View Full Version : NGP Is “Dead On Arrival” – Neil Young
I thought we needed a doom and gloom thread about the NGP. You are welcome. :p
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/06/neil-young-iphone.jpg
iPhone dev speaks out on new portables.
ngmoco boss Neil Young has spoken to Industry Gamers at this year’s GDC, saying Sony’s successor to the NGP is “Dead on Arrival”, leaving no doubt as to where his feelings currently sit.
In what amounts to a precursor to the full interview, the report on IG (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/sonys-ngp-dead-on-arrival-and-3ds-gimmicky-says-neil-young/) shows what the man behind some of the biggest iPhone games (http://www.ngmoco.com/games.php) thinks of Sony’s strategy, especially with regards to pricing. “I think they are hurt; I think they’re clearly hurt,” he said of the ‘traditional’ portable consoles.
“I think PSP is done and the new [NGP] is dead on arrival. It’s really difficult to compete with an App Store that has hundreds of thousands of applications and a wide range of options where the average price paid is around $1.20 and there are tens, if not hundreds of thousands of free applications that are really high quality.”
“So I just don’t think Sony’s going to be able to compete with that.”
When asked whether he thought the ‘PS3 quality experience’ would offset any pricing issues, Young was equally determined. “It’s not a PS3 quality experience,” he replied. “And in terms of getting broad adoption, having great processing power is not necessarily a prerequisite for great adoption in the marketplace. You need a range of things and what I think the iPod Touch and iPhone have been able to do is offer people swiss army knife type functionality for a device that plays games really well.”
“It’s not like it’s crap at playing games,” he says of Apple’s device. “It’s pretty good at playing games and it can do a whole bunch of other things as well.”
It’s worth pointing out that Mr Young has a strong interest in the iPhone range, but those are strong words.
Source (http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2011/03/02/ngp-is-dead-on-arrival-neil-young/)
MrFenwick
03-02-2011, 16:03
So a Apple lover hates Sony. How original.
YoungMullah88
03-02-2011, 16:08
good for him...
He raises some fair point, but he's also taking a fairly narrow look at the situation.
Kauldron
03-02-2011, 16:44
I'm not sure who Neil Young is but Sony does face some tough challenges with the NGP.
1. Price is a big factor.
2. What demographic are they targeting? Nintendo has the 3D gimmick which will probably be successful like the Wii's motion gimmick. The younger audience will definitly flock to that side. That is Nintendo's strongest market. If Sony is targeting the PS3 demographic then with the NGP not being a phone as well will hurt it's sales. Not many people are going to carry around more than one device. If they had made the NGP as a phone as well then their chances of success would have been greatly improved.
3. Sony does look to have great third party support so this is a plus for them.
The NGP will have real games as well as App games and most people would prefer tactile controls over touch screens. This is definitly a grey situation. If the NGP is a phone then it is in direct competition with smartphones, if it is not a phone then it competes with 3DS. I'm not sure how this guy came to his decision but it is not a cut and dry scenario.
There are way too many variables at the moment to predict an outcome.
Meh, I hate all these Apple whores who think now that some Angry Birds has been downloaded 50 million times, suddenly all the millions and millions of people who play portables regularly have turned into casual mini-game fans who've jumped on board iPhone/Pad/Android gaming and don't appreciate bigger, more polished & fulfilling games anymore. The only game I've played on smartphones that I haven't forgotten in 5 minutes after trying it out and which has offered me hours and hours worth of game time even in long sessions is Game Dev Story. The rest I've pretty much tried out once or max twice, then either deleted or they are just sitting on my Galaxy S's memory.
1. Price is a big factor.
It is, but even a relatively big sum of money can be not-that-big-of-a-cost if they market it right and make it seem like it offers enough bang for your buck (the right games @ launch + good marketing of all of its plentiful features). All Apple's overpriced crap does this. They really offer nothing over their competitors, yet with the right kind of marketing they've made their products so tempting that quite a lot of Apple fans are fooled into buying slightly improved versions of them annually, even if their previous might still work perfectly well.
A mega-success at 299$ isn't too impossible. Besides, with the 3G-stuff, they might team up with operators and offer a NGP + 3G connection deal for, like, 50$ + some monthly fee for a given time, which might be a deal-breaker for some.
Thorzilla
03-02-2011, 17:37
Probably said this to get a few hits on their site so people would look at their crappy games. Hey, any advertising is good.
Sieghardt
03-02-2011, 18:15
oh lol, Gameloft-but-worse ripoff company think their awful $1 games are more desirable than actual games.
Who wants peace walker when you can have iTouch:Pets a game that sounds like a beastiality sim
nofear01
03-02-2011, 18:36
Mark my words - in 12 months we will be readon about the lacklustre sales of the NGP and how it can't compete. At least in EU and USA at least.
unicron7
03-02-2011, 18:44
I hate casual gamers, games, and what they've done to the industry. I like my portable games to be high quality, and fun. I don't get that from the iphone. Tons and tons of okay games, but nothing extraordinary. This guy is a fool, and is just spouting PR BS.
As far as his opinion is concerned, here is my stance:
Not a single f*ck was given this day.
I wonder if he'll still be saying that when they're pumping out touch based mini games for the NGP.
Staticneuron
03-02-2011, 19:00
What some Japanese developers think of NGP/PSP2
Hiroyuki Kobayashi (Capcom)
Kobayashi believes NGP will change the position of portable systems. He's interested in particular in the systems's screen quality and dual side touch. The screen in particular is beautiful and can be seen clearly from all sides. In terms of price, he expects around ¥29,800.
Akari Uchida (Konami, Love Plus director)
With the appearance of NGP, Uchida believes online games could become even more casual. Users will be able to be attached to games and online communities from all locations.
All games will, like with MMORPGs, allow players to communicate while they play. This makes him excited, as it's something that would work well with the kinds of games that he makes.
Uchida joked that if he were to make an NGP game it would be a game where you use the dual touch panels to grab doors.
He expects a ¥24,980 price point.
Yousuke Hayashi (Tecmo Koei/Team Ninja)
He's interested in the system's specs and online environment.
Until now, they've developed games under the idea that people differentiate between games that are played in the home and on the go. However, in the future, you could be able to continue playing one game on both NGP and PS3.
He'd personally buy the system whatever the price, but as a developer he wants the price to be affordable enough that many players can buy it
Katsuhiro Harada (Namco Bandai, Tekken producer)
He believes that the NGP will be included in HD multiplatform title plans from now on -- not just being multiplatform, but also in connectivity.
Regarding what he would like to make, he has to respond "fighting game," but he'd also like to make a Genpei Toma Den (this is an old Namco arcade title) that uses the system's rear touch panel.
Regarding price, he'd like ¥29,800, but he expects ¥34,800.
Jiro Ishii (Level-5, Time Travelers director)
Ishii said he's personally excited about the "grab" style control possibilities offered by having touch panels on both sides of the system. He said that using the system's 3G and other network features, he'd like to make an adventure game that is downloadable cheaply on a weekly basis in similar fashion to renting a video.
He believes that the system could accelerate the movement away from consoles and thinks things could get interesting if the NGP is accepted overseas in such a way. On price, his hope is that it comes out for around ¥25,000.
Yoshinori Kitase (Square Enix)
He's paying attention to the system's 3G capability, as he feels great potential from the ability to connect to the internet all the time. He wants to make an RPG that utilizes the system's specs fully -- something that's online compatible and uses the system's 3G. On price, he said that he'd buy it even it were expensive, but with considerations for sales, he hopes it will cost less than PS3.
Satoshi Sakai (Sega, Phantasy Star producer)
He's watching the system's Wi-Fi and 3G functionality, as he believes a permanent connection could expand the possibilities for online games. He's also excited for the dual touch panels.
Sakai is concerned about rising production costs on the NGP and believes that how to recoup the costs will be a major talking point. Because of his, he thinks that downloadable games could increase.
If he were to make a game, he said he'd want it to be a multiplayer game with online features.
On price, ¥25,000 would be best, but he believes ¥30,000 would be shocking enough.
Akihiro Suzuki (Tecmo Koei)
He's excited about the system's dual sided touch and can't wait to see how the rear touch is incorporated into gameplay. He also believes the constant connection provided by 3G will be a big thing.
When making NGP software, he personally believes there are two points: using dual sided touch inputs, and using things like wireless functionality and GPS.
He hopes the price will be just as surprising as the system's specs were.
Suda 51 (Grasshopper Manufacture)
The point of note for the system is its network connectivity. Also among the areas he's watching out for are the system's spread in overseas markets, and its compatibility with the Unreal Engine.
If he were to make a game, he'd like to make a punk themed network game.
He's hoping for a price point of below ¥30,000.
Jun Takeuchi (Capcom)
The feeling upon actually getting his hands on the system was overwhelmingly "game system." With the feel of holding the system, the feel of the analogue stick controls, and the ease of view for the screen, he felt it was designed to be a complete game system.
A price point of under ¥30,000 would have a great impact, he believes.
Toshihiro Nagoshi (Sega, Yakuza series)
He's looking at all areas of the system. The system feels like it has good balance and delivers much of what one would want from a new game playing device. He believes it's possible that by building up community via 3G and other wireless functionality, the system could change the game industry.
Work for developers will probably increase, he said, but if it heats up the market, it's work with value.
Yoshifumi Hashimoto (Marvelous Entertainment, Harvest Moon)
Said he wants to make a number of sequels, but would also like to try out completely new titles, including a school love game, games with extreme violence, and slow life games.
Akihiro Hino (Level-5)
The big point of the system is its network functionality, Hino believes. The NGP will make buying games via the internet a more mainstream activity. On the gameplay front, there could be the possibility of all games needing to have internet compatibility.
On price, he expects ¥29,800, but hopes that Sony will keep the 3DS in mind and release the system in the lower ¥20,000 range.
Makoto Yoshizumi (Namco Bandai, Tales series)
The top three features that have his interest are: wireless, connectivity with PS3, and more robust DLC. He'd like to make content that uses these features -- in fact, he feels that there's no meaning if you don't use those features.
On price, he believes that if the system betrays your expectations in a good way, it could cause a huge movement.
Hiroshi Maruyama (CyberConnect2)
For CC2, the big point is the high specifications. He's very happy that they'll be able to use the knowhow they've gained from working with HD consoles. If CC2 were to make NGP software, they'd want to make something that would surprise players visually.
On price, he wants ¥29,800, but said it could end up being ¥39,800. Whatever the price, he's going to buy it.
Noritaka Funamizu (Crafts & Meister)
He views NGP first as a game machine. The OLED display is extremely beautiful. He'd like to use that and the analogue sticks to create a base game and also add networking ideas on top of that. He's hoping to try out a type of game that's different from Wii's Earth Seeker.
On price, he expects ¥39,800.
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/03/02/developer_ngp_commentary/
I would rather trust these guys. Interest shown by these devs already commits to the idea that getting the NGP will be a good move.
I'm not sure who Neil Young
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Young
his music rocks
The monster is coming (Apple). Sony need to re-act fast and better than they have achieved before (what we know of the NGP so far is not good enough). A new angle must be found for survival.
For me they must grow their Worldwide Studios - integrate the games software into their hardware and create new must have franchises to survive. Third-parties will not help them. They need their own Pokemon's, Mario's, Zelda's...
If not - they lose. And Apple will have another monster victory over the company that should have been the Japanese Apple...it is time to smell the blood and carnage approaching Sony in the portable market...and it is coming fast.
manutdfan
03-02-2011, 22:01
I wonder if he'll write a song about what he said.
Bitbydeath
03-02-2011, 22:16
I read this on PSU, it's just a fanboy rant.
At one point he bags out NGP saying its stands no chance because of the iPhone but then he goes on about how great the 3DS is...
They don't come anymore obvious than that.
Staticneuron
03-02-2011, 23:35
The monster is coming (Apple). Sony need to re-act fast and better than they have achieved before (what we know of the NGP so far is not good enough). A new angle must be found for survival.
For me they must grow their Worldwide Studios - integrate the games software into their hardware and create new must have franchises to survive. Third-parties will not help them. They need their own Pokemon's, Mario's, Zelda's...
If not - they lose. And Apple will have another monster victory over the company that should have been the Japanese Apple...it is time to smell the blood and carnage approaching Sony in the portable market...and it is coming fast.
Monster is coming? Sony will lose?
What are you talking about. The markets are already defined. Apple made a play an took a bite out of the casual market, which was primarily the domain of Nintendo, not Sony.
When looking at the Specs and the numbers ahead, the same thing is going to play out. There will be casuals flocking to the nintendo and apple offerings (which isn't even the main direction of apple mind you) and dedicated gamers opting for the handheld offerings of Sony and Nintendo. So the Landscape probably will never be between Sony and Apple. At times even Nintendo is not in the same target demographic.
Dedicated gamers prefer precise controls and buttons. Dedicated gamers follow specific franchises and love high quality entries, the type of people playing angry birds may not overlap with the dedicated.
Sub-stance1
03-03-2011, 00:14
The good thing about NGP is that its dedicated to gaming.
I_Luv_2_Game
03-03-2011, 00:29
That statement by Neil Young is just laughable.. I bet Neil Young buys an NGP.. It is an fanboy rant.. There are Sony fans all around the world who state other wise about the NGP.. I think there's more than enough market share for all 3 companies to do well.. Just like with the PS3 all the Sony haters are going to come out from underneath there rocks to bash the NGP..
Ryunosuke
03-03-2011, 00:31
As long as Apple continues releasing a new iPhone/iPad every year or so it will never have a chance of replacing a dedicated gaming device.
No publisher/developer is going to spend the money it takes to make a full game like Mario, Uncharted, etc. for a device that may be replaced in less than a year. The iPad was released less than a year ago, the iPad 2 is set to be revealed today and there are already rumors that the iPad 3 will be revealed/released later this year.
I don't see it happening, Iphone is great for things like Angry Birds but you wouldn't play Killzone or Metal Gear Solid on it.
As long as Apple continues releasing a new iPhone/iPad every year or so it will never have a chance of replacing a dedicated gaming device.
No publisher/developer is going to spend the money it takes to make a full game like Mario, Uncharted, etc. for a device that may be replaced in less than a year. The iPad was released less than a year ago, the iPad 2 is set to be revealed today and there are already rumors that the iPad 3 will be revealed/released later this year.
I just feel sorry for the people that buy into all that rubbish.
AaronSOLDIER
03-03-2011, 02:09
It will be if Sony does what they did with PSP and just releases hand me downs of PS3 games.
Sony have already lost out to Apple once before with the ipod there was once a time all throught the 80's and 90's all hand held music devices were called "walkman "
Suzano-O
03-04-2011, 06:09
The monster is coming (Apple). Sony need to re-act fast and better than they have achieved before (what we know of the NGP so far is not good enough). A new angle must be found for survival.
For me they must grow their Worldwide Studios - integrate the games software into their hardware and create new must have franchises to survive. Third-parties will not help them. They need their own Pokemon's, Mario's, Zelda's...
If not - they lose. And Apple will have another monster victory over the company that should have been the Japanese Apple...it is time to smell the blood and carnage approaching Sony in the portable market...and it is coming fast.
ITT, everyone who didn't buy a PSP bought an iPhone for all of their gaming needs instead...
Sony have already lost out to Apple once before with the ipod there was once a time all throught the 80's and 90's all hand held music devices were called "walkman "
That wasn't Apple winning against Sony...
That was mp3 players winning against portable radios/cassette players, which was on the heels of their crushing defeat at the hands of portable CD players...
Use the edit or multi-quote option instead of double posting. -Ixion
Dave-The-Rave
03-04-2011, 09:08
Guy i've never heard of hates PSP2? Should I care?.....No.
pitofskulls
03-04-2011, 09:41
I, myself, don't mind carrying around a couple of devices. I find smartphones hard to play games on since they don't have thumbsticks like the NGP and the new Xperia Play aka Playstation Phone will have. I have an ipod and the only thing i play on it is sudoku and use it to view the weather and some news related apps and listen to music. i would seriously buy the ngp and even the playstation phone as well. my wife has the samsung smartphone that runs android and it is pretty cool. i find the screen a bit too small.
and another thing, i hate angry birds. too boring. i don't see what all the hype is about slingshotting birds to kill these other things that i forget the name of. see? that's how much i liked that game. i don't even remember what you are killing. oh well. don't play it anyway.
Vulgotha
03-04-2011, 09:51
oh lol, Gameloft-but-worse ripoff company think their awful $1 games are more desirable than actual games.
Who wants peace walker when you can have iTouch:Pets a game that sounds like a beastiality sim
I wish I could convey to you just how amusing I found this.
+Rep
Meh, I hate all these Apple whores who think now that some Angry Birds has been downloaded 50 million times, suddenly all the millions and millions of people who play portables regularly have turned into casual mini-game fans who've jumped on board iPhone/Pad/Android gaming and don't appreciate bigger, more polished & fulfilling games anymore. The only game I've played on smartphones that I haven't forgotten in 5 minutes after trying it out and which has offered me hours and hours worth of game time even in long sessions is Game Dev Story. The rest I've pretty much tried out once or max twice, then either deleted or they are just sitting on my Galaxy S's memory.
It is, but even a relatively big sum of money can be not-that-big-of-a-cost if they market it right and make it seem like it offers enough bang for your buck (the right games @ launch + good marketing of all of its plentiful features). All Apple's overpriced crap does this. They really offer nothing over their competitors, yet with the right kind of marketing they've made their products so tempting that quite a lot of Apple fans are fooled into buying slightly improved versions of them annually, even if their previous might still work perfectly well.
A mega-success at 299$ isn't too impossible. Besides, with the 3G-stuff, they might team up with operators and offer a NGP + 3G connection deal for, like, 50$ + some monthly fee for a given time, which might be a deal-breaker for some.
That is the not the case at all. The case is that the casual market is larger than the demographic the NGP is aiming at. No one thinks these casual games will replace these so-called hardcore games but what people believe is that these are actually true portable (i.e. bite-size games) for the masses. When you combine that with a swiss-army-knife product like the iTouch/iPhone/iPad you just get mega-success. Think of all the young audience getting Apple gear...they are more than happy with their i products. Anything else is a compromise to them.
You talk about excellent marketing. Since when was the last time Sony pulled this off? Only Nintendo and Apple have had superior marketing in these last six years although Microsoft have pulled themselves up as well lately.
And I would not hate on Apple. They create fantastic devices. Brilliant user-interface, one-stop online shop, stunning looking hardware and a brand to go with it. Kudos to them. If Sony cannot deal with that they need to figure out how to.
I read this on PSU, it's just a fanboy rant.
At one point he bags out NGP saying its stands no chance because of the iPhone but then he goes on about how great the 3DS is...
They don't come anymore obvious than that.
No but if you actually read what he says he does talk about the saving grace with the 3DS i.e. the software Nintendo can churn out which is what people bought the Nintendo DS for i.e. the Mario's, Zelda's, Pokemon's, etc etc. Nintendo is a software house first and foremost. The 3D 'gimmick' (if you want to call it that) will be a massive USP because it means photo/video in 3D, augmented reality in 3D and games in 3D. That is not something the NGP will match for years and Apple seem also not to be going down that route. By the time the NGP arrives Nintendo will have built up a healthy installed base - ready to drop the price into the mass market and launch Mario. So Nintendo can and probably will survive thanks to its software.
Monster is coming? Sony will lose?
What are you talking about. The markets are already defined. Apple made a play an took a bite out of the casual market, which was primarily the domain of Nintendo, not Sony.
When looking at the Specs and the numbers ahead, the same thing is going to play out. There will be casuals flocking to the nintendo and apple offerings (which isn't even the main direction of apple mind you) and dedicated gamers opting for the handheld offerings of Sony and Nintendo. So the Landscape probably will never be between Sony and Apple. At times even Nintendo is not in the same target demographic.
Dedicated gamers prefer precise controls and buttons. Dedicated gamers follow specific franchises and love high quality entries, the type of people playing angry birds may not overlap with the dedicated.
Yeah but what about if there are not enough dedicated games to buy the NGP? These dedicated gamers will have a PS3/360 already. I think 360 owners would rather invest in Windows 7 Phones with Xbox Live integration and PS3 owners in iPhones/iTouches/3DS rather than a product that seems to be offering similar thrills to a PS3.
It will be if Sony does what they did with PSP and just releases hand me downs of PS3 games.
Yup - and that is the worry.
ITT, everyone who didn't buy a PSP bought an iPhone for all of their gaming needs instead...
Yup - look at the collapse of PSP in NPD U.S. data. PSP did want to be that all-in-one entertainment unit (movies. music, games etc). But it never got there through its poor services, user-interface, not very portable form factor and terrible marketing. I do not see why Sony will change those failures. They will still lag on every variable mentioned above when compared to Apple.
At the moment it really looks like the NGP is an engineers dream...but the more I think of it the more I realize this thing is a confused product targeting a market I just cannot seem to identify (or targeting one that will be too small to bother investing in). Only in Japan could it see some success but that will not be good enough.
Sorry guys but that is the way I see it. I love the NGP as a product (no doubt it will be fantastic) but I think reality needs to be always thought about and I cannot really see this product market-wise gaining the success it needs.
Vulgotha
03-04-2011, 21:17
Your argument appears contingent upon the idea that there "won't be enough dedicated games" to make the NGP fly. You then draw your doom-gloom conclusions from this supposition which even you admit is merely a hypothetical.
We haven't received an extensive list yet of the games that will be supported day 1 or in the following months. We do know that game developers are foaming at the mouth over the features this thing has and that porting from the PS3-->NGP is easy- at the very least the development is expedited and very familiar to developers already creating games for the primary home consoles.
We have gotten optimistic appraisals from people "in the know" (Galv, on this forum, Deano on B3D)..
Developers are heaping praise on this device and presumably already making games for it. I fully agree with the opinions already stated regarding the target demographic- iphone\phone devices target every day casual users who need some entertainment, the 3DS is the same except its focus is more at the "core" casual gamer (as opposed to say, the business man on a flight or stuck in a meeting) while the PSP2\NGP is targeting the "typical" or 'hardcore' gamer with casual gaming as an optional capability via PSN (DL games) and its unique interface options.
Additionally unlike when the PSP launched, PSN has exploded. If this device contains deep interconnectivity with PSN (including online-gaming services etc) it may very well offer the most robust portable gaming solution this market has yet seen.
Compared to similar devices the NGP is priced very competitively if the latest figures are to be believed (250$). That's an absurdly good price for what you get, and frankly undercuts the competition severely (3DS, other mobile devices) and provides great incentive to pick this device up. We also have to recognize all of the features it will possess which will arguably be superior.. Netflix streaming will assuredly look better, it may have all of the movie\rental services that the PS3 has via PSN (not an unsafe assumption), Skype, superior web browsing (Sony isn't going to block flash content or force you download apps to bypass it) etc.
Consider the ergonomics of the device itself. It has two analog sticks (which is extremely appealing to SO many gamers) a touch screen, motion sensors, and a back track pad.. Even if not advertised directly, I can see this having a huge net positive effect through word of mouth\review sites\game channels.
All this to say, this doom and gloom talk isn't rooted in reality. People like to draw negative conclusions based on prior PSP failings (which, btw, was still a financial success) in spite of the fact that this is not necessarily a valid method of comparison. Additionally the NGP has already shown that it has been created with all of its predecessors criticisms in mind (analog sticks, game card media, ease of development, additional interface options, etc).
That wasn't Apple winning against Sony...
That was mp3 players winning against portable radios/cassette players, which was on the heels of their crushing defeat at the hands of portable CD players...
But then mp3 players won against mini-discs, which is another sony system. Thank god for that one, at least.
YoungMullah88
03-05-2011, 01:37
wow you took the time to address Wasib's everyday doom and gloom post? nice
Staticneuron
03-05-2011, 14:22
Yeah but what about if there are not enough dedicated games to buy the NGP? These dedicated gamers will have a PS3/360 already. I think 360 owners would rather invest in Windows 7 Phones with Xbox Live integration and PS3 owners in iPhones/iTouches/3DS rather than a product that seems to be offering similar thrills to a PS3.
Enough? THe PSP has it's own unique franchises and I am sure many of the 67 million installed PSP base would be looking to see what comes next.
If Sony don't price it competively or provide a substantial marketing campaign then the chances of it flopping greatly increase, especially outside Japan.
skinny_jr
03-05-2011, 17:00
Me, I think that the NGP will be the new toy to have when released!!!! Cuz of all the whistle and bells on it... And if it can be user friendly, we have a winner!!!!
NGP should be a run away success. As most portable gaming is actually done at home or round at a friends house or something like that, NGP should be a great choice for a handhold.
PSP didn't really have all that much online games, and if they did the gameplay suffered a bit with having only one analog stick. Least NGP as two analog sticks which has attracted more developers.
Now we've got games like Call of Duty coming to the NGP, with the best selling game this gen coming to the PSP and no doubt have a very similar online to something like blackops or MW2. I think a lot of players would prefer to skip the 3DS so they can buy a NGP roll round to their friends house and jam out on some CoD online. Or hell play some CoD online at school, even better!
NGP is like any gamers portable console dream, which is... easy online play on the go or on the toliet ;) Then you also got every player with a Mic which would be pretty handy for some online games.
Your argument appears contingent upon the idea that there "won't be enough dedicated games" to make the NGP fly. You then draw your doom-gloom conclusions from this supposition which even you admit is merely a hypothetical.
We haven't received an extensive list yet of the games that will be supported day 1 or in the following months. We do know that game developers are foaming at the mouth over the features this thing has and that porting from the PS3-->NGP is easy- at the very least the development is expedited and very familiar to developers already creating games for the primary home consoles.
We have gotten optimistic appraisals from people "in the know" (Galv, on this forum, Deano on B3D)..
Developers are heaping praise on this device and presumably already making games for it. I fully agree with the opinions already stated regarding the target demographic- iphone\phone devices target every day casual users who need some entertainment, the 3DS is the same except its focus is more at the "core" casual gamer (as opposed to say, the business man on a flight or stuck in a meeting) while the PSP2\NGP is targeting the "typical" or 'hardcore' gamer with casual gaming as an optional capability via PSN (DL games) and its unique interface options.
Additionally unlike when the PSP launched, PSN has exploded. If this device contains deep interconnectivity with PSN (including online-gaming services etc) it may very well offer the most robust portable gaming solution this market has yet seen.
Compared to similar devices the NGP is priced very competitively if the latest figures are to be believed (250$). That's an absurdly good price for what you get, and frankly undercuts the competition severely (3DS, other mobile devices) and provides great incentive to pick this device up. We also have to recognize all of the features it will possess which will arguably be superior.. Netflix streaming will assuredly look better, it may have all of the movie\rental services that the PS3 has via PSN (not an unsafe assumption), Skype, superior web browsing (Sony isn't going to block flash content or force you download apps to bypass it) etc.
Consider the ergonomics of the device itself. It has two analog sticks (which is extremely appealing to SO many gamers) a touch screen, motion sensors, and a back track pad.. Even if not advertised directly, I can see this having a huge net positive effect through word of mouth\review sites\game channels.
All this to say, this doom and gloom talk isn't rooted in reality. People like to draw negative conclusions based on prior PSP failings (which, btw, was still a financial success) in spite of the fact that this is not necessarily a valid method of comparison. Additionally the NGP has already shown that it has been created with all of its predecessors criticisms in mind (analog sticks, game card media, ease of development, additional interface options, etc).
Good points. Even if we assume there are enough hardcore players it will be hard to get them to buy another device after their iTouch, iPad and iPhone purchase. Furthermore why would these players buy a system offering similar experiences to their home consoles? Would they rather not have casual bite-size games on the go and then the full experience at home? I guess my issue is the type of gamers and games the NGP is trying to pull off...are they really conductive to a good portable gaming system? I guess we shall see.
To be honest optimistic appraisals are to be expected from the development community (they do not want to be seen slagging off Sony after-all and furthermore they love new tech...) and the same goes for forum members also.
I agree that one 'crucial' aspect that was missing from the NGP launch was the PSN 'eco-system'. But now things are even more competitive than that period! Plus do you really expect Sony to deliver better services, user-interface and eco-system than Apple have managed? Highly unlikely is the answer and those three latter mentioned points will determine it for the masses. To be honest I think Sony have a long way to go in this regard...I even doubt they will pull off the online/social component of the NGP well!
I agree it is unfair to draw negative conclusions on what went before the PSP and clearly the PSP has been a moderate success for Sony.
Enough? THe PSP has it's own unique franchises and I am sure many of the 67 million installed PSP base would be looking to see what comes next.
How many of those have switched away from the platform though and gone towards say iTouch, iPad, iPhone devices and/or the Nintendo DS line? Quite a few I would say. Also remember - the PSP launched at a time when the PlayStation brand was massively strong - this will not be the case anymore.
Personally I find it hard to see the where and how the NGP will fit into the every-day Western lifestyle of the Western market (demographics and lifestyles).
Staticneuron
03-06-2011, 04:57
How many of those have switched away from the platform though and gone towards say iTouch, iPad, iPhone devices and/or the Nintendo DS line? Quite a few I would say. Also remember - the PSP launched at a time when the PlayStation brand was massively strong - this will not be the case anymore.
Personally I find it hard to see the where and how the NGP will fit into the every-day Western lifestyle of the Western market (demographics and lifestyles).
And why would you say quite a few? What makes you think that people that prefer high budget games and buttons all of a sudden flocked to the ipod/itouch?
I think time will tell yet again that there is no bearing held between the handhelds and certainly home based platforms do not factor in the equation.The PSP has been averaging 10 million hardware units and 40 million+ software units a year. That includes last fiscal year, and this year is on track to produce the same numbers. It simply isn't true that interest has fallen through the floor and with the news of the NGP one would expet sales to tank, but let us see after the price drop if it still manages to hit the numbers.
I think the NGP will be fine and the only real target sony should be aiming for is the 3DS. The 3DS is the only other hardware unit that straddles the line between dedicated and a push for casual.
Bitbydeath
03-06-2011, 05:08
No but if you actually read what he says he does talk about the saving grace with the 3DS i.e. the software Nintendo can churn out which is what people bought the Nintendo DS for i.e. the Mario's, Zelda's, Pokemon's, etc etc. Nintendo is a software house first and foremost. The 3D 'gimmick' (if you want to call it that) will be a massive USP because it means photo/video in 3D, augmented reality in 3D and games in 3D. That is not something the NGP will match for years and Apple seem also not to be going down that route. By the time the NGP arrives Nintendo will have built up a healthy installed base - ready to drop the price into the mass market and launch Mario. So Nintendo can and probably will survive thanks to its software.
So only Nintendo has games to help sell its systems but Sony do not?
People give Mario too much credit, Wii Sports has been Nintendo's money maker this gen.
So only Nintendo has games to help sell its systems but Sony do not?
People give Mario too much credit, Wii Sports has been Nintendo's money maker this gen.I thought that Wii Sports was bundled with all new Wii consoles with the exception of Japan and parts of Asia, hence why it's 'sold' tens upon tens of millions of units?
The Wii's big money generators have been Wii Fit, Mario Kart, Wii Sports Resort and NSMB; all selling in excess of 20mn each. Crazy figures.
So only Nintendo has games to help sell its systems but Sony do not?
People give Mario too much credit, Wii Sports has been Nintendo's money maker this gen.
The "Wii" games have done a lot for Nintendo but you're crazy if you think Mario hasn't contributed. Mario Kart Wii? New Super Mario Bros. Wii? Both Super Mario Galaxy games? People give Mario games a lot of credit because the franchise continues to do big numbers especially this gen on DS and Wii and will likely be the case with the 3DS.
Though I agree with the point you're trying to make in that Sony has franchises that can sell systems, but to argue that by saying Mario hasn't contributed as much as WiiSports is a poor argument when the information is out there to show that Mario titles contribute a lot to their respective platforms. People aren't excited by Paper Mario, Mario Kart 3DS and now the new Mario Bros. coming to the 3DS for nothing, you know.
Thorzilla
03-09-2011, 01:10
The "Wii" games have done a lot for Nintendo but you're crazy if you think Mario hasn't contributed. Mario Kart Wii? New Super Mario Bros. Wii? Both Super Mario Galaxy games? People give Mario games a lot of credit because the franchise continues to do big numbers especially this gen on DS and Wii and will likely be the case with the 3DS.
Though I agree with the point you're trying to make in that Sony has franchises that can sell systems, but to argue that by saying Mario hasn't contributed as much as WiiSports is a poor argument when the information is out there to show that Mario titles contribute a lot to their respective platforms. People aren't excited by Paper Mario, Mario Kart 3DS and now the new Mario Bros. coming to the 3DS for nothing, you know.
I think I kinda know what he means. What he probably means is that casuals who bought the Wii, only had WiiSports and they told their casual friends about it as well. That, besides the fact that it comes bundled with every Wii :snicker
Yeah but what about if there are not enough dedicated games to buy the NGP? These dedicated gamers will have a PS3/360 already. I think 360 owners would rather invest in Windows 7 Phones with Xbox Live integration and PS3 owners in iPhones/iTouches/3DS rather than a product that seems to be offering similar thrills to a PS3.
huh? i have pretty much everything... and for a portable system.. id rather have buttons and sticks rather than my ip4 touch alone. am i a minority here given that ill spring for an NGP even though i have all the other consoles you mentioned. and hand-me-downs? i for one would be pretty excited about a KZ3 for portable, where i can take my online matches with me to my monthly doctors apt. then come back home with a few extra ranks, and continue back on the PS3... yeah i want new original titles... but damn, how awesome would it be to take ps3 games with you anywhere you went?
And why would you say quite a few? What makes you think that people that prefer high budget games and buttons all of a sudden flocked to the ipod/itouch?
I think time will tell yet again that there is no bearing held between the handhelds and certainly home based platforms do not factor in the equation.The PSP has been averaging 10 million hardware units and 40 million+ software units a year. That includes last fiscal year, and this year is on track to produce the same numbers. It simply isn't true that interest has fallen through the floor and with the news of the NGP one would expet sales to tank, but let us see after the price drop if it still manages to hit the numbers.
I think the NGP will be fine and the only real target sony should be aiming for is the 3DS. The 3DS is the only other hardware unit that straddles the line between dedicated and a push for casual.
I would say quite a few because the iTouch manages to give them a variety of additional features also i.e. more portable, more cool (the thing to have), snack-able games which they have found to be decent time killers for cheap prices, App Store...a variety of factors basically. For them going back to the NGP (Sony PSP) will be a difficult sell.
Just take Japan out of that 10 million equation for a second. In the Western market the PSP has been on a downward trend ever since the iTouch devices released. This year that will be down to 8 million perhaps (all territories included). A lot of that is down to the cool-factor but also the fact the iTouch does many other things well.
It depends on your expectations as well. What for you would constitute a good sell through in terms of units sold per year on a global basis? 10 million? For me it would be 15 million for a portable device. That would be a strong sell-through. The PSP nearly achieved that in its first year...but the DS peaked at some 26 million. I agree the primary competition may be the DS but do not underestimate the effect of the iTouch devices in the Western market.
huh? i have pretty much everything... and for a portable system.. id rather have buttons and sticks rather than my ip4 touch alone. am i a minority here given that ill spring for an NGP even though i have all the other consoles you mentioned. and hand-me-downs? i for one would be pretty excited about a KZ3 for portable, where i can take my online matches with me to my monthly doctors apt. then come back home with a few extra ranks, and continue back on the PS3... yeah i want new original titles... but damn, how awesome would it be to take ps3 games with you anywhere you went?
I am not saying the NGP is not appealing - just that I cannot see it hitting the critical success penetration rates which then drive in software developers.