View Full Version : What the hell is MS up to?
Twisted Metal is next fall as well, and that is outside quite a bit, there are 4 games, and 4 games>1 game also the new Ratchet and clank game... just saying I think that people are focusing more on relatively soon "core" games, MS has Reach, Fable 3, and Gears 3, Sony has LBP2, SOCOM 4, GT5, KZ3, InFAMOUS 2 etc... tbh I dont really care, I dont have enough time to play all of the older games, let alone buy every new one coming
Well MS will never be able to compete on shear numbers, they just dont have the support, they never have.
Bligmerk
09-07-2010, 08:29
What is on the books Post August next year for any of them?
Goes to the heart of the argumement, why shoudl MS be singled out here exactly?
And are they doing anything that Sony is already doing.
I guess form our rebuttle, you have no answers regarding what SOny have lined up.
Wrong again. You did mention Resistance 3 but Last Guardian, Twisted Metal, LA Noire, Sorcery, FFvs13, Ratchet & Clank All 4 One are all expected later next year, probably after summer. Their release dates will be more firmed up by E3 2011, probably with more announcements. Then there are the Starhawk and Syphon Filter rumors.
three3-times
09-07-2010, 08:33
ffs guys, i was loving this thread and i dont wanna have to close it, but its all getting a bit silly now. can we just stay on topic and stop the constant bickering, take that crap to PM if need be.
and fyi, we do action reports, i (and others) have had my eye on this thread since yesterday morning!
33x
jfkgoblue
09-07-2010, 08:40
Well MS will never be able to compete on shear numbers, they just dont have the support, they never have.
the thing is, all of those games are proven franchises, and quality ones at that, MS will be fine even though I personally hope Kinect(and move to some extent, but Sony hasn't been as bad as MS with the casual crap) fails hard so we can get past this motion crap and back to awesome games... I guess the best comparison is 360 exclusives 07 and 08 vs now.... then we had BioShock(even though it ended up being timed, no one knew it at the time),Mass Effect, Halo 3, Gears 2, Banjo, Ace Combat, fable 2 etc and 2009 and 2010(and a bit of 2011) we have reach, forza 3, gears3, fable 3,Me2(see bioshock), and apart from that: a bunch of kinect crap
the thing is, all of those games are proven franchises, and quality ones at that, MS will be fine even though I personally hope Kinect(and move to some extent, but Sony hasn't been as bad as MS with the casual crap) fails hard so we can get past this motion crap and back to awesome games... I guess the best comparison is 360 exclusives 07 and 08 vs now.... then we had BioShock(even though it ended up being timed, no one knew it at the time),Mass Effect, Halo 3, Gears 2, Banjo, Ace Combat, fable 2 etc and 2009 and 2010(and a bit of 2011) we have reach, forza 3, gears3, fable 3,Me2(see bioshock), and apart from that: a bunch of kinect crap
Oh there is no doubt MS has drained some of their resources firmly into the kinnect pond.
Metfanant
09-07-2010, 08:53
Well MS will never be able to compete on shear numbers, they just dont have the support, they never have.
And that is the core of the problem...the focus on securing exclusives through third party publishing deals...and closing down all your first party studios....or castrating them (Rare)...MS has left them in a situation where their two heaviest hitters Epic and Bungie...have nothing lined up for them past their next games...
After the current crop of announced 360 exclusives...can you give me a list of developers that will...with 100% certainty be making another exclusive title for the 360??...and how does that list of developers compare to the same list for Sony???? Not very favorably i would imagine correct???
Is that not what you guys are doing with, but with the PS3? ;)
he's conclusive proof that arguing on the internet is not worth the hassle.
i've told him before that he's on my blocked list, yet surprise surprise - now he's the mature one whose blocked me.
i'm apparently an xbox fan through and through, yet he continuously bangs on about which console is better.
he won't last long anyway, much like his former alias, so there's no point
I think we need to get this back on topic. The title says what is Microsoft doing basically. Well no-one can deny they are firmly putting their resources into the casual market. Over the years...
Metfanant
09-07-2010, 12:54
I agree with a lot of what you said...and most of it is exactly the point ive been trying to make since the first post i made in this thread... <br />
<br />
MS' strategy of opening their wallet to lure AAA...
I agree with a lot of what you said...and most of it is exactly the point ive been trying to make since the first post i made in this thread...
MS' strategy of opening their wallet to lure AAA exclusives away from Sony at the start of this gen...and to gain their own exclusive partnerships was very lucrative...and allowed the 360 to jump out to its massive lead...but now Bungie is not only no longer a first party studio...but is going multiplat...Epic has always been multiplat, but their exclusive franchise has now run its course (upon release of GeoW 3)...Valve seems to be throwing lots of support towards the PS3 right now...and even now some of the AAA exclusives that MS touted so highly early on (Bioshock, Mass Effect)...are now going multiplatform...
everyone laughed at Sony's focus on the first party...thought it was taking too long for the first party titles to come out..."where is gran turismo? where is god of war? where is killzone? blah blah..." but now as third party exclusives and 2nd party devs go the way of the dinosaur....MS has to find new publishing partners willing to take a big chunk of change up front to make exclusive games...while Sony has a boat load of first party studios to guarantee a steady flow of quality exclusives...
how anyone can argue against this, or not see it is beyond me...
Totally agree.
You know, a LONG time ago there was a quote from Kaz Hirai where he actually 'questioned' Microsoft's commitment to the video-gaming industry. This is how I interpreted it anyway. He basically questioned whether Microsoft would be around in ten years (they were talking about the whole ten-year life-cycle issue with regards to the PS3 - Oh by the way remember those who mocked us on that point also? PS3 will never last ten years! They said. New systems will make it seem old! They said. Well with 3D and Move who is looking old now? LOL!)
Anyway back to the point - I can think Kaz understood Microsoft was about the fireworks - the blockbuster model. That is good for that initial burst - but long term and even into the next-generation these models do not pay off. Look at all the executives that have left the Xbox Division? As a 360 user I would also be questioning legitimately Microsoft's strategy going forward.
And that is pretty bad news for Microsoft. Buying a PS3 is bad news for them - but to go from a 360 to a PS3 is worser still. However there is no doubt a lot of 360 users will go that way because of the depth and spread of the first-party PS3 line-up. And they would be right to. Sony has a long-term commitment to gaming - since the PS1 days to help and nurture development houses - not to come in with a bag full of money and then go and stifle independent creativity (just ask those devlopers who worked with Microsoft this generation).
Microsoft burned a lot of bridges this generation from a consumer and software development perspective. In my opinion they deserve to get this *******ing and back-lash from the online community. We gamers know the score.
I say MS has lost a lot of power to release exclusives just based on the studios now supporting PS3 (Valve, Bioware, Bungie). For sure.
But I can find some common ground with Mynd here in saying that just because MS hasn't announced anything yet, it doesn't mean they have anything in store beyond Kinect. MS for sure will put more focus on Kinect in these coming months to give the biggest impact. That's generally how they roll.
Will they match the number of exclusives the PS3 has already shown? Probably not. But they have more in store than they've shown for 2011. There will be more announcements to be sure. I'd even expect a few at TGS.
Metfanant
09-07-2010, 13:17
I say MS has lost a lot of power to release exclusives just based on the studios now supporting PS3 (Valve, Bioware, Bungie). For sure.
But I can find some common ground with Mynd here in saying that just because MS hasn't announced anything yet, it doesn't mean they have anything in store beyond Kinect. MS for sure will put more focus on Kinect in these coming months to give the biggest impact. That's generally how they roll.
Will they match the number of exclusives the PS3 has already shown? Probably not. But they have more in store than they've shown for 2011. There will be more announcements to be sure. I'd even expect a few at TGS.
i also have no doubt that MS will continue to get exclusive games...Frankly, they have to to survive...And if they really must they will dig deeper into their pockets than they have in the past to make sure it happens...
However, my problem with mynd's argument is that he is so stuck on this idea that Sony and MS have comparable lineups of exclusives 6 months from now...and even 12 months from now...this is great...and probably true...but MS' two biggest partnerships of this generation are at their end...Bungie has literally abandoned ship...and the Gears series has come to a close...
we know they have partnerships that have one game left in them (Bungie and Epic)...but after that these guys are multiplatform...there are no guarantees on the 360 front as to where the games will come from...that is the problem...and it all boils down to the fundamental philosophy of how Sony and MS go about securing exclusive titles...
you do realise this post makes you appear no better than the 'arrogant, boastful and hateful' fanboys you are describing?
three3-times
09-07-2010, 13:22
i also have no doubt that MS will continue to get exclusive games...Frankly, they have to to survive...And if they really must they will dig deeper into their pockets than they have in the past to make sure it happens...
However, my problem with mynd's argument is that he is so stuck on this idea that Sony and MS have comparable lineups of exclusives 6 months from now...and even 12 months from now...this is great...and probably true...but MS' two biggest partnerships of this generation are at their end...Bungie has literally abandoned ship...and the Gears series has come to a close...
we know they have partnerships that have one game left in them (Bungie and Epic)...but after that these guys are multiplatform...there are no guarantees on the 360 front as to where the games will come from...that is the problem...and it all boils down to the fundamental philosophy of how Sony and MS go about securing exclusive titles...
throughout this whole thread, this is the one thing i agree with.
i love my 360, even favoured it above my ps3, but theres no denying that MS are lacking on the new IP front
i also have no doubt that MS will continue to get exclusive games...Frankly, they have to to survive...And if they really must they will dig deeper into their pockets than they have in the past to make sure it happens...
However, my problem with mynd's argument is that he is so stuck on this idea that Sony and MS have comparable lineups of exclusives 6 months from now...and even 12 months from now...this is great...and probably true...but MS' two biggest partnerships of this generation are at their end...Bungie has literally abandoned ship...and the Gears series has come to a close...
we know they have partnerships that have one game left in them (Bungie and Epic)...but after that these guys are multiplatform...there are no guarantees on the 360 front as to where the games will come from...that is the problem...and it all boils down to the fundamental philosophy of how Sony and MS go about securing exclusive titles...
Yeah exactly - the world we are looking for here is 'sustainability'. Remind you off anything? Yup those ten-year life-cycle talks. And look at what excellent first-party organization gives you. In 18 months from now until Q2 2011 we will have these following games:
Killzone 3, Infamous 2, Resistance 3, MotorStorm 3, Twisted Metal, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 3, GT5, LBP 2....I mean you simply cannot argue with that. Then we have to consider the new IP coming from the creators of Killzone, the new title Santa-Monica are working on (creators of God of War 3) as well as the next-title form Quantic Dream (although this could go multi-platform - but even it it does it would be a product of Sony first-party this generation). I also fully believe Final Fantasy Versus will remain an exclusive also.
There are only two pieces of the puzzle really left now. An exclusive Take-Two game, and an exclusive Hideo Kojima game. I can see both easily happening in 2012.
Bigdoggy
09-07-2010, 14:21
Holy smokes, what a debate this topic was o.O it only happens once or twice a year.
Holy smokes, what a debate this topic was o.O it only happens once or twice a year.
amazing isn't it?
what i can't comprehend is why people don't just move on. if a particular console has no games that interest you, make a rational comment on here, then sell it.
if it wasn't for reach and the fact that i play COD on the 360, i would do just that.
GotMilk?
09-07-2010, 15:18
I say MS has lost a lot of power to release exclusives just based on the studios now supporting PS3 (Valve, Bioware, Bungie). For sure.
But I can find some common ground with Mynd here in saying that just because MS hasn't announced anything yet, it doesn't mean they have anything in store beyond Kinect. MS for sure will put more focus on Kinect in these coming months to give the biggest impact. That's generally how they roll.
Will they match the number of exclusives the PS3 has already shown? Probably not. But they have more in store than they've shown for 2011. There will be more announcements to be sure. I'd even expect a few at TGS.
dont forget Epic making multiplat. Bullet Storm.
Gears 3 is said to be the last one. so we r not sure Epic will continue making exclusives for MS.
MS's fanbase are pretty loyal.
Surviving through the RROD fiasco is an amazing feat.
I think surviving through how limited Xbox gaming library was, may have been a bigger feat.
Totally agree.
You know, a LONG time ago there was a quote from Kaz Hirai where he actually 'questioned' Microsoft's commitment to the video-gaming industry. This is how I interpreted it anyway. He basically questioned whether Microsoft would be around in ten years (they were talking about the whole ten-year life-cycle issue with regards to the PS3 - Oh by the way remember those who mocked us on that point also? PS3 will never last ten years! They said. New systems will make it seem old! They said. Well with 3D and Move who is looking old now? LOL!)
Anyway back to the point - I can think Kaz understood Microsoft was about the fireworks - the blockbuster model. That is good for that initial burst - but long term and even into the next-generation these models do not pay off. Look at all the executives that have left the Xbox Division? As a 360 user I would also be questioning legitimately Microsoft's strategy going forward.
And that is pretty bad news for Microsoft. Buying a PS3 is bad news for them - but to go from a 360 to a PS3 is worser still. However there is no doubt a lot of 360 users will go that way because of the depth and spread of the first-party PS3 line-up. And they would be right to. Sony has a long-term commitment to gaming - since the PS1 days to help and nurture development houses - not to come in with a bag full of money and then go and stifle independent creativity (just ask those devlopers who worked with Microsoft this generation).
Microsoft burned a lot of bridges this generation from a consumer and software development perspective. In my opinion they deserve to get this *******ing and back-lash from the online community. We gamers know the score.
Again you have demonstrated that you flip like a coin.
Only a couple of months ago, you were talking **** about Sony, 3D and Move...anyway, moving along.
I think surviving through how limited Xbox gaming library was, may have been a bigger feat.
Again you have demonstrated that you flip like a coin.
Only a couple of months ago, you were talking **** about Sony, 3D and Move...anyway, moving along.
But Sufi that was from a SALES viewpoint. Those views (which I do not want to air here still stand for me). However I never talked badly about Sony and its games...how it goes about constructing portfolios. I have been very negative about Sony's execution however on marketing, retail support, and PS3 launch - and that still stands - for instance their marketing for Move is a total joke and it will show in sales. But as for their games and Worldwide studios I think they are doing a very strong job. Core-gaming.
I think as a consumer I have a right to be critical of both sides. And I am exercising that option. Microsoft deserves a lot of flack for their abandonment of the core. Ultimately it will result in the core abandoning them.
But Sufi that was from a SALES viewpoint. Those views (which I do not want to air here still stand for me). However I never talked badly about Sony and its games...how it goes about constructing portfolios. I have been very negative about Sony's execution however on marketing, retail support, and PS3 launch - and that still stands - for instance their marketing for Move is a total joke and it will show in sales. But as for their games and Worldwide studios I think they are doing a very strong job. Core-gaming.
I think as a consumer I have a right to be critical of both sides. And I am exercising that option. Microsoft deserves a lot of flack for their abandonment of the core. Ultimately it will result in the core abandoning them.
But I'm not talking about that. Of course, I'm also critical of both sides, I'm also critical of some things Sony does. What I don't do is go doom and gloom on one side at a certain month and then switch it around the next month.
You weren't just against Move's marketing, you were against this product, period. I could probably find you the posts when I have free time but I remember that you weren't liking it and you didn't like Move games, you thought they were lame. You said 3D was a waste of time. I'm paraphrasing you.
You even went on to say that MS' E3 showing was better than Sony's even when MS was all about Kinect most of the time. Which shows that you agreed with MS' strategy about going casual...and now you're talking exactly the opposite. I disagreed with you back then, I agreed with Sony's strategy.
GotMilk?
09-07-2010, 16:26
I say MS has lost a lot of power to release exclusives just based on the studios now supporting PS3 (Valve, Bioware, Bungie). For sure.
But I can find some common ground with Mynd here in saying that just because MS hasn't announced anything yet, it doesn't mean they have anything in store beyond Kinect. MS for sure will put more focus on Kinect in these coming months to give the biggest impact. That's generally how they roll.
Will they match the number of exclusives the PS3 has already shown? Probably not. But they have more in store than they've shown for 2011. There will be more announcements to be sure. I'd even expect a few at TGS.
i think that was the whole argument was about. Metfanant and others thought that as a wishful thinking. and in the end, it is....
MS did not make an announcement and released a game within a year in the past. we proved that was wrong.
so there is no more excuse for MS lacking exclusives
i think that was the whole argument was about. Metfanant and others thought that as a wishful thinking. and in the end, it is....
MS did not make an announcement and released a game within a year in the past. we proved that was wrong.
so there is no more excuse for MS lacking exclusives
I for sure can agree that MS has lost much of it's capacity / outlets for potential exclusives, but I still can say for sure that MS will be putting more of a spotlight on Kinect than Move. That means that they would rather keep silent a bit more than Sony to put as much focus on Kinect as they can. I still am saying that Sony will outstrip MS from here on in with the number of exclusives. Their first party solidifies that easily. But don't rule out some more exclusives just because they haven't announced them yet. If Kinect wasn't launching, I'm sure we would have seen more by now.
I will say this. If I'm wrong, and MS only has basically what they have announced for 2011? They're screwed. They'll lose so much momentum, they won't know what hit them. Kinect better sell craploads then. But then I won't even care about the 360. So here's hoping MS announce Killler Instinct, Halflife 3, PGR5, and some other exclusive titles soon. :)
Galvanise_
09-07-2010, 17:35
Well they've got FFXIII for Japan, finally. I'm not sure it will do all that well.
GotMilk?
09-07-2010, 17:43
I for sure can agree that MS has lost much of it's capacity / outlets for potential exclusives, but I still can say for sure that MS will be putting more of a spotlight on Kinect than Move. That means that they would rather keep silent a bit more than Sony to put as much focus on Kinect as they can. I still am saying that Sony will outstrip MS from here on in with the number of exclusives. Their first party solidifies that easily. But don't rule out some more exclusives just because they haven't announced them yet. If Kinect wasn't launching, I'm sure we would have seen more by now.
I will say this. If I'm wrong, and MS only has basically what they have announced for 2011? They're screwed. They'll lose so much momentum, they won't know what hit them. Kinect better sell craploads then. But then I won't even care about the 360. So here's hoping MS announce Killler Instinct, Halflife 3, PGR5, and some other exclusive titles soon. :)
i dont understand why people keep saying MS is screwed or in trouble.
majority of gamers dont care that much for exclusive games....
non of my friends who plays Xbox 360 care. as long as games are good exclusive or multi plat, it does not matter to them. and there are plenty of good multiplat games.MS think that they have solid foundation in hardcore market and that they dont have to keep up with Sony in terms of exclusives.
and i think they r right. their foundation is rock solid and hardcore isnt going anywhere. IMO, this is why they are very comfortable going after casual market.
i dont understand why people keep saying MS is screwed or in trouble.
majority of gamers dont care that much for exclusive games....
non of my friends who plays Xbox 360 care. as long as games are good exclusive or multi plat, it does not matter to them. and there are plenty of good multiplat games.MS think that they have solid foundation in hardcore market and that they dont have to keep up with Sony in terms of exclusives.
and i think they r right. their foundation is rock solid and hardcore isnt going anywhere. IMO, this is why they are very comfortable going after casual market.
That's a good point.
But I'm not talking about that. Of course, I'm also critical of both sides, I'm also critical of some things Sony does. What I don't do is go doom and gloom on one side at a certain month and then switch it around the next month.
You weren't just against Move's marketing, you were against this product, period. I could probably find you the posts when I have free time but I remember that you weren't liking it and you didn't like Move games, you thought they were lame. You said 3D was a waste of time. I'm paraphrasing you.
You even went on to say that MS' E3 showing was better than Sony's even when MS was all about Kinect most of the time. Which shows that you agreed with MS' strategy about going casual...and now you're talking exactly the opposite. I disagreed with you back then, I agreed with Sony's strategy.
I was not against the product - just that it did little for me as a core gamer who bought the PS3 for other reasons. And I completely stick to that view. The games I just mentioned from Sony Worldwide Studios will be more than fine for me on the traditional DualShock.
As for 3D yes I did say it was a waste of time. I was particularly concerned with the implementation problems on the PS3 i.e. resolution and frames per second. These concerns are still here. However I have realized that nevertheless 3D is a big step in both movies and games, in particular games. If Sony get the resolution and frames per second issues sorted - then I can see with their Worldwide Studios Sony having a strong advantage here. However there is a long way to go to that point - nevertheless Sony are the ones pushing it hardest and it seems right now their system is the best place to be for 3D.
As for the Microsoft better conference issue - I believe again I was talking from a sales viewpoint. I remember saying people will be leaving talking about the 360 S and Natal. And that is pretty much what happened - look at the NPD results. Hype for Natal has started ramping up at retail also. In terms of sales it was a better conference.
But I am not talking about sales in this thread (for sales Microsoft are doing what they need to). I am talking about AAA core-titles. Where Sony is, and where Microsoft is. I wish to stick to this.
i dont understand why people keep saying MS is screwed or in trouble.
majority of gamers dont care that much for exclusive games....
non of my friends who plays Xbox 360 care. as long as games are good exclusive or multi plat, it does not matter to them. and there are plenty of good multiplat games.MS think that they have solid foundation in hardcore market and that they dont have to keep up with Sony in terms of exclusives.
and i think they r right. their foundation is rock solid and hardcore isnt going anywhere. IMO, this is why they are very comfortable going after casual market.
Sensationalist viewpoints, I'd assume. Anything that can be assumed as a "weakness" is made out to be a much bigger issue than it usually is even moreso when there are "rolling" consequences applied to it. With that being said, I agree with you. MS has solidified themselves as the go to platform for a great deal of games out there multiplatform or otherwise and tend to be the lead platform when it comes to some of the biggest genres of titles out there. They have a solid base and now are taking the opportunity to add onto that base with another kind of clientele. They may not seem as having many exclusives but even multiplatform titles will still draw people to the platform... hasn't stopped them before, I don't seen it stopping them now especially with Halo Reach being on the horizon. That will help draw new customers and those customers will eventually be looking for more than Halo Reach to play with the holidays rolling up.
anyone that has a 360 should not be worried, at all.
there will be games, i trust MS, they have power.
s
I was not against the product - just that it did little for me as a core gamer who bought the PS3 for other reasons. And I completely stick to that view. The games I just mentioned from Sony Worldwide Studios will be more than fine for me on the traditional DualShock.
So then why were you "for" Kinect? Doesn't that do a worse job as far as keeping core gamers happy? It just doesn't make sense. Why should you critisize something that's not even for you, it's for a different market. You could critisize the product objectively by pointing out its faults. It's like if I don't like sports games, I'm going to go in the fifa 2011 thread and start saying how this game is a joke because it does little for me...
As for 3D yes I did say it was a waste of time. I was particularly concerned with the implementation problems on the PS3 i.e. resolution and frames per second. These concerns are still here. However I have realized that nevertheless 3D is a big step in both movies and games, in particular games. If Sony get the resolution and frames per second issues sorted - then I can see with their Worldwide Studios Sony having a strong advantage here. However there is a long way to go to that point - nevertheless Sony are the ones pushing it hardest and it seems right now their system is the best place to be for 3D.
When we don't know anything, how can you pass judgement?
As for the Microsoft better conference issue - I believe again I was talking from a sales viewpoint. I remember saying people will be leaving talking about the 360 S and Natal. And that is pretty much what happened - look at the NPD results. Hype for Natal has started ramping up at retail also. In terms of sales it was a better conference.
But I am not talking about sales in this thread (for sales Microsoft are doing what they need to). I am talking about AAA core-titles. Where Sony is, and where Microsoft is. I wish to stick to this.
Again, since Move didn't concern you because it does little for you, as long as Sony is throwing the games at you, why are you concerned about sales? Sure, sales are good for a console but I don't understand why you would go against Sony's conference completely at that time (I mean, you straight out said that MS conference was better, not even giving Sony props for showing so many great games) just because you thought that it wasn't going to sell consoles right away?
Well, this makes me think your forecast only lasts a couple or so months. It doesn't seem like you see the bigger picture, you just see what's happening now.
I donno anyone who'd look at these conferences just to see what the console is going to sell in the next couple of months. You don't know what games are going to sell, if you're talking about sales, look at game sales as well. Sony had a much better game showing and yet you were against them...just because MS came out with an S model.
Ok, what do you think Sony should've done here? Make a Slimmer slim? Ok, get right on it Sony, you know the priority! I wonder what you were saying about MS when Sony came out with the Slim model themselves...I don't recall you being concerned about MS.
You know why not? Because not everything is that easy. You can't always outdo your competition in month-to-month sales, it has to be a momentum. I see Sony building up a big momentum whereas MS came out with a good thing that isn't going to last them more than 6 months, lucky if it goes beyond. In the end, a hardware isn't going to do **** if there aren't plenty of games out there. Now, MS may have plenty but Sony is just going to have a lot more, people like variety. You get the point.
Ghost-Rhayne
09-07-2010, 18:50
Sony are the ones pushing it hardest and it seems right now their system is the only place to be for 3D.
Fixed. :)
I think this is less about what MS have, than what they are prepared to do when it comes to exclusive content. They may well be able to see a 3rd party game well in advance and fork out the cash necessary for (timed) exclusivity, giving them a quality (because they've seen it and judged it as such) exclusive (because they've paid for the privilege). No need for first party devs then. (The Crytek game announced at E3 may well only be timed of course).
The question is, with the 360 where it is and Kinect apparently the focus (if the 360 is still even the focus of the entertainment division of course), do they feel the need to do anything more than this? I don't think so.
They may well have very little on the back-burner beyond what we know of. With the cash option in their pocket though they can perhaps afford to watch the market from a distance and wait.
i dont understand why people keep saying MS is screwed or in trouble.
majority of gamers dont care that much for exclusive games....
non of my friends who plays Xbox 360 care. as long as games are good exclusive or multi plat, it does not matter to them. and there are plenty of good multiplat games.MS think that they have solid foundation in hardcore market and that they dont have to keep up with Sony in terms of exclusives.
and i think they r right. their foundation is rock solid and hardcore isnt going anywhere. IMO, this is why they are very comfortable going after casual market.
Meaning they will decline in sales over their last 10.4 million or whatever the number was. They will lose momentum and not build on it. If it comes down to just a bunch of multiplatform games, more people will buy the PS3 than before because of the added exclusives. Why buy one system that will have say 8 good games all year when you can buy another with those 8 games plus another 5 good exclusives? The term screwed was overdramatic on my part, but momentum will not be there for the 360 if they don't have any more exclusives for 2011.
But my main point was I doubt that will happen. :) The 360 I'm sure will show more for 2011 than they've shown.
Two4DaMoney
09-07-2010, 19:03
anyone that has a 360 should not be worried, at all.
there will be games, i trust MS, they have power.
Keep the faith:lol: Sounds like you are praying.
Keep the faith:lol: Sounds like you are praying.
lol, not at all. im not as big of a gamer as i used to be. Gears and reach will tie me until the end of 2011 no problem.
Dasimpse
09-07-2010, 19:42
I agree with pez. I'm not worried coz I'm lucky to get 6 hours a week now. Probs nit even that. I'm getting old and have a family. I have stacks of games I font get to play
radgamer420
09-07-2010, 20:01
anyone that has a 360 should not be worried, at all.
there will be games, i trust MS, they have power.
Almighty MS please make some exclusives rain from the heavens. We trust in your power.:lol:
I'm just joking around. No offense intended.
s
So then why were you "for" Kinect? Doesn't that do a worse job as far as keeping core gamers happy? It just doesn't make sense. Why should you critisize something that's not even for you, it's for a different market. You could critisize the product objectively by pointing out its faults. It's like if I don't like sports games, I'm going to go in the fifa 2011 thread and start saying how this game is a joke because it does little for me...
When we don't know anything, how can you pass judgement?
Again, since Move didn't concern you because it does little for you, as long as Sony is throwing the games at you, why are you concerned about sales? Sure, sales are good for a console but I don't understand why you would go against Sony's conference completely at that time (I mean, you straight out said that MS conference was better, not even giving Sony props for showing so many great games) just because you thought that it wasn't going to sell consoles right away?
Well, this makes me think your forecast only lasts a couple or so months. It doesn't seem like you see the bigger picture, you just see what's happening now.
I donno anyone who'd look at these conferences just to see what the console is going to sell in the next couple of months. You don't know what games are going to sell, if you're talking about sales, look at game sales as well. Sony had a much better game showing and yet you were against them...just because MS came out with an S model.
Ok, what do you think Sony should've done here? Make a Slimmer slim? Ok, get right on it Sony, you know the priority! I wonder what you were saying about MS when Sony came out with the Slim model themselves...I don't recall you being concerned about MS.
You know why not? Because not everything is that easy. You can't always outdo your competition in month-to-month sales, it has to be a momentum. I see Sony building up a big momentum whereas MS came out with a good thing that isn't going to last them more than 6 months, lucky if it goes beyond. In the end, a hardware isn't going to do **** if there aren't plenty of games out there. Now, MS may have plenty but Sony is just going to have a lot more, people like variety. You get the point.
To be honest I have never been for Kinect. Sales? OK that is a different issue. The analogy with FIFA is interesting. Personally I have never been one for going to various games/genres I do not play to trash talk...I did not trash talk Kinect either. So then why Move? Perhaps because it would be 'nice' to see Sony back at the top. And why does that matter for me? Hard to say - but perhaps it would lead to just one more reason to work on the PS3 than another system. And as a user that would be beneficial.
As for 3D - we know quite a lot - well I do. There will be resolution and frames per second drop. However perhaps most people will not care about this - Sony could get away with it. I agree I was very un-interested in 3D but it does make sense. Get the development studios prepared for the technical challenges for the next-generation for instance. Also help develop that demand for 3D. I think the issue I took with the whole 3D thing was how boring it would be for use watching back at home who could not see the 3D effects. Furthermore there was the issue of (at the time) constant talk of 3D out of Sony which got boring and tedious.
As for the games at Sony's conference we knew about this pretty much beforehand. Although you say right that one should look at the long-term you also need to think of the short-run. Anyway surely Xbox 360 S and Kinect will have long-term sale effects? Your analysis of Kinect could turn out correct - but as I have stated elsewhere Microsoft marketing and retail support could change that (something Sony desperately needs to sort out for itself).
At the end of the day it seems you take issue to my comments. You have every right to question them (hence why I responded) - but my views will not change. Perhaps then we should avoid each other in the future.
Fixed. :)
;).
anyone that has a 360 should not be worried, at all.
there will be games, i trust MS, they have power.
You know...this is a reason quite a few bought the 360 in the first place. Oh it is Microsoft. They will pay for the exclusives and take the 'epic' win. Now let us see how that attitude pays them in the next few years :snicker.
lol, not at all. im not as big of a gamer as i used to be. Gears and reach will tie me until the end of 2011 no problem.
I agree with pez. I'm not worried coz I'm lucky to get 6 hours a week now. Probs nit even that. I'm getting old and have a family. I have stacks of games I font get to play
Is that not strange? Microsoft goes soft on the core Xbox crowd and now they feel they are no longer big gamers or older? Wow these guys have all the excuses lined up :lol:.
jfkgoblue
09-07-2010, 20:43
Well they've got FFXIII for Japan, finally. I'm not sure it will do all that well.
yeah i think all 3 of the 360-only Japaneese owners will love to be able to buy a year old release of an inferior version of a game for full price :P
Is that not strange? Microsoft goes soft on the core Xbox crowd and now they feel they are no longer big gamers or older? Wow these guys have all the excuses lined up :lol:.
honestly, no offense, but grow up.
The Sith
09-07-2010, 21:00
yeah i think all 3 of the 360-only Japaneese owners will love to be able to buy a year old release of an inferior version of a game for full price :P
it may have been inferior to the ps3 as for visuals (sub hd) but it sold well enough the 360 folks enjoyed it and that all that matters.
To be honest I have never been for Kinect. Sales? OK that is a different issue. The analogy with FIFA is interesting. Personally I have never been one for going to various games/genres I do not play to trash talk...I did not trash talk Kinect either. So then why Move? Perhaps because it would be 'nice' to see Sony back at the top. And why does that matter for me? Hard to say - but perhaps it would lead to just one more reason to work on the PS3 than another system. And as a user that would be beneficial.
As for 3D - we know quite a lot - well I do. There will be resolution and frames per second drop. However perhaps most people will not care about this - Sony could get away with it. I agree I was very un-interested in 3D but it does make sense. Get the development studios prepared for the technical challenges for the next-generation for instance. Also help develop that demand for 3D. I think the issue I took with the whole 3D thing was how boring it would be for use watching back at home who could not see the 3D effects. Furthermore there was the issue of (at the time) constant talk of 3D out of Sony which got boring and tedious.
As for the games at Sony's conference we knew about this pretty much beforehand. Although you say right that one should look at the long-term you also need to think of the short-run. Anyway surely Xbox 360 S and Kinect will have long-term sale effects? Your analysis of Kinect could turn out correct - but as I have stated elsewhere Microsoft marketing and retail support could change that (something Sony desperately needs to sort out for itself).
At the end of the day it seems you take issue to my comments. You have every right to question them (hence why I responded) - but my views will not change. Perhaps then we should avoid each other in the future.
;).
You know...this is a reason quite a few bought the 360 in the first place. Oh it is Microsoft. They will pay for the exclusives and take the 'epic' win. Now let us see how that attitude pays them in the next few years :snicker.
Is that not strange? Microsoft goes soft on the core Xbox crowd and now they feel they are no longer big gamers or older? Wow these guys have all the excuses lined up :lol:.
Same goes for all the graphic whores that popped up this gen. Where were they these past two gens? It's been 5 years since the 360 launched. Some people started out gaming as a senior in high school, but now they are starting their first jobs and might have kids.
However, my problem with mynd's argument is that he is so stuck on this idea that Sony and MS have comparable lineups of exclusives 6 months from now...and even 12 months from now...this is great...and probably true...but MS' two biggest partnerships of this generation are at their end...Bungie has literally abandoned ship...and the Gears series has come to a close...
Im not sure how you got that from what I was saying, but it was certianly not my intention to say that, I dont beleive that MS can ever compete 1 for 1 in terms of titles, I felt I had said this multiple times, what I do think is they need to be a bit more choosey in what they do put their money towards, they can ill afford Ninja Blade and Too Human type games again. In saying that I would welcome a Too Human 2 if they can fix the issues.
Like anyone under weight in a boxing ring, they need to box a bit smarter, and make sure their punches actually count/land.
I still dont think that MS's problem is that they destroyed their inhouse devlopment. A lot of it went along time ago, and while the likes of Ensemble was closed last year, they only ever produced one Xbox360 game.
Where MS's problems lie is that increasingly, independant developers have been swallowed by the big studios. DICE, Bizzare etc all once made staple game franchises for MS, and MS has failed to replace them.
Realistically, if these companies hadnt gone the way they did, we would be talking about PGR5 being released this year, we woud be talking about Rallisport (4)?, we would be talking about Mass Effect still being exclusive.
MS have by in large focused on getting the consoe to a point where 3rd party support is where they want to be at, and thats understandable, its all care, no risk, but they need to be taking care of the core gamers as well, and frankly I will be super pissed if their is not at least 2 big game announcments for next year.
Is that not strange? Microsoft goes soft on the core Xbox crowd and now they feel they are no longer big gamers or older? Wow these guys have all the excuses lined up :lol:.
wow are you really putting that forward?
when i got my 360/PS3 i was at university and had lectures only twice a week. i had 5 days off a week to do whatever i wanted, i gamed A LOT. I graduated in 2008 and was jobless until i used the rest of my student loan up .
fast forward two years, i have 2 jobs (9-5 and evening), i have a girlfriend at Uni whom i visit at the weekends. I really dont have as much time as i used to. I may not wank over my gaming habit as much as you do, but please grow up and THINK before you post something like that.
I hope this post has made you look stupid.
wow are you really putting that forward?
when i got my 360/PS3 i was at university and had lectures only twice a week. i had 5 days off a week to do whatever i wanted, i gamed A LOT. I graduated in 2008 and was jobless until i used the rest of my student loan up .
fast forward two years, i have 2 jobs (9-5 and evening), i have a girlfriend at Uni whom i visit at the weekends. I really dont have as much time as i used to. I may not wank over my gaming habit as much as you do, but please grow up and THINK before you post something like that.
I hope this post has made you look stupid.
lies rapped in excuses rapped in lies.
My Library: (doesn't include XBLA/PSN games)
PS3: 3 MP and 15 exclusives
360: 7 MP and 9 exclusives
Exclusives haven't been an issue with me. I've had more exclusives on the PS3 than the 360, and I don't feel that Microsoft is letting me down. I get enough playing on both systems with the games that I buy for the system.
Look in a few months we will be complaining about something else MS is doing wrong. Guys lets forcus on the games that are coming out and not the childish mummy he stolen my cupcake stuff
To be honest I have never been for Kinect. Sales? OK that is a different issue. The analogy with FIFA is interesting. Personally I have never been one for going to various games/genres I do not play to trash talk...I did not trash talk Kinect either. So then why Move? Perhaps because it would be 'nice' to see Sony back at the top. And why does that matter for me? Hard to say - but perhaps it would lead to just one more reason to work on the PS3 than another system. And as a user that would be beneficial.
As for 3D - we know quite a lot - well I do. There will be resolution and frames per second drop. However perhaps most people will not care about this - Sony could get away with it. I agree I was very un-interested in 3D but it does make sense. Get the development studios prepared for the technical challenges for the next-generation for instance. Also help develop that demand for 3D. I think the issue I took with the whole 3D thing was how boring it would be for use watching back at home who could not see the 3D effects. Furthermore there was the issue of (at the time) constant talk of 3D out of Sony which got boring and tedious.
As for the games at Sony's conference we knew about this pretty much beforehand. Although you say right that one should look at the long-term you also need to think of the short-run. Anyway surely Xbox 360 S and Kinect will have long-term sale effects? Your analysis of Kinect could turn out correct - but as I have stated elsewhere Microsoft marketing and retail support could change that (something Sony desperately needs to sort out for itself).
At the end of the day it seems you take issue to my comments. You have every right to question them (hence why I responded) - but my views will not change. Perhaps then we should avoid each other in the future.
Trust me, I have no issues with your comments, I have issues with your logic.
You said at one point that we need the PS3 at top because more devs will get their hands on it, I agree with it and I thought it was a given. However, where that logic fails is when you somehow firmly believe that capturing the casual market will be the key to that.
It's not. Move or Kinect isn't going to do much but ruin hardcore gaming a bit more, we'll start to see more and more hardcore titles that will be made for core gamers as well, meaning a lot of game mechanics watered down, not requiring a lot of skill to master. It's already happening, that's why games are too easy these days.
Anyway, I don't have a problem with sales...more sales are always good, casual sales are good but as long as Sony doesn't prefer casual over hardcore, which is what MS seems to be doing atm. I don't know why you agree with that strategy. I just don't get it, you're a hardcore gamer and yet you feel that going the casual way "just to get sales" is the way to go. It's not!
What did that do for Nintendo? Money? What about games for "you"? Is Wii your main console? Probably not since your avatar has not changed to the Wii-remote yet.
The biggest flaw with your whole argument about Sony's lack of diving into the casual market like Nintendo did and how MS is doing is that, that's just going to hurt the hardcore gaming scene. It seems like it's already hurting on this side of the fence.
What I'm saying is that, sales are good as long as it means more hardcore games (or good worthy games), not just any games (such as minigames or games for casuals). The strategy you want Sony to follow means more casual games. I'm sorry, is this whole thing a big profit war? NO! It's a game war! (console but you know what I'm saying)
I think if this is what MS really wants, profits...sales, by giving up on core a little bit, then they've just shot themselves in the foot and given Sony the lead because it will automatically differentiate Sony having the only current-gen hardcore-gaming home console left on the market.
Sony has a strategy to go up to the top but without losing focus and even if it means loss of sales now, it will be a much better future for them going into the next-gen and at the end of this generation. Maybe you shouldn't just look at the bigger picture but the full picture. Every time Sony partners with a new developer, means long-term win for us gamers. No other company is doing that right now.
It seems like Nintendo and now MS want the profits more than fighting the real fight. ****'s not easy though, I can't blame them but Sony's doing it the hard way but the right way in my opinion.
So there goes your sales argument. Like I said, I don't mind your comments, just that they don't make any sense. Did it ever occur to you that your views change over time? Maybe it's because you're not seeing the full picture and you're realizing it as time goes by? I donno. Seems that way to me.
radgamer420
09-08-2010, 01:20
i dont understand why people keep saying MS is screwed or in trouble.
majority of gamers dont care that much for exclusive games....
non of my friends who plays Xbox 360 care. as long as games are good exclusive or multi plat, it does not matter to them. and there are plenty of good multiplat games.MS think that they have solid foundation in hardcore market and that they dont have to keep up with Sony in terms of exclusives.
and i think they r right. their foundation is rock solid and hardcore isnt going anywhere. IMO, this is why they are very comfortable going after casual market.
Thats a very good point.
See this is actually where being me has a HUGE advantage... Not being able to afford to support all the systems you own mean even if they don't release any games I want at any stage means I still have the old ones I couldn't afford at the time! :p
Trust me, I have no issues with your comments, I have issues with your logic.
You said at one point that we need the PS3 at top because more devs will get their hands on it, I agree with it and I thought it was a given. However, where that logic fails is when you somehow firmly believe that capturing the casual market will be the key to that.
It's not. Move or Kinect isn't going to do much but ruin hardcore gaming a bit more, we'll start to see more and more hardcore titles that will be made for core gamers as well, meaning a lot of game mechanics watered down, not requiring a lot of skill to master. It's already happening, that's why games are too easy these days.
Anyway, I don't have a problem with sales...more sales are always good, casual sales are good but as long as Sony doesn't prefer casual over hardcore, which is what MS seems to be doing atm. I don't know why you agree with that strategy. I just don't get it, you're a hardcore gamer and yet you feel that going the casual way "just to get sales" is the way to go. It's not!
What did that do for Nintendo? Money? What about games for "you"? Is Wii your main console? Probably not since your avatar has not changed to the Wii-remote yet.
The biggest flaw with your whole argument about Sony's lack of diving into the casual market like Nintendo did and how MS is doing is that, that's just going to hurt the hardcore gaming scene. It seems like it's already hurting on this side of the fence.
What I'm saying is that, sales are good as long as it means more hardcore games (or good worthy games), not just any games (such as minigames or games for casuals). The strategy you want Sony to follow means more casual games. I'm sorry, is this whole thing a big profit war? NO! It's a game war! (console but you know what I'm saying)
I think if this is what MS really wants, profits...sales, by giving up on core a little bit, then they've just shot themselves in the foot and given Sony the lead because it will automatically differentiate Sony having the only current-gen hardcore-gaming home console left on the market.
Sony has a strategy to go up to the top but without losing focus and even if it means loss of sales now, it will be a much better future for them going into the next-gen and at the end of this generation. Maybe you shouldn't just look at the bigger picture but the full picture. Every time Sony partners with a new developer, means long-term win for us gamers. No other company is doing that right now.
It seems like Nintendo and now MS want the profits more than fighting the real fight. ****'s not easy though, I can't blame them but Sony's doing it the hard way but the right way in my opinion.
So there goes your sales argument. Like I said, I don't mind your comments, just that they don't make any sense. Did it ever occur to you that your views change over time? Maybe it's because you're not seeing the full picture and you're realizing it as time goes by? I donno. Seems that way to me.
I think the issue you need to grasp is one that I thought many people had got quite a while back (since the Nintendo Wii was released). Casual market is where the money and sales are. Look at Nintendo. Look at Apple and their App store which houses casual games. Look at Kinect. Look at Move also. It is VITAL there is a strong a Sony in that market. The tide is totally going outwards towards the casual market - these are market and industry trends. You seem to be indicating the exact opposite.
See the difference between you and me is this. Even though I am a hardcore gamer I am not blinded by such a hobby. I realize quite clearly where the video-game market is going. And I realize Sony needs to capture that 'pie' to be a success going forward. Otherwise it will no longer be relevant.
The comment about leaving Sony as the only real place where you can get AAA hits is one I mentioned earlier - so yes I agree there. Hence why the positive comments about Sony Worldwide Studios. But at the same time it would be foolish of us to Sony will see success with this strategy if it abandons the casuals. Hence why the critique on Microsoft's first-party from me. Hence why the critique on Sony's marketing and execution of PlayStation Move.
The one who 'wins' will be the one who gets the balance right between these two points. Microsoft started out pretty much as a core-gamers machine - their move to Natal (Kinect) will get them a lot of sales that they need. However I have raised my questions to such a strategy in this thread.
Nevertheless even if the worst case scenario I dragged out happens i.e. the core abandoning their system - it still does not mean Microsoft will not enjoy heavy success - i.e. the casual market.
Your argument about views changing over time...come on man. EVERYONES views change over time. It is called learning! A person who thinks 'he knows it all' is arrogant. I dunno - maybe you have a crystal ball somewhere :snicker.
GotMilk?
09-08-2010, 02:56
Meaning they will decline in sales over their last 10.4 million or whatever the number was. They will lose momentum and not build on it. If it comes down to just a bunch of multiplatform games, more people will buy the PS3 than before because of the added exclusives. Why buy one system that will have say 8 good games all year when you can buy another with those 8 games plus another 5 good exclusives? The term screwed was overdramatic on my part, but momentum will not be there for the 360 if they don't have any more exclusives for 2011.
But my main point was I doubt that will happen. :) The 360 I'm sure will show more for 2011 than they've shown.
You are right. In hardcore market, MS is losing momentum already. but what i meant is that MS is trying to expand their market beyond hardcore and they are reaching into casual gaming market. Also, you are right about that exclusives and such, but most of my friends bought xboxes cause they knew some of their friends who had xboxs. so they never bought the console for exclusives.
in the end, your argument boils down to "exclusive moves consoles alot" and my argument is "exclusive impact isnt as big. marketing and social gaming huge impact"
There is no good or bad in what MS is doing. there are many sides to this.
It is good business move, but it is not good for us, hardcore games.
however, i think this is necessary. Each console should specialize in different market.
Let's be honest here I wouldn't like to be a publisher/developer releasing a game in the next 12 months what with Halo Reach, CoD: Black Ops and Gran Turismo 5. These three titles alone are going to take away so much time from gamers that many titles in 2011 are going to suffer.
GotMilk?
09-08-2010, 15:22
Let's be honest here I wouldn't like to be a publisher/developer releasing a game in the next 12 months what with Halo Reach, CoD: Black Ops and Gran Turismo 5. These three titles alone are going to take away so much time from gamers that many titles in 2011 are going to suffer.
that makes no sense..... so according to you, after MW2, all games should have stopped selling for 12 months. what u said is simply isnt true and does not justify lack of MS exclusives
YoungMullah88
09-08-2010, 17:00
what he said makes perfect sense...in a way. example ppl that only play socom bought confrontation for the ps3 and nothing else (except for madden) and please believe thats not good business for sony. some gamers cater to certain games and they only play that game for years without buying new ones
GotMilk?
09-08-2010, 17:07
what he said makes perfect sense...in a way. example ppl that only play socom bought confrontation for the ps3 and nothing else (except for madden) and please believe thats not good business for sony. some gamers cater to certain games and they only play that game for years without buying new ones
then, i will use my MW2 argument again. Look at red dead redemption. look at ME2. look at GoW3. they all sold very well...
there arnt that many gamers like that anyway. Also, those gamers typically do not buy games often, so it has nothing to do with one game causing lower sales to other games over a year.
that makes no sense..... so according to you, after MW2, all games should have stopped selling for 12 months. what u said is simply isnt true and does not justify lack of MS exclusivesYou might have proven me wrong had I stated that game sales in 2011 would suffer based on CoD: Black Ops alone.
Unfortunately in your haste to respond you failed to notice that I mentioned two other titles. Now you might live under a rock, but Gran Turismo and Halo do tend to sell quite good and consume a lot of peoples time; they also so happen to be the biggest respective exclusive franchises on the Playstation and Xbox. Gran Turismo 5 will be the first proper GT since 2005, while Halo Reach the first proper Halo title since 2007 (Prologue and ODST are filler titles).
Now you might not have an interest in any of the three above titles, but the vast bulk of Playstation and Xbox owners do, and with the amount of content, the depth and the sheer awesomeness that they provide - well it's a no-brainer that their combined eye-bleeding insanity damage the sales of other titles.
Galvanise_
09-08-2010, 18:30
Getting Brain Training for Kinect in Japan as a launch title is a fairly decent move. Hopefully they have a few more decent surprises for their Keynote. Their press conference was rather poor.
GotMilk?
09-08-2010, 18:39
You might have proven me wrong had I stated that game sales in 2011 would suffer based on CoD: Black Ops alone.
Unfortunately in your haste to respond you failed to notice that I mentioned two other titles. Now you might live under a rock, but Gran Turismo and Halo do tend to sell quite good and consume a lot of peoples time; they also so happen to be the biggest respective exclusive franchises on the Playstation and Xbox. Gran Turismo 5 will be the first proper GT since 2005, while Halo Reach the first proper Halo title since 2007 (Prologue and ODST are filler titles).
Now you might not have an interest in any of the three above titles, but the vast bulk of Playstation and Xbox owners do, and with the amount of content, the depth and the sheer awesomeness that they provide - well it's a no-brainer that their combined eye-bleeding insanity damage the sales of other titles.
and will not last u a year. will take alot of time?? yes. will cause players to not buy games over a year??? no.
few of my friends still play MW2. but they still buy other games... just because they are playing that game over a year doesnt mean they wont buy other games. they like to keep MW2 and place once a week or so. but usually, they play other games.
i said "few" cause most of my friends sold MW2 by march-April.
Proof??? just look at "players online" after game is released for couple months.
compare that to the first month's average number of players. wayyyyy lower. the effect does not last a year.
and i think u have my argument confused. i am simply saying the effect is not really that great after a year. but couple months after those games are released??? the game sales may suffer.
overthirtygamernj
09-08-2010, 20:31
From what I have gathered, their business strategy seems to hinge on the initial sale of their product, and then after that, they really don't seem to care about keeping you as a customer. Their shoddy hardware for the first two/three years and lack of exclusive content showed that, and I get the feeling it will be the same for the Kinect. I hung onto it throughout the years, blowing off dust for the occasional exclusive. Had I known that it would have been like this in 2005....probably wouldn't have spent $400 on it. They focus on sales numbers and not on customer satisfaction.
I have the exact opposite opinion. I bought my PS3 and have played a few exclusives that I loved and the rest I thought were mediocre. My PS3 collects as much dust as your Xbox 360.
GotMilk?
09-08-2010, 20:42
^^^ it says u have zero trophies... so which exclusives have u played exactly??
Two4DaMoney
09-08-2010, 20:49
:lol:
overthirtygamernj
09-08-2010, 21:03
^^^ it says u have zero trophies... so which exclusives have u played exactly??
I don't think that widget is updated...played Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Little Big Planet, Resistance, MGS4 and God of War III.
Here is my actual list of trophies:
http://us.playstation.com/publictrophy/index.htm?onlinename=Over30gamernj
EDIT: Removed the non-working widget from my signature
The ones I want to try but haven't are: Infamous, Killzone 2, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain. Out of those 4 only Uncharted 2 is the one I want most. But my list of games I want to try contains a lot of multi-platform games and those I usually buy for the 360 because they are usually cheaper on ebay for the xbox than the PS3....from what I've seen. On top of that Halo: Reach will be here by the end of the week and I can't see myself playing anything else for at least a month or so. After that comes Kinect which I will more than likely get at launch because my fiance just moved in and if I want to game I have to either get her involved or sneak in game time when she isn't home.
It boils down to personal preference, which was really my point...some people look at MS's lineup and think there is nothing to get excited about, others still like what MS has to offer more than Sony.
Metfanant
09-08-2010, 21:36
It boils down to personal preference, which was really my point...some people look at MS's lineup and think there is nothing to get excited about, others still like what MS has to offer more than Sony.but you're still missing the point of the argument...This is not a discussion of what upcoming lineups each company has....it is more a discussion of the philosophies which each company follows to secure their exclusive titles and where each philosophy has left each of the companies...
While Sony and MS do have comparable upcoming exclusive lineups and that certainly comes down to personal preference...the question remains, that after Halo Reach and Gears 3 are released what does MS do to replace Bungie as a developer...and Gears as a franchise in their lineup of games? And the answer to that is, we simply don't know...While Sony has a large stable of first party developers...this means that even after Naughty Dog is done with Uncharted, or Santa Monica is done with God of War, or whatever other studio you want to discuss...their NEXT franchise will also be exclusive to the PS3...
because MS relies so heavily on third party studios and buying exclusive rights and such, when those contracts are up, those studios are not guaranteed to make their next game exclusive to the 360...it leaves MS in a position where they must go out and find more third party devs to sign exclusive deals with...and the current climate of the industry has shown that independent developers (Epic, Bungie, Insomniac) are going to move towards multiplatform development...leaving MS in tight situation...
but you're still missing the point of the argument...This is not a discussion of what upcoming lineups each company has....it is more a discussion of the philosophies which each company follows to secure their exclusive titles and where each philosophy has left each of the companies...
While Sony and MS do have comparable upcoming exclusive lineups and that certainly comes down to personal preference...the question remains, that after Halo Reach and Gears 3 are released what does MS do to replace Bungie as a developer...and Gears as a franchise in their lineup of games? And the answer to that is, we simply don't know...While Sony has a large stable of first party developers...this means that even after Naughty Dog is done with Uncharted, or Santa Monica is done with God of War, or whatever other studio you want to discuss...their NEXT franchise will also be exclusive to the PS3...
because MS relies so heavily on third party studios and buying exclusive rights and such, when those contracts are up, those studios are not guaranteed to make their next game exclusive to the 360...it leaves MS in a position where they must go out and find more third party devs to sign exclusive deals with...and the current climate of the industry has shown that independent developers (Epic, Bungie, Insomniac) are going to move towards multiplatform development...leaving MS in tight situation...
While I'm non to worried about this generaiton,i think its to far in, if you extend it to launch of a new console, MS really need to have some studios to launch a new console.
The majority of launch titles for any new console comes from within their own development teams.
At the moment i think MS would struggle to launch a new console with a decent software launch.
That, more than anything is why I think MS isnt launching anythign anytime soon.
I also wonder if with the latest round of "replacements" and the E & D department at MS, if someone hasnt finally woken up and smelled the roses, and relaised they might neeed to start pulling finger in temrs of rebuilding their software studios if they want a next-gen console launch.
I don't think that widget is updated...played Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Little Big Planet, Resistance, MGS4 and God of War III.
Here is my actual list of trophies:
http://us.playstation.com/publictrophy/index.htm?onlinename=Over30gamernj
EDIT: Removed the non-working widget from my signature
The ones I want to try but haven't are: Infamous, Killzone 2, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain. Out of those 4 only Uncharted 2 is the one I want most. But my list of games I want to try contains a lot of multi-platform games and those I usually buy for the 360 because they are usually cheaper on ebay for the xbox than the PS3....from what I've seen. On top of that Halo: Reach will be here by the end of the week and I can't see myself playing anything else for at least a month or so. After that comes Kinect which I will more than likely get at launch because my fiance just moved in and if I want to game I have to either get her involved or sneak in game time when she isn't home.
It boils down to personal preference, which was really my point...some people look at MS's lineup and think there is nothing to get excited about, others still like what MS has to offer more than Sony.
How can you not have a single trophy for LBP, you get like a trophy for literally turning on the game (exaggeration but it's pretty close), did you play it for like 5 mins?
It's rather strange you'd buy a console to not play anything on it. I'd probably have more time clocked on a 360 if I had one. Maybe you don't own one and have an account on your friend's?
Metfanant
09-08-2010, 22:31
While I'm non to worried about this generaiton,i think its to far in, if you extend it to launch of a new console, MS really need to have some studios to launch a new console.
The majority of launch titles for any new console comes from within their own development teams.
At the moment i think MS would struggle to launch a new console with a decent software launch.
That, more than anything is why I think MS isnt launching anythign anytime soon.
I also wonder if with the latest round of "replacements" and the E & D department at MS, if someone hasnt finally woken up and smelled the roses, and relaised they might neeed to start pulling finger in temrs of rebuilding their software studios if they want a next-gen console launch.
i hope someone at MS wakes up and recognizes the problem...
GotMilk?
09-08-2010, 22:34
I don't think that widget is updated...played Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Little Big Planet, Resistance, MGS4 and God of War III.
Here is my actual list of trophies:
http://us.playstation.com/publictrophy/index.htm?onlinename=Over30gamernj
EDIT: Removed the non-working widget from my signature
The ones I want to try but haven't are: Infamous, Killzone 2, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain. Out of those 4 only Uncharted 2 is the one I want most. But my list of games I want to try contains a lot of multi-platform games and those I usually buy for the 360 because they are usually cheaper on ebay for the xbox than the PS3....from what I've seen. On top of that Halo: Reach will be here by the end of the week and I can't see myself playing anything else for at least a month or so. After that comes Kinect which I will more than likely get at launch because my fiance just moved in and if I want to game I have to either get her involved or sneak in game time when she isn't home.
It boils down to personal preference, which was really my point...some people look at MS's lineup and think there is nothing to get excited about, others still like what MS has to offer more than Sony.
i would say go from Uncharted 2 then Infamous Heavy rain and Killzone 2.
i have a very mixed feeling about KZ2. it was extremely fun at one point and it became extremely frustrating.
and btw. everyone has their own preferences. look at labwarrior's ability to enjoy crappy game as long as its Xbox exclusive.
I was arguing about the general opinion of exclusive games represented by reviews. In the end, thats what the reviews are for. high score reviews are more likely to be enjoyable to more people.
While I'm non to worried about this generaiton,i think its to far in, if you extend it to launch of a new console, MS really need to have some studios to launch a new console.
The majority of launch titles for any new console comes from within their own development teams.
At the moment i think MS would struggle to launch a new console with a decent software launch.
That, more than anything is why I think MS isnt launching anythign anytime soon.
I also wonder if with the latest round of "replacements" and the E & D department at MS, if someone hasnt finally woken up and smelled the roses, and relaised they might neeed to start pulling finger in temrs of rebuilding their software studios if they want a next-gen console launch.
I was going to make this point, but when it comes to a new console there always seems to be plenty of devs happy to make a game for a new system. They don't even have to be outright exclusive, since by definition a launch title for a new console is exclusive by default, until a competing system launches at any rate (PC /console 'exclusives' notwithstanding). I think Microsoft could do okay for exclusives to launch a new console, even just with third-party devs, but how many launch titles and how long this situation would last if the status quo of MS internal developers continues is debatable, and potentially quite concerning, for them at least.
I was going to make this point, but when it comes to a new console there always seems to be plenty of devs happy to make a game for a new system. They don't even have to be outright exclusive, since by definition a launch title for a new console is exclusive by default, until a competing system launches at any rate (PC /console 'exclusives' notwithstanding). I think Microsoft could do okay for exclusives to launch a new console, even just with third-party devs, but how many launch titles and how long this situation would last if the status quo of MS internal developers continues is debatable, and potentially quite concerning, for them at least.
Problem is, the gap per sya isnt goign to come across as revolutionary.
I mean GRAW PS2 vs GRAW Xbox 360 was a huge gap.
But cant see ,say Rainbow Six Vegas whatever being a whole hell of a lot different in gameplay between say a Ps3 verison and the Next xbox.
Sure it wil proably have better graphics set, up there with a PC build of the game, but will it drive people to it?
Last gen, Ms was ina postion to leverage PC devlopement to its advantage because Sony didnt have anythign like it.
Now, a PS3 game can be protyped on PC just as eaisly as a 360 game can be in terms of shader effects etc.
And a lot of those pC devlopers do devlopp on the PS3, where they never touched the PS2.
In short, last time we got the likes of Oblviion for the 360. This time I think the next-gen elder scrolls Xbox will launch right alongside a PS3 verison.
Maybe. The next-generation is totally new territory I'd say, and I wouldn't want to be the first one to jump headlong into that minefield. It makes Microsoft's gamble on Kinect seem even more make or break if they are putting as much of their weight behind it as they seem to be doing - where next if it doesn't pan out? If it does of course they can relax in the knowledge that they probably won't need to replace the system for years to come, but that's a big gamble in my book.
Maybe. The next-generation is totally new territory I'd say, and I wouldn't want to be the first one to jump headlong into that minefield. It makes Microsoft's gamble on Kinect seem even more make or break if they are putting as much of their weight behind it as they seem to be doing - where next if it doesn't pan out? If it does of course they can relax in the knowledge that they probably won't need to replace the system for years to come, but that's a big gamble in my book.
One can make an argument that both Kinect and Move are designed to give both Microsoft and Sony time to truly think over what a next-generation machine will mean. Because right now I am struggling to even see the need for one.
maltrophstitan
09-09-2010, 01:36
what was the jump from xbox to xbox 360 besides the increase in visuals?
Xbox Live might have been the biggest step from last gen to this gen.
MS said their goal with the Xbox brand was to take over the living room. so what steps are still needed for that to happen?
Maybe were seeing the beginning of it with espn3 and the vision for IPTV, where an Xbox can replace a cable box.
MS has also shown its firm interest in moving to the mobile space and offering "Live" through mobile phones.
It looks like its less about the hardware and more about what the software can bring to the next gen.
Two4DaMoney
09-09-2010, 01:38
what was the jump from xbox to xbox 360 besides the increase in visuals?
Xbox Live might have been the biggest step from last gen to this gen.
MS said their goal with the Xbox brand was to take over the living room. so what steps are still needed for that to happen?
Maybe were seeing the beginning of it with espn3 and the vision for IPTV, where an Xbox can replace a cable box.
blu ray.
GotMilk?
09-09-2010, 02:38
Maybe were seeing the beginning of it with espn3 and the vision for IPTV, where an Xbox can replace a cable box.
already happening with Hulu Plus (guessing it will be on Xbox Live later)
and MLB is already on PS3.
Bitbydeath
09-09-2010, 02:40
blu ray.
Definetly, i don't remember the last time i bought a DVD must have been at least 3 years ago.
what was the jump from xbox to xbox 360 besides the increase in visuals?
Xbox Live might have been the biggest step from last gen to this gen.
MS said their goal with the Xbox brand was to take over the living room. so what steps are still needed for that to happen?
Maybe were seeing the beginning of it with espn3 and the vision for IPTV, where an Xbox can replace a cable box.
MS has also shown its firm interest in moving to the mobile space and offering "Live" through mobile phones.
It looks like its less about the hardware and more about what the software can bring to the next gen.
technically it already can. skyplayer?
Definetly, i don't remember the last time i bought a DVD must have been at least 3 years ago.
Me to, but it has nothing to do with Blu-ray.
maltrophstitan
09-09-2010, 03:37
what I was getting at guys was that you can see the first steps to where MS is going next generation with Live as a service, seeing as how impactfull it has been this generation.
Things like Hulu plus, ESPN3, Netflix, Zune Marketplace are a stepping stone to what MS wants to accomplish for next generation.
You don't have to look at the hardware anymore to tell when the next generation should start, I'm betting MS doesnt really care what the hardware will be knowing that it will at least compete with whatever Sony has next gen.
MS is going to look at its software as a deciding factor as to when the next xbox should come out.
Its when Live can be taken even further and be even more integrated to you as a user as the lead off for when the next xbox will come out.
Closing off the press conference, Sensui hinted at more announcements to come. He and his colleague Phil Spencer will be giving the Tokyo Game Show keynote on the 16th. Sensui said to expect additional announcements then.
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/09/09/ms_media_briefing/
We can only hope.
Bitbydeath
09-09-2010, 03:57
Me to, but it has nothing to do with Blu-ray.
Arrgh Matey, tis a pirates life for thee
Arrgh Matey, tis a pirates life for thee
Ironically its mostly TV.
There is no other way I can watch sons of anarachy.
And I would pay to too.
radgamer420
09-09-2010, 05:48
Ironically its mostly TV.
There is no other way I can watch sons of anarachy.
And I would pay to too.
I love Sons of Anarchy. The new season just started last night here in the US.
http://www.ps3youtube.com/?go=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHQMvhcj0EI
I love Sons of Anarchy. The new season just started last night here in the US.
http://www.ps3youtube.com/?go=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHQMvhcj0EI
Oh I know, have watched, blown away by the ending.
Ironically its mostly TV.
There is no other way I can watch sons of anarachy.
And I would pay to too.
I watch it but i have a Foxtel subscription, one of the best Tv series there are imo...
and will not last u a year. will take alot of time?? yes. will cause players to not buy games over a year??? no.
few of my friends still play MW2. but they still buy other games... just because they are playing that game over a year doesnt mean they wont buy other games. they like to keep MW2 and place once a week or so. but usually, they play other games.
i said "few" cause most of my friends sold MW2 by march-April.
Proof??? just look at "players online" after game is released for couple months.
compare that to the first month's average number of players. wayyyyy lower. the effect does not last a year.
and i think u have my argument confused. i am simply saying the effect is not really that great after a year. but couple months after those games are released??? the game sales may suffer.Well again you appear to not be reading my post correctly - I never said that people wouldn't buy other games I said that because of the triumvirate of GT5, H:R and CoD:BO, sales for many titles in 2011 will be lower than expected. I mean christ, we're talking about the biggest selling exclusive franchises on the Playstation and Xbox, in addition to the best selling multi-plat gaming franchise for both platforms all releasing at the same time.
Expect game launches to be pushed back in light of this especially if they involve shooting or driving.
Two4DaMoney
09-09-2010, 11:17
Well again you appear to not be reading my post correctly - I never said that people wouldn't buy other games I said that because of the triumvirate of GT5, H:R and CoD:BO, sales for many titles in 2011 will be lower than expected. I mean christ, we're talking about the biggest selling exclusive franchises on the Playstation and Xbox, in addition to the best selling multi-plat gaming franchise for both platforms all releasing at the same time.
Expect game launches to be pushed back in light of this especially if they involve shooting or driving.
The battle between Reach and Black OPs will be interesting. edit: Modern Warfare 2(360) sold more than halo 3 and at a faster rate(under a year) and Black OPs pre-order sales are higher than Modern Warfare 2. MS has a 4 headed monster on their hands. They are going to have to find a way to promote Halo:Reach, COD:BO(they payed for exclusive promotion), Fable 3 and Kinect. It's too bad Fable 3 doesn't support Kinect during launch because they could used that to help Kinect a bit.
Sony has to worry about GT5, LBP 2 and Move. They are likely going to market LBP 2 with Move. I doubt Sony will push back Motorstorm 3 and Killzone 3 from their Feb release date.
overthirtygamernj
09-09-2010, 14:09
How can you not have a single trophy for LBP, you get like a trophy for literally turning on the game (exaggeration but it's pretty close), did you play it for like 5 mins? It's rather strange you'd buy a console to not play anything on it. I'd probably have more time clocked on a 360 if I had one. Maybe you don't own one and have an account on your friend's?
I have the 80GB non-backwards compatible one. Got it through the Dell/Sony Credit card deal for $216 shipped. As you said about LBP. I turned it on, played through the first level and just really haven't felt compelled to go back and play it again. I know I need to give the game more time, just haven't felt that urge to do it. MGS4 was the same for me, I played through the first level or two and just didn't enjoy the game all that much. Uncharted and God of War were both amazing games though and as I've said, there are other exclusive PS3 games I want to try but am waiting until I can get them used for $20 because I'm saving for a wedding right now.
As for business strategy, I don't think either company is in a rush to put out a new console. I think they both took a bath financially in this generation of the console wars. I am sure they are all in the design and planning phases but when it boils down to it the economy still hasn't fully recovered and they would be out of their minds to put another system out. As a consumer, would I like to see a new system soon? Sure. But from a financial standpoint I don't think Sony or Microsoft are ready to move on just yet.
MS still has RARE---not that they impress me too much. Turn 10 to churn out a quality racing title. Still have their stable of shooters in Gears and the Halo franchises---even if Bungie aren't doing it any more. But, as long as the get the big multiplatform games companies to release games like Madden and Call of Duty for a new system it will still sell just fine once they get around to it. Its not like either system really launched this generation with a plethora of quality first party titles right off the bat.
Strung Out
09-09-2010, 14:41
Just an over-all opinion on the situation:
We don't like it, however it could quite well be extremely profitable for MS to just milk a small few exclusive's and rely on 3rd party titles. To me it seems like they are moving towards a position where they do/invest very little and generate a ton of money.
They make obscene money on every copy of Madden/COD/GTA etc sold.
They make obscene money on DLC.
They make obscene money for providing a solid social aspect of online play.
The more people they draw into the 360 brand, the less games they need to actually sell. If they can get 60 million casuals to sign up and try live and let their subs auto-renew... MS is going to be happy.
Most casuals will be more than happy with a Halo/COD/Madden/Forza/GTA ontop of their kinect shovelware.
They are moving towards something that has very limited investment/risk, with huge profit margins. Maintaining AAA studio's while often profitable is a lot of work, investment and risk. Halo is big money, I'm sure they recognize that... but there is only so much room for 5 million+ sellers on the market. You can't get those returns on every exclusive, so why try to make 20 different games...
It's bad from a gamer's point of view, however it seems fairly solid from a casual/business standpoint.
Having said that even if Sony decide's this is the way to go(they really seem like they try to support us now)...somebody will always want OUR money. We created the gaming industry, we spend a lot of money, someone will always step up and want to sell games to us.
overthirtygamernj
09-09-2010, 15:09
They are basically subsidizing their own studios. Multiplatform is the way to go if companies want to make money. Imagine if Halo were a multiplatform game....or, God of War. I've said it from the beginning of this generation that we were going to see less and less true exclusive and more and more timed exclusives. MS subsidized its own studios and weren't making profit off of it so they've chosen to subsidize less studios. Lets face it, it is a business and the companies have to make business decisions and stop taking huge losses in the video game entertainment areas or they're eventually going to decide to say F it and fold up shop if they're not making money off the venture.
Galvanise_
09-09-2010, 15:37
I've said it from the beginning of this generation that we were going to see less and less true exclusive and more and more timed exclusives..
Unless the money offered is really large, I don't forsee this happening too much at all. Take Bioshock for example. It would have done better overall if both the PS3 and the 360 version launched at the same time. Because of Bioshock 1's late PS3 release it didn't sell well on the PS3 and nor did its sequel.
The only country where this trend is bucked is Japan, and that's mainly because the PS3 has a much larger installed base.
I forsee a lot more developers (if they have the future of their franchise in mind) going MP a lot more from day one.
GotMilk?
09-09-2010, 16:13
Well again you appear to not be reading my post correctly - I never said that people wouldn't buy other games I said that because of the triumvirate of GT5, H:R and CoD:BO, sales for many titles in 2011 will be lower than expected. I mean christ, we're talking about the biggest selling exclusive franchises on the Playstation and Xbox, in addition to the best selling multi-plat gaming franchise for both platforms all releasing at the same time.
Expect game launches to be pushed back in light of this especially if they involve shooting or driving.
Pushed back over a year???
i dont think u r reading my argument either. i never disagreed with u that other game sales will be affected. i disagreed u for how LONG.
u said other games sales will for suffer for 12 months. and i explained why that cant be true.
radgamer420
09-09-2010, 19:12
I've said it from the beginning of this generation that we were going to see less and less true exclusive and more and more timed exclusives.
Agreed. And thats what gives Sony a huge advantage. Because "true exclusives" are what differentiates one console from another. Sony has an army of first party developers who will guarantee that their Playstation platform will continue to have a steady flow of exclusives that wont be able to be played on any other platform while still getting all these multiplatform games that the Xbox platform will get.
GotMilk?
09-09-2010, 20:09
They are basically subsidizing their own studios. Multiplatform is the way to go if companies want to make money. Imagine if Halo were a multiplatform game....or, God of War. I've said it from the beginning of this generation that we were going to see less and less true exclusive and more and more timed exclusives. MS subsidized its own studios and weren't making profit off of it so they've chosen to subsidize less studios. Lets face it, it is a business and the companies have to make business decisions and stop taking huge losses in the video game entertainment areas or they're eventually going to decide to say F it and fold up shop if they're not making money off the venture.
yes and no.... it is publishers that makes money from selling games. Developers are only paid by wages and maybe bonus depending on how well the game sells.
Which means that publishers make money for going multiplat.
If Sony decides to buy a dev and pay same wages as multiplat publisher, the developer is basically being paid the same unless u r talking about an independent developer.
Developers get only affected indirectly by going multi or exclusives, and there are many factors that decides their wages.
what u are saying only makes sense if 3rd party publisher is making first party games like Mass Effect 2.
but it does not apply if the publishers are first party, like sony and MS.
This is why Sony cant afford to make crappy exclusives.... it wont sell as well and prob wont cover the cost of development.
and devs will be happy as long as they are paid their fair wages + bonuses no matter they are mutli or exclusives.
this is why Sony can keep pumping out exclusives. and will continue to to so in the future.
Pushed back over a year???
i dont think u r reading my argument either. i never disagreed with u that other game sales will be affected. i disagreed u for how LONG.
u said other games sales will for suffer for 12 months. and i explained why that cant be true.I can see that you are new to the forums so I will cut you some slack in your persistent inability to read posts, but when making a statement in reference to something I or someone else has said, back it up with an actual quote.
I have not mentioned anywhere in this thread or elsewhere that titles will be pushed back 'over a year'. That could be a possibility but I never mentioned or alluded to it.
Fact is, over the coming 12 months (Sep 2010 - Sep 2011) most people will either be too tied up with CoD:BO, H:R and GT5 to bother with other titles. Yes other titles like Gears of War 3 and Killzone 3 will still sell, but I haven't got high hopes for them selling gangbusters/beating previous iteration sales targets. Other titles (good and bad) will face a similair situation - especially in light of growing economic uncertainty in many markets.