Naruto Manga Talk (Spoilers inside)

[Fon]

Look all that "no other choice, did it for the right reasons" crap aside, dude murdered his own family who loved him which is an evil act. He probably killed other young uchiha cause I doubt sasuke was the only one and I doubt every one was in on the coup. So he can rot in hell in my book

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It's not a depraved path which is what you're arguing here.

[itachi73378]

Look all that "no other choice, did it for the right reasons" crap aside, dude murdered his own family who loved him which is an evil act. He probably killed other young uchiha cause I doubt sasuke was the only one and I doubt every one was in on the coup. So he can rot in hell in my book

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No one (not even itachi) is arguing what he did was right but it was what he had to do and so he did it.

and yeah Madara's perfect susanoo >>> everything else (except hashirama's crazy summoning)
Consisdering hashirama never faced the rinnegan Madara, it will be awesome to see them fight now.

[Gantz]

No one (not even itachi) is arguing what he did was right but it was what he had to do and so he did it.

I was just saying that cause the other guy was talking like sasuke was on the path of evil while itachi was on the path of the angels. Which in my opinion couldnt be farthest from the truth.

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[Fon]

I was just saying that cause the other guy was talking like sasuke was on the path of evil while itachi was on the path of the angels. Which in my opinion couldnt be farthest from the truth.

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depraved = corruption if you didn't know because it seems that you still don't quite understand.

I also don't remember saying that Itachi's path was angelic. All I did was describe the choices, Itachi was given during the Uchiha threat.

[Chille]

I was just saying that cause the other guy was talking like sasuke was on the path of evil while itachi was on the path of the angels. Which in my opinion couldnt be farthest from the truth.

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Itachi had a choice kill the clan, or have danzo have other people kill the clan, and i dont think danzo would of even spared sasuke if he had the choice, so the clan would of been wiped out either way, atleast by itachis hand theres less Konoha casaulties

[Fon]

Itachi had a choice kill the clan, or have danzo have other people kill the clan, and i dont think danzo would of even spared sasuke if he had the choice, so the clan would of been wiped out either way, atleast by itachis hand theres less Konoha casaulties

Exactly. Itachi loved his family and the village so the choices given to him were heavy. He could have join in the coup and die along with the entire clan. Who knows how many villagers and shinobi would lose their lives in the battle but it would of been enough to cripple the village, giving other nations the advantage for an invasion and ending the leaf.

A third choice would be running away with Sasuke but that would of marked his little brother as a criminal with the village in great peril after the coup which is not what he wanted.

Diplomatic discussions weren't going through and time was running out so again, the most logical choice he had was to cooperate and wipe out the clan, saving the lives of thousands and even the village itself; save Sasuke and become a rogue warrior who kept a close watch on the Akatsuki to further protect the village he loves. His intents for Sasuke was for him to become a leaf hero, not a criminal but things didn't turn out the way he wants to.


My original question however came from something the second Hokage said about the Uchiha going down a depraved path after acquiring the Mangekyou Sharingan

[itachi73378]

Yeah that was most interesting. I had always noticed how every time we see a character awaken sharingan its always from hate/despair/extreme trauma and now it all makes sense. The advanced stages of sharingan are basically representative of how much you have fallen into the 'dark' per se.

Another thing I was wondering lately was that we were told (in the kid series) that itachi obtained his mangekyou after killing his best friend Shisui...but now we know that is false, so did itachi awaken MS at the night of the uchiha slaughter due to the emotional trauma?

My new sig/avy suits this discussion quite well

[Chille]

Yeah that was most interesting. I had always noticed how every time we see a character awaken sharingan its always from hate/despair/extreme trauma and now it all makes sense. The advanced stages of sharingan are basically representative of how much you have fallen into the 'dark' per se.

Another thing I was wondering lately was that we were told (in the kid series) that itachi obtained his mangekyou after killing his best friend Shisui...but now we know that is false, so did itachi awaken MS at the night of the uchiha slaughter due to the emotional trauma?

My new sig/avy suits this discussion quite well

What if the effect of guilt not for killing but being unable to protect someone from being killed has the same effect, the guilt makes you blame yourself for there death

This would explain sasukes MS as he tecinally didnt kill Itachi because he died from his illness.

[itachi73378]

What if the effect of guilt not for killing but being unable to protect someone from being killed has the same effect, the guilt makes you blame yourself for there death

This would explain sasukes MS as he tecinally didnt kill Itachi because he died from his illness.

In sasuke's case it was despair/intense sorrow. I think the stone in the uchiha shrine says that uchihas have been killing their loved ones for decades to gain MS power

[Chille]

In sasuke's case it was despair/intense sorrow. I think the stone in the uchiha shrine says that uchihas have been killing their loved ones for decades to gain MS power

Yeah and not everyone gets it from what I can tell so there has to be another factor

[itachi73378]

Yeah and not everyone gets it from what I can tell so there has to be another factor

If you actually plot to kill a loved one just for power than you will not feel much emotional pain anyway so that is why they didn't get it.

[Chille]

If you actually plot to kill a loved one just for power than you will not feel much emotional pain anyway so that is why they didn't get it.

I know, its kind of werid we need to know more about the sharingan.

[Fon]

I do believe that, Itachi did obtain his Mangekyou Sharingan from killing his friend. He had it before the Uchiha slaughter (He was in an argument with his father and then dropped to his knees for forgiveness, after that he looked at, Sasuke and revealed his new eyes) - If memory serves right that is.

[darksora]

So the new chapter is out on mangapanda (waiting on mangastream's translations).


Surprised how fast things progressed. Kinda felt a little rushed from Izuna's death to EMS :P good chapter anyways

[mikeghtmare]

yeah, it was a really good chapter. I'm sure on the anime this will span 3 or more episodes which if done correctly it'll be awesome.
Has it ever been mentioned how Hashirama died? On another forum someone was guessing he will take his own life to bring peace with Madara and the Uchiha clan; maybe that's what will happen, and that's why the 2nd really hates the Uchiha. If this is the case then I'm guessing we'll see some flashbacks for the 2nd next.

[itachi73378]

Guys did you notice that izuna and madara's father didn't know madara's sharingan had already awakened? Last chapter when madra said he was really proud of his eyes and almost said that he had the sharingan. That means he awakened it earlier but kept it secret even from his family

I do believe that, Itachi did obtain his Mangekyou Sharingan from killing his friend. He had it before the Uchiha slaughter (He was in an argument with his father and then dropped to his knees for forgiveness, after that he looked at, Sasuke and revealed his new eyes) - If memory serves right that is.

Do we know which friend he killed? cuz it definitely isn't shisui. He apparently also killed his lover but that was during the night of the massacre.

[Fon]

Guys did you notice that izuna and madara's father didn't know madara's sharingan had already awakened? Last chapter when madra said he was really proud of his eyes and almost said that he had the sharingan. That means he awakened it earlier but kept it secret even from his family

Yeah that was rather strange. I don't see why he would keep it secret from his own clan.

Do we know which friend he killed? cuz it definitely isn't shisui. He apparently also killed his lover but that was during the night of the massacre.

I can't find the episode but I do remember the Uchiha investigating the murder of a fellow clan's man and they were suspecting, Itachi to have done it (Assuming that it was, Shisui since he was last seen with, Itachi).

[itachi73378]

I can't find the episode but I do remember the Uchiha investigating the murder of a fellow clan's man and they were suspecting, Itachi to have done it (Assuming that it was, Shisui since he was last seen with, Itachi).

Yeah those uchiha officials were there to ask about shisui. And we know that shisui left the village on his own accord. Even the wiki doesn't say 'how' itachi accquired the MS

[Chille]

Yeah that was rather strange. I don't see why he would keep it secret from his own clan.

I can't find the episode but I do remember the Uchiha investigating the murder of a fellow clan's man and they were suspecting, Itachi to have done it (Assuming that it was, Shisui since he was last seen with, Itachi).

Because he wasn't that war loving as a kid it seems and if clan knew he had sharingan he will probably been forced to fight more

[Oatmeal]

What if the effect of guilt not for killing but being unable to protect someone from being killed has the same effect, the guilt makes you blame yourself for there death This would explain sasukes MS as he tecinally didnt kill Itachi because he died from his illness.

Didn't Sasuke awaken his sharningan that way, protecting Naruto from Haku when they was in Haku's ice globe.

[itachi73378]

Didn't Sasuke awaken his sharningan that way, protecting Naruto from Haku when they was in Haku's ice globe.

Yeah, thats how most uchihas have been awakening theirs. Battles pushes shinobi to their limits.At that limit they see that there is no way they can win, the survival instinct with the feeling of loss and hopelessness is enough of an impact to awaken it.

When you are protecting a comrade, things are even more intense

[Oatmeal]

who turned 30 and still a narutard... "THIS GUY"

[itachi73378]

I've been reading some predictions on what will happen next with hashi and madra. What if hashi kills himself?
That would explain why tobirama hates the uchiha. It would also explain why he developed the edo tensei. Although someone said that rather than killing either tobirama or hashirama, they could revive izuna with edo tensei aswell

I think both sound crazy but they DO explain why tobirama developed edo tensei

[mikeghtmare]

new chapter is out; there isn't any action but it was interesting on details including how they came up with the term hokage and the name of the Leaf, plus the developments between Hashirama and Madara. The only thing I didn't like is they went to quick from joining in an alliance to Madara turning bad, but I guess there wasn't anything much interesting to put in between.

[itachi73378]

yeah, atleast now I hope we can end the flashback soon