Originally Posted by Foraeli
OK I dont mind a disucssion but quoting me out of contest is not on.
Compared to the PS4 yes for the hardware and software reasons that I have suggested and you haven't produced any evidance that the PC's is more efficient that the PS4 at GPGPU to counter my claims. While I have shown reasons why for what it is the PS4 will be way more efficeient. The only way the PC beats the PS4 is via brute force I stand by my assertion that the PS4 will smoke mid range PC /PC GPU's it has 4 times the aces and over 32 times the compute ques and nearly twice the bandwidth of the PCIe 3.
So it's been inefficient to do compute physics on a GPGPU for PC for all these years but not for PS4's GPGPU?
In efficency yes PS3 does not have the brute power of the top end machines (neither does it have 600+watt power supply and stand at about six times the volume in size either).
The PS4 smokes PC in terms of GPGPU capablitites?
Where did I say that Direct X 11.2 would give a boost to phsyics calculations it actually gives advantage for tiling.
DirectX 11.2 will give a relevant boost to physics calculations in a way that will make for the GPU only being a mid-range card?
Here is a quote I found
Windows 8.1 will bring DirectX 11.2 support, which includes plenty of performance tweaks, new Direct3D features such as Tiled Resources and other goodies. However, there’s still no DirectX 11.2 hardware out there, sort of.
AMD’s GCN-based GPUs are fully compatible with DirectX 11.2 at least in theory. All it takes to make them DX 11.2 enabled is a driver tweak. We suspected HD 7000 series GCN parts were DirectX 11.2 compatible for quite some time and now it’s official.
AMD says the HD 7000 series is fully compatible with DX 11.2 with a new driver, which should appear in the Windows 8.1 launch timeframe, in October.
“Today, AMD is the only GPU manufacturer to offer fully-compatible DirectX 11.1 support, and the only manufacturer to support Tiled Resources Tier-2 within a shipping product stack,” AMD said in a statement.
This means that by the end of the year AMD will have two generations of DirectX 11.2 compatible products, while Nvidia might end up with none. We’ll try to find out more on Nvidia’s DirectX 11.x plans as the Windows 8.1 rollout draws near.
Your claim that the PS4 is "nothing but a mid tier PC" is wrong as no GPU's run direct x 11.2 at the moment but the PS4 will have that ability your trying to play the PS4 down by comapring it to a older generation memory card but I have proven that it is on the cutting edge of this generations GPU's as far as functionalty and hardware and even has extra hardware that no GPU on the market has in the same quanties at this time or anywhere in the near future.
I seem to be the only one pulling in mutlitple sources direct from the manufacturer or direct from the head of design of the PS4 here I havent seen one of my claims debunked by offical sources from you on the other hand.
You seem to be fabricating this all out of thin air.
I have quoted deep down you haven't rebutted the effects shown there yet and shown a superior PC example.
Why not post a game that actually outdoes what PC has been doing instead?
How about the Order 1666
The Order is a third-person shooter, and it’s billed as the first game in a franchise of titles that may also spill out into other forms of media. Set in an alternate post-industrial revolution London, the game’s steampunk, almost Dickensian veneer was researched by a snap-happy studio trip to London, in which Weerasuriya and his crew took over 38,000 photos of the city.
Why? Well, the game’s core hook isn’t steampunk, or the arkane, or even those brilliant twirled moustaches we’ve seen so far. Those photos were actually research for both the game’s aesthetic design and the team’s material creation tools, as well as its bespoke ‘Abel’ physics engine. We were shown photos of zoomed-in cobblestones, of granite and gravel, each taken to make the world of The Order visually impressive, believable and most importantly – destructible.
The game has dynamic destruction, and while we’re not talking about Battlefield 4 levels of military bombast, Ready At Dawn’s surface and environmental destruction is rather impressive. We saw Weerasuriya jump into a stone courtyard and pumped rounds from the protagonist’s Combogun – an assault rifle and shotgun hybrid – into a brass fixture set into a wall. The object crumpled and imploded with force after each round found its mark, deforming it in real-time.
Also check out the many gifs of Infamous Second Son for particle effects and distructablity.
It's day one of Gamescom 2013 and Digital Foundry is attending Sony's indie showcase, playing Housemarque's PS4 debut and talking tech with the developer - and we're hugely impressed with the game. Resogun ticks all the boxes in what we would want from a console exclusive - it's feels great to play, it's technologically groundbreaking, visually arresting and built from the ground up with the capabilities of the host hardware specifically in mind. Remember when Mark Cerny talked about GPU compute becoming more important a few years into the PS4 lifecycle? Resogun - a launch title - is already putting the Radeon graphics hardware through its paces with a range of effects that could only be done on a system built upon a surfeit of GPU power, a console like PlayStation 4.
Enormous explosions, waves of enemies and bullet storms are all par for the course, backed by the screen-filling pyrotechnics you've come to expect from this developer. Housemarque's approach in realising the digital carnage is intriguing: environments are created from hundreds of thousands of cubes, each of which is individually animated by GPU-accelerated physics.
"The entire environment - everything - is built up from these voxels," explains Kruger. "All of the cubes that you see flying around - there's no gimmick, no point sprites, it's not a particle effect, they're actual physical cubes. In gameplay, dynamic cubes with collisions, floating around, you can get up to 200,000. Our engine supports up to 500,000 but in actual gameplay scenarios, it rarely goes over 200K."
The technology behind the cube-based construction of each level is as typically ingenious as you would expect from a Housemarque title.
"It's actually pretty interesting tech because as you can see, the environments are fully destructible and both the background and the gameplay ring are loaded from 3D textures - and then they're polygonised on the fly," Kruger says.
"So basically what happens is that the mesh for the actual background geometry is generated, then when an explosion happens and a part of it is chipped away, that particular segment is reconstructed. That's what's happening on the GPU side with compute shaders - but with nice performance."
Resogun's aesthetic is almost entirely defined by its remarkable physics, and it's a match made in heaven with the compute-heavy skew of the PlayStation 4 hardware. Harry Kruger reels off a list of the various non-render based effects that utilise the PS4 graphics hardware.
"We're using compute shaders for a lot of things like the Overdrive particles you see later, the lightning up there - that's all done on GPU. The actual cubes - the physics and the collisions that you see bouncing, the geometry - that's all done on the GPU-side," he says, before going into more depth on how the 3D texturing works on the 'ring' - the gameplay layer of the environment.
"For the ring, it's the same thing as the background but slightly different tech because here we have one 3D texture that's basically one long rectangular prism. We use these bent cubes, or curved cubes - that's a better way of putting it. Every time an explosion happens these are essentially detached from the world."
Resogun is distinctive because everything about it is designed to service this particular gameplay experience for just this one piece of console technology. In a world where game technology is designed to be scalable across various pieces of hardware with very different performance levels, the result feels fresh and exciting yet, at the same time, evocative of the PS2 era, when the majority of games were built around the specific strengths of Ken Kutaragi's forward-looking hardware. In the present day, it's the PS4's graphics tech and the sheer volume of memory available that are singled out by Housemarque:
"Compute shaders are the big thing and of course the RAM," says Harry Kruger. "We're using over 500 megabytes just for the level geometry. It's all optimised in real-time. We don't have the full 3D texture in memory because as you can see, the level's pretty empty in this case so all the levels are generated into separate sub-meshes."
After a fairly hopeless first effort on our part, Kreuger takes the controls. The screen comes alive with total destruction as he cuts effortlessly through the waves of oncoming enemies, scooping up humans, dropping them off at the rescue point and powering up his weaponry. Heading for terra firma and Overdriving his way through the gun turrets, the screen explodes with hundreds of animated cubes. As our discussion continues, a native 1080p60 is confirmed, with a deferred lighting system in place for theoretically illuminating the scene with hundreds of light sources, but Housemarque is surprisingly restrained in its usage.
"Practically, it would just be too noisy visually," he explains.
On top of the full HD, 60Hz experience, it's clear that Resogun's presentation is extremely clean. A deferred lighting solution would suggest that - in common with most next-gen console games - multi-sampling anti-aliasing (MSAA) is off the table, yet aside from just a tiny touch of pixel flicker around the main ship, Resogun looks really smooth.
Impressive stuff. Resogun has only been in development for 18 months, and the quality of this code - which almost maintains its 1080p60 target - is exceptionally good. For a game that emphasis GPU compute so much, for Housemarque to have come so far so quickly is testament to the skills of its development team. Development of this PS4-specific game must surely have begun on unfinished hardware, and Kruger acknowledges that this is the case. When I suggest that coding for PS4 so specifically on prototype hardware must have been exceptionally challenging, the response is a simple "indeed".
The game you see on this page is described as "work in progress, but relatively indicative of what we're going for" - and we're told that the main push for optimisation has yet to begin. The small dips in the frame-rate will almost certainly be ironed out, and as the demo level concludes with the destruction of the boss and the complete obliteration of the entire level into its individual, GPU-driven component cuboids, we get perhaps the most dramatic example yet of the host hardware's computational power.
So at launch we allready have numerous games that are using some of the compute power of the PS4 GPU this is just first generation and look how fast this indi dev has managed to develope this game 18 months on brand new hardware.
Your completely underestmating Huma the "supercharged GPU" of the PS4 (Mark C's words in quotes not mine) the sony ICE team that done remarkable things with Spurs on Cell that they can port over to the GPU for GPU Compute (yes Sony even has its own compute engines developed since the PS3 started).
I would like to know how I am making things up when you can see the evidance of your own eyes from these first games.
And I would like to see any PC game that stands up to the realtime demo that Quantic Dreams run in the Sorcerer best looking graphics for figures I have ever seen on any platform.