Official PlayStation 4 Thread (CLOSED: See PS4 section)

[LeisureSuitLarry]

Article talks about every aspect of the PS4, but I'm really focusing on the Cell in this thread.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming...to-know-464657

PlayStation 4 - everything you need to know

How the PS4 is shaping up to be the next must-own console

If Microsoft is secretly readying a new Xbox to succeed the Xbox 360, then surely Sony must be working on a PlayStation 4?
Speculation is rife that the next console battle will be fought around 2011-2012. This is when Crytek's CEO Cevat Yerli and industry analyst Colin Sebastian believe that a potential Xbox 720 and PS4 could appear.
Recycling PS3 for PS4
To imagine what a PS4 might be capable of we should look at what the current PS3 doesn't have or doesn't do well. For starters, Sony will need to closely integrate the hardware and software development for its next console.
According to SCEA's CEO Jack Tretton: "The hardware guys developed the [PlayStation 3] fairly independently, then dumped it onto the software guy's lap, effectively saying 'do something with it.'"
Considering that Sony spent around $3 billion developing the PS3, it seems likely that it will use an improved version of the Cell processor for a PS4. IBM has already released an improved version of the Cell for its blade servers. The PowerXCell 8i is a 65nm chip, with support for 32GB of DDR2 memory and eight fully-functional SPEs (compared to seven on the PS3).
The advantage of recycling the Cell is that Sony could retain a familiar development environment and use existing code libraries. The modular design of the Cell architecture could also allow extra Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs) to be added to future chips. Twenty or more SPEs might be possible on a single 32nm Cell processor.
And if increasing the on-chip SPEs isn't an option in the proposed 2011-2012 time frame, then a PS4 could incorporate multiple Cell chips. IBM's Cell roadmap includes a PowerXCell 32iv, which appears to feature four PPEs (Power Processor Elements) and 32 SPEs, ie four Cell chips running in parallel.
Inside the PlayStation 4
If the PS4 is a revamp of the PS3, we're likely to see some obvious technology upgrades – 802.11n to replace the existing 802.11b/g chipset; an external power supply (to reduce the size of the box and to improve cooling); a massive hard disk; new graphics processor and an increase in the onboard memory.
The memory architecture in the PS3 splits 512MB equally between graphics and application use and it's been suggested that this limits developer freedom. You'd expect the PS4 to address this issue, giving developers more dedicated memory in which to load game levels. Although it's worth pointing out that the PS3 (and any future Cell-based consoles) can use the SPEs for maths-intensive tasks like physics.
New graphics processor
What about a replacement for the PS3's NVIDIA-built RSX graphics processor? We've already speculated that Microsoft could use Intel's general purpose Larrabee chip in its next Xbox to handle real-time physics and AI. Rumours also suggest that Intel is pimping Larrabee to Sony for the PS4.
Like any Xbox 360 replacement, the PS4 is also going to have a much bigger hard disk. This will be in readiness for a wealth of downloadable content that will include games, demos, music, movies and TV shows. A terabyte HDD isn't out of the question. And in a world that will increasingly be looking to online services for content, does any PlayStation 4 still need a Blu-ray drive?
A PS4 without Blu-ray?
While the PS3 was instrumental in helping Blu-ray beat off HD DVD, there's a strong argument for dropping an optical drive from the PS4 altogether. Console owners are already downloading gigabytes-worth of game demos, video trailers, full-length movies and TV shows. With a giant hard disk in the PS4, games could simply be piped straight to the console on release day; long install/level load times would be eliminated.
Along with the Cell processor, the Blu-ray drive is one of the PS3's most expensive components. The PS3's high price has forced it into third place behind the Nintendo Wii and Xbox 360. Sony will be keen not to price itself out of the next console battle.
As Acclaim boss Dave Perry recently claimed: "Because of the cost of making the PlayStation 3 and because they sold it at a loss, Sony basically has pretty much no chance of making money on the PS3, because it's lost more money than they made during the entire peak of the PlayStation 2 – it's not going to happen again for Sony."
Sony can't simply slash its prices like Microsoft has recently. And Blu-ray is partly to blame. Billy Pidgeon, an analyst at market researcher IDC points out: "Blu-ray licensees would be threatened by pricing the PS3 below stand-alone Blu-ray players. The PS3 is a bit challenged on that side."
Chasing the dream of a digital hub
Do consumers really want a PlayStation 4 that does everything? Sony's next console needs to be a machine that plays the best games. Just like the PS2 did. The PS4 could go one of two ways – a premium all-in-one box that offers Blu-ray, integrated playTV and a much larger hard disk; or a pure games machine, stripped of its expensive technology in favour of mass market appeal?
Whatever the PS4 looks like, the final question to be asked is: when will it launch? Sony's Kaz Hirai has already given us a hint: "If you look at the history of the way we've managed our console business," he said, "we always try to hit a 10-year life cycle "
That might put any PS4 launch back to 2016. But when you consider that the PS2 is still chugging along in the shadow of the PS3, a PS4 could easily sit alongside and overlap the existence of the PS3.

Programming the Cell, from what I understand, isn't necessarily that difficult. Programming for multiple cores is what is hard and since the Cell leans heavily on its 7 SPEs.....well, do the math. But next gen, assuming Sony goes with the next iteration of the Cell, PS4 developers will be very familiar with cell development. Obviously, Sony has sunk a ton of cash into Cell development, but I don't think for a minute that they did so with THIS GEN in mind. They have called the Cell "future proof" for a reason. The Cell will be the basis of the Playstation architecture for a long long time.


This begs the question: will other console devs have to face these same difficulties in future gens? For example, what will Microsoft do with the Xbox in the next generation. Although the Xenon is a multiple core processor (2 usable cores), parallel programming (programming for multiple processors/cores) doesn't seem to be nearly as much of a requirement as it is for the Cell, which helps make the 360 easier to program for. Can Microsoft lean on the Xenon architecture next gen? Or will Microsoft have to move to a more complicated chip and thus face the same difficulties next gen that Sony devs have plowed this gen?



I've made lots of assumptions here to encourage discussion. Feel free to call on any if inaccurate.

[IONIXX]

omg its all so exiting!!!!!, u know wat i think? wellwouldnt surprise me atleast, i think that MS will probably luanch the 720 maybe a while befor sony release ps4, and thats ok, u know why? because 1, SONY hopefully have learned wat rushing a console jus to keep up with competitors can do, ( or simply not being on time ) 2, ps3's full power hasant even been close to fully harnessed yet, so i tink that we might see the ps3 battling a console thats one generation AHEAD of it,

[LeisureSuitLarry]

omg its all so exiting!!!!!, u know wat i think? wellwouldnt surprise me atleast, i think that MS will probably luanch the 720 maybe a while befor sony release ps4, and thats ok, u know why? because 1, SONY hopefully have learned wat rushing a console jus to keep up with competitors can do, ( or simply not being on time ) 2, ps3's full power hasant even been close to fully harnessed yet, so i tink that we might see the ps3 battling a console thats one generation AHEAD of it,

Very possible. I wonder, though, if Sony's long-sightedness isn't gelling with the short-sightedness of some developers. Devs, right now, are more interested in the quick and easy and so many veer to the 360. Most notably, the JPRG devs just don't seem as interested in the PS3's more complicated, but huge upside potential architecture. Like I said, I also wonder if those same devs are going to feel the crunch of a steep learning curve next gen.

[jamesclark1991]

this is all nonsense rumour and heavy speculation that leads to nowhere
better graphics are accomplished with a better graphics card! NOT a better processor!

[that1guy]

i dont think they should do away with an optical drive, i personally like the feeling of holding a game in my hand. also the pact that i can play the game on friends/family consoles w/o having to d/l the game again. im for downloadable content, if they put it as a d/l and on disc that would be much better to me. i think 2011/12 could be possible but i dont think sony wants to bring it out that fast b/c they want to make some money off the ps3 for a little while before having to deal with another console. also, an upgraded cell seems like the likely way to go. get it upgraded and add more memory to the console and i think sony is going to be looking pretty good.

[LeisureSuitLarry]

this is all nonsense rumour and heavy speculation that leads to nowhere
better graphics are accomplished with a better graphics card! NOT a better processor!

Math, physics, AI, etc. There are many other aspects of a video game than just graphics. And someone can correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that the cell would be very useful by the GPU for matrix multiplication, transformations, etc. Regardless, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the CPU's role in gaming.

[Byuu]

Agreed, optical drives are still a good thing and besides if they want to keep B/C with PS3-Ps1 they'll need one, but yeah, i'm glad i was born in this age of gaming

[tamud]

I'm already conceded that ps4 is third place but will survive but i hope they will bring back the old magic of ps1 or ps2 which is more focus on getting games than technology. You know guys honestly by the time ps4 is unveiled they will have a hard time getting exclusives because i believe capcom, konami and namco or even square have already stop the policy of making exclusives. So when ps4 comes out i think Sony should have already established good first party titles especially RPG not damn FPS or singstar. Go back to their old roots that made them succesfull .

[LeisureSuitLarry]

Agreed, optical drives are still a good thing and besides if they want to keep B/C with PS3-Ps1 they'll need one, but yeah, i'm glad i was born in this age of gaming

Yeah, I kinda scratched my head at the mention of removing the blu-ray. Does anyone actually believe all next gen games will be downloaded rather than obtained thru media? Hard to imagine downloading a 50gb game. Hard drives will have to be huge.

[willisc89]

this is all nonsense rumour and heavy speculation that leads to nowhere
better graphics are accomplished with a better graphics card! NOT a better processor!

My my my someone needs to brush up on their computer knowledge. A video card just takes the work off what the processor would have to do with graphics and stuff, the processor (especially the cell) and perfectly competent of doing all the work without the graphics card. The only reason video cards are used is because when you have graphics and ai and sound and everything else it really starts to add up the work that the processor has to do so its split up between all the different parts, but with a good enough processor it could do all the work itself.

[Josh93]

I was starting to believe it untill they started going on about the no optical drive. That would only work in America and Japan where super duper fast internet and high usage allowances were. It wouldn't work due to the fact that half the world is on dial-up still.

[shadow26]

I bet techradar hasn't gotten this many hits for a single article in a looong time.
Just mentioning ps4 is like, a beacon to videogamers.

[dot-notdot]

He talks nonsense in parts... I don't want a power adapter outside of the ps4 I like the fact my power is all done inside one box the ps3

And to remove bluray is just stupid... I wont convert into just digital downloads the industry can push it as hard as they like I still prefer my disk! They'd only swing it for me if they made disks that install the game onto the hdd then and only then would I be willing to play a game off the hdd

As for the rest it's kinda generic it'll get more powerful and all makes good sense, hopefully Sony will keep pushing their cell technology (Y)

Comment open to be hated by other people if you wish

[rblover69]

personally theres so much potential with the current cell in the ps3 that , its really premature to even contemplate the ps4. The ps3 right now isnt even on a dev kit that fully taps the current cell. lol

I think games like heavy rain etc are truley going to show what the systems is capable of doing.

[ic1male]

Sony would be seriously stupid if they ditch the Cell. As has been reported, they've spent the entire profits from the PS2 on developing the PS3 and given developers migraines with the programming architecture. It would make sense to improve the Cell as it is or put 2 of them in the next PS4 and focus on developing the software. That is how Microsoft has done so well - they are a software company and it's software that rules the world.

[rblover69]

nah there , fully involved in the cell devleopment . I doubt anything less then that would be pure rumour with no basis. There to heavily invested in it. And frankly theres no reason to leave it. Cell techonology is far more expnadable then anything out there currently besides nano chip technology.

[gta0004]

1000% speculation. Its just two years into the lifecycle and already this much speculation?

[SDiablo123]

I think IONIXX is right, Sony hasnt really figured out how to use the PS3 to its FULLEST Capabilities yet. And for that they MUST take their time, And get the PS4 REALLY pumping and the best system EVER!

[Seahawkk]

this is a long time away though i give it maybe 6 or 7 years minimum

[efs5030]

This interesting but all speculation until something along the lines of confirmation from sony or sega is making a new console called the dreamcast revolution or something like that I won't be too shocked....

[MrG]

Can Microsoft lean on the Xenon architecture next gen? Or will Microsoft have to move to a more complicated chip and thus face the same difficulties next gen that Sony devs have plowed this gen?

If you consider the PS3 a 'trial run' for the cell, a practice session for the developers, then we ought to see some huge leaps forward in quality in the next generation. Maybe if that happens then Microsoft will try something similar (ie. more complicated) in the gen after next, but I think they're too stubborn to do it for the 360s predecessor.

[AndyD]

If you consider the PS3 a 'trial run' for the cell, a practice session for the developers, then we ought to see some huge leaps forward in quality in the next generation.

This. The PS3 was a way to get devs used to the cell, and get it on the market. Now that it is a relatively widespread chip (both in PS3s, servers, some TVs even...) and its cost has likely fallen a ton since it was made, we can pretty safely predict that the PS4 will likely have a Cell type CPU. The main question is whether the GPU will also be Cell based as the PS3 was supposed to be originally.
The devs are used to it, IBM is used to making it and its capabilities have been largely proven as a powwerful computational device. If they just put a better GPU and sufficient RAM, they have an easy machine to put together.

[tamud]

honestly i really dont like topics about ps4 this early its like we are already giving up on ps3 even if it stil has potential. On all my years of following PS brand this is the first time i experince since ps1 or ps2 era to hear news at once about next gen in a very early stage. Please lets stop ps4 topic.

[webshark]

god i hate how everyone automatically assumes that it either has to be optical or DD, with no other possibilities even given a chance.

a solid-state or flash media like an SD card for games would be such a gigantic step up from optical, but no one even considers it......

[no1kevlin]

this is a long time away though i give it maybe 6 or 7 years minimum

There is no way Sony will wait until 2015 to launch the PS4, especially considering that the next Xbox will more than likely be on shop shelves for autumn 2010.