these this year and i am sure will boost sales immensly

arfi-gorgona-O
08-22-2010, 11:04
Well now that the PS3 is able to play back ups,i wont be surprised if i see the gap to close rapidly,when this will be known and available.I can also see quite a lot to buy a second PS3 just for that,and many people that were waiting to buy a PS3 for that reason only.

360 had that boost for ages and still the gap wasn't large (even with RrOd hacked systems that are way to many mind you,and never return to Ms,so they count as sales.)

This without even count the great line up that it has,that will boost the sales too.

Just wait and see :)

mistercrow
08-22-2010, 11:09
Well now that the PS3 is able to play back ups,

You mean now that the PS3 has been hacked.

arfi-gorgona-O
08-22-2010, 11:11
Call it what you want,i already said what it is :lol: The thing is,that it can play back ups ;)

mistercrow
08-22-2010, 11:16
Call it what you want,

I'm calling it what it is. When it was the 360 you called it piracy and hacked but now that its the PS3 you sugarcoat it by saying "it is now able to play backups" like its a good thing. :lol:

UkHardcore
08-22-2010, 11:26
I'm calling it what it is. When it was the 360 you called it piracy and hacked but now that its the PS3 you sugarcoat it by saying "it is now able to play backups" like its a good thing. :lol:
:lol:

arfi-gorgona-O
08-22-2010, 11:29
I explained what it is in another topic already.Should i go the same route again?You want to call it a hack well call it i wont stop you.But for me its not a hack since its an official way of doing it,they just stole the darn thing.I wont call it a hack just cause you like me too :lol: Sure they will use it for pirating game duh!!! what else they will use it for.

When i said that many people were waiting to buy it for that reason,what do you think the reason is? to play their legitimate back up games? :roll:

A7
08-22-2010, 11:31
Sony will see an influx of consoles purchased but remember one very vital matter which hasn't affected MS for instance and that is Sony have a massive 1st party.

All those massive budgets and years spent making those beautiful games that give the cinematic gameplay aspects etc... Those games that costs Sony millions upon millions will now be pirated, games will be rented, copied and we'll know if this comes to fruition if the console:games ratio begins to decline in favor of more consoles purchased but I think for Sony they're going to need to combat this asap.

Edit: There's also the guys who hacked the 360s behind the PS3 Blu-ray drive too now... Multiple angles this PS3 is going to be manipulated, exploited and hacked, whichever term you rather use, backups on PS3 is here and now.

I've noticed craigslist and ebay are seeing an influx with second hand PS3's...

arfi-gorgona-O
08-22-2010, 11:34
Don't worry A7MAd the 1st party titles wont see much decline,i know many people with a hacked 360 that are still buying games.But many people do that cause they are greedy they just want everything.They buy the good ones and they pirating the other ones.

But Sony will try and combat it for sure,thats a given.

EDIT:Yes A7mad it will at some point but not yet.For now all it does it to be able to play backups,either are pirated or not rad :lol:

mistercrow
08-22-2010, 11:36
I explained what it is in another topic already.Should i go the same route again?You want to call it a hack well call it i wont stop you.But for me its not a hack since its an official way of doing it,they just stole the darn thing.I wont call it a hack just cause you like me too :lol: Sure they will use it for pirating game duh!!! what else they will use it for.

When i said that many people were waiting to buy it for that reason,what do you think the reason is? to play their legitimate back up games? :roll:

It will be ok, arfi. Keep your chin up. :lol:

A7
08-22-2010, 11:51
Don't worry A7MAd the 1st party titles wont see much decline,i know many people with a hacked 360 that are still buying games.But many people do that cause they are greedy they just want everything.They buy the good ones and they pirating the other ones.

I'm not worried, I don't care what happens to these corps. I'm not in love with them I covered my bases.
That's the thing, the 360 doesn't have as many exclusives as Sony & people buy Halo, Gears and Fable generally because they play them online almost religiously, but look at Sony, probably 20 exclusives for 2011, you really beleive a pirate will buy 15 of those titles and pirate only 5? :lol: No way. I know guys in Australian forums buying second hand PS3's for the modchip, I'm telling you, Sony is in big trouble.


But Sony will try and combat it for sure,thats a given.

They need to kill this with fire. Sony's own insiders have helped hack the PSP and now they're exploiting the PS3. If they don;t find the culprit(s), big trouble.

arfi-gorgona-O
08-22-2010, 11:56
Well and i know guys here that still buy the good titles,and pirate the multi ones.There are a lot of kind of people,you cant put them all in one category,even if they are pirates.But the best way to see it,is sales when the games will be available,if Sony couldn't find a way to stop it that is.

A7
08-22-2010, 12:10
With the 360, it's a positive that even with all the RROD, ban hammers and piracy even... MS continues to keep a high games per console ratio; I guess for Greenberg he needs to speak with this confidence as it'd make little sense not to.

As long as I enjoy my games Greeny, as long as I enjoy my games ;)

Edit:

I'll keep eye out on the ratios of games per console. If they decline then I guess it'll be all but too obvious.

labwarrior
08-22-2010, 12:27
PS3 got hacked ???

A7
08-22-2010, 12:35
PS3 got hacked ???

Well yes and no, the literalists will tell you it's not a hack.

One thing nobody can deny is it plays backups of your original games (or for pirates those they rent) on either the internal PS3 HDD or on an external USB HDD.

Galvanise_
08-22-2010, 12:52
If that was true then the same would have to apply to PS3 with games like KZ3, Infamous 2, Uncharted 3, etc. since the PS3 install base is almost the same as the 360 now. I Personally believe both systems will have hardware spikes due to certain exclusives although Sony's spikes will be longer lived due to an onslaught of AAA exclusives coming out on the PS3. And thats when MS will be hoping and praying that Kinnect is a success. Thats why I've always said that MS needs Kinnect to succeed more than Sony needs Move to succeed.

I think it does apply to Sony too. There will be hardware spikes indeed, but I think the motion control solutions will be key drivers. There'll be hardware revisions from both Microsoft and Sony, but I think the motion control solutions will produce a longer sustained influx of new people to both systems. In short, they are both good for the uptake of their respective systems.

Boogie Woogie
08-22-2010, 13:02
Maybe, but i dont see it happening TBH, since the gap is getting wider now that the slim is out, and will get even more when Kinect and bundles with it are on the market, plus Halo REach and Fable 3 and next year Gears 3 are some of the most huge 360 games

Kinect also seems to have appeal to the casuals like MS wanted, so will immensly help sales later this year

Of course nothing is certain, one thing is for sure, all the sales boost PS3 got was due to releasing the Slim in a low price and Wii sales due to the novelty of Mote and price, so 360 gets both of these this year and i am sure will boost sales immensly
So Playstation Move, Gran Turismo 5, Killzone 3 and LittleBigPlanet 2 will have no impact on PS3 sales in the near future ?
The Slim model spiked sales for the PS3 and who's to argue the above mentioned titles won't do the same, especially the juggernaut that is Gran Turismo 5.

A7
08-22-2010, 13:08
I wouldn't doubt solid spikes and great software sales for the PS3.

One thing to note though is for some reason or another (I'm not even going to try to figure out why) a trend has been that for PS3 software sales to reach 2-5 million it usually (not in every case and likely not with GT5) it takes months and even a year before the sales are considered exceptional.

So once people comprehend that with Sony is more about them taking their own pace and with some little time involved those sales will matter and leave their dent.

Edit:

To remain on topic:

Microsoft on the other hand achieve great sales figures on software and consoles rather quickly.

Halo is around the corner and there's almost assured there will be 3-5 million in the first 1-2 months sold. Same with Gears and likely Fable (however a little longer). Whether it is advertising or just the kinds of gamers and games that MS' audience appeal to it works really well for them and Kinect like Galv_ said will be part of a great amount of units and consoles sold.

J3ff3
08-22-2010, 17:27
I explained what it is in another topic already.Should i go the same route again?You want to call it a hack well call it i wont stop you.But for me its not a hack since its an official way of doing it,they just stole the darn thing.I wont call it a hack just cause you like me too :lol: Sure they will use it for pirating game duh!!! what else they will use it for.

When i said that many people were waiting to buy it for that reason,what do you think the reason is? to play their legitimate back up games? :roll:

you can't be serious?

it isn't using the official hardware intended, therefore it is still a hack

eitherway, once the cat and mouse games begin between sony and the pirate re updates, then it will be a hack by your logic.

mistercrow
08-22-2010, 17:48
I think it does apply to Sony too. There will be hardware spikes indeed, but I think the motion control solutions will be key drivers. There'll be hardware revisions from both Microsoft and Sony, but I think the motion control solutions will produce a longer sustained influx of new people to both systems. In short, they are both good for the uptake of their respective systems.

I agree.

labwarrior
08-22-2010, 18:15
So Playstation Move, Gran Turismo 5, Killzone 3 and LittleBigPlanet 2 will have no impact on PS3 sales in the near future ?
The Slim model spiked sales for the PS3 and who's to argue the above mentioned titles won't do the same, especially the juggernaut that is Gran Turismo 5.

Of course will have an impact, but not nearly as huge as Halo or Kinect imo

Two4DaMoney
08-22-2010, 18:56
I wouldn't doubt solid spikes and great software sales for the PS3.

One thing to note though is for some reason or another (I'm not even going to try to figure out why) a trend has been that for PS3 software sales to reach 2-5 million it usually (not in every case and likely not with GT5) it takes months and even a year before the sales are considered exceptional.

So once people comprehend that with Sony is more about them taking their own pace and with some little time involved those sales will matter and leave their dent.

Edit:

To remain on topic:

Microsoft on the other hand achieve great sales figures on software and consoles rather quickly.

Halo is around the corner and there's almost assured there will be 3-5 million in the first 1-2 months sold. Same with Gears and likely Fable (however a little longer). Whether it is advertising or just the kinds of gamers and games that MS' audience appeal to it works really well for them and Kinect like Galv_ said will be part of a great amount of units and consoles sold.I'm not so sure about that A7. You say it takes months to be exceptional for Sony titles but you go on to use months for MS and say that it reaches those figures exceptionally fast and you use their biggest titles. You lost me there a bit and the reason why is below.

I wouldn't exactly go by that trend anymore. As of late, things have changed for Sony bigger titles(I'll get to that later). Halo:Reach will reach those figures as you stated in a couple months. Gears 1 and 2 reached 5m in a couple years. Fable 2 reached around 4m in a couple years.

Since Uncharted 2 dropped, sales have been reaching those numbers at a faster pace than before for Sony. Uncharted 2 was at 3.5m in a couple months. Heavy Rain is closing in on 2m in a couple months. God Of War 3 is closing in on 3 million in a couple months. Little Big Planet 2 will likely take off again with sales this Nov. And GT5 will without a doubt reach millions in couple months.

It also seems that you implied that hardware sales for the 360 takes off faster than the ps3. That's not true either. Just look at the YOY increase for both systems.


Of course will have an impact, but not nearly as huge as Halo or Kinect imoI think you are underestimating the strength a GT debut has on hardware and software sales. Just look at the past numbers for the GT series. The fans know what's a "demo" and full blown game. I'm willing to bet you that GT5's impact on hardware will be bigger than Halo:Reach's impact. I'm talking WW figures for both.

A7
08-22-2010, 19:11
I'm not so sure about that A7. You say it takes months to be exceptional for Sony titles but you go on to use months for MS and say that it reaches those figures exceptionally fast and you use their biggest titles. You lost me there a bit and the reason why is below.

Sorry about that, I usually post here whilst I'm working so I can become lazy and not clarify what I mean exactly.

When I say months in regards to trends I've noticed for some PS3 titles, I do not mean 1 or 2, I should have specified but I mean more like 5-6 months onward.

Also in regards to MS I literally meant 2-3 months.

Apologies, I'm a little lazy at times...

As for mentioning the 360's biggest games, like people say, they don't have too many exclusives (but these are the ones).


I wouldn't exactly go by that trend anymore. As of late, things have changed for Sony bigger titles(I'll get to that later). Halo:Reach will reach those figures as you stated in a couple months. Gears 1 and 2 reached 5m in a couple years. Fable 2 reached around 4m in a couple years.

I was pretty sure Gears 2 sold 2 million in 1 weekend (upon release), did it really take more years to sell the remaining 3-4 million? Gears 2 was only released in November 2008 (hasn't even been 2 years) yet and it surpassed 5 million a while back if not mistaken, I think it even surpassed 6 million a while back? (I may not be totally correct).


Since Uncharted 2 dropped, sales have been reaching those numbers at a faster pace than before for Sony. Uncharted 2 was at 3.5m in a couple months. Heavy Rain is closing in on 2m in a couple months. God Of War 3 is closing in on 3 million in a couple months. Little Big Planet 2 will likely take off again with sales this Nov. And GT5 will without a doubt reach millions in couple months.

But that really isn't any different than what I meant... 5-6 months and onward...


It also seems that you implied that hardware sales for the 360 takes off faster than the ps3. That's not true either. Just look at the YOY increase for both systems.

We're not looking at YOY though we are looking at now (not compared to this time last year etc...)... I also discussed games to console ratio's, as the 360's consoles increase (be it RROD, Banwave, Piracy) the games are still selling (kind of the point of my post).

The ratio is like 8:1, even as more consoles sell.

Scape
08-22-2010, 19:30
PS3 games are usually slow burners for sure. 360 gamers seem to buy the games about as soon as they release. Not sure if PS3 gamers wait or its just more of a word of mouth thing. But, for the userbase of the PS3, most of its biggest games should probably have sold more then they did.

GT may be a whole nother beast, who knows. It's always been a huge game that gets huge numbers and this time around they got the game overflowing with features(nascar, rally, go-karts, a billion cars, weather, damage, etc) and its been hyped for so long since its taking a long time to release. but with PS3 owners it would not surprise me if it took a year to reach 5 mil lol.

davin_g
08-22-2010, 20:42
Are we talking about consoles here or software? Undoubtedly 360 sells more software from their main hitters (primarily fps) but across all genres I would guess it is very much closer to make up the difference. As for consoles. Kinect will be marketed HUGE whether it works or not. It will sell but how many consoles..thats the question? Who wants to play Halo that doesn't have a 360 already??? Who wants to play GT5 that doesn't have a PS3? Worldwide sales of PS3 will surpass the 360...it isn't a question...but that doesn't mean Microsoft hasn't succeeded...they have had an incredible generation despite their flaws.

mynd
08-22-2010, 23:40
I seriously doubt that 360 will be able to maintain second place. I believe that PS3 will pass up 360 in the very near future. I believe that during xmas PS3 is going to really close the gap. But nobody will catch Nintendo who have already won this generation hands down.

The gap closer is Japan, the 360 and PS3 outside of this region are selling pretty much even.
It is no coincidence that the gap in in Japan between the 2 units is the gap Sony have managed to close in on the 360 by.

Ultimatley, unless MS gain traction in Japan with Kinect, they will have to compete twice as hard to stay above Sony.

I mean 4 million sales gap in Japan is something you cant really ignore.

However, if Kinect works in Japan, and they gain some sort of even sales battle over their, then the PS3 will never catch up.

Strung Out
08-23-2010, 05:53
I'm buying move, but I still think kinect is going to smoke it in sales.

I can't see any casuals ever buying ps3's for move if they have a wii. All they will say is "oh i already got those wand thingy's on this"

I can see them buying a kinect and saying "oh I don't need battery's, no clutter in the living room and it looks even easier to use"

Who's going to walk into a store looking to buy motion control for their "family" and walk out with up to 8 box's worth of Move/wii remote's vs. a single camera.

I still think sale's wise MS has this in the bag. It's just bad for us.

Boogie Woogie
08-23-2010, 06:48
I have to say that i'm shocked at how some people deeply underestimate Gran Turismo. Its quite disturbing. Hello, Gran Turismo is Sony's Halo !! Just look at worldwide sales of the game so far. 55 Million units for the series so far, GT3 being the most successful single title in the series. I don't want to mention Halo sales figures so far becoz it doesn't match that. Not wanting to turn this thread into a Halo VS GT affair, just stating my point. Gran Turismo is not to be underestimated (i'm looking at you Labwarrior).
I'm annoyed it took so long for GT5 to be completed but i understand why Sony gave PD all the time they needed. Like i said this is Sony's Halo.
This Xmas will be very interesting for two reason. Halo VS GT5 in sales and Kinect VS Move. Two established blockbuster titles and two new motion control technologies. This will come down to good marketing. Which camp has the right stuff. Sony or MS.

Scape
08-23-2010, 06:57
GT5 is definitely taking forever. But it's understandable when you see the visual boost it has gotten, along with how many vehicles it has, and how much they have added, like weather, damage, nascar racing, rally racing, go-kart racing, etc. It's going to be the largest most feature packed racing game ever. Sucks waiting this long but it may end up being more then worth the wait.

mynd
08-23-2010, 07:45
I have to say that i'm shocked at how some people deeply underestimate Gran Turismo. Its quite disturbing. Hello, Gran Turismo is Sony's Halo !! Just look at worldwide sales of the game so far. 55 Million units for the series so far, GT3 being the most successful single title in the series. I don't want to mention Halo sales figures so far becoz it doesn't match that. Not wanting to turn this thread into a Halo VS GT affair, just stating my point. Gran Turismo is not to be underestimated (i'm looking at you Labwarrior).
I'm annoyed it took so long for GT5 to be completed but i understand why Sony gave PD all the time they needed. Like i said this is Sony's Halo.
This Xmas will be very interesting for two reason. Halo VS GT5 in sales and Kinect VS Move. Two established blockbuster titles and two new motion control technologies. This will come down to good marketing. Which camp has the right stuff. Sony or MS.


To move consoles? The one with the lowest price.

arfi-gorgona-O
08-23-2010, 07:58
The gap closer is Japan, the 360 and PS3 outside of this region are selling pretty much even.
It is no coincidence that the gap in in Japan between the 2 units is the gap Sony have managed to close in on the 360 by.

Ultimatley, unless MS gain traction in Japan with Kinect, they will have to compete twice as hard to stay above Sony.

I mean 4 million sales gap in Japan is something you cant really ignore.

However, if Kinect works in Japan, and they gain some sort of even sales battle over their, then the PS3 will never catch up.


Aren't you forgetting a big advantage that the PS3 seem to have after the latest news? ;) Im willing to bet that if the 360 didn't had that advantage (sales wise at least) from the start,it would have been behind the PS3 even with the one year head start.

mistercrow
08-23-2010, 08:06
GT5 is definitely taking forever. But it's understandable when you see the visual boost it has gotten, along with how many vehicles it has, and how much they have added, like weather, damage, nascar racing, rally racing, go-kart racing, etc. It's going to be the largest most feature packed racing game ever. Sucks waiting this long but it may end up being more then worth the wait.

I agree. I'm really looking forward to GT5. (also looking forward to Halo Reach ).

labwarrior
08-23-2010, 08:27
I have to say that i'm shocked at how some people deeply underestimate Gran Turismo. Its quite disturbing. Hello, Gran Turismo is Sony's Halo !! Just look at worldwide sales of the game so far. 55 Million units for the series so far, GT3 being the most successful single title in the series. I don't want to mention Halo sales figures so far becoz it doesn't match that. Not wanting to turn this thread into a Halo VS GT affair, just stating my point. Gran Turismo is not to be underestimated (i'm looking at you Labwarrior).
I'm annoyed it took so long for GT5 to be completed but i understand why Sony gave PD all the time they needed. Like i said this is Sony's Halo.
This Xmas will be very interesting for two reason. Halo VS GT5 in sales and Kinect VS Move. Two established blockbuster titles and two new motion control technologies. This will come down to good marketing. Which camp has the right stuff. Sony or MS.

I really dont play racing games much, maybe that is why GT is so indifferent to me, i like more the Dirt like racers too, would only rent games like GT or Forza style and hae F1 games with a passion too

As for beeing PS3 Halo, for now i dont agree, i see Halo getting huge in pre-orders, and GT5 is nowhere near

Also Prologue did not sell anywhere even miles close to Halo 3, so yes, GT was huge back then when PS2 had 140.000.000 users with no competition at all, i simply dont see it beeing something importatnt today, it is also just a racing game for me

labwarrior
08-23-2010, 08:29
Aren't you forgetting a big advantage that the PS3 seem to have after the latest news? ;) Im willing to bet that if the 360 didn't had that advantage (sales wise at least) from the start,it would have been behind the PS3 even with the one year head start.

Can you play disk backups now on PS3 ? Also the disks would be expensive and downloads huge, so will definatly not be the same as 360

mynd
08-23-2010, 08:48
Aren't you forgetting a big advantage that the PS3 seem to have after the latest news? ;) Im willing to bet that if the 360 didn't had that advantage (sales wise at least) from the start,it would have been behind the PS3 even with the one year head start.

Only helps a companay if they actually make money on their consoles wouldnt it?
Not to mention something that will be destroyed in the next firmware update.

labwarrior
08-23-2010, 08:52
Indeed, software sales on PS3 will take a huge hit and developers will no longer have the secure feeling they had before

It is also extremely bad for developers, that see their hard work pirated

On the other hand, i hope few would ever bother with such things, i doubt many would touch their 360 too

Seems the only secure place to release games now is XBLA and maybe PSN (dont know if that will break after the new hack, XBLA still stands unbreakable though somehow)

arfi-gorgona-O
08-23-2010, 09:00
Only helps a companay if they actually make money on their consoles wouldnt it?
Not to mention something that will be destroyed in the next firmware update.

If it was that easy to destroy it,why people here did so much fuzz about it,talking about the ongoing battle from now on etc etc.I don't understand what you mean,when you re saying "make money with their consoles".I think they are making money as of now already,and it can only be better from now on,on the hardware front not worse.


Labwarrior,no the multiplatforms aren't ;)

I for one would prefer if Sony could stop it,since the PS3 already does great with no piracy.But that remains to be
seen.

And something to be noted:

The games wont be affected by much even from pirating,cause people that wanted to do that,didn't bought a PS3 before cause of that reason,if they buy it now,they will contribute to the hardware but the software wont take a loss.The ratio might take a loss but the actual sales wont.

mynd
08-23-2010, 09:18
If it was that easy to destroy it,why people here did so much fuzz about it,talking about the ongoing battle from now on etc etc.I don't understand what you mean,when you re saying "make money with their consoles".I think they are making money as of now already,and it can only be better from now on,on the hardware front not worse.


Labwarrior,no the multiplatforms aren't ;)

I for one would prefer if Sony could stop it,since the PS3 already does great with no piracy.But that remains to be
seen.

And something to be noted:

The games wont be affected by much even from pirating,cause people that wanted to do that,didn't bought a PS3 before cause of that reason,if they buy it now,they will contribute to the hardware but the software wont take a loss.The ratio might take a loss but the actual sales wont.

1/ They can specifically target the bakcup software from running vie a firmeware update.

2/ Expect a new jig stick to be distrubuted, and making this one obsolete with a new firmware update.


This JIG stick is specfically designed to intereact with the BIOS, it is not a law unto itself. A simple firmware flash will totally **** this up.

arfi-gorgona-O
08-23-2010, 09:25
Well if this is true,then for me its good news.So only the ones that wont update will be able to use it.I wonder if the modding shops will go all out and buy the current PS3's they did that with the 360 before,to be able to sell them with the hack.

Dasimpse
08-23-2010, 09:28
its all down to taste. halo reach is going to be a better game FOR ME as i will play it more, simple as. Its sad to say that in a world where shooters are so big now, and it would be nice to be different. I'm just trying to say that to me, and im sure to allot, halo reach is a more appealing package, then you have all the people that will much prefer to have GT5.

To me you NEED to have a v good wheel to play GT5, or its pointless, all that sim effort to play it with a pad, no way. I am going to wait on reviews, then if it is the second coming of car goddesses i will pick up a good wheel and the game when i can afford.

GT5 is defo HUUUUGE tho and it shouldnt be underestimated. I am going to put money down tho and bet it will be the worsed performing Gran tourismo sony has ever put out. (sales wise) On a home console, and i mean a proper sequel, not a prologue etc.

I will put money that reach is the best selling halo ever put out aswell.

arfi-gorgona-O
08-23-2010, 09:31
I think you will lose a lot of money D if you make this bet. Judging by the demo alone this will sale like hot cakes in the long or short run lol

Dasimpse
08-23-2010, 09:34
nah im willing to take it, i hope i do lose. I want games to sell allot, especially games that cost 60 million dollars. There needs to be a constant supply of games like GT5, GT6. This is a bet i don;t want to win, i just want to make the baords more fun :D

also the gt series has sold like 55 million copies with ever gran tourismo sold, that includes the psp one and the prologues, concepts etc.

If i remember halo seies, JUST THE TRILOGY, is on like 30 million. thats only 3 games. I cant remember where i read it.
Oh infact it says on wiki its on 34 million

Minnzy
08-23-2010, 09:46
also the gt series has sold like 55 million copies with ever gran tourismo sold, that includes the psp one and the prologues, concepts etc.

If i remember halo seies, JUST THE TRILOGY, is on like 30 million. thats only 3 games. I cant remember where i read it.
Oh infact it says on wiki its on 34 million

Umm not a fan of racing really but you seem amazed at 34m for Halos first 3 but GT's first 3 is at 35.11 million using the same source as you :S

Understandable if you you're more a fan of shooters though

mynd
08-23-2010, 10:03
Well if this is true,then for me its good news.So only the ones that wont update will be able to use it.I wonder if the modding shops will go all out and buy the current PS3's they did that with the 360 before,to be able to sell them with the hack.

You have to remember this isnt a mod or a hack, its actually leveraging sonys own code, to unlock a feature they created.

Dasimpse
08-23-2010, 10:06
what is this hack? does it work on slim consoles?

arfi-gorgona-O
08-23-2010, 10:12
You have to remember this isnt a mod or a hack, its actually leveraging sonys own code, to unlock a feature they created.


Well i'm the one that were saying that so many times to others :lol: So i guess i know.Still it does the job for the games.To the ones that wont update of course.Depends how fast news will spread,people or the shops might rush and buy the current PS3's just for that alone.I'm not sure if the ones that bring this to the market will be able to maintain it,meaning that they will make it usable with future PS3 games.Or it might be a short lived solution,even with no fir update.

D yes it does.

mynd
08-23-2010, 10:13
what is this hack? does it work on slim consoles?

Its a usb dongle that puts any PS3 into service mode, it is used by tehcnicians when fixing and testing PS3's.
Its not even a peice of non-sony code. As I say Sony will just chenge the method they use to do this.

Dasimpse
08-23-2010, 11:20
crazyness

A7
08-23-2010, 12:44
I honestly beleive the following:

GT5 = Awesome sales figures for the PS3 but I'm not so sure it'll sell 5 million first month.

Halo Reach = Awesome sales figures for the 360, and I believe in the first month (30 days after it is on store shelves) it will sell 4-5 million.

I believe GT5 has the ability to outsell Halo Reach however the PS3 install base isn't as large as the PS2's install base was when GT3 was selling 15 million copies.

Either way I don't think we can argue that both are solid titles; one this year just seems a more popular genre of game.

Now if you excuse me whilst I go play some Halo Reach :p

Wasib
08-24-2010, 01:57
I think it is very wrong to look at only this Winters line-up. 2011 Q4 will be the real battleground. Sony will be ready to drop their prices for the PS3 to the mass market level i.e. 249 EURO, $249, $25,000 YEN and 200 GBP. That is going to give the PS3 a 'major' lift. Of course Microsoft will respond but they have been hitting these mass-market prices for a while now.

Also I think people are underestimating a few recent announcements Sony made at Gamescom. They announced a 320 GB PS3 Move pack which in the UK only costs 35 GBP more than the 360 4GB Natal bundle...that is competitive pricing from Sony. When you factor in that Sony will be promoting 3D gaming very hard this coming Winter, you know, it will be tight. Sure Natal will sell, but do not rule out the Move with 3D effect. GT5 will be a 3D game remember. PS3 will also play 3D Movies - and Avatar will release to coincide with the Firmware update. Sony are building in a lot of reasons to own a PS3 - creating extra value all the time.

When Sony cut the price of their console in Q4 2011 3D could have taken off by then with Sony Worldwide Studios completely behind it. I also feel we will see far better game experiences with Move. Sure Natal will have the marketing but just remember its high cost and so far lack of third-party support. Also the fact it seems 3D adds a lot more to games than do motion-controls.

Honestly based on the above points I think Sony is in a decent position at the moment. And I have not even begun to mention the amount of exclusive first-party games they will have now from 2011 onwards.

Bitbydeath
08-24-2010, 02:18
Also Prologue did not sell anywhere even miles close to Halo 3, so yes, GT was huge back then when PS2 had 140.000.000 users with no competition at all, i simply dont see it beeing something importatnt today, it is also just a racing game for me

I don't think you can compare the sales of prologue to Halo 3 as it was a demo and marketed so.
It'd be more accurate to compare the sales of Crackdown to Prologue as it had the demo key to Halo 3 on it.

I'm not a big fan of the GT type genre either, i do love modding cars but the getting your license in the beginning just drives me insane. Personally i'd take Motorstorm over GT anyday but thats just me.

I see GT as more of a casuals game than a hardcore as its usually the car nuts rather than the gamers that buy it. So GT + Move i think will go pretty well together and help sell each other.

Scape
08-24-2010, 04:49
GT5, basically a demo, has sold 5 mil. pretty dang good IMO lol.

labwarrior
08-24-2010, 08:26
GT5, basically a demo, has sold 5 mil. pretty dang good IMO lol.

Link ?

I only seee 3.8 million in Vgchartz and is still way of the 11 (Halo 3) + 5.5 (ODST) + Reach numbers(10+ million ?)

Also Prologue is a full game, not a demo and has sold less than Gears 1-2, Halo 3, ODST and almost same as Fable 2

I dont see how this game can be so important to PS3 with so low sales

Dasimpse
08-24-2010, 08:31
I love how people call prologue a demo when it released at 29.99 in the uk. Pretty expensive demo. 5 pounds less than odst

labwarrior
08-24-2010, 08:50
I love how people call prologue a demo when it released at 29.99 in the uk. Pretty expensive demo. 5 pounds less than odst

If it was a GT demo, it would be called GT5 demo, not GT5 Prologue i suppose

Dasimpse
08-24-2010, 08:56
Gt fans call it a demo Sony calls it a way of appeasing that 60 million dollar budget.

labwarrior
08-24-2010, 09:38
Gt fans call it a demo Sony calls it a way of appeasing that 60 million dollar budget.

Indeed :)

Demos are usually free, GT5 Prologue is not free and is not even called "demo", rather it is a full game called Prologue

mistercrow
08-24-2010, 09:41
Gt fans call it a demo Sony calls it a way of appeasing that 60 million dollar budget.

Agreed.:snicker

Minnzy
08-24-2010, 14:33
I love how people call prologue a demo when it released at 29.99 in the uk. Pretty expensive demo. 5 pounds less than odst

Didn't MS sell a beta (kind of a demo) for the price of a full game *snickers at his silly joke against Crackdown* :p I know many enjoyed the actual game lol

Yungstar 2006
08-24-2010, 20:23
The 360 & PS3 is no competition to the Wii ;) MS & Sony like to kid there self on that the Wii is no competition to them :lol:

i'd have thought that the wii is not a competitor (as yet) due to it being aimed at a different market in that Sony and MS went for the traditional console market while wii started its own market and rightly..... Sony and MS now want some of that new market.

A7
08-24-2010, 21:00
I love how people call prologue a demo when it released at 29.99 in the uk. Pretty expensive demo. 5 pounds less than odst

I've always considered GT5p a demo though, a pricey one. :) It obviously helps fund development of the 60+ million behemoth known as GT5!

I'd consider more a beta really but seeing as you can't give feedback via some tool in the game to PD servers, I call it a demo.

Edit: Sony gave me GT5p as a form of an apology when they mistreated my return PS3 when it failed, they sent it back twice damaged in the box...

At the time they extended my warranty and gave me GT5p which was cool back then.

Wasib
08-24-2010, 22:52
Also if people really want to know the sales they are here;

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html

You can basically see two things. GT5 P is closing in on the 5 million sales mark and a lot of those are in the European Union. This is why it will be a big game for Europe mostly - they love GT (a lot of racing series and evocative automobiles generate from the EU). I think however in Japan and America it will only have 'mild' success (but then I thought that about GOW 3 also). One thing about Prologue I would say is that it was released in a time when the PS3 was still expensive and also when it had a relatively small install base. Both things have changed slightly now although the price still remains relatively high. Also GT5 P was released in March (a quite time for sales). This will also now change.

I can see GT5 selling 5 million at least. I however doubt it will reach the success of GT1, GT2, GT3 and GT4 - sales wise of course. As a game it is shaping up to be the ultimate automotive heaven.

A7
08-24-2010, 23:10
GT5p released how long ago now?

Wasib
08-25-2010, 00:48
GT5p released how long ago now?

I believe it was released on March 23rd 2008 in the EU market. Around April time in the U.S. and about December 2007 for Japan. GT5 will be a global simultaneous release date.

mynd
08-25-2010, 01:22
I am still concerned that its trying to be everything to everyone. If I want a rally game I'll buy Dirt for exmaple.

Still no denying its "the" title MS is up against this holidays.
Halo Reach and Fable 3 are agood counter.

I dont expect LBP2 to make any sort of dent to be honest.

Roadside
08-25-2010, 01:36
I am still concerned that its trying to be everything to everyone. If I want a rally game I'll buy Dirt for exmaple.

Still no denying its "the" title MS is up against this holidays.
Halo Reach and Fable 3 are agood counter.

I dont expect LBP2 to make any sort of dent to be honest.
Certainly not in terms of quality. :p

Galvanise_
08-25-2010, 02:13
I am still concerned that its trying to be everything to everyone. If I want a rally game I'll buy Dirt for exmaple.

Still no denying its "the" title MS is up against this holidays.
Halo Reach and Fable 3 are agood counter.

I dont expect LBP2 to make any sort of dent to be honest.

Sales wise, no. Money for Sony, yes. LittleBigPlanet has the most amount of DLC for any game this generation and that will continue for the sequel. I bought so much DLC for the first game, I probably have about 80 worth of LBP on my HDD. :lol: I believe the first LittleBigPlanet is a substantial amount over 3.5 million sold to this day. Very good for a new IP.

I would imagine GT5P has paid for most of GT5's development. They'll probably hit profit with the first batch sold to retailers and then everything after that is Sony dancing around the water cooler. This will also be the first fully fledged GT game with DLC. The hardcore GT fans (are there any casual GT fans?) will more than likely dive in for that too.

I have a good feeling about TGS for Microsoft. A good feeling indeed. If they want to gain any sort of traction in the Japanese market, they are going to have to give Kinect a decent showing and have a big presence at TGS.

Scape
08-25-2010, 02:24
Link ?

I only seee 3.8 million in Vgchartz and is still way of the 11 (Halo 3) + 5.5 (ODST) + Reach numbers(10+ million ?)

Also Prologue is a full game, not a demo and has sold less than Gears 1-2, Halo 3, ODST and almost same as Fable 2

I dont see how this game can be so important to PS3 with so low sales

You used VGcharts? Point proven right there. And yeah, its a full game... of a demo. It's a very tiny portion of what is going to be the full game. Everyone, PS3 and 360 owners have been calling it a glorified demo for years now. Because that's basically what it is. Them charging a high price for it doesn't magically mean its not a demo. Of course it didn't sell 8mil. For one its not Halo. For another, everyone knew it was basically just a demo that they were giving us because the real game was going to take years more to finish. For another, that was also years ago with a much smaller userbase back when there was nothing but negative media towards the PS3.

Or maybe I should explain what Prologue means.

Two4DaMoney
08-25-2010, 02:28
GT5 features are surely not a bad thing.

LBP is at 4.5m in sales. Somebody watch this video and correct me where I'm wrong. "A community of 4.5 million people creating 2.5 million levels"

http://www.viddler.com/explore/PlayStatiONline/videos/1/453.366/

It went straight to the information for me. Start the video at 7mins and 30secs.

mynd
08-25-2010, 03:06
I've had this dicusison before, but unles they bundle it, I just dont see people going out of their way to purchase LBP2.
It may be a slow burner due to tie ins and bundles futher down the line, but I dont see it moving consoles, and I certianly dont expect it to hit the same figures the original did.
I really do see this doing similar numbers (in terms of % drop off from the first title) as Resistence 2 and Motostorm 2.

Two4DaMoney
08-25-2010, 03:22
I've had this dicusison before, but unles they bundle it, I just dont see people going out of their way to purchase LBP2.
It may be a slow burner due to tie ins and bundles futher down the line, but I dont see it moving consoles, and I certianly dont expect it to hit the same figures the original did.
I really do see this doing similar numbers (in terms of % drop off from the first title) as Resistence 2 and Motostorm 2.
Use your post and replace LBP with Fable and you'll have my response.

fable 2 was packed in with halo 3 wasn't it?

mynd
08-25-2010, 03:36
Use your post and replace LBP with Fable and you'll have my response.

fable 2 was packed in with halo 3 wasn't it?

Uh no. Fable 2 has never been a packed or bundled with anything to my knowledge, and it certainly wasnt ever given away free anywhere.

Look at NPD figures for LBP

http://gamasutra.com/images/090121-npd/sony-exclusives-oct-dec-2008.jpg

I'd expect that again, if not slightly less at best.

Compare that to Fable 2....

At least 1 million. It was 980k without December numbers.

As I say, slow burners arent going to make a dent at Xmas time.

Two4DaMoney
08-25-2010, 03:42
Since we were talking about total sales, I thought we were talking abut more than NPD.

Yea, I was right. A fable 3 and Halo 3 bundle. It's funny that you couldn't remember that but can remember everything about a console you don't own. I'm just saying...

http://cdsgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/xbox360bundle.jpg

mistercrow
08-25-2010, 03:44
Uh no. Fable 2 has never been a packed or bundled with anything to my knowledge, and it certainly wasnt ever given away free anywhere.

http://360-deals.com/blogs/cheap-xbox-360-news/archive/2009/04/23/4554.aspx

mistercrow
08-25-2010, 03:45
My comment posted twice again.

mynd
08-25-2010, 03:59
Since we were talking about total sales, I thought we were talking abut more than NPD.

Yea, I was right. A fable 3 and Halo 3 bundle. It's funny that you couldn't remember that but can remember everything about a console you don't own. I'm just saying...

http://cdsgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/xbox360bundle.jpg

What at Xmas time the same time it was released? No.
Maybe a 5 months to a year later.

Funny, I thought we were talking about mainting the positon, speifically the duel this Xmas time, not a year form now, and as I have said, and I will repeat again, there is no way a slow burner is going to impact anything at release time, unless it is bundled.

What happens 6 months to 12 months later isnt really goingng to be causing a stirr at Xmas is it?

If you honestly feel that LBP2 is going to sell more at Xmas than Fable 3, good luck to ya, but I just dont see it, and I certianly dont see it moving consoles.

For the record, yes LBP did

http://gamasutra.com/images/090121-npd/sony-exclusives-oct-dec-2008.jpg

Omar
08-25-2010, 04:17
If it was a GT demo, it would be called GT5 demo, not GT5 Prologue i suppose


Indeed :)

Demos are usually free, GT5 Prologue is not free and is not even called "demo", rather it is a full game called Prologue

Do you know what prologue means?

I'm not trying to say that it means demo but the word means introduction. It wasn't a demo but it wasn't a full game either.

Introduction.

Two4DaMoney
08-25-2010, 04:20
What at Xmas time the same itme it was released? No.
Maybe a year later.

Funny, I thought we were talking about mainting the positon, speifically the duel this Xmas time, not a year form now, and as I have said, and I will repeat again, there is no way a slow burner is going to impact anything at release time, unless it is bundled.

What happens 6 months to 12 months later isnt really goingng to be causing a stirr at Xmas is it?No it wasn't release during Christmas. You are right about that.

Could you not say Fable 2 was a slow burner being that it sold less than Little Big Planet if indeed what's in that vid I posted earlier is correct? That's where I'm getting at. Fable 3 won't be moving any consoles either. Halo and GT will be the console pushers this Christmas. I'm simply looking at Fable 3 in the same light as you are looking at LBP2.

mistercrow
08-25-2010, 04:26
I dont believe that Fable 3 nor LBP2 will move consoles this xmas but like Two4damoney said both GT5 and Halo Reach will.

Bitbydeath
08-25-2010, 04:30
I dont believe that Fable 3 nor LBP2 will move consoles this xmas but like Two4damoney said both GT5 and Halo Reach will.

Yeah, i agree. GT5, Halo Reach + Move & Kinect will be the console movers this year.

Two4DaMoney
08-25-2010, 04:35
I dont believe that Fable 3 nor LBP2 will move consoles this xmas but like Two4damoney said both GT5 and Halo Reach will.
It's like Sony and MS are on equal ground. GT5 vs Reach. Move vs Kinect. Fable3 vs LBP2(both sold 4m in under 2 years time). neither have the upper hand over the other this holiday season.

mistercrow
08-25-2010, 04:36
It's like Sony and MS are on equal ground. GT5 vs Reach. Move vs Kinect. Fable3 vs LBP2(both sold 4m in under 2 years time). neither have the upper hand over the other this holiday season.

I totally agree.

mynd
08-25-2010, 04:51
No it wasn't release during Christmas. You are right about that.

Could you not say Fable 2 was a slow burner being that it sold less than Little Big Planet if indeed what's in that vid I posted earlier is correct? That's where I'm getting at. Fable 3 won't be moving any consoles either. Halo and GT will be the console pushers this Christmas. I'm simply looking at Fable 3 in the same light as you are looking at LBP2.

I don't think Fable 2 was a slow burner, it was an impact title, used to push and allure consumers and Xmas time.
Fable 3 on its own wont move consoles, but if you consider it as part of the over all package of what MS is doing at Xmas, its one hell of an extra incentive for people buying a console, and are being swayed by Halo, to pick up a 2nd quality title.

At the end of the day, consoles +2 Microsft games, is better for MS sales in general.

I just think that anyone attaching themselves to GT5, arent really going to be buying LBP2 as a 2nd title for their console, they are far more likely to want someting a little more like KZ2 or GOW 3 in my opinion.

Agriel
08-25-2010, 05:01
Uh no. Fable 2 has never been a packed or bundled with anything to my knowledge, and it certainly wasnt ever given away free anywhere.

Look at NPD figures for LBP

http://gamasutra.com/images/090121-npd/sony-exclusives-oct-dec-2008.jpg

I'd expect that again, if not slightly less at best.

Compare that to Fable 2....

At least 1 million. It was 980k without December numbers.

As I say, slow burners arent going to make a dent at Xmas time.
They also had the Fable 2 and Halo 3 packed in with a controller, for almost the same price of a normal controller, so yeah it got bundled enough.
I don't care if you think they gave away LBP for free, if you ever go online in that game there are always thousands to play with, you can almost always have 4 player online play no matter what level you play in that game. But I have had this convo with you before lol and still have changed your opinion lol so meh

Bitbydeath
08-25-2010, 05:10
They also had the Fable 2 and Halo 3 packed in with a controller, for almost the same price of a normal controller, so yeah it got bundled enough.
I don't care if you think they gave away LBP for free, if you ever go online in that game there are always thousands to play with, you can almost always have 4 player online play no matter what level you play in that game. But I have had this convo with you before lol and still have changed your opinion lol so meh

I got LBP for free when i got PSN+ :)

mynd
08-25-2010, 11:39
They also had the Fable 2 and Halo 3 packed in with a controller, for almost the same price of a normal controller, so yeah it got bundled enough.

As Ive already poointed out, thats like what 6 months later thst happened, not at Xmas time, and had nothing to do with Xmas sales. Or shifitng consoles at Xmas time.


I don't care if you think they gave away LBP for free, if you ever go online in that game there are always thousands to play with, you can almost always have 4 player online play no matter what level you play in that game. But I have had this convo with you before lol and still have changed your opinion lol so meh

Perhaps you need to read about what we are talking about, Im not denying that LBP is a slow burner. Thats has nothing to do with the discusison.

What Im asking is, do you think that those million that own LBP are going to rush out and by LBP 2 day 1?
Is it a title that people ar eoging to buy a consoles for?

My opinon is, no, its not even going to make a dent in Xmas, and I certainly think that Fable 3 vs LBP2 is like a 100 metre sprinter racing a marthon runner over 200 metres.

Chille
08-25-2010, 12:10
As Ive already poointed out, thats like what 6 months later thst happened, not at Xmas time, and had nothing to do with Xmas sales. Or shifitng consoles at Xmas time.


Perhaps you need to read about what we are talking about, Im not denying that LBP is a slow burner. Thats has nothing to do with the discusison.

What Im asking is, do you think that those million that own LBP are going to rush out and by LBP 2 day 1?
Is it a title that people ar eoging to buy a consoles for?

My opinon is, no, its not even going to make a dent in Xmas, and I certainly think that Fable 3 vs LBP2 is like a 100 metre sprinter racing a marthon runner over 200 metres.

i don't think halo reach will be as big a console seller as peoeple think either i think it'l sell alot but console wise it wont sell as much as GT5 because there has already been 2 halo's this gen and 1 demo of GT5 so my guess it will sell more consoles but sell more games? now that i think will go to halo