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konangrit
10-10-2007, 13:07
Toshiba seem to have put quite a bit of spin on this, as I recall they were previously claiming to have a far higher percentage of standalone player sales, now it's down to 53%, with 44% for BD Players, and 3% for dual format players. The funny thing is that they make an announcement that HD DVD players are once again outselling standalone Blu-ray players, I wasn't even aware that Blu-Ray players were outselling HD-DVD players, so thanks for that Toshiba. Of course, none of this includes the 2 Million PS3 Blu-ray players in North America, because they don't count.


HD DVD Claims Lead In Player Sales
The format's leading booster cites new research.
By Swanni

Washington, D.C. (October 10, 2007) -- Toshiba says standalone HD DVD players are once again outselling standalone Blu-ray players.

The company, which makes HD DVD players and is the leading supporter of the high-def disc format, is basing that claim on new research from NPD Group, according to Video Business.

Toshiba says HD DVD players began outselling Blu-ray set-tops in mid-September after several weeks of victories for Blu-ray.

Blu-ray sales rose during the summer, most industry observers agree, after Sony dropped the price of its entry-level player to $499. Toshiba's entry-level HD DVD player costs $299.

“When new models hit stores there will be a surge in demand. There were some weeks where we lagged,” Jodi Sally, Toshiba's vice president of marketing, said yesterday at a DVD Forum conference, according to Video Business. “But overall HD DVD continues to dominate.”

Sally says standalone HD DVD players now generate 53 percent of sales in the high-def disc category, with Blu-ray getting 44 percent and dual format players receiving 3 percent.

Sally did not reveal individual unit sales for the two high-def formats.

However, the statistics do not include Sony's PlayStation 3, which has a Blu-ray player inside. If PS3's nearly two million unit sales were included, Blu-ray would have a wide advantage over HD DVD.

Link (http://www.tvpredictions.com/toshiba101007.htm)

Leon Prower
10-10-2007, 13:13
I personally always thought blu ray was gonna be the winner, and while this is far from over, my intial guess seems to have been correct, for the moment anyways

Beodude123
10-10-2007, 14:42
Yeah, I noticed that too. Last time they spit the figures out, they had something like 66% of the stand alone market. Now they have shrunk down to 53%? That's pretty sad considering they are the lower priced model.

It's funny too how they say the stand alone player statistic, how they leave the PS3 out, but when it comes to tie in ratio, they include the PS3, to make their ratio higher. Pretty sad I'd say. You spin the numbers both ways to your advantage. If you are going to include the PS3 in attach rates, you should include it in players sold as well. Or leave the PS3 out of it when mentioning attach rate. Either way, it's going to be skewed, since not every PS3 owner is going to be buying Blu-ray movies.

Saigon
10-10-2007, 15:24
This is the point of the article...


However, the statistics do not include Sony's PlayStation 3, which has a Blu-ray player inside. If PS3's nearly two million unit sales were included, Blu-ray would have a wide advantage over HD DVD.

Krazy Ivan
10-10-2007, 15:43
HD-DVD has a huge advantage because their standard is done... blu-ray is still changing... pretty much all of the blu-ray stand alone players that people own right now will be obsolete very soon... blu-ray is moving to profile 1.1 at the end of the month and none of the players are at profile 1.1 or can be updated... it means that they will not be able to watch additional content on the future blu-ray movies or even worst they won't be able to watch future blu-ray movies at all...

PS3 should be OK because it can be updated and easily can satisfy new standard...

Cooke_E_G
10-10-2007, 15:54
Yeah, I noticed that too. Last time they spit the figures out, they had something like 66% of the stand alone market. Now they have shrunk down to 53%? That's pretty sad considering they are the lower priced model.

It's funny too how they say the stand alone player statistic, how they leave the PS3 out, but when it comes to tie in ratio, they include the PS3, to make their ratio higher. Pretty sad I'd say. You spin the numbers both ways to your advantage. If you are going to include the PS3 in attach rates, you should include it in players sold as well. Or leave the PS3 out of it when mentioning attach rate. Either way, it's going to be skewed, since not every PS3 owner is going to be buying Blu-ray movies.

Of course they are going to spin it to their adventage...every company spins numbers so **** well its crazy! They cant lie to shareholders so they are going to spin the numbers to make us and them (the shareholder) seem like itheir product is doing better then what it really is! :mrgreen:

Thats business for ya!

Saigon
10-10-2007, 16:06
HD-DVD has a huge advantage because their standard is done... blu-ray is still changing... pretty much all of the blu-ray stand alone players that people own right now will be obsolete very soon... blu-ray is moving to profile 1.1 at the end of the month and none of the players are at profile 1.1 or can be updated... it means that they will not be able to watch additional content on the future blu-ray movies or even worst they won't be able to watch future blu-ray movies at all...

PS3 should be OK because it can be updated and easily can satisfy new standard...

actually most blu-ray players have this option currently available...it is just that the feature(they do have a internet connection/ Cat5 port which allows updates) has yet to enabled...for what i heard they did this to keep the price down...now hd-dvd will also have a problem...most of the players that are being sold are not 1080p capable...at most some them go to 1080i...which there is a difference...plus blu-ray can expand beyond 1080...I am not sure what hd-dvd can expand to...

upnorthsox
10-10-2007, 16:53
HD-DVD has a huge advantage because their standard is done... blu-ray is still changing... pretty much all of the blu-ray stand alone players that people own right now will be obsolete very soon... blu-ray is moving to profile 1.1 at the end of the month and none of the players are at profile 1.1 or can be updated... it means that they will not be able to watch additional content on the future blu-ray movies or even worst they won't be able to watch future blu-ray movies at all...

PS3 should be OK because it can be updated and easily can satisfy new standard...

It is? I guess until MS tells you it isn't.

DaInfamousWon
10-10-2007, 17:06
I hate 2 support the other format but I'm thinking about picking up a stand alone hd dvd player so I can watch adult movies since it seems blu ray is not supporting that industry.

Cooke_E_G
10-10-2007, 18:20
I hate 2 support the other format but I'm thinking about picking up a stand alone hd dvd player so I can watch adult movies since it seems blu ray is not supporting that industry.

Actaully I think they are!!! I cant give you a link, im sure the place I work at would love that!!! Just google it! I thought there was a big article awhile back saying that porn would be on BR :oops:

mcav
10-10-2007, 19:09
I hate 2 support the other format but I'm thinking about picking up a stand alone hd dvd player so I can watch adult movies since it seems blu ray is not supporting that industry.

Lamest. Post. Ever.

You are really going to buy an HD DVD player to buy porn?

Morever - "it seems blu ray is not supporting that industry" is an old, pointless, and entirely incorrect statement Because you can (if you are truly stupid enough) buy adult films on BD.

Considering you have interet access, it makes me wonder how sad you need to be to buy "high def porn".

Perfect Sin
10-10-2007, 19:10
What's sad is that PS3 doesn't count because it's not a stand-alone player.

My guestimate would be that if the PS3 was included as a Blu-ray player and you were matching Blu-ray and HD-DVD, Blu-ray would easily have at least 85% of the market, in terms of hardware.

Cause as of now, why buy a Blu-ray player when you can get a PS3 for $400?

mcav
10-10-2007, 19:22
Of course the PS3 counts. It's a fully fledged, and still top range BD player!

Toshiba are full of ****.

05xrunner
10-10-2007, 19:43
this looks to be the cheapest BD player
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129015

DayWalker
10-10-2007, 19:50
Toshiba seem to have put quite a bit of spin on this, as I recall they were previously claiming to have a far higher percentage of standalone player sales, now it's down to 53%, with 44% for BD Players, and 3% for dual format players. The funny thing is that they make an announcement that HD DVD players are once again outselling standalone Blu-ray players, I wasn't even aware that Blu-Ray players were outselling HD-DVD players, so thanks for that Toshiba. Of course, none of this includes the 2 Million PS3 Blu-ray players in North America, because they don't count.



Link (http://www.tvpredictions.com/toshiba101007.htm)

2 million units???
I assume they are referring to NA only???

wetowel
10-10-2007, 19:51
its so funny how toshiba does not take the ps3 into account when its actually a HUGE factor in this format war.

Raunchy™
10-10-2007, 20:26
However, the statistics do not include Sony's PlayStation 3, which has a Blu-ray player inside. If PS3's nearly two million unit sales were included, Blu-ray would have a wide advantage over HD DVD.
I find it ABSOLUTELY STAGGERING that HD-DVD fans keep forgetting that last quote.

What the hell is the PS3?? Chopped liver?!?!? http://i23.tinypic.com/2v8kd4p.gif

DaInfamousWon
10-10-2007, 21:08
Lamest. Post. Ever.

You are really going to buy an HD DVD player to buy porn?

Morever - "it seems blu ray is not supporting that industry" is an old, pointless, and entirely incorrect statement Because you can (if you are truly stupid enough) buy adult films on BD.

Considering you have interet access, it makes me wonder how sad you need to be to buy "high def porn".

actually d*ck I was also taking into consideration hd dvd exclusives when I made that post like my son's favorite movie (Transformers) but mistakenly omitted that fact as I'm on my PDA. Moreover, y are u getting all worked up about what I spend my money on anyway. U might wanna relax and calm da hell down buddy

Saigon
10-10-2007, 21:08
What's sad is that PS3 doesn't count because it's not a stand-alone player.

My guestimate would be that if the PS3 was included as a Blu-ray player and you were matching Blu-ray and HD-DVD, Blu-ray would easily have at least 85% of the market, in terms of hardware.

Cause as of now, why buy a Blu-ray player when you can get a PS3 for $400?

yes you are right...but i was wondering does NPD include...or does any one know if they included the 360 add-on as a standalone...just wondering...

Wingnut
10-11-2007, 00:32
I find it ABSOLUTELY STAGGERING that HD-DVD fans keep forgetting that last quote.

What the hell is the PS3?? Chopped liver?!?!? http://i23.tinypic.com/2v8kd4p.gif

Statistically, this is good and bad news for BR. The good news is that they have more BR capable players out there, and the bad news is that the attach rate for BR when you actually include the PS3 is absolutely horrendous when you compare it to the attach rate of HD-DVD.

It's a double edged sword, the HD-DVD group are just covering their bases, if the BDA boast about the amount of BD players that are out there, the HD-DVD can counter with the attach rates figures. I think it would be nieve to think that if the it were the other way around the BDA wouldn't do the same thing.

Beodude123
10-11-2007, 01:29
HD-DVD has a huge advantage because their standard is done... blu-ray is still changing... pretty much all of the blu-ray stand alone players that people own right now will be obsolete very soon... blu-ray is moving to profile 1.1 at the end of the month and none of the players are at profile 1.1 or can be updated... it means that they will not be able to watch additional content on the future blu-ray movies or even worst they won't be able to watch future blu-ray movies at all...

PS3 should be OK because it can be updated and easily can satisfy new standard...


There will never be a Blu-ray player that wouldn't be able to play the movie contained on the Blu-ray disc. All the profile 1.1 and 2.0 etc is for special features. So talking about all that stuff (in my opinion) isn't a deal breaker at all. Does it really bother people that much to not have commentary with picture in picture watching the movie? 99% of the time, I watch a movie to watch the movie. I don't care about special features, and I could care less about all the extra junk they try and spin to make it sound like the Blu-ray or HD DVD is better than the other. If the audio and video quality are good, then I'm happy.

TidalPhoenix
10-11-2007, 20:22
HD-DVD's advantage is that those who purchase it are purchasing it purely for movies and therefore they will typically spend a good deal on movies thereby continuing to feed those studios that release on HD-DVD.

With the PS3 it's mainly purchased as a console. The Blu-ray maybe a sweetner which gets people to choose it over, say, a 360, but it's unlikely to be the sole reason someone buys it. This means that the attach rate is much lower and therefore the studios don't see the same level of film purchasing.

This format war is here to stay.

mcav
10-11-2007, 20:56
I disagree - if anything, I got my PS3 more for being an excellent BD player which had the bonus of being a games console!

konangrit
10-11-2007, 21:00
HD-DVD's advantage is that those who purchase it are purchasing it purely for movies and therefore they will typically spend a good deal on movies thereby continuing to feed those studios that release on HD-DVD.

With the PS3 it's mainly purchased as a console. The Blu-ray maybe a sweetner which gets people to choose it over, say, a 360, but it's unlikely to be the sole reason someone buys it. This means that the attach rate is much lower and therefore the studios don't see the same level of film purchasing.

This format war is here to stay.

How is that an advantage for HD-DVD? HD-DVD has to compete with standalone Blu-ray players and 2 million PS3s. Blu-ray only has to compete with HD-DVD players, and the 360 add on. How many 360 add ons have been sold? Anyway, PS3 has clearly made a difference, even with less standalone players sold than HD-DVD, BDs outsell HD-DVDs 2-1. Low attach rate isn't a problem for PS3 when the installed base overwhelms that of HD-DVD.

anjiru0009
10-11-2007, 21:03
this looks to be the cheapest BD player
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129015


Far from a stand alone player.

sorrow880
10-11-2007, 21:12
I use my ps3 almost equally between gaming and blu-rays...I own 45 blu-rays now...and the collection will only continue to grow. To think that the ps3's count for nothing towards blu-ray sales is ludicrous--yes, the blu-ray attach rate is much less for ps3's than for stand-alone players, but far from nothing.

TidalPhoenix
10-11-2007, 21:43
How is that an advantage for HD-DVD? HD-DVD has to compete with standalone Blu-ray players and 2 million PS3s. Blu-ray only has to compete with HD-DVD players, and the 360 add on. How many 360 add ons have been sold? Anyway, PS3 has clearly made a difference, even with less standalone players sold than HD-DVD, BDs outsell HD-DVDs 2-1. Low attach rate isn't a problem for PS3 when the installed base overwhelms that of HD-DVD.

Attach rate is where the studios' revenue comes from. If HD-DVD has a very strong attach rate then Universal won't be going anywhere, ergo the format war will continue to run...and run...and run...etc

STL.GANGSTER
10-11-2007, 22:25
Attach rate is where the studios' revenue comes from. If HD-DVD has a very strong attach rate then Universal won't be going anywhere, ergo the format war will continue to run...and run...and run...etc
1. This is only refering to AMerica.

2 The sales figures still show BD's Way outselling HD-dvd's
NUff said

bobtheduck
10-11-2007, 22:45
Attach rate is where the studios' revenue comes from. If HD-DVD has a very strong attach rate then Universal won't be going anywhere, ergo the format war will continue to run...and run...and run...etc

No, not attatch rate (funny that they count attatch rate as higher by including PS3s, but they don't count PS3's as "players" lying ass Toshiba) but total sales are where revenues come from, and Bluray is WINNING in that respect. Nice spin, Sparc... You should work for Toshiba.

TidalPhoenix
10-11-2007, 22:59
How does the sale of blu-ray or HD-DVD player generate revenue for studios like Universal? It doesn't. It gives a footprint against which they can take the attach rate being reported and build a pipeline of projected revenue, but ultimately it's the sale of the films which brings the money.

The concept is simple and is why the attach rate is so important. People buying the HD-DVD players are buying them JUST to watch movies. People who are buying standalone blu-ray players are doing the same. However, people buying PS3's may, or may not, purchase films regularly.


Btw, why would I want to 'spin' it? I have a blu-ray player. I don't have a HD-DVD player.

Beodude123
10-12-2007, 01:36
Attach rate is where the studios' revenue comes from. If HD-DVD has a very strong attach rate then Universal won't be going anywhere, ergo the format war will continue to run...and run...and run...etc

The whole "if" part is the problem. So far, Blu-ray has been selling more disc units than HD DVD by a good chunk. So HD DVD doesn't have the attach rate that Blu-ray does. They might try and tell you that they do, but it's PR. I don't trust much PR from either side.