PDA

View Full Version : Paramount says that HD-DVD is too Limited for Transformers High-Res Audio



ONQ
10-16-2007, 10:38
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1110/transformers.html



The Audio: Rating the Sound


When audio specs for 'Transformers' were announced, there was a collective sigh of disappointment from early adopters when we learned that there would be no high-res audio tracks included on this disc. Given that this is such a flagship title for the studio, the decision was quite the head-scratcher.

Indeed, I had the opportunity to attend a special 'Transformers' media event with Paramount late last week, and the question was asked almost immediately -- why no Dolby TrueHD or uncompressed PCM? The studio's answer was that due to space limitations on the disc, the decision was made to limit the audio to Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround only (here at 1.5mbps). Unfortunately, this confirms the long-held theory that the 30Gb capacity of an HD-30 dual-layer HD DVD disc has forced studios to choose between offering a robust supplements package (as they've done here) and the very best in audio quality.

That said, it is hard to imagine any film taking a Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround track to its zenith better than 'Transformers.' This is one highly-aggressive experience. Discrete effects are constant and pounding, but the lack of subtlety here is exactly what fans want. Directionality, imaging, accuracy of localized effects, and the sheer depth of the soundfield are all fantastic stuff. Even the front soundstage is a stunner -- stereo effects are quite pronounced, and when the sounds ping-pong (as they do just about any time a robot transforms), it's just as cool as the first time you heard that lightsaber effect in 'Star Wars.' If I had had this disc when I was a twelve year-old kid, I don't I would have stopped playing it for months.

Also top-notch are all technical aspects of the mix. As you would expect, this is the kind of disc your subwoofer will devour. Even at moderate volume levels I was blown away by the sheer low frequencies churned out by my poor sub. Whether you're talking about the opening attack, the sequence with that weird sand Decepticon in the desert, or any sequence during the film's last 30 minutes, there's such a sustained low bass presence that it's almost like it's another character in the movie. The realism and texture to every sound -- from the effects to the score to the dialogue -- is pitch perfect. Volume issues are also, thankfully, not a problem -- I was truly shocked that I didn't have to reach for my remote once, as dialogue is leveled nicely throughout.

Note that although I'm giving this audio mix five stars, that doesn't mean I agree with Paramount's decision to forgo high-res audio on this title. Without a TrueHD or PCM mix to compare this one to, there's no way of telling how much better such a track might have been, but based on the upgrade I've seen with other titles, I'm guessing a high-res mix could well have trounced this one. That's not to take anything away from this truly exceptional mix, but this is one case where I think you truly can improve upon perfection.


well some times you have to cut corners to get where you need to be faster this time it was the sound next time it might be some Video.


I can deal with the sound not being TrueHD but I know it's a lot of people that want what they payed for and that's HD.

LaOMaN
10-16-2007, 10:45
that sucks for alot of people.
good thing i dont have surround sound yet.
will be picking transformers up today.
geting 2 copys

Raunchy™
10-16-2007, 12:14
Gosh, what a rotten bit of luck... http://i23.tinypic.com/u33pd.gif

phranctoast
10-16-2007, 12:39
well some times you have to cut corners to get where you need to be faster this time it was the sound next time it might be some Video.

Its been the video before. HDDVD cant achieve the same transfer rate as blu ray. A movie that comes out thats encoded for both formats individually will look better on blu ray.

The movie still scores a 5/5 on aq which is complete BS. They are well aware the lossless of dtshd tracks are missing yet the sound still scores as high as a blu ray movie that usually get dropped down a whole number for lacking lossless!

Don_Tezy
10-16-2007, 12:54
hmmm ... and here i was thinking they did the exclusivity deal because they figured HD DVD was superior .. who'd a thought ... i think im going to just bite the bullet guys ... going to get Transformers on standard DVD .. dont have an HD DVD player, nor do i plan on getting one at the moment.

REFLEX
10-16-2007, 13:15
Its been the video before. HDDVD cant achieve the same transfer rate as blu ray. A movie that comes out thats encoded for both formats individually will look better on blu ray.

The movie still scores a 5/5 on aq which is complete BS. They are well aware the lossless of dtshd tracks are missing yet the sound still scores as high as a blu ray movie that usually get dropped down a whole number for lacking lossless!

You don't know what your talking about. The higher bit rate on Blu-ray for video doesn't really make it any better to your eye, top rated transfers on both formats look identical. It doesn't even make sense otherwise.

The movie gets 5/5 for AQ for a reason, the DD+ track is a regular surround track, but its still higher than regular DD on a DVD, thats what HD DVD and Blu-ray can offer even for the regular tracks in 5.1. The Transformers DD+ track is amazing, they don't compare them and rate them by comparison, thats really REALLY silly, why would you think that?

I've read almost all their HD DVD and Blu-ray reviews, they are very fair in their rating and reviews.


Look at the NIN: Beside you in Time release, it was enhanced for a higher bit rate on Blu-ray and the HD DVD version looks 100% identical, I have both and all reviews say the same thing.


The DD+ track on HD DVD is VERY good, it would have been better with TrueHD of course, I'm not saying this is a good thing that they can't fit it on, its obviously a limitation, but don't talk silly - its not fun.

dnut24
10-16-2007, 16:16
:lol: <--- thats all i have to say. this is making my boycott of the movie seeming a lot better now huh? now all i have to say to the people bashing me for my opinions is, wow sucks you spent money on that HDDVD version to sound the same as a DVD copy. :bang:

Lefein
10-16-2007, 18:25
Yet another reason to not adopt HD-DVD. I'll wait for Transformers to come out to BluRay where it belongs.

Saigon
10-16-2007, 18:35
see this is why...you know never mind...don't want to get into it...this is their fault...

mrnagy88
10-16-2007, 19:23
You don't know what your talking about. The higher bit rate on Blu-ray for video doesn't really make it any better to your eye, top rated transfers on both formats look identical. It doesn't even make sense otherwise.

The movie gets 5/5 for AQ for a reason, the DD+ track is a regular surround track, but its still higher than regular DD on a DVD, thats what HD DVD and Blu-ray can offer even for the regular tracks in 5.1. The Transformers DD+ track is amazing, they don't compare them and rate them by comparison, thats really REALLY silly, why would you think that?

I've read almost all their HD DVD and Blu-ray reviews, they are very fair in their rating and reviews.


Look at the NIN: Beside you in Time release, it was enhanced for a higher bit rate on Blu-ray and the HD DVD version looks 100% identical, I have both and all reviews say the same thing.


The DD+ track on HD DVD is VERY good, it would have been better with TrueHD of course, I'm not saying this is a good thing that they can't fit it on, its obviously a limitation, but don't talk silly - its not fun.

Nah, it's probably given 5/5 because that's what HD-DVD adopters have come to accept as normal...
It's not a comparison vs the Blu-Ray because there is no blu-ray version, so obviously, there is no need to drop a point.

Lefein
10-16-2007, 19:36
Nah, it's probably given 5/5 because that's what HD-DVD adopters have come to accept as normal...
It's not a comparison vs the Blu-Ray because there is no blu-ray version, so obviously, there is no need to drop a point.

Yeah, I think HD-DVD owners are used to their half baked format by now. The full high def experience is on BluRay (audio AND video), and everyone knows it. But what I'm wondering is whether or not they will score movies that have PCM7.1, DDHD, and DTSHD with a 6/5? When BluRay becomes the standard medium, will HD-DVD movies still be graded "on the curve"?

TH3 GAM3
10-16-2007, 19:40
I'm going to be waiting for Transformers on Blu-Ray.

mansonr6
10-16-2007, 19:40
Has there been any plans to release it on Blu-Ray?

TH3 GAM3
10-16-2007, 19:42
Has there been any plans to release it on Blu-Ray?
Well Paramount is HD-DVD exclusive so we won't get it until Blu-Ray wins the war or Paramount leaves HD-DVD.

mansonr6
10-16-2007, 19:49
Well hopefully it will be soon. There's too many movies on HD I want to own on Blu-Ray, it's quite depressing...lol

PsychoBadBoy
10-16-2007, 19:55
HAHAHAHA!

Sorry, this is a sort of an "I told you so" moment addressed to Paramount for making themselves HD-DVD exclusive.

And yes, I too want this format war to be over with so I can own Transformers on Blu-Ray as well.

Nut_Man
10-16-2007, 19:55
The new standard HDDVD discs are gonna be 53gb according to what Ive read. So they can just release a version for audiophiles later? I guess.

This is kinda funny though.

Kotton
10-16-2007, 19:57
Is this really surprising considering it's on HD-DVD?

Bansh88
10-16-2007, 20:09
hmmm ... and here i was thinking they did the exclusivity deal because they figured HD DVD was superior .. .

they did the deal becasue they were given $150 million.

Organic_Shadow
10-16-2007, 20:29
Yeah, I think HD-DVD owners are used to their half baked format by now. The full high def experience is on BluRay (audio AND video), and everyone knows it. But what I'm wondering is whether or not they will score movies that have PCM7.1, DDHD, and DTSHD with a 6/5? When BluRay becomes the standard medium, will HD-DVD movies still be graded "on the curve"?

Precisely my dear Watson. Although they could technically say "well a perfect score doesn't mean it can't get any better, because what if SuperHighDefinition version comes out mister smarty pants?" but at the same time, I think it's STILL worth throwing in there that the audio had to be scaled back to fit on the disc.

I'm sure they would have actually factored that in had Transformers come out on Blu-Ray as well, but you never know...

---Brian---
10-16-2007, 20:35
Yes theres a 60gbGb Hd-Dvd coming out, big deal, theres a 100Gb Blu-Ray ready and a 200Gb blu-ray disc being tested.

REFLEX
10-16-2007, 20:39
:lol: <--- thats all i have to say. this is making my boycott of the movie seeming a lot better now huh? now all i have to say to the people bashing me for my opinions is, wow sucks you spent money on that HDDVD version to sound the same as a DVD copy. :bang:


No, again.. you are wrong.


DD+ is not on DVD, its not possible. DD+ has a higher bit rate than DD, so its still considered next-gen sound. I don't know why you people won't realize that, and if you think this is about Paramount thinking HD DVD is better you got your fanboy goggles on a bit too tight - its called money. I agree that Blu-ray is the way to go and extra room obviously is the best thing you can have in these situations, but please refrain from such fanboyish crap, DD+ is by no means garbage, did you even read the review? He says its amazing sounding, DD+ is something you cannot achieve on DVD, only on HD DVD or Blu-ray because of higher bandwidth and bitrates. Its not TrueHD or PCM but its better than regular DD. Instead of skipping to the quote about no TrueHD, why not read the review where he says its one hell of a sound track.

Nut_Man
10-16-2007, 21:51
Yes theres a 60gbGb Hd-Dvd coming out, big deal, theres a 100Gb Blu-Ray ready and a 200Gb blu-ray disc being tested.

Lol so whats this gonna turn into?

"dude my disc has got like five bazillion terabytes."

"ya well mine has five hundred gazillion"

And then they realize that everything being put on the discs does not require that amount of space and they all realize that they wasted money on a pissing contest.

HellsJester
10-16-2007, 22:17
Great news just what i was hoping to hear.

grcswoosh
10-17-2007, 00:29
I am still jealous it is not on Blu Ray. I don't care if it had mono sound.

grcswoosh
10-17-2007, 00:34
Lol so whats this gonna turn into?
...And then they realize that everything being put on the discs does not require that amount of space and they all realize that they wasted money on a pissing contest.

That is very narrow thinking. Eventually they will be putting entire series' on a single disc (Godfather trilogy, Star Wars I-VI, Seinfeld catalog) so of course you want as much space as possible.
Think if you could watch all the Star Wars movies back to back with out ever having to get up. What a wonderful universe!

soldier one
10-17-2007, 00:34
****it i was looking forward to watching this movie on my new surround sound then that whole Paramount goes HD DVD thing happened and i said whatever and started looking forward to pirates. I mean come on, why did they do this? I hope the talks of Paramount leaving the company comes true and i get to watch transformers like it should be.

SolidSnakeUS
10-17-2007, 00:44
I wonder how their cooperation will be in the future now.

medetron
10-17-2007, 10:20
No, again.. you are wrong.


DD+ is not on DVD, its not possible. DD+ has a higher bit rate than DD, so its still considered next-gen sound. I don't know why you people won't realize that, and if you think this is about Paramount thinking HD DVD is better you got your fanboy goggles on a bit too tight - its called money. I agree that Blu-ray is the way to go and extra room obviously is the best thing you can have in these situations, but please refrain from such fanboyish crap, DD+ is by no means garbage, did you even read the review? He says its amazing sounding, DD+ is something you cannot achieve on DVD, only on HD DVD or Blu-ray because of higher bandwidth and bitrates. Its not TrueHD or PCM but its better than regular DD. Instead of skipping to the quote about no TrueHD, why not read the review where he says its one hell of a sound track.

OMG! man stfu, everything that comes out of your mouth is hd-dvd propaganda. you're whole statment on dd+ bing great is like taking it back to the days when neo geo first came out. it was suppose to compete with nintendo and sega but saying dd+ is great is the same thing as saying well ok we take what we can get. and thats exactly what paramount did. i hope they enjoy all those millions of dollars they got for backing up hd-dvd. i'm sure they will need every single dollar to back out of there deal once hd-dvd goes away. i for one will not pick up this movie in standerd dvd nor will i EVER pick it up on hd-dvd. if someone gave me a copy on hd-dvd i would burn it in there face. also all that crap about being a fanboy is stupid. is this forum called blu-ray vs. hd-dvd or which one is better? NO ITS CALLED PS3FORUMS. take a wild guess about what this forum is all about.

REFLEX
10-17-2007, 10:31
OMG! man stfu, everything that comes out of your mouth is hd-dvd propaganda. you're whole statment on dd+ bing great is like taking it back to the days when neo geo first came out. it was suppose to compete with nintendo and sega but saying dd+ is great is the same thing as saying well ok we take what we can get. and thats exactly what paramount did. i hope they enjoy all those millions of dollars they got for backing up hd-dvd. i'm sure they will need every single dollar to back out of there deal once hd-dvd goes away. i for one will not pick up this movie in standerd dvd nor will i EVER pick it up on hd-dvd. if someone gave me a copy on hd-dvd i would burn it in there face. also all that crap about being a fanboy is stupid. is this forum called blu-ray vs. hd-dvd or which one is better? NO ITS CALLED PS3FORUMS. take a wild guess about what this forum is all about.


28 posts and your telling me to "shut the **** up", and you think you know that I talk about "HD DVD Propaganda"? Are you actually going to dispute that DD+ isn't a higher bit rate than DD? I mean there are countless Blu-ray titles that only have DD+ on them, why don't you go attack them? Or let me guess, that wouldn't fit your agenda would it? I mean you obviously are the one with an agenda because your telling me that for your 28 posts you have seen all of mine over more than a year and that "all I say is HD DVD Proganda"? Just because its labeled a Blu-ray forum, it should not give you an excuse to say such silly things. I mean, come on really - defend yourself, Sony, Fox/MGM, both exclusive, Warner Titles, former Paramount titles on Blu-ray...... other existing dual format releases, Blu-ray versions have DD+ on them, I don't see you saying anything about them, but when a big movie like Transformers comes out and gives people like you ammunition in a silly war mindset - this is what you get - people like you using it as an excuse to look the other way at the faults of Blu-ray releases. Why don't you complain or laugh at those Blu-ray titles with DD+? Hm?

Please, stop kidding yourself into thinking something you want to believe. If you had any idea what I'm about, its thinking before posting something like you just did. How is anything I have said HD DVD propaganda?

This is a Blu-ray forum, we should have level heads, not fan-boy goggles on like you. Posts like yours are part of what makes this place a pain to read.


You = reported. Thanks.

medetron
10-17-2007, 10:39
28 posts and your telling me to "shut the **** up", and you think you know that I talk about "HD DVD Propaganda"?


Please, stop kidding yourself into thinking something you want to believe. If you had any idea what I'm about, its thinking before posting something like you just did. How is anything I have said HD DVD propaganda?

This is a Blu-ray forum, we should have level heads, not fan-boy goggles on like you. Posts like yours are part of what makes this place a pain to read.


Your PSN ID: The Kid really says a lot about you.

You = reported. Thanks.


i just won 20 dollars :), how did i know you was sitting around your little puter itching to write something back 10 seconds later, whatever man. i read every single thing here theres a difference of not posting and stoping by. i dont post cuz this is what usually ends up happening. go ahead go tell your mom someone is picking on you, makes no difference to me. dd+ IS crap. and while yes some blu-ray titles use this i for one try not to pick those titles up as i'm paying more then 30 dollars for each title and dont want crap audio like that, its nex-gen format war taht crap doesnt belong on blu-ray. hope paramount enjoys seeing it on all there movies. on a side note did anyone else think megatron turning into an airplane was just plain retarded? seriously i thought the characters lack development in every single way. i grew up watching transformers on tv and was hoping more then what i got. i can't wait to see the numbers of sales in aweek or two and i'm actually curious to see what type of numbers transformers puts up. if its high expect the hd-dvd camp to ride this crap till the end. if not you can still bet the hd-dvd camp will praise it lol.

REFLEX
10-17-2007, 10:50
i just won 20 dollars :), how did i know you was sitting around your little puter itching to write something back 10 seconds later, whatever man. i read every single thing here theres a difference of not posting and stoping by. i dont post cuz this is what usually ends up happening. go ahead go tell your mom someone is picking on you, makes no difference to me. dd+ IS crap. and while yes some blu-ray titles use this i for one try not to pick those titles up as i'm paying more then 30 dollars for each title and dont want crap audio like that, its nex-gen format war taht crap doesnt belong on blu-ray. hope paramount enjoys seeing it on all there movies. on a side note did anyone else think megatron turning into an airplane was just plain retarded? seriously i thought the characters lack development in every single way. i grew up watching transformers on tv and was hoping more then what i got. i can't wait to see the numbers of sales in aweek or two and i'm actually curious to see what type of numbers transformers puts up. if its high expect the hd-dvd camp to ride this crap till the end. if not you can still bet the hd-dvd camp will praise it lol.


Yes, thats right. First time I have posted or checked my email in hours is 11 minutes after you post that. Wow - such a crazy thing, surely that never happens.

See, you have the mentality of a person who doesn't think very much. Its very clear in your posts, I wrote very true and logical things, and you responded with more insults that have no bearing in anything.

If anything, since I haven't checked my email in hours, in fact 1 full movie and some video games - it seems like you're the one who was "itching beside the computer" waiting for a response, I mean.. doesn't it? According to your own logic that is, which seems to be pretty flawed.

Again, you are reported. This forums hardly tolerates fan boy garbage, whether from a PS3 fan or a HD DVD fan or a Blu-ray fan or any kind. Your kind of comments are what ruins these forums, we have all seen it here first hand on a daily basis.

You say things that are not true, 100% complete lies just based off of your negative opinions which are only based off of your skewed opinion. And you trash talk for no reason. If you knew anything about me just from reading these forums you'd know I love both formats, but I want Blu-ray to win, ask anyone. Anyone.

If you know anything you'd know DD+ is a higher bit rate than regular DD and can easily sound better. You'd know that I always said Paramount made a mistake. You'd know that I always said HD DVD was limited by storage.

So we can easily see that the things you said were complete lies and utter useless negative comments on your part for NO reason, you were wrong about the subject, wrong about me and you continue to insult. You can keep walking into corners if you want, fine by me.

medetron
10-17-2007, 11:00
Yes, thats right. First time I have posted or checked my email in hours is 11 minutes after you post that. Wow - such a crazy thing, surely that never happens.

See, you have the mentality of a person who doesn't think very much. Its very clear in your posts, I wrote very true and logical things, and you responded with more insults that have no bearing in anything.

If anything, since I haven't checked my email in hours, in fact 1 full movie and some video games - it seems like you're the one who was "itching beside the computer" waiting for a response, I mean.. doesn't it? According to your own logic that is, which seems to be pretty flawed.

Again, you are reported. This forums hardly tolerates fan boy garbage, whether from a PS3 fan or a HD DVD fan or a Blu-ray fan or any kind. Your kind of comments are what ruins these forums, we have all seen it here first hand on a daily basis.

You say things that are not true, 100% complete lies just based off of your negative opinions which are only based off of your skewed opinion. And you trash talk for no reason. If you knew anything about me just from reading these forums you'd know I love both formats, but I want Blu-ray to win, ask anyone. Anyone.

If you know anything you'd know DD+ is a higher bit rate than regular DD and can easily sound better. You'd know that I always said Paramount made a mistake. You'd know that I always said HD DVD was limited by storage.

So we can easily see that the things you said were complete lies and utter useless negative comments on your part for NO reason, you were wrong about the subject, wrong about me and you continue to insult. You can keep walking into corners if you want, fine by me.


lol you continue to surpirse me man, i guess this is how you got such a high post count. IF you read what i wrote beofre you would've notice i said dd+ is CRAP, did you get that part??? i stand by that opnion and enlighting you a bit more what i mean by that is i dont care if its better quailtiy then whats on a dvd. at this point BOTH SIDES are better then a sanderd dvd, as it should be. all i'm saying is that it doesnt give paramount an excuse to say dd+ is the best. its great but doesnt count for the lack of sound quality they are losing. as stated in the review posted dd+ sounded great BUT as even the reviwer stated who knows how it would have sounded if dd+ wasnt choosing. end of my agrument with you as its gonna go nowhere. you also have been reported for stalking my post along with a few other members. have a nice day and god bless

ajrobin
10-17-2007, 11:03
stop this now or this thread will be closed and i'll report you both for flaming/insulting

REFLEX
10-17-2007, 11:08
lol you continue to surpirse me man, i guess this is how you got such a high post count. IF you read what i wrote beofre you would've notice i said dd+ is CRAP, did you get that part??? i stand by that opnion and enlighting you a bit more what i mean by that is i dont care if its better quailtiy then whats on a dvd. at this point BOTH SIDES are better then a sanderd dvd, as it should be. all i'm saying is that it doesnt give paramount an excuse to say dd+ is the best. its great but doesnt count for the lack of sound quality they are losing. as stated in the review posted dd+ sounded great BUT as even the reviwer stated who knows how it would have sounded if dd+ wasnt choosing. end of my agrument with you as its gonna go nowhere. you also have been reported for stalking my post along with a few other members. have a nice day and god bless


Here, this is not taken out of context at all you clearly said " it is crap "


dd+ IS crap.


Now as for what you just said to me, obviously you are lying again. You think I didn't read what you typed? I read what you said before and you clearly said "it is crap", HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA, what are you trying to say here? Are you that confused?

Paramount NEVER said DD+ is the best, when did they say its the best!? Man you .... just have no clue. This is hilarious.

Reported my posts for "stalking" your posts? What does that even mean? I'm not allowed to post a reply in the same topic?? HAHA.... Heres a news flash! WE ARE ON THE INTERNET! Hahaha.

Oh my god, this is classic..... I mean what were you thinking?! haha.



stop this now or this thread will be closed and i'll report you both for flaming/insulting

Haha..... I'm not insulting anyone really, I mean.. this guy is doing all that work for me..

sonyfan6
10-17-2007, 21:18
This should come as no surprise to anyone. Paramount originally was going to release Blades of Glory with PCM on blu-ray before the hd-dvd deal. The hd-dvd Blades of Glory does not have 'hd' audio.

Oh, and for the misinformed consumer that mentioned the 51 GB hd-dvd disc that's a complete PR ploy. Those are created by cramming an extra 2 GB per layer, creating 17 instead of 15 GB layers. It is theoretically possible but significantly lowers yields, which is why hd-dvd is only spec'd for 17 GB per layer. Blu-ray can do the same thing and go 30 GB per layer, but it drops the yields, which is why blu-ray is spec'd at 25 GB per layer. Also, there's that nasty problem that hd-dvd has yet to make a three layer production line at 45 GB. The 51 GB disc is just a PR tool to trick casual consumers into thinking that hd-dvd can compete with blu-ray's storage capacity. Say what you will about either format, but ultimately, blu-ray is higher storage capacity than hd-dvd. Any comment to the contrary from hd-dvd is just marketing spin.

dnut24
10-17-2007, 21:47
No, again.. you are wrong.


DD+ is not on DVD, its not possible. DD+ has a higher bit rate than DD, so its still considered next-gen sound. I don't know why you people won't realize that, and if you think this is about Paramount thinking HD DVD is better you got your fanboy goggles on a bit too tight - its called money. I agree that Blu-ray is the way to go and extra room obviously is the best thing you can have in these situations, but please refrain from such fanboyish crap, DD+ is by no means garbage, did you even read the review? He says its amazing sounding, DD+ is something you cannot achieve on DVD, only on HD DVD or Blu-ray because of higher bandwidth and bitrates. Its not TrueHD or PCM but its better than regular DD. Instead of skipping to the quote about no TrueHD, why not read the review where he says its one hell of a sound track.

you just love arguing with people man, get over it. i see it on all posts by you, no matter what topic it is. just like this one here, i simply scroll past. you try to put in technical mumbo jumbo to make your self look brighter, but it doesn't. i bet your just like this friend of mine that argues bout everything and has an answer to it all. and by the way, dont bother repsonding, because i wont even read your comments, they kinda bore me.

dnut24
10-17-2007, 21:50
OMG! man stfu, everything that comes out of your mouth is hd-dvd propaganda. you're whole statment on dd+ bing great is like taking it back to the days when neo geo first came out. it was suppose to compete with nintendo and sega but saying dd+ is great is the same thing as saying well ok we take what we can get. and thats exactly what paramount did. i hope they enjoy all those millions of dollars they got for backing up hd-dvd. i'm sure they will need every single dollar to back out of there deal once hd-dvd goes away. i for one will not pick up this movie in standerd dvd nor will i EVER pick it up on hd-dvd. if someone gave me a copy on hd-dvd i would burn it in there face. also all that crap about being a fanboy is stupid. is this forum called blu-ray vs. hd-dvd or which one is better? NO ITS CALLED PS3FORUMS. take a wild guess about what this forum is all about.


haha see reflex, even other people have your card. oh and your DD+ this and that non sense. answer me one question.... what is the audio format playing out of the reciever on DVD and the HD DVD of transformers? ladies and gentlemen, it is 5.1 dolby digital! who give a hell bout your jargon, the output is the same. oh unless you have special ears or something, which i'm sure you do.

dnut24
10-17-2007, 21:56
You = reported. Thanks.


:lol: just saw this. ^ wins award for best post ever. hahaha

REFLEX
10-17-2007, 22:01
:lol: just saw this. ^ wins award for best post ever. hahaha

Triple posting. Not a good idea.


The "Technical jargon" you speak of is the ONLY way to talk about what is going on with a HD DVD or Blu-ray disc, do you want me to dumb down the words or something? I don't understand that comment, how can I talk about bit rates and DD+ without saying that?

And actually you are wrong, when you check what bit rate your receiver is getting from a DD track then a DD+ you can see the bitrate difference, its right there in #s on your screen. So I don't know what you are talking about really, it makes no sense.

nuffmon
10-17-2007, 22:01
Well if transformers doesn't come to Blu-ray i won't buy it at all. No longer buying DVD's, can't be bothered with this second rate stuff.

dnut24
10-18-2007, 04:05
[quote=REFLEX;2068536]Triple posting. Not a good idea.

quote]


HAHAHA. nevermind, this one takes the cake! :suspect: well i'm not sure. i do like the crying one too.

Vulgotha
10-18-2007, 04:08
Why is anyone surprised by this. I mean really?

I know I'm not.

Nut_Man
10-18-2007, 05:23
Think if you could watch all the Star Wars movies back to back with out ever having to get up. What a wonderful universe!

I dont think I like the way you said that. I dont have a problem walking 3 feet to put in a different movie to watch.

Aift
10-18-2007, 05:28
I guess I should have seen it in theaters.

leukoplast
10-18-2007, 05:58
Another reason why HD-DVD is a failure.

When will those moronic studios accept the truth? Possibly when Toshiba stops throwing money at them...

damon_c
10-18-2007, 15:14
exactly. this is a prime example that the size factor is an issue now. this movie SHOULD have been on br. thats ok. they wont get my money till its on the right high def media.

grcswoosh
10-18-2007, 19:50
I dont think I like the way you said that. I dont have a problem walking 3 feet to put in a different movie to watch.
Of course, but be honest, it would be nice to not have to. Or to be able to watch any Seinfeld episode off one disc and not have to search the boxes for your favorite episodes. It also takes up way less physical space. Practically, it just makes more sense.

BTW. For someone that doesn't mind getting up to change the disc why are you too lazy to type the apostrophe in your "dont"s?

REFLEX
10-18-2007, 23:38
Of course, but be honest, it would be nice to not have to. Or to be able to watch any Seinfeld episode off one disc and not have to search the boxes for your favorite episodes. It also takes up way less physical space. Practically, it just makes more sense.

BTW. For someone that doesn't mind getting up to change the disc why are you too lazy to type the apostrophe in your "dont"s?


They aren't going to put whole seasons of shows on 1 disc..... I mean look at Sopranos, its still a few episodes per disc. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. Not this generation, HD picture and possible HD sound = a lot of disc space, so you can't just cram them all in one unless you are putting DVD quality images on a Blu-ray disc, which would make no sense.

grcswoosh
10-19-2007, 00:12
I think you are mistaken. When Blu Ray hits quad layer that will be 100GB, <br />
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_capacity_video <br />
that will be roughly 18 hrs of HD, 45 hrs of DVD. Plenty of room for a...

REFLEX
10-19-2007, 00:16
But..... they have said they have plans to use these, do they even know if current Blu-ray players can even read them? I mean we have known about the 100gig Blu-ray disc for a long time now, but no...

grcswoosh
10-19-2007, 00:26
But..... they have said they have plans to use these, do they even know if current Blu-ray players can even read them? I mean we have known about the 100gig Blu-ray disc for a long time now, but no one was excited because they never said before if current BD players could even read them properly.

I mean that article is almost 2 years old now.... they talk more as if they are going to eventually (but when?) use it for storage capacity, they do not mention anywhere about movies, they said for archiving video from a home or business aspect and data for storage..... ?
Whatever man, even if the standard 50GB saves them 1 disc per package they are going to save the money and time. That is the point.

REFLEX
10-19-2007, 00:32
Whatever man, even if the standard 50GB saves them 1 disc per package they are going to save the money and time. That is the point.

I know what the point is, but my point is that they have never said they have any plans for this stuff. I mean a 50gig disc is one thing, thats fine. But also you gotta remember that a lot of shows that are going to be released will be dual format and for them to save money they will have to go BD25 like we have seen in the past, there will be many exceptions, but I guess TV shows won't make them enough money right now anyway with so few people buying HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs compared to DVD.

Metfanant
10-19-2007, 01:04
wow...gotta come to the defense of REFLEX here...i don't think REFLEX is in anyway a fanboy of either format...i think REFLEX is in the camp that just wants to eventually see a winner...no matter what side it is....

the only thing i think REFLEX is a fanboy of is having one bad @$$ home theater!

grcswoosh
10-19-2007, 01:11
wow...gotta come to the defense of REFLEX here...i don't think REFLEX is in anyway a fanboy of either format...i think REFLEX is in the camp that just wants to eventually see a winner...no matter what side it is....

the only thing i think REFLEX is a fanboy of is having one bad @$$ home theater!
I am not implying that REFLEX is a fanboy. I am just trying to say that the more capacity the better for the manufacturers and for the consumers. No ill will in any way.

REFLEX
10-19-2007, 01:36
He was just talking about that other guy, not you dude.. don't worry. I agree with your points about capacity and consumers and manufacturers, I just think its going to be a good while before we see anything like this.

grcswoosh
10-19-2007, 01:41
He was just talking about that other guy, not you dude.. don't worry. I agree with your points about capacity and consumers and manufacturers, I just think its going to be a good while before we see anything like this.
A man can dream can't he? :sleep:

AMG44
10-19-2007, 02:18
Thats just ridiculous!!!! If someone is going to spend $30-35 on a HD format disc it better be fully loaded. I spent almost 6 g's on my home audio and i'll be ****ed if I spend the money on that audio choice. Im so glad i have a BD/PS3.

REFLEX
10-19-2007, 02:43
Thats just ridiculous!!!! If someone is going to spend $30-35 on a HD format disc it better be fully loaded. I spent almost 6 g's on my home audio and i'll be ****ed if I spend the money on that audio choice. Im so glad i have a BD/PS3.


Well then you must not buy a lot of Blu-ray discs as well then right?

AMG44
10-19-2007, 04:35
Well then you must not buy a lot of Blu-ray discs as well then right?

actually i have quite a few and almost all of them have uncompressed audio (i think 2 w true hd) and the ones that dont still sound good running through the hdmi. ive noticed a huge difference on my receiver (marantz). Im getting a lot more decibels w/ relatively lower volume settings and marantz arent known for high output like a rotel or a nad receiver.

REFLEX
10-19-2007, 06:51
actually i have quite a few and almost all of them have uncompressed audio (i think 2 w true hd) and the ones that dont still sound good running through the hdmi. ive noticed a huge difference on my receiver (marantz). Im getting a lot more decibels w/ relatively lower volume settings and marantz arent known for high output like a rotel or a nad receiver.


Yeah, Marantz are nice units for sure. I find a few PCM tracks to be a bit quiet sometimes, usually the voice mixes, this is a common problem with certain discs that have been documented by various review sites and tech heads. I have about 70 Blu-ray titles and about 80 HD DVD titles and quite a few of the Blu-ray titles don't have lossless or uncompressed audio on them, its a shame, but its true.

I mean Blu-ray and HD DVD both offer higher bit rates anyway, even the 1.5 DTS:MA or HD cores sound better than a lot of other stuff, depending on the movies.

icantwaitmuchlonger
10-19-2007, 06:55
Yet another reason to not adopt HD-DVD. I'll wait for Transformers to come out to BluRay where it belongs.

That's exactly what I'm going to do.

grcswoosh
10-19-2007, 07:36
Couldn't Paramount release the higher quality audio on a second disc and just say "press play at exactly the same time".
Sort of like Pink Floyd's The Wall along with The Wizard of Oz

Dasimpse
10-19-2007, 14:58
DD+ is ok. You need a true HD encoder to get true hd (obviousley) i havnt upgraded yet. Will soon though and im sure ill complain then :D but for now im happy DD+ sounds amazing.

I think all the people complaining should post up pictures of their killer surround "true HD" systems. then the complaints are atleast valid.

dc writer
10-19-2007, 21:52
I have to admit, I was hoping to watch Transformers on blu-ray in my ps3... :(

jXales
10-20-2007, 00:35
lol REFLEX. You really were attracting a good 'intelligent' crowd there (for you 'intelligent' people, i mean idiots).

:D unbelievable that they come to a public forum which is a place to DEBATE and try and downplay you. It's hilarious. And then they attack you in defense? It just goes to show that when you close an idiot in a corner in which he cannot reason his way out of they will swing in every direction.

Anyway @ topic.

A limitation is a limitation no matter how you slice it. I am a blu supporter but not to the extreme. I was definately planning on getting this flick on blu-ray until paramount became jeckyl, however i will most likely still be getting it on DVD. No reason to lose out on a good movie just because of a stupid corporate decision.

Paramount is tied to HD DVD for 18 months. A lot can happen in 18 months. blu-ray could already win, lose maybe we'll see a dual format generation.. either way, let the grease headed execs fight the war and enjoy the benefits of the war.

prices have already gone down insanely fast, both are pushing for more features etc. it's all good so far, now all we need is a definate winner :)

REFLEX
10-20-2007, 00:40
lol REFLEX. You really were attracting a good 'intelligent' crowd there (for you 'intelligent' people, i mean idiots).

:D unbelievable that they come to a public forum which is a place to DEBATE and try and downplay you. It's hilarious. And then they attack you in defense? It just goes to show that when you close an idiot in a corner in which he cannot reason his way out of they will swing in every direction.

Anyway @ topic.

A limitation is a limitation no matter how you slice it. I am a blu supporter but not to the extreme. I was definately planning on getting this flick on blu-ray until paramount became jeckyl, however i will most likely still be getting it on DVD. No reason to lose out on a good movie just because of a stupid corporate decision.

Paramount is tied to HD DVD for 18 months. A lot can happen in 18 months. blu-ray could already win, lose maybe we'll see a dual format generation.. either way, let the grease headed execs fight the war and enjoy the benefits of the war.

prices have already gone down insanely fast, both are pushing for more features etc. it's all good so far, now all we need is a definate winner :)


Sometimes when you speak the truth about something that a lot of people love (Blu-ray) you get some people trying to attack you for some reason, as if it were their family member or something. Its not like I said anything bad anyway, I was just stating that if you look at the reviews for Audio on the Transformers HD DVD you will see that it got like near perfect or a perfect score from like 10 places. Then some people fail to realize that there are lots of Blu-ray discs that don't have TrueHD or lossless audio, just DD+ or whatever else, lower bit rate next-gen audio codecs.

grcswoosh
10-20-2007, 00:45
... I was just stating that if you look at the reviews for Audio on the Transformers HD DVD you will see that it got like near perfect or a perfect score from like 10 places. Then some people fail to realize that there are lots of Blu-ray discs that don't have TrueHD or lossless audio, just DD+ or whatever else, lower bit rate next-gen audio codecs.
Exactly! Besides, DD+ is better that what most theaters use anyways. This movie has so much bass that it could rock your house down if you have a good system! It is not fair to see this as a negative.

REFLEX
10-20-2007, 01:06
The movie does sound amazing, the DD+ track on this movie sounds better than a lot of TrueHD titles or PCM titles out there on either format. The reason is the same when we look at video, I mean.... just because it HD doesn't mean anything, if its not good in the first place then its not going to be great, look at reviews for certain next-gen discs that use PCM or TrueHD, sometimes they can get pretty low ratings because the actual mix isn't that good, the bass isn't tight, direction is really bad, etc. etc. The Transformers mix is basically near perfect if not perfect for audio. Thats why it got rated so high.

YES - It would have been awesome to get a TrueHD mix and elevate the track that much more, its a shame and a mistake to not include it, that has been my stand point since day 1, it should have had TrueHD on it. And its silly that Paramount went they way they did, but it all doesn't change the fact that it sounds amazing - regardless.

farnlc
10-25-2007, 21:37
Is this disc using the latest in HD-DVD layering? Isn't there a 3 level disk that may have had more space?

chip
10-25-2007, 21:40
Bring it out on Blu Ray you sodding sods!!!!!!

sonyfan6
10-26-2007, 15:40
Is this disc using the latest in HD-DVD layering? Isn't there a 3 level disk that may have had more space?

No there isn't. That is a PR stunt. HD-DVD has yet to produce any three layer discs at the consumer level, let alone a production line that reliably crams additional data on the disc. CD, DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-ray, all of these have the capability to cram additional data, however the yield suffers tremendously. That's why the 17 GB per layer hd-dvd test disc will never come to consumers, it's just a tech demo.

Beodude123
10-26-2007, 16:10
OMG! man stfu, everything that comes out of your mouth is hd-dvd propaganda. you're whole statment on dd+ bing great is like taking it back to the days when neo geo first came out. it was suppose to compete with nintendo and sega but saying dd+ is great is the same thing as saying well ok we take what we can get. and thats exactly what paramount did. i hope they enjoy all those millions of dollars they got for backing up hd-dvd. i'm sure they will need every single dollar to back out of there deal once hd-dvd goes away. i for one will not pick up this movie in standerd dvd nor will i EVER pick it up on hd-dvd. if someone gave me a copy on hd-dvd i would burn it in there face. also all that crap about being a fanboy is stupid. is this forum called blu-ray vs. hd-dvd or which one is better? NO ITS CALLED PS3FORUMS. take a wild guess about what this forum is all about.


Just out of curiosity, do you even have the equipment to decode DTS : Master Audio or Dolby True HD? If you don't, then you saying that Dolby Digital + is crap doesn't really hold much water does it?

Also, burning something in somebody's face? That seems a bit much to me. If I got it, I would probably just sell it to somebody else... At least I would get something from it.

From what I've seen, Reflex is pretty middle of the boat on both of the HD formats, and he definitely knows what he is talking about. I've had numerous PM discussions with him, and he is certainly not a fanboy.