Arsenal Thread

**three3-times** · 08-16-2012

Lets get one thing clear, you HAVE NOT GOT 24mil from us, we have paid you 15mil upfront and the rest is add ons etc.

i dont really get why you are hating on him tbh? he's nothing like nasri or ade

**DINAMO788** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by three3-times

Lets get one thing clear, you HAVE NOT GOT 24mil from us, we have paid you 15mil upfront and the rest is add ons etc.

i dont really get why you are hating on him tbh? he's nothing like nasri or ade

oh no? He's worse as he was supposedly fully committed to the club. not to mention how much the club stuck by him when he was injured all those times. Arsene made Robin into the player he is today. He wanted more money than we could offer. We brought in 3 top players to compete and with him he wouldve definitely been contenders.

**three3-times** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by DINAMO788

oh no? He's worse as he was supposedly fully committed to the club. not to mention how much the club stuck by him when he was injured all those times. Arsene made Robin into the player he is today. He wanted more money than we could offer. We brought in 3 top players to compete and with him he wouldve definitely been contenders.

So do you hate Cesc? He was fully committed and love arsenal, but left to win things...............#justsaying

**DINAMO788** · 08-16-2012

Cesc is a different case. Cesc still loves Arsenal. But Barcelona is his childhood club. He always dreamed of playing for them. Plus, Barca isnt a direct rival like ManUre are. It was an understandable thing with Cesc. he still loves Arsenal, but his heart was always with Barca.

RVP on the other hand repeated professed his love and loyalty to the club. Which was returned by the club, fans, and wenger. We were patient and loyal with him. Wenger essentially made him into the player that he is today. He has his first full injury free year and jumps ship. All that loyalty talk was bullshit. And to make it worse, he signed with a direct rival. Thats not how someone who loves their club acts. Thats how a Mercenary acts.

Buttom line though, if we could pay what United paid him, he would have stayed. He talks about ambition? We now arguably has a better midfield and defense (when healthy**) than united. So its about money.

**three3-times** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by DINAMO788

Cesc is a different case. Cesc still loves Arsenal. But Barcelona is his childhood club. He always dreamed of playing for them. Plus, Barca isnt a direct rival like ManUre are. It was an understandable thing with Cesc. he still loves Arsenal, but his heart was always with Barca.

RVP on the other hand repeated professed his love and loyalty to the club. Which was returned by the club, fans, and wenger. We were patient and loyal with him. Wenger essentially made him into the player that he is today. He has his first full injury free year and jumps ship. All that loyalty talk was bullshit. And to make it worse, he signed with a direct rival. Thats not how someone who loves their club acts. Thats how a Mercenary acts.

Buttom line though, if we could pay what United paid him, he would have stayed. He talks about ambition? We now arguably has a better midfield and defense (when healthy**) than united. So its about money.

ManUre? really? come on pal. You dont see me calling you lot ASSernal!

Fair point about Cesc.

You lot gotta be realistic, you havent one a thing in 7/8 years hence why so many players have left you guys.

Your not even a rival no more!! how can you be a rival to us!!!!

I do think RVP genuinely did and still does love you guys, if he had joined city then yes he is a cunt
But trophies and the chance to win things talks............

On paper, you don't really have a better team than us and with signings you made and jack to come back, you lot should be challenging for the title this year regardless. its not all doom and gloom.

You muggged us off for a 29 year old who has ONE great full season, you should be laughing

**DINAMO788** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by three3-times

ManUre? really? come on pal. You dont see me calling you lot ASSernal!

Fair point about Cesc.

You lot gotta be realistic, you havent one a thing in 7/8 years hence why so many players have left you guys.

Your not even a rival no more!! how can you be a rival to us!!!!

I do think RVP genuinely did and still does love you guys, if he had joined city then yes he is a cunt
But trophies and the chance to win things talks............

On paper, you don't really have a better team than us and with signings you made and jack to come back, you lot should be challenging for the title this year regardless. its not all doom and gloom.

You muggged us off for a 29 year old who has ONE great full season, you should be laughing

Well the ManUre talk and RVP hate is more of a visceral reaction for me at the moment. Also, I think i've been spending too much time in the comments section of soccernet and have the lingering influence of all the trolls on me. I've actually calmed down and am no longer so bitter. I still think selling him to you guys was a mistake and a dumb decision but so be it. I am also upset at that letter he wrote. I think that was the key flaw because after our signings, he was warming up to the idea of staying on at least for this year but Wenger basically said he is no longer in his plans. A lot of people commend Wenger for being a "badass" who doesnt take any shit, but I dont think I agree with that. No player is above the club, but RVP is still a very well liked and respected figure and I think if he was willing to consider staying, we should have let him. We wouldnt be in the CL without him last year. And who knows how far he would've helped us come this year. And I dont know, even though I hate city, had he joined the, he'd just be a dirty money grubber, but joining united hurts. And yeah, I guess our mids are comparable. Maybe we have more depth though (you have the depth on forwards). Also for fantasy purposes, is Valencia going to start over Nani? I take it they both play RW so im wondering about that.

And for me, it just hurts as much as it does because RVP was primed to be a legend and he just threw it all away for more money and to take a different chance. For the first time in a long time, us gunners were actually really excited and optimistic for the start of this year and then we get hit with this bombshell and its really deflating. But we'll rally back. we're used to it. and I cant wait until we play you. its just a real shame we need to wait until April until you visit Emirates.

**Cyn** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by three3-times

Lets get one thing clear, you HAVE NOT GOT 24mil from us, we have paid you 15mil upfront and the rest is add ons etc.

i dont really get why you are hating on him tbh? he's nothing like nasri or ade

£22m with £2m potential add-ons. Your club unsurprisingly say it's less. But it isn't.

Nothing like Nasri or Adebayor? What because he went to you instead? Joker

**three3-times** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by Cyn

£22m with £2m potential add-ons. Your club unsurprisingly say it's less. But it isn't.

Nothing like Nasri or Adebayor? What because he went to you instead? Joker

£15m with add ons. Your clubs unsurprisingly say its more, but it aint.

Nope, i didnt even want him. Those 2 were only at your club for a short while and never came across as arsenal "lovers". Pal.

**Cyn** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by three3-times

£15m with add ons. Your clubs unsurprisingly say its more, but it aint.

Nope, i didnt even want him. Those 2 were only at your club for a short while and never came across as arsenal "lovers". Pal.

Arsenal wouldn't gain anything from lying about the price. They aren't going to spend it anyway. In fact Arsenal would gain more by talking down the price, they would then get less flack from fans for not reinvesting it. It's £22m with add-ons, that is from independent sources as well as Arsenal ones. The only people saying it's 15+ add-ons are Man U sources.

You actually think Arsenal would have sold to you if you hadn't stumped up a lot of money? I said in your thread it would take £25m which very few people expected Ferguson would sanction. It didn't take quite that much, but nearly.

Sure Nasri and the rest weren't here as long as RVP was, so he is actually a far worse traitor than they are.

**three3-times** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by Cyn

Arsenal wouldn't gain anything from lying about the price. They aren't going to spend it anyway. In fact Arsenal would gain more by talking down the price, they would then get less flack from fans for not reinvesting it. It's £22m with add-ons, that is from independent sources as well as Arsenal ones. The only people saying it's 15+ add-ons are Man U sources.

You actually think Arsenal would have sold to you if you hadn't stumped up a lot of money? I said in your thread it would take £25m which very few people expected Ferguson would sanction. It didn't take quite that much, but nearly.

Sure Nasri and the rest weren't here as long as RVP was, so he is actually a far worse traitor than they are.

Well either way, you lot will be fine, santi, pod, giroud, WILSHIRE (love him) ramsey, arteta.....song????

U lot got a great deal.

**Cyn** · 08-16-2012

We won't be fine. Not unless that money is actually reinvested

There were big holes in the squad before selling anybody. Song will be gone in the next 48 hours. We only have 2 strikers when any self respecting team needs at least 3, preferably 4. The defence is still a shambles as well. If Man U sold two first team players, for about 5 years in a row, would you think you were fine?

Another year of mediocrity beckons. Top 4 probably, maybe 3rd again. Nothing more.

**DINAMO788** · 08-16-2012

Our first line up defense is fine, but our cover is weak. I still never like seeing Mertesacker and think he is a complete waste of a signing. I do think the midfield look good and I wont judge podo+giroud up top until i see them. But im hopefuly, esp about Podolski.

Btw Three3, I hear Robin is costing you $73m over his contact. you're paying $220k per week plus 15K for market purposes. Thats like city wages. I know United arent in the best financial position and cant afford it so....how the eff do you (or any other teams) afford these deals?

Also, not only are we now primed to sell song, we're not even frontrunners for Sahin anymore! Liverpool are. I think we really need him, esp if song leaves. Hes a good DM/holding mid and can also play LB which im sure we'll need cover on at some point in the season.

**Nitey** · 08-16-2012

Word is that Song's attitude has been dire since Barca players starting singing (get it?

) his praises and their interest in him has gained traction, and Wenger's fed up with it all.

I know you'd have preferred RvP to have stayed Dinamo, we all would have, but I'm telling you if there is one motherfucker left at this football club that is genuinely a fan (which is what all these mercenaries have said they are over the years), it's Wenger. For that sole reason I agree with him telling RvP to just leave

Cliche at best, but great things can be accomplished with the right attitude, togetherness and high morale within the squad. Look at what Dortmund and Montpellier have managed to accomplish in recent times without the millions of other teams. Our squad is not broken by any means - You can look at it negatively or positively or just realistically. Realistically we've lost a grand player, a world class captain/striker and in return we've got in 3 good to great players. Now, if we were to lose Song then I would definitely be worried - I rate him v/highly

--

I mentioned in a previous post about Wenger's spending patterns over this summer and last and it's clear as day that he's had it up to here with these youngsters coming and going and treating Arsenal (the club both HE and WE love) as a stepping stone to lucrative contracts. The youth project which began post invincibles/emirates era has been slowly fading away. These players like Van Persie, Fabregas, Nasri, Adebayour etc etc never believed in the project the way Arsene believed in it and now he's left heart-broken.

You can tell that now he's been purchasing players that can come in and do a job, players that he can trust - add that to the already talented youngsters that are here and they have genuine role-models to look up to, players that actually care about the club. (See: Kos/Verm signing long-term contracts during this Robin saga)

As dramatic as it sounds Wenger genuinely must feel heart-broken, he probably has been since last summer when it really sunk in that Fab and Nasri were going and RvP said that he'll wait until this summer before he'd talk about a contract. Writing was on the wall. There's now a fucking culture at the club where players now come, do the business, then go. Fuck that. THAT is what needs to change

Anyway, I'm glad we've gotten the majority of our deals sorted as early as we have

As Vermaelan said:

'We have to fight and I am confident we have a squad to win something.

'We start Saturday and this is all clear now, Robin is leaving and we have to move on.'

I think he's gonna be a great captain for us, and hopefully we do add within the next couple of weeks but even if we don't I think we'll be OK.

While we may not be able to compete with other clubs when it comes to the transfer market (until stadium debt has been lifted), we can sure as hell compete on the field of play where anything is possible. Go Gunners!

Can't wait for the weekend

**DINAMO788** · 08-16-2012

I really feel for Wenger too. I hope he's taking care of himself. It must take a big toll on him and I kinda worry for his health. I hope he has things that cheer him up.

But let me ask you, and im not playing sides, but how do you know these players never believed in Arsene's project? I feel like RVP definitely did. But belief in the project is just one part of it. The other part is the board, the overall ambition of the club. The goals and standards that a club sets. Even if he believes in the youth project, if he honestly felt that the club is not moving in the direction that he believes is right, then would it not be wrong to stay when you have such different opinions? Doesnt there need to be synergy and chemistry, not only between player and club but between club and player as well?

I dont know if loyalty means simply following whatever the club says. I mean, If you really care and you truly feel like the club is not operating in the best possible way and you see no sign of change, do you just take it on the knee and continue to support a system that you do not believe in? I still think he really wanted to stay. He scheduled meetings between the board and wenger and tried to make it work. But if you try and the board and club does not share the same expectations or ambitions as you, do you still consider the player disloyal when they feel they have no choice but to leave? It kind of feels like supporting a system to dont believe in (when there is no sign of potential change) and be considered loyal or doing what you think is right and be branded a traitor.

And of course the other BIG factor here is money. As i stated in my previous post, this deal is costing United 73M over the contract. I dont think they can afford that at all yet they still made the signing. FFP really needs to come into effect if there is any hope to restore parity and even club loyalty.

**Nitey** · 08-16-2012

The fact that a lot of their heads turn as soon as another big club comes sniffing around is enough indiciation that many of them viewed Arsenal as a stepping stone to bigger/better things, and obviously, more money. Adebayour comparing AC Milan to Beyonce comes to mind. Players running their contracts down to just leave on a free. Shit like this suggests to me that they aren't really interested in being here in the first place, and if they are it's only so they can push on elsewhere. We're such a heaven for young players because they know they can come here, get game time, be on some crazy wage for their age and have no pressure to perform - and when they do, then they can go elsewhere and earn even more crazy money when they become accomplished.

Obviously you can't know for certain whether they believed in the project or not, and out of all of them RvP is the one that I think wanted it to work more than the others. But like I mentioned there is a culture buried in the club now since 05 or whenever, that players can just go, and it's okay to do so. Because they are after bigger things? Yeah, the fact that players leave means we can never ever achieve those bigger things here because no one is giving it a fucking chance

This year we'd be lining up with a team that could walk a cup win and challenge for the title comfortably

------Song---Arteta/Wilshere
Nasri/Walcott---Fabregas/Cazorla---Podolski
--------RvP

If a little faith had been shown. Fabregas you can exclude if you like because we all know he was off to Barca sooner than later. But over the years, patience and respect is what a lot of the other players that went lacked. RvP had the most patience, of course. But we had patience with him too....

I take on board that he genuinely didn't agree with the way the board is going about business, but what else can be done? We live in the real world here and we have not got an owner thats going to inject money into us for like we're his little toy.

http://www.arsenalreport.com/transfercentre/

Since moving down the road we've had to finance our own transfers by selling. That will not change until stadium debt has been lifted. But what CAN be done is players trusting the manager (the way he trusts them), being content with the wages they are on (it's not as though we pay low wages for fuck sake, our wage bill is among the highest in the league). A player should not have the audacity to confront the mananger and his collegues so publicly about ambition - you just can't do that and expect to stay.

Add all that together and that's why RvP had to go

Loyalty is not being a robot, and no one asked him to be. He is just not in a position to judge the ambition of the board and the club, especially with the financial restrictions we are under with the stadium debt. I don't like the way business is being done sometimes too and in some cases we can probably afford to dip into our finances to purchase a marquee player, but as a club we're doing it the right way or the safe way. whichever way you wanna think of it. That isn't going to change but it doesn't mean we are not competitive on the pitch? I mean cmon, if Eduardo didn't break his leg that year we'd have won the league - and we've been in the running a few times in the post-emirates era but only to be denied by lack of squad depth and fall away at the foot of the season

In all honesty, it's a shock how competitive we've been with the financial restriction Wenger has pinned on him. If a little faith had been shown by numerous players we could have done, what seems like an impossible task now, and won some trophies.

A lot of the times it's the doing of agents that can turn a players head as well, that shouldn't be forgotten. These agents get huge fees for moving these players around

Anyway I think you may not agree with me when I say had players shown some loyalty we'd have been a lot better placed now while still being financially healthy, but it's one of the reasons why I'm happy with the way Wenger has done business so far. He's a very capable football manager as well let's not forget. He's not perfect by any means because some may be getting the feeling I'd drop to my knees for him

. I certainly don't agree with some of the formations and team selections he does as well as when he puts blind faith in players that don't give any return over a long amount of time

I think we can really judge player loyalty at the end of this season when Abou Diaby goes without injury for the entire campaign and is voted our player of the season. Watch him stay!

tl;dr - I know I write too much, I'm gonna give it a break now

**DINAMO788** · 08-16-2012

i dont mind reading something like this. I like Wenger too. I agree RVP cocked up by issuing that public statement. Btw, that website you showed is brilliant. I wish Arsenal didnt have such a poor injury luck so we could have a smaller squad of better/high paid players like barcelona does (not like chelsea or city).

We've had so many great players. I dont know how to keep us from being a feeder club to richer clubs. I think FFP is the only way to curb these departures.

--
--

Finally some good news (and dumb news):

Walcott is about to sign an extension: https://twitter.com/AFCAMDEN/status/236144155322093569

Jack has taken the #10 shirt #truecaptain: https://twitter.com/AFCAMDEN/status/236151123663265792

Frimpong continues to act like an idiot but most fans seem to like that (can't knock his passion though): https://twitter.com/frimpong26afc/st...53201798283264

**yourmumsface17** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by Cyn

Arsenal wouldn't gain anything from lying about the price. They aren't going to spend it anyway. In fact Arsenal would gain more by talking down the price, they would then get less flack from fans for not reinvesting it. It's £22m with add-ons, that is from independent sources as well as Arsenal ones. The only people saying it's 15+ add-ons are Man U sources.

You actually think Arsenal would have sold to you if you hadn't stumped up a lot of money? I said in your thread it would take £25m which very few people expected Ferguson would sanction. It didn't take quite that much, but nearly.

Sure Nasri and the rest weren't here as long as RVP was, so he is actually a far worse traitor than they are.

Who are these supposed "Man U" sources? I heard it in the Telegraph (if I remember correctly) are the people quoting 24 million "Arsenal sources"? I think Arsenal would rather quote it as higher so Arsenal fans think they got a decent deal, remember when Henry left for the same price as Darren Bent? That got a little backlash didn't it.

You guys seem to have a lot of "traitors" Nasri, Fabregas, Toure, RVP, Clichy, Viera, Henry. (More?) Maybe you guys should do some research into players characters before signing them? If you guys keep signing "traitors" that is.

Anyway as I have said before, don't mind Arsenal, am sorry we have to take a player from you to have a good player, wish we could both have one. Think it's a lil harsh just to label RVP a money grabber, you got to imagine that City would have offered the nicest kitty of cash, surely? But I understand maybe it's a natural defense mechanism.

**Tutankhamun** · 08-16-2012

No guts, no glory. That's all I'm saying about RVP.

**DINAMO788** · 08-16-2012

He's getting paid like 235k a week (including image rights). If we offered him that, im pretty sure he would have stayed. I still dont know how you guys can afford it (im pretty sure you cant)

**Tutankhamun** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by DINAMO788

He's getting paid like 235k a week (including image rights). If we offered him that, im pretty sure he would have stayed. I still dont know how you guys can afford it (im pretty sure you cant)

I'm pretty sure he's not getting that much. No way he's getting more than Rooney.

**yourmumsface17** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by Tutankhamun

I'm pretty sure he's not getting that much. No way he's getting more than Rooney.

I can't see him getting that much, from the way Fergie was talking a deal hasn't even been agreed yet (With RVP on the wage front, although I might have just made that up

), so I am pretty sure a lot of these numbers are just coming from no where.

**Tutankhamun** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by yourmumsface17

I can't see him getting that much, from the way Fergie was talking a deal hasn't even been agreed yet (With RVP on the wage front, although I might have just made that up

), so I am pretty sure a lot of these numbers are just coming from no where.

I'm sure they have agreed on a ball park figure long ago but the final details will be worked out when he signs. It'll all be revealed soon, I'm sure. He's most likely getting more than he made at Arsensl but I don't expect crazy figures.

**yourmumsface17** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by Tutankhamun

I'm sure they have agreed on a ball park figure long ago but the final details will be worked out when he signs. It'll all be revealed soon, I'm sure. He's most likely getting more than he made at Arsensl but I don't expect crazy figures.

Yeah he will obviously be on more, to be fair what wage is Rooney on (I know everyone quotes it as 250k, but no way is that the real figure) I am sure I read it is in the region of 150, I could see RVP on the same, and I think the reason we can afford the wages is because of all the people we have got rid of in the summer, Berba will be gone too (

) and that will free up a big chunk, as long as our wages remain under 50% of our turnover it should be ok... anyway that's United thread talk.. sorry.

**Nitey** · 08-16-2012

David Ornstein ‏@bbcsport_david

RvP fee £22.5m + £1.5m bonus if #mufc win PL or CL in next 4yrs. #Afc were willing to give him best-ever deal but never offered actually it.

This guy is rarely wrong.

Regarding his wage:

David Ornstein ‏@bbcsport_david

RvP move not motivated by money. On a far better deal at Arsenal than people knew & could have earned more elsewhere than he'll get at #mufc

David Ornstein ‏@bbcsport_david

Of Utd, City & Juve, RvP would only consider #mufc or stay at #afc. Arsenal felt left with no choice but to sell. Deal suits clubs & player.

So yeah, you got your man, he got his move, and we got our money. All parties fairly satisfied then!

**yourmumsface17** · 08-16-2012

Originally Posted by Nitey

This guy is rarely wrong.

Regarding his wage:

So yeah, you got your man, he got his move, and we got our money. All parties fairly satisfied then!

Wow, that's cool that he really wanted to come to us, and I think you are essentially right in the end, you have already replaced him anyway. (where does Carzorla play btw, I have heard nothing but good things about him)