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Aquanox
06-21-2007, 21:24
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5436/humanuv1.jpg


Video Games: The Eighth Art - Blog #34

Barry Keith Grant,
Professor of Film Studies

In the previous blog, John Mitterer cognitive psychologist at Brock University, discussed the recent conference at Brock University – Interacting with Immersive Worlds. He used the metaphor of alchemy to describe the way academics and designers banded together at the conference to discuss video games. Perhaps the most daring of the alchemists to speak was Denis Dyack, president of Silicon Knights, who delivered the fourth and final keynote. Denis’ presentation was titled “Video Games: The Eighth Art.” Denis’ presentation, in essence, outlined why video games should be viewed as art and have the potential to transmute mere entertainment into an actual art form.

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/798/798146/too-human-20070620043224591-000.jpg (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/748/748783/img_4640814.html)

As Denis explained, Italian writer Ricciotto Canudo (1879-1923), who is considered the first theorist of film, considered cinema to be the "the Seventh Art." As Canudo argued in his manifesto “The Birth of the Sixth Art” (1911), cinema was "plastic art in motion." He understood that film incorporated the distinctive elements of both the spatial arts (architecture, sculpture, and painting) with the temporal arts (music and dance).He later added poetry to the list in his 1923 better-known manifesto “Reflections on The Seventh Art”.

In the 1920s and for some time thereafter, it was common to hear movies referred to as "the seventh art." Today, almost 100 years after Canudo wrote his manifesto, video games have now become part of the “new art” discussion, i.e. the eighth art, and employ the elements of film, but add another new and crucial aspect – interactivity. Canudo understood early on how cinema, the medium of the 20th century, was a site of artistic convergence in its synthesis of the other arts. For Denis, video games mark a new site of convergence, one comparable to cinema. Video games are truly characteristic of our new century, in that they involve the audience through interactivity.

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/798/798146/too-human-20070620043226029-000.jpg (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/748/748783/img_4640815.html)

Keeping with this theme, Denis’ talk was an example of convergence in practice, as it was a collaborative presentation between Denis, John Mitterer and myself. We demonstrated during our presentation what disciplines, such as psychology and film studies, can bring to game design.

For my part, being a professor of Film Studies, I discussed some similarities and correspondences between film and video games. Yes, video games, like cinema before them, synthesize elements from the other arts, but there are other analogies between the two media. For example, apart from avant-gardes like Canudo, movies in their infancy (like photography before it) were not considered art. Like video games, cinema began as a popular entertainment, and the form was tainted by its very popularity, or low-brow cultural status. "Serious" actors (actors trained for the stage) disdained working in movies, because it wasn’t considered "real" acting, i.e. their performances could be built in bits, through editing. In film, “serious” actors were under the impression that they did not have to "act," but merely be in front of the camera. Although this attitude no longer holds, it is still the common view about synthespian performance in film now, like that of Andy Serkis in Peter Jackson’s King Kong (2005) (http://www.amazon.com/King-Kong-Widescreen-Adrien-Brody/dp/B00005JO20/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/102-7359256-5583349?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182432459&sr=1-2).

Early cinema was content to show movement, no matter what it was. Around the turn of the century, early films by the Lumiere brothers had titles like Train Entering a Station, Boat Leaving the Dock, and Feeding the Baby. Movies were at first motivated by spectacle alone. For this reason, historian Tom Gunning calls early film a "cinema of attractions." But as audiences became familiar with moving pictures, more than movement was needed, and so movies began to concentrate more on content, on story and character. Similarly, video games now are seeking to move beyond just good graphics and the mere capability of interactivity, to content-driven games, where story is important and integral to gameplay.

Until the late 1930s, Hollywood acknowledged the art director, who was responsible for set design and perhaps set decoration, as the artist. However, with David O. Selznick , who coined the term "production designer" to describe the contributions of William Cameron Menzies on Gone with the Wind in 1939 , an additional artistry type was born into cinema. Today the production designer is the person responsible for bringing together into a unified visual all of the elements of set design and decoration, as well as costuming and even makeup. For Denis, a good game designer does essentially the same thing.

One might also point to the comparisons between the formal study of cinema and the study of video games. Thirty years ago, film studies, like gaming now, was viewed with suspicion as a viable academic discipline, much like other new disciplines in the past such as sociology, or even psychology. Film studies took textual analysis and interpretation from English – ideas about mise-en-scene and performance from the theater; the concept of iconography from art history; and theoretical paradigms borrowed from psychology, anthropology, linguistics, folklore, semiotics, and structuralism.

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/798/798146/too-human-20070620043223513-000.jpg (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/748/748783/img_4640813.html)

Interestingly, university film studies departments, which forward-thinking academics fought for in the 1970s, are today being folded into or absorbed by new academic departments with names like screen studies, moving image studies, and film and new media. Significantly, a few years ago the Society for Cinema Studies (SCS), the main North American scholarly association for the study of film, changed its name (amid considerable controversy) to the Society for Cinema and Media Studies (SCMS). As gaming grows in recognition and takes its place as a legitimate form of art, "new media" is a Borg-like concept that will engulf the preceding field of film studies, just as video games themselves supercede cinema.

In his famous book, “The Medium is the Massage” (published in 1967) (http://www.amazon.com/Medium-Massage-Marshall-McLuhan/dp/1584230703/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-7359256-5583349?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182432649&sr=8-1), Canadian media visionary Marshall McLuhan observed, "We look at the present through a rear-view mirror. We march backwards into the future." In other words, new technological forms always begin by looking to the techniques and paradigms of earlier forms. This is as true for video games as it is for other media, including cinema, which began by attempting to reproduce the perspective of a spectator at the theater during a play before discovering the possibilities of editing within a scene. Thus video games may use the language of cinema – a visual language with which everyone has become familiar. Silicon Knights’ forthcoming “Too Human” video game, for the Xbox 360 console for example, makes sophisticated use of subjective camera techniques and other aspects of film style, such as rack focus. However, as video games are viewed more and more as an art form, they will develop their own language of which cinema will be only a part. Again, “Too Human,” with its seamless flow between cinematics and gameplay points toward this new language.

Someone once asked science-fiction writer Theodore Sturgeon (who wrote several Star Trek episodes, including the famous "Amok Time" that introduced the Vulcan mating ritual) how he could defend science fiction as 90-percent of it was crap. Sturgeon responded that 90-percent of everything is crap, but that the remaining 10-percent may be great. This has since become known as "Sturgeon’s Law," and it applies to video games as well. For despite the number of inferior games out there, it is the other 10-percent of, including games like “Eternal Darkness” and “Too Human” that are attaining the stature of art.
I'm getting dizzy with all these great games :no

Bakari
06-21-2007, 21:29
I have been a fan of Too Human from day one, seems to be very ambitious. Hopefully their not trying to do to much.

Versa
06-21-2007, 21:38
All I want is a July release...

Theft
06-21-2007, 21:39
I have been a fan of Too Human from day one, seems to be very ambitious. Hopefully their not trying to do to much.

I agree Bakari, while a lot of ideas are good for a game, too many ideas are bad. My prime example is Black and White. Lot's of great ideas, but didn't implement them all.

Two4DaMoney
06-21-2007, 23:11
Are all the enemies in this game robots/drones?

Aquanox
06-21-2007, 23:19
Are all the enemies in this game robots/drones?

How would anyone know?

They have only revealed a small part of the game.

Bakari
06-21-2007, 23:24
Are all the enemies in this game robots/drones?

In a sense, yes. Robots in human form (The gods) as well. Also there are "cyber" worlds as well, so who knows what kinds of enemies will be found in those.

Makagoto2
06-21-2007, 23:38
Are all the enemies in this game robots/drones?


i think this would be too linear for sk, if blood omen is an indication then we will maybe see robots as the first enemies until you become yourself a mashine that is fighting humans, all of this embedded in a compelling storyline and in the end you won't know if you are a mashine or the one you fight is one. i could be totally wrong though ...

Versa
06-21-2007, 23:40
I read the blog properly... the eighth art, I like it and agree. Kind of spits at Kojima's ' video games aren't art ', though.

Outrage
06-22-2007, 00:14
This game is extremely ambitious. I'm still floored that it has a 80-100 million dollar budget per episode. That's a ridiculous amount of money.

Blu-Ray
06-22-2007, 00:19
This game actually looks awesome to me! I like the character designs.

Knuckles126
06-22-2007, 00:25
The character looks like he's constipated... :lol:

Ric998
06-22-2007, 00:30
^^lol

Looks awesome, can't wait for more info!

Fedos
06-22-2007, 00:36
I too have been a Too Human fan since its inception. I'm hoping that it goes on to be not only a critical success, but a commerical one as well.


This game is extremely ambitious. I'm still floored that it has a 80-100 million dollar budget per episode. That's a ridiculous amount of money.

That 80-100 million dollar figure almost has to include marketing, I'd be floored if they (MS) was spending say at the very least 30 million dollars to make this game:shock:

Knuckles126
06-22-2007, 00:42
Apparently Xbox 360 power supply units are eatable... :lol:

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3750/pic3hx6.jpg

Outrage
06-22-2007, 00:49
If there is one thing I applaud MS on, it's that they are giving developers the ability to create their "dream" games. Too Human and Infinite Undiscovery are testament to this. I think this is a smart approach because if there is one thing the Xbox needs, it's to establish a variety of series with a strong following. Currently, only Halo fills this gap when compared to well-respected series such as Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Mario, and Zelda. I think we will see new ones added to this list over the years on the Xbox side.

X2
06-22-2007, 01:23
This game is extremely ambitious. I'm still floored that it has a 80-100 million dollar budget per episode. That's a ridiculous amount of money.

Are you serious?:shock: Link Please

Knuckles126
06-22-2007, 01:26
That 80-100 million dollar figure almost has to include marketing, I'd be floored if they (MS) was spending say at the very least 30 million dollars to make this game
Why such a large sum of money for a video game? :?

Bakari
06-22-2007, 01:31
Why such a large sum of money for a video game? :?

That sum actually includes the whole series since the game is a trilogy.


If there is one thing I applaud MS on, it's that they are giving developers the ability to create their "dream" games. Too Human and Infinite Undiscovery are testament to this. I think this is a smart approach because if there is one thing the Xbox needs, it's to establish a variety of series with a strong following. Currently, only Halo fills this gap when compared to well-respected series such as Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Mario, and Zelda. I think we will see new ones added to this list over the years on the Xbox side.

Yeah it is a very good stance to take, although it is equally as risky. Another game that fits in this mold is Sakaguchi's upcoming Cry On, which is actually my most anticipated game coming from him out of his announced lineup. Just seems very different and awesome.

Tropical Budz
06-22-2007, 02:19
I can't wait to see how this game turns out when it's completed. I think I'll end up buying this.

immortal
06-22-2007, 02:21
This game just doesn't seem appealing to me any more, after that lousy first showing. Though i have a feeling it will prove me wrong.

Outrage
06-22-2007, 02:22
Taken from "The Monster Within" article from thestar.com



Denis Dyack shifts from foot to foot, fidgeting, restless. Today's the day.

"This is our most precious project," says Dyack, a thickset, cheery 39-year-old with close-cropped hair, as he looks out on the half-filled theatre he just happens to own. "We've been working on it for so many years. I just hope you like what you see."

Up to now, Dyack's delivery - a preliminary presentation of Too Human, the blockbuster-destined video game he's been working on, give or take, for the past decade - has been snappy, rapid-fire, breezy and composed.
But now, looking out on the few dozen media from as far away as Belgium, France, Spain, Germany, Sweden and Japan that have come here, to his studio, for just this occasion, he slows, perhaps, to savour the moment.
After all, it's been a long time coming. Dyack's company Silicon Knights was born in 1992, when Dyack was a master's candidate in computer science at Guelph University. The concept for Too Human, Dyack's pet project, emerged just a year later. And then, for 11 years, it waited, standing on the threshold between concept and reality.

In the process, it became a game world legend as potent as the Norse mythology that inspired it.
Which makes its ultimate arrival all the more sweet. Two years ago, Microsoft, in the throes of development for its advanced Xbox 360 system, came looking for an anchor title for the new console - something that would have impact and presence, a game that would push their ambitions for game world dominance forward.
Too Human was it, so much so that they committed not to just one game, but a trilogy.

This is no small deal, and nor is the intended impact. He wouldn't disclose budgets, but John Dongelmans, Microsoft's product manager for games, left little doubt as to its role.

"This trilogy is super-important to us," Dongelmans explained last week at Silicon Knights. "It's a huge vision, and we're going to support it all the way."

What's more, the trilogy will be released as an exclusive, which means if Too Human breaks big, Sony Playstation gamers - who outnumber Xbox owners four to one - will have to buy an Xbox 360 just to play it.
"I can't talk about specifics, but we have a broadening strategy here," said Dongelmans, who flew in for the day from Seattle. "We really believe this will appeal to a broader demographic."

Dongelmans is talking about gaming's final frontier - that vast constituency of the non-gaming public who still see the medium as fringe, juvenile or just plain strange. True mainstream appeal, on the scale of television or movies, has been a long-stated goal for the gaming industry, and with good reason.

"Sure, it's a holy grail - a holy grail filled with cash," laughed Dave Kosak, the executive editor of Gamespy.com, a popular online gaming magazine.

It has to be. As games have become more complex, and the industry more intensely hit-driven, the stakes have climbed.

Just a few years ago, blockbuster games were reputed to cost up to $10 million to make. Today, Kosak says, the cost for a single next-generation title - like Too Human - runs between $80 and $100 million. Which means mass appeal is no longer just a goal, it's a necessity. But it is by no means easy. The game industry loves to tout the notion that its $10 billion-plus annual revenues have surpassed those of the movie industry. But what it hasn't done, Kosak says, is penetrate the mainstream consciousness.

"If you compare the type of game experiences you can get today, it's a lot deeper, a lot more emotionally involved, than even a few years ago," he said. "But I don't think the audience has really changed. It hasn't broken out there. That's where they're trying to go now."

No question, Too Human is geared to be a major hit. But it's a hit of a different kind. When asked if he feels the series is being positioned by Microsoft to be its next Halo - the wildly successful alien splatterfest Xbox exclusive that put the console on the map - Dyack looks a little hurt, almost insulted.

"I'd hate for it to be described as the next Halo. We're a completely different game," he said. "What Halo did for first person shooters, we'd like to do for dramatic games. If it's taken to be The Lord of the Rings of the game world," - a constant reference point for Dyack - "that'd be awesome."

If anyone is a good bet to forge that kind of breakthrough, it's Dyack. Over the years, with Too Human lingering in the background, Silicon Knights forged ahead. Dyack's company designed a string of critically acclaimed hits as a second-party developer for Nintendo, the dominant game system in the mid-'90s.

Silicon Knights' reputation grew as a maker of narrative-driven games geared toward a mature audience, and as pioneers of a form. From their first series, Legacy of Kain, to Eternal Darkness to Metal Gear Solid series, the studio deftly manoeuvred between rote shoot-'em-ups and more story-driven content.

Too Human, though, was meant to be a step beyond. The game was complex and layered, deeply rooted in Norse mythology, where the Gods walked the earth and battled back the forces of Ragnarok - the apocalypse - with their otherworldly powers.

Too Human is designed to subsume those myths and project them to a faraway planet, where a Matrix/Terminator-esque scenario has unfolded machines have turned against their creators and humanity's only hope is a class of warriors elevated to the status of Gods - like Baldur, the principal hero - by a raft of cybernetic enhancements.

As the game deepens, the hero is pressured to add mechanical parts to survive since he is "too human" to prevail.
"It's man versus machine - everybody gets that," Dyack says. "But if you dig, it goes deep - what makes us human? What defines the human soul?"

Silicon Knights made its first attempt at the game for Sony's Playstation One in the mid-'90s, and then again for Nintendo's GameCube. But it was heady stuff for a nascent medium, well beyond its technology and adolescent audience.
Dyack's vision was larger that that. To him, Too Human is not just a trio of games. It's a revolution.
"Video games aren't viewed, by and large, as an art form and we want to push it to where it is," he said. "We think we're in the middle of a paradigm shift right now. I truly believe gaming is really going to change culture, and we're trying to respond to that."

It doesn't seem an entirely vain hope. Dyack eschewed the popular 'first-person' gaming camera position in favour of a more cinematic viewpoint that tracks and pans, giving it a cinematic presentation. It was also important that players be able to see the hero's facial expressions and emotion, he said.

Borrowing from cinema, the environments are visually rich and atmospheric, using lighting and music to set mood and tone. "If it doesn't look as good as The Lord of the Rings, we haven't done our job," he said.
Dyack office is a corner suite on the eighth floor of a squat, 10- storey concrete bunker-like building that counts as a skyscraper in St. Catharines' modest downtown.

Across the valley and plainly in view, is another similarly proportioned building - Dyack's undergraduate alma mater, Brock University, where he started in Phys Ed before switching to computer science. "I was a varsity wrestler," he says with pride.

He's an eager conversationalist, speaking rapid-fire in full paragraphs, referencing anything from management guru Peter Drucker's Post-Capitalist Society to Greek philosophy to Nietzsche. (A Too Human poster features a quote from the German philosopher "He who battles monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.")
For Dyack, game production isn't merely business, it's culture- making. "I'm a big fan of Aristotle's Poetics," Dyack says of the philosopher's text. "No one has written a Poetics for the video- game industry yet, and we need one."
Which, of course, is the goal for Too Human. In his years producing games for Nintendo, Dyack worked alongside that company's legendary founders, Miyamoto-san and Kojima-san.

"It was kind of like working with Socrates and Aristotle," he said. "When we moved on, we felt like, 'okay, we've graduated from school, now we're ready to really do what we want,' which is make Too Human."
All the while, Too Human was in the background, gestating.

"Being able to think about it alongside making all these other games, we were able to be self-reflective - what worked, and didn't work, about these other games. That's all focused into what has become Too Human. It's almost like having a child, in some ways. We've built the company from the ground up just to do this."

Yet, therein also lies a danger. The gaming industry is in the midst of a painful weeding out process, where developers and publishers are consolidating, or simply vanishing.

"Games are so expensive, nobody wants to take risks," said Gamespy.com's Kosak. "That's why we rarely see really creative, inventive stuff."

Dyack is keenly aware of the risks. On Too Human, he embraces them. "We've seen some high-profile developers turn out a couple of bad products - and they're gone. You're only as good as your last game," he said. "But when you can think about something for 10 years, you can get a lot of things right. This is our defining moment. And we think it's going to be the start of something big - bigger than we ever imagined."


Unfortunately, the article requires a membership to read but here's the link anyway.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/thestar/access/1005720791.html?dids=1005720791:1005720791&FMT=FT&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Mar+19%2C+2006&author=Murray+Whyte&pub=Toronto+Star&desc=The+monster+within

After looking into this article, it seems more like a generalization of high profile next-gen titles, so yeah, it would include marketing, the whole gambit.

Pez_555
06-22-2007, 02:23
pictures look really good.

off topic: can people see my avatar picture?

pascale
06-22-2007, 04:28
I read the blog properly... the eighth art, I like it and agree. Kind of spits at Kojima's ' video games aren't art ', though.

Not necessarily. If I remember correctly, Kojima was referring to the fundamental difference between arts and video games: passivity/interactivity. Art makes for a passive audience. Any activity happens in the mind of the viewer.
Video games are interactive. And while there have been the odd art work that has some sort of interactivity (usually sound/light effects triggered by the presence of viewers) there is no art field (i.e. sculpture, painting, music, etc) which intrinsically has interactivity...

The article on top adds interactivity into art without questioning how that fundamentally alters what art is...

RMoore
06-22-2007, 12:13
Would have been nice to actually get some info on the game instead of a film studies class..Still looks interesting.

Two4DaMoney
06-22-2007, 12:29
In a sense, yes. Robots in human form (The gods) as well. Also there are "cyber" worlds as well, so who knows what kinds of enemies will be found in those.
Cool.

I asked because I haven't been following this game for quite some time now.