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View Full Version : Splinter Cell Conviction looks effing incredible!!!



panson feo
05-04-2007, 14:45
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p177/blubbernalgas/IMG_0002.jpg

pendinginsanity
05-04-2007, 14:47
Holy cow !!!
gotta tone down the cocaine man, or is my eyes just playing tricks with me???

zero1661
05-04-2007, 14:49
it doesnt look any different than double agent.

panson feo
05-04-2007, 14:50
Wow. Best lighting I have ever seen in any console game.

panson feo
05-04-2007, 14:55
it doesnt look any different than double agent.

There is supposed to be hundreds of characters on screen. Double Agent had 8 max and this game still manages to look way better. UBI Montreal is awesome.

Sankari
05-04-2007, 14:58
Wow. Best lighting I have ever seen in any console game.

I hope you are seriously joking. Or you need to wake up.

panson feo
05-04-2007, 15:00
I hope you are seriously joking. Or you need to wake up.

My opinion, genius. The lighting is incredible and the game appears to be pushing tons of polys.

Sockpuppet
05-04-2007, 15:04
Don't see the big deal personally. I love my Splinter Cell games but the series needs a fresh change, the fact Fisher looks like a hobo indicates this game may well be different enough to justify purchasing a 5th installment. Time will tell I suppose.

zero1661
05-04-2007, 15:04
to me this is basically the same kind of upgrade that GRAW 2 got, in other words a very small one.

panson feo
05-04-2007, 15:10
to me this is basically the same kind of upgrade that GRAW 2 got, in other words a very small one.

You couldnt be more wrong. The game is supposed to have huge environments now and is pushing tons of characters on screen. If youre a fan of previous SC's you'd know that that is already a massive difference.

Read this.


Yah Finland on the spotlight! Its really phenomenal how the boys in "Pelaaja" have these connections all-around the world. I mean Splinter Cell 5 exclusive-material is huge!

I read the story yesterday and here`s all i remember. Hope it makes any sense. (i haven`t played any SC-games, but SC5 i WILL)


*some spoilers*

Sam is pretty pissed off to the organisation he worked in. He kinda tries to quit, and he becomes a FUGITIVE. Outlaw if you will. A woman she knows gets kidnapped and he goes for the rescue by himself. Without any support from anywhere and without his equipment. The emphasis on SC5 is using your surroundings. Apparently every single object in the game is usable and uses real physics. The developers have put really big amount of work on making the animations on SC5 the best there are. For example Sam can grab a chair while running and there is not a single/multi pre-made animations for this event. The chair has a certain amount of points where it can be grabbed and the "animation-motor" adjusts Sams arms so the animation is fluid and realistic. The Journalist who tested the game said it was still not finished, but the animations looked way better than ANYTHING he had ever seen in a game. Sounds great.

Sam cant kill cops, guards and such, but he can kill terrorists and other bad guys. He has a very good set of close combat skills and can push. and throw people around and this way knock them unconscious. (is that how its spelled?)

The demo level was a park with about 300 civilians. Sam had to make his way to a computer in a bar/office or something. Midst the crowd was some security personnel who were searching Sam. The devs told Pelaaja, that they tried to make the game so, that the gamers has free will over how the game progresses. So there isnt just a couple of linear and scripted ways to play the game. Sam could just blend in to the crowd easily and it was important not to show his face. Sam could "shadow" a person thus making his way to the Computer or he could smack some civilians causing a fuzz in the crowd. He could even blow up a gas tank and thus wreak panic among people. Making it easy to move through the crowd. If Sam causes too much ruckus though, the guards call some reinforcements from the company Sam worked. And they kill on sight.

CHOICE is another big aspect of the game for example if you get caught with another dude (a merchant of sorts/informant etc) you can decide if to help him/her to escape or to leave him to the cops. Of course he/her wont be there for you later on in the game.


*spoiler end*


Hope this gives you some image of the game. The magazine had some sweet screenshots of the game too. The tester was really hyped about the game and glad that they are doing something very new.

And yes its being developed exclusively for Xbox 360.


EDIT: No mentioning of the multiplayer in this article sorry.

Its getting a massive overhaul. If you dont see it you must not have played previous SC's.

banjo7
05-04-2007, 15:14
Its obvious this is a Pre render we wont see graphics like this for a long while even Crysis does not look that good on a super PC.

TGO
05-04-2007, 15:14
looks like it's using that Assassins Creed engine
So anyway when is Sam gonna get a bandana?

Naxi
05-04-2007, 15:21
Wow, definitely a big change from DA. Got me really hyped.

panson feo
05-04-2007, 15:26
Wow, definitely a big change from DA. Got me really hyped.

Finally a SC fan. I was beginning to feel lonely with all these negative comments. lol.

J3ff3
05-04-2007, 15:26
it doesnt look any different than double agent.yes it does. you are officially blind.

anyway.......heres hoping that it actually controls well, unlike any sneak em up so far.......

RavenLord
05-04-2007, 15:31
http://koti.mbnet.fi/tiong/conviction/pieni/IMG_0003.JPG

http://koti.mbnet.fi/tiong/conviction/pieni/IMG_0005.JPG

http://koti.mbnet.fi/tiong/conviction/pieni/IMG_0008.JPG

Naxi
05-04-2007, 15:40
Seems like the stealth aspect will be totally different. I hope they'll release a demo first.

J3ff3
05-04-2007, 15:40
just felt zero's comments needed to be reiterated after those amazing screens..........


it doesnt look any different than double agent.


to me this is basically the same kind of upgrade that GRAW 2 got, in other words a very small one.

GartMon
05-04-2007, 15:42
Wow splinter cell turning into a yearly franchise like madden or what. everytime I turn theres a new splinter cell game.

BudFox
05-04-2007, 15:54
Yeah it's my #1 title for 08. UBI Montreal doesn't **** around, they do good work. Always. Very excited for this game.

Sockpuppet
05-04-2007, 15:56
Wow splinter cell turning into a yearly franchise like madden or what. everytime I turn theres a new splinter cell game.Kind of, they are made by different development studio's inside of Ubisoft so it's not like they only work on it for a year, this game would have started development well before then.

Galls
05-04-2007, 16:05
In reality this is only the 3.5th installment of the franchise.

Splinter Cell, Splinter Cell:Chaos Theory are the only other games in the series.

Splinter Cell:Pandora Tomorrow was the point .5


It does look like it is using the the Assassins Creed engine. little iffy about what appears to be more rambo like game play.

Chee-up
05-04-2007, 16:11
Is this the Splinter Cell "5" that is exclusive to the 360?

chartwel
05-04-2007, 16:35
looks like its getting close to what we have seen with the getaway. good news indeed.

zero1661
05-04-2007, 16:38
Im not blind and you people can talk about how many people are on screen at once all you want but the actual textures, lighting and such look the same, go back and compare screen shots from double agent side by side.

PXG S3
05-04-2007, 16:41
I've never been a fan of Splinter Cell, but the concept for this one seems pretty promising to me.

panson feo
05-04-2007, 16:52
Im not blind and you people can talk about how many people are on screen at once all you want but the actual textures, lighting and such look the same, go back and compare screen shots from double agent side by side.

LOL. Please stop. Its like comparing Riddick to GTA4.

WebMoose
05-04-2007, 16:59
I'm a massive SplinterCell fan and if the game looks like that i'll eat my shorts.......lol

zero1661
05-04-2007, 17:01
LOL. Please stop. Its like comparing Riddick to GTA4.

that was an odd choice of games, and anyway the textures in those screen shots are completely flat just like they always are the only thing impressive is the character models

Bakari
05-04-2007, 17:36
A couple more scans can be found here: (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6287487&postcount=141) and the scans in their original size can be found here: (http://mbnet.fi/tiong/conviction/).

For those who say it doesn't look much better need to realize the improved lighting, incredible looking physics, and much more fluid animations.

BloodChannel
05-04-2007, 17:53
My opinion, genius. The lighting is incredible and the game appears to be pushing tons of polys.

Have you played it?:roll:

poematik14
05-04-2007, 18:16
I never liked Splinter Cell. It was..I dont know. But Conviction looks good, maybe Ill pick it up.

Ninja_Warrior
05-04-2007, 19:01
Cool can't wait for it^^.

Sino
05-04-2007, 19:04
Looks like Assassin's Creed, the crowd and all that stuff. I guess he is running away from the police, so this could have this movie street chasing scence feel to it.

GS kid
05-04-2007, 19:04
I love Splinter Cell and these shots look good. Looking forward to it.


But.....I don't mean to be the party pooper, but you do know that posting magazine scans is against the forum rules right?:???:

Sino
05-04-2007, 20:14
After seeing the scan and knowing the premise of the game, it reminds me of "Enemy of the State'( Will Smith).

Thegamingdwarf
05-04-2007, 20:32
Holy mother of god!!! Those look pretty damn... pretty lol. I've always rented the SC games, and had a good timw with them, but i always thought they felt way to limited, so i never bought them, but this one looks very promising, i may buy it.

The scans look fantastic, but why on earth was it put in a Finish magazine to begin with?!

Kaako
05-04-2007, 20:39
Looks good!
Sam looks like Mark from 1UP with his beard n emo hair now :lol:

Chee-up
05-04-2007, 20:41
Is this the version exclusive to the 360 or not?

YoungMullah88
05-04-2007, 20:41
they look good but i think they will even look better while in motion, the game is 360 exclusive but am praying for a timed exclusive(not that it matters, cause ubisoft will f**k it up like always)

Knuckles126
05-04-2007, 20:46
Why does Sam look like an Iraqi? :lol:

Kaako
05-04-2007, 20:47
I wonder if they'll keep it exclusive now...Practically everything is going Multiplatform so I wouldn't be surprised if this one comes to the PS3...
A timed-exclusive would be more likely...

Chee-up
05-04-2007, 20:52
I recall a story when MS first announced that Splinter Cell "5" would be exclusive saying that MS paid Ubi a crapload of money to keep it away from Sony.

The only way Ubi could make it timed is to break the contract with MS and that would set them up for a nasty legal battle since they already agreed on the deal with MS.

Kaako
05-04-2007, 20:57
I recall a story when MS first announced that Splinter Cell "5" would be exclusive saying that MS paid Ubi a crapload of money to keep it away from Sony.

The only way Ubi could make it timed is to break the contract with MS and that would set them up for a nasty legal battle since they already agreed on the deal with MS.

Unless M$ is willing to pay up BIG time, it'll go Multiplatform...
UBI: "Pay X amount for timed exclusive, or pay XXX amount for full exclusivity!"
M$: "Give me full exclusivity or give me DEATH!...here's $50 gazillion"
UBI: "Okie dokie! it's a deal!"

And that's how exclusivity is granted boys and girls...The END!
:lol:

Bakari
05-04-2007, 20:59
The difference between this and other "exclusive" games that went multiplatform. Is in the case of a game like Assassins Creed, it was never announced to be exclusive for the Playstation 3... we just assumed it because it was never announced for the 360. In this case, the game was specifically announced to be exclusive for the Xbox 360. Developers never tend to say that unless they really mean it.

maltrophstitan
05-04-2007, 21:00
i dont think any of us know the details of the contract for exclusivity.
it could very well be timed.

Ninja_Warrior
05-04-2007, 21:03
they look good but i think they will even look better while in motion, the game is 360 exclusive but am praying for a timed exclusive(not that it matters, cause ubisoft will f**k it up like always)
It's timed. This is UBI after all.

Chee-up
05-04-2007, 21:03
Unless M$ is willing to pay up BIG time, it'll go Multiplatform...
UBI: "Pay X amount for timed exclusive, or pay XXX amount for full exclusivity!"
M$: "Give me full exclusivity or give me DEATH!...here's $50 gazillion"
UBI: "Okie dokie! it's a deal!"

And that's how exclusivity is granted boys and girls...The END!
:lol:

They already have paid them. This was announced, I think at last E3, when we all found out it was a 360 exclusive.

MS is throwing a lot of money at devs and it will pay off for them in the long run. MS needs to give gamers to buy a 360 over a PS3 and they know that. The only way to do that is with exclusives.

Knuckles126
05-04-2007, 21:03
Again, why does he look Iraqi?

Kaako
05-04-2007, 21:08
Again, why does he look Iraqi?

Because he's mixed! His mom was born in Baghdad and his dad was born in Mexico! Hope that explain it :D

Once again, I wouldn't be surprised if it came to the PS3 after all...I know it was mentioned 360 "exclusive," but I still think it could be a timed exclusive...

maltrophstitan
05-04-2007, 21:09
Again, why does he look Iraqi?

its all the rage nowadays

str8upnobs
05-04-2007, 21:14
looks like it's using that Assassins Creed engine
So anyway when is Sam gonna get a bandana?


lol, nice MGS burn. I love it ;).

Bakari
05-04-2007, 23:18
Here are some main points of the article translated:

- No more sneaking around in the shadows. Apparently you're going to be more like James Bond and infiltrate buildings in plain daylight. You won't have to use force or sneak around as long as you don't act suspiciously.

- According to the article, every single object that is rendered on screen has physical properties and most of them can be used by Sam. For example, Sam can pick up furniture and use it as a weapon, or throw printers at enemies or papers in the face of enemies to gain the upperhand in fights.

- Melee fights are much more than "press this button to hit" this time around. There's different context sensitive attack buttons and as mentioned before lots of environmental interaction.

- Some pretty negative comments about the ps3 made by the devs. They state the fact that they are exclusive to the 360 allows them to do much more than if they were multiplatform (duh) but they also state they doubt they would be able to achieve what they're doing with the game on the 360 on the ps3 even if it was ps3 exclusive.

The lead programmer told the magazine he doubts they would have been able to pull of the lightning effects they have right now on the ps3. That's the only thing they say straight out, but they do state they believe they're much better off on the 360.

And I tried to shrink and clean up some of the scans, here are some:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3889/scc1bl1.png
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9471/scc2rx9.png
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1969/scc3hb7.png
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/1407/sc41sf8.pnghttp://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1372/sc42xf4.pnghttp://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5227/sc43qg1.png
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4096/scc5ib6.png
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/1972/scc6zj4.jpg

MSU_4life
05-05-2007, 00:14
Looks absolutely incredible... that is all... Best lighting ever IMHO

BudFox
05-05-2007, 00:27
looks like it's using that Assassins Creed engine
So anyway when is Sam gonna get a bandana?

I would assume the bandana will make an appearance at the same time they have Sam crawling around in boxes to fool enemies, fighting bosses that shoot bee's or lightning at him, and a japanese flair to the american dialogue and storyline.

Just havin some fun, not looking for a MGS vs SC battle.

HAYLOALDAILO
05-05-2007, 01:15
This game is not possible on the PS3 says ubisoft

Some pretty negative comments about the ps3 made by the devs. They state the fact that they are exclusive to the 360 allows them to do much more than if they were multiplatform (duh) but they also state they doubt they would be able to achieve what they're doing with the game on the 360 on the ps3 even if it was ps3 exclusive.

The lead programmer told the magazine he doubts they would have been able to pull of the lightning effects they have right now on the ps3. That's the only thing they say straight out, but they do state they believe they're much better off on the 360.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25609743&page=0

TGO
05-05-2007, 01:29
This game is not possible on the PS3 says ubisoft

Some pretty negative comments about the ps3 made by the devs. They state the fact that they are exclusive to the 360 allows them to do much more than if they were multiplatform (duh) but they also state they doubt they would be able to achieve what they're doing with the game on the 360 on the ps3 even if it was ps3 exclusive.

The lead programmer told the magazine he doubts they would have been able to pull of the lightning effects they have right now on the ps3. That's the only thing they say straight out, but they do state they believe they're much better off on the 360.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25609743&page=0

if you believe that you'll believe anything
fact is there will be better looking games with better & more advanced lighting on both systems
heck I reckon Silent Hill 5 will make this game look like last gen

Pump Action Pimp
05-05-2007, 02:22
I never played any SC game before, how does this game rank against Metal Queer? cuz I'm been lovin that MG series since I was 13 played all the MGS series on consoles. Solid snake vs. Sam, dont know who's more bad arse?

Omar
05-05-2007, 02:27
Wow. Best lighting I have ever seen in any console game.

You must've missed the crysis videos.

YoungMullah88
05-05-2007, 02:30
whatever you say ubisoft, after making two f**ked up ports it doesnt surprise me that you cant get it right. but then again all am asking is pleeease do not **** up rainbow six:vegas, even if you push it two more months i will still buy it(probably the only ubisoft game i will buy this whole year)

GS kid
05-05-2007, 02:30
I never played any SC game before, how does this game rank against Metal Queer? cuz I'm been lovin that MG series since I was 13 played all the MGS series on consoles. Solid snake vs. Sam, dont know who's more bad arse?

It's all a matter of preference. I prefer the more sim-like Splinter Cell then the more arcadey MGS series. But I always get both so I never miss out.

But the ending of MGS 2 was the worst in gaming history IMHO. My friend agrees too. He said he almost threw the controller across the room he was so mad at the ending. And he's a huge MGS fan. :suspect:

Naxi
05-05-2007, 02:31
You must've missed the crysis videos.
Is crysis a console game now?

Xaor
05-05-2007, 02:32
Splinter Cell seems to add plot twist plus more bloody plot twists to keep the story alive, its stupid.

Spy type games are cool, but... a 5th is pushing it.



Graphics look good, not AMAZING, not Gears, but great graphics... for crowds.

Omar
05-05-2007, 02:33
It's all a matter of preference. I prefer the more sim-like Splinter Cell then the more arcadey MGS series. But I always get both so I never miss out.

But the ending of MGS 2 was the worst in gaming history IMHO. My friend agrees too. He said he almost threw the controller across the room he was so mad at the ending. And he's a huge MGS fan. :suspect:

Actually it was still better than Halo 2's ending but we're talking about opinions here.

And Splinter Cell may be more realistic because of the controls and animations but its AI is pretty stupid and not realistic at all.


Is crysis a console game now?

Oh ok, I missed that part. I still don't think it's the best lighting ever on any console. It's pretty good though, not the best.

zsec
05-05-2007, 02:38
Maybe they'll revolutionize the game like in Chaos Theory with the knife? They definitely need to make human movement more realistic, and sam needs to be without any NSA gadgetry for at LEAST 75% of the missions, MIRITE?

YoungMullah88
05-05-2007, 02:44
Is crysis a console game now?

but when its mentioned in a ps3 thread(uncharted jungles) its all good right

TGO
05-05-2007, 02:44
I like both
but I prefer MGS, it pulls you in more & I sure love screwing around with the guards
And watching them try & find me after I've killed loads of guards
"!
Dam! that ba***** got another one, send another replacement guard to the area.
where is he?" :lol:
makes me laugh everytime :D

Me_Becoming_I
05-05-2007, 02:49
That looks great. Nothing mind blowing, but great. Mind you, they are scans.

However, I have an extremely hard time believing a word of the developer regarding the PS3 not being able to handle the game... I'm sorry, but they are sloppy PlayStation 3 developers, so they likely haven't seen what the PS3 is capable of.

I'm waiting on seeing in-game footage of the game before making a judgment. Everything looks better in motion (for the most part). Then I can see just how "amazing" the animation is. It'll be interesting to see if Ubisoft can beat who I think are the kings of animation, Naughty Dog, and I'm basing that on past PS2 games... we haven't seen Uncharted yet...

But looking good.

C.T.E.
05-05-2007, 02:53
This looks incredible. I cannot wait for this one. I was reading up on it and the game has me more hyped on the new engine than anything. Sounds like there's going to be a lot of freedom.

zsec
05-05-2007, 02:53
That looks great. Nothing mind blowing, but great. Mind you, they are scans.

However, I have an extremely hard time believing a word of the developer regarding the PS3 not being able to handle the game... I'm sorry, but they are sloppy PlayStation 3 developers, so they likely haven't seen what the PS3 is capable of.


well, they did say they don't think "THEY" could do it.

Naxi
05-05-2007, 02:53
but when its mentioned in a ps3 thread(uncharted jungles) its all good right
Why should it be? Crysis blows everything right now.

HAYLOALDAILO
05-05-2007, 02:56
I dont like playing 10 minutes then having to watch 15 minutes cutscenes.

vorian
05-05-2007, 02:58
You must've missed the crysis videos.

Hey - point me to the videos of the console version of Crysis man!..

Ive been thinking about building a new PC for the likes of Crysis, Stalker, Armed Assault and especially Infinity(I will lose my life to this).....

As for the SC:C shots, not too bad. I like the physics properties attached to the furnishing and decorators(like that food/drink tray)...cool :)

Naxi
05-05-2007, 03:00
I dont like playing 10 minutes then having to watch 15 minutes cutscenes.
and this is on-topic how?

People don't turn this into a MGS vs. SC thread.

I love both, good for me.

TGO
05-05-2007, 03:03
I dont like playing 10 minutes then having to watch 15 minutes cutscenes.

stop over exaggerating :lol:
it's 47 minutes gameplay followed by 10 minute cut scene
and as you progress the gameplay & cut scene time increases :lol:

YoungMullah88
05-05-2007, 03:07
mgs2 had the worst ending but i liked the cutscene(cutscene in games arent bad, i like them)

GS kid
05-05-2007, 03:20
Actually it was still better than Halo 2's ending but we're talking about opinions here.

And Splinter Cell may be more realistic because of the controls and animations but its AI is pretty stupid and not realistic at all.



Oh ok, I missed that part. I still don't think it's the best lighting ever on any console. It's pretty good though, not the best.

The only fault of the Halo 2 ending was that it was a cliff hanger. MGS 2 on the other hand had this long, twisted, convoluted POS ending that was Kojima's worst witting ever. Everything was fine with the game until it hit the ending.

As for Splinter Cells's AI !?!??! MGS's AI has been just as dumb. They walk set paths until something attracts their attention and then they investigate. Rinse and repeat. :rolleyes:


That looks great. Nothing mind blowing, but great. Mind you, they are scans.

However, I have an extremely hard time believing a word of the developer regarding the PS3 not being able to handle the game... I'm sorry, but they are sloppy PlayStation 3 developers, so they likely haven't seen what the PS3 is capable of.

I'm waiting on seeing in-game footage of the game before making a judgment. Everything looks better in motion (for the most part). Then I can see just how "amazing" the animation is. It'll be interesting to see if Ubisoft can beat who I think are the kings of animation, Naughty Dog, and I'm basing that on past PS2 games... we haven't seen Uncharted yet...

But looking good.

That's the standard response from the Sony crowd. If a dev dares say PS3 is hard or is incapable of something, he's labeled a lazy PS3 dev or he's in Microsoft's pocket. Sony fans will accept nothing but praise for their beloved little console. It happens daily here. :???:

zsec
05-05-2007, 03:26
That looks great. Nothing mind blowing, but great. Mind you, they are scans.

However, I have an extremely hard time believing a word of the developer regarding the PS3 not being able to handle the game... I'm sorry, but they are sloppy PlayStation 3 developers, so they likely haven't seen what the PS3 is capable of.

I'm waiting on seeing in-game footage of the game before making a judgment. Everything looks better in motion (for the most part). Then I can see just how "amazing" the animation is. It'll be interesting to see if Ubisoft can beat who I think are the kings of animation, Naughty Dog, and I'm basing that on past PS2 games... we haven't seen Uncharted yet...

But looking good.

JAK jumped pretty. Yay. Did you even play Prince of Persia?

DOGG
05-05-2007, 03:26
IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
This looks FAR too good to be real-time. Please tell em they are...
Best graphics I have ever seen.

Dissident
05-05-2007, 03:35
According to the article, every single object that is rendered on screen has physical properties and most of them can be used by Sam. For example, Sam can pick up furniture and use it as a weapon, or throw printers at enemies or papers in the face of enemies to gain the upperhand in fights.

That's what I'm talking about! Looks incredible also.

Bakari
05-05-2007, 03:49
whatever you say ubisoft, after making two f**ked up ports it doesnt surprise me that you cant get it right. but then again all am asking is pleeease do not **** up rainbow six:vegas, even if you push it two more months i will still buy it(probably the only ubisoft game i will buy this whole year)

Uhhh besides Splinter Cell: Double Agent, what Playstation 3 port has Ubisoft f**cked up? Because if you were not aware, Enchanted Arms was developed by From Software not Ubisoft. Hardly a track record worth refusing to buy games over Lmao...

DOGG
05-05-2007, 03:54
whatever you say ubisoft, after making two f**ked up ports it doesnt surprise me that you cant get it right. but then again all am asking is pleeease do not **** up rainbow six:vegas, even if you push it two more months i will still buy it(probably the only ubisoft game i will buy this whole year)

http://www.brunswick.k12.me.us/lon/lonlinks/grade1/money/images/us-quarter.gif
I'd like you to take this quarter and call somebody who cares, because majority of us certainly don't. If you want a pit party, throw it in the PS3 section.

240_Bravo
05-05-2007, 04:45
OH man thats classic DOGG, thats like one MY faviort qoutes from Buse Willlis in Striking Distance, where he says your mistaken me for someone who gives a sh__. Anyway the game looks good and Ill bet thats got to real time.

The 360 is getting some great games and its killing the PS3 boys and grils. If you whant read some really sad post go into the PS3 games section under the GTHD vs PGR4 thread.

4D_Goggles
05-05-2007, 04:47
Looks very nice, need to see it in motion.

YoungMullah88
05-05-2007, 04:51
http://www.brunswick.k12.me.us/lon/lonlinks/grade1/money/images/us-quarter.gif
I'd like you to take this quarter and call somebody who cares, because majority of us certainly don't. If you want a pit party, throw it in the PS3 section.

calm down with that sh*t folk. (edited, no need to derail)

to bakari, am counting Graw2 and R6:vegas to that list, something tells me it will even be worse than the pc counter-part

"Its Qwarktastic"!!!
05-05-2007, 04:55
holy kripe that does look good .......first time ive seen it im definatly adding it to my "must get list"

RedOrb_Collector
05-05-2007, 05:11
Wow. That looks nice! (one)

NovemberMike
05-05-2007, 05:38
if you believe that you'll believe anything
fact is there will be better looking games with better & more advanced lighting on both systems
heck I reckon Silent Hill 5 will make this game look like last gen

:rolleyes: And what about LAIR only being possible on the PS3? The fact is that the 360 does have quite a few advanages over the PS3 in terms of shader models and GPU power.



And Splinter Cell may be more realistic because of the controls and animations but its AI is pretty stupid and not realistic at all.


Chaos Theory AI was perfect. It was good enough to punish you for doing something stupid, but it was predictable enough that you could effectively make plans. When AI is too good the game becomes unfun (remember that they are there to put up a short fight and die).


That looks great. Nothing mind blowing, but great. Mind you, they are scans.

However, I have an extremely hard time believing a word of the developer regarding the PS3 not being able to handle the game... I'm sorry, but they are sloppy PlayStation 3 developers, so they likely haven't seen what the PS3 is capable of.

These aren't PoS developers. These are the guys who brought us Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell, and are rated among the top devs anywhere.



I'm waiting on seeing in-game footage of the game before making a judgment. Everything looks better in motion (for the most part). Then I can see just how "amazing" the animation is. It'll be interesting to see if Ubisoft can beat who I think are the kings of animation, Naughty Dog, and I'm basing that on past PS2 games... we haven't seen Uncharted yet...

But looking good.

Actually, I am pretty sure Ubi Montreal had animations as good as anything else last gen with the Prince of Persia series, and what Splinter Cell had was no slouch either.

MarKoNiO
05-05-2007, 05:39
Yeah it does look very good !

NeverNight
05-05-2007, 06:08
http://ps3forums.com/images/smilies/laughing7.gif Sam Fisher, you handsome little hobo!

furby
05-05-2007, 06:11
Although the graphics do look nice, indeed, I didn't pay attention to them, I was appauled at the number of characters on-screen.

Stewie Skywalker
05-05-2007, 06:15
Is it me or do they take the series further and further from it's roots with every game. I know a game is supposed to evolve but Splinter Cell is now the Bourne Identity.

NovemberMike
05-05-2007, 06:18
Although the graphics do look nice, indeed, I didn't pay attention to them, I was appauled at the number of characters on-screen.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p177/blubbernalgas/IMG_0002.jpg
I don't see the problem.

CrazyLikeDat
05-05-2007, 06:21
Seems like the stealth aspect will be totally different. I hope they'll release a demo first.

If anyone doubts the power of X360 now, just look at these screens and ...
DROOL!!:mrgreen::mrgreen:

Omar
05-05-2007, 06:56
The only fault of the Halo 2 ending was that it was a cliff hanger. MGS 2 on the other hand had this long, twisted, convoluted POS ending that was Kojima's worst witting ever. Everything was fine with the game until it hit the ending.

As for Splinter Cells's AI !?!??! MGS's AI has been just as dumb. They walk set paths until something attracts their attention and then they investigate. Rinse and repeat. :rolleyes:


Opinions, at least MGS2 didn't suck as a game. The ending was just as bad as Halo 2 but at least it had some philosophical monologues...even if they weren't all that realistic.

About the AI, you're telling me that Splinter Cell's AI doesn't do that same thing? It does the same thing except it's WORSE. Did you ever play MGS3 at extreme? I'm guessing NO. Everything in that game is calculated, your chances of being found have a percentage depending on how you're situated and what you're wearing. MGS had amazing AI, if you think that AI has problems then I'm guessing you don't know what AI is. FEAR's AI was probably the best out of all games I've ever played, MGS2 and 3 were just limited by PS2's architecture but they were still the best on PS2 and one of the best on any console (that includes Halo 1).


Chaos Theory AI was perfect. It was good enough to punish you for doing something stupid, but it was predictable enough that you could effectively make plans. When AI is too good the game becomes unfun (remember that they are there to put up a short fight and die).

When AI is too good then you should be playing party games.

AI isn't about being good, it's about variations. In Splinter Cell, there's only so many ways you can do something, most things that you did had a similar effect in how it ended, most weapons in the game were useless, you could pretty much complete the whole game with a pistol (that is if you were lucky enough to get a headshot on them cause most of the time, the stupid agent couldn't even shoot straight from 10 feet away without missing a bullet or two first, even if you were dead on).

Don't get me started on this dumb game.

I knew UBISOFT had a limit and it was proven with the recent SC...it's just a good series, not an amazing series like MGS. There's no comparison. No innovation comes out of SC (except maybe the shoulder cam)

HAYLOALDAILO
05-05-2007, 07:04
Splinter cell series is a better more realistic stealth game imo.

mjolnirV
05-05-2007, 08:33
I wonder if they'll keep it exclusive now...Practically everything is going Multiplatform so I wouldn't be surprised if this one comes to the PS3...
A timed-exclusive would be more likely...
Try looking this stuff up before trying to explain what's "more likely". Ubi Montreal wanted to make this an Xbox 360 exclusive to focus their attention and make the best next-gen Splinter Cell possible as opposed to their old philosophy- make it for Ps2, Xbox, Gamecube, Xbox 360, PC, Ps3, GBA, DS, PSP, cell phone, N-Gage, etc. and divide the vision for the game across many different versions of hardware, often ending up with a different game itself on each platform. Microsoft cemented this wish of Ubisoft by whipping out the checkbook and enticing them to only make it for Xbox 360 and Games for Windows. Every person playing Conviction will be on the same friends system, get the same achievements, and having it on these two platforms (as well as NOT being developed by Ubi Shanghai) will ensure that it isn't a bug ridden mess like the 360 version of Double Agent or the bug/fatal error/random shutdown ridden PC version of Double Agent.

IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
This looks FAR too good to be real-time. Please tell em they are...
Best graphics I have ever seen.

Dude, if you see the context of the screenshots... whatever, bottom line is that these are not only "real-time" or "in-engine" but in-game.

pascale
05-05-2007, 08:38
Opinions, at least MGS2 didn't suck as a game. The ending was just as bad as Halo 2 but at least it had some philosophical monologues...even if they weren't all that realistic.

So let's see. Realistic counter-espionage situations with limited moral choices vs unrealistic tactical stealth situations with fortune cookie philosophical underpinnings?
Whatever...

Both games are very good and aiming for different things. If you are into Sci-fi, then MGS is the way to go. If you are more into realism, SC is the thing for you.

I applaud kojima for trying to basically integrate a videogame medium with Ghost in the Shell type meditations on the nature of being a warrior.

I also applaud Ubi for recreating the tense political implications that Tom Clancy is famous for into a videogame format.

Unfortunately, the translation severely hampers MGS, which isn't a problem for SC.

Both games successfully deal with the implications of developping technologies (Walking WMDs in MGS, and information warfare in SC). MGS is usually about taking out an area within a certain amount of time, whereas SC is about international politics, therefore exploring more locals and more of the real world.


About the AI, you're telling me that Splinter Cell's AI doesn't do that same thing? It does the same thing except it's WORSE. Did you ever play MGS3 at extreme? I'm guessing NO. Everything in that game is calculated, your chances of being found have a percentage depending on how you're situated and what you're wearing. MGS had amazing AI, if you think that AI has problems then I'm guessing you don't know what AI is. FEAR's AI was probably the best out of all games I've ever played, MGS2 and 3 were just limited by PS2's architecture but they were still the best on PS2 and one of the best on any console (that includes Halo 1).

Percentages and calculations don't equal good AI. The reactivity of characters does. I've played both games on their hardest difficulties. Personally, I've always found SC more challenging, because you can't get away with cartoonish tricks, and what tricks you do have are harder to perform without being found out. I find those enemies much less predictable and harder to take down once they've noticed something is off...



When AI is too good then you should be playing party games.

AI isn't about being good, it's about variations. In Splinter Cell, there's only so many ways you can do something, most things that you did had a similar effect in how it ended, most weapons in the game were useless, you could pretty much complete the whole game with a pistol (that is if you were lucky enough to get a headshot on them cause most of the time, the stupid agent couldn't even shoot straight from 10 feet away without missing a bullet or two first, even if you were dead on).

"AI isn't about being good, it's about variations." What is that supposed to mean? You expect you're AI to be bad?
Perhaps you meant variations are what makes AI good. But then your examples of variations have nothing to do with AI, but with level construction and paths to completion. If you want to look at that, then SC and MGS rarely have more than one primary objective, so yes, most things you do have a similar effect in how it ends. Then again, so far only SC has multiple endings, whereas you can't mess with Kojima's movie...
Now on the issue of weapons. Yes, you can finish the game without shooting once or even pulling out the knife. You can also do it entirely with the Machine gun. It's up to you. Your comment on the gun leads me to believe you are a bad shot, because I love doing headshots with that single "thump" from the silencer, and I rarely, if ever, miss. Neither do the AI guards, BTW, i've died far many more times in SC than in MGS.


Don't get me started on this dumb game.

You already have and proven your ignorance of it.


I knew UBISOFT had a limit and it was proven with the recent SC...it's just a good series, not an amazing series like MGS. There's no comparison. No innovation comes out of SC (except maybe the shoulder cam)

Wow... just wow. There are so many things wrong with that last comment it would take a multi-volume refutation to do it justice, and frankly, I'd rather enjoy my youth.
Enjoy the bitterness of blinders. I'll keep enjoying the joys and limitations of both series.

PS, sorry to again have to contradict you, but how is Kojima not a one-trick poney compared with Ubisoft's numerous mutliple-award winning series?

The House
05-05-2007, 08:45
Yeah Double Agent looked incredible too.

Tedakin
05-05-2007, 08:58
I love how the new SC games have got this ongoing storyline, and aren't just stand alone games like the first 3. Sam Fisher is finally a character and has depth, unlike in the original 3 titles.

pascale
05-05-2007, 09:10
Actually, this storyline started in Chaos theory (game 3). That's when Sam started questioning his orders and loyalties, and also where you had moral choices, though they had no impact like in Double agent...

Express
05-05-2007, 10:05
This game is not possible on the PS3 says ubisoft

Some pretty negative comments about the ps3 made by the devs. They state the fact that they are exclusive to the 360 allows them to do much more than if they were multiplatform (duh) but they also state they doubt they would be able to achieve what they're doing with the game on the 360 on the ps3 even if it was ps3 exclusive.

The lead programmer told the magazine he doubts they would have been able to pull of the lightning effects they have right now on the ps3. That's the only thing they say straight out, but they do state they believe they're much better off on the 360.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25609743&page=0



Well that's pretty faulty translation. The dev never says, that the game wouldn't be possible on the ps3. He only states that IF they would have gone multiplatform, they would have to change the lightning effects radically because of the differences of coding for each consoles.

He actually says nothing bad about the PS3. He says that he has no idea what kind of quality they would have produced, if they had developed exclusively for the PS3. Now this doesn't mean that they couldn't pull of those 360 effects on the PS3!!

This is all said on the left corner of the picture....On finnish =)
http://mbnet.fi/tiong/conviction/IMG_0006.JPG

Just to clear some things up....

Express

Boogie Woogie
05-05-2007, 10:34
If anyone doubts the power of X360 now, just look at these screens and ...
DROOL!!:mrgreen::mrgreen:
Who says these screens are gameplay . Show me someone holding a controller playing that and i'll believe the 360 is that powerful .

sevendesigns
05-05-2007, 10:44
Wow, looks pretty damn good.

Mael Duin
05-05-2007, 10:53
Well that's pretty faulty translation. The dev never says, that the game wouldn't be possible on the ps3. He only states that IF they would have gone multiplatform, they would have to change the lightning effects radically because of the differences of coding for each consoles.

He actually says nothing bad about the PS3. He says that he has no idea what kind of quality they would have produced, if they had developed exclusively for the PS3. Now this doesn't mean that they couldn't pull of those 360 effects on the PS3!!

This is all said on the left corner of the picture....On finnish =)
http://mbnet.fi/tiong/conviction/IMG_0006.JPG

Just to clear some things up....

Express
As finnish I can confirm this too. And oh yeah, finnish magazine on the spotlight! =)
I have never liked Splinter Cell games that much but this one looks great. I'm very interested with this and multiplayer.

Einhander
05-05-2007, 11:05
Looks good. Sam looks kind of stiff in this shot though. But considering how many characters are on screen at once I'd say this is a good looking title. Notice the clueless cop walking right past Sam? I wonder how this one is gonna be structured. So far I have played and finished every single Splinter Cell in order. The franchise is starting to get stale for me so I was planning to take a break from SC with this next one (actually I said the same thing when SC: DA was about to ship), but I may have to keep the tradition going at least a little longer.

acereborn
05-05-2007, 12:16
wow. they look very good, but it would be nice to see some regular shoots and not scans.

Stewie Skywalker
05-05-2007, 15:44
It looks nice but again its not like HOLY JESUS! It has to have a great animation system(think Uncharted), to go with those realistic visuals.

Chemo
05-05-2007, 17:34
This game only ups gears in the lightning department everything else is still in gears favor.(note that i am saying this because the new maps blows these)Anyway, SC isn't my cup of tea i'll take MGS over SC anyday i hated the series on the Xbox it was well....boring.

Knuckles126
05-05-2007, 18:18
Why are we still using Gears as the benchmark for Xbox 360 graphics? It has already been PWNED! by games like GRAW2 and Motorstorm...and most recently, Haze. :D

panson feo
05-05-2007, 18:20
Why are we still using Gears as the benchmark for Xbox 360 graphics? It has already been PWNED! by games like GRAW2 and Motorstorm...and most recently, Haze. :D

This is true. GRAW2 is technically way ahead of Gears. The lighting alone tops gears.

Omar
05-05-2007, 19:13
So let's see. Realistic counter-espionage situations with limited moral choices vs unrealistic tactical stealth situations with fortune cookie philosophical underpinnings?
Whatever...

I'm talking about Halo 2...not SC. And I'd rather take MGS's "unrealistic tactical stealth situations with fortune cookie philosophical underpinnings" than SC's "Oh let's create a dumb plot twist that is predictable but who cares, no one's following the story anyway".


Both games are very good and aiming for different things. If you are into Sci-fi, then MGS is the way to go. If you are more into realism, SC is the thing for you.

I applaud kojima for trying to basically integrate a videogame medium with Ghost in the Shell type meditations on the nature of being a warrior.

I also applaud Ubi for recreating the tense political implications that Tom Clancy is famous for into a videogame format.

Unfortunately, the translation severely hampers MGS, which isn't a problem for SC.

Both games successfully deal with the implications of developping technologies (Walking WMDs in MGS, and information warfare in SC). MGS is usually about taking out an area within a certain amount of time, whereas SC is about international politics, therefore exploring more locals and more of the real world.

See that's where you're missing the point, I'm not even talking about the storylines of both games, although SC always has these cliche stories that we see in pretty much every other counter-terrorism game out there...:sleep: I'm talking about the gameplay and how the games play...which is what I'm going to talk about below.


Percentages and calculations don't equal good AI. The reactivity of characters does. I've played both games on their hardest difficulties. Personally, I've always found SC more challenging, because you can't get away with cartoonish tricks, and what tricks you do have are harder to perform without being found out. I find those enemies much less predictable and harder to take down once they've noticed something is off...

Firstly, I don't know how you find SC hard because I've played it on the hardest and you literally do not need any skill regarding stealth when playing this game. All you need to know is how to keep yourself in the dark...the enemies, most of the times, will not even see your from 2 feet away EVEN if you're standing. I know this dumbass game, you can't trick anyone here...I gave this game a chance, it failed miserably.


"AI isn't about being good, it's about variations." What is that supposed to mean? You expect you're AI to be bad?
Perhaps you meant variations are what makes AI good. But then your examples of variations have nothing to do with AI, but with level construction and paths to completion. If you want to look at that, then SC and MGS rarely have more than one primary objective, so yes, most things you do have a similar effect in how it ends. Then again, so far only SC has multiple endings, whereas you can't mess with Kojima's movie...
Now on the issue of weapons. Yes, you can finish the game without shooting once or even pulling out the knife. You can also do it entirely with the Machine gun. It's up to you. Your comment on the gun leads me to believe you are a bad shot, because I love doing headshots with that single "thump" from the silencer, and I rarely, if ever, miss. Neither do the AI guards, BTW, i've died far many more times in SC than in MGS.

I was talking about how the interaction of you as the player and the enemy ends...in SC there are limited ways of how you're killing the enemy, also it's the same crap over and over again, there aren't different scenarios, there are only limited amount of enemies on the screen as well which is part of the problem why you'll always find yourself just taking them out one way and other ways are not requires which is stupid. The last SC I played, they gave you too much darkness in the game, you could literally walk around the whole level without being skillfull, you didn't need skill to be hidden in the shadows, the enemy just can't see you in there. Even if you hit the enemy once and then stay at your spot, the enemy will go around and then act like nothing happened.

In MGS, you hit an enemy or shoot and enemy, they will report their SWAT team and they will come in and search the whole area, they have training to search buildings, throw grenades in enclosed areas, smokes, you name it. They got a shotgunner with a shield, automatic riflemen, demolition (who throws grenades) etc. This **** is NOT in SC, they don't search for you, you can keep shooting someone and just hide in the corner a few feet away and the enemy will never see you...so much for realistic espionage...

About the aim, please, don't talk to me about aim, I will mess you up in any shooting game out there, and I play realistic games like GRAW/Socom/Raven Shield. This game has one of the worst aiming I've ever seen. The assault gun moves so much that you feel that Sam needs some training before doing these missions. They did that on purpose, so that the combats are short-range and more varied but it's dumb. In MGS, you could lay down and the first bullet of your M16 could take off a head from 150 yards if you aimed it correctly. If Sam were to fight Snake, Snake would probably take off Sam's head from a distance while Sam will probably try to hit Snake with bullets hitting in the 10 yard radius of him.


PS, sorry to again have to contradict you, but how is Kojima not a one-trick poney compared with Ubisoft's numerous mutliple-award winning series?

Multiple-award winning, I'm guessing that's not gameplay or storyline...probably graphics.

mjolnirV
05-05-2007, 20:53
Why are we still using Gears as the benchmark for Xbox 360 graphics? It has already been PWNED! by games like GRAW2 and Motorstorm...and most recently, Haze. :D
I don't mean to flame, but I played Motorstorm at a Ps3 kiosk yesterday on one of those Sony flat panels, and granted once I figured out how to turn on motion sensitive steering I had alot of fun (I still got last place because it was so finicky), but the game looked like ass. It had some nice graphical effects and the number of separate models for every part of a vehicle was nice to see (especially when you use the turbo too much and it explodes), but the textures were crap, and there were jaggies EVERYWHERE. The only time I had a framerate above 30fps was when I was losing so bad I was the only car within view (This is the game that Sony originally pimped at E3 as being their flagship "1080p 60fps" game). At the start of the race, when there are 15 cars all spitting up dirt and swerving around, it was such a slideshow I just held down the trigger and tried not to rotate my view so I wouldn't get lost in how choppy it was. In any case, I certainly disagree with your opinion that it owned Gears.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

sevendesigns
05-05-2007, 21:16
I don't mean to flame, but I played Motorstorm at a Ps3 kiosk yesterday on one of those Sony flat panels, and granted once I figured out how to turn on motion sensitive steering I had alot of fun (I still got last place because it was so finicky), but the game looked like ass. It had some nice graphical effects and the number of separate models for every part of a vehicle was nice to see (especially when you use the turbo too much and it explodes), but the textures were crap, and there were jaggies EVERYWHERE. The only time I had a framerate above 30fps was when I was losing so bad I was the only car within view (This is the game that Sony originally pimped at E3 as being their flagship "1080p 60fps" game). At the start of the race, when there are 15 cars all spitting up dirt and swerving around, it was such a slideshow I just held down the trigger and tried not to rotate my view so I wouldn't get lost in how choppy it was. In any case, I certainly disagree with your opinion that it owned Gears.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

That's the problem. You played an old build of the game with all the effects turned off. Anyone who has played on those Kiosks, and then played the final build will tell you how much BETTER is looks in the final build.

I don't see jaggies, and the textures are damn impressive for that type of game.

I suggest you play final builds of games before judging a game based on an old build being displayed at some random store.

I made this mistake one time, and I almost missed out on some great looking games.

Bakari
05-05-2007, 21:28
Who says these screens are gameplay . Show me someone holding a controller playing that and i'll believe the 360 is that powerful .

FFS Splinter Cell doesn't have Pre Rendered cut scenes....

Sockpuppet
05-05-2007, 21:35
I don't mean to flame, but I played Motorstorm at a Ps3 kiosk yesterday on one of those Sony flat panels, and granted once I figured out how to turn on motion sensitive steering I had alot of fun (I still got last place because it was so finicky), but the game looked like ass. It had some nice graphical effects and the number of separate models for every part of a vehicle was nice to see (especially when you use the turbo too much and it explodes), but the textures were crap, and there were jaggies EVERYWHERE. The only time I had a framerate above 30fps was when I was losing so bad I was the only car within view (This is the game that Sony originally pimped at E3 as being their flagship "1080p 60fps" game). At the start of the race, when there are 15 cars all spitting up dirt and swerving around, it was such a slideshow I just held down the trigger and tried not to rotate my view so I wouldn't get lost in how choppy it was. In any case, I certainly disagree with your opinion that it owned Gears.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

I don't think it's better than Gears graphically, not by a long shot, but Motorstorm doesn't have any of the issues you brought up; the frame rate is very steady and the graphics are very very good, as I mentioned not GOW good but certainly incredibly solid and better than whats seen in the majority of Xbox360 or PS3 titles.

Naxi
05-05-2007, 22:01
FFS Splinter Cell doesn't have Pre Rendered cut scenes....
Splinter Cell does have pre-rendered cutscenes, but they look much better than this.

mjolnirV
05-06-2007, 03:37
I don't think it's better than Gears graphically, not by a long shot, but Motorstorm doesn't have any of the issues you brought up; the frame rate is very steady and the graphics are very very good, as I mentioned not GOW good but certainly incredibly solid and better than whats seen in the majority of Xbox360 or PS3 titles.
Not to mention that they're completely different games, so it was probably a bad comparison in the first place. It's like saying the Halo 3 Beta looks better than GTHD.

supersithzilla
05-06-2007, 07:34
looks like it's using that Assassins Creed engine
So anyway when is Sam gonna get a bandana?

you took the words right out of my mouth. It doesw look very similar to assassin creed just look at the lighting.
I am looking foward to playing the next installment.

pascale
05-06-2007, 07:47
I'm talking about Halo 2...not SC. And I'd rather take MGS's "unrealistic tactical stealth situations with fortune cookie philosophical underpinnings" than SC's "Oh let's create a dumb plot twist that is predictable but who cares, no one's following the story anyway".

1st, you seem to be under the impression that I felt SC's "Realistic counter-espionage situations with limited moral choices" are better than MGS's "unrealistic tactical stealth situations with fortune cookie philosophical underpinnings". Get over yourself and your attachment to a product, They are both equally good in my mind, since they are reaching for different goals--the "fortune cookie" aspect being only a result of a complexe subject being charred by an unfit medium, something every critic recognized and yet still appreciated...
Second, please explain in specific what is predictable about SC's plots, and why nobody would care to follow such a plot? Because if a plot needs clones to keep your attention, your tastes obviously aren't representative of what most people consider entertainment.


See that's where you're missing the point, I'm not even talking about the storylines of both games, although SC always has these cliche stories that we see in pretty much every other counter-terrorism game out there...:sleep:

Again, please specify what is cliche about the plots, and what other games (hell even movies) make the use of such plots. It would seriously help the credibility of your taste/opinion based arguments.



I'm talking about the gameplay and how the games play...which is what I'm going to talk about below.

You do realize that while both games have "stealth" in the title, both also aim at a different sort of stealth?




Firstly, I don't know how you find SC hard because I've played it on the hardest and you literally do not need any skill regarding stealth when playing this game. All you need to know is how to keep yourself in the dark...the enemies, most of the times, will not even see your from 2 feet away EVEN if you're standing.

Which should be a normal thing. Do you have a cat's abillity to see in pitch black darkness?
Now, if you play the game on easy, for sure it's a cake walk. But I can assure you that SC takes skill unless you are an Uber-gamer, and therefore most games are cakewalks.
I've thoroughly played both series, and can assure you that when it comes to stealth, there is little difference in the games.
Now where the gameplay differs is in Bosses. To whit, SC doesn't really have any, whereas MGS eventually forces you into an action game situation where stealth isn't an option and you need to jump, hop and roll yourself into combat.
That's why MGS is a TACTICAL stealth game, more about all out action, and SC is more of an espionage stealth game, where information and accessing it without leaving a trace is more important.
Again, not that one is better than the other, but that they are aiming for different things.


I know this dumbass game, you can't trick anyone here...I gave this game a chance, it failed miserably.

Okay, your tastes are not only different but intolerant. Please don't pretend to talk for other people, and accuse me of tricking people. If you have so much pent up aggressivity, take up boxing or something. Don't take it out passively on people who disagree with you on forums.
PS:And for Gd's sake, please be civil...Nobody needs your Wahhabist/Salafist interpretation of videogames...If you are going to claim the name of one of Islam's gnostic traditions, do it a favor by putting down your aggressivity and using your mind...but then perhaps you don't know of what you speak?


I was talking about how the interaction of you as the player and the enemy ends...

And you realize that has nothing to do with AI, but with the programing of different ways of interacting with said enemy? You can have a game with extremely deep AI and yet only 1 way of killing the enemy...


in SC there are limited ways of how you're killing the enemy, also it's the same crap over and over again, there aren't different scenarios, there are only limited amount of enemies on the screen as well which is part of the problem why you'll always find yourself just taking them out one way and other ways are not requires which is stupid.

And MGS has thousands of enemies on screen, right? Rubbish.
And the rest is just bulloney too. There are so many ways of taking enemies out that I have yet to replay a level of any SC the same way. The variety of weapons and there modification ensure this on a purely brutal level, not to mention the incredible gadgets on hand. In fact, SC has been at the forefront of adding ways of taking out enemies from stealth perspective. You can trick enemies into coming to you with knocks, whistles and thrown objects. You can take them hostage and use them as human shields and human keycards, not to mention get info from them. You can knock'em out or kill them, and place bodies to set traps. You can strangle or kill by hanging from your legs or pull enemies down from ledges. hell, you can use your sticky cams to poison people, you can use water as a conductor to sticky shock groups of people, etc etc etc.
And naturally, NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE REQUIRED, BECAUSE THAT WOULD LEAVE YOU WITH NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER.


The last SC I played, they gave you too much darkness in the game, you could literally walk around the whole level without being skillfull, you didn't need skill to be hidden in the shadows, the enemy just can't see you in there. Even if you hit the enemy once and then stay at your spot, the enemy will go around and then act like nothing happened.

Perhaps you missed the part where killing people is actually a bad thing? That unlike MGS, SC is a game where being able to complete the game without ever taking anyone out and still not being detected is actually a proof of skill?
As for hitting the enemy and acting like nothing happened........what game are you playing?


In MGS, you hit an enemy or shoot and enemy, they will report their SWAT team and they will come in and search the whole area, they have training to search buildings, throw grenades in enclosed areas, smokes, you name it.

yes, and yet the colorful box that keeps moving around is never noticed... Man, if SWAT teams were really like that, hostages would kill themselves... Great AI there.


They got a shotgunner with a shield, automatic riflemen, demolition (who throws grenades) etc. This **** is NOT in SC, they don't search for you, you can keep shooting someone and just hide in the corner a few feet away and the enemy will never see you...so much for realistic espionage...

1st off, obviously, the fact that overequipped swat teams show up tells you that MGS has more of an action bent than pure stealth. 2nd, the enemies in SC also have shotguns, grenades etc, except they kill in just a couple of bullets. They don't need a whole swat team. That comment alone makes me wonder whether you've ever played an SC game.
Also, since Chaos Theory (SC 3) enemies have had search lights and flares, as well as a propensity to call back up while they search for you. Again makes me wonder whether all of your heavily opinionated, and very aggressive comments are based on SC 1.
Cause if you want to go that route, we can dig out MGS 1 or even the older NES MGs and see how they hold up...


About the aim, please, don't talk to me about aim, I will mess you up in any shooting game out there, and I play realistic games like GRAW/Socom/Raven Shield.

Not only do the control schemes, reactivity and perspectives of those games make them anything but realistic, but if what you say were true then you would have no problem with SC>it's multiplayer aspect, even as spies, requires one to know how to use the guns effectively, and it shares a lot with GRAW. If you can't do it, but I can, that just proves that its about practice. Every game has a different feel.


This game has one of the worst aiming I've ever seen. The assault gun moves so much that you feel that Sam needs some training before doing these missions. They did that on purpose, so that the combats are short-range and more varied but it's dumb.

Is it now? how do you explain people getting headshots while their targets are zipping down cables? Or while the targets are running while you are hanging UPSIDE DOWN three floor above? I've managed all these things. The fact that you can't is your problem, not the game's.
Every game has its own formula to make it work. If up close and intense is what Ubi had planned for the game, as you seem to be assuming, then that's what CAN work for SC (but I already know that long range also works and is freaking deadly).


In MGS, you could lay down and the first bullet of your M16 could take off a head from 150 yards if you aimed it correctly.

Well, other than the fact that accurately counting yards in a videogame is very hard, nothing stops you from doing the same in SC. In fact, headshots are not only the most enjoyable, but the most common type of death you can deal, especially from afar.


If Sam were to fight Snake, Snake would probably take off Sam's head from a distance while Sam will probably try to hit Snake with bullets hitting in the 10 yard radius of him.

Um... I don't even want to dignify this hypothetical with a response...


Multiple-award winning, I'm guessing that's not gameplay or storyline...probably graphics.

Well, if you read correctly, you will see I said serieS. Kojima has one. You were talking about Ubi's limitations, and they have delivered far more original blockbusters than Kojima or Konami.
If you need to look it up, you will notice that overall SC has garnered more awards, for graphics obviously, but also for gameplay, both for the Single player games, but especially for its multiplayer experience.
The fact that you failed to recognise the incredible innovation in Multiplayer gameplay just shows how little you know of the SC games, and why I felt a multi-volume rebuttal was necessary to your comment about "no innovation ever came out of SC except over the should cam"...

PS: i just realized who I was talking to. I should have noticed it in the passive agressivity, but Sufi, you have never been interested in rational debate, only your own rantings... You should change your name, its an insult to an old gnostic tradition...

NovemberMike
05-06-2007, 08:42
Second, please explain in specific what is predictable about SC's plots, and why nobody would care to follow such a plot? Because if a plot needs clones to keep your attention, your tastes obviously aren't representative of what most people consider entertainment.


Yeah, it would be horrible if a game basically reused the plot of infiltrate a facility, contact an "inside man", fight a bunch of freak commandos (all while an enigmatic insider is secretly helping you along) destroy a large robot and then get in a hand to hand fight with a close friend/mentor/relative? (btw, this has been going on since the first MG, so that is 5 games).



Which should be a normal thing. Do you have a cat's abillity to see in pitch black darkness?


This is a big one people miss. TV's have a natural inability to display the variety of shading that a normal scene has. This is why they had to put the slider for how visible you were on there. A player might be able to clearly see himself, but that enemy is somebody who just walked into a pitch black room and can't see his hand in front of his face.




yes, and yet the colorful box that keeps moving around is never noticed... Man, if SWAT teams were really like that, hostages would kill themselves... Great AI there.

1st off, obviously, the fact that overequipped swat teams show up tells you that MGS has more of an action bent than pure stealth. 2nd, the enemies in SC also have shotguns, grenades etc, except they kill in just a couple of bullets. They don't need a whole swat team. That comment alone makes me wonder whether you've ever played an SC game.
Also, since Chaos Theory (SC 3) enemies have had search lights and flares, as well as a propensity to call back up while they search for you. Again makes me wonder whether all of your heavily opinionated, and very aggressive comments are based on SC 1.
Cause if you want to go that route, we can dig out MGS 1 or even the older NES MGs and see how they hold up...


Yeah, I always thought it was odd that a swat team of 4 people can show up, Snake can kill them, and the bad guys simply send another single team the next time. You would think if they had the hundreds of soldiers they appear to that they would simply find snake and have 20-30 people running snake into a corner and killing him.

Also, how many times does snake have to be hit with a shotgun to die? I always found it easier to run and gun in MGS than SC.

pascale
05-06-2007, 23:03
Also, how many times does snake have to be hit with a shotgun to die? I always found it easier to run and gun in MGS than SC.

Exactly, that's because MGS is about Tactical stealth ACTION. It isn't about espionage. Running jumping shooting are integral parts of the gameplay, because the game has action moments. Your character has to survive violent encounters.

In Sc, if you've been found out, you've already lost. Just surviving isn't enough, because you are putting the US's diplomatic relations in jeoperdy by being seen. So it doesn't make sense (and isn't in the realistic vein of the series) to be able to withstand a straight shotgun shot... The fact that a gun went off is already a failure...

Kingofallpie
05-07-2007, 00:38
Again, why does he look Iraqi?

What? There are no eye-rayquees here, only us Iraqis...

Looks great. Departure from the stealth motif, hopefully a good one.

Blu-Ray
05-07-2007, 00:40
I like the new direction Ubisoft is taking with this game. Just how I like it.

No offense, but doesn't Sam look Emo to you?

MiNiMaL_sAnItY
05-07-2007, 00:42
Sam looks nice, cant wait for new info to arrive.

Ishimaru Kaito
05-07-2007, 00:44
is that SAm or someone else

Omar
05-07-2007, 00:55
Wow where should I start, your religious ignorance (that had nothing to do with this discussion and should've kept outside) or your constant babble that have nothing to do with what I said...or your personal attacks.

Let's start with SC's cliche storyline. Where have we seen games with these kinds of storyline...OH I DONNO, try Rainbow six 1, 2, 3 and the new las vegas one. That's just one series that had already done everything they could to make the series long. Most of the storyline in SC isn't even related to one another, it's just a bunch of different missions piled together. The only thing they've done as far as story goes, is how circumstances have changed for Sam over the years or some bullcrap that nobody cares about. Oh yea he went to jail, so badass. Now he's a hobo, no way. Next, he'll be the alcoholic ex-agent who kicked some fat dude's ass on jerry springer. Other than this, they have nothing else going for its story.

Let's talk about your babble: I didn't get this part of your reply.

I said: "I'm talking about the gameplay and how the games play...which is what I'm going to talk about below." Which was a response to your earlier post when you mistook my words, thinking that i was talking about the storyline...when i was talking about the gameplay and you replied to my quote with this:

"You do realize that while both games have 'stealth' in the title, both also aim at a different sort of stealth?"

What? :confused: I was talking about MGS2 not sucking as a game like Halo 2 did, even if the endings of both games were bad...I guess you're not following the posts. Read before you reply. I'm sure you know how to read.


Which should be a normal thing. Do you have a cat's abillity to see in pitch black darkness?
Now, if you play the game on easy, for sure it's a cake walk. But I can assure you that SC takes skill unless you are an Uber-gamer, and therefore most games are cakewalks.
I've thoroughly played both series, and can assure you that when it comes to stealth, there is little difference in the games.
Now where the gameplay differs is in Bosses. To whit, SC doesn't really have any, whereas MGS eventually forces you into an action game situation where stealth isn't an option and you need to jump, hop and roll yourself into combat.
That's why MGS is a TACTICAL stealth game, more about all out action, and SC is more of an espionage stealth game, where information and accessing it without leaving a trace is more important.
Again, not that one is better than the other, but that they are aiming for different things.I have already explained why SC is stupid when it comes to stealth...it's the same thing on hard, doesn't change. I don't play games on easy. I never said they're aiming for the same thing, I'm saying that SC is crap at what it tries to do. I'm guessing that's the same way it was in the recent SC.


Okay, your tastes are not only different but intolerant. Please don't pretend to talk for other people, and accuse me of tricking people. If you have so much pent up aggressivity, take up boxing or something. Don't take it out passively on people who disagree with you on forums.
PS:And for Gd's sake, please be civil...Nobody needs your Wahhabist/Salafist interpretation of videogames...If you are going to claim the name of one of Islam's gnostic traditions, do it a favor by putting down your aggressivity and using your mind...but then perhaps you don't know of what you speak?Irony. You speak of aggression that I have pent up when I'm just speaking my mind, like I always do, and then you tell me to be civil by not giving a wahhabist/salafist reference? Someone needs to take both world religion's class and sociology 101. Just because I chose the name sufi, doesn't mean that I follow that tradition and I sure as hell don't have to follow something someone else tells me or how to do it...on a forum...

Why I chose the name and my personal religion should not be any of your business.


And you realize that has nothing to do with AI, but with the programing of different ways of interacting with said enemy? You can have a game with extremely deep AI and yet only 1 way of killing the enemy...Which games are you talking about here? I mean, to be credible you should give us an example, remember?


And MGS has thousands of enemies on screen, right? Rubbish.
And the rest is just bulloney too. There are so many ways of taking enemies out that I have yet to replay a level of any SC the same way. The variety of weapons and there modification ensure this on a purely brutal level, not to mention the incredible gadgets on hand. In fact, SC has been at the forefront of adding ways of taking out enemies from stealth perspective. You can trick enemies into coming to you with knocks, whistles and thrown objects. You can take them hostage and use them as human shields and human keycards, not to mention get info from them. You can knock'em out or kill them, and place bodies to set traps. You can strangle or kill by hanging from your legs or pull enemies down from ledges. hell, you can use your sticky cams to poison people, you can use water as a conductor to sticky shock groups of people, etc etc etc.
And naturally, NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE REQUIRED, BECAUSE THAT WOULD LEAVE YOU WITH NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER.MGS3 does almost all of that (has more gadgets, even if different, to kill as well) but does other things more. It's not limited by area, it has open environments. You can hit an enemy's leg and make them limp to you, you can hit their right hand so they can't shoot you, take out everyone's radio by a stealth gun so they can't call support if you're caught. You can use them as hostages as well as get information out of them as well. You are probably comparing it to the newest SC as well, which would be unfair but who cares because the new SC wasn't next-gen in gameplay from what I've seen.

And you're wrong about those things not being required because there was a mission in SC2 where you had to ask for information from an enemy to pass the thing...in fact, i remember several missions where you had to interrogate the boss or the enemy. Last but not least, calm down, you're telling me to be civil and then you write the whole sentence with caps lock on.


Perhaps you missed the part where killing people is actually a bad thing? That unlike MGS, SC is a game where being able to complete the game without ever taking anyone out and still not being detected is actually a proof of skill?
As for hitting the enemy and acting like nothing happened........what game are you playing?I am talking about SC, you can actually hit an enemy, the enemy will be alert and start searching for you, he will miraculously goto where you were at (even though he couldn't have seen where the suppressed shot came from), but for SOME reason, he knows exactly where you would be when the bullet was shot. You can literally walk around him being about 5 feet away from him and let him search the area, keep walking around and trying to avoid him and eventually he'll go back to his spot, no backup, no extensive search. Oh yea, it was just a suppressed shot to the shoulder, no biggie. Yes it is that stupid.

Here's a snippet from Double agent's AI...apparently the same **** that was seen from the Xbox installments back in the day:


The AI isn't perfect by any means. The general rule in Double Agent is that if you're in the shadows, you can't be seen. The rule is enforced strictly as long as enemies aren't alerted, and the result is easily exploited with all sorts of silly examples. For instance, I once hid in a restricted area right beside the empty chair of a guard -- which, it just so happens, was in the shadows. I quickly realized he was walking toward me for a reason. I was inches from his chair. So I did nothing. He sat down inches from me, chilled out, got back up and walked away. He never noticed me. I might as well have been giving him a massage and he would have been oblivious. Another situation was designed to force the issue. In the third JBA HQ mission, you must check the monitor screen in a highly secure, tightly-quartered office packed with three guys. The game makes you sneak up to a computer terminal that's literally four feet from an enemy at the same terminal, hack it for a few minutes, and sneak away. This assumes the guy doesn't notice the obvious movement right next to him, the sound of a keyboard clicking away, or the beeping of cracked encryptions.Here's a quote from IGN on this regard, which they apparently fixed in the recent SC but a little too late. This should've been there from the beginning:
There weren't too many NPCs on screen and you could, more often than not, sprint through the levels shooting, stabbing, and punching enemy losers without much thought. Wow that sounds a bit familiar doesn't it? (Hint: exactly the things that I was talking about, that you apparently DENY, which proves that you not only LIED to my face but tried to make other people think that I was wrong) I guess you must've been a newb if you couldn't see those issues.


yes, and yet the colorful box that keeps moving around is never noticed... Man, if SWAT teams were really like that, hostages would kill themselves... Great AI there.errr, what are you talking about? The box that you get in that game, you never get away with it, they always come to it if they see it and then kick the box open or just take it off. Nice try though, I've played the game.


Also, since Chaos Theory (SC 3) enemies have had search lights and flares, as well as a propensity to call back up while they search for you. Again makes me wonder whether all of your heavily opinionated, and very aggressive comments are based on SC 1.
Cause if you want to go that route, we can dig out MGS 1 or even the older NES MGs and see how they hold up...See, there's a flaw in your argument there. I am comparing MGS2 and 3 with SC 1 and 2 because they were made on a console that was "relatively" the same. If you want to add SC3's stuff then why not compare them with MGS4? If you want to compare their gameplay then we'll have to compare everything. I don't think you wanna go down that road...well we can't really go down that road yet because the gameplay hasn't fully be shown yet for MGS4 but soon we'll find out. Then we can compare this new SC with it.


Not only do the control schemes, reactivity and perspectives of those games make them anything but realistic, but if what you say were true then you would have no problem with SC>it's multiplayer aspect, even as spies, requires one to know how to use the guns effectively, and it shares a lot with GRAW. If you can't do it, but I can, that just proves that its about practice. Every game has a different feel.I'm not talking about the multiplayer.


Is it now? how do you explain people getting headshots while their targets are zipping down cables? Or while the targets are running while you are hanging UPSIDE DOWN three floor above? I've managed all these things. The fact that you can't is your problem, not the game's.
Every game has its own formula to make it work. If up close and intense is what Ubi had planned for the game, as you seem to be assuming, then that's what CAN work for SC (but I already know that long range also works and is freaking deadly).Trust me, I have done that too but it gets annoying at times. I know how to kill people that are zipping by, I practice those things in every realistic shooting game. The problem that I'm talking about is this, the aiming system that was in SC2 and 3 was bad because it was unpredictable. Every game has a learning curve in its aiming system. Once you realize how the game does it, you can do it again and again and you can master it eventually. In SC, they kept it inaccurate even if you're shooting at one spot from 10 feet away without moving the gun, check it yourself. Look at the bullet holes. Now I'm not saying that it should be at the exact same spot but you should be able to shoot a standing person from 20 feet away with pinpoint accuracy with a pistol. You can't always do that in SC, it's not skill, it's how the aiming system was made so that it's always varied.


Well, other than the fact that accurately counting yards in a videogame is very hard, nothing stops you from doing the same in SC. In fact, headshots are not only the most enjoyable, but the most common type of death you can deal, especially from afar.150 yards is an understatement. I guess you didn't play the sniping game with the boss named "The End" in MGS3. SC's aiming is not as enjoyable or realistic as it is in MGS3. It would take a long time for Sam to hit someone pinpoint with a high probability at 150 yards. His scope moves too damn much and he apparently can't lie down >_>


Um... I don't even want to dignify this hypothetical with a response...Let me dignify it for you: Snake would kill Sam's hobo ass :D


Well, if you read correctly, you will see I said serieS. Kojima has one. You were talking about Ubi's limitations, and they have delivered far more original blockbusters than Kojima or Konami.
If you need to look it up, you will notice that overall SC has garnered more awards, for graphics obviously, but also for gameplay, both for the Single player games, but especially for its multiplayer experience.
The fact that you failed to recognise the incredible innovation in Multiplayer gameplay just shows how little you know of the SC games, and why I felt a multi-volume rebuttal was necessary to your comment about "no innovation ever came out of SC except over the should cam"...Umm, I was talking about UBIsoft's limitation when regarding the SC series. I like other games that they make...just not this. You misunderstood me. SC1 and 2 had a decent gameplay but the gameplay did not touch MGS's series, it was primarily popular for its graphics (especially its light/shadows techniques). Now I know you're going to say, well, I was talking about the recent SC's AI, I'm sure they've fixed some of the issues but I have a good guess it is pretty much the same thing except just a bit better, nothing next-gen...nothing comparable to MGS4. In fact, quote me on this later but I believe this new SC will probably not touch MGS4's gameplay either. I have full confidence in Kojima that he is going to show us what next-gen stealth is all about. Case Closed.

Bakari
05-07-2007, 02:20
For gods sake man, is that your Masters' Thesis haha?

NovemberMike
05-07-2007, 03:10
Sufi, have you ever played SC3? Because you said that it was on the Xbox and PS2 (not the 360 as you seem to think) and was generally considered the best game in the series and the one most people would put up against MGS.

Also, I don't get why you keep on complaining about the accuracy. Headshots are relatively hard to get if you are just aiming quickly (but perfectly possible with a little practice) but a three round burst to the chest will take out pretty much anybody and is very quiet. Also, with the complaint about the enemy finding you when you miss, where you using the assault rifle or the pistol? Because the assault rifle is still firing a supersonic round and makes more noise than the pistol which could be what you are noticing.

Stewie Skywalker
05-07-2007, 03:21
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory was amazing I love that game, but I still think MGS3 wipes the floor with it. Oh and stating that something is future proof retains to hardware most of the time not software.

Knuckles126
05-07-2007, 04:04
I'm future proof... :D

.........

pascale
05-07-2007, 19:07
Sufi, all my comments are based on the Xbox 1 SCs, I've yet to play the 360 versions...

I'll answer the rest later when I have more time...

panson feo
05-07-2007, 19:13
Sufi sure loves to type. Holy crap!

Omar
05-08-2007, 02:29
Sufi sure loves to type. Holy crap!

Were you blindfolded when pascale responded me with a page long reply? I'm only replying what he said...and yea I had to take a lot of time out to reply but I always do.