Unfortunately, it just needs to be said..

[Lefein]

When people are starting morale support threads in the Games Section, someone needs to hit the pause button and show you guys what time it really is. As of late, I have been on an anti-consolewars kick and really hoped the forum would pay notice, but it hasn't worked. I might take an infraction for this, I might have to brush my teeth after posting this, and I may have to leave the forum if the Chicken Littling doesn't stop. So, for all of you little fishies out there biting on the PS3 Haterade hook, it's time to look at some important facts.


In July, Microsoft announced it had shipped 11.5 million 360s, short of its self-imposed 12-million-unit goal. In May, Sony said it produced 5.5 million PS3s worldwide, though it has since changed its tracking method to account for consoles sold instead of made. Reps for Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony had not responded to requests for comment on the FT piece at time of publication.
http://tech.uk.msn.com/news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=6125003
So, there you have it folks, a link to MSN itself that should raise some eyebrows. For the record, the rest of the article is quite informative and worth a read.

Let me ask a question now.. What was the last console that sold a little over 11M units a year and nine months into its lifecycle? What was the last console to not break the 20M unit mark in its second year? Answer? It's the Gamecube.. Now, I want you to sit down, shut up, and ponder that fact for a moment.. The 360 is tracking WORSE than the Gamecube up to this point in its lifecycle. Why do I bring this up? Because there is a small yet highly vocal fanbase trying desperately to drag this forum and the PS3 fanbase as a whole down to their level.

How many times have we heard in PS3 Discussion topics that hardware problems haven't slowed down Xbox360 sales? How many times does the 360 come up in the PS3 Discussion area, period? Do you guys ever question the evangelists?

How many times will a game not get a certain score at a given website like IGN and it gets met with an onrush of "OMG, Sony will never beat Halo3 with their crappy rushed software and hard to program for Cell"? Since when did gamers take website scores religiously? For crying out loud, let's take Gamespot just for instance:
Here's their review for Perfect Dark 0: http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/perfectdarkzero/review.html?sid=6140242
And now here is RFOM: http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/insomniacshooter/review.html?sid=6161706
I think it's safe to say that RFoM is alive and well still even in the post Warhawk era..

This leads me up to more recent goings on with the Halo3 hype and how poorly this forum has acted overall about it, and more importantly, how poorly forums and the PS3 fanbase overall has been acting about it as well. To make a long story short, just be happy for them. Halo3 is a pretty fun game, even if it doesn't do a whole lot of anything new. Bungie came up with a fantastic gameplay formula that works well for them and it has become a beacon in the night for a fanbase that has become so demoralized that they have to pick on a launch year consoles sales and software to make them feel good about themselves.

Why is it every month there's a new article about how the PS3s doom is imminent? How come there can't be a single thread about KillZone2 without it spiraling down into a "Halo got KillZowned at E3"fest? Don't you guys see that you are giving a failing system life support by drawing such comparisons? Don't you guys see that everytime you start to look at your PS3 as some kind of failure you are giving these guys exactly what they want? Don't give them the satisfaction, people. All three systems can have a bright future if the respective fanbases can see the politics and drama for what it is. It eats me up inside that I need to make a thread like this but I pray to God that it sinks into your heads that these storms shall pass and there is nothing in the future for the PS3 but great games to play. Period.

[tuaamin13]

True that Lefein. + rep.

People are going crazy about Halo3 and then it ends up in to the derogatory "List War" in which everyone tries to claim their lineup is better than the other person's.

It's freakin' subjective. I'd Take FFXIII over MGS or KZ anyday. That's just my opinion. No amount of list warring can make me change that.

[Lefein]

True that Lefein. + rep.

People are going crazy about Halo3 and then it ends up in to the derogatory "List War" in which everyone tries to claim their lineup is better than the other person's.

It's freakin' subjective. I'd Take FFXIII over MGS or KZ anyday. That's just my opinion. No amount of list warring can make me change that.

Exactly! Whenever I tell people that I like Katamari Damacy, they just look at me funny. Either the system has something for you or it doesn't. The console wars deathgrip on the forums balls needs to just stop.

If people would take some deep breaths, pause a moment, and say to themself "I am a gamer" then I'd never have to make threads like this.

[Dathrill2398]

very well said. and I'll add a few more words since that's too short lol.

[Surur]

In July, Microsoft announced it had shipped 11.5 million 360s, short of its self-imposed 12-million-unit goal. In May, Sony said it produced 5.5 million PS3s worldwide, though it has since changed its tracking method to account for consoles sold instead of made. Reps for Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony had not responded to requests for comment on the FT piece at time of publication.


Having been forced to register to read this forum, I might as well comment.

"In May, Sony said it produced 5.5 million PS3s worldwide, though it has since changed its tracking method to account for consoles sold instead of made. "

Do you understand this line, and its implications? Previously Sony counted PS3's manufactured and shipped to their warehouses, and they were forced to change it to PS3's actually sold to retailers, just like everyone else, hence their shipped numbers going backward.

The NPD and MediaCreate numbers are the only one who tells you what the real installed base is.

If XBox 360 is tracking slower than the Game Cube, where is the PS3 tracking? DreamCast?

[NinjaFridge]

Having been forced to register to read this forum, I might as well comment.

"In May, Sony said it produced 5.5 million PS3s worldwide, though it has since changed its tracking method to account for consoles sold instead of made. "

Do you understand this line, and its implications? Previously Sony counted PS3's manufactured and shipped to their warehouses, and they were forced to change it to PS3's actually sold to retailers, just like everyone else, hence their shipped numbers going backward.

The NPD and MediaCreate numbers are the only one who tells you what the real installed base is.

If XBox 360 is tracking slower than the Game Cube, where is the PS3 tracking? DreamCast?


NPD doesn't count all sales so they aren't going to tell you the 'real' install base

[Surur]

NPD doesn't count all sales so they aren't going to tell you the 'real' install base

They estimate the rest. No-one serious doubt the NPD.

[Lefein]

Where is the PS3 tracking? DreamCast?

Did you know the PS2 only sold 6.4M units in 2000? The Dreamcast was winning ye olde console war at the same point in its lifecycle.

[Carl]

Aweesome post there Lefein matey you definately deserve +rep for that one.

[dbakerstl]

You are right about how poorly the 360 is tracking - but why is no one talking about it? It appears that the PS3 is doing quite well as far as sold consoles YTD, am I correct in saying this?

[Fred333]

Did not know that about the Dreamcast.

[NinjaFridge]

They estimate the rest. No-one serious doubt the NPD.

Estimation? Why should i trust estimation, get it right with actual numbers no estimations or don't bother at all.

[TheBlackNaruto]

I got to agree man. I feel the same way. all I hear is PS3 BASHING yet we have SO MUCH to look forward to(R&C, Haze, UT3, Tekken6, MGS4, TimeCrisis4, Uncharted, Silent Hill5, LittleBigPlanet, KZ2, Home, Heavy Rain, FFXIII, GT5, Jax&Daxter, pain, Socom, WarDevil, White Knight Story, GOW3, KH3, Disega, and folklore just to name a few EXCLUSIVES:lol: LOL) yes those are exclusive games :shock: so that means there are still many more games on top of those like GTAIV and DMC4 for instnace. So why worry about what the other console has when we have as I stated above SO MUCH to look forward to. Let;s just sit back and watch as OUR PS3 comes to full steam and shows that the next-gen is really about:twisted:. +rep for you man...good read and great post...

P.S If anyone wants a good game of TEKKEN DR let me know my PSNID is BringIt23 :snicker

[rader023]

Good post. I agree that its a little out of control. It was fun back in the ps3/xbox days, it seemed pretty good natured at least to me.

I don't think I want to see microsoft fail and I definitely don't want the 360 to die. Competition creates excellence. I may not like microsoft in the big picture, but that is my personal choice. For example, my friend who knows I love the ps3, said he saw a deal on a samsung lcd with xbox360 and halo 3 for $1000 total, and was shocked when I told him that he should do it. Just because I don't own it doesnt mean that someone else is stupid for buying it.

Bill Gates was in Bellevue for the Halo 3 opening and I would have liked to have gone, even though I don't buy msoft products, i think what the company has done in the last 20 years is pretty crazy.

[rikwakefield]

Is there a paticular reason you've decided to create this thread?

[Surur]

Estimation? Why should i trust estimation, get it right with actual numbers no estimations or don't bother at all.

As I said, no one thats serious doubt the NPD. You are obviously not.

[jakncoke]

Another thing that gets on my nerves about this site is that 96% of the member seem to care just about sales rather than games.

[Lefein]

Is there a paticular reason you've decided to create this thread?

It should be fairly obvious. I'm doing whatever I can to put an end to the console warring on this forum. Although it's a great departure from the past, I feel that it is the right thing to do.

[Kauldron]

The PS3 will have its first real christmas sales this year.

No supply constaints. I would like to see how it fairs.

+rep Lefein

[chartwel]

Another thing that gets on my nerves about this site is that 96% of the member seem to care just about sales rather than games.

yes, all people seem to care about is sales, or what a website or magazine rates a game as. sad days indeed.

[Aeryal]

Actually, the PS3 *should* be doing a lot better. It had the most developer support last gen AND 5x installed base. Why does everyone ignore this and just say PS3 is doing as well as the 360 last year? This fact alone I see as a victory for MS. You guys speak like Playstation is a new contender to the video game market and therefore there is nothing wrong with these mediocre sales.

[Lefein]

Another thing that gets on my nerves about this site is that 96% of the member seem to care just about sales rather than games.

So true. The sales will pan out one way or another. I don't exactly recall internet forums being abuzz with "Im going to buy a PS2 because it will outsell the Dolphin and the Dreamcast!" back in the day.

[SoulDude]

Good stuff Lefein!!

I find the so-called console war a total turn-off. Games are what it's about, though other aspects of multimedia are included in this generation.

I like all games. I take an interest in games such as Bioshock on 360 that look very good in my opinion. I don't post ridiculous articles saying 'oh yeh, but we've got KZ2 coming, nah nah nah!' You have to respect what's in front of your eyes.

My point is, have respect for others and their views, but be happy with what you've got.

In fact, be VERY happy. I still can't believe how good my Playstation 3 is. It's an incredible piece of technology and anyone who dismisses it out of hand makes themselves look rather embarrassing to be honest.

The games are coming. Don't make silly comparisons. Enjoy it. Games should be enjoyed. AND WE WILL ENJOY THEM. THEY WILL BE SOME OF THE BEST GAMES WE HAVE EVER SEEN. PERIOD. And I say that with all due respect. :)

[rader023]

yes, all people seem to care about is sales, or what a website or magazine rates a game as. sad days indeed.

I agree, and its also strange. With the advent of online playable demos, next gen rentals, HD game trailers, etc. You would think that people are more easily swayed by their own experience with a game. It seems to me that while the barriers to owning a system have gone up, the cost of trying new games is less than ever before.

[TheMadTitan]

WOW i knew gamespot was bias but wow.

RFOM gets a 8.6? and Perfect Dark Zero gets a 9?:suspect::confused::shock:

wow mam.... jus..... wow.....

there word means absolute ZERO to me now

[Kauldron]

So true. The sales will pan out one way or another. I don't exactly recall internet forums being abuzz with "Im going to buy a PS2 because it will outsell the Dolphin and the Dreamcast!" back in the day.

Hey, I like sales. It let's me know that my system is viable for devs.
However, I don't care about the Xbox or how much they sell.

I enjoy the variety that Playstation games bring.

My point is that sales are important but it does nothing to describe the
quality of the system.

[sorrow880]

People are going crazy about Halo3 and then it ends up in to the derogatory "List War" in which everyone tries to claim their lineup is better than the other person's.

It's freakin' subjective. I'd Take FFXIII over MGS or KZ anyday. That's just my opinion. No amount of list warring can make me change that.I agree that "judging" games is subjective--for some Beautiful Katamari may be more appealing and a "better" game than MGS4; however, the logic fails when you say you cannot compare line-ups objectively. You can!

I love my ps3 and my 360...but their respective line-ups can be compared based off of previous track records...Grand Turismo 3--sold 15 million copies worldwide-- (which I can't stand the Grand Turismo games--I think they suck) But, because of its sales, it can be said to be a more dominating game than Ninja Gaiden 2 will be (just for example)...the Grand Turismo series has proven itself by it's PREVIOUS SALES HISTORY...It's safe to objectively compare console line-ups based off what games have done in the past...I think it's safe to say that Fable II will definitely outsell Star Ocean 4 (look at the sales of Fable I and the cult following it has developed)

The problem is NOT the hardware/software comparisons and predictions...it's when people take the comparisons and predictions too far and try to create flame wars by being too passionate for a particular system. I'm a business major and love the analytical side of predicting hardware and software sales...but I try not to be biased towards a particular console in an immature way...unfortunately, not everyone does the same. I felt the 360 had the better software line-up in 2007 (sales PROVE my point--my personal preference of games doesn't matter a hoot) and I feel that the ps3 will have the better software line-up in 2008 (we'll have to wait and see.)

Summary: I enjoy "List Wars"...it's the derogatory part that I don't like...(guns don't kill people, people kill people)

[Gtek500]

hey! 360 is not dying theres still hope for a new halo....isnt there? what about! gears of war 2! wait the first one i hated. um viva la pinata! wait thats a baby game. well multiplatform games! wait i have a ps3.

either way without halo there wouldnt be killzone, haze or resistance why? because most of those games were based off of halo. kind of like crash vs mario. who knows maybe microsoft will turn into a sega and just make games because who wouldve thought that sonic would be on playstation, nintendo and xbox. 360 is in a crappy situation theres no doubt about that comparing it to 2 systems that offer free online and almost everything you need for it out the box. Its failure rate doesnt help it either. You cant say gears and halo are exclusive if i can get it for pc and im pretty sure though we all may not be able to run it we can play it on the computer because we all have a pc already. Halo is a good game, gears is not (to me) so theres no need for me to buy an xbox unless they had more good games for it and just because the game gets a 9 doesnt mean its good. just like perfect dark 0 and gears. Its not fanboism its the truth resistance was an awesome game i still play it so was lair and heavenly sword. People are just too stupid to see how marketing works. Its so easy to bash sony in america because this country doesnt make money if we give our money to sonys products and not MS. Vice versa in japan with 360 and ps3.

[Thegamingdwarf]

It should be fairly obvious. I'm doing whatever I can to put an end to the console warring on this forum. Although it's a great departure from the past, I feel that it is the right thing to do.

I applaud your efforts, i really do, and i couldn't agree with your new found ethos more, however i think you are going to have a constant uphill struggle to combat "teh console warz!1!!1" mainly because of a 3 things, the first of which is that you are one person, admittedly, there are a great deal of members (myself included) that want it to stop, but i think these members, gamers and people need to, for a lack of a better word, unite, to achieve any progress.

Secondly, you will have to pick your battles incredibly carefully, as it is very easy to "console war" within the points you pose against the whole situation, to prevent this, i would suggest, as an example, to refer to the consoles via company, rather than brand. This in itself is probably not enough, however if you generalise significantly in terms of gaming past, present and future, it will probably generate a far greater positive attitude, which in essence is what needs to happen.

A third point would be that this is a gaming forum, and if morph has his way, it will get alot bigger and the problem will get worse, mainly because gamers are reasonably intelligent when not mouthing off, compared to the general population. Now the general population has not got a frigging clue what a console war is, so this "problem" is not that greatly widespread in the overall scheme of things, however it does ruin discussion, so it would be best to find a way to get gamers to stop over thinking everything and enjoy it, rather than taking it to peices (an eg. would be the leaked halo 3 ending and its scrutiny).

Your post, although true in most places, sounds far too arrogant and intimidating for most, and that i think is the wrong way to go about things, because in essence you are acting and reacting like a gamer would, and therefore not really helping the problem this forum, and the web, has. I admire the fact that you point fingers at both sides of gaming spectrum, however, in a way i feel you think too highly of people in the situation they are put in, unfortunately, people take things WAYYY too seriously, and because of that think highly contrasted in the way that its either one or the other, where as in fact it is neither.

I thank you for your last comment that all 3 systems have a brigt future, in their own respective right, the difficult thing to say is that none of the consoles were meant to be compared. Yet, regaurdless, they are, and we have to deal with it, i'm as of yet, not so sure how precisely, but i think you are aiming at the right direction.

This is just my opinion and advise, i am not critisizing you, or anyone for that matter, its just advise and opinion (that on this forum usually gets confused as fact, props to the PR people for that load of BS confusion), take it as you wish.

[Lefein]

WOW i knew gamespot was bias but wow.

RFOM gets a 8.6? and Perfect Dark Zero gets a 9?:suspect::confused::shock:

wow mam.... jus..... wow.....

there word means absolute ZERO to me now

I wasn't even trying to say that they are bias, necessarily. Just that reviewers can get it wrong and shouldn't be used as some kind of barometer for a games quality.


I thank you for your last comment that all 3 systems have a bright future, in their own respective right, the difficult thing to say is that none of the consoles were meant to be compared. Yet, regardless, they are, and we have to deal with it, I'm as of yet, not so sure how precisely, but i think you are aiming at the right direction.
Oh, I know I am putting a finger in a cracking dam. I know the two systems will be compared until Gabriel blows his horn.. However, I think they shouldn't be compared irrespective of reality. If PS3 fans are sweating bullets, it doesn't make sense. Did anyone expect a $600 console to take off like the Wii or something? I think a certain other fanbase is simply taking maximum advantage of the perception and trying desperately to turn that perception into reality. That is where I draw the line.

The madness that has been architected in this forum is deliberate and quite widespread. I'm just hitting the breaks, even if they give out and this little rant of mine goes spiraling into the same internet abyss as the Weeee squirrel and Everyone Has More Sex Than Me.

[SoulDude]

Hey, I like sales. It let's me know that my system is viable for devs.
However, I don't care about the Xbox or how much they sell.

I enjoy the variety that Playstation games bring.

My point is that sales are important but it does nothing to describe the
quality of the system.

I agree. Sales obviously are important. But gaming quality is king.

[Tibiquera]

Just my 2 cents: the ps2 was the clear winner last time, but that didn't mean xbox and gamecube owners didn't have fun. In fact, many never bought a ps2.

So let's pretend the ps3 doesn't win this time around. So what? I don't care which one wins, I care about which one will give me a better time.

And it's great we have the 360. Can you imagine how the PSN would be if there wasn't the xbox?

[Leviticus]

Is there a paticular reason you've decided to create this thread?


Do you have trouble understand what you read or something or just trying to start something here.

What Lefein post is something that need to be said, to the Sony fan-base. Something I was going do myself because it need to be said period.

[Sino]

I got a problem, show me a new IP that was announced in the last few months to be Xbox360 exclusive in response to the "weak" PS3 sales. Don't tell me Mass Effect or Two Human, a bunch of those games were decided to be exclusive way before Xbox360 was out. My point is the so called poor sales of PS3 hasn't deter any support from any publishers or developers at all, in fact they have more support now. NCSoft(PC), Factor 5(Nintendo), Ninja Theory(Xbox), and Epic(PC), they all have worked for different platforms last gen than PS2, and right now they are supporting PS3 offering exclusive games to them, and it's not all of them. Not to mention Sony is funding or publishing original titles for independent developers like Media Molecular, thatgamecompany, EatSleepPlay and Jonathan Mak who made EverydayShooter. To me Microsoft has stalled in their progression if they are happy about where they are now, I say it's time for them to do some catch up.

[Bronx666]

I have m8's that all have 360's and go on about how the PS3 is doomed etc all that kinda crap, but i don't argue, i just say, i like the PS3, it's a great machine, and it has the games i want and that's why i bought it, then i don't say anyting else and that usualy ends the argument, i wish people wouldn't go on and on about this, all the systems are good in there own way, buy the one you want, and be happy with it, besides it's all just a matter of opinion.

[CasualGamer]

I attributed the 360's success due to it being it's second year. Having time to get on it's feet and coming off of it's gears of war hype, with great games threw 2007.

PS3 will end this year strong on a good note, with R&C and Uncharted. Going into 2008 with a juggernaut of a line up.

Just enjoy games now. I mean, 2 years of awesome games coming out. Why should anyone complain? Possibly some of the best times to be a gamer are right now.

With that said, why doesn't someone just make another forum where Fanboyism is completely shunned to the point of banning ;) Forum for gamers with out all the doom and gloom of one console or another.

[Lefein]

I got a problem, show me a new IP that was announced in the last few months to be Xbox360 exclusive in response to the "weak" PS3 sales. Don't tell me Mass Effect or Two Human, a bunch of those games were decided to be exclusive way before Xbox360 was out. My point is the so called poor sales of PS3 hasn't deter any support from any publishers or developers at all, in fact they have more support now. NCSoft(PC), Factor 5(Nintendo), Ninja Theory(Xbox), and Epic(PC), they all have worked for different platforms last gen than PS2, and right now they are supporting PS3 offering exclusive games to them, and it's not all of them. Not to mention Sony is funding or publishing original titles for independent developers like Media Molecular, thatgamecompany, EatSleepPlay and Jonathan Mak who made EverydayShooter. To me Microsoft has stalled in their progression if they are happy about where they are now, I say it's time for them to do some catch up.

We don't even need to go that far with it. Katamari Damacy and Ace Combat are coming to the PS3 after all. MGS4 has stayed on the PS3. FFXIII is also staying put. NONE of this supposed developer support damage has come to pass. In fact, Sony has won support from devs that have stayed away from the PS2 like Bethesda, Epic, Crytek, Team Ninja, and Just Add Monsters (now Ninja Theory)..

If the PS3 is destined to fail, it's not by any of the threats levied on it from a particular fanbase or its execs. DMC4 went multiplat and the fanboys went nuts.. Now it's crickets. Bring it up in a discussion over at one of their forums and watch the flat out denial or cricket chirping that ensues.. Joystiq went so far as to post a Kojima bashing article after E3 because they didn't get their way. I'm not even going to start on that 1UP debacle that happened more recently.

[Mecha_Daddy]

Great post! Hopefully people start to realize that competition is a GOOD thing. I have a Wii as well as a PS3, and I may have a 360 when they're reliable. Games are supposed to be about having fun.

[cowboy_fu]

I have to agree with you guys, enough talk about the war, and especially sales numbers (who really cares?). The sales of the new consoles (ps3, wii, and 360) are all lower than they would have been if the ps2 were discontinued like the original xbox was. The fact that an older console is out there going strong and at a more affordable price is going to drive down initial sales. At this point the ps3 and wii are nearing their first year in the market and the 360 is nearing 2 years. At this point comparing sales is useless and it will be until at least two years down the road. Many of the sales of each console at this point are still mostly early adopters anyway.

Also, the games on all systems are fun, I've enjoyed Resistance (PS3), Oblivion (PS3 and 360), Gears of War (360), and Twilight Princess (wii). These systems all have something to offer to th people that play them and I agree with Lefein that we should be on here to discuss the games and systems for their fun and playability.

[Sino]

We don't even need to go that far with it. Katamari Damacy and Ace Combat are coming to the PS3 after all. MGS4 has stayed on the PS3. FFXIII is also staying put. NONE of this supposed developer support damage has come to pass. In fact, Sony has won support from devs that have stayed away from the PS2 like Bethesda, Epic, Crytek, Team Ninja, and Just Add Monsters (now Ninja Theory)..

If the PS3 is destined to fail, it's not by any of the threats levied on it from a particular fanbase or its execs. DMC4 went multiplat and the fanboys went nuts.. Now it's crickets. Bring it up in a discussion over at one of their forums and watch the flat out denial or cricket chirping that ensues.. Joystiq went so far as to post a Kojima bashing article after E3 because they didn't get their way. I'm not even going to start on that 1UP debacle that happened more recently.

Exactly my friend, PS3 has more dev support now than ever before. I'm glad they got more support from devs who had PC background that didn't care for PS2 because it was relatively weak and different, they all have turned around and look at PS3 as a viable platform to create games on.

I just want prove when people say poor PS3 sales result in less dev support, and I doubt they will find any.

[Thegamingdwarf]

Oh, I know I am putting a finger in a cracking dam. I know the two systems will be compared until Gabriel blows his horn.. However, I think they shouldn't be compared irrespective of reality. If PS3 fans are sweating bullets, it doesn't make sense. Did anyone expect a $600 console to take off like the Wii or something? I think a certain other fanbase is simply taking maximum advantage of the perception and trying desperately to turn that perception into reality. That is where I draw the line.

The madness that has been architected in this forum is deliberate and quite widespread. I'm just hitting the breaks, even if they give out and this little rant of mine goes spiraling into the same internet abyss as the Weeee squirrel and Everyone Has More Sex Than Me.

I have a problem with the way you are going about this, mainly because you make it sound as if your are a lone man making a deperate last stand against the impending domination of an invading empire (no offense intended) and to think of it, or to make it sound, like that is not positive at all, in fact, it only fuels either side, because neither side see's the others point of view, and whats more, there shouldn't even be sides to start with!

I agree, they are trying to turn perception into reality, and vice versa, however i think this is evident in the way that neither can admit its inadiquicies (ah, i can never spell that word), and therefore, it makes the other gamer defensive because it sounds like the other gamer is perfect... Which is by no means the case. But then people take this further, in terms of what makes it perefect, because we are intelligent, and in turn, end up describing the finest of fine points in plastic casing blemishes (yes, i have heard that arguement before...).

I would like to gently point out you are not hitting the breaks, you are merely the beginning spark of an idea at the back of most peoples brains at the moment, it will take time for the person to realise the thought, and then act on it by stamping their foot down to halt it. You cannot do this for people, you cannot be watching a 2 cars about to collide and put the breaks on for them if you are outside the car.

I agree, you, which is should probably refer to as plural because it is not just you, we should draw a big black line, preferably before it happens, but if its started, you cannot draw the line to halt a full steam ahead train, it will eventually burn itself out, and thats sort of what i mean by picking battles carefully. There is no point interferring with a conversation, because they, as you said, will take what you say and twist it, therefore you fuel it, its better to just leave it and concentrate efforts elsewhere, much like a zones match in warhawk ;).

+rep for making me laugh at the end though :lol:


I think most game journalists are not "real" gamers. They may play a few games, but in most case they are "casual" gamers. Casual gamers tend to only play four types of games: shooters, drivers, sports, and sandbox games ala GTA. So they make statements like " [insert PS3 exclusive shooter] is the last hope for PS3" or "PS3 has no games."

X360 definitely capitalized on the casual gamer fanbase that the PS2 created. Most people like shooters, drivers, etc because they are easy to pick up, and don't have the commitment of RPGs, RTSs, sims, puzzle, and adventure games. You don't have to use much thought, and rely purely on instinct.

--side note--
Unfortunately for a lot of hardcore gamers, it doesn't always cut it. I've been gaming for almost 20 years starting when Super Mario Bros. on the NES didn't come with Duck Hunt. I pretty much played all genres and an innumerable amount of games. So, a lot of games feel generic to me. But, I give a lot of them a chance, especially when there's a story involved. FPSs got generic for me after Quake 1. (After playing wolfenstein, doom 1/2, rise of the triad, heretic, hexen, and duke nukem.) RTSs also became generic after Warcraft II. (Although WIII made a nice innovation with heroes, and the ability to mod maps into whole different games.) Starcraft II, while it looks awesome, still looks generic from that teaser. I'm really hoping they revolutionize that genre with a new system.

RPGs are getting borderline generic, but I still play for art, story, unique battle/field systems, and musical score. MMOs I play mainly for the community and virtual economic/physical power.
--side note end--

This is why I like Warhawk. I typically don't play shooters anymore, but Warhawk's unique control scheme and challenge make it appealing. Playing with motion controls (with pro flight controls on) make it feel like you're flying when you've mastered them. You can also use real aerial maneuvers which actually work. (I like busting the immelmann turn on people. It's not very practical, but it throws most people off and shakes most missiles)

The point is that while gaming is becoming more mainstream, games in general are becoming more and more generic because people don't have the patience for complex gaming. When people buy games now, it's not an entirely new experience. It's more like an upgrade. It's almost like buying a car. While you'll enjoy a newer, faster, better looking car, the experience is still relatively the same. It doesn't fly and it doesn't go back in time.

Gaming journalists need to have proper credentials and a gaming CV with references to back it up. It should be available to readers so they know if a particular review or editorial is full of crap or not. It would be excellent if an independent site could serve as a database for gaming CVs so anyone could refer to it when they write or read. It would put a lot more clout when they make brazen comments like "PS3 has no games and [PS3 shooter/racer] will save the platform."

Tell me what you think of this, i thought it was an excellent post and illustrates some of your ideas quite well.

[kdogg32]

for some reason ppl have forgot why we buy a ps3 it's because we want the games sony has.. then they jump up and down about halo &: gears i think if we wanted to play them i could have spent 400 and not 600 $$

[Redman_DK]

WOW i knew gamespot was bias but wow.

RFOM gets a 8.6? and Perfect Dark Zero gets a 9?:suspect::confused::shock:

wow mam.... jus..... wow.....

there word means absolute ZERO to me now
Perfect Dark Zero was one of the first next gen games that came out on the first Next Gen console... They didn't really have that much to compare it to.
And if you didn't realise it, PDZ came out a year before Resistance, there comes new standard every year. Just because a game 5 years ago got a 9/10 doesn't mean it's better than a 7/10 game today.


hey! 360 is not dying theres still hope for a new halo....isnt there? what about! gears of war 2! wait the first one i hated. um viva la pinata! wait thats a baby game. well multiplatform games! wait i have a ps3.

either way without halo there wouldnt be killzone, haze or resistance why? because most of those games were based off of halo. kind of like crash vs mario. who knows maybe microsoft will turn into a sega and just make games because who wouldve thought that sonic would be on playstation, nintendo and xbox. 360 is in a crappy situation theres no doubt about that comparing it to 2 systems that offer free online and almost everything you need for it out the box. Its failure rate doesnt help it either. You cant say gears and halo are exclusive if i can get it for pc and im pretty sure though we all may not be able to run it we can play it on the computer because we all have a pc already. Halo is a good game, gears is not (to me) so theres no need for me to buy an xbox unless they had more good games for it and just because the game gets a 9 doesnt mean its good. just like perfect dark 0 and gears. Its not fanboism its the truth resistance was an awesome game i still play it so was lair and heavenly sword. People are just too stupid to see how marketing works. Its so easy to bash sony in america because this country doesnt make money if we give our money to sonys products and not MS. Vice versa in japan with 360 and ps3.

Omg I think I just got a bit dumber by reading your post..
Gears and Halo are exclusives, it's about the consoles, therefor if it's only for one console, it's an exclusive. You're not running around saying the PC is leading the format war either do you?
You're saying Gears isn't good in your opinion, but then you say it's the truth that Resistance is an awesome game... Are you sure that isn't just your opinion again?

[Lefein]

Tell me what you think of this, i thought it was an excellent post and illustrates some of your ideas quite well.

There's not a day that goes by that I do not praise the Mighty Gamer God for things like Echochrome, LittleBigPlanet, Lair, SuperStardustHD, LocoRocco, and Folklore that are undeniable proof that this generation will truly stand out from the ones before it. I am grateful that there is a company willing to walk on eggshells with an expensive system yet daring enough to bring me (if you will pardon the phrase) "out of the box" software like this.

Maybe that comes across as a little bit fanboyish, but when I sit back and try to imagine this generation without the PS3, it doesn't paint a rosy picture. On one hand, you have a platform maker willing to walk the line with past successes and a huge marketing budget and on the other you have a company like Nintendo completely ducking out of the hardware race for the sake of the get-rich-quick mentality that made them a juggernaut in the handheld market..

[natureman3]

The thing is that Lefein, you must understand the position of the people like me : we've been overhyped since 2005 and we did not buy yet a console. You know what : my last console is a dreamcast and will not do that again. ps3 has my interest high. whatever say the teenagers on this forum about the great lineup of 360, i jus find those games for teenagers and i'm not really interested. i love the risk Sony is paying.
But good lord ! what are they doing ? They should just cut the price now, it's preventing many sales. I will track what they are doing but just remember that due to the specifications of the ps3, the real games that going to take advantage of it are going to be high budget. and you can only create such title with a large installed base. It's the only reason why we are interested in sale. we want to reach a critical mass for ps3 otherwise it's gonna be underused and may even be a semi-bomb. It's just the perfect console, so Sony should do an effort. Or maybe Sony is tied because of blu-ray and cannot make it that cheaper otherwise standalone player would sell 0 units and support for this format would vanish. Who knows ?

[upnorthsox]

Another thing that gets on my nerves about this site is that 96% of the member seem to care just about sales rather than games.

And the other 4% spend 96% of their time bashing Lair and Heaven Sword (and are now starting to include Uncharted). Both situations are getting very old and tiresome.

[Cooke_E_G]

Great Post Lefien! + rep if I could! Im very happy with the purchase of my PS3 and cant wait until early next year for reasons that are clearly obvious to any PS3 fan! I dont know about you but I havent been "waiting" for next year either...I have been very content with R:FOM, Oblivion, WarHawk, HS, Lair, Motostorm. I even get to look forward to RC, Haze, Uncharted...which all look amazing. Xbox has and had some great games this year that I have played ay my friends house! I dont see wither system going away soon and I see the PS3 exploding in sales later this year and early next year IMO! I can even look forward to playing Mass Effect at my friends house as well!

[-=*7*=-]

Excellent post Lefein! Been busy and not posting much lately. Good to see you're attempting to rally the troops not to fight amongst themselves, but to realize this is all about the games on our system. Many of which aren't even out yet. So much positive to look forward to and it's time for us to put the blinders on in the race and focus on what we have coming our way. Then sitting back and enjoying the games in spite of the review sites over hype for the competition!

We should not compare PS3 to any of the competition or respond to the hate. PS3 is beyond the hate. It's just an endless cycle where every gamer loses on all sides of the competition idiots in shirts and ties that don't even know what holding their own controller feels like in their hands. But gamers know!!!

I mean obviously the reviewers out there are all way off base with the actual fans and gamers. Take a look at the ratings for Halo at 1UP for instance, it seems Reviewers are artificially rating Xbox 360 games up and fans are rating them down. Where the opposite is true for PS3 games. Reviewers are rating them artificially low and the gamers and fans actually playing them are rating them up higher than the reviewers!

What's going on? Who really has it right and is someone palming $bucks$ somewhere? All I know is no way should a game be considered for GoY Award just because it's for nexgen system. I went back and played God of War II and no way should it NOT be considered for Game of Year. Same said for Bioshock should it win over a game like God of War II.

Something has gone drastically wrong with the Reviewer System and it no longer is about picking the best games. Which is obvious from the gaps in user's reviews and all these for hire reviewer sites! We need to listen to the people actually buying and playing the games, which it appears is beginning to happen with some of the threads we see hear!

Halo 3? Forget the hype, they couldn't make a game as good as Gears so M$ opened up it's wallet! Is that the way to win a Console War? Do it like good ole GMC and Ford. Don't spend money on solid quality products blow it on ADVERTISING, hype incentives and NEW TOYS for the Bosses!!! ;)

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3163125&sec=REVIEWS
That's for Halo! Want to see the opposite effect for PS3 Games? Check out any site where PS3 Gamers have actually played LAIR! Shockingly reversed for the two consoles!

[Lefein]

The thing is that Lefein, you must understand the position of the people like me : we've been overhyped since 2005 and we did not buy yet a console. You know what : my last console is a dreamcast and will not do that again. ps3 has my interest high. whatever say the teenagers on this forum about the great lineup of 360, i jus find those games for teenagers and i'm not really interested. i love the risk Sony is paying.
But good lord ! what are they doing ? They should just cut the price now, it's preventing many sales. I will track what they are doing but just remember that due to the specifications of the ps3, the real games that going to take advantage of it are going to be high budget. and you can only create such title with a large installed base. It's the only reason why we are interested in sale. we want to reach a critical mass for ps3 otherwise it's gonna be underused and may even be a semi-bomb. It's just the perfect console, so Sony should do an effort. Or maybe Sony is tied because of blu-ray and cannot make it that cheaper otherwise standalone player would sell 0 units and support for this format would vanish. Who knows ?

Being overhyped is your own fault. Actually, not being able to properly handle your own upset is a bigger problem. Without pointing the finger at anyone, I just want to know why it is that Sony has to announce an FF7 remake or a price drop at TGS or they fail as a company and let their fanbase down?

You guys put more pressure on Sony and yourselves than is healthy. Don't you see that it's people that get all worked up like that that are the ones sitting miserably in the dark? You can't be happy that games like Ace Combat and Katamari Damashi are not headed to the PS3? How about the fact that Sony DIDN'T have to drop the price in order to sustain their business? No, you go about screaming the sky is falling and open the door for every freaking (dare Is ay it) Xbot and their pet gerbil to goad you on and on until you are a pain to this forum and to yourself.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see you post one day that you have sold your PS3 and bought a 360 and that it is the best decision you have ever made... Why? Because you won't allow yourself to be happy with the PS3 until Kaz Hirai flies on a personal jet to your house to announce that the PS3 will now be free worldwide. Selling your PS3 for a Wii or a 360 probably is the best thing that could happen to you, because it is the only way you will ever find peace. It's the only way you will ever find closure with your unrealistic expectations. And when you come crawling on hands and knees back to this forum after you bought a PS3 again for God of War 3 or whatever, I will still be here to laugh at you. By that time the PS3 will probably be around $300 or even less, and you will have learned your lesson that this is about the games, not Sony.

[spazchicken]

There's not a day that goes by that I do not praise the Mighty Gamer God for things like Echochrome, LittleBigPlanet, Lair, SuperStardustHD, LocoRocco, and Folklore that are undeniable proof that this generation will truly stand out from the ones before it. I am grateful that there is a company willing to walk on eggshells with an expensive system yet daring enough to bring me (if you will pardon the phrase) "out of the box" software like this.

and don't forget flOwer! :p

Even though the 360 is getting more of a varied game selection compaired to the origional xbox, it still doesn't compair to Playstation still. The whole point of me getting a PS3 was because of the games (blu-ray was a bonus). There are some awsome games comming out for PS3 in the near future, and I'm sorry but Gears of war and Halo 3 are not my type of games.

I did enjoy Halo 2, it's not something that I'd buy for myself. We have Halo 3 and it's....well...halo, I'm also not interested in Mass Effect either.

If it wasn't for PS3 being here I don't think I would have bought a console this generation.


You guys put more pressure on Sony and yourselves than is healthy.

it's also the media, hence the CNN PS3 suxurs thread today.

[Destructo]

I have all three systems and really enjoy them all. I'm not a fanboy of any system...

For online play (and single player for right now) I prefer my 360 by far.

But there are some great games out and coming out very soon for the PS3, so i'm glad I own it as well.

I don't get the whole "my system is better!" why? Because you own it? Big deal.

[Dr.Drake]

These sorts of threads are what keep me coming here, and why I hated Live and the Xbox's fanbase when I owned the Xbox 360. And yet, I feel guilty for saying that, as it makes me as bad as some of them. It does seem like an obligation to fight fire with fire these days... Fearfully, the immaturity may never stop as long as the industry expands beyond the amiba.

[pctrips]

I thought we probably hit a new low this week when a Halo 3 dedicated forum was requested. That just floored me.

[TrUe GaMeR]

Actually, the PS3 *should* be doing a lot better. It had the most developer support last gen AND 5x installed base. Why does everyone ignore this and just say PS3 is doing as well as the 360 last year? This fact alone I see as a victory for MS. You guys speak like Playstation is a new contender to the video game market and therefore there is nothing wrong with these mediocre sales.

I was waiting for someone, anyone to reply to this post but no one stepped up.

Lefein, if you're going to go back and use history and talk about the Dreamcast, Xbox, Gamecube, etc, why skip over that little post I quoted.

Fact is PS2 sold over 120 million consoles. Everyone including all of you who are in this thread posting thought that the PS3 would walk all over the competition. It didn't, at least not yet.

So can someone, anyone reply to the post I quoted from Aeryal. It was at the top of the 2nd page and now were near page 4 and no one replied to it? It must hold some type of truth in it.

So many other things I could say but I will leave with this since this is a kind of positive thread for the PS3.

[Lefein]

I was waiting for someone, anyone to reply to this post but no one stepped up.

Leifein, if you're going to go back and use history and talk about the Dreamcast, Xbox, Gamecube, etc, why skip over that little post I quoted.

Fact is PS2 sold over 120 million consoles. Everyone including all of you who are in this thread posting thought that the PS3 would walk all over the competition. It didn't, at least not yet.

So can someone, anyone reply to the post I quoted from Aeryal. It was at the top of the 2nd page and now were near page 4 and no one replied to it? It must hold some type of truth in it.

So many other things I could say but I will leave with this since this is a kind of positive thread for the PS3.

I agree overall with what you're saying, so I'm just going to say in my defense that it was the troll who even mentioned the word Dreamcast before I went there. Hell, my personal opinion is that none of the three systems will go the way of the Dreamcast. In fact, the Wii overtaking the 360 is current gen proof that an early lead does not guarantee success. That's all I was getting at.

[esonique]

Excellent post Lefein (http://ps3forums.com/member.php?u=2811).

I must agree that all I see here is post about such-an-such is going to pwn such-an-such 360 game.

or: Developer A is being paid by M$ thats why our port is crappy.

These are reasons why I rarely come here or post here.

Im a gamer FIRST, supporter 2nd.

Before PS3 I owned a 360 and had alot of fun with it. I am a Sony fan by heart, not because of the system but the games that were available for it in the PS2 days.

If Xbox put out the games I wanted to play (Not FPS after FPS and sandbox game after Sandbox game), I would still own it.

Another point: Graphics do not sell a game, gameplay sells a game.
We get all these new games that come out Multiplat and all people care about is which system looks better or who's screwing who on the port because game 'A' has better textures or AA than game 'B'.

Who the hell cares! Be fricken happy your getting a game at all. If developers DIDN'T listen to us bi*ch, all the PS3 games would be delayed until they learned the system instead of porting it. But since people bitch, we get lame-ass ports with bugs.

But you know.... Im going to end here now. Im starting to piss myself off just thinking about all this. I could write so much more but no one listens to reason here but a select few.

[pctrips]

Well I guess I'll address it with my opinion. I don't know that it should be doing better really. The first reason is that the PS2 is still supported. New games are still being released for it. Including strong titles like God of War 2. I think you combine that with a high price and it dampens the incentive for the userbase to migrate. I think once the new MGS game releases and potentially another price drop, we'll begin to see some more migration of that user base. Your logic is a bit flawed in calling this a victory for Microsoft, the only way this could be considered a Microsoft victory is if you had factual information that the PS2 user base has already migrated to the 360 which I haven't seen any data to corroborate.

[upnorthsox]

I was waiting for someone, anyone to reply to this post but no one stepped up.

Lefein, if you're going to go back and use history and talk about the Dreamcast, Xbox, Gamecube, etc, why skip over that little post I quoted.

Fact is PS2 sold over 120 million consoles. Everyone including all of you who are in this thread posting thought that the PS3 would walk all over the competition. It didn't, at least not yet.

So can someone, anyone reply to the post I quoted from Aeryal. It was at the top of the 2nd page and now were near page 4 and no one replied to it? It must hold some type of truth in it.

So many other things I could say but I will leave with this since this is a kind of positive thread for the PS3.

Sure it should be doing better esp. with the advantages it had coming in, no argument from me on that (nor Sony in all probability) but there's a long way between should be doing better and dead.

[ShinMaruku]

The PS3 will have its first real christmas sales this year.


No it won't. This Christmas is for past owners not new owners.

And as for the Chickent littles and the hasty *******s, man is a hasty race for the most part and it's the few who really know how to move with the flow.
I say pay no mind obviously Halo got them shook it's something the PS3 does not have the equivalent of until next year so move with the flow people. Who said this crap will be easy? Could have been but as you know Sony's heads were not necessarily on Earth and aptly they were moved.

[Destructo]

This christmas will be a huge factor for sales. for both companies.

I really hope Sony has some huge titles to release before christmas.

[Saigon]

yes this does need to be said...i know there are several lurkers around here...starting trouble for no reason and spreading FUD because they beleive in the power of their choice console...which is not the ps3...and this makes me sick...especially when newbs believe what they are saying...we do need to keep our power rolling with the truth...and not care what these individuals say...but at the same time we must correct them if they make a mistake or provide mis-information in a statement...

[nick²]

I thought that post was funny.

It seemed like you were insinuating that the 360 is going to be like the gamecube. Maybe it is selling at about the same level as the gamecube... You know why? Its $400. If the PS3 dropped to $400, it still would be behind the Wii.. you know why?

Parents arent buying their kids $400 consoles over a $250 console.

It seems very clear that the Wii has won. Consoles have just gotten too expensive, and the market has reacted harshly. Sales of the 360 and ps3 won't ever reach a number close to the volume of the PS2. Sales won't pick up for another 2 years when they can really slash their prices.

That is just the harsh truth...

[MrG]

I feel quite ashamed for reading that, though I don't think I do those things. But just as a defence to those who may say I do, I get p*ssed off at Halo because it's made out to be the holy grail of games that developers should aim for, but it's just an FPS for crying out loud! the only revolutionary thing an FPS can really do anymore is graphical enhancements... and I just don't see that in Halo, it dosen't appear to look any better that RFOM, Whereas (and I'm sorry to say this but you opened the door for it) Killzone 2 appears to be miles ahead graphically but seems to be downplayed everywhere but Zillzone specific threads.

But it dosen't seem right to judge each console by just one title, and this early on into their lifespans, Look at PS2 for instance, nearly a decade of games but they're still improving, take a game like Spyro, 2002? Skip about five years ahead and look at God of War 2... I should hope that both systems (I don't count Wii because I don't like it...) still have plenty of potential, or else it's going to be a dull few years.

[Pantyhelmet]

I was waiting for someone, anyone to reply to this post but no one stepped up.

Lefein, if you're going to go back and use history and talk about the Dreamcast, Xbox, Gamecube, etc, why skip over that little post I quoted.

Fact is PS2 sold over 120 million consoles. Everyone including all of you who are in this thread posting thought that the PS3 would walk all over the competition. It didn't, at least not yet.

So can someone, anyone reply to the post I quoted from Aeryal. It was at the top of the 2nd page and now were near page 4 and no one replied to it? It must hold some type of truth in it.



..as if the FIRST xbox never existed and the 360's core fanbase appear out of thin air? you pretend the 360 hadn't already had a full year to woo gamers, and of course ; the fact a $500-$600 console still managed to do just as well if not better than a cheaper one (same timeframe)that really had NO competition at the time..i hope you understand why Aeryal's post was ignored.

[Saigon]

I thought that post was funny.

It seemed like you were insinuating that the 360 is going to be like the gamecube. Maybe it is selling at about the same level as the gamecube... You know why? Its $400. If the PS3 dropped to $400, it still would be behind the Wii.. you know why?

Parents arent buying their kids $400 consoles over a $250 console.

It seems very clear that the Wii has won. Consoles have just gotten too expensive, and the market has reacted harshly. Sales of the 360 and ps3 won't ever reach a number close to the volume of the PS2. Sales won't pick up for another 2 years when they can really slash their prices.

That is just the harsh truth...

that was not the point of the post...it was to point out the missed information that people who talk bad about systems seem to never factor in when in comparison to another...at least that is how i took it...not mentioning the other factors of people like you who would point out a price difference which really trully shows no valor...

[TrUe GaMeR]

Sure it should be doing better esp. with the advantages it had coming in, no argument from me on that (nor Sony in all probability) but there's a long way between should be doing better and dead.

I know the PS3 is not going to die. Even though I'm a xbox guy I can say that I think the PS3 will be the same or overtake the 360 in terms of sales and power by the end of 2008. I really don't care either way. No I have no proof of this it is just what I think. That being said the 360 is the console that does it for me. Just like the PS3 is the console that does it for you all.

[mrut]

Did you know the PS2 only sold 6.4M units in 2000? The Dreamcast was winning ye olde console war at the same point in its lifecycle.

One pretty important little point here. The PS2 was released in Japan March 2000, in NA it was late October 2000 and for the PAL regions late November 2000. Between those 3 regions if you count months available for each region that's 13 months of sales for 6.4 million units. The PS3 as of June 30 2007 had been availabe for 17 months of sales between the 3 regions and has only managed to garner 4.38 million in sales as of that date. That puts it significantly behind the PS2's pace. Granted it's more expensive and the list of games has been dismal but I think it's still safe to say it's performing below expectations. Here's another pretty significant number to consider. In 2001 the PS2 sold 25 million units worldwide, I don't think the PS3 is going to even hit half of that number in 2008

[Behemoko]

Having been forced to register to read this forum, I might as well comment.

"In May, Sony said it produced 5.5 million PS3s worldwide, though it has since changed its tracking method to account for consoles sold instead of made. "

Do you understand this line, and its implications? Previously Sony counted PS3's manufactured and shipped to their warehouses, and they were forced to change it to PS3's actually sold to retailers, just like everyone else, hence their shipped numbers going backward.

The NPD and MediaCreate numbers are the only one who tells you what the real installed base is.

If XBox 360 is tracking slower than the Game Cube, where is the PS3 tracking? DreamCast?

The 360 has also been out for more than twice as long, you do the math.

It's not as far behind as people are thinking..

[nick²]

that was not the point of the post...it was to point out the missed information that people who talk bad about systems seem to never factor in when in comparison to another...at least that is how i took it...not mentioning the other factors of people like you who would point out a price difference which really trully shows no valor...

Maybe you miss MY point then? The ps3 isn't doing great, and neither is the 360 really.

People will talk about a system not doing well... when its not doing well! Its not a shock, its just the truth.

There won't be much positive to say about the system until it picks up some steam. Market dynamics are preventing that from happening. I've played the ps3. I have nothing against it...

People just need to be realistic. You don't have to "root" for the console. You can just accept the fact that the sales aren't that great, and if you've invested money in the console, then hope things improve.

You don't need to control morale. Be realistic. Emotion is the cause of all bias. If things are bad, its best just to accept things are bad for the console.

Things will pick up in time for both the 360 and ps3, but sales aren't going to be up to the ps2 level.

I just find it silly that someone would post to the effect of staying upbeat.. Why not just look at it realistically and say what you feel? Really, why would anyone want to stop this. How does this hurt anyone. Even if the ps3 did by some chance die in its tracks, no one should be emotionally attached.

[turtle553]

Did you know the PS2 only sold 6.4M units in 2000? The Dreamcast was winning ye olde console war at the same point in its lifecycle.

The PS2 was only out in Japan for about 9 months during 2000 and only 2 months for the US and 1 month in Europe for a total of 12 months even though it was highly supply constrained in the US after launch until 2001.

The PS3 has been on sale in the US and Japan for 10.5 months each and on sale in Europe for 6 months already. A total of 27 months adding up availability in each territory and has sold 4-4.5M. So the PS3 is nothing like the PS2 at this point in time.

The Dreamcast was discontinued January 31, 2001 because the PS2 was handily outselling it, the PS2 was never outsold by the DC at any time.

[Pantyhelmet]

One pretty important little point here. The PS2 was released in Japan March 2000, in NA it was late October 2000 and for the PAL regions late November 2000. Between those 3 regions if you count months available for each region that's 13 months of sales for 6.4 million units. The PS3 as of June 30 2007 had been availabe for 17 months of sales between the 3 regions and has only managed to garner 4.38 million in sales as of that date. That puts it significantly behind the PS2's pace. Granted it's more expensive and the list of games has been dismal but I think it's still safe to say it's performing below expectations. Here's another pretty significant number to consider. In 2001 the PS2 sold 25 million units worldwide, I don't think the PS3 is going to even hit half of that number in 2008
QFP (quoted for phail.) copyright 9/26/07
way to miss the point entirely.

[Saigon]

One pretty important little point here. The PS2 was released in Japan March 2000, in NA it was late October 2000 and for the PAL regions late November 2000. Between those 3 regions if you count months available for each region that's 13 months of sales for 6.4 million units. The PS3 as of June 30 2007 had been availabe for 17 months of sales between the 3 regions and has only managed to garner 4.38 million in sales as of that date. That puts it significantly behind the PS2's pace. Granted it's more expensive and the list of games has been dismal but I think it's still safe to say it's performing below expectations. Here's another pretty significant number to consider. In 2001 the PS2 sold 25 million units worldwide, I don't think the PS3 is going to even hit half of that number in 2008

but the year is not over though...ok so if they are at 4.38 at the end of June they need at least 2 mil before its b-day to match what the PS2 did correct...and its birthday is during a holiday season...with games...you do the math...

[Sino]

One pretty important little point here. The PS2 was released in Japan March 2000, in NA it was late October 2000 and for the PAL regions late November 2000. Between those 3 regions if you count months available for each region that's 13 months of sales for 6.4 million units. The PS3 as of June 30 2007 had been availabe for 17 months of sales between the 3 regions and has only managed to garner 4.38 million in sales as of that date. That puts it significantly behind the PS2's pace. Granted it's more expensive and the list of games has been dismal but I think it's still safe to say it's performing below expectations. Here's another pretty significant number to consider. In 2001 the PS2 sold 25 million units worldwide, I don't think the PS3 is going to even hit half of that number in 2008


Didn't kaz say they are trying to ship 11 million PS3 by the end of the year. I think they are going to ship more than 20 million by the end of 08.

[SillyHatMafia]

My friends still bash my idea of me seleling my 360 for PS3.

"You man yout gonna miss Halo and Gears!!"
What if i dont liek Gears, and i know what halo 3 will be like... liek HAlo 2/ Halo 1..
"Man you crazy, what games does PS3 have?"
Warhawk, Resistance, Motorstorm, Heavenly Sword, Lair, plus not to mention the good exclusives coming out this year inclduign HAZE and UT3.

I asked a few of my 360 pals what exclusives they wanted for 360: Man i want Halo 3! anything else? Nah, not much more else besides Halo.


I rest my case, lol.
Edit: Jesus christ, sorry for my typing, i try to rush it and do sloppy.

[Mallanaga]

it'll all be OK in the end... it always is.

[Pantyhelmet]

for some reason ppl have forgot why we buy a ps3 it's because we want the games sony has.. then they jump up and down about halo &: gears i think if we wanted to play them i could have spent 400 and not 600 $$
QFW

well put, the main reason i got the PS3: I know exactly what i'm getting.

[mrut]

but the year is not over though...ok so if they are at 4.38 at the end of June they need at least 2 mil before its b-day to match what the PS2 did correct...and its birthday is during a holiday season...with games...you do the math...

It should get to 6 million before the end of the year but it will still remain a fact that it took many more months of sales to achieve that.

[Saigon]

It should get to 6 million before the end of the year but it will still remain a fact that it took many more months of sales to achieve that.

not if it does it before its bith date...the extra if it is included will only be a month and a couple of days...which might have some impact but not much...the fact is it is its bithday is coming around during a holiday time...numbers can go either way during this time...we will have to see...

but so far it looks on pace to mach what the ps2 did in its first year...

[blindsided]

Wow....it's so wierd that this thread was about anti-system wars but incredibly it just brought it on more. (no offence Leifen.) I do agree with the point of this thread, I would enjoy these forums way more if I saw topics about what people are excited to play rather than what will kill whosits system. I didn't buy a 360 because they don't have what I'm looking for right now. Same as I bought my first playstation after a lifetime of being a nintendo fan because they offered the types of games I like.

I'll start...Drakes Fortune looks rad, I can't wait to play that. Oh and R&C...that look deadly.

[Lefein]

It should get to 6 million before the end of the year but it will still remain a fact that it took many more months of sales to achieve that.

and a sad result of breaking with the "launch first in Japan" tradition as well. They were in more territories for more months as well. See, we can find things to agree on.

[LittleB69]

there is nothing in the future for the PS3 but great games to play. Period.

and a digital tv tuner...I love my PS3 :-)

[Saigon]

Maybe you miss MY point then? The ps3 isn't doing great, and neither is the 360 really.

People will talk about a system not doing well... when its not doing well! Its not a shock, its just the truth.

There won't be much positive to say about the system until it picks up some steam. Market dynamics are preventing that from happening. I've played the ps3. I have nothing against it...

People just need to be realistic. You don't have to "root" for the console. You can just accept the fact that the sales aren't that great, and if you've invested money in the console, then hope things improve.

You don't need to control morale. Be realistic. Emotion is the cause of all bias. If things are bad, its best just to accept things are bad for the console.

Things will pick up in time for both the 360 and ps3, but sales aren't going to be up to the ps2 level.

I just find it silly that someone would post to the effect of staying upbeat.. Why not just look at it realistically and say what you feel? Really, why would anyone want to stop this. How does this hurt anyone. Even if the ps3 did by some chance die in its tracks, no one should be emotionally attached.

Lefein just pointed out something i thought was very important...the PS2 sold 6.5 mil consoles in its first year of 2000...and mrut stated that at the end of June the PS3 was at 4.38 mil...and these are WW numbers...and honestly if that is not being on track...i don't know what is...a system does not have to sell out every month such as the wii to prove its value...and that is my point...the PS3 has been in a slow but steady pace at its price point and it is looking to match what the PS2 did in its first year...

i have a wii...don't play it...but i do have one...nothing against this system...but the novelty has worn off...

[skulpt]

We are all guilty of knocking the other side. I've done it in the past with my sigs, comments... Others have done it the PS3 way. It's annoying as heck to have doom and gloom panic button articles showing up each week, but who cares. For those who have followed video games for longer than a few years, we know the ebb and flow of console market penetration, that the first year is not the overall litmus test for a consoles success, and that Sony is in it for the long haul. And we as gamers are in it for the long term as well, so we might as well sit back and relax what games our systems do offer, learn to appreciate what other systems offer.

Halo 3 rocks. R&C will rock. Mass Effect will rock. Uncharted will rock. PGR4 will rock. MGS4 will rock... There are a lot of amazing games coming out on each system. No reason for anyone to be "demoralized", and Halo 3 is not the one beacon of hope. And the PS3 WILL have some awesome titles, and DOES have some awesome titles.

Now y'all shaddap and play. ;)

Brian

[Ixion]

Posting and talking about sales makes no sense.

The only reason someone would do that is to see who's winning.

Why can't we just talk about the cool games for every console?

Why can't we all just talk about the positives and negatives of each console rather than pitting them against each other?

Why can't we wish the success of each console instead of only wishing the success of one along with the demise of the others?

[HalfOfZero]

Ps3 sales? I dont care, I love my Ps3. Period.
Great topic!

[ChildOfIllusions]

One pretty important little point here. The PS2 was released in Japan March 2000, in NA it was late October 2000 and for the PAL regions late November 2000. Between those 3 regions if you count months available for each region that's 13 months of sales for 6.4 million units. The PS3 as of June 30 2007 had been availabe for 17 months of sales between the 3 regions and has only managed to garner 4.38 million in sales as of that date. That puts it significantly behind the PS2's pace. Granted it's more expensive and the list of games has been dismal but I think it's still safe to say it's performing below expectations. Here's another pretty significant number to consider. In 2001 the PS2 sold 25 million units worldwide, I don't think the PS3 is going to even hit half of that number in 2008

all be it thats true ,take into consideration some ps2 owners arent ready to take the plunge or can validate getting a ps3 when theyre still thoroughly enjoying theyre ps2. the ps2 had the ps1 to compete with im not quite sure the numbers of the ps1 at that point but ill take a shot in the dark and guess it wasnt competing with 110 + million of its little brother and sisters i think not . lets not even go into the argument of how many awesome games the ps2 still has that most people havnt even begun to enjoy half of them. but you see my point

[Sparc]

Completely and totally agree with your view Leffy regarding the absolute stupidity of console wars. I agree with comments made by Chartwel and Jasonbay too about how much onus is given over to sales figures instead of what's important - the games.

If you have a PS3 why the hell would you care what the 360 is or is not capable of? If you have a 360 why the hell would you care what the PS3 is capable of? The only time I could see it being a valid question is if you was considering purchasing the other console - like some of us have.

I couldn't give a flying fig whether the PS3, 360 or Wii come first, second, third, or bloody runner up in the egg and spoon race. I am having the best gaming experience since I started gaming many many moons ago. I just can't understand why people just don't appreciate it for what it is - exciting times with many technical innovations and advances.

Gotta go and dish some reps out.

[Edit] Sorry Chartwel. Appears I've repped you enough recently :D I've gotta 'spread myself around a bit'

[Idenowhereiam]

great topic..

someone before was talking about how theres 110+ millions of ps2 owners and that the ps3 should have got to a real high number because of it..

whats funny is that since the support is still there many current ps2 owners don't really feel the need to make the jump to the newer playstation because theres still support for the system. If sony had completely dropped the ps2 once the ps3 came out maybe it would be different, but as of now the ps2 has a whole new breathe of life blown into it because of the many games it shares with the wii, as well as numerous games that are still coming to it.

When the ps2 launched.. everyone knew sooner or later it was time to give up your ps1 and move on... but sony has openly said they're going to continue supporting the system. Now can you see how the fact that the ps3 at $600 is still doing alright compared to it's predecessors

[Thegamingdwarf]

it'll all be OK in the end... it always is.

Serious +rep for you my friend, if everyone took that attitude and enjoyed the moment, this forum would never have had this thread (which in turn would lead to you having less rep, but thats besides the point)...

Since we are on the topic of sales, if find it funny that everyone talks about sales manically, you, me and the press. Yet not one person has said the phrase:

"I'm only buying a PS3/360/Wii when its passed the X million sales mark"

Its always been, "When the price is lower" or "When X game gets released" etc etc, so i really don't understand why sales matter, we have prooved it doesnt influence developers, it doesn't influence quality, it doesnt influence us, so like, wth?


i have a wii...don't play it...but i do have one...nothing against this system...but the novelty has worn off...

This is not a direct dig at you, you just happened to give a great example for me to use. This is the sort of quote that leads off into the thread we are trying to prevent. Im glad you have a Wii, but you really don't have to say the rest, it will only lead to someone (Lets say me, im playing devils advocate), to say:

(Exaggrated for effect)
"OMG, WTF?! Wiiii rocks, its not a novelty, its selling like hotcakes every month, and your xbot pals over a microsucks, know it, thats why they are trying to tap into nintendo casual games market, cos we're selling and your not, your sales slump, therefore graphics dont matter... at all!!1"

Now children, what do we see wrong with this classic example of console war flamebaiting? Well to start, its written badly, however, this is what a model student of the PS3Forums academy should reply with:

"Hmmm, yes, i can see your points, but in my opinion, since the wii is now in so many homes, it is difficult to argue that it was a novelty, especially as there are presently more games than Sony's new console. Also due to the ethos of not having to deal with artistic and graphic assets, cost of development goes down, therefore more games, more specifically aimed at the currently very profitable casual market, can take effect. I think MS is trying to tap that market with XBLA, but its still only reaching current owners"

However, this sort of thing would never have been started had you not said several offending words that include "don't play" and "novelty", by merely saying you have bought a Wii illustrates your point fine, it really doesnt matter if you play it at the moment or not. In the end it all comes down to a bit of polieteness, consideration and enjoyment; It really isn't a competition, forums are about discussion and having a laugh on a topic WE CAN ALL RELATE TO *hint hint*

[InFiDeLiTY]

you know, although totally impractical but the best way to cut all this crap down is make some sort of minimum age on the forums (with some type of varification)

as i said, wayyy to impractical but it would get rid of a lot of kids therefore a lot of fanboyism

[esonique]

I didn't buy a 360 because they don't have what I'm looking for right now. Same as I bought my first playstation after a lifetime of being a nintendo fan because they offered the types of games I like.

Exactly my point before. Well put!


Posting and talking about sales makes no sense.

The only reason someone would do that is to see who's winning.

Why can't we just talk about the cool games for every console?

Why can't we all just talk about the positives and negatives of each console rather than pitting them against each other?

Why can't we wish the success of each console instead of only wishing the success of one along with the demise of the others?

This is what I was trying to say in my post but ended up ranting! LOL!

[natureman3]

I just think the ps2 days were better as with owning only 1 console, you had the insurrance to get 99% of the AAA titles coming to it. Now, it will just be 40% or 30%. I just think it's not goodto have 2 HD consoles on the same level of market pntration, as it's not good to have HD DVD vs BLU-RAY. The game we would see with a 120+ millions installed base would be very different than games for a 40+ millions installed base (1/3 of market). It's just a simple link between potential sales and game budget. and bigger budget is required for the best games.

[jj03]

I agree..especially about the console war ****...its ****ing pathetic....seriously...neither could i give a crap about about how many numbers shipped blah blah blah....all i know is..i like the 360, despite mine going tits up..so i bought the ps3. and love it...there may not yet be enough games that i want, but then i make use of the ps3's other functions..bluray, web browser etc...

Have a bit of respect for both platforms...people may not like the 360 for whatever reason, but some of the games available for it are fantastic...

The ps3 has its best years ahead of it....and i can't wait.

[Bakari]

When people are starting morale support threads in the Games Section, someone needs to hit the pause button and show you guys what time it really is. As of late, I have been on an anti-consolewars kick and really hoped the forum would pay notice, but it hasn't worked. I might take an infraction for this, I might have to brush my teeth after posting this, and I may have to leave the forum if the Chicken Littling doesn't stop. So, for all of you little fishies out there biting on the PS3 Haterade hook, it's time to look at some important facts.


http://tech.uk.msn.com/news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=6125003
So, there you have it folks, a link to MSN itself that should raise some eyebrows. For the record, the rest of the article is quite informative and worth a read.

Let me ask a question now.. What was the last console that sold a little over 11M units a year and nine months into its lifecycle? What was the last console to not break the 20M unit mark in its second year? Answer? It's the Gamecube.. Now, I want you to sit down, shut up, and ponder that fact for a moment.. The 360 is tracking WORSE than the Gamecube up to this point in its lifecycle. Why do I bring this up? Because there is a small yet highly vocal fanbase trying desperately to drag this forum and the PS3 fanbase as a whole down to their level.

How many times have we heard in PS3 Discussion topics that hardware problems haven't slowed down Xbox360 sales? How many times does the 360 come up in the PS3 Discussion area, period? Do you guys ever question the evangelists?

How many times will a game not get a certain score at a given website like IGN and it gets met with an onrush of "OMG, Sony will never beat Halo3 with their crappy rushed software and hard to program for Cell"? Since when did gamers take website scores religiously? For crying out loud, let's take Gamespot just for instance:
Here's their review for Perfect Dark 0: http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/perfectdarkzero/review.html?sid=6140242
And now here is RFOM: http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/insomniacshooter/review.html?sid=6161706
I think it's safe to say that RFoM is alive and well still even in the post Warhawk era..

This leads me up to more recent goings on with the Halo3 hype and how poorly this forum has acted overall about it, and more importantly, how poorly forums and the PS3 fanbase overall has been acting about it as well. To make a long story short, just be happy for them. Halo3 is a pretty fun game, even if it doesn't do a whole lot of anything new. Bungie came up with a fantastic gameplay formula that works well for them and it has become a beacon in the night for a fanbase that has become so demoralized that they have to pick on a launch year consoles sales and software to make them feel good about themselves.

Why is it every month there's a new article about how the PS3s doom is imminent? How come there can't be a single thread about KillZone2 without it spiraling down into a "Halo got KillZowned at E3"fest? Don't you guys see that you are giving a failing system life support by drawing such comparisons? Don't you guys see that everytime you start to look at your PS3 as some kind of failure you are giving these guys exactly what they want? Don't give them the satisfaction, people. All three systems can have a bright future if the respective fanbases can see the politics and drama for what it is. It eats me up inside that I need to make a thread like this but I pray to God that it sinks into your heads that these storms shall pass and there is nothing in the future for the PS3 but great games to play. Period.

While your views are definitely admirable, it is hard to take seriously when coming from someone with a completely one sided opinion who also happens to takes place in these despicable console war debates. If you are going to preach this message then you **** well better make sure that these very same guide lines you put fourth are followed by yourself. I'm afraid at the time being... they don't. For someone who hates console debates, you sure do discuss your fair share on that matter which is quite evident with this thread. People like to pimp out their purchases, it is something that is present in many things. One example being sports. If you do not like it, then ignore it. A long rant is going to do absolutely nothing to stop the problem, the best advice one can give is to simply get over it.

I'm going to save myself and others time and simply leave it at that.

PS. If you're going to put down the Xbox 360 for following in the foot steps of the Game Cube, then don't you think it would be useful knowledge to mention that the Playstation 3 is trailing under the Xbox 360s sales trend? It is typically better to give both sides of a story :)

[2Tfps]

I must say one thing. For my owns sake, the PS3 just has left the launchpad with HS. Simple as that.

[Lord Arklon]

Sadly, this is now the gaming community for the most part. I initially thought it was just select forum dwellers that were the sheep and fanboys, but when I observed a recent study showing that ratings often times reflect good sales, then it hit me:

The vast majority of our gaming community is comprised of sheep.:cry: When a large group of people cannot decide whether a game looks good on their own, particularly in this resourceful age we live in(videos, pics, synopses, etc.), that spells trouble if you ask me. Perhaps if being a "professional reviewer" required more credentials than...I don't know, opinion maybe, I too may give them more merit, but such is not the case.

There isn't a critic, expert, connoiseur, or pro in the world that can tell me what to like any better than I can, and it truly shocks me that so many other people don't feel the same way. So much for an independent thought process.:-|

I know it seems as if I'm veering off topic but I really feel that this has much to do with our degenerating community. I look at forums around the net to see nasty posts from folks saying things like "Game x!?!? What did that score, like a 6!?":dunce and in my head they have no idea how pathetic and ridiculous that sounds. As if there's a science to reviewing games. This isn't concrete sports statistics, this is purely subjective here, and people are taking it and running as if it's gospel.

The ranting just escalates because all it does is provoke more and more BS from the usual suspects. The worst part about it hearkens back to what Lefein was getting at, and it's the morale of the community.

When you think about it, it's silly that we should feel insecure about a bloody video game console,:suspect: but time and time again, we see it happen. It's a result of all of the bickering from all sides, and this situation, more so than many, really proves that two wrongs certainly don't make a right. If you have to constantly tell yourself that Killzone is better than whatever the competition has, then there's a pretty good chance that you're among the most insecure within the community, or you're just flat out bitter and in denial. All of which spawn from the stupid little skirmishes:argue fanboys and trolls like to instigate.

He's right though. In the future, and dare I say the near future at that, we'll all have some stellar games to play and hopefully most of us will come to our good senses.

I'll also predict that when everything evens out and the disarray subsides, the ones that will far the hardest are the ones sitting at the top slinging mud at the rest. When everyone else is happy with their respective libraries, the trolls that clung to one game and never gave anything else a chance will be the ones in the gutter when it's all said and done.

Fear not level headed gamers, as trivial as it may be, we'll have the last laugh yet.:mrgreen:

+rep Lefein, it's good that you've brought this out into the open.

[2Tfps]

Completely and totally agree with your view Leffy regarding the absolute stupidity of console wars. I agree with comments made by Chartwel and Jasonbay too about how much onus is given over to sales figures instead of what's important - the games.

If you have a PS3 why the hell would you care what the 360 is or is not capable of? If you have a 360 why the hell would you care what the PS3 is capable of? The only time I could see it being a valid question is if you was considering purchasing the other console - like some of us have.

I couldn't give a flying fig whether the PS3, 360 or Wii come first, second, third, or bloody runner up in the egg and spoon race. I am having the best gaming experience since I started gaming many many moons ago. I just can't understand why people just don't appreciate it for what it is - exciting times with many technical innovations and advances.

Gotta go and dish some reps out.

[Edit] Sorry Chartwel. Appears I've repped you enough recently :D I've gotta 'spread myself around a bit'

Rep some? Fair and square, me for one. :D

[mr pink]

Who cares about how the 360 is selling? Just get whatever console most appeals to you and stop worrying about everyone else. What matters to me is that the 360 has got a lot more really good games to play on it than any other next-gen console and I don't see that changing for awhile. I have a PS3 to it's currently a movie player while I wait for Uncharted.


The 360 is tracking WORSE than the Gamecube up to this point in its lifecycle.

But just for fun, the PS3 is tracking WORSE than the 360 up to this point in its lifecycle, so what does that make it?

[Nucleus]

OMG! Talk about a one sided point of view. Well, Ill let the blind lead the blind.

[Lefein]

OMG! Talk about a one sided point of view. Well, Ill let the blind lead the blind.

Maybe it's just a different point of view. You are free to come up with some counterpoints and debate the issue if you wish, but saying that it's "the blind leading the blind" is a bit derogatory and doesn't offer much in the way of feedback or debate.

[2Tfps]

Sadly, this is now the gaming community for the most part. I initially thought it was just select forum dwellers that were the sheep and fanboys, but when I observed a recent study showing that ratings often times reflect good sales, then it hit me:

The vast majority of our gaming community is comprised of sheep.:cry: When a large group of people cannot decide whether a game looks good on their own, particularly in this resourceful age we live in(videos, pics, synopses, etc.), that spells trouble if you ask me. Perhaps if being a "professional reviewer" required more credentials than...I don't know, opinion maybe, I too may give them more merit, but such is not the case.

There isn't a critic, expert, connoiseur, or pro in the world that can tell me what to like any better than I can, and it truly shocks me that so many other people don't feel the same way. So much for an independent thought process.:-|

I know it seems as if I'm veering off topic but I really feel that this has much to do with our degenerating community. I look at forums around the net to see nasty posts from folks saying things like "Game x!?!? What did that score, like a 6!?":dunce and in my head they have no idea how pathetic and ridiculous that sounds. As if there's a science to reviewing games. This isn't concrete sports statistics, this is purely subjective here, and people are taking it and running as if it's gospel.

The ranting just escalates because all it does is provoke more and more BS from the usual suspects. The worst part about it hearkens back to what Lefein was getting at, and it's the morale of the community.

When you think about it, it's silly that we should feel insecure about a bloody video game console,:suspect: but time and time again, we see it happen. It's a result of all of the bickering from all sides, and this situation, more so than many, really proves that two wrongs certainly don't make a right. If you have to constantly tell yourself that Killzone is better than whatever the competition has, then there's a pretty good chance that you're among the most insecure within the community, or you're just flat out bitter and in denial. All of which spawn from the stupid little skirmishes:argue fanboys and trolls like to instigate.

He's right though. In the future, and dare I say the near future at that, we'll all have some stellar games to play and hopefully most of us will come to our good senses.

I'll also predict that when everything evens out and the disarray subsides, the ones that will far the hardest are the ones sitting at the top slinging mud at the rest. When everyone else is happy with their respective libraries, the trolls that clung to one game and never gave anything else a chance will be the ones in the gutter when it's all said and done.

Fear not level headed gamers, as trivial as it may be, we'll have the last laugh yet.:mrgreen:

+rep Lefein, it's good that you've brought this out into the open.

I was about to rep you of your well deserved post, because the beginning was great. Then you see the 'bold' statement above. You faild. Because you just repeated the obvious, 'people are sheeps' - Me included in some occations. I can feel your frustration though.

Ozzy said it best: I know I'm not gonna change the world. The world will change me.
Trekkies next: Resistance is futile. Prepare to assimilate.
I.e. no matter what right you have, it will be quenched to nothingness and you have to assimilate. My experience.

[Lord Arklon]

I was about to rep you of your well deserved post, because the beginning was great. Then you see the 'bold' statement above. You faild. Because you just repeated the obvious, 'people are sheeps' - Me included in some occations. I can feel your frustration though.

Ozzy said it best: I know I'm not gonna change the world. The world will change me.
Trekkies next: Resistance is futile. Prepare to assimilate.
I.e. no matter what right you have, it will be quenched to nothingness and you have to assimilate. My experience.
Well, I respect your opinion but respectfully disagree.

In a larger scope of things, you're probably correct. If you're looking at life in general then actually I agree with you. We live in a day where people don't work to live, we instead live to work. Can't own anything at all without some form of scrutinization or taxation.

When we're talking about entertainment though, that's where I'm sticking by my guns, and I'll provide examples.

LotR trilogy. Three of the most boring and horrendously drab movies I've seen in the past decade. IMO a complete travesty that any of them won a single Oscar. Then again, that's a critic for you.

Tranformers. Slammed by critics but I found it enjoyable. Not a grand epic adventure that will pick your brain, but rather a fun popcorn flick, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Xenosaga Ep.1: My favorite RPG to this day. Widely agreed within the gaming community that it doesn't hold a candle to Xenogears. I, on the other hand, beg to differ.

In short, I agree with you in terms of certain factors that are largely outside of our control, but I'll maintain my independence when it comes to something that me, and only me can have any effect on.

[VideoGamePhilosopher]

This is why i disappeared, i always ghost the forums to see what is happening and look at the opinions of various members. but i became sick of all the my system is better then your s crap. I am not a sony fanboy but i am a fan of sony, two different things. I have always been a gamer first and foremost. every console this generation has messed up to a degree but i see the overall value to be with the playstations 3 console. just like previous playstation systems. thats my peace.

[DayWalker]

When people are starting morale support threads in the Games Section, someone needs to hit the pause button and show you guys what time it really is. As of late, I have been on an anti-consolewars kick and really hoped the forum would pay notice, but it hasn't worked. I might take an infraction for this, I might have to brush my teeth after posting this, and I may have to leave the forum if the Chicken Littling doesn't stop. So, for all of you little fishies out there biting on the PS3 Haterade hook, it's time to look at some important facts.


http://tech.uk.msn.com/news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=6125003
So, there you have it folks, a link to MSN itself that should raise some eyebrows. For the record, the rest of the article is quite informative and worth a read.

Let me ask a question now.. What was the last console that sold a little over 11M units a year and nine months into its lifecycle? What was the last console to not break the 20M unit mark in its second year? Answer? It's the Gamecube.. Now, I want you to sit down, shut up, and ponder that fact for a moment.. The 360 is tracking WORSE than the Gamecube up to this point in its lifecycle. Why do I bring this up? Because there is a small yet highly vocal fanbase trying desperately to drag this forum and the PS3 fanbase as a whole down to their level.

How many times have we heard in PS3 Discussion topics that hardware problems haven't slowed down Xbox360 sales? How many times does the 360 come up in the PS3 Discussion area, period? Do you guys ever question the evangelists?

How many times will a game not get a certain score at a given website like IGN and it gets met with an onrush of "OMG, Sony will never beat Halo3 with their crappy rushed software and hard to program for Cell"? Since when did gamers take website scores religiously? For crying out loud, let's take Gamespot just for instance:
Here's their review for Perfect Dark 0: http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/perfectdarkzero/review.html?sid=6140242
And now here is RFOM: http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/insomniacshooter/review.html?sid=6161706
I think it's safe to say that RFoM is alive and well still even in the post Warhawk era..

This leads me up to more recent goings on with the Halo3 hype and how poorly this forum has acted overall about it, and more importantly, how poorly forums and the PS3 fanbase overall has been acting about it as well. To make a long story short, just be happy for them. Halo3 is a pretty fun game, even if it doesn't do a whole lot of anything new. Bungie came up with a fantastic gameplay formula that works well for them and it has become a beacon in the night for a fanbase that has become so demoralized that they have to pick on a launch year consoles sales and software to make them feel good about themselves.

Why is it every month there's a new article about how the PS3s doom is imminent? How come there can't be a single thread about KillZone2 without it spiraling down into a "Halo got KillZowned at E3"fest? Don't you guys see that you are giving a failing system life support by drawing such comparisons? Don't you guys see that everytime you start to look at your PS3 as some kind of failure you are giving these guys exactly what they want? Don't give them the satisfaction, people. All three systems can have a bright future if the respective fanbases can see the politics and drama for what it is. It eats me up inside that I need to make a thread like this but I pray to God that it sinks into your heads that these storms shall pass and there is nothing in the future for the PS3 but great games to play. Period.

as always lefein you make an excellent post.

people are just impatient- and this stagnant period that the PS3 is in seems unbearably long because the competition is much better this time around and is releasing great games like Bioshock and Halo 3... while the PS3 is getting Lair and Warhawk (I own the latter).

We're just impatient- and the media has to write about something.
Don't let it bother you too much.

Sony!!! Deliver us from evil!!!!
:lol:

[WonsAuto]

YES! Another melodramatic "State of the PS3" thread, a perfect compliment to the "Halo 3 is the end of PS3!" and "M$ has nothing after Halo 3" threads.

Know what'd be great? Everyone just enjoying the systems they bought for the reasons for which they bought them.

Bought a PS3? Play the hell out of Warhawk, Resistance, Heavenly Sword, NGS. Get ready for Haze, UT3, Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, MGS4, and a lot more on the horizon.

360? Bioshock, Gears, Forza, Halo. Mass Effect, PGR4, Fable 2, NGS2 on the way.

Wii fans have Zelda, RE4, MP3, and Paper Mario, with Manhunt 2, Super Mario Galaxy, and Super Smash Bros. to look forward to.

All of this begs the question: Why is anybody pissed off? These are inanimate objects that provide us with entertainment, nothing more.

JUST PLAY YOUR GAMES, PEOPLE.

[Nucleus]

Maybe it's just a different point of view. You are free to come up with some counterpoints and debate the issue if you wish, but saying that it's "the blind leading the blind" is a bit derogatory and doesn't offer much in the way of feedback or debate.

People always try to point out what Microsoft did wrong to highlight what Sony "Says" they can or will do. Why can't people just talk about what the PS3 is doing good without throwing in what the competition didn't do? Why can't people either agree with what you like about the PS3 or not comment at all? A Majority of the console bickering that goes on around here stemms from threads like this and one-sided comments that people like you make.

Sony fans are just like Sony running around talking about what they will do in the future and what they can do on paper. If you can do what you say, back it up and stop living in the future. Sony needs to be worried about now or they may not have a future.

[Nunalho]

Great post as usual Lefi.

You are **** right!

Plus rep.

[Thunder860]

As I said, no one thats serious doubt the NPD. You are obviously not.


yes, but no one serious should trust an estimation either.

[Lefein]

YES! Another melodramatic "State of the PS3" thread, a perfect compliment to the "Halo 3 is the end of PS3!" and "M$ has nothing after Halo 3" threads.

Know what'd be great? Everyone just enjoying the systems they bought for the reasons for which they bought them.

Bought a PS3? Play the hell out of Warhawk, Resistance, Heavenly Sword, NGS. Get ready for Haze, UT3, Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, MGS4, and a lot more on the horizon.

360? Bioshock, Gears, Forza, Halo. Mass Effect, PGR4, Fable 2, NGS2 on the way.

Wii fans have Zelda, RE4, MP3, and Paper Mario, with Manhunt 2, Super Mario Galaxy, and Super Smash Bros. to look forward to.

All of this begs the question: Why is anybody pissed off? These are inanimate objects that provide us with entertainment, nothing more.

JUST PLAY YOUR GAMES, PEOPLE.

Uhmm, strangely enough, that's kind of exactly what I said..

[Hemin]

You are right about how poorly the 360 is tracking - but why is no one talking about it? It appears that the PS3 is doing quite well as far as sold consoles YTD, am I correct in saying this?

u are absolutely correct, selling 11.6 million in two years is garbage, and it had no competition for a whole year. as it stands the ps3 is doing very well.

[willisc89]

Is there a paticular reason you've decided to create this thread?
Here here, I'm totally agreeing. How bout a little less QQing and a little more pew pewing.

[astrozombie]

haha this is great I just don't care what other people think.Until another company sells 100 million plus consoles 2x in a row then i'll be worried.I've seen the most loyal to nintendo and microsoft crack down and buy a sony gaming product.The only doom I see is too how quickly people write something off when nintendo wasn't selling as well as it should nobody left it for dead and now gamers are buying a product not even marketed towards them.Microsoft may finally make money thanks to halo and is it just me or is braging that your launch console works something that should not be bragged about.I'm gonna go play skate now keep up the awesome work lefein you put a lot of work into your post to prove only what I can call the inevitable jumping ship.

[WonsAuto]

Uhmm, strangely enough, that's kind of exactly what I said..

...Minus the "360 is outpaced by Gamecube" statement that was cleverly veiled by your denouncing of Killzone 2 fanboys. :???:

[Uncool]

*Sigh* if people just enjoyed their games and stop being manipulated by emphirical numbers as if it something out of this world. I hate the fact how some people here are so easily manipulated by the media to follow hype trains and whatnot to the point that they alienate themselves from fellow gamers.

Anyway I see good things for all three consoles, especially for the PS3.

[Tetsu]

Sony fans are just like Sony running around talking about what they will do in the future and what they can do on paper. If you can do what you say, back it up and stop living in the future. Sony needs to be worried about now or they may not have a future.
I think you should have also said something like this:

If Microsoft doesn't start producing reliable hardware, they won't survive as a console maker.

See, I bought a 360 Elite before the console I really wanted, the PS3, the reason being Forza 2. I prefer Gran Turismo too, but Forza is a darn good game.

But then reality struck. First, my Elite DVD drive quit working completely after only six weeks, and it had to go back. It actually returned from the service center in 21 days if I recall. But then more reality: my 360 Forcefeedback Wheel controller broke, one I was forced to buy because M$ wouldn't allow the extremely well made Logitech wheels to work with the 360. And then to add insult to injury, I have sporadic disc read errors on my DVD drive again!

Needless to say I wasn't a big fan of Microsoft before this, and am much less of one now. I don't want them to fail, necessarily, but I darned sure don't want them to prosper by misleading the public about the quality of their products. It's a good thing I don't care for the MS library or I'd be livid.

I'm not worried about the Playstation 3. It's extremely well made, very powerful, future proof, has a superb game library and developer support, and has incredible fidelity and resolution. It's the best multimedia player on the market right now. The price will drop and it will begin selling like crazy around the planet, unlike the 360 which, like the XBox, only sells well in America.

When I get games to increase my library, I'm going to be buying ones made for s system which will work when I turn it on.

[girlgamer27]

Interesting info re: Dreamcast.. :)

[Blu-Ray]

Are you GirlGamer??? Meh.... did you make a new name?
And, why can't people just play their games..

[Beodude123]

I've noticed that the 360 side of things gets away with a lot, while the PS3 side doesn't get any leeway. Perfect example; Heavenly Sword was harshly criticized for being about 8-10 hours long, and yet Halo 3 which is about the same length on the standard difficulty has no remarks to the same. Why is it that people don't complain about the length?

[Lefein]

...Minus the "360 is outpaced by Gamecube" statement that was cleverly veiled by your denouncing of Killzone 2 fanboys. :???:

I can only do so much.. Besides, this is PS3forums, I don't feel obligated to misrepresent facts to argue with more misrepresented facts.

[-=*7*=-]

*Sigh* if people just enjoyed their games and stop being manipulated by emphirical numbers as if it something out of this world. I hate the fact how some people here are so easily manipulated by the media to follow hype trains and whatnot to the point that they alienate themselves from fellow gamers.

Anyway I see good things for all three consoles, especially for the PS3.

Yep I kinda think your right Uncool! There's what 6.6 Billion prospective customers out there in the World. That's Plenty of room to grow a user base for all the consoles and still have room for some new models even. This should be a very good ride for all of us over this coming Holiday Season. Nobody can complain about not having any games, that's for sure!

You know I'm beginning to see this whole console race kinda like a Roller Coaster ride. Some people like the rush of riding in the first car with their hands up, and others would rather catch the air time and G-Forces of the last car in the whip action. There all just different views and really nothing wrong with having a different view. Is there? Hype trains aren't near as much fun as accepting life as it comes or doesn't.

What if we were all forced to ride in the back or for that matter the middle or front. Each console enjoys it's own unique good and bad qualities! Right now I'll take my Air Time and feel that whip action in the last car. Suit me just fine! 8)

[Lord Arklon]

Yep I kinda think your right Uncool! There's what 6.6 Billion prospective customers out there in the World. That's Plenty of room to grow a user base for all the consoles and still have room for some new models even. This should be a very good ride for all of us over this coming Holiday Season. Nobody can complain about not having any games, that's for sure!

You know I'm beginning to see this whole console race kinda like a Roller Coaster ride. Some people like the rush of riding in the first car with their hands up, and others would rather catch the air time and G-Forces of the last car in the whip action. There all just different views and really nothing wrong with having a different view. Is there? Hype trains aren't near as much fun as accepting life as it comes or doesn't.

What if we were all forced to ride in the back or for that matter the middle or front. Each console enjoys it's own unique good and bad qualities! Right now I'll take my Air Time and feel that whip action in the last car. Suit me just fine! 8)
It will subside eventually.

I think the frustration with Playstation fans lie in that we're so used to having an immense library of games to fall back on after we've beaten the latest and greatest. I can easily think of about 7 or so games off the top of my head that I still would like to play for my PS2.

The frustration with the XBox crowd I can only assume is somewhat similar, in that there have only been few noteworthy titles over it's lifespan, and there's some angst in regards to the Playstations usual vast library. Now that the system is coming into it's own, I'd guess there's a sense of retribution on their part(flaunted in the most disgusting of ways, though), but I think some titles haven't lived up to expectations despite having a pretty rich amount of titles.

The Wii crowd I think couldn't be happier, because Nintendo fans are, or should be anyway, used to not having the big budget, technically spectacular epics on the other two consoles.

within 2 years we'll all be where we were about 3 years ago last generation. There will be plenty of games for all consoles, each one will be affordable, and only a nutcase could complain. Hopefully the community will stop dignifying the extremists by then.

[Bakari]

I've noticed that the 360 side of things gets away with a lot, while the PS3 side doesn't get any leeway. Perfect example; Heavenly Sword was harshly criticized for being about 8-10 hours long, and yet Halo 3 which is about the same length on the standard difficulty has no remarks to the same. Why is it that people don't complain about the length?

Well for one thing Halo 3 has online co-op and arguably one of the best and most diverse multiplayer experiences on a console. Heavenly Sword is ragged on for its short single player experience and lack of replay value. One game is going to last you years, and the other is going to last you a weekend, that is the difference.

[SolidSnakeUS]

That was a great rant and very well done. +rep for you man!

[Sparc]

I've noticed that the 360 side of things gets away with a lot, while the PS3 side doesn't get any leeway. Perfect example; Heavenly Sword was harshly criticized for being about 8-10 hours long, and yet Halo 3 which is about the same length on the standard difficulty has no remarks to the same. Why is it that people don't complain about the length?

Gears was reportedly short (although on the toughest level and in sp the game imho is about 12 hours, which for a FPS is about right) and loads of people posted about it....I mean LOADS. HS is short (reputedly - I've not personally tried it) and people post about that. The issue with HS (or any sp only game) is that without an online mp mode the longevity is reduced further. With most FPS's you can at least fall back on the multiplayer, in fact the mp is usually bigger and more popular than the sp campaign. Warhawk has a sp campaign mode of 0 hours :) and yet it's the most played game I have at this moment. Don't measure a game's length purely by the sp element.

[GS kid]

I've noticed that the 360 side of things gets away with a lot, while the PS3 side doesn't get any leeway. Perfect example; Heavenly Sword was harshly criticized for being about 8-10 hours long, and yet Halo 3 which is about the same length on the standard difficulty has no remarks to the same. Why is it that people don't complain about the length?

The biggest reason Heavenly Sword gets more grief then Halo for it's game length has to do with the Sony fans bragging and stating as fact that "teh power of Blu-Ray" will make games longer on the PS3. I heard that notion too many times on here for me to bother counting.


To Lefein...

Nobody on this forum has been fighting the console war mindset longer then me. From day one of me joining, I have mentioned it time and time again in my posts. Did anybody listen to me!??! Nope...... especially not you with your daily dose of Microsoft/360 related bash or dismissive talk. Ironic that one of the biggest haters of the past (and still the colors come out on occasion) is getting +rep for something I've been on message about from day one of me joining on here. Yet most people dismissed me because of it ....and you say it and it gets you rep! :suspect:

I can forgive you of your past, but I'm not gonna be dumb enough to forget it either. You used to be one of the biggest console war pot stirrers on here and helped fan the flames and create the foundation of the console war mindset around here. And although you have become much better, you still fall off the wagon on a fairly semi-regular basis and uncovers your true side that you have simply been hiding.

In another thread you said....



It never ceases to amaze me how political gaming has become now thanks to the Xbox and its fanbase..

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=100808&page=6


Thanks to the Xbox and it's fanbase?!?! I was on this forum 3 months before you joined. I saw the constant 360 hating threads and posts BEFORE the 2005 E3 debuts of the 360 and the PS3. Then once E3 happened, 360 hate went into overdrive and the nitrous was kicked in. Then about a month later, you joined the forum and after about a few weeks of being somewhat reasonable, you got sucked into it too and became one if it's biggest instigators and proprietors. Despite the site owners opening their arms to us and making a section for the 360, it has been most of the Sony fans like yourself that have made sure we aren't welcomed. Cuz all the 360 hate and Xbot comments made that quite clear.

Well I agree with most of what you said, but I need more then a few weeks of no 360/Microsoft dismissive or bashing talk before I can get behind you. I can get behind your message.... after all ....I'm the guy that's been beating the anti-console war mantra for 2 1/2 years now. But I can't take it seriously if it's mouthpiece keeps falling off the wagon. :pale

I'm also wondering if you are saying it cuz you mean it or simply cuz the PS3 is on the ropes so to speak PR and sales wise at the moment and you feel a little like 360 fans have felt over the years on here.

Cuz I wonder if you would really be making the same pleas to people had it been the 360 with PR issues and 3rd place in the hardware numbers?!? My money is on that you wouldn't.

The moral of the story Leffy is .....practice what you preach. When you can do that consistently, I can get fully behind you. Keep doing otherwise and I will only keep pointing it out to you and to those new people that don't know your past. :???:

[Bakari]

The biggest reason Heavenly Sword gets more grief then Halo for it's game length has to do with the Sony fans bragging and stating as fact that "teh power of Blu-Ray" will make games longer on the PS3. I heard that notion too many times on here for me to bother counting.


To Lefein...

Nobody on this forum has been fighting the console war mindset longer then me. From day one of me joining, I have mentioned it time and time again in my posts. Did anybody listen to me!??! Nope...... especially not you with your daily dose of Microsoft/360 related bash or dismissive talk. Ironic that one of the biggest haters of the past (and still the colors come out on occasion) is getting +rep for something I've been on message about from day one of me joining on here. Yet most people dismissed me because of it ....and you say it and it gets you rep! :suspect:

I can forgive you of your past, but I'm not gonna be dumb enough to forget it either. You used to be one of the biggest console war pot stirrers on here and helped fan the flames and create the foundation of the console war mindset around here. And although you have become much better, you still fall off the wagon on a fairly semi-regular basis and uncovers your true side that you have simply been hiding.

In another thread you said....


http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=100808&page=6


Thanks to the Xbox and it's fanbase?!?! I was on this forum 3 months before you joined. I saw the constant 360 hating threads and posts BEFORE the 2005 E3 debuts of the 360 and the PS3. Then once E3 happened, 360 hate went into overdrive and the nitrous was kicked in. Then about a month later, you joined the forum and after about a few weeks of being somewhat reasonable, you got sucked into it too and became one if it's biggest instigators and proprietors. Despite the site owners opening their arms to us and making a section for the 360, it has been most of the Sony fans like yourself that have made sure we aren't welcomed. Cuz all the 360 hate and Xbot comments made that quite clear.

Well I agree with most of what you said, but I need more then a few weeks of no 360/Microsoft dismissive or bashing talk before I can get behind you. I can get behind your message.... after all ....I'm the guy that's been beating the anti-console war mantra for 2 1/2 years now. But I can't take it seriously if it's mouthpiece keeps falling off the wagon. :pale

I'm also wondering if you are saying it cuz you mean it or simply cuz the PS3 is on the ropes so to speak PR and sales wise at the moment and you feel a little like 360 fans have felt over the years on here.

Cuz I wonder if you would really be making the same pleas to people had it been the 360 with PR issues and 3rd place in the hardware numbers?!? My money is on that you wouldn't.

The moral of the story Leffy is .....practice what you preach. When you can do that consistently, I can get fully behind you. Keep doing otherwise and I will only keep pointing it out to you and to those new people that don't know your past. :???:

Exactly. While the words are wise, I cannot take them seriously due to who they are coming from. It's similar to President Bush preaching ideas on anti war.

[SolidSnakeUS]

It seems that some people believe that no one can change.

[Lefein]

Well for one thing Halo 3 has online co-op and arguably one of the best and most diverse multiplayer experiences on a console. Heavenly Sword is ragged on for its short single player experience and lack of replay value. One game is going to last you years, and the other is going to last you a weekend, that is the difference.

Sometimes, you try too hard. I mean, come on with me for a fantastic journey. Close your eyes and imagine Heavenly Sword or God of War online.. Why would people play that type of game in that kind of way? You are comparing apples to oranges.

..and wtf gives with this "It's the most amazing supperrific happyhappyjoyjoy on a console" business? Dear God, map editors have been out for ages and UTIII is also going to have this kind of functionality. As a gamer, I have to say "wake me up when something actually new happens" and I am being 100% sincere... You know why? Try finding a game like LittleBigPlanet out there for PC. There's always a hook with you Xbox360 evangelists.. be it a game that is "Microsoft exclusive" because it is on PC and 360 or it's "the most revolutionary, whimsical, joyous whatever.. on a console" and it gets to be pretty tired.

The fact that you even frame arguments in such terms evokes the console wars to the Nth degree and you probably don't realize it or just change your tactics often enough where you don't get called out. In any case, you're certainly not fooling me and you can stop the Xbox360/Halo commercial in my thread.. with all due respect.


The biggest reason Heavenly Sword gets more grief then Halo for it's game length has to do with the Sony fans bragging and stating as fact that "teh power of Blu-Ray" will make games longer on the PS3. I heard that notion too many times on here for me to bother counting.


To Lefein...

Nobody on this forum has been fighting the console war mindset longer then me. From day one of me joining, I have mentioned it time and time again in my posts. Did anybody listen to me!??! Nope...... especially not you with your daily dose of Microsoft/360 related bash or dismissive talk. Ironic that one of the biggest haters of the past (and still the colors come out on occasion) is getting +rep for something I've been on message about from day one of me joining on here. Yet most people dismissed me because of it ....and you say it and it gets you rep! :suspect:

I can forgive you of your past, but I'm not gonna be dumb enough to forget it either. You used to be one of the biggest console war pot stirrers on here and helped fan the flames and create the foundation of the console war mindset around here. And although you have become much better, you still fall off the wagon on a fairly semi-regular basis and uncovers your true side that you have simply been hiding.

In another thread you said....


http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=100808&page=6


Thanks to the Xbox and it's fanbase?!?! I was on this forum 3 months before you joined. I saw the constant 360 hating threads and posts BEFORE the 2005 E3 debuts of the 360 and the PS3. Then once E3 happened, 360 hate went into overdrive and the nitrous was kicked in. Then about a month later, you joined the forum and after about a few weeks of being somewhat reasonable, you got sucked into it too and became one if it's biggest instigators and proprietors. Despite the site owners opening their arms to us and making a section for the 360, it has been most of the Sony fans like yourself that have made sure we aren't welcomed. Cuz all the 360 hate and Xbot comments made that quite clear.

Well I agree with most of what you said, but I need more then a few weeks of no 360/Microsoft dismissive or bashing talk before I can get behind you. I can get behind your message.... after all ....I'm the guy that's been beating the anti-console war mantra for 2 1/2 years now. But I can't take it seriously if it's mouthpiece keeps falling off the wagon. :pale

I'm also wondering if you are saying it cuz you mean it or simply cuz the PS3 is on the ropes so to speak PR and sales wise at the moment and you feel a little like 360 fans have felt over the years on here.

Cuz I wonder if you would really be making the same pleas to people had it been the 360 with PR issues and 3rd place in the hardware numbers?!? My money is on that you wouldn't.

The moral of the story Leffy is .....practice what you preach. When you can do that consistently, I can get fully behind you. Keep doing otherwise and I will only keep pointing it out to you and to those new people that don't know your past. :???:

I think you scrape by with enough modicum of proposed respect to fool only the most meager minded. A truly self aware person would know that your giant 360 Ring avatar sets some people off from the word "Go" and even Aquanox saw the light and has changed his ways ina way that has reflected much better on the forum and the community. You, on the other hand, have a track record a mile wide of derailing threads (be it intentional or not) and have carried the course right into forum Oblivion. People here, for the most part, find you highly disengenuous and don't trust you or respect you. Now, to balance things, I will say that your posting as of more recently has been a slightly refreshing change akin to watching a UFC fighter with a beautiful smile mixed with enough knee jabs to make your opponent smile after having bruised legs from you. I think your ultimate goal is to find the biggest "forum warrior" you can and kick him in the balls when he's finally not looking.

I don't think either of you genuinely like or care about the community here. Correction, I think you care more about proselytizing people here and that is why neither of you start threads on your own but choose to derail or spread misinformation and propaganda from within on other peoples threads. You live in fear, I live in the Light.

[G_H_G]

Uh oh, this **** just got real :lol: .

[SolidSnakeUS]

Yeah I can probably agree with you there. But remember, this is the suggestion/comment place, and since it deals with the forums as a whole, I think Lefein has the right to say something here. Anyways, he's been here longer than me, he's pretty loyal to this site.

[Uncool]

Sometimes, you try too hard. I mean, come on with me for a fantastic journey. Close your eyes and imagine Heavenly Sword or God of War online.. Why would people play that type of game in that kind of way? You are comparing apples to oranges.

..and wtf gives with this "It's the most amazing supperrific happyhappyjoyjoy on a console" business? Dear God, map editors have been out for ages and UTIII is also going to have this kind of functionality. As a gamer, I have to say "wake me up when something actually new happens" and I am being 100% sincere... You know why? Try finding a game like LittleBigPlanet out there for PC. There's always a hook with you Xbox360 evangelists.. be it a game that is "Microsoft exclusive" because it is on PC and 360 or it's "the most revolutionary, whimsical, joyous whatever.. on a console" and it gets to be pretty tired.

The fact that you even frame arguments in such terms evokes the console wars to the Nth degree and you probably don't realize it or just change your tactics often enough where you don't get called out. In any case, you're certainly not fooling me and you can stop the Xbox360/Halo commercial in my thread.. with all due respect.


I think you scrape by with enough modicum of proposed respect to fool only the most meager minded. A truly self aware person would know that your giant 360 Ring avatar sets some people off from the word "Go" and even Aquanox saw the light and has changed his ways ina way that has reflected much better on the forum and the community. You, on the other hand, have a track record a mile wide of derailing threads (be it intentional or not) and have carried the course right into forum Oblivion. People here, for the most part, find you highly disengenuous and don't trust you or respect you. Now, to balance things, I will say that your posting as of more recently has been a slightly refreshing change akin to watching a UFC fighter with a beautiful smile mixed with enough knee jabs to make your opponent smile after having bruised legs from you. I think your ultimate goal is to find the biggest "forum warrior" you can and kick him in the balls when he's finally not looking.

I don't think either of you genuinely like or care about the community here. Correction, I think you care more about proselytizing people here and that is why neither of you start threads on your own but choose to derail or spread misinformation and propaganda from within on other peoples threads. You live in fear, I live in the Light.

@Lefein - Seriously, both you and GS Kid need to mend this situation because its utterly pointless to argue who's done what to whom and why.:? Looking over what has been said, the incessant fanboy hate for the 360 here is appalling to say the least. Big "F U MS and your piece of S*** console is all I ever rummage through with reports. Its ridiculous what some people get away with saying this and that. Look if you don't like MS find whatever but don't reference them in threads that are DEDICATED to PS3 only news. Focus on that and nothing more. If anyone should expand on a topic then do it in a constructive and non-flamebaity way. Get rid the the BS gifs and horrible images depicting MS as som sort of evil entity its a freaking console maker. That doesn't help in lower the hate threads/posts on here. We are trying to get people to understand the next-generation w/out including the idiotic console war mentality of vying for supremacy by shatting on the competition and turning your fellow gamer as an opposing force.

@GS Kid - as much as you go one about reducing the console war mentality, did you ever think that people will always listen? Of course not. Also a reocurring theme is topic derailment which of course all of us are effing sick of. Look we don't need this in a forum, we discuss anything about what is happening in the gaming industry. However, coming into threads and saying "another bashing thread on 360/PS3" - "FUD on 360/PS3" list goes on what is wrong with people's mentality and being manipulated and what not doesn't help the staff or me get anything done. Instead of pointing out problems here, why don't you and Lefien actually work together in calling out all members here regardless of their preference, to not encourage enraged fanboyism to the point that members are screaming out of the top of their lungs who is the better company A or B.

*Sigh* I'm so sick of having to ban so many people because they could not show tolerance and hold their tongue in heated debates and end up lashing at all who are involved. While its a forum, all member should respect each other. Its a community, learnt to work together for the betterment of it.:?

[Lefein]

To be fair, I didn't move this thread to the feedback forum.. Since it did, I just had one more thing to get off my mind. I've said my peace and don't intend to fan the flames of war.

[SolidSnakeUS]

Hopefully no one goes after you now after posting this.

[Lefein]

Hopefully no one goes after you now after posting this.

Go after me in what way? I don't follow.

[SolidSnakeUS]

I mean to try to bomb you for posting something like this. I just read a post in the 360 section that you made on the Halo jaggies thing, and pretty much Bakari went after you. Something like that or worse. Pretty much to make you look like an incompetent poster.

[REFLEX]

I think it was all in all a good main point. I think the harsh comments were needed, although a bit harsh, sometimes the truth hurts. I got slammed for being open about my anti-fanboy or favoritism on the Blu-ray/HD DVD subject a few times, but I maintained.

I think some people (not naming names) parade as anti this or that, but really fight their own fight on the side for unknown reasons. Lefein is just saying what needs to be said I believe. I have the Blu-ray section for my justices, and he (to a larger extent) has the PS3 main section, especially after reading through this long topic.

[Bakari]

Sometimes, you try too hard. I mean, come on with me for a fantastic journey. Close your eyes and imagine Heavenly Sword or God of War online.. Why would people play that type of game in that kind of way? You are comparing apples to oranges.

..and wtf gives with this "It's the most amazing supperrific happyhappyjoyjoy on a console" business? Dear God, map editors have been out for ages and UTIII is also going to have this kind of functionality. As a gamer, I have to say "wake me up when something actually new happens" and I am being 100% sincere... You know why? Try finding a game like LittleBigPlanet out there for PC. There's always a hook with you Xbox360 evangelists.. be it a game that is "Microsoft exclusive" because it is on PC and 360 or it's "the most revolutionary, whimsical, joyous whatever.. on a console" and it gets to be pretty tired.

The fact that you even frame arguments in such terms evokes the console wars to the Nth degree and you probably don't realize it or just change your tactics often enough where you don't get called out. In any case, you're certainly not fooling me and you can stop the Xbox360/Halo commercial in my thread.. with all due respect.


Your post would hold some weight if it wasn't for the fact that you completely missed the word "Console". I stand by my words, Halo arguably has one of the best and most fleshed out CONSOLE multi player experiences around. Why do you constantly bring the PC sides of things into debates, the console gaming side of the industry (Outside of MMORPGs) is much larger and has been for quite some time. Everyone does not have a PC powerful enough to play these games Lefein nor does everyone even play PC games for that matter. A lot of developers are shifting resources to console based gaming for a reason.

Apples and oranges mean absolutely nothing in that comparison, I was doing a comparison of replayability. Something that a fleshed out multiplayer tends to add. Not exactly sure what point you were trying to make.

[SolidSnakeUS]

You may say that Halo is one of the best CONSOLE multiplayer experiences, and you also mentioned that it is arguable, but remember, that statement is opinion based. Hell, some would even argue that Goldeneye has better multiplayer than the Halo series. It is all a basis of opinion. Anyways, I feel that the PC has room on this forum mainly because the word PC has been a little redefined. A normal PC is a desktop, or something that has a monitor, keyboard and mouse, but if you think about it, the PS3 itself is a PC. With Linux pre-installed onto the system and you are able to access the OS itself and use it like a PC, it can be considered both a PC and a console. When it comes to this generation, the gap between PC and console has been shortened.

[GS kid]

Sometimes, you try too hard. I mean, come on with me for a fantastic journey. Close your eyes and imagine Heavenly Sword or God of War online.. Why would people play that type of game in that kind of way? You are comparing apples to oranges.

..and wtf gives with this "It's the most amazing supperrific happyhappyjoyjoy on a console" business? Dear God, map editors have been out for ages and UTIII is also going to have this kind of functionality. As a gamer, I have to say "wake me up when something actually new happens" and I am being 100% sincere... You know why? Try finding a game like LittleBigPlanet out there for PC. There's always a hook with you Xbox360 evangelists.. be it a game that is "Microsoft exclusive" because it is on PC and 360 or it's "the most revolutionary, whimsical, joyous whatever.. on a console" and it gets to be pretty tired.

The fact that you even frame arguments in such terms evokes the console wars to the Nth degree and you probably don't realize it or just change your tactics often enough where you don't get called out. In any case, you're certainly not fooling me and you can stop the Xbox360/Halo commercial in my thread.. with all due respect.



I think you scrape by with enough modicum of proposed respect to fool only the most meager minded. A truly self aware person would know that your giant 360 Ring avatar sets some people off from the word "Go" and even Aquanox saw the light and has changed his ways ina way that has reflected much better on the forum and the community. You, on the other hand, have a track record a mile wide of derailing threads (be it intentional or not) and have carried the course right into forum Oblivion. People here, for the most part, find you highly disengenuous and don't trust you or respect you. Now, to balance things, I will say that your posting as of more recently has been a slightly refreshing change akin to watching a UFC fighter with a beautiful smile mixed with enough knee jabs to make your opponent smile after having bruised legs from you. I think your ultimate goal is to find the biggest "forum warrior" you can and kick him in the balls when he's finally not looking.

I don't think either of you genuinely like or care about the community here. Correction, I think you care more about proselytizing people here and that is why neither of you start threads on your own but choose to derail or spread misinformation and propaganda from within on other peoples threads. You live in fear, I live in the Light.

First of all, my ring of light avatar and graphic sig shows my console preference, not to piss people off. Never in the 2 1/2 years I've been here have I ever had any other avatar and graphic sig. You put the words "Unrepentant PS3 fan" under your avatar for quite awhile. I simply have a ring of light avatar and a sig that says the same thing. If you can claim it, why can't I?!!?

And while you and others have put anti-360, anti-Microsoft and anti-Peter Moore text in your sig.... let's look at what text I've had in my sig in the entire time I've been a member here.


Steve "WOZ" Wozniak is GOD! www.woz.org
He's my #1 personal lifelong hero & inspiration.
#2 would be the godfather of modern technical skateboarding and freestyle God.... Rodney "the Mutt" Mullen.
I've been skatboarding over 20 years cuz of him!
Better living through chemicals...... 8)

and my current...


I either want less corruption....or more chance to participate in it. :twisted:

That's it! Just those two. No anti-PS3 graphic sigs, no anti-PS3 text, no text taking shots at Sony execs or the company, no bragging text with the line up of Xbox 360 exclusives, none of this HalOwned baloney, no "replacements don't count as sales" baseless crap, etc etc.

You on the other hand have had that type of inflammatory hater crap in your sig more times then I care to remember.

Then people say I bash Sony and the PS3 and when I ask people to post my quotes and give us links to this bashing...NOT ONE single person has come through with the proof. And I've had more accusers then I can count. None could come up with the goods. And for a guy who is so hated by a lot on the Sony side of the fanbase, you'd think they'd jump at the chance to embarrass me with such PS3/Sony hating quotes. But they don't cuz such quotes or posts don't exist in my post history.

They don't accuse me to prove I'm a hater, they accuse me so that the perception is out there and is easily believed by those that take them at their word and don't bother verifying if that is truly the case with me or not.

You on the other hand have had a long history of bashing all things Microsoft or 360 related. Then you play nice and call for a truce and say that we all need to get out of this console war mindset (something I've been posting on these forums many times in the 3 months before you joined and for all the time after you joined). Then you fall off the wagon and start the 360/Microsoft haterade again and basically lose all creditability on the subject of "Let's get out of the console war mindset and stop bashing other consoles and their fanbase".

So while you said in the above post...


People here, for the most part, find you highly disengenuous and don't trust you or respect you.

They may have the perception that I'm highly disingenuous, but they have no palatable proof to show that I am. You on the other hand had a long history of bashing the 360, then saying we need to stop the hate, then bashing the 360, then saying we need to stop the hate, then bashing the 360....rinse and repeat.

So while people have the perception I'm highly disingenuous, it is YOU who actually has a flip-flop post history proving that you are highly disingenuous when you say you want to get rid of the console war mindset on here and make this forum a better place.

As for this....


I don't think either of you genuinely like or care about the community here. Correction, I think you care more about proselytizing people here and that is why neither of you start threads on your own but choose to derail or spread misinformation and propaganda from within on other peoples threads. You live in fear, I live in the Light.

I start threads on my own, but I rarely do it anymore cuz by the time I think I've got some news to post, somebody has already beat me too it and it's a few pages long already. So I let the forum addicts that live on here all day and have many more times the post count as me... do the posting of threads for me.

As for spreading misinformation and propaganda?!!? Show me where I have done so. You accuse me and yet offer no proof. Talk is cheap Leffy....especially with you.

Here's the bottom line Lefein.... when I see a substantial effort on your part and a substantial length of time without something taking a shot at and/or dismissive of the 360 and Microsoft, then I'll take you and you words more seriously and will help you out. Until then, I'll warn people of your history of flip-flop actions and let people have an informed decision on whether to take you at your word or to dismiss your words outright.:???:


@Lefein - Seriously, both you and GS Kid need to mend this situation because its utterly pointless to argue who's done what to whom and why.:? Looking over what has been said, the incessant fanboy hate for the 360 here is appalling to say the least. Big "F U MS and your piece of S*** console is all I ever rummage through with reports. Its ridiculous what some people get away with saying this and that. Look if you don't like MS find whatever but don't reference them in threads that are DEDICATED to PS3 only news. Focus on that and nothing more. If anyone should expand on a topic then do it in a constructive and non-flamebaity way. Get rid the the BS gifs and horrible images depicting MS as som sort of evil entity its a freaking console maker. That doesn't help in lower the hate threads/posts on here. We are trying to get people to understand the next-generation w/out including the idiotic console war mentality of vying for supremacy by shatting on the competition and turning your fellow gamer as an opposing force.

@GS Kid - as much as you go one about reducing the console war mentality, did you ever think that people will always listen? Of course not. Also a reocurring theme is topic derailment which of course all of us are effing sick of. Look we don't need this in a forum, we discuss anything about what is happening in the gaming industry. However, coming into threads and saying "another bashing thread on 360/PS3" - "FUD on 360/PS3" list goes on what is wrong with people's mentality and being manipulated and what not doesn't help the staff or me get anything done. Instead of pointing out problems here, why don't you and Lefien actually work together in calling out all members here regardless of their preference, to not encourage enraged fanboyism to the point that members are screaming out of the top of their lungs who is the better company A or B.

*Sigh* I'm so sick of having to ban so many people because they could not show tolerance and hold their tongue in heated debates and end up lashing at all who are involved. While its a forum, all member should respect each other. Its a community, learnt to work together for the betterment of it.:?

Well I could work with Lefein if I feel he is truly trying to change his thinking and the mindset of others. I already accepted a "truce" from him that he offered in a PM to me and after 3 months of him living up to his word, come E3 2006... his 360 hate came back with a vengeance. So forgive me if I'm very skeptical and cautious when it comes to things he says and promises. I was burnt bad by him then and I'm not looking to get burnt by him again.

As for ......


However, coming into threads and saying "another bashing thread on 360/PS3" - "FUD on 360/PS3" list goes on what is wrong with people's mentality and being manipulated and what not doesn't help the staff or me get anything done. Instead of pointing out problems here, why don't you and Lefien actually work together in calling out all members here regardless of their preference, to not encourage enraged fanboyism to the point that members are screaming out of the top of their lungs who is the better company A or B.

Well I see threads like this titled "The End of The 360 (Sony's Possible Strategy)"

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=100978

Clearly it's a console war minded, PS3 fanboy, 360 hater thread that will go nowhere good and yet every MOD has managed to miss it somehow even though the thread title is a big hint......and now the thread is 10 pages long without a lock. If people like that are allowed to post console hating threads like that, then why can't I call such people out!?!?

You say Lefein and I should join forces. Well what exactly are we gonna be doing differently together that I haven't already been doing myself!?!? I'm taken both sides of the console fence to task. What more do you want!??! :confused: :bang:

[SolidSnakeUS]

Being a little selfish there aren't we? Are you trying to make yourself feel better or are you saying this because you think it will benefit the forums? I feel that people should just post anything about a console in their respective sections. Have you noticed that nobody is imposing the PS3 on the 360 section? This is a forum for PS3 Fans, to an extent that is. It is pretty much to be expected on such topics to arise in the PS3 section, not the 360 section, also, they put it there because more people view it than the 360 section. GS Kid, I think you give yourself too much credit. You make it sound like you are a saint in this forum, that you have never done anything wrong or you have never posted propaganda. Everyone in here is EQUAL! Even though mods and admins have powers, they are still equal on following the rules! Anyways, he doesn't have to change his mind if he were to join you, haven't you heard "opposites attract"? I personally have more respect for Lefein than most other people, if he were to leave I would really be down in the muck. You're not all knowing, you're not innocent, everyone has done something in here they are accused of, it is destined to happen. And remember, your perception, isn't everybody else's perception, everyone has different perceptions and different opinions. One person isn't going to change you, unless the person is your wife/husband and I'm pretty **** sure you ain't gonna change Lefein.

[Uncool]

For instance actual reporting trouble makers from both sides and not be biased about it.:? Put all the angst you two have into something positive, maybe then you can find some common ground. BTW: I closed that idiotic topic as well. I will send a PM to you both. I want to talk about these issues with both of you outside the forums.

[Bakari]

First of all, my ring of light avatar and graphic sig shows my console preference, not to piss people off. Never in the 2 1/2 years I've been here have I ever had any other avatar and graphic sig. You put the words "Unrepentant PS3 fan" under your avatar for quite awhile. I simply have a ring of light avatar and a sig that says the same thing. If you can claim it, why can't I?!!?

And while you and others have put anti-360, anti-Microsoft and anti-Peter Moore text in your sig.... let's look at what text I've had in my sig in the entire time I've been a member here.



and my current...



That's it! Just those two. No anti-PS3 graphic sigs, no anti-PS3 text, no text taking shots at Sony execs or the company, no bragging text with the line up of Xbox 360 exclusives, none of this HalOwned baloney, no "replacements don't count as sales" baseless crap, etc etc.

You on the other hand have had that type of inflammatory hater crap in your sig more times then I care to remember.

Then people say I bash Sony and the PS3 and when I ask people to post my quotes and give us links to this bashing...NOT ONE single person has come through with the proof. And I've had more accusers then I can count. None could come up with the goods. And for a guy who is so hated by a lot on the Sony side of the fanbase, you'd think they'd jump at the chance to embarrass me with such PS3/Sony hating quotes. But they don't cuz such quotes or posts don't exist in my post history.

They don't accuse me to prove I'm a hater, they accuse me so that the perception is out there and is easily believed by those that take them at their word and don't bother verifying if that is truly the case with me or not.

You on the other hand have had a long history of bashing all things Microsoft or 360 related. Then you play nice and call for a truce and say that we all need to get out of this console war mindset (something I've been posting on these forums many times in the 3 months before you joined and for all the time after you joined). Then you fall off the wagon and start the 360/Microsoft haterade again and basically lose all creditability on the subject of "Let's get out of the console war mindset and stop bashing other consoles and their fanbase".

So while you said in the above post...



They may have the perception that I'm highly disingenuous, but they have no palatable proof to show that I am. You on the other hand had a long history of bashing the 360, then saying we need to stop the hate, then bashing the 360, then saying we need to stop the hate, then bashing the 360....rinse and repeat.

So while people have the perception I'm highly disingenuous, it is YOU who actually has a flip-flop post history proving that you are highly disingenuous when you say you want to get rid of the console war mindset on here and make this forum a better place.

As for this....



I start threads on my own, but I rarely do it anymore cuz by the time I think I've got some news to post, somebody has already beat me too it and it's a few pages long already. So I let the forum addicts that live on here all day and have many more times the post count as me... do the posting of threads for me.

As for spreading misinformation and propaganda?!!? Show me where I have done so. You accuse me and yet offer no proof. Talk is cheap Leffy....especially with you.

Here's the bottom line Lefein.... when I see a substantial effort on your part and a substantial length of time without something taking a shot at and/or dismissive of the 360 and Microsoft, then I'll take you and you words more seriously and will help you out. Until then, I'll warn people of your history of flip-flop actions and let people have an informed decision on whether to take you at your word or to dismiss your words outright.:???:



Well I could work with Lefein if I feel he is truly trying to change his thinking and the mindset of others. I already accepted a "truce" from him that he offered in a PM to me and after 3 months of him living up to his word, come E3 2006... his 360 hate came back with a vengeance. So forgive me if I'm very skeptical and cautious when it comes to things he says and promises. I was burnt bad by him then and I'm not looking to get burnt by him again.

As for ......


Well I see threads like this titled "The End of The 360 (Sony's Possible Strategy)"

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=100978

Clearly it's a console war minded, PS3 fanboy, 360 hater thread that will go nowhere good and yet every MOD has managed to miss it somehow even though the thread title is a big hint......and now the thread is 10 pages long without a lock. If people like that are allowed to post console hating threads like that, then why can't I call such people out!?!?

You say Lefein and I should join forces. Well what exactly are we gonna be doing differently together that I haven't already been doing myself!?!? I'm taken both sides of the console fence to task. What more do you want!??! :confused: :bang:

I pretty much agree with this post 100%, the very same events have happened to me as well. An abounding amount of members calling me out with little to no proof to back their statements. People seem to have the mentality that you can truly only like one console, and when a slight bias is present, everyone pounces at the chance to label you as a troll or fanboy. Something in which I consider to be harassment, but is a situation that mods seem think little about.

I'm not going to go in depth with this (But boy do I have a lot to say on the subject), instead I will repeat what I said earlier in the topic. While your words are noble and hold several points that I find valid, it is hard for anyone (especially myself) to take these words seriously from someone who fails to abide by them.


Being a little selfish there aren't we? Are you trying to make yourself feel better or are you saying this because you think it will benefit the forums? I feel that people should just post anything about a console in their respective sections. Have you noticed that nobody is imposing the PS3 on the 360 section? This is a forum for PS3 Fans, to an extent that is. It is pretty much to be expected on such topics to arise in the PS3 section, not the 360 section, also, they put it there because more people view it than the 360 section. GS Kid, I think you give yourself too much credit. You make it sound like you are a saint in this forum, that you have never done anything wrong or you have never posted propaganda. Everyone in here is EQUAL! Even though mods and admins have powers, they are still equal on following the rules! Anyways, he doesn't have to change his mind if he were to join you, haven't you heard "opposites attract"? I personally have more respect for Lefein than most other people, if he were to leave I would really be down in the muck. You're not all knowing, you're not innocent, everyone has done something in here they are accused of, it is destined to happen. And remember, your perception, isn't everybody else's perception, everyone has different perceptions and different opinions. One person isn't going to change you, unless the person is your wife/husband and I'm pretty **** sure you ain't gonna change Lefein.

You must not visit that section much...

[Uncool]

I pretty much agree with this post 100%, the very same events have happened to me as well. An abounding amount of members calling me out with little to no proof to back their statements. People seem to have the mentality that you can truly only like one console, and when a slight bias is present, everyone pounces at the chance to label you as a troll or fanboy. Something in which I consider to be harassment, but is a situation that mods seem think little about.

I'm not going to go in depth with this (But boy do I have a lot to say on the subject), instead I will repeat what I said earlier in the topic. While your words are noble and hold several points that I find valid, it is hard for anyone (especially myself) to take these words seriously from someone who fails to abide by them.

You must not visit that section much...
Like hell I would ignore something like that.:? If I did, I would have let some of the PS3 member's here stay and troll that section. Ugh Bakari your not really making this easier to mend man.:?

[SolidSnakeUS]

Seriously, I can see there is way too much hate going on right now. I think that Bakari and GS Kid should calm down, and let the people who have powers here, deal with the situation they see fit. I should do the same I guess.

[Bakari]

Like hell I would ignore something like that.:? If I did, I would have let some of the PS3 member's here stay and troll that section. Ugh Bakari your not really making this easier to mend man.:?

I'm simply speaking from experience, as you may or may not have noticed I have toned down the amount of posts I make in the Playstation 3 section. Why? Because I was constantly hassled for being a fanboy, troll, Xbox 360 lover, Playstation 3 hater. Why do you think I had a signature saying "I Just love me some Xbox 360!" or had my avatar and signature as a troll? It wasn't for the hell of it. I'm not saying that you are not doing your job, it simply looks to be a style of posting that is put up with. As it stands now, members are able to call members biased as long as it does not contain any fanboy terminology. I personally am not going to take the time, but you are more then welcome to browse through some of my earlier postings to see what I am talking about.

[SolidSnakeUS]

You must not visit that section much...

Oh, I do visit the section a ton, and I do read the posts. Of late, it has been pretty much all Halo 3, and I have not seen, if any comments about the PS3 in those threads. I can see how people were maybe comparing different screen shots of quality between Halo 3 and Gears of War, but I have not seen people bring into Killzone 2 or Metal Gear Solid 4 into those discussions. I can say, I have seen some worthless threads in that section, such as comparing Halo 3 to MGS4 or Halo 3 to Warhawk, when both comparisons are completely different because the genre and experiences are completely different, like comparing apples to oranges. Trust me, I've been here long enough, I've seen my fair share of stuff, and I've seen most of the stuff that is anti-360 is in the PS3 section, not in the 360 section. That is why I said I feel that people should stop doing this crap all over the forums and leaving information about consoles in their respective places. And if you haven't noticed, I personally have been pretty **** neutral on the forums, even if I have my feelings on thing suppressed.

[cali417]

deleting message deleting message

[Novicegamer]

There are so many differences between this gen and the last one, to make a post like this serves solely to try and make the PS3 fanbase feel good about themselves. Too bad the comparisons in generations don't work.

This is PS3 forum, but with a 360 fanbase as big as the Sony fanbase. Explain that! The funny thing is that this forum has been ridiculed by several websites because of stuff like this. I have even seen Lefin attacked on another forum for the content of his posts. This one just continues the trend.

[EncoreEncore]

Oh, I do visit the section a ton, and I do read the posts. Of late, it has been pretty much all Halo 3, and I have not seen, if any comments about the PS3 in those threads. I can see how people were maybe comparing different screen shots of quality between Halo 3 and Gears of War, but I have not seen people bring into Killzone 2 or Metal Gear Solid 4 into those discussions. I can say, I have seen some worthless threads in that section, such as comparing Halo 3 to MGS4 or Halo 3 to Warhawk, when both comparisons are completely different because the genre and experiences are completely different, like comparing apples to oranges. Trust me, I've been here long enough, I've seen my fair share of stuff, and I've seen most of the stuff that is anti-360 is in the PS3 section, not in the 360 section. That is why I said I feel that people should stop doing this crap all over the forums and leaving information about consoles in their respective places. And if you haven't noticed, I personally have been pretty **** neutral on the forums, even if I have my feelings on thing suppressed.

I can only agree with your here, i stay in the 360 section simply because there is less tosh to drudge through and its cleaner and has basically almost no negativity, hate, Fanboy rubbish, compulsory (this brand name Raped/will rape/accused of rape that brand name) conspiracy threads popping up all over the place.

The 360 section is a lot more easy going and there seems to be lot less venom produced concerning other hardware and stuff.

Just my meager opinion on the matter.

[Sparc]

I spend most of my time in the 360 section mainly because the main PS3 forum is just a home to a ton of threads which appear to be born out of nothing more than insecurities. I don't need some other member telling me that I made the right decision buying a PS3 - I already know that. I'm a big boy and don't need all the mamby pamby hand holding which seems to go on in that forum. In addition the level of unsavory comments and general hatred exhibited in that forum is disconcerting to say the least. I go there, but only if I've nothing else to read elsewhere. The PS3 games forum is a better one but I tend to read more than post in there and the Blu-ray forum is excellent.

The threads in the 360 forum are typically at least related to things that are going on now and not some feeble attempt at explaining the graphics chip, some bizarre teraflops calculations which essentially mean nothing to me, etc. I'm interested in what's happening with things like Live and what games are emerging and people's views of the games in circulation. I don't need, or read, the rest and I definitely don't need reassurring.

[GhostFox61]

There are so many differences between this gen and the last one, to make a post like this serves solely to try and make the PS3 fanbase feel good about themselves. Too bad the comparisons in generations don't work.

This is PS3 forum, but with a 360 fanbase as big as the Sony fanbase. Explain that! The funny thing is that this forum has been ridiculed by several websites because of stuff like this. I have even seen Lefin attacked on another forum for the content of his posts. This one just continues the trend.

What exactly are you trying to say?

[Sephyr]

I'm simply speaking from experience, as you may or may not have noticed I have toned down the amount of posts I make in the Playstation 3 section. Why? Because I was constantly hassled for being a fanboy, troll, Xbox 360 lover, Playstation 3 hater. Why do you think I had a signature saying "I Just love me some Xbox 360!" or had my avatar and signature as a troll? It wasn't for the hell of it. I'm not saying that you are not doing your job, it simply looks to be a style of posting that is put up with. As it stands now, members are able to call members biased as long as it does not contain any fanboy terminology. I personally am not going to take the time, but you are more then welcome to browse through some of my earlier postings to see what I am talking about.Bakari, are you living on a different planet? The reason why everyone says you're a troll is because most of theposts you make are flambait! Whenever anyone says something positive about the PS3 you chime in and say something anti PS3 pro 360. You need to take off the green spectacles, they're blinding you.

[SolidSnakeUS]

I think we need a nuke on this forum, maybe for some cleaning purposes. This is towards nobody, I was just stating a hyperbola to help settle the tensions.

[Sparc]

I think we should all hook up for a UT3 death match frag fest when it's out. If you lose, you're banned :D

[Sephyr]

I think we should all hook up for a UT3 death match frag fest when it's out. If you lose, you're banned :DI second that motion! There should be more ban bets on this forum.

[GhostFox61]

I think we need a nuke on this forum, maybe for some cleaning purposes. This is towards nobody, I was just stating a hyperbola to help settle the tensions.

I really think the admins need to decide if they want this to be a PS3 forum.

If they don't, fine. Change the name and nothing else.

If they do however, then they need to seriously question the motives of anyone posting here who doesn't own or plan to own a PS3.

I like all 3 consoles, and I don't hide that fact. I also prefer my PS3 the most, another fact I don't hide.

Which is why I post here.

To me the 360 section should be a place for PS3 fans to discuss 360 news. Not a place for the 360 fanboys to hide out and trash the PS3.

Sometimes I pop onto this forum and I need to double take to make sure I didn't click the teamxbox link instead. A 360 fan gets far more leeway on these forums to bash the PS3 then a PS3 fan does to bash the 360. Not that I think we should encourage console bashing by anyone, but on a PS3 forum a 360 fan should have a far shorter leash then a PS3 fan.

I look around at all of these people who are open about disliking the PS3, and how they will never own one, and I ask myself "Why are you here?"

Right or wrong, these people are the reason for the strife and discord on this forum. As long as they are here, there will always be problems.

[Sparc]

I really think the admins need to decide if they want this to be a PS3 forum.

If they don't, fine. Change the name and nothing else.

If they do however, then they need to seriously question the motives of anyone posting here who doesn't own or plan to own a PS3.

I like all 3 consoles, and I don't hide that fact. I also prefer my PS3 the most, another fact I don't hide.

Which is why I post here.

To me the 360 section should be a place for PS3 fans to discuss 360 news. Not a place for the 360 fanboys to hide out and trash the PS3.

Sometimes I pop onto this forum and I need to double take to make sure I didn't click the teamxbox link instead. A 360 fan gets far more leeway on these forums to bash the PS3 then a PS3 fan does to bash the 360. Not that I think we should encourage console bashing by anyone, but on a PS3 forum a 360 fan should have a far shorter leash then a PS3 fan.

I look around at all of these people who are open about disliking the PS3, and how they will never own one, and I ask myself "Why are you here?"

Right or wrong, these people are the reason for the strife and discord on this forum. As long as they are here, there will always be problems.

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to cause offence here but what you just wrote is ridiculous. If true gamers cannot congregate and discuss pertinent gaming news and issues without resorting to petty console war and corporate mud slinging then perhaps Jack Thompson's view of the entire gaming community is the right one. I see JUST as many flamebait topics and untruths posted in the PS3 section as I do any where else. You may think that when someone purchases a 360 they receive with it some implant that turns them into a person hell bent on causing trouble, but I suspect that it's more to do with the fact that when flamebait is posted by a hardcore PS3 supporter you tend not to notice it.

Sitting on the fence gives one the great perspective of both sections of the community here and I can hand on heart tell you that this 'trouble' you refer to emanates from many quarters - not just one section.

Btw...if I had never joined this forum in the days when I owned only a 360 (the PS3 wasn't even out in Europe when I joined here) I wouldn't have a PS3 now. It's only threads like those created by people like Loudninja that helped form my interest in the console.

[Bakari]

Bakari, are you living on a different planet? The reason why everyone says you're a troll is because most of theposts you make are flambait! Whenever anyone says something positive about the PS3 you chime in and say something anti PS3 pro 360. You need to take off the green spectacles, they're blinding you.

I'm perfectly grounded, and the post I make are well thought out and in most cases factually backed. Trolling is the posting controversial ideas and statements for the sole purpose of invoking an argument. Something that I definitely do not take part in. The majority of my post are aimed at the correction of unfactual postings, which just happen to be much more frequent in the Playstation 3 section of the board and understandably so (Playstation 3 section heavily out weighs the Xbox 360 section both member wise and activity wise).

I keep my postings within the boundary and will not change my style simply because it rubs some members the wrong way. Do I prefer the Xbox 360 at this point in time? My past favorite systems were the Playstation and Playstation 2, the Xbox 360 just happens to be much more appealing at this point. I do not buy systems with a name brand in mind, I buy it because it is appealing. Yes, and I have said so numerous times in the past. And that bias is obviously going to shine through in my posts, an unbiased take on things is nearly an impossibility. My past favorite systems were the Playstation and Playstation 2, the Xbox 360 just happens to be much more appealing at this point. I do not buy systems with a name brand in mind, I buy it because it is appealing. Anyone who shows favor towards a competing system is automatically cast aside and labeled, something that doesn't seem to happen towards radical Playstation 3 fans.

Once again I will ask that instead of screaming witch, go through my previous posts and find factual proof that I am indeed a trolling flamebaiting whore. Until then your baseless assumptions are just that, baseless assumptions.

[REFLEX]

The only reason the 360 section is calmer is because its its a guest in the PS3 forums in a sense..... perhaps this is a unique situation here, but I believe this website and the members have crafted that into something, and it just ends up creating a scenario where this happens. The 360 section isn't a cause of all the trouble that goes on, its not a cause of anything, but the reason why its calmer is because its a 360 section in a huge PS3 forum. It has no thing to do with it being 360 owners or 360 discussions.

[SolidSnakeUS]

I got an image to add to this thread, but I might get an infraction for it :lol:, but it is so true.

[GhostFox61]

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to cause offence here but what you just wrote is ridiculous. If true gamers cannot congregate and discuss pertinent gaming news and issues without resorting to petty console war and corporate mud slinging then perhaps Jack Thompson's view of the entire gaming community is the right one. I see JUST as many flamebait topics and untruths posted in the PS3 section as I do any where else. You may think that when someone purchases a 360 they receive with it some implant that turns them into a person hell bent on causing trouble, but I suspect that it's more to do with the fact that when flamebait is posted by a hardcore PS3 supporter you tend not to notice it.

Sitting on the fence gives one the great perspective of both sections of the community here and I can hand on heart tell you that this 'trouble' you refer to emanates from many quarters - not just one section.

Btw...if I had never joined this forum in the days when I owned only a 360 (the PS3 wasn't even out in Europe when I joined here) I wouldn't have a PS3 now. It's only threads like those created by people like Loudninja that helped form my interest in the console.

I think you misunderstood me.

I'm not saying that it is only 360 fans who are the problem. Or that you shouldn't be allowed to post here if you don't own a PS3.

What I am saying is that if this is a PS3 forum, then a certain degree of deference needs to be given to PS3 fans vs. other fans, and it is the fact that this is actually opposite that causes the strife.

I have no problem with people who are interested in the PS3. But don't you think it is odd for someone who hates it to hang out here? Because there are those on here who don't hide their hatred for all things Sony. You don't think that will cause problems on a PS3 forum?

Let me put it another way. I am a diehard Yankees fan. I live and die with them. I love going to games. Whenever I go to a game at Fenway, people always seem worried that I am going to cause a riot. But I never have a problem.

Why? Because I understand I am a guest in their house. I go out of my way to be respectful to the Red Sox fans and team. I don't boo the Sox, and I don't overly cheer for the Yankees. And I don't show up decked out head to toe in Yankees gear.

You don't disrespect people in their own house.

So if you come to this forum as a non-PS3 fan, you need to understand that you are coming as a guest in someone else's house. That means you are on a very short leash compared to the host.

[Sparc]

I think you misunderstood me.

I'm not saying that it is only 360 fans who are the problem. Or that you shouldn't be allowed to post here if you don't own a PS3.

What I am saying is that if this is a PS3 forum, then a certain degree of deference needs to be given to PS3 fans vs. other fans, and it is the fact that this is actually opposite that causes the strife.

I have no problem with people who are interested in the PS3. But don't you think it is odd for someone who hates it to hang out here? Because there are those on here who don't hide their hatred for all things Sony. You don't think that will cause problems on a PS3 forum?

Let me put it another way. I am a diehard Yankees fan. I live and die with them. I love going to games. Whenever I go to a game at Fenway, people always seem worried that I am going to cause a riot. But I never have a problem.

Why? Because I understand I am a guest in their house. I go out of my way to be respectful to the Red Sox fans and team. I don't boo the Sox, and I don't overly cheer for the Yankees. And I don't show up decked out head to toe in Yankees gear.

You don't disrespect people in their own house.

So if you come to this forum as a non-PS3 fan, you need to understand that you are coming as a guest in someone else's house. That means you are on a very short leash compared to the host.

Thank you for the clarification. Yes, in respect to everything you just said, I agree. I don't think it gives license for PS3 hardcore fans to insult 360 owners, or spread FUD, but I agree that 360 only fans here should be mindful of the site's main intent (hence why I spoke out against having a dedicated Halo sub-forum)

[SolidSnakeUS]

Thank you for the clarification. Yes, in respect to everything you just said, I agree. I don't think it gives license for PS3 hardcore fans to insult 360 owners, or spread FUD, but I agree that 360 only fans here should be mindful of the site's main intent (hence why I spoke out against having a dedicated Halo sub-forum)

And a lot of people don't realize that. Nice post.

[Novicegamer]

What exactly are you trying to say?


I am responding to the OP, that's all. Pointing out how incorrect it is and how the parrallels that he draws are wrong because his basic premise is wrong.

[Legend92]

the way i see it if you prefer a PS3 buy one and if you prefer a X-box 360 buy one and if you prefer a wii buy one and if u want to buy all of them or 2 of them then buy them why argue whats better if someone is paying out sony and you like sony who cares they are just being stupid and if you pay out ms then your just as bad or vice versa