Why the Wii can't play movies

[seebs]

PSP: Plays movies. Game sales are low.
PS3: Plays movies. Game sales are low.
Wii: Does not play movies. Game sales are high.

Movies and video games are both kinds of entertainment. They are competition for each other. Sony has some incentive to play movies, because Sony sells movies. Nintendo does not sell movies. Nintendo is only competing with movies. Thus, if you have a Wii, and you want to play with it, you buy games. Because that's what it does.

This is why game sales are higher on Wii and DS than on PS3 and PSP.

I had not understood this before.

[BoOGieM0nst3r]

well i don't think you can just reason that if poeple weren't able to play movies on psp or ps3 they could have higher game sales.


i mean the 360 can play movies and 360 has incredible game sales.

[MR_T]

ive personally never used my ps3 or psp to watch movies. if i buy a console its for the games not all the extra stuff thats bundled in. although im not gonna complain if it has the potential to do other things than play games. would be like turning down free beer

[bubano]

The main reason why I bought the ps3 was to get a cheap bd player. Even though the games are good the film possibilities are the main issues for me.

[Bubba T]

That's funny logic.

From what I gathered, it was a way to keep production costs down. Nintendo doesn't have to pay a royalty fee to play DVD's. I think one their other reasons (excuses) was that people already had at least one DVD player in the house, so why add another?

[audioboxer217]

That's funny logic.

From what I gathered, it was a way to keep production costs down. Nintendo doesn't have to pay a royalty fee to play DVD's. I think one their other reasons (excuses) was that people already had at least one DVD player in the house, so why add another?

This is the reasoning behind the DVD player being left out. In fact it's a pretty good paraphrase of what Iwata said when the lack of movie playback was first announced (I guess you could say announced...it was actually more like "discovered")

+rep for setting the record straight and putting an end to this fuzzy logic statement.

"IF [console] = movie player THEN game sales < good" is basically what he is stating and I find this to be inaccurate due to the XBOX360's numbers.

[Lethal]

And the PS2 did so well because...?

This is just a ridiculous statement.

[seebs]

This is the reasoning behind the DVD player being left out. In fact it's a pretty good paraphrase of what Iwata said when the lack of movie playback was first announced (I guess you could say announced...it was actually more like "discovered")

+rep for setting the record straight and putting an end to this fuzzy logic statement.

"IF [console] = movie player THEN game sales < good" is basically what he is stating and I find this to be inaccurate due to the XBOX360's numbers.

You do have a point about the 360. But consider: The 360 is advertised 100% in terms of games. The ads are all about games. Sony's put a huge amount of effort into attracting people who just want to play movies.

In the case of the 360, those people will get a much cheaper movie player. In the case of the PS3, though, it was (for a long time) the cheapest blu-ray player, and a while back it was announced that it was the only blu-ray player that would have full support for future blu-ray spec updates.

Similarly, the PSP doesn't have to worry about competing with portable DVD players so much, because it's much smaller than they are, and not much more expensive.

While it's true that keeping costs down is certainly a big part of the equation, I think Sony's game sales problems may well have to do with the millions of customers who didn't get the system with any intention of playing games for it, who don't look at or think about games, who don't check release schedules for upcoming games, and so on.

[valleyshrew]

Faulty inductive reasoning. The gamecube wasn't as popular as the ps2. The current factors are:
Price, advertising, market appeal, games.

I think taking the movie ability makes it cheaper, and this is part of the appeal of the wii, but it's not the main motivating factor.

[DrFeelgreat]

I posted something about the Wii in my blog, I think you should check it out.

LINK

[seebs]

Faulty inductive reasoning. The gamecube wasn't as popular as the ps2. The current factors are:
Price, advertising, market appeal, games.

I think taking the movie ability makes it cheaper, and this is part of the appeal of the wii, but it's not the main motivating factor.

The gamecube wasn't as popular as the PS2 -- and I never said it was. But it sold a LOT of games compared to its installed base.

My prediction isn't "movies -> fewer overall sales". It's "movies -> lower attach rate".

[Wingnut]

It could be argued that Sony are the only console manufacturer that actually want people to use their devices as movie players, they own a movie studio after all.

[GameSpawn]

Your logic is flawed. The PS2 plays movies and it is the pinnacle of unit sales. What else has reached 100 million, oh that's right the PS1 which was before DVD's time, but it played music CDs too. What is the point of using a format in your system if you aren't going to get the most out of it?

Here is the simple answer why the Wii doesn't play DVDs, yet has a DVD drive: NINTENDO IS TOO DAMN CHEAP TO PAY FOR THE DECODER LICENSING! Thye are with the Wii, just as they were with the GameCube. The GameCube was going to originally have DVD support, but Nintendo got cheap, cut it, and shrank the disc disc to the smaller 3 in. It is a known fact, Nintendo is cheap; that way they can maximize their hardware profits for the short run.

[AndyD]

I dont agree. Its faulty reasoning.

On 360, I have seen media (from HDDVD to downloadable movies and MP3) commercials, as well as game commercials. And look how well its doing.

And the PS2 also did great, and not only did they continue to advertise its DVD capabilities, they improved them in a later PS2 revision.

Sure some people bought the PS3 for its movie playing capabilities only, and those sales factor into the overall attachment rate, but for the average gamer, the attach rate is probably unaffected by the other capabilities of the machine. And one could even argue that the first group (the movie buffs) could eventually buy games that may be attractive to them, thus expanding the userbase of gamers, much like those who bought Wii for Wiisports alone may one day buy more than that.

[seebs]

Your logic is flawed. The PS2 plays movies and it is the pinnacle of unit sales.

Look, I agree that the argument has flaws, but what you say here is totally irrelevant.

I was not talking about unit sales. I was talking about attach rate.

Do you understand that these are different?

Here is the simple answer why the Wii doesn't play DVDs, yet has a DVD drive: NINTENDO IS TOO DAMN CHEAP TO PAY FOR THE DECODER LICENSING! Thye are with the Wii, just as they were with the GameCube. The GameCube was going to originally have DVD support, but Nintendo got cheap, cut it, and shrank the disc disc to the smaller 3 in. It is a known fact, Nintendo is cheap; that way they can maximize their hardware profits for the short run.

And, apparently, maximize profits in general.

Here's the thing. Ignoring any hypothetical competition: I prefer Nintendo's strategy. I don't WANT to pay for any more licenses for DVD player software.

Sure some people bought the PS3 for its movie playing capabilities only, and those sales factor into the overall attachment rate,

Quite noticably, even.

but for the average gamer, the attach rate is probably unaffected by the other capabilities of the machine.

For the pure gamer, sure. But what about all the people bragging about the hundreds of movies they've gotten? That's a couple thousand dollars they didn't spend on games, and a few hundred hours they didn't spend playing games.

And one could even argue that the first group (the movie buffs) could eventually buy games that may be attractive to them, thus expanding the userbase of gamers, much like those who bought Wii for Wiisports alone may one day buy more than that.

They might indeed eventually buy some games, but my guess is that overall, they reduce the attach rate of the system -- and thus make life a bit harder for game developers.

[Avrum]

Well, I don't exactly agree with all that. I do think that an emphasis on multimedia playback is what is hurting the PSP as many more are using it for uses other than gaming for the most part I would presume. As for the PS3 I don't think it's as severe, if anything it's more like when the PSP started off in that was a great idea to meld multimedia and gaming features simultaneously into an all in one device, but eventually favor in one direction or another may end up taking over and becoming the "reason" for owning the system.

[seebs]

Well, I don't exactly agree with all that. I do think that an emphasis on multimedia playback is what is hurting the PSP as many more are using it for uses other than gaming for the most part I would presume. As for the PS3 I don't think it's as severe, if anything it's more like when the PSP started off in that was a great idea to meld multimedia and gaming features simultaneously into an all in one device, but eventually favor in one direction or another may end up taking over and becoming the "reason" for owning the system.

I am still not entirely convinced that it's a great idea. I think it's one of those things that sounds great on paper, but which tends to end up making a system which isn't as good at either thing as it could be.

Sony has absolutely suffered from customer confusion about what the PS3 is, and I think that's at least partially because they've advertised it as everything from a movie player which happens to play "PS3 games" to a video game system which happens to play movies. There was a brief attempt at this a while back, under the brand name "nuon" or something, where there were a few DVD players which happened to be able to play these special games designed just for them... But no one cared, and people didn't end up buying the games, so it fizzled.

Now, I don't think the PS3's actually in danger of that, but a customer who's mostly interested in movies might assume it's the same sort of thing, given an ad in which the only reference to games is small print at the bottom of the page. (And yes, Sony produced one such ad.)

Everything I know about the PSP suggests that it has a fair number of games -- and yet, look at its attach rate compared to the DS. Obviously, SOMETHING is keeping people from buying games.

[AndyD]

For the pure gamer, sure. But what about all the people bragging about the hundreds of movies they've gotten? That's a couple thousand dollars they didn't spend on games, and a few hundred hours they didn't spend playing games.

But they would have spent it on DVD movies. The point is people who want to buy a movie, will buy it regardless of format. People's budgets for gaming are finite, just like their movie budgets, golf budgets, and every other hobby. I don't buy more than a game every month or so on average because I dont have the time to play that many.

And on Wednesday nights I would watch a movie regardless of whether it was theater, Bluray or DVD, instead of playing video games, whether my console played DVDs, Blurays or whatnot. Its just the way my schedule is and has been for years (potluck dinner and a movie with friends every wednesday for going on 6 years now).

For a gamer, he has a time budget for games, and whether he owns a console that plays movies or not, he will spend that time and money budget on games. Additional capabilites of the hardware are not a detriment, but a plus, as long as the price difference is not prohibitive. A video ipod does not make you listen to less music necessarily, it just lets you also watch videos if you feel like it.

They might indeed eventually buy some games, but my guess is that overall, they reduce the attach rate of the system -- and thus make life a bit harder for game developers.

I agree. But then developers who are smart look at the sales of other games, rather than a pure attachment rate number. Just like Wii developers look at the sales of third party games when compared to first party and see a gap which also gives them some pause. I give them credit that they are much smarter than fanboys on forums here and there.

[Avrum]

@ Seebs

Well, while I don't agree with everything you've noted, I didn't mean to imply that including multimedia playback is a good idea. I don't think it's a bad idea at least, but I don't think it should be given priority emphasis like we saw with the PSP early on and now the PS3. The PSP I feel suffered from that which is why it's in the position it's in now, among other things. It might be a bit earlier to say as much about the PS3, but you do have a point about the confusion aspect regarding the PS3. Who was it, Square Enix, I think that called out Sony to emphasize the PS3 as a gaming platform as they felt Sony was spending too much time trumpeting its Blu Ray media features.

[seebs]

But they would have spent it on DVD movies.

Maybe. Blu-ray's more expensive, and a fair amount of what people are doing is probably re-buying movies they had on DVD.

For a gamer, he has a time budget for games, and whether he owns a console that plays movies or not, he will spend that time and money budget on games.

I don't think this is generally true. I have a time budget for entertainment; movies and games are in direct competition for that time.

I agree. But then developers who are smart look at the sales of other games, rather than a pure attachment rate number. Just like Wii developers look at the sales of third party games when compared to first party and see a gap which also gives them some pause. I give them credit that they are much smarter than fanboys on forums here and there.

The real gap is between half-hearted shovelware and real games. I mean, sure, Wii Sports is out in the stratosphere, but if you look at other games, Nintendo's lead isn't so ridiculous -- and they've got a similar lead compared to other companies' sales on other systems, too. They're just very good at making games which sell.

Third party game sales (excluding shovelware) on Wii are better, in general, than third-party game sales on PS3. Given the much lower development costs, that's excellent, and developers are responding as you'd expect -- by developing more games for Wii.

Yeah, there's always gonna be short-sighted attempts to cash in on the mythical "casual" player who will play anything you throw at him. Those generally fail. The games that are actually fun to play are selling some copies. Not always as many as they deserve, but then, that's true on every platform. Sure, Zack & Wiki did poorly compared to its quality... But then, it was essentially unadvertised, and the box art makes it look like a spinoff of a kid's TV show you've never seen. Okami, which was absolutely brilliant, did so poorly on PS2 that Capcom split up the studio.

[Emo-Mercenary]

What the f*** is this about? Its flabbergasting me!

[seebs]

It's about the philosophy which different vendors have brought to gaming.

Nintendo is trying to build a games console, which is a device which plays games, which plays games, and which also plays games. They have focused on making it easy to get into, offering a few games that are designed for mass appeal to people who have not historically been gamers, and then a series of more involved games that may help draw these users into playing more "advanced" games. That has been mistaken by many people for a focus on "dumbed-down" games, leading to a bunch of shovelware crap and minigame collections from companies that don't see what Nintendo's doing.

Sony's trying to produce the most powerful, awesomest, machine ever for people who are already extremely experienced with games.

The net result is that the PS3 has a huge number of fans who take it as a point of pride that "non-gamers" can't touch their console -- and who are absolutely flabbergasted by the "non-gamer" console selling so well. They think it's a fad because they wouldn't want to play these games... Which is silly. The niche market is always small.

[EbonySeraphim]

I think it's a little bit more complex than that. PSP is completely crackable from software entirely. Slims are harder to crack but still easy enough if you know someone that has a fat PSP and some spare time. Once cracked, playing any PSP game from any region is as simple as downloading the ISO, transferring it to your memory stick, and playing it. In fact, this option in some cases is better than the UMD since the game loads faster from memory stick, and I think it would even improve battery life as no UMD disc needs to be spun. In the case of FFVII:Crisis Core, there is even an undub version which is basically the Japanese game with the English subtitles imported.

The DS is cracked to the same degree with a particular hack cartridge as well but that is an extra charge. Beyond that, the reason why I think it hasn't affected the DS nearly as much is the demographic of those playing it. They are far less tech savvy and willing/able to figure out how to illegally obtain games. Of course, some PSP owners are probably like that, but not nearly as many.

With the PS3, I haven't seen any real evidence that PS3 game sales are relatively and notably weak and there isn't any good evidence to support that idea either. The other two consoles have larger install bases, and have had almost all of their older triple A titles release with a full sequel since launch already. PS3 is about to get its first with Metal Gear Solid 4(I would call Ratchet and Clank a game of triple A quality, but it definitely isn't there in terms of popularity. GT5 Prologue is obviously not a full.

Winding back to the topic at hand -
Nintendo simply doesn't care to offer the best product to the customer. It sounds like trash talk, but unless I assume Nintendo's decisions for including features are stemming from idiots, it's clear that they aren't interested in trying to bring the most to the consumer as possible. Anyone who understands technology at a core level knows the consoles can do pretty much everything a PC can do. The only issue is what can be installed and run on the machine, and what the console reads content from. That was obvious to me even as a kid when seeing a Sega Genesis. At best, I can see the argument being made that a great many Wii owners don't care about playing movies at all. So if Nintendo offered the feature, it would be very much unused and not worth their investment.

[Soldier 95B]

I think Nintendo had a goal of reducing the entry price of their console as much as possible. They assumed that the majority of house holds have a DVD player (or many more than just one dvd player), so they chose to reduce costs by eliminating DVD royalty fees. They also eliminated some software development costs for the Wii by not having to create a GUI or infrastructure for the DVD menu.

Now the question is, did the elimination of the DVD royalties actually benefit the consumer in a reduced cost, or did the cost of the Wii remain the same, but putting more money into Nintendo's pocket.

The thing that really suprised me is that my Wii can't even play music CD's

[aceofspades21]

Nintendo isn't into gimmicks such as music and movies, they just want there to be a plethora of games for all to enjoy that won't distract from a true gaming experience.

I personally think it's the right approach. If you want both gaming and movies/music, then PS3 by all means. But if you want a strictly gaming machine, Wii works just fine.

Not putting down PS3, just saying that Wii was made for gaming and it does just that.