View Full Version : Fanboys and Flaming - In depth look at a thread gone bad, and the forum's problems
This forum has reached a point where we need to start thinking, very seriously, about the forums future. I think, I would not be alone if I said that, on a fanboy, troll, flaming, flamebaiting, politeness rate, we are at an all time low in every respect. I have picked a thread out of the pile of 'slowlydrowningcrap' that this forum is fast becoming, and will become if the brakes are not hit very soon, by someone or a group of people who are willing to say what is wrong, how to solve it and do it. I expect opinions are diverse when it comes to who should be this group.
I would like first to immunise myself towards almost certainly incoming attacks. This thread is from the 360 forum, this is for a single reason and that reason is that I spend most of my time on the XBOX360 forum, owning an XBOX360 myself, and I saw this as what I believe to be possibly the perfect example of what is wrong in this forum. In this thread, both fans of the B-Side and the G-Side are doing things which I deem to be damaging to the forum, and I believe to be unnacceptable.
PART 1: Examples, and Classification of problems
To start, as is customary, at the beginning, with the original post:
GameDaily BIZ: While it's great to see MS extend the 360 warranty and address the hardware problem, it's a bit of a double-edged sword isn't it? Millions of people who didn't know much about Xbox heard the news on radio or TV and they heard about the $1 billion hit, and now they associate the brand with a console that has major defects. Does that concern you?
Peter Moore: We knew that it would be a challenge because the issue was focused primarily on the gamers who were having a problem and we had to respond to that, but you know when you do something that begins with a "B" the world takes notice. But it wasn't a hard decision. We had no choice because we were not happy with the way we were seeing the failure rates go up in recent months. So yeah you're concerned that [the brand] does take a hit with consumers, but the other thing I'm actually seeing is a lot of kudos for Microsoft in actually standing by its product and a lot of commentary like, "I wish more companies would do that." It is what it is, and I think the overwhelming positive that came out of it is that people feel a lot more comfortable with the product. Any concerns that might have been lingering about quality have gone away because we're going to stand by it.
BIZ: One thing that's a bit concerning to me, though, is that Microsoft refuses to say what's at the root of the problem. An analogy I would use is that if your car breaks down and you need to get it fixed, the mechanic will tell you what's causing the problem.
PM: That's because they're giving you a bill [laughs]...
BIZ: Well, you guys were giving a lot of consumers a bill before the warranty policy changed. And now you have to repay those customers. So why is it that Microsoft won't disclose the root cause of the defects? Shouldn't consumers have the right to know?
PM: There are a number of different causes that have different trigger points, whether it's issues with how you use it, where you use it, whatever... So it's a complicated issue, and there's no real purpose to be served by sharing any more information than we've done. We've really got to focus on getting things fixed, and our challenge now is to implement the plan. It's a complicated thing, it's global in nature, it's not inexpensive and we want to take care of people who send in their console because of the three red rings; that's our focus.
BIZ: It's a bit ironic, because when MS first got into the console business, critics laughed because MS is a software company at its core. It's not in the business of creating hardware. Now the company has discovered some faulty design in its 360 hardware, seemingly proving the critics right. What do you say to those critics?
PM: Those critics need to do their homework and look at some of the hardware product failures that this industry has seen in the past 30 years that maybe have not got as much publicity...
BIZ: You're saying that this is not an unprecedented failure for a video game console?
PM: Probably the size of it may be unprecedented, and certainly the financial implications, but if people say that previous consoles have all been perfect and not had failure rates, then they need to go get a history lesson.
BIZ: I met with Shane Kim earlier this year and asked him to give the Xbox 360 a grade for 2006, so he gave it a B+. Obviously you'd love to think of the 360 business as A-grade material, so what do you need to do to improve this year and beyond?
PM: If Shane is grading it B+ for 2006, he looks at it through a Microsoft Game Studios lens. As we move into this holiday with the lineup we've got and Xbox Live firing on all cylinders with what we believe is a tremendous focus that's going to pay dividends on broader entertainment, whether it's Disney or Scene It and bringing in easier to use controllers, I think all of the things we put into place 3 or 4 years ago as strategic plans for holiday 2007 all seem to be firing. And there are a lot of announcements still to come – we've got Leipzig and Tokyo Game Show, and there's still 5-6 months before the holiday. I think the implementation of the strategy laid down several years ago to broaden the reach by 2007, that's something I need to make sure we do.
BIZ: Right, Microsoft keeps on talking about how it needs to expand beyond the core audience, but the console and its games are very much for the hardcore. And let's face it – Rare by itself is not enough. This is a huge challenge for Microsoft, especially as Nintendo seems to be grabbing more of that non-core audience. How do you approach this challenge?
PM: I'd rather be in our position where we've captured the core, and as I pointed out with the economics of the business on Tuesday night it's a very important customer to capture. It's a far better place to springboard from to captivate the masses than try to do the reverse if you've started off at the mass market level and then you have to go get the core. So yeah, we have to do all the things I just talked about. You need to have simplified controllers, you need to make sure you have enough games – you're right, not just one game from Rare, but multiple games – and you need to continue to stick to your task.
The brand also needs to broaden. We started campaigns about a month ago to support blockbuster entertainment. The movie games, like Transformers for example, have done well for Activision, for Disney and even for EA. And starting off with Rock Band on Tuesday night, I think is an important statement about fun... and you're going to see a lot more of that. Our Guitar Hero success [is another example]. With Activision in the previous quarter, they called out in their earnings that we sold a lot of Xbox 360 Guitar Heros. So it all has to come together and it all will come together.
http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16905
Its long read and still more than this, but M$ never learn for this mistakes to creating an XBOX
At this point, I do not personally see a problem. Shin-Ra has reported on news, thats totally acceptable. Unfortunately this thread has over one hundred replies, so I will not point out every single, or even close, to every part of the problem, but I will give a good summarisation with some examples.
The first to post, are the B-Side (Blue-Side, PS3 side etc.), though there is nothing wrong in the writing of the posts, it should be seen that there is stuff which could be deemed provocative. Take this post from Dead-Zen:
I'm too busy enjoying my PS3 that works to bother with a well thought out rebuttal.
But I'll just say this much...watching him leave was a lot like watching a rat paddling in the ocean away from a sinking ship. One that looks a lot like....
http://gameapollo.com/screenshots/static/images/jdv1175105145j.jpg
This one.
There are a few problems with this post, the first one is that, if you are too busy to bother with a rebuttal, why are you posting at all? It all becomes obvious a few lines later. Flamebaiting, naturally. Flamebaiting, to me, is one of the most tough things to really get to grips with, its hard to punish, but it does cause problems. What Dead-Zen posted may not have been intentionally flamebaiting, but it does show one of two things. Either he was intentionally trying to boil the blood, or he did not think about what he was posting. A quick preview would prove very nicely to him that what he posted was going to ensnare the senses and basically ensure that any replies would be, at least slightly, with malice.
Before I get to the rebuttal to this post, I'd just like to show, because I believe it important, a post fairly representitive of the rest of the B-Side at this point in the thread:
What a complete moron. Of course everything has had problems at one time or another. The real issue is the RATE at which this is happening, the PERCENTAGE of units effected, and how LONG it took them to do something.
Brian
This post has nothing wrong with it, its a reply to Moore, and its what I would deem to be fair, and perfectly acceptable. You could I suppose say its a flamebait, I'm sure a lot of the more green blooded G-Side members (Green-Side, 360 fans, etc.), would say it is, my reply to them would be. It might bait flaming, but only flaming from those who are too far gone to see anything fairly.
Now of course, we get to the replies:
Wow, you Sony boys just dont give it up do you. This horse has been dead for so **** long yet you keep kicking it around. Absolutely amazing...
Problem 1, though I can not see any more posts than one which are perhaps not acceptable, he has adressed the Sony Boys. The first problem with that is that its plural, which I don't think is fair, the second problem is he doesn't actually point out who he does mean by this, which gives probably every Sony fan, or fanboy above think that they've been personally attacked, intentional by JonJon3 or not.
Problem 2, dead horse? What dead horse?
To verify whether there is a dead horse or not, I've gone to the source of knowledge itself, the good old Wikipedia:
Beating a dead horse is an idiom which means a particular request or line of conversation is already foreclosed, mooted, or otherwise resolved, and any attempt to continue it is futile.
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_a_dead_horse)
So, does this situation match this?
Is the situation with the 360 ROD foreclosed? No, Peter Moore is still whining on about it, and denying it. Otherwise resolved? No, the issue is still a huge problem, and has massive room for improvement. Perhaps it is futile, but only because of the inability for people like Moore, and G-Side fanboys, to accept that there is a problem and room for serious improvement in many respects.
Now obviously, that is slightly opinionated, maybe some really do think that this matches up with that definition, I don't care, I don't believe it does so the show most go on.
Well its not like they can bitch about sales now is it.
Can't wait for when the PS3 overtakes the Xbox next year! Then you would have been Proved Wrong!
(Josh is in reply to Infinite)
So now, we have another problem rising from the mist, the totally unrelated to the topic flaming. Both are wrong, both should be punished, its that simple. Infinite has posted a flamebaiting damage control, and Josh has replied in kind. Open and... shut but why isn't it shut?
you guys might want to be careful about what you guys say of microsoft and moore...aquanox might be around the corner...you all know how he rules this side of the forum with his dictator like fist.....one more bad thing about microsoft and he's likely to change the thread title or even lock the thread cause it's "pointless".....but i digress.....
Now we have delved even further down into the pile of trash that this thread is already in. Now, I do not confess to always agree with Aquanox, in either his beliefs around the gaming industry, or some of his moderational moves on the forum, I do however know that he does have, at least, 99% of this forum's best interests at heart, secondly, these type of posts in general (which takes all sorts of forms, from: IN BEFORE LOCK!, to HANDS FLAMESHIELD, to LET ME GET SOME POPCORN. They are not only predictions of a problem, they are an enhancement to the problem. Posting this type of thing is predicting a problem, and saying that, in some ways 'I'm so clever I can predict what will happen, and I can tell you it will be wrong, and it has to do with this person/group of people'. This type of post, in any form, should, in my opinion, be referred to as a flamebait, not to mention TOTALLY irrelevent to the topic.
At this point, in the story of this thread, the irrelevent-to-topic flaming is at an all time high, I will not post anymore of this trash, I've already posted my views. If you wish to see the crap which goes on between petty Ps3fanboy and petty 360fanboy, I'll post the thread at the bottom of this post.
I will however, using page 1 of the thread in question, post something that few people do when posting mega-rants such as these. I'm going to post names:
Dead_Zen - Flamebait (Maybe not malicious, but ill thought out)
JonJon3 - Returning fire (Didn't address any particular person, causes more crap)
Infinite Daremo - Off topic damage control
Josh93 - Returning fire, offtopic
DarkChild - Flamebait, offtopic
Infinite Daremo - Returning fire with more offtopic damage control
MaximumAwareness - Rudeness, as well as returning fire, offtopic
Infinite Daremo - Returning fire, extreme rudeness, flamebaiting, still offtopic
Bakari - Flamebait, bit rude, malicious sarcasm (The kind of post which is hard to classify, and equally hard to punish, has he done anything wrong (I will post this post below the list)
Now, thats just a single post and all the really easy, small, and petty crap, thats 40 posts, and that many of them are instantly identifiable as unacceptable, at least by me. There are a few more posts which are probably not exactly clean as ice, but anyway.
Guys I wasn't aware that Mrs. Cleo had joined Ps3forums!
So how exactly did you arrive at this conspiracy theory?
What can you say about that? Its obviously meant in sarcasm, but it almost gives the feeling that it isn't so much of a friendly joke, it looks to me more... malicious?
PART 2: This other problem
The thread also (excuse me from not lengthening this already gigantic thread with more quotes of what I'm going to outline) gives what is becoming, in my opinion, an ever growing problem on this forum. That problem, which I have posted about a few times is certain people's beliefs on what people are, and are not allowed to post (which are generally double standards.)
I want to get this straight, I believe that I should be able to post anywhere on this forum I like, and I am sick of feeling that I am at least semi-condemned for where I post, because I think a lot of people do see me as someone with slightly more than a soft spot for Sony and the PS3, fine. I do, I do like Sony and I do like the PS3. I also have an XBOX360, but in any case. Almost every day on this forum, I see 360 fans who will lash out at the original poster for posting negative news, they'll essentially declare that they are a PS3 fanboy and that as a PS3 fanboy they my not post negative news about the XBOX360. The problem with that is, I simply don't post news, partially because I'm lazy, but partially because I don't want to be condemned when I post any piece of news. Posters like LoudNinja are crucially important for this forum, they post a huge volume of news on both sides of the iron curtain, but for some reason, that job which so few are willing to undertake, and I think its fair to say it is a job, is one where there seem to be certain rules on how you should be. LoudNinja is one of the most respected members on the forum if you look at a points basis, I am not sure however how popular he is. He gets rep when he posts news, sure, but the number of times I see him get bashed and flamed are ridiculous. He is a central part of this forum, he is one of a kind, and though he has a lot of reputation I'm not really sure how grateful some are. When you have someone who posts news like a robot on speed, you need to be not only grateful but willing to do him the justice of taking the news for news and not sizing him up as a person due to what he has posted.
This is not only a problem with original-posts in a thread, it seems that there is almost (as I said earlier), an iron curtain. I'm not sure whether it is the same on the PS3 Discussion, but on the 360 side, it seems to be relatively unnacceptable to post anything negative to the 360, ESPECIALLY if you have been known to do so in the past. Once impartial, twice a fanboy.
There are of course, to sides to this, one is pressure from others and one is pressure of what you feel you are meant to be. I think most would agree if I said I was an open poster, who in general posted my mind. Once I became SMC, I felt almost under pressure to keep as Perfect Prefect as possible, I don't know if any noticed this but I then realised that, doing that was boring. If I want to say something, if I want to have an argument I ****ed well will, and if I get prosecuted and removed from my post then so be it, though I point out to others in the staff, SMC, and mods, that I'm not really sure what your views on that are, and I'm certainly not saying that you all (or any of you) believe that we should all be perfect prefects, I do not know.
To close, this forum has a wealth of problems, which are growing larger by the day, and will not be stopped by more of the same, there needs to be a drastic action, because otherwise this forum will turn into a permanent warzone. I suppose it is perhaps cowardly that I have posted a ridiculously long post on what the problem is and have not come up with a solution yet, however I'll give it a shot as I hope many will. Massed banning, massed punishments. To make this forum work it needs to be a forum with massed freedom, but if you do something wrong you need to be hit with a sack of potatoes so hard you land on Mars, we need to start punishing people not only for maliciously bad posts, but stupidly bad posts (And Dead_Zen's post that I put way above would be what I would call that).
To once again immunise myself, I know that I am no saint, I do not claim to be not wish to be, take what you will off this post. If I had the power to hand out warnings, the above would be mine, not to any single person, or group of people, but to the entire forum.
PlayStation Fascination
07-26-2007, 15:28
It's a forum and people are going to have varying opinions. If we all agreed on everything it would become boring. The mods are doing a good job at keeping the forums running smoothly.
I have belonged to forums that boasted 40,000 members yet only about a dozen were active. I joined small sites where 3 or 4 people are active. This site has the most active members I've seen. The only PS3 site I know that has more activity is the official boards.
I don't even go to N4G.com or qj.net much anymore. The news is usually posted here first.
I do agree that any news about the 360 that is less than glowing is met with about 3-4 members that do whatever they can to sabotage the thread. We all know who they are. They certainly don't control the forums here regardless of how hard they try. Just report them when they step out of line. They are fanatical at times and sometimes cross the line. Just report it.
It's a forum and people are going to have varying opinions. If we all agreed on everything it would become boring. The mods are doing a good job at keeping the forums running smoothly.
I have belonged to forums that boasted 40,000 members yet only about a dozen were active. I joined small sites where 3 or 4 people are active. This site has the most active members I've seen. The only PS3 site I know that has more activity is the official boards.
I don't even go to N4G.com or qj.net much anymore. The news is usually posted here first.
I don't know why members are making doomsday threads lately. Maybe because the PS3 is doing well, we have nothing to worry about so we worry about the state of the forum here.
I do agree that any news about the 360 that is less than glowing is met with about 3-4 members that do whatever they can to sabotage the thread. I'm not sure what can be done about it though. They certainly don't control the forums here regardless of how hard they try.
Yes, this forum is very good, but its going down hill fast, that thread that I've outlined is an appalling example of how bad its getting, flame after flame after flame. This forum has its strengths and weaknesses. If there are 3-4 members that are attempting to sabotage the thread, then there is a simply solution which is that they should all be removed, but that hasn't happened. That is the kind of action which needs to be taken to sort this out and it isn't. 4 members who are doing things which are totally unacceptable, you say in almost any thread which isn't glowing for the 360, and they are still here? Why?
PlayStation Fascination
07-26-2007, 15:41
Yes, this forum is very good, but its going down hill fast, that thread that I've outlined is an appalling example of how bad its getting, flame after flame after flame. This forum has its strengths and weaknesses. If there are 3-4 members that are attempting to sabotage the thread, then there is a simply solution which is that they should all be removed, but that hasn't happened. That is the kind of action which needs to be taken to sort this out and it isn't. 4 members who are doing things which are totally unacceptable, you say in almost any thread which isn't glowing for the 360, and they are still here? Why?
IMHO just report them and keep reporting their posts that break the rules. I have reported their inappropriate posts and they got infractions. If we join together in reporting them, maybe their infractions will add up.
I edited my original post because the more I thought about yours, the more sense it makes. I originally thought this was an over reaction thread. It isn't. You put a lot of time and thought into your post here.
Tool 316
07-26-2007, 15:55
well i can see where you are coming from, but like PlayStation Fascination said, people will disagree and have very different opinions, there is such a huge diversity in ages that the maturity and politness of each post will fluctuate. I'm sure for every post that starts out like this there is another thats the complete opposite, where people respect each others opinion without flamebaiting, trolling or being disrespectful. i thinks there are some problems, minor problems. i don't think they will bring about the demise of the forum, people come and go and the ones that are serious will stay and the rest will fade.
well i can see where you are coming from, but like PlayStation Fascination said, people will disagree and have very different opinions, there is such a huge diversity in ages that the maturity and politness of each post will fluctuate. I'm sure for every post that starts out like this there is another thats the complete opposite, where people respect each others opinion without flamebaiting, trolling or being disrespectful. i thinks there are some problems, minor problems. i don't think they will bring about the demise of the forum, people come and go and the ones that are serious will stay and the rest will fade.
Yeh because people like JapJap, Rubics Cube, Rune_74 etc all faded didn't they :| ? Sorry, no offense, but you haven't been around long enough to see how long some of these people will stick around and provoke people for. Its usually until they get banned. And that takes a while due to this broken infraction system in place.
As some people may have noticed, I've gradually been posting less and less. I'm getting sick of the way this forum is turning out. Nobody wants to talk about games, nobody wants to discuss anything technical or interesting. Its all ****ing 'console warz!!11!' politics. Since when did it become a war? How exactly do you send bombs and cluster grenades down the internet? Its a joke.
Not too long ago I posted a long ass post about the differences in MSFT and Sony's aproaches to 1st party games and exclusives http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?p=1681243#post1681243 . Instead of it developing into an interesting discussion/debate it fell down the page like bird poo from the sky. I just can't be bothered putting any thoughts into my posts anymore, because I know that majority of people on here aren't going to read, think and post a coherent reply. I garuntee that if I had made that thread about MGS4 exclusivity then it would have got 10x the replies. Would it have been a productive thread? No, but thats my point. Productive and interesting threads are no longer, trash is more common.
I feel too much emphasis is made on the 'sides'. It makes me cringe everytime I hear someone say 'green side' or 'SDF'. I mean... WTF. PS3 forums is not Iraq, people who own 360s are not Americans and PS3 owners are not Iraqi's. Everybody on this forum has a common interest, and that is games. And I wish that people would just put their hardware preference aside for a couple of seconds before they post, think about what they are saying and then make a post that is more relevant to the actual topic on hand rather than this 'war'.
I mean, games are games, majority of the games are multiplatform now anyway, so why can't someone who owns a PS3 talk about a game like Assasins Creed for example in the 360 section without getting a burning pole stuck up their ass? The same goes vice versa. It doesn't matter what console they will play the game on, the game is the same. Similar for exclusive games discussion. If you don't have anything better to say other than 'my exclusivez r betta than ures!!11!', then don't bother posting. It doesn't add anything to the discussion and what is considered a 'better' lineup is subjective, so in that sense there is no right/wrong answer. And no, the amount of games doesn't make any difference either because different people put different amounts of weighting on each game depending on preferences. Instead of talking about rival lineups, talk about what interests you out of the lineup in the topic at hand and why. Is it that difficult :? ? We are fast approaching one of the best falls gaming has ever seen in terms of games (and that goes for all consoles), if discussions continue the way they are currently going, this place aint gonna be pretty come November.
What I'll say is that mods need to come down harder on people. There's no use being nice to people anymore, it just isn't working. Also, we have so many members that if a few problematic people are getting banned everyday it wouldn't make much difference anyway. 1st offense = 1 day ban, 2nd = 1 week, 3rd 1 month 4th = perma. Its that simple. And that should apply for trolling and flaming IMO. For things like sigs, language and any other minor offenses, the infraction rules should come in, but when its serious things that are detrimental to the quality of discussion across the board, people need to know where they stand and know they can't get away with being conplete tools.
Just my 2cents.
tmacfan4321
07-26-2007, 16:43
I like g h g's idea about banning.
What I'll say is that mods need to come down harder on people. There's no use being nice to people anymore, it just isn't working. Also, we have so many members that if a few problematic people are getting banned everyday it wouldn't make much difference anyway. 1st offense = 1 day ban, 2nd = 1 week, 3rd 1 month 4th = perma. Its that simple. And that should apply for trolling and flaming IMO. For things like sigs, language and any other minor offenses, the infraction rules should come in, but when its serious things that are detrimental to the quality of discussion across the board, people need to know where they stand and know they can't get away with being conplete tools.
I agree, totally. Having seen the general action that moderators take with trolls, which is fast and quick, and painful, I just don't understand how there are so many who just slip through the net, and there are numerous ones. As an SMC, my moderational abilities go basically nowhere, at best I can move stuff around with small problems, I can delete posts which are flaming or whatever, but I actually refuse to do so. I am amazed when I see a moderator deleting a flamebait! I just can't believe it. Deleting but no punishment, its absurd, if its worth deletion its worth a spank too!
The responsibility is all down to the mods, and the staff, it won't be easy but if they can put so much emphasis into making PSU so awesome :D they can manage to set this right. It is TOTALLY possible to have the forum we want, it just takes a little bit of grit and determination to press the ban button a lot more. Having, in some ways been on the inside, I know roughly what gets what, and I simply don't get it. I used to think almost anything bad got an infraction, the reason was my experience.
I've had 4 infractions in my forum time, one for a post which was 'pointless', one for insulting compgeek, one for insulting JapJap, and one for a double post. Each one was a one point infraction.
Though, at the time of recieving I thought, WTF? WTF? WTF? and WTF? Well actually, I STILL think WTF about the JapJap thing, they sure as hell banged me into line. The thing is that, if that kind of attention was done now, you'd have 100 infractions a day, that thread I've dedicated this thread to would have 50 infractions at least. I think, and still think it was out of kink, but it was sure as hell better than what we have now.
To get a 1 point infraction now you basically have to cut a moderator's ear off, to get a 2 point infraction you have to steal The_One's Ice cream, and to get banned you actually have to murder someone.
Deletion has replaced infractions, infractions have replaced banning, and banning is left for psychos, and racists alone.
Sigh, now just to hope no-one I accused sees the thread :)
Mikleran
07-26-2007, 17:36
*Sorry for naming names in this but it couldn't have been done any other way*
I think the problems with the forum lie much deeper than what you've described Xaor.
I'm a member of several other forums around, varying greatly in size from 20 members in total, 20 active members a day, maybe 20 members on at a time to this place. Which one is by far the best forum as a whole? The 20 active members a day one, but it actually very little to do with that fact.
It's actually quite an unusual place because most of the common posters know each other on there quite well, through PSN, Xbox Live etc etc. There is a group on there that have been on the forum for around 4-5 years, and who know each other extremely well.. they are really good friends. I have only been on there for just over a year now, so I don't know everyone near as well as they all do. but I know them and I've got all of them on my friends list. In fact, I've got 90% of active posters that have made over 1500 posts on the forum on my friends list, taking up well just under a third of my list.
As a group, they have truely helped to 'educate' the forum and keep it going in the excellent way it has gone. If someone says something truely fanboyish, it will ignored until it is deleted. If they say something from as a fanboy but at least making some sort of contribution, they will almost certainly get some witty comment thrown back at them.
Nobody cares about which console wins, or which one is better.. anyone who has been around for a while can make a joke about a console because almost everyone will actually find it funny rather than insulting.
I think this will be much better if I point out the problems with this forum I recognise, see how the forum I think this place should 'aim' for does it and then suggest what I think should be done to get something similar because otherwise it will get just become a mess.
Problem: Forumite Arrogance.
PS3forums
This has become such a huge issue around here, and I think it has just 'rubbed off' certain individuals who had it before joining this forum.
A lot of members with high-post counts always think that they are right, and that they have some god-given power over newer members to say that they are wrong. They are also very stubborn, and extremely unwilling to be wrong.
The best example I can think of as a member is Loudninja.. he contributes a lot to the forum, but not always positively because he always thinks that he is right. The constant bombardment of threads with the 'oh, for the last time.. X is going to happen' posts gives an extremely bad impression and ruins a lot of threads. Don't get me wrong, a lot of members do this but Loudninja does it in a lot of threads all across the forum.
In fact, a great example I can think of is Knuckles back in the Halo 3 online co-op thread a few days ago.. 'M$ are rushing the game, if the game was delayed until November online co-op would be in it' etc was based upon nothing at all, yet he constantly posted replies along the same lines. It quickly irritated me and what I assume must be a great number of posters in the thread.
Xaor, you were making statements about the Wii just a few days ago that showed undesired arrogance about your knowledge being 'far greater' than public knowledge. Nothing personal, it happens all the time around here but it's just one I can think of that happened recently.
The Other Forum
Has no such issues in it. Nobody will post constant replies in a thread about how they are right, nobody will keep going on about something to a point where people get p!ssed off with them.
Well, there has been one example recently.. the guy who did it had sarcastic comments thrown at him from 90% of the forum and he's stopped doing it. Might be cruel, but it worked. :)
How to solve it on here?
Prevent people from posting constant replies to other members who don't care about what the particular member thinks in a thread. Have a rule against people thinking their opinion is right. Delete all posts from that member that are deemed unnecessary or just pointless.
Problem: Constant stream of threads just about pointless new articles
PS3forums
Just why? If news4gamers posts a new interview with the developers of Assassin's Creed that shows nothing new, nothing interesting nor nothing that the original poster can make a semi-decent comment about, why is it posted? There are threads upon threads of useless topics that nobody cares about, from the billionth X360 MGS rumour to one new FlatOut UC screenshot.. they just should be deleted instantly. Nobody ever posts a new article on a similar topic in a current thread.. it almost seems as if they want either the reputation points associated with starting a new thread. rugbynuus consistently does something along these lines, and ends up with thread upon thread of useless articles with games written inside them.
The Other Forum
If I see a link in there about any game, I will click on it because I know it'll be of interest. Each game has it's own thread, maybe an accidental side-thread for a barrage of new information. Nobody posts random articles nobody cares about, or if they do they are simply ignored.
How to solve it on here?
I reckon if a survey was done about reputation points, you'd find the vast majority of points given out were for new 'articles' being posted rather than good posts. I think this has attracted many new users to just post whatever article they find about any game in the relevant section, just to try and gain the rep.. or at least, get their name known.
Useless threads should be deleted instantly, and some method of discouraging members from posting them should be implemented. Alongside that should be some method of encouraging members to post stuff in current/recent threads, rather than start clogging up the current front-page with similar articles.
Problem: Reading far too deeply into things
PS3forums
Man, this happens all the time and starts ticking so many people off so quickly. Going back to the GTAIV thread involving Loudninja I mentioned earlier, he has read far too deeply into public-relation quotes from Sony executives to try to prove his point- luckily, this time it was too obvious for everyone and they've had a right go at him for doing it, but it has happened so many times by high-profile members that then starts to spread around the forum.
It's not an issue elsewhere, so i'll leave that..
How to solve it on here?
Delete posts that do it immediately. Lock threads.. infract people for it. Hell, any way of preventing it is drastically needed because at the moment nothing is being done to prevent it.
Problem: Moderators
PS3forums
Wow I'm not going to be liked for saying this, but here goes..
Almost all moderators are clearly biased and it starts to ruin things quickly. Moderators shouldn't have their own agenda of making one console look better than another- they should just be there to contribute to conversation while cleaning it up. They should essentially be the ideal member because they are the people junior members look up to, and when they set the bad example some currently are...
Some moderators also seem to lock threads just because they're not liking what's going on in them.. *cough*Aquanox*cough*. That also needs sorting out, and fast.. because at the moment they just close threads because they feel like it. They shouldn't be moderators.
Other moderators also just lack common sense. It's a great thing to have, and something moderators really need to have in order to know what needs deleted, what someone is actually meaning when they say stuff etc.
The Other Forum
It has 3 active moderators.. but this is because the 'group' I mentioned before help to prevent stupid stuff from happening. Obviously, nothing like that can/would ever happen over here, but it's worth looking at..
How to solve it on here?
I think some senior council members need the boot.. I'm not going to name names, but they're probably pretty obvious from who I coughed earlier. ;)
More moderators need appointed, preferably as neutral as possible with as much common sense as possible. Some might need to be demoted as well, but because of PSU Journalist/Admin ties, I doubt that will ever happen.
There is more... I'm just not posting it now because I'm too tired. Maybe tomorrow if I get the chance...
Mikleran :)
Hmm, so let me get this straight, no one has been banning as much since my leave?
*Sorry for naming names in this but it couldn't have been done any other way*
I think the problems with the forum lie much deeper than what you've described Xaor.
I'm a member of several other forums around, varying greatly in size from 20 members in total, 20 active members a day, maybe 20 members on at a time to this place. Which one is by far the best forum as a whole? The 20 active members a day one, but it actually very little to do with that fact.
It's actually quite an unusual place because most of the common posters know each other on there quite well, through PSN, Xbox Live etc etc. There is a group on there that have been on the forum for around 4-5 years, and who know each other extremely well.. they are really good friends. I have only been on there for just over a year now, so I don't know everyone near as well as they all do. but I know them and I've got all of them on my friends list. In fact, I've got 90% of active posters that have made over 1500 posts on the forum on my friends list, taking up well just under a third of my list.
As a group, they have truely helped to 'educate' the forum and keep it going in the excellent way it has gone. If someone says something truely fanboyish, it will ignored until it is deleted. If they say something from as a fanboy but at least making some sort of contribution, they will almost certainly get some witty comment thrown back at them.
Nobody cares about which console wins, or which one is better.. anyone who has been around for a while can make a joke about a console because almost everyone will actually find it funny rather than insulting.
I think this will be much better if I point out the problems with this forum I recognise, see how the forum I think this place should 'aim' for does it and then suggest what I think should be done to get something similar because otherwise it will get just become a mess.
Problem: Forumite Arrogance.
PS3forums
This has become such a huge issue around here, and I think it has just 'rubbed off' certain individuals who had it before joining this forum.
A lot of members with high-post counts always think that they are right, and that they have some god-given power over newer members to say that they are wrong. They are also very stubborn, and extremely unwilling to be wrong.
The best example I can think of as a member is Loudninja.. he contributes a lot to the forum, but not always positively because he always thinks that he is right. The constant bombardment of threads with the 'oh, for the last time.. X is going to happen' posts gives an extremely bad impression and ruins a lot of threads. Don't get me wrong, a lot of members do this but Loudninja does it in a lot of threads all across the forum.
In fact, a great example I can think of is Knuckles back in the Halo 3 online co-op thread a few days ago.. 'M$ are rushing the game, if the game was delayed until November online co-op would be in it' etc was based upon nothing at all, yet he constantly posted replies along the same lines. It quickly irritated me and what I assume must be a great number of posters in the thread.
Xaor, you were making statements about the Wii just a few days ago that showed undesired arrogance about your knowledge being 'far greater' than public knowledge. Nothing personal, it happens all the time around here but it's just one I can think of that happened recently.
The Other Forum
Has no such issues in it. Nobody will post constant replies in a thread about how they are right, nobody will keep going on about something to a point where people get p!ssed off with them.
Well, there has been one example recently.. the guy who did it had sarcastic comments thrown at him from 90% of the forum and he's stopped doing it. Might be cruel, but it worked. :)
How to solve it on here?
Prevent people from posting constant replies to other members who don't care about what the particular member thinks in a thread. Have a rule against people thinking their opinion is right. Delete all posts from that member that are deemed unnecessary or just pointless.
Problem: Constant stream of threads just about pointless new articles
PS3forums
Just why? If news4gamers posts a new interview with the developers of Assassin's Creed that shows nothing new, nothing interesting nor nothing that the original poster can make a semi-decent comment about, why is it posted? There are threads upon threads of useless topics that nobody cares about, from the billionth X360 MGS rumour to one new FlatOut UC screenshot.. they just should be deleted instantly. Nobody ever posts a new article on a similar topic in a current thread.. it almost seems as if they want either the reputation points associated with starting a new thread. rugbynuus consistently does something along these lines, and ends up with thread upon thread of useless articles with games written inside them.
The Other Forum
If I see a link in there about any game, I will click on it because I know it'll be of interest. Each game has it's own thread, maybe an accidental side-thread for a barrage of new information. Nobody posts random articles nobody cares about, or if they do they are simply ignored.
How to solve it on here?
I reckon if a survey was done about reputation points, you'd find the vast majority of points given out were for new 'articles' being posted rather than good posts. I think this has attracted many new users to just post whatever article they find about any game in the relevant section, just to try and gain the rep.. or at least, get their name known.
Useless threads should be deleted instantly, and some method of discouraging members from posting them should be implemented. Alongside that should be some method of encouraging members to post stuff in current/recent threads, rather than start clogging up the current front-page with similar articles.
Problem: Reading far too deeply into things
PS3forums
Man, this happens all the time and starts ticking so many people off so quickly. Going back to the GTAIV thread involving Loudninja I mentioned earlier, he has read far too deeply into public-relation quotes from Sony executives to try to prove his point- luckily, this time it was too obvious for everyone and they've had a right go at him for doing it, but it has happened so many times by high-profile members that then starts to spread around the forum.
It's not an issue elsewhere, so i'll leave that..
How to solve it on here?
Delete posts that do it immediately. Lock threads.. infract people for it. Hell, any way of preventing it is drastically needed because at the moment nothing is being done to prevent it.
Problem: Moderators
PS3forums
Wow I'm not going to be liked for saying this, but here goes..
Almost all moderators are clearly biased and it starts to ruin things quickly. Moderators shouldn't have their own agenda of making one console look better than another- they should just be there to contribute to conversation while cleaning it up. They should essentially be the ideal member because they are the people junior members look up to, and when they set the bad example some currently are...
Some moderators also seem to lock threads just because they're not liking what's going on in them.. *cough*Aquanox*cough*. That also needs sorting out, and fast.. because at the moment they just close threads because they feel like it. They shouldn't be moderators.
Other moderators also just lack common sense. It's a great thing to have, and something moderators really need to have in order to know what needs deleted, what someone is actually meaning when they say stuff etc.
The Other Forum
It has 3 active moderators.. but this is because the 'group' I mentioned before help to prevent stupid stuff from happening. Obviously, nothing like that can/would ever happen over here, but it's worth looking at..
How to solve it on here?
I think some senior council members need the boot.. I'm not going to name names, but they're probably pretty obvious from who I coughed earlier. ;)
More moderators need appointed, preferably as neutral as possible with as much common sense as possible. Some might need to be demoted as well, but because of PSU Journalist/Admin ties, I doubt that will ever happen.
There is more... I'm just not posting it now because I'm too tired. Maybe tomorrow if I get the chance...
Mikleran :)
Wow, I thought that this was some CNN report when I read the thread. :lol: :|
Now, this is my take on this whole issue.
IGNORE AND REPORT THOSE IDIOTS TO THE MODERATORS.
Simple, eh? Don't forget that the moderators hae hundreds of reports to attend too... and it's only a forum on the internet, there isn't anyones life in the balance here. :|
Just Report, Ignore, and Move on. That's what I do.
HAHAHA, I dying forum. Made my day. :|
Yeah, it seems everyone here has lost the whole mentality of friendly debate. :/
Well, that my opinion Uncool. Just ignore and move on with your life....
Hmm, I was wondering why I see so little in perma-bans in comparison to infractions. That infractions/warnings are up the ying yang now....and I would have never seen such turmoil with so many members (past and present) and even inner staff differences. I wonder if I can still change something here with whatever power I have left. :/
Yeah, you used to perma-ban just about everyother minute. :)
Yeah, stupidity was down 60%, NASDAQ was up 20%. :/ Maybe when I have a new look and catch up with everything thats been going on here, then perhaps I can save this forum from crumbling since my Europe trip. :/
It doesn't help when posters like GS Kid outright get away with repeated personal attacks. I have thick skin, but some posters leave debate and even the console wars behind and reach a new height of trolling and thread derailing. I really don't like publicly massacring a forum member, but if I report someone at least once a week for derailing topics or personal attacks I am left with very little other choice and having to do so also diminishes how I feel for the board in general.
The OP has some great points, and I'd like to think there are even more obvious ways we can help the community grow and function as well. A culture of positivity is something I've been very much for from the get go.
Maybe I should go on a banning rampage right now. :/ In all retrospect, I have been thinking after E3, this place would be more sustainable to taking damage via trolls, spammers, FUD, etc. But to witness something of this magnitude and somehow stopping it from escalating is near impossible alone. I need to do something about this if no one else will. :/ Perhaps I need to chat with the higher ups and send some lovely trolls on the raod to ****ation. :) WTH d-a-m-n is being censored? :lol:
Maybe I should go on a banning rampage right now. :/ In all retrospect, I have been thinking after E3, this place would be more sustainable to taking damage via trolls, spammers, FUD, etc. But to witness something of this magnitude and somehow stopping it from escalating is near impossible alone. I need to do something about this if no one else will. :/ Perhaps I need to chat with the higher ups and send some lovely trolls on the raod to ****ation. :) WTH d-a-m-n is being censored? :lol:
I couldn't agree more. Uncool, I want you to know that it's not like I actually like publicly executing members. That is like the "Red Button" option to me where I feel almost like it's a "him or me" situation or even a "him and me" situation. If you take a look at some of the threads I have started, you will notice at least one or two of the same people flinging crap... Even on topics that have N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with the XBox360.
Ever since E3, I think some people are getting a small taste of what this forum has had to tolerate for the past year. Unfortunately, it seems like some problem makers from those bleaker days are now in full blown assault mode. In all honesty, I find it amusing. But some people take it beyond even this supposed "console war" and start bearing the claws into each other. Some members to this die try to subvert threads by attacking fellow members.
Anyways, I think you of all Mods deserve my "Red Button" explanation because you have been mature and tolerant in these situations. I'm now at a point where I completely ignore GS Kid and others like him, but the rest of the forum will not and as long as we keep people around who want nothing more than to cause trouble then the cycle will continue. I will only ignore them or silently report them for so long before going "Red Button" on them.
Wow, I actually dont see that much flame going on in the threads I debate in...
I do the best I can to report losers....
...and for the record, it takes a LOT to set me over the edge. I don't pretend to do the Mods job for them.
I know, and from the descriptions Xaor provided as well as the general atmosphere with everyone here thus far since my leave something has to be done. And I left this place happy too. :( BTW, knowing these situations full well, how many members have left and/or banned due to these changes (talking about veterans here not newcomers).
Fishtank
07-26-2007, 18:27
How about don't feed the trolls!!!!
Sure it's hard. Trolls will probably feed each other....
But a little troll on troll action would make it easier to hand out the bans.
Besides, they are just there for the reaction, negative or positive. They are happy with either. I think people just need to do their part and skip over, and report the trash.
There is nothing you can say to the 10% of people who cause 90% of the problems...it's the internet, they don't care.
How about don't feed the trolls!!!!
Sure it's hard. Trolls will probably feed each other....
But a little troll on troll action would make it easier to hand out the bans.
Besides, they are just there for the reaction, negative or positive. They are happy with either. I think people just need to do their part and skip over, and report the trash.
There is nothing you can say to the 10% of people who cause 90% of the problems...it's the internet, they don't care.
Unfortunately, the reply button is strong with everyone. :confused: But I do see the need for cracking down on nonsensical retorts to trolls. They don't deserve the satisfaction. :DD
I'd say the feeling is pretty good with all the PS3 news being good. That being said, there are a LOT of people trying to put stuff on the tracks, if you know what I mean? Take a look at Dead_Zen's post. He was just trying to add some humor. We have some real die-hard Xbox fans here who care nothing for the PS3s success or games. Of course they take every possible opportunity to cause a disruption! Why else would they be here?
Yeah, I'm kinda glad the pricing for the PS3 went down a bit, now its just up to me with bumming money off hobo's->real people. Alright, went I catch up with everything or rather if anyone wants to enlighten me on anything else, I have a lot of reading to do here. >_<
Xaor: when your online fill me in on anything else via PM and I will see what I can do in the next week or so.....
I know, and from the descriptions Xaor provided as well as the general atmosphere with everyone here thus far since my leave something has to be done. And I left this place happy too. :( BTW, knowing these situations full well, how many members have left and/or banned due to these changes (talking about veterans here not newcomers).
As far as I know, Beamer1112 is the only high profile member that has left since you've been gone. He gave all of his points to Panda and left a parting thread in this very section detailing why he was leaving.
Hmm...thats not good, and he's been here for sometime as well. Anyone else? and elaborate if you can about it.
I'd say it's not too much of a matter of who publicly leaves in a blaze of glory, but the people who just burn out and don't log in again.
Well, he received an infraction for discussing in the 360 section, and he felt that it wasn't justified. He was basically being labeled as a troll. He felt that if he was going to be infracted that a lot of other people in the thread should have been as well. Here's the link to the thread he made: http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=86943
Mikleran, I won't deny what I said, and I would defend it but I don't see any reason to, I don't wish to ruin this thread with an argument over that, I thought what he said was stupid, and I replied, and probably was a little over-zealous.
I'm pleased to see that some intelligent discussion has actually been formed in this thread, so far, hopefully some good suggestions can come out of it, as some already have. One thing I'd like to say is that, Mikleran, you say that posts should be deleted if they are going to cause arguments, I agree, and I did do that for a while, the problem is I know that if I delete the post the chance of a moderator then making the extra effort to then punish the member accordingly is incredibly low.
I don't know if this view is shared greatly among everyone, but I really appreciate your upfront open attitude, I most definitely think a close-knit regular community is the best way to move forward as a forum. I think the SMC used to be that... I'm not sure now, there certainly isn't very much contact between the SMC, the SMC forum is dead, often there isn't a post in there for a day or two days, which slightly gets to me. I don't feel there is much... drive, much want between the SMC to actually sort this place out. I have no doubt that most of the mods want it... not all, I think some have given up. The SMC seems to be more of a medal than a duty, which kind of ruins the point of the C (council), what council? Surely a council actually meets and has some kind of power? It either needs to be renamed or the duty rethought.
Blu-Ray, the problem with just reporting them is the actions taken once they are reported, sure ignoring helps but its much better to punish to try and improve them as members, or if necessary ban them, for the benefit of the rest of the members.
Redman_DK
07-26-2007, 20:09
I don't like the idea about deleting posts, can't you just ban the person or give him an infraction and then write on his posts that he got an infraction for that, so people can see that they are not allowed to post such kind of posts.
Sometimes it helps to understand the rules when there are examples, and what could possibly be a better example than other members posts?
Mikleran
07-26-2007, 20:52
Mikleran, I won't deny what I said, and I would defend it but I don't see any reason to, I don't wish to ruin this thread with an argument over that, I thought what he said was stupid, and I replied, and probably was a little over-zealous.
Heh, no problems dude.. I didn't want an argument. It was just one of the few specific examples I could think of off hand.
I don't like the idea about deleting posts, can't you just ban the person or give him an infraction and then write on his posts that he got an infraction for that, so people can see that they are not allowed to post such kind of posts.
Sometimes it helps to understand the rules when there are examples, and what could possibly be a better example than other members posts?
The lack of them. :)
If there was good discussion going on, that is a nice thing to be a part of- then people will be far less inclined to post stupid responses than if they saw other people do it originally. It works elsewhere, so why not here? :)
IGNORE AND REPORT THOSE IDIOTS TO THE MODERATORS.
Just Report, Ignore, and Move on. That's what I do.
It really doesn't work that way. Problems are far, far deeper than that.
Oh, BTW.. general 'unwritten' forumite rule I've experienced elsewhere 'Don't quote long posts if you don't repond to them'. It's frustrating to have to scroll through a repeat of a long post for no decent reason! ;)
One thing I'd like to say is that, Mikleran, you say that posts should be deleted if they are going to cause arguments, I agree, and I did do that for a while, the problem is I know that if I delete the post the chance of a moderator then making the extra effort to then punish the member accordingly is incredibly low.
It seems a little silly you guys get to delete posts yet not punish people.. anyway..
I think a fair few posts on here should just be deleted while not getting a punishment. Most of Loudninja's posts in the recent GTAIV thread should be deleted, because they simply are just pointless and give a bad impression- yet he probably doesn't deserve a 'punishment' for them. I'm not sure.. it does need thinking through. :oops:
I think the SMC used to be that... I'm not sure now, there certainly isn't very much contact between the SMC, the SMC forum is dead, often there isn't a post in there for a day or two days, which slightly gets to me. I don't feel there is much... drive, much want between the SMC to actually sort this place out.
Now that is just extremely silly. Do you guys really not even talk to each other?!?
I just think if the SMC got on well with each other, maybe actually doing stuff on LIVE/PSN to improve relationships, the forum as a whole would get on better. I can't see any huge direct benefit of it, but it would just help improve the atmosphere if people actually got on.
It seems a little silly you guys get to delete posts yet not punish people.. anyway..
I think a fair few posts on here should just be deleted while not getting a punishment. Most of Loudninja's posts in the recent GTAIV thread should be deleted, because they simply are just pointless and give a bad impression- yet he probably doesn't deserve a 'punishment' for them. I'm not sure.. it does need thinking through. :oops:
Yes, of course there are those where it needs deletion because its dragging on an argument which can't end like that, whether hes right or wrong, there was never going to be any headway made because the whole premise of the argument is based on speculation. What I meant is there are a lot of situations where the best I could do is deletion, but it makes the moderators job longer if they wish to infract (they have to undelete, then infract, then delete which is quite dull for them), same for warnings etc. (or at least thats how I think it works)
Now that is just extremely silly. Do you guys really not even talk to each other?!?
I just think if the SMC got on well with each other, maybe actually doing stuff on LIVE/PSN to improve relationships, the forum as a whole would get on better. I can't see any huge direct benefit of it, but it would just help improve the atmosphere if people actually got on.
Generally the idea of a council is a group who will get together, and discuss, with obviously in this situation the moderators and the staff, issues the forum is having, that isn't happening, there is very little discussion on the SMC forum, interestingly that's basically what Panda Bear Shenyu said it was like before I was made SMC. Of course, I may be some hated outsider who no one likes, but there you go. Ultimately if there was an actual council working for the good of the forum, the situation wouldn't be as bad as it is. I find it much easier talking to the forum generally on these issues than to the other SMC, not that there are that many active anyway, most have been made into mods, because that population was dwindling. The simple fact is, this thread, with 35 replies, none are from SMC. Now I'm not saying the problem is solely with the other SMC because that isn't true, a little drive from the staff, starting up the discussions and perhaps giving us the idea we do actually have some influence... get the ball rolling if you see what I mean... or else... change the name of SMC to something different? Minor Moderator?
The feeling I get of this forum is a lot of individuals trying hard to do their best, but there is no I in team, unless of course you are Irish, and 50 people working for 50 different goods just pull it in misdirection. 10 working together as a cohesive force on the other hand? That might be a force to be reckoned with. Utopian perhaps but I'm sure it could be a little better than this.
Hmm, I was wondering why I see so little in perma-bans in comparison to infractions. That infractions/warnings are up the ying yang now....and I would have never seen such turmoil with so many members (past and present) and even inner staff differences. I wonder if I can still change something here with whatever power I have left. :/
Because the mods here are supposed to mod with a 'hands off' approach. I think my situation taught us all that.
Hmm, so let me get this straight, no one has been banning as much since my leave?Yeah... I'm a wuss :cry:.
To get a 1 point infraction now you basically have to cut a moderator's ear off, to get a 2 point infraction you have to steal The_One's Ice cream, and to get banned you actually have to murder someone. You steal my ice cream, I call down the thunder :shock:!
Hmm...thats not good, and he's been here for sometime as well. Anyone else? and elaborate if you can about it. I gave him an infraction for trolling. He got pissed, and he left. I couldn't care less :?.
-----------
I just want to say ONE thing:
If we start banning, people start bitching--yes, I'm well aware this is a swear word, and it's a swear word that isn't censored.
I mean, lets look at how many times trolls have been banned, and then CAME BACK because they talked to a higher power (Admins)?
They always weasel their way back in that, quite frankly, it's not even worth the effort to ban them. Just delete their posts and keep them censored. Too bad for them, and less bitching for me to worry about. Actually, they still bitch: Exhibition 1 (http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=88017) :?.
I still hand out plenty of infractions, though. I like the 2 point infractions that never lifts. Wait, that's an understatement. I love 'em :mrgreen:.
Both parties are to blame for this situation. And you need to give a link to what those posts are aimed at, the meaning of a post can change for better or for worst if you simply single it out.
Wow, Beamer left? I never knew that..... I had some great debates with that guy.
I don't understand. When I go up to the PS3 sections, I always find a good, solid to debate thread to post in. I rarely ever see flame, but yet, it's the only thing people complain about. Wow. I might have to consider leaving if all my homie are droppin' from this forum like flies.
MrFenwick
07-26-2007, 23:41
http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs17/f/2007/172/9/6/iBan__Ban_Sword_by_Friedfry.jpg
Its all you need in situations like these.
Both parties are to blame for this situation. And you need to give a link to what those posts are aimed at, the meaning of a post can change for better or for worst if you simply single it out.
Well, in the case that I showed of your stunning posting, I was pointing out, well (I didn't really make this obvious), that when you are being sarcastic, you should usually make it obvious, because its the kind of thing which people get pissy at.
Then again, you are hardly an angelic poster
Reflects the forum pretty well, nicely done.
Lately people get really offended over a warning/infraction. It's fun at first, but when they start making threads over a warning, it starts to get annoying.
I'm having a busy summer so no real moderation right now, but i'm going to be more strict.
Couldn't agree more Naxi, I got 4 infractions (Which I've posted in this thread), I did actually contest one of them at the time, the one for hitting out at JapJap, I did however do this in a PM, which never received a reply (Cera :suspect:) Maybe it was 'feeding the trolls', but the whole idea of punishing those who feed the trolls, only really works if the troll is banned.
To identify someone as feeding the trolls, you must first identify the troll as a troll, and in that case he should be banned.
Then again, I must say we don't have anyone quite as irritating as JapJap at the moment (or maybe I've just become accustomed to it.)
I haven't had an infraction since October of 2006... something I am proud of. :) I wish that there were more members like myself... the forums would be so much better. Instead, we have people wrecking threads on it's 1st post!
Couldn't agree more Naxi, I got 4 infractions (Which I've posted in this thread), I did actually contest one of them at the time, the one for hitting out at JapJap, I did however do this in a PM, which never received a reply (Cera :suspect:) Maybe it was 'feeding the trolls', but the whole idea of punishing those who feed the trolls, only really works if the troll is banned.
To identify someone as feeding the trolls, you must first identify the troll as a troll, and in that case he should be banned.
Then again, I must say we don't have anyone quite as irritating as JapJap at the moment (or maybe I've just become accustomed to it.)Should have worded it better.
You can contest an infraction, but i've received some really stupid PMs.
People don't really give me a reason to reverse it, they don't explain why the infraction was wrong.Instead they always ask "WHYY??" and start hating on me.
Well, in the case that I showed of your stunning posting, I was pointing out, well (I didn't really make this obvious), that when you are being sarcastic, you should usually make it obvious, because its the kind of thing which people get pissy at.
Then again, you are hardly an angelic poster
Not sure why you would point that out... but fair enough I guess?
Mikleran
07-27-2007, 11:23
I haven't had an infraction since October of 2006... something I am proud of. :) I wish that there were more members like myself... the forums would be so much better. Instead, we have people wrecking threads on it's 1st post!
This is exactly the arrogance I was talking about. "I'm so good.. everyone should be like me..".. just having this feeling inside you makes you far from an 'ideal' poster.
'I think there are only two people who should do this job. Me or ###' (RE: Icon manager)
'I've got Photoshop now. I'm ready to be part of the Design Squad.'
First response to someone's art thread: 'I used to be a frikkin' artist.. but I haven't drawn anything in 5 years! (or, in other words, since I was 9!)'
It's arrogance of known members like this which wrecks the friendly feel of a forum just as much as newbies coming along spamming. Don't get me wrong, it's nothing personal because lots of members do it, but it really isn't something an 'ideal' poster has.
:lol:, you've got it twsited. Read the post and try to understand what it's mean first.
"hmmm.... If he's saying that he hasn't had an infraction in a long time, he most have been a very clean member who doesn't flame and spams to a minumum. Wow, I wish everyone of the forums were like that"
Arrogance. Pfft.
Because the mods here are supposed to mod with a 'hands off' approach. I think my situation taught us all that.
Yeah I'm not too old of a fart to not remember that. But I simply don't give up you know? Learned Ignorance ftw!!:DD
Yeah... I'm a wuss :cry:.
I gave him an infraction for trolling. He got pissed, and he left. I couldn't care less :?.
-----------
I just want to say ONE thing:
If we start banning, people start bitching--yes, I'm well aware this is a swear word, and it's a swear word that isn't censored.
I mean, lets look at how many times trolls have been banned, and then CAME BACK because they talked to a higher power (Admins)?
They always weasel their way back in that, quite frankly, it's not even worth the effort to ban them. Just delete their posts and keep them censored. Too bad for them, and less bitching for me to worry about. Actually, they still bitch: Exhibition 1 (http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=88017) :?.
I still hand out plenty of infractions, though. I like the 2 point infractions that never lifts. Wait, that's an understatement. I love 'em :mrgreen:.I never like the permanent infraction so much as a forum destroyer/perma-ban in the mix. ^_^ But you know as well as I do that most who try to comeback more or less never wanted to actually change any way. Besides, that is the reason as I have talked to another Mod from a site, he hardly every bans anyone. If any thing else, they mess with the person's account to know they are under the forums rules.:DD
PS: I actually had VB mods set for Morph to approve/disapprove on noob spamming/trolling/member relocation etc. but it rests on him to actually change the way we do things here with the infraction system or find ways to deal with this present problem.
LoudNinja doesn't really help his cause. Despite him "trying" to remain unbiased, it is quite apparent that he is in fact a Sony fan to the core with little to no respect for the XBox 360. Majority of his postings on this board, outside of news related, are simply not up to par IMO. For the most part they are heavily biased 1-2 sentence statements filled with false information as well as a large amount of spelling and grammatical errors. And people's responses reflect upon those short comings, and IMO are completely deserving.
I may come off as a bit harsh, but I simply have no sympathy for those who make comment after comment for things they have no interest towards.
PlayStation Fascination
07-27-2007, 22:24
LoudNinja doesn't really help his cause. Despite him "trying" to remain unbiased, it is quite apparent that he is in fact a Sony fan to the core with little to no respect for the XBox 360. Majority of his postings on this board, outside of news related, are simply not up to par IMO. For the most part they are heavily biased 1-2 sentence statements filled with false information as well as a large amount of spelling and grammatical errors. And people's responses reflect upon those short comings, and IMO are completely deserving.
I may come off as a bit harsh, but I simply have no sympathy for those who make comment after comment for things they have no interest towards.
You say you own a 360 and a PS3 yet I have not seen you post very many positive things about the PS3.
You say you own a 360 and a PS3 yet I have not seen you post very many positive things about the PS3.
Go through my previous posts, I have said plenty. I currently am going to refrain from posting much of anything in the section due to the constant bickering that is caused by me doing so. I have constantly made it clear that I currently enjoy my Xbox 360 much more then my Playstation 3, and that bias is obviously going to weasel into my post.
LoudNinja doesn't really help his cause. Despite him "trying" to remain unbiased, it is quite apparent that he is in fact a Sony fan to the core with little to no respect for the XBox 360. Majority of his postings on this board, outside of news related, are simply not up to par IMO. For the most part they are heavily biased 1-2 sentence statements filled with false information as well as a large amount of spelling and grammatical errors. And people's responses reflect upon those short comings, and IMO are completely deserving.
I may come off as a bit harsh, but I simply have no sympathy for those who make comment after comment for things they have no interest towards.
Wow, you did come off a bit harsh there. I mean, answer this in as honestly as you can: Does he have to have any respect for the Xbox 360 at all? If he doesn't like it, so what? It not like Xbox360 is the President of the United States or anything. We're all entitled to our own opinions, and I don't think he deserves to be bashed because of your opinions. But Bakari, I can say that I do respect your opinions, and sometimes member do get on your case for no reason sometimes...I've seen it..
But I do agree with you on one thing - the way he post. 90% of the time, he post messages like this: well, the ps3 has better games. Which is a shame for a member of his level because a lot of people depend on him for news (and may he have a high level of respect for him)
But in the end, loosen up a bit, sit back, relax, and just chillllll man. I mean, it's only a forum right? :suspect::???::neutral::p
Wow, you did come off a bit harsh there. I mean, answer this in as honestly as you can: Does he have to have any respect for the Xbox 360 at all? If he doesn't like it, so what? It not like Xbox360 is the President of the United States or anything. We're all entitled to our own opinions, and I don't think he deserves to be bashed because of your opinions. But Bakari, I can say that I do respect your opinions, and sometimes member do get on your case for no reason sometimes...I've seen it..
But I do agree with you on one thing - the way he post. 90% of the time, he post messages like this: well, the ps3 has better games. Which is a shame for a member of his level because a lot of people depend on him for news (and may he have a high level of respect for him)
But in the end, loosen up a bit, sit back, relax, and just chillllll man. I mean, it's only a forum right? :suspect::???::neutral::p
It actually doesn't bother me to much, I am just trying to say that defending his actions is kind of useless and not really deserving.
Mikleran
07-29-2007, 15:52
:lol:, you've got it twsited. Read the post and try to understand what it's mean first.
"hmmm.... If he's saying that he hasn't had an infraction in a long time, he most have been a very clean member who doesn't flame and spams to a minumum. Wow, I wish everyone of the forums were like that"
*sigh*
Whatever spin you want to put on the posts I highlighted, go ahead and do so if it shields you from the truth you obviously don't want to hear.
PS I can tell you now that I'm not the only member on here who thinks this way..
Carsonal
07-29-2007, 16:22
Fanboy posts are usually just bs.
So I just ignore them since they're never very insightful anyway.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again. The main catalyst in these issues are Xbox 360 fans. Why? Because who just signs up for a PS3 forum to post exclusively in the 360 section? 9 times out of ten, these members, including X2, Aquanox, thathurt, sockpuppet, ect sign up with negative intentions.
How does a known 360 troll become a member of SMC? Then people wonder what's going on when bad news 360 topics are locked.
Got problems with fanboys and flaming? Address the lax and inconsistent policies PS3forum administrators permit. Yeah, what I'm saying isn't exactly politically correct, but it's true. All forum members should be treated equal, yet they are not.
For example, Aquanox trolled the Sony E3 relentlessly, was reported at least twice, and what happened? absolutely nothing. One standard for SMC and moderators, another for common members. This doesn't happen at prominent gaming forums like Neogaf (see moderator being demodded for screwing up, heavenly sword dev being banned for bashing pgr4)
On the PS3 side it's gotten terrible as well. Can we require an age limit for registration? Can that age limit be over 18? I'm tired of seeing "omg 360 sukz LOL" all over the place, and the general conversation has gotten so mindless and simplified it's not worth posting much anymore.
Users like Loudninja who do a great job with posting news, but have poor grammatical skills and poor relationships with anyone who doesn't agree with him are repped to high heaven, which does nothing but inflame the current issues on this board, as it is seen acceptable to be that way.
Meanwhile quality posters and mature individuals are shunned and eventually move away from this site, because it simply can't seem to grow up. If you want things to change, it starts with the admin for one. Two, it starts with having a mature and competent, dedicated group of individuals who can efficient handle the responsibilities given to them without bias.
This forum while large, and popular, is a laughing stock to gaming sites that have built a sort of "prestige" amongst gaming fans (which also attract devs and pr), for quality and at the moment, it is well deserved.
Panda Bear Shenyu
07-29-2007, 20:24
Yeah, people are complete idiots here. It literally takes one person to derail a whole thread. Why don't mods ban the trolls and delete their replies instead of locking threads?
Anyhow, I don't feel like I can post something intelligent on this forum and get an intelligent answer.
Just take a look at how my latest awesome thread (http://ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=88605) got trashed because of users like Silent tears and X2 and Bakari being complete baboons.
BingBing
07-29-2007, 20:44
I've said it once, and I'll say it again. The main catalyst in these issues are Xbox 360 fans. Why? Because who just signs up for a PS3 forum to post exclusively in the 360 section? 9 times out of ten, these members, including X2, Aquanox, thathurt, sockpuppet, ect sign up with negative intentions.
How does a known 360 troll become a member of SMC? Then people wonder what's going on when bad news 360 topics are locked.
Got problems with fanboys and flaming? Address the lax and inconsistent policies PS3forum administrators permit. Yeah, what I'm saying isn't exactly politically correct, but it's true. All forum members should be treated equal, yet they are not.
For example, Aquanox trolled the Sony E3 relentlessly, was reported at least twice, and what happened? absolutely nothing. One standard for SMC and moderators, another for common members. This doesn't happen at prominent gaming forums like Neogaf (see moderator being demodded for screwing up, heavenly sword dev being banned for bashing pgr4)
On the PS3 side it's gotten terrible as well. Can we require an age limit for registration? Can that age limit be over 18? I'm tired of seeing "omg 360 sukz LOL" all over the place, and the general conversation has gotten so mindless and simplified it's not worth posting much anymore.
Users like Loudninja who do a great job with posting news, but have poor grammatical skills and poor relationships with anyone who doesn't agree with him are repped to high heaven, which does nothing but inflame the current issues on this board, as it is seen acceptable to be that way.
Meanwhile quality posters and mature individuals are shunned and eventually move away from this site, because it simply can't seem to grow up. If you want things to change, it starts with the admin for one. Two, it starts with having a mature and competent, dedicated group of individuals who can efficient handle the responsibilities given to them without bias.
This forum while large, and popular, is a laughing stock to gaming sites that have built a sort of "prestige" amongst gaming fans (which also attract devs and pr), for quality and at the moment, it is well deserved.
Ok see now i would like to know why you think we need a age limit for people under 18, im 16 i have a brain i use it. Some times i get a little ticked and start going off but i can control my self most of the times not all little kids are retarded, how about a simple thing like you have to go through puberty to join since thats when most people seem to go the mature way. witch is like age 12-18.
MrFenwick
07-29-2007, 21:03
The Mod's are fighting a unending battle. No matter what you do, no matter how many precautions you take it will happen. Its just not possible to get rid of. All you can do is get more Mod's/SMC's to do the job. And its very hard to get everyone.
What needs to be done is when a thread is locked, the mod needs to go through it all and give people punishment where they deserve it.
So if you see this problem, report it, do your part. It may not get handled 5 seconds after you report it. But trust them they are trying there best.
So stop whining about something that will never end. Your in a forum with over 45,000 members and only 55 Mods/SMC/Admins... Thats almost 820+ people per Mod/SMC/Admin. They have a lot of work and there doing it because they want to, not for money, not for anything other then making this place half way usable. And I think they are doing a good job.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again. The main catalyst in these issues are Xbox 360 fans. Why? Because who just signs up for a PS3 forum to post exclusively in the 360 section? 9 times out of ten, these members, including X2, Aquanox, thathurt, sockpuppet, ect sign up with negative intentions.
How does a known 360 troll become a member of SMC? Then people wonder what's going on when bad news 360 topics are locked.
Got problems with fanboys and flaming? Address the lax and inconsistent policies PS3forum administrators permit. Yeah, what I'm saying isn't exactly politically correct, but it's true. All forum members should be treated equal, yet they are not.
For example, Aquanox trolled the Sony E3 relentlessly, was reported at least twice, and what happened? absolutely nothing. One standard for SMC and moderators, another for common members. This doesn't happen at prominent gaming forums like Neogaf (see moderator being demodded for screwing up, heavenly sword dev being banned for bashing pgr4)
On the PS3 side it's gotten terrible as well. Can we require an age limit for registration? Can that age limit be over 18? I'm tired of seeing "omg 360 sukz LOL" all over the place, and the general conversation has gotten so mindless and simplified it's not worth posting much anymore.
Users like Loudninja who do a great job with posting news, but have poor grammatical skills and poor relationships with anyone who doesn't agree with him are repped to high heaven, which does nothing but inflame the current issues on this board, as it is seen acceptable to be that way.
Meanwhile quality posters and mature individuals are shunned and eventually move away from this site, because it simply can't seem to grow up. If you want things to change, it starts with the admin for one. Two, it starts with having a mature and competent, dedicated group of individuals who can efficient handle the responsibilities given to them without bias.
This forum while large, and popular, is a laughing stock to gaming sites that have built a sort of "prestige" amongst gaming fans (which also attract devs and pr), for quality and at the moment, it is well deserved.
Although you seem to be a good poster, I do disagree with most of the things you're saying - especially the parts about Aquanox.
First off, I would like to address this problem with Aquanox that people have been expressing lately. Aquanox is an Xbox 360 fan... yes, we all know this, but does he deserves to get bashed because of that? From all my time of posting here at PS3Forums, I have never seen Aquanox "troll" anything, but I have seem him disagree with alot of forum members and is often the center of hard-fought debates. So that's the forum standard now? Someone who disagrees with PS3 Fans = Troll? In addition, there is also a reason he's an SMC in my opinion - he's very dedicated to the forum, and he's never disrespectful to anyone in my opinion.
Secondly, to add to my disagreement of your post, you said that this site should have an age limit with users only being able to post if they're over 18 :|. There is a major flaw in that - users could just re-register and say that they're older then what they really are:???:. Also, the majority of the forums are people who are under 18 (I think), so most of the forums would be wipped out.
And with me being only 15, I wouldn't be able to post here, which is extremly unfair because I don't troll, flame, and spam to the forums tolerence.
But I can agree with you on the parts about PS3Forums being somewhat of a laughing stock of the internet forum's side. Something obviously needs to be done.... I say we promote more users to SMC? But we're never going to completly stop idiots for posting things like "the Ps3 is teh suX0rZ" and "you have bad grammar" - we can only contain it and hope for the best.
Yeah, people are complete idiots here. It literally takes one person to derail a whole thread. Why don't mods ban the trolls and delete their replies instead of locking threads?
Anyhow, I don't feel like I can post something intelligent on this forum and get an intelligent answer.
Just take a look at how my latest awesome thread (http://ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=88605) got trashed because of users like Silent tears and X2 and Bakari being complete baboons.
Why is it our fault? You posted a topic regarding you and Aquanox about a Playstation 3 game in the Xbox 360 section. I fail to see how that topic has any relevance at all to the Xbox 360, unless of course Aquanox was hired by Microsoft while I wasn't looking? It was a personal topic with zero relevance to the section that should have been sent via PM, don't get angry at people for pointing out the truth. The only point the topic served was to rub the fact that you were correct in Aquanox's face, why exactly would you deem it necessary for the whole forum to know it?
Count me in to the no longer able to post guys Fekz... Curse me for being to young!
Although you seem to be a good poster, I do disagree with most of the things you're saying - especially the parts about Aquanox.
First off, I would like to address this problem with Aquanox that people have been expressing lately. Aquanox is an Xbox 360 fan... yes, we all know this, but does he deserves to get bashed because of that? From all my time of posting here at PS3Forums, I have never seen Aquanox "troll" anything, but I have seem him disagree with alot of forum members and is often the center of hard-fought debates. So that's the forum standard now? Someone who disagrees with PS3 Fans = Troll? In addition, there is also a reason he's an SMC in my opinion - he's very dedicated to the forum, and he's never disrespectful to anyone in my opinion.
Secondly, to add to my disagreement of your post, you said that this site should have an age limit with users only being able to post if they're over 18 :|. There is a major flaw in that - users could just re-register and say that they're older then what they really are:???:. Also, the majority of the forums are people who are under 18 (I think), so most of the forums would be wipped out.
And with me being only 15, I wouldn't be able to post here, which is extremly unfair because I don't troll, flame, and spam to the forums tolerence.
But I can agree with you on the parts about PS3Forums being somewhat of a laughing stock of the internet forum's side. Something obviously needs to be done.... I say we promote more users to SMC? But we're never going to completly stop idiots for posting things like "the Ps3 is teh suX0rZ" and "you have bad grammar" - we can only contain it and hope for the best.
I agree with you as well (not because i'm 14) but because you can't stereotype anyone under 18 as a user who will just be immature and flame -just like you can't stereotype someone over 18 to be mature-.
The 'Troll hunt' on these forums has gotten way out of hand. Simply posting your opinion or prediction etc. gets you labelled as a fanboy or -depending on the forum you post it in- troll who is only out to provoke when in the majorty of times it is only to start a normal, intelligent debate.
Loudninja
07-30-2007, 01:18
Umm no, why should restrict users that are not 18 from posting in the forums?I seem alot of mature posters that were not 18.I seen alot of immature posters that were 30 . Dont signal out and an base on a couple of fools
Beodude123
07-30-2007, 02:09
Count me in to the no longer able to post guys Fekz... Curse me for being to young!
Yeah, you are obviously too immature to be on here, due to your youngly-ness. Plus by the way your icons look, you are a complete Xbot, so should be removed immediately... LoL J/K dude.
While I do enjoy the icons, I think they do add a bit to the fire. I know sometimes I look to someones icons to see which "side" they are on, especially if people are posting in a heated debate. I don't think you should get rid of them, but I think it is easier to brand somebody a fanboy when they are flying the colors if you will.
BluBoi22
07-30-2007, 03:57
First off, I would like to address this problem with Aquanox that people have been expressing lately. Aquanox is an Xbox 360 fan... yes, we all know this, but does he deserves to get bashed because of that? From all my time of posting here at PS3Forums, I have never seen Aquanox "troll" anything, but I have seem him disagree with alot of forum members and is often the center of hard-fought debates. So that's the forum standard now? Someone who disagrees with PS3 Fans = Troll? In addition, there is also a reason he's an SMC in my opinion - he's very dedicated to the forum, and he's never disrespectful to anyone in my opinion.
I would have to disagree with what you said about Aquanox's trolling. I respect him for all the great topics he's made in the 360 section. He organizes the pics, videos, and info of all the games into those huge threads. Although this did confirm that the 360 isn't worth buying for me right now (certainly not what he intended;)), it did make me much more aware of all the great games coming to the 360 and I might buy one sometime in the future. I thank him for this.
He deosn't troll, like going into a thread about a PS3 game and saying "it suxx!1!" However, what annoys me about him is how it seems that he can never accept that PS3 games might look better than 360 games. I honestly have never seen him praise a PS3 game unless he was making a statement like, "X PS3 game looks good, however Y game on the 360 looks better." I know this is a matter of opinion and he can believe what he wants, but I couldn't count the number of times he has brought Gears pics into a thread where people were touting the graphics of a PS3 game (in the PS3 section). Although I don't have a link, a perfect example was a couple weeks ago. It was in a thread about Killzone 2 and people said they thought that it was the best looking console fps.Before long, Aquanox came in with his Gears pics and "better textures" line. He along with this other 360 guy completely derailed the thread. Another mod had to come in and delete his posts along with many others to get the thread back on track. When a mod needs to clear another mod's posts from a thread because they can't help but to belittle another console's game, I think there is a problem.
Then there is his infamous "fake effects" quote about GTHD. He used to trash talk that game a lot, but he seems to have quieted down after the GT5 Prologue was announced with 16 cars and the same pretty graphics. As others have mentioned, he locks threads awful quick when it doesn't hold the 360 in a good light, when really there was no good reason.
Like I said before, I respect Aquanox, but I don't think he is fit to be a mod. He seems to be too stuck in the mentality of "Xbox or die." Much like Lefein, he has gotten much less fanboyish in the past 6 months or so but you would be hard pressed to hear him say something bad about his system of choice. For the same reasons, I wouldn't recommend Lefein as a mod either. I'm not same that I'm any better, but just telling it how I see it.
And about the trollers/flamebaiters, I think a much stricter ban policy is the only way to restore this site to its former glory. I lurked here since around TGS 05 so I know how great this place was. One thing I noticed is that after being perm-banned, many people simply make new accounts and continue doing the same things that got them banned in the first place (Rubics Cube good God!:lol:). I think it's fine if the mods give them one more try, and if they turn things around and become decent members they can stay, but if they screw up again, just IP ban their ass!
I know I don't post here much anymore, but I just thought I would toss in my 2 cents.
Edit: Oh and what happened to the rep power? I thought Lefein and Loud both used to be over 100.
Yeah, you are obviously too immature to be on here, due to your youngly-ness. Plus by the way your icons look, you are a complete Xbot, so should be removed immediately... LoL J/K dude.
While I do enjoy the icons, I think they do add a bit to the fire. I know sometimes I look to someones icons to see which "side" they are on, especially if people are posting in a heated debate. I don't think you should get rid of them, but I think it is easier to brand somebody a fanboy when they are flying the colors if you will.
I do have 5 from one side and 6 from t'other, though I must get round to changing them..
Lefien and Aquanox are equals, only Aquanox is bashed more because he's an "Xbox or die" person. But I do have a certain amount of respect from them.... I wish people had that same respect for myself... :)
However, we should all just STOP complaining and just ignore things. Most of the things I see people make threads over aren't even worthy of discussion. Like "OMG he said I needZ to imporvess on me grammmarr": Don't make a thread over that please. :|
Right now me and AJJets have essentially went on perma-ban/temporary ban's here. This was made in order to reduce trolling and spamming. Moreover, this is a testament to being more stern with members veteran or not to bring this place back up to bearable standards. Of course this is far from over as several more users will be rid off in the next couple of days.
Yeah, I've seen those nasty, ugly, perma bans going around to deserving scum lickers. Nice job dude.
Yeah but don't thank me though, AJJets is quick on those temp. bans. ^_^
MrFenwick
07-31-2007, 03:50
I'm sure they won't be missed....
Lets just hope this is a start for good things to come, I want this place spotless before TGS rolls by.
Bitbydeath
07-31-2007, 04:05
nice to see you back Uncool, i hope your banning powers go out to stealth trolling users with powers if you know what i mean
Err.. I forgot about TGS... crap, I thought I wouldn't need to take my two guns "n00b" and "troll" out of the closet again. I might have to call my father Sparta again while I'm at it. :lol:
nice to see you back Uncool, i hope your banning powers go out to stealth trolling users with powers if you know what i mean
Dude if I could go beserker mode right now on stealth trollers and finish off the remainder I would if I could. I just ran out of sugar lol to burn them all with hellfire.:DD
AJJets107
07-31-2007, 04:16
We need you guys to keep on the look out for OMGAshleySimpson as he was given an perma ban. If any users that find him will be given 1,000 points. He just keeps on coming which it is very hard to Mod when he's around.
Bitbydeath
07-31-2007, 04:17
We need you guys to keep on the look out for OMGAshleySimpson as he was given an perma ban. If any users that find him will be given 1,000 points. He just keeps on coming which it is very hard to Mod when he's around.
Can't you just IP Ban him AJ?
LOL, is this like some type of bounty hunt? :lol:
AJJets107
07-31-2007, 04:21
Can't you just IP Ban him AJ?Only the Admin can IP ban. No more bounty hunting.
Sigh at least I'm not bored now.
AJJets107
07-31-2007, 04:22
I think I beat all the bans to you. :lol:
Lol everytime I banned him, you posted it lol. He obviously loves me since I am the legendary fruitcake Mod.
Bitbydeath
07-31-2007, 04:40
Looks like you guys got your work cut out for you.
Here's another, although i'm sure your already onto it -CONGRATULATIONS_AJ (http://www.ps3forums.com/member.php?u=46867)
LOL I got that one though, I think AJ deserves it.
:lol:
I really dont care if we live in the same state!
LOL okay, this is weird as of now.>_<
Lets just hope this is a start for good things to come, I want this place spotless before TGS rolls by.
Don't forget about Gamer's Convention at the end of August :P
Behemoko
08-01-2007, 05:20
Can't you just IP Ban him AJ?
I know only an admin can, but I really don't think that is of terribly great use, my IP changes itself constantly, lol. (using myself as an example, I hope you don't think I am also pointing myself out as a bad user, lol..)
MrFenwick
08-01-2007, 05:28
Ban the Behemoko!
But yeah, IP ban does work on some, but not all. So its not a definite solution. Maybe putting a virus on there computer so it can't come back, maybe.
Ubersnuber
08-01-2007, 07:46
As long as Mod's don't go soft because some "war leaders" creates threads about how they disagree with the way mods are running the show, I think this may turn out pretty well.
If the staff on this ship hesitate on their decisions (which sometimes have been painfully obvious), you can't expect the passengers to turn out any better.
All I'm saying is that Mods shouldn't let pressure be the final judge, if a lot of people are pissed because of a decision you made, you should stay by it.
To have a truckload of trolls is obviously a bad thing, but having a complete mess in the control tower at the same time, is far worse.
You'll never get to be mr popular in the position you're in, but you probably knew that before you accepted the position you're in now.
Now I'm not saying this is the case, because being on the "outside" I don't really know, but I do suspect that this has been the situation more than a few times.
I won't bother to share my view about the actual topic (the war) as I feel others have covered that part quite nicely already.
As long as Mod's don't go soft because some "war leaders" creates threads about how they disagree with the way mods are running the show, I think this may turn out pretty well.
If the staff on this ship hesitate on their decisions (which sometimes have been painfully obvious), you can't expect the passengers to turn out any better.
Well if you recall, last time I was in a debate like that I kept my backbone right up until my mod powers were used up. ;)
Don't worry... we're pretty set on doing this right... which means not putting up with whining.
Ubersnuber
08-01-2007, 08:54
Well if you recall, last time I was in a debate like that I kept my backbone right up until my mod powers were used up. ;)
Don't worry... we're pretty set on doing this right... which means not putting up with whining.
I'm not 100% sure...I remember there was a huge fuzz about some of your decisions..
Could you give me a linky? Because if I remember correctly, this has a lot to do with what I'm talking about.
Edit:
Just finished reading up on that scenario you were referring to, and yes, that's exactly the kind of modding I'm talking about.
Ban the Behemoko!
But yeah, IP ban does work on some, but not all. So its not a definite solution. Maybe putting a virus on there computer so it can't come back, maybe.
Or send Uncool round to their house with a metal bar?
Carsonal
08-01-2007, 16:31
How about we ban all new users, kinda like the iron curtain.
No one can come in or leave the forums
I have just read this thread and I agree with most of it. The posting quality in the forums has degraded dramatically. I'm not sure to what extent in the PS3 section but in the Xbox 360 section this trolling has reached deeply worrying levels.
I also understand that me actually doing my job in the section will not be welcome by many of you under the very only reason that many believe that being this a PS3 forums, there should be more "trolling freedom" in the 360 section whereas I barely see you ever complaining about the law applied in the PS3 section which most of the time is as strict or even more than in the 360 section. Sure you'll be able to notice more activity in the 360 section by my person, but that's because being this a PS3 forum, there's much more trolling towards other consoles aid by the flood of fanboyism this forum has been suffering from for a while now. Another aspect that helps this conception is that there are way less threads started in the 360 section, so the closed ones were easier to notice.
Said this, I will say I disagree on the accussations made here. It's very easy to go into Witch Hunts by generalizing a commonly known discontent among PS fans and accussing someone for being biased in the "moderation" but what isn't easy is to actually point out especifically where these actions have taken place. The few times this has been done, it's been proven to lack weight.
For what I remember, 90% of the threads you are talking about were regarding the RROD. A topic extensively talked about in the section that even got a Sticky for its discussion. But that's not all. I can't help having the feeling that these complains come from the very only annoyance of not seing their contreversial threads in independent discussions beacuse what I've done almost all the time was NOT to close them, but to Merge them in the Sticky above mentioned. There are similar rules in other sections and that's what the stickies are for, being the difference that in the PS3 section it isn't as strict because stickies are only mentioned in one thread, whereas in the 360 section there are stickies that actually stick in the 1st page (just because they're way less) which is good to me, but its also fair to make it a reason to avoid multiple threads of an already beaten to death subject.
From all the complains I've read here, I'm sorry to say this but most of them sound extremely trivial to me. "I hate how he never accepts PS3 games are better"... "Why did he join here if he's an Xbox 360 fan" "He's a Troll and he jumps on anyone disagreeing with him" (Refering to my posts in defense of the Xbox in general, which barely ever involve an attitude) and things in the line of those complains even go against the original soul of this place which was tolerance against different oppinions. So, to your questions, there's your answer. I've joined here much before most of you did and it was a different place then, where the trolling did exist but the discussions were way higher quality and people was more tolerant. My wishes are to help this place maintaining that spirit as far as I can, so please refrain ever questioning me again Why I am here.
As for the particular cases, I have already explained the ones that were pointed out. I don't ever remind having a discussion or seeing users like "Me Myself and I" participating actively in the 360 section, yet one of his posts is legitimaly moved (and then restored) and it's enough for people like him to join the "Witch Hunt"
I don't want to go deep into every single case here. I'll just say again that Mods and Admins are, of course, free to revise every action I've made here. If they find something wrong with it I'll do my best to work on it, but so far their silence tell me that perhaps they understand that these complains are unfounded and more caused by personal hunts due to disgreements in the way one thinks. I'm more than sure that if a PS fan like Svetlana or The_One followed exactly my steps in the actions made in the 360 section, these complains wouldn't exist, or would be abysmally scarce. Unfortunatelly, the whole forum is already eating their time for their awesome job and I'm usually the first to notice the problems in the "Green Section"