View Full Version : New Microsoft patent, Xenon related?
- - Microsoft Patent (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=11&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=gpu&OS=gpu&RS=gpu) - -
comments? I havenít read much of it yet (patents are very long) and so will reserve any comments till i read a bit more
but your all free to discuss
Having read about 1/3rd of the patent you linked to, I am pretty confident that this is one of the things that I have been refering to when I mentioned that MS didn't just take off the shelf hardware and slap it together for Xbox2.
This also shows where they are going to utilize software to help improve the efficency of well designed hardware.
A rough (very very rough) explanation of this.
Game developers can now see a CPU core as nothing more than an extension of power from the GPU. They will be able to seemlessly have the CPU handling large quanities of geometry generation while the GPU handles the high level graphics work.
You can hit your CPU with some complex argorithims that take up miniscule amounts of memory but can generate completely unique textures for common objects like wood, marble, leaves, grass, ect. Then, since the GPU and CPU are linked using a innovative bus and shared cache system, the GPU will just think it is rendering a single polygon for an object and slap a texture on it. Meanwhile the CPU generates individual geometric models for each item and shows those to the user.
Game developers have tried to offload Geometric calculations to the CPU for a long time. This is one of the ways that some developers have managed to get improvements in graphics on the original Xbox over the 1st generation titles. The problem is that current methods require an enormous amount of bus bandwidth as both the CPU and GPU are slamming the System memory, and require a lot of syncing code and double rendering.
Using this kind of hardware innovation, combined with software that easily exposes it to game developers, they won't even have to act like they are offloading the work in a lot of cases. The tools will intelligently offload it for them, and they will be able to just monitor individual chip performance metrics. If they disagree with how the tools automatically devided the work, they can go in and tweak.
Wow...that all sounds very promising :) I enjoy all of these new, innovative ways of programming, like Unreal did with their UE3.0.
Anyone have the summarized version?
That's too long for me.
its a patent, of course its very long
and i think what Siren said is pretty much the best thing your going to get if your looking for something shorter
Sounds very interesting. So the patent applies to both a certain hardware structure and the software to govern it?
Seems that Microsoft has been working hard to provide a viable gaming platform for the next generation.
Nice to see that they are innovating. I really hope all this research and development of new technology pays off -
we should keep in mind that the XBox was able to provide better graphics than the PS2 although it was a much less complicated architecture.
The Xenon/PS3 generation seems to be shaping up to be a battle between new methods of processing and rendering.
Whoever wins might end up paving the way to the future of computing.
EDIT: This actually reminds me of a piece a software I heard about a while back, which in effect converts a graphics card into a sound card
by changing the audio information you want to process into information that the graphics card can calculate.
This makes for quite a boost in processing performance when using an audio application.
People who create music on their PCs can now do so by way of their high-end graphics card.
I don't know if this analogy is valid, but it just came to mind.
Even with these innovations I expect that the PS3 will be able to produce better graphics than the Xbox2. This is for a couple of reasons, not of the least of which will be the total amount of Ram in the system (though things like this patent will go a long way to reducing the need for Ram).
What I question is if developers will be able to effectively utilize the raw power of the PS3 to produce better graphics than they can on the Xbox2.
Another patent related to hardware accelerated AA
Another Patent [Click Me] (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220040263516%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20040263516&RS=DN/20040263516)
I see where the rumor/leak of three processors or triple core comes from. The diagram has three boxes for CPUs, but it's labeled as 1, 2,...N. In other words,
there can be two or more CPU cores on the CPU module. But by just glancing at the diagram, one might think there must be three CPUs.
Each core has its own L1 cache and can handle two threads. The L2 cache is shared.
The CPU interfaces with the GPU, and the GPU interfaces with memory. The CPU also has the interface to I/O module.
When should I have it ready for posting live?
ps3 Wanna be
Early next week?
Lets post it live on Monday. I will get everything ready
PS3Land Interviews IDV Inc. | SpeedTree
By: Justin Pinter
Recently I had a chance to to interview Kevin Meredith, Director of Business Development at IDV INC. and SpeedTree. Basically the interview went over some of the things that SpeeTree offers for next gen development and what to expect to see in the future.
If you dont know what SpeedTree is then your in luck because this interview will provide information about the tool and all the games you will find it in.
PS3Land: How long has SpeedTree been in development?
Kevin: The development efforts that served as the foundational technology
for SpeedTree were undertaken for a real-time golf course concept in 2001, and we sold our first SpeedTreeRT licenses at the end of 2002.
PS3Land: How does Speed Tree work, what is it?
Kevin: SpeedTree is a suite of virtual tree and plant software, including
creation tools, plug-ins for 3ds max and Maya, and a real-time rendering
SDK. The award-winning package features realistic wind effects, outstanding aesthetics, many user-configurable settings, and efficiency technologies throughout the line.
PS3Land: How many different models of trees can speed tree provide. Will we see repetitive models of trees?
Kevin: Almost 200 species of trees, plants, flowers, underwater flora etc.
have been created for the SpeedTree library so far, and each of the species definitions are "seeds" that can be used to instantly create millions of variations. Customers can use SpeedTreeCAD to edit the existing species or create an unlimited number of new plants from scratch. So repetition among the many titles featuring SpeedTree is quite unlikely.
PS3Land: In what ways does speedtree improve gameplay, directly or indirectly?
Kevin: Play is improved aesthetically because SpeedTree looks and behaves more realistically than any other solution at comparable polygon budgets, while the fullness and wind effects create line of sight barriers and
environmental distractions that can add immeasurably to game play. These
features are so realistic, in fact, that the software has been used in numerous "serious" applications, such as military simulations, helicopter
training systems etc.
PS3Land: Does the prossesing power of the next gen consoles (in particular the ps3) help speedtree run massive forests and other speedtree objects?
Kevin: Yes, PS3 and other next generation platforms enable SpeedTree to
deliver a new level of realism, beauty and foliage density to real-time
gaming. In particular with next generation consoles, each tree model can
have more texture layers, longer shaders, and more dynamic effects.
PS3Land: One of the latest games that used speed tree was Oblivion, what other games in the future might we expect to have SpeedTree in?
Kevin: SpeedTree is in many PS3 titles that have yet to be announced, but
you'll see a long list of customers and projects, many of them still in
development, in the "Who's Using SpeedTree?" section at www.speedtree.com (http://www.speedtree.com) (some companies that have signed to use SpeedTree include; 10tacle Studios, Atari, Bethesda Softworks, Bizarre Creations, Insomniac Games, KOEI Canada, Midway, Mythic Entertainment, Real Time Worlds, SEGA, Silicon Knights, Ubisoft, Vivendi Universal, and Volition / THQ)
PS3Land: What does SpeedTree have over common tree creation tools?
Kevin: Like most tree creation tools, SpeedTree has a procedural modeling
application that allows artists to make trees (we think ours is the best, of
course). But what sets us apart is our SDK and real-time rendering
techniques that facilitate tree rendering at run-time. Each tool in our
pipeline is geared toward not only modeling trees but also rendering them in the most efficient manner possible. This combination has led to tremendous respect from game developers around the world, the industry's highest recognition in the form of a Front Line Award for middleware (2005), and an unmatched customer list.
PS3Land: Are speedtree tree's destructable? If not, do you plan to make them destructable in a future version? Any upcoming games that would use destructable trees?
Kevin: Because the run-time component of SpeedTree is a numeric engine,
developers are free to do with the tree data what they wish. This includes
any number of custom effects like knocking them down and blowing them up. Rather than embed our version of destruction in SpeedTree, we leave that choice to the developers so that the tree's behavior meshes with the game experience.
PS3Land: With next gen consoles are you able to run an entire environment in one, continuous, streaming world? If not, how is the world set up?
Kevin: How the levels of a game are set up is up to the developers, but
SpeedTree is compatible with any approach.
PS3Land: Are game developers able to add their own textures to the tree creation to create more realistic trees or for example "alien" trees?
Kevin: Absolutely. The Windows-based SpeedTreeCAD application enables users
to import textures and vary countless other parameters to get exactly the
look they want, whether an earthly species or something more exotic. To
demonstrate this versatility, IDV has included some very bizarre "species"
in the library. Many of them are visible at http://www.speedtree.com/tree_browser/index.htm.
PS3Land: I see you are currently licensing to the Unreal Engine 3.0, are there any other game engines or companies you license too?
Kevin: We have established both formal and informal partnerships with many engine developers, including Epic Games, Emergent, BigWorld, Trinigy and Multiverse. Look for more partnership announcements soon, but in the meantime, many SpeedTree users have completed their own integrations of SpeedTree into dozens of in-house and commercial game development tools.
PS3Land: Can your trees react to the environment, example: wind, shadowing, impacts, ect.?
Kevin: SpeedTree's ability to respond to such local events as helicopter
rotor wash, for example, have made the software a key feature of an Army helicopter training system. There are also impressive lighting options. But because SpeedTree includes an SDK, the behavior of the foliage is ultimately under the control of the developer.
PS3Land: Are you looking forward to the launch of the PS3?
Kevin: Indeed! We can't say too much at this point, but there are going to
be some great-looking forests on that console.
PS3Land: What are some of the best features that everyone should know about SpeedTree?
Kevin: Outstanding realism and efficiency, amazing wind effects, a
real-time SDK and a versatile and the simple to use tree modeling application.
PS3Land: If there is anything else you would like to add about SpeedTree or PS3 developments feel free to write here:
Kevin: We hope the industry-wide adoption of SpeedTreeRT speaks for itself. Thanks very much for the great questions!
We here at PS3Land would like to thank Kevin Meredith once again for sharing his expertise and providing insight into SpeedTree.
Here are some media of SpeedTree in use:
images I uploaded on server as SpeedTree_Interview
http://www.speedtree.com/downloads/movi ... 3_15MB.avi (http://www.speedtree.com/downloads/movies/games/Gothic3_15MB.avi)
http://streamingmovies.gamespy.com/xbox ... ghwide.wmv (http://streamingmovies.gamespy.com/xbox/article/658/658152/pgr3X05_101205_wmvhighwide.wmv)
http://www.bethsoft.com/downloads/video ... rSmall.wmv (http://www.bethsoft.com/downloads/video/OblivionTrailerSmall.wmv)
ps3 Wanna be
We're leaving this till tomorrow right?
ps3 Wanna be
Sorry got a bit tied up. I'll try to get it up within the next hour.
ps3 Wanna be
Cool interview Justin!
I put Coming Soon for videos because I'm in the process of downloading and uploading them.