View Full Version : Proof Move is not a copy of Wii
GotMilk?
08-27-2010, 17:10
well this is my reply to Ren_of_heavens, but since it was getting off topic, i decided to make a new thread.
found this with quick search on google.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zin-gK6NEIY
No the move is not in any way a "completely different" tech from the wiimote.This is typical fanboy fodder. It's just an advanced version of the wii mote with a bulb on top of it. And how do you know it was development "way before the wii"?. I call bs.
Sony just saw the success of the wii and motion controls and found that there was a large segment of casual gamers they could capture if they came up with a motion controller device of their own. Hence the move.
Lol.
Difference between Move and Wii tech Specs.
Wii
Wii remote
ADXL330 accelerometer.[16][39] The Wii Remote also features a PixArt optical sensor
Motion plus
The device incorporates a two-axis[5] tuning fork gyroscope,[6] which can determine rotational motion. The information captured by the angular rate sensor can then be used to distinguish true linear motion from the accelerometer readings.[7] This allows for the capture of more complex movements than possible with the Wii Remote alone.[8][9]
PlayStation®Move motion controller
Three-axis gyroscope
Three-axis accelerometer
Terrestrial megnetic field sensor
Colour-changing sphere for Playstation Eye tracking
Bluetooth® technology
Vibration feedback
Difference
Move has 3 dimensional gyroscope. Wii m+ has 2 dimensional gyroscope.
Move has terrestrial magnetic field sensor. Wii doesnt.
Move knows where the controller is. Wii doesnt.
in short, Move has alot more fancy nancy sensors. PS3 knows where the move controller is. Wii doesnt.
Bostonmess
08-27-2010, 17:29
Can you give me the gist of the vid please. I'm listening to some tunes and don't want to interrupt 'em.
in short, Move has alot more fancy nancy sensors. PS3 knows where the move controller is. Wii doesnt.
It's just an advanced version of the wii mote with a bulb on top of it.
Could you go into the bit about it being in development before the Wii a bit more please.
Sorry, but is is a copy of the Wii, but improved drastically.
Same tech, expanded upon... refined... perfected. Add the ability for the depth with the eye and glowing ball and it is a win!
People have to realize, innovation isn't always about being entirely new.. .innovation can come in adding features or expanding upon existing tech with more precision and usability.
Really, trying to convince people otherwise is a waste of time... just deal with the fact that the system works great on the Wii, but Sony saw ways to make it better. And they did.
GotMilk?
08-27-2010, 18:46
Sorry, but is is a copy of the Wii, but improved drastically.
Same tech, expanded upon... refined... perfected. Add the ability for the depth with the eye and glowing ball and it is a win!
People have to realize, innovation isn't always about being entirely new.. .innovation can come in adding features or expanding upon existing tech with more precision and usability.
Really, trying to convince people otherwise is a waste of time... just deal with the fact that the system works great on the Wii, but Sony saw ways to make it better. And they did.
did ya read what i wrote??? dont get me wrong. there is nothing wrong with being a copy, but in this case it simply isnt.
u make it sound like Sony looked at wii remote and said "lets make something like this and add things on top of it" which is not true.
Sony head some projects heading towards this direction and wii came along. i am sure wii influenced Move, but Move didnt copy off wii cause they were working on this before Wii.
unicron7
08-27-2010, 18:48
Sorry, but is is a copy of the Wii, but improved drastically.
Same tech, expanded upon... refined... perfected. Add the ability for the depth with the eye and glowing ball and it is a win!
People have to realize, innovation isn't always about being entirely new.. .innovation can come in adding features or expanding upon existing tech with more precision and usability.
Really, trying to convince people otherwise is a waste of time... just deal with the fact that the system works great on the Wii, but Sony saw ways to make it better. And they did.
or is the Wiimote a copy of Move tech? lol For all we know Nintendo could have viewed this 2003 video back in the day and then adapted the idea to their new console.
AaronSOLDIER
08-27-2010, 18:50
The Move to the Wii is what Kinect is to the Eyetoy: not original but an improved version.
or is the Wiimote a copy of Move tech? lol For all we know Nintendo could have viewed this 2003 video back in the day and then adapted the idea to their new console.
Really, all of the motion tech is based off of previous things, be it the single handed motion controller from the 70's or the gyro-mouse that has been around for years.
With each new generation, ideas and methods evolve. MOVE is the natural progression, and combination of motion control tech from various sources.
I like MOVE, so if someone takes away from this that I think copying the Wii's style but improving it is bad, they think wrong.. I love what they have done to improve on the controls I like on my Wii. They copied it... but vastly improved it. However, nowadays people think "copying" is a bad word, but in a lot of cases you cannot completely reinvent the wheel... just make it smoother :)
A quick search on Wikipedia suggests the Wii concept first saw the light of day in 2001.
That's two years before the video you posted.
Now, I don't consider Move to be a copy per se, but instead an enhancement of existing tech. I don't think it can be considered as a standalone breakthrough product and from that perspective, it's fair to mention them in the same sentence and consider them similar products.
We can debate back and forth about the tech, but when push comes to shove; ask most mainstream consumers what Move is and I guarantee they'll say it's a copy of the Wii. Whether it's a true copy or not is irrelevant.
unicron7
08-27-2010, 18:56
really, all of the motion tech is based off of previous things, be it the single handed motion controller from the 70's or the gyro-mouse that has been around for years.
With each new generation, ideas and methods evolve. Move is the natural progression, and combination of motion control tech from various sources.
I like move, so if someone takes away from this that i think copying the wii's style but improving it is bad, they think wrong.. I love what they have done to improve on the controls i like on my wii. They copied it... But vastly improved it. However, nowadays people think "copying" is a bad word, but in a lot of cases you cannot completely reinvent the wheel... Just make it smoother :)
qft
Sorry, but is is a copy of the Wii, but improved drastically.
Same tech, expanded upon... refined... perfected. Add the ability for the depth with the eye and glowing ball and it is a win!
People have to realize, innovation isn't always about being entirely new.. .innovation can come in adding features or expanding upon existing tech with more precision and usability.
Really, trying to convince people otherwise is a waste of time... just deal with the fact that the system works great on the Wii, but Sony saw ways to make it better. And they did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK7AF8_1f7Y
but how can it be a copy of the wii if they was working with the tech before the wii came out? and it's not the same as the wii
Sorry, that just shows some silly props, not any controllers. I agree with CUGUY on this. It's definitely not a 1:1 copy, but you can obviously see the similarities and influences the Wii had on Move.
I_Luv_2_Game
08-27-2010, 19:29
@GotMilk? PS Move is a copy of the Wii but just likeCuguy said it's drastically improve tech.. In my opinion as a gamer I think the Wii is a disappointment.. I played the Wii numerous of times and even with the motion plus it's disappointing.. Now using the retro controller for some games is cool but that's it.. I can't wait to tryout Sony's PS Move just because it will be different experience from playing with the DS3..
left_senseless
08-27-2010, 19:59
evolution of the Wii controller is a more appropriate statement. just as the Wii controller can be viewed as an evolution from what Sony had been attempting with the eye toy and its peripheral controllers. the Wii did popularize the scheme that Sony had dreamed about but they released it with technology closer to the mark of what it should be doing. and now Sony is responding with tech above that that is doing what the Wii should have been doing. it is performance wars all over again... this time involving how we interface with games instead of how well they are processed visually and aurally.
GotMilk?
08-27-2010, 21:04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK7AF8_1f7Y
but how can it be a copy of the wii if they was working with the tech before the wii came out? and it's not the same as the wii
exactly my point, but everyone keeps avoiding that part. i dont think half the people here actually watched the video.
btw, does anyone know what song that is??? its stuck in my head.
@GotMilk? PS Move is a copy of the Wii but just likeCuguy said it's drastically improve tech.. In my opinion as a gamer I think the Wii is a disappointment.. I played the Wii numerous of times and even with the motion plus it's disappointing.. Now using the retro controller for some games is cool but that's it.. I can't wait to tryout Sony's PS Move just because it will be different experience from playing with the DS3..
i seriously dont have any problem it being copy.... i think Ipod is a copy, but i love it.
but it cant be a copy if Sony started project in 2000.... and the wii had its influence (especially the design) as the project was progressing.
it can only be a copy if Sony decided to take wii remote and turn it into something similar for PS3 which isnt what happen as shown in the videos.
skinny_jr
08-27-2010, 22:33
Sorry, but is is a copy of the Wii, but improved drastically.
Same tech, expanded upon... refined... perfected. Add the ability for the depth with the eye and glowing ball and it is a win!
People have to realize, innovation isn't always about being entirely new.. .innovation can come in adding features or expanding upon existing tech with more precision and usability.
Really, trying to convince people otherwise is a waste of time... just deal with the fact that the system works great on the Wii, but Sony saw ways to make it better. And they did.
It can't be the same tech, cuz the PS-Eye see the light bulb while the Wiimote see the light bar!!!!!
But at the end, its the same immersion with one better than the other!!!!!
Nintendo came with a controller that can see the environment and the TV, while SONY came up with a console that can see the environment and YOU!!!! MS came up (like SONY) with a console that see the environment and YOU with a better eye!!!!!
But the Move make it see better at one point and since the Move has button it can do MORE!!!!!
sainraja
08-28-2010, 05:43
Sorry, that just shows some silly props, not any controllers. I agree with CUGUY on this. It's definitely not a 1:1 copy, but you can obviously see the similarities and influences the Wii had on Move.
The video shows that they have been thinking of a camera + move type controller for a while. Products are not designed in a day. Sony was just late on capitalizing on what this guy had been working on for them.
You are quick to brush off those silly props by calling them silly but do you seriously believe that the ball thing Marks was holding does not look at all like the Move controller we have now?
Sub-stance1
08-28-2010, 06:03
Imitation is the best form of flattery....Wii influenced move. Too many similarities there to ignore.
im the only one who doesnt care??
i like how Sony make it, even if they copy, i dont care!!
sainraja
08-28-2010, 06:13
There aren't a lot of things that are original nowadays but the videos do show Sony working on a camera + accessory controller. Products are designed. A lot of things are tested.....I can bet they had crazier ideas.
Same with Nintendo. Some of it we're not gonna find out at all.
Imitation is the best form of flattery....Wii influenced move. Too many similarities there to ignore.
No controllers or buttons required
http://www.psu.com/forums/image.php?u=79853&type=sigpic&dateline=1281539460
http://files.nintendic.com/ps2/thumbs/eyetoy2.jpg
Hmmm?
No controllers or buttons required
http://www.psu.com/forums/image.php?u=79853&type=sigpic&dateline=1281539460
http://files.nintendic.com/ps2/thumbs/eyetoy2.jpg
Hmmm?
lol got em there!
wonder what his comeback, if any, will be
his post is stealth trolling, plain and simple
Sub-stance1
08-28-2010, 06:39
lol got em there!
wonder what his comeback, if any, will be
his post is stealth trolling, plain and simple
AWWW...Look at the wittle toy camwa..it so cute..yes you are ...yes you are...lol.
Suzano-O
08-28-2010, 06:43
If I were into these types of debates, then Move, having been evidenced to be in production for a much longer time than Wii, would LOGICALLY be the original tech, making Wii the copy...but people here will refute logic when it's convenient...
Here's a striking idea, and one I find to be the most probable: MAYBE...just MAYBE...these two companies did their own thing, unaware (and by "unaware", I mean "not giving a rat's ***") of what the OTHER company was doing, and wound up birthing similar concepts with no one copying no one else...
Ah, no...there has to be SOME winner in this imaginary battle over nothing that PSU's forum-goers made up...
AWWW...Look at the wittle toy camwa..it so cute..yes you are ...yes you are...lol.
lol right on cue
u don't take offence to ONQ's post do u?
I see a lot of negativity associated with the claim that move ripped off the wii. Let's ignore the fact that Sony has been working on the tech for quite a while before the Wii was made public and answer my question: why does it matter?
Does it really matter if Sony made the tech because Nintendo has experienced such success with a similar input method? Should the real concern not be with Sony copying another company, but how well they deliver the product?
This happens all the time in various industries. One company will do something that works and others will follow suit. Usually other companies see a product, use it to develop their own and improve on the original idea. This is a good thing for consumers. We shouldn't care if one company did it first or not, we should care about which company delivers the best product.
AWWW...Look at the wittle toy camwa..it so cute..yes you are ...yes you are...lol.
lol wtf
sainraja
08-28-2010, 06:51
If I were into these types of debates, then Move, having been evidenced to be in production for a much longer time than Wii, would LOGICALLY be the original tech, making Wii the copy...but people here will refute logic when it's convenient...
Here's a striking idea, and one I find to be the most probable: MAYBE...just MAYBE...these two companies did their own thing, unaware (and by "unaware", I mean "not giving a rat's ***") of what the OTHER company was doing, and wound up birthing similar concepts with no one copying no one else...
Ah, no...there has to be SOME winner in this imaginary battle over nothing that PSU's forum-goers made up...
That's more than likely the case....we all know why this really is an issue though....
Sub-stance1
08-28-2010, 06:57
lol right on cue
u don't take offence to ONQ's post do u?
Nope not at all....just like he doesnt take any to my sig.:snicker
Now lets try to stay on topic here... This aint about cams so dont make it about it.
Why dont you respond to this post:
Originally Posted by F34R http://www.psu.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.psu.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5160009#post5160009)
Sorry, that just shows some silly props, not any controllers. I agree with CUGUY on this. It's definitely not a 1:1 copy, but you can obviously see the similarities and influences the Wii had on Move.
he was right on with that post but instead of responding, kinect gets brought into it. Just ignore my sig if you can. It cant hurt you. I promise.
lol wtf
Couldnt resist that one...lol
GotMilk?
08-28-2010, 07:45
u keep ignoring the videos from 2000 in all your arguments.....
Bostonmess
08-28-2010, 09:53
Well, it's certainly shown me something I didn't know.
It's not as much of a blatant rip off as I originally thought.
Sure the big wands are far removed from the Move controller that's out today but can anyone say that putting buttons on it wasn't an obvious idea?
As for the motion control, well, why not that too?
The only thing I'd say is that if Wii hadn't been so successful, perhaps Move wouldn't have seen the light of day (I would say "so early" but seeing as though it's been in development for ten years I can't really can I).
FinalEvangelion
08-28-2010, 11:26
The way the tech works is definitely not copied. There was some obvious influence in the final design of the product, though. Nintendo probably got Sony to take the project from the back burner and make it into reality.
All the companies get ideas from each other. Look at how Nintendo put in the analog stick into the 3DS. Is it really that big of a deal? I suppose it is for fanboys.
Yungstar 2006
08-29-2010, 11:39
The Move to the Wii is what Kinect is to the Eyetoy: not original but an improved version.
a bit like.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=780bIG6TXFk
bobtheduck
08-29-2010, 13:16
Sorry, that just shows some silly props, not any controllers. I agree with CUGUY on this. It's definitely not a 1:1 copy, but you can obviously see the similarities and influences the Wii had on Move.
I'm gonna agree with Sainraja... The transition from the "silly props" to the wand controller to the move is pretty freaking obvious. The "Silly props" were the first stages of the move. Now, I won't deny that Sony didn't use ANYTHING from the Wii. If anything, it's a combination of a wii type controller design and the wand design Sony used. But the basic ideas didn't come from the Wii. They've been getting developed very slowly. Really, Nintendo jumped on the steam that SOny had been building by ignoring the other aspects of "next gen" that Sony and MS were focusing on. In doing so, they FORCED devs to develop for it, while they had been reluctant to do so on the Eyetoy.
Sony in turn leapfrogged on the first webcam based controller (Or did they buy them? I think Richard Marks was originally from that old PC webcam game company) and the chain goes all the way back to that Commodore 64 controller, before Nintendo.
BlacJack
08-29-2010, 13:53
Sorry, that just shows some silly props, not any controllers. I agree with CUGUY on this. It's definitely not a 1:1 copy, but you can obviously see the similarities and influences the Wii had on Move.
Ya, that original video looks nothing like the Move today. That big colored ball on the tip of that stick, huh, that is SO different, I can't even believe it was designed by the SAME TEAM let alone the same company. Even how it works. Sure, both of them use colored spheres so the camera can track movements, but still, the fundamentals aren't there at all.
Oh, and the tech demos? Him using different wand motions to hurl fireballs or wind at enemies? Nothing AT ALL like the fireball tech demo they showed this year. I mean, clearly this stuff is all completely new for Sony!
I mean, I bet Sony would never have thought to add buttons to that silly colored sphere if it wasn't for Nintendo. That is just such a far out idea that it's impossible to assume.
But in reality, Sony probably didn't have as much confidence in the idea of motion control for the masses, and didn't realize it's potential. Nintendo thought it would sell, so they beat them to the market, and now all the sudden they are the only company that has original ideas. Even though Nintendy bought most of that tech and didn't design a damn thing themselves.
he was right on with that post but instead of responding, kinect gets brought into it. Just ignore my sig if you can. It cant hurt you. I promise.
Why does it not surprise me that you can't seem to fight your own battles.
GotMilk?
08-29-2010, 14:16
Ya, that original video looks nothing like the Move today. That big colored ball on the tip of that stick, huh, that is SO different, I can't even believe it was designed by the SAME TEAM let alone the same company. Even how it works. Sure, both of them use colored spheres so the camera can track movements, but still, the fundamentals aren't there at all.
Oh, and the tech demos? Him using different wand motions to hurl fireballs or wind at enemies? Nothing AT ALL like the fireball tech demo they showed this year. I mean, clearly this stuff is all completely new for Sony!
I mean, I bet Sony would never have thought to add buttons to that silly colored sphere if it wasn't for Nintendo. That is just such a far out idea that it's impossible to assume.
But in reality, Sony probably didn't have as much confidence in the idea of motion control for the masses, and didn't realize it's potential. Nintendo thought it would sell, so they beat them to the market, and now all the sudden they are the only company that has original ideas. Even though Nintendy bought most of that tech and didn't design a damn thing themselves.
Why does it not surprise me that you can't seem to fight your own battles.
lol at the sarcasm. +1.
but yea. Nintendo mightve influenced the design(look) of Move, but thats about it. In order to be a copy, Sony had to make Move out of Wii mote which isnt what happened.
Look this my opinion Sony had the tech and the idea last gen and it wasn't fully implemented for the simple fact that their current business plan was successful.
I'm not a business man but it's logical that if your product sells 100 million by doing a certain thing why the flip are you going to risk it and change it another way. (they were successful with dualshock at the time that's why they didn't bring out full motion control)
Now Nintendo last gen was not doing good with their business plan trying to compete with ps2 and xbox. So like a good business plan if you don't like the Outcome you have to Chang your current plans.
They didn't get success last with their business motto so they had to take the risk and bring out their version of motion gaming which eas successfully for them
The point I'm trying to make is Sony had the motion tech last gen, but why the heck bring it out fully if what they were doing at the time was selling them 100 million ps2
Now I've never jumped on the wii because when I tried it the technology didn't feel refined enough for my taste, but aleays wished Sony ha some sort of wand like controls. I Play motorstorm pacific rift with motion steering
Sub-stance1
08-29-2010, 16:51
Why does it not surprise me that you can't seem to fight your own battles.
What battles? I was just giving him cred for his post. Im not the one who was off topic. Cant help it if my sig bothers people. Its not that big of a deal.
BlacJack
08-29-2010, 17:35
What battles? I was just giving him cred for his post. Im not the one who was off topic. Cant help it if my sig bothers people. Its not that big of a deal.
I agree, it's not, yet you keep bringing it up.
xBSGeorge
08-30-2010, 22:51
The only thing I'd say is that if Wii hadn't been so successful, perhaps Move wouldn't have seen the light of day (I would say "so early" but seeing as though it's been in development for ten years I can't really can I).
This This and This!
There is more then enough proof out there to show that the tech was being developed at nearly the same times. Influence from one company or the other may have existed in some form, but to state one is a direct copy of the other is simply ridiculous and anyone that says otherwise is out to lunch. The proof is right in front of the doubters.
However, with that said, I have no doubt at all that Nintendo's success with the Wii may have influenced Sony to release the Move quicker or at all. The only influence I personally believe Nintendo truely gave sony with the Move is the hardcore push of awesome Core Gamer titles sony is bringing out. I will use the eyetoy as an example. Sony didn't have anything to prove its worth and didn't push developers onto the camera in the same way they have with the move.