Xbox 360 taken apart.. the real specs!(Translated)

**Makaveli_786** · 05-15-2005

At first sight the technical specifications of the Xbox 360 look spectacular. Heart of the console is a 64-Bit-PowerPC-CPU with three cores, which work with 3,2 GHz. These are to be able to implement 9 billion DOT Product operation per second, thus an operation per AltiVec unit and clock. A DOT Product operation consists usually of five floating decimal point operations (three multiplications and two additions), from which an arithmetic performance of 45 GFLOP/s results. If one compares these with a Pentium 4, that with 3,8 GHz on 15,2 GFLOP/s comes or a PowerPC970, which nevertheless masters 21.1 GFLOP/s with 2,7 GHz, the Xbox 360 works rapidly fast. In the Playstation 3 blocked CELL processor however eight parallel arithmetic and logic units (SPE) and with 4 GHz clock rate uses theoretically stately 256 GFLOP/s would reach. Even if the Playstation 3 clocked the arithmetic and logic units of its Cell processor only with 2 GHz, she would be still theoretically three times as fast as the Xbox 360.

If one wanted to arrange the Xbox 360 in the list of the fastest computers, one may not set thus the theoretical peak value of 1 TFLOP/s, proclaimed by Microsoft, since she reaches these only if one would use unfair way the theoretical arithmetic performance of the GPU to include and these their 48 parallel Shader pipelines optimally. Besides Microsoft apparent proceeds at the value of 1 TFLOP/s from single Precision operations; for the Top-500-Liste the double Precision achievement is however always measured.

Crucially for the detail wealth of the coming Xbox-360-Spiele the achievement of the GPU might be however relevant. Here Microsoft places the gigantic transfer rate of 256 GByte/s of the 10 MByte embedded to DRAM in the GPU into the foreground. This memory serves however as Framebuffer and must hold the pictures ready for the display output. Opposite the Ur-Xbox wants the Xbox 360 clearly higher resolutions to master. 1080i correspond 1920 × to 1080 pixels, which stress about 8 MByte storage location with 32 bits depth of shade. In this dissolution it will be thus not possible the Xbox 360, by quadruple Multisampling a anti- Aliasing will in addition-get, in addition the Framebuffer would have to be with the present state of the art at least 32 MByte large. Even with 720p (1280 × 720) pixels it becomes closely, since a picture here 3.5 MByte stressed and the bit map memory for 4fach-Anti-Aliasing would have to be large 14 MByte. Effectively the console can use their quadruple anti- Aliasing thus only during the dissolution of NT sports club 480p (720 × 480 pixels).

Crucially for the performance thus rather the transfer rate from 22,4 GByte/s is to the GDDR3-Speicher, and this lies only in the centre zone of current diagram maps. With the pixel filling rate Microsoft speaks of 16 Millarden Samples per second with 4fachem anti- Aliasing. However always 4 Samples for a pixel are used, the pixel filling rate amount to therefore thus only 4 Gigapixel/s. In the comparison ATI however always indicates the filling rate for its GPUs in pixels. With their Polygonfuellrate of 500 million triangles per second the Xbox-360-GPU performance-related would for instance be on the level of a Radeon X700 pro, which comes on 3,4 GPixel/s and 637.5 million Polygone/s. Such middle class GPU would be easily underpowered for a dissolution of 1920 × 1080 pixels themselves without anti- Aliasing. One may be waiting thus whether actually all Xbox-360-Spiele runs in 1080i liquid, as it promises Microsoft at present.

The largest weak point of the Xbox 360 is however that it cannot play Blu ray Disc or hp DVD, but only a 12X-DVD-ROM-Laufwerk possesses. It is technically possible to pack an two-hour hp film by means of Wmv hp on a Dvd-9; Hollywood published and reserves themselves for this so far however only some testfilme the large hp business for the DVD successors.

If one considers all this, the Xbox 360 between the chairs sits: For PAL televisions it has more than sufficient force reserves, when which higher resolutions necessary for HDTV you could go out however the Puste -- which one may forgive it with the favourable price of 300 US dollar however also easily. So some prospective customer could consider itself however whether he was not to wait for the Playstation 3, which probably only 2006 comes on the market, keeps for it however more line reserves ready and is to bring along a Blu ray drive assembly for hp videos.

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

Most of the stuff this guy posted I've been saying all along, while the XBox 360 is powerful it isn't some PC killer or some overly powerful console it's just very intelligently being marketed as one, at this pace I'd say games like gears of war would push Xbox 360 100% and thats the best you'll see on the Xbox 360.

StrifeSnake13* · 05-15-2005

wow,

At first sight the technical specifications of the Xbox 360 look spectacular. Heart of the console is a 64-Bit-PowerPC-CPU with three cores, which work with 3,2 GHz. These are to be able to implement 9 billion DOT Product operation per second, thus an operation per AltiVec unit and clock. A DOT Product operation consists usually of five floating decimal point operations (three multiplications and two additions), from which an arithmetic performance of 45 GFLOP/s results. If one compares these with a Pentium 4, that with 3,8 GHz on 15,2 GFLOP/s comes or a PowerPC970, which nevertheless masters 21.1 GFLOP/s with 2,7 GHz, the Xbox 360 works rapidly fast. In the Playstation 3 blocked CELL processor however eight parallel arithmetic and logic units (SPE) and with 4 GHz clock rate uses theoretically stately 256 GFLOP/s would reach. Even if the Playstation 3 clocked the arithmetic and logic units of its Cell processor only with 2 GHz, she would be still theoretically three times as fast as the Xbox 360.

So basically what they are saying is that the cell prototype CPU is about 6x as fast as the 360 cpu.

**Makaveli_786** · 05-15-2005

That was the 256 gigaflop prototype he's talking about its been updated to about 384 gigaflops now so 9x according to his calculations, I'm starting to think maybe there will be a HUGE difference between the next-gen consoles, I can remember hearing some dev say "the PS3 CPU runs circles around the Xbox 2", can anybody get that quote for me?

**The_One** · 05-15-2005

1080i correspond 1920 × to 1080 pixels, which stress about 8 MByte storage location with 32 bits depth of shade. In this dissolution it will be thus not possible the Xbox 360, by quadruple Multisampling a anti- Aliasing will in addition-get, in addition the Framebuffer would have to be with the present state of the art at least 32 MByte large. Even with 720p (1280 × 720) pixels it becomes closely, since a picture here 3.5 MByte stressed and the bit map memory for 4fach-Anti-Aliasing would have to be large 14 MByte. Effectively the console can use their quadruple anti- Aliasing thus only during the dissolution of NT sports club 480p (720 × 480 pixels).

Exactly what I was saying all along... The 10MB of eDRAM is gonna be the bottleneck when the devs want to produce 1080i resolution.

for the Top-500-Liste the double Precision achievement is however always measured.

What's the double precision rating for the Xbox 360's tri-core CPU anyways? I remember that the CELL's was 26 or 27GFLOp/s.

**Damnit** · 05-15-2005

In the comparison ATI however always indicates the filling rate for its GPUs in pixels. With their Polygonfuellrate of 500 million triangles per second the Xbox-360-GPU performance-related would for instance be on the level of a Radeon X700 pro, which comes on 3,4 GPixel/s and 637.5 million Polygone/s.

That is a very bold claim. Who is this guy? Looked like some German Tomshardware reviews type website to me. He doesn't say whether he had an actual Xbox360 hardware in possession or not so I'm still skeptical over some of his claims. Underestimating microsoft so much as to claim its using X700pro level GPU will be a huge mistake. And most probably only generate hate from fanboys who're gonna rile up a lot coz of this. I'd say I wanna wait for another good source mak, this just sounds BS to me as some german guy trying to hit fame for free while its available you know. How can a R520 hybrid work on the level of X700? Makes no sense at all and especially after reading the 1up column of developer roundtable even more so a reason to call this a germans 10secs of fame. At next page his heading says Nintendo's console the size of Mac Mini. Now thats just too much. Don't read into it. Not worth it.

**Makaveli_786** · 05-15-2005

He's actually right, the X700 pro gives off inflated figures as all GPU's do, he's taking those inflated figures and giving PROPER figures of the R520 and comparing them, it would be more of a fair comparison if he took real figures of the X700 and posted them but even then you wouldn't find a huge difference.

EDIT: Mac Mini is about the same size as the Nintendo Revolution, Revolution = 3 stacked DVD cases.. thats about as big as a Mac Mini, Mac mini is about the same height but like a cube not long.

StrifeSnake13* · 05-15-2005

1up.com says the Xbox 360 CPU will run at 115.2 GFLOP/s

http://1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3140209

**Makaveli_786** · 05-15-2005

The cell prototype was 256 gigaflops about 2.5x as powerful, the new cell is 384 gigaflops about 3.5x the power

**PS Gamer** · 05-15-2005

Actully Gears of War, if I remember correctly, Siren said it ran about 50% of the 360s GPU.

Now also take into consideration, that Sony is considering about putting 2 cell chips in its system, making it possible to reach up to 600-700 Gflops/s.

**Makaveli_786** · 05-15-2005

Siren never came up with a source for what he said then somebody posted an article where Peter J Allard himself said that said Gears of Wars ran at 80%, on the other hand IGN said when they saw the demo of Gears of War they said the framerate was flimsy so I'm guessing if they get the framerate right going off what J Allard told everybody is would require probably 100% of the Xbox 360's power.

Putting in 2 cell's would take up a lot of space, wouldn't be much point either at 200 gigaflops the PS3 would blow Xbox 360 out of the water, at 600-700 gigaflops it would be hard using all that power, it's too big a leap I think.

**PS Gamer** · 05-15-2005

Im just saying...its very possible.

Just think if you had two cell chips in the ps3...you could get like get 10 G70's running on it and still have enough power to do other operations. It would be like the ultimate dream machine.

**Makaveli_786** · 05-15-2005

It would definetly be a dream, I'm not saying it's impossible it is possible if Sony want to do it though, if they really want to blow us away next-gen multiple cell's is a good possibility but I think it depends on the Revolution now, the Broadway is supposed to be a very powerful customzied processor, the 360's CPU doesn't put a scratch on the cell they can easily put one in and blow the Xbox 360 away but if the broadway is powerful they probably will put two in.

It's a possibility, probably 50/50 in fact and if they do it then we're in for an interesting next-gen

**PS Gamer** · 05-15-2005

From what I heard about the broadway, its only been in developement for the past 2 years...the Cell has been in developement the past 4 years. I think Sony has the uperhand with time under the hood. I still think there gonna push the Broadway, since its only been in dev. for 2 years.

Also, who would name a processor a "broadway"

Though the Broadway will be a very good CPU, I think the Cell will cream it by 2 fold.

Hell, lets just go into fantasy land for a moment...

Sony puts 8 cell chips into the PS3 (although the PS3 would catch on fire) it would run at oh...about...3 Tflops/s.....

Now MS puts 8 custom CPUs under its hood, (It would also start on fire :P ) it would run at oh...about... 800gflops-1tflop/s

**Makaveli_786** · 05-15-2005

Agreed, again it comes down to what Sony want to do, they have no performance problem, they can easily stick a single cell in and blow away the competition but if they feel the need to absolutely blow the competition to smithereens they probably will go with 2 cells, that is so much power I just don't want to get my heart set on it considering it's a possiblity it won't happen.

**Damnit** · 05-15-2005

Birds of a feather flock together :P

You guys are really nailing it hard man. Seriously PS3 single cell is that powerful, really!

Wow! The more I hear from you guys the more expectations I have that MGS4 will be like what, atleast, CG like if seen with squinted eyes

Can't waaaait! Aaaah, don't excite me anymore please, its already too much for me to grasp, amazing! Oh I Love Sony, bring it on guys

**Makaveli_786** · 05-15-2005

I won't comment on that I'll just post this:

One high-profile developer who has seen both the PS3 and XBox 2 technology recentley whispered into my innocent ear, "The next PlayStation is way, way, more powerful than Xbox 2. It's insanely powerful."... Source E.G.M.

**PS Gamer** · 05-15-2005

Yea I saw that a long long long long time ago...

**Damnit** · 05-15-2005

Granted that PSGamer, what do you think of whose console will have games cheaper to develop for? I mean they devs. were so not into the money spending thing. I heard that a lot.

Yea mak, I read about the EGM thing too. I remember that quote gave me a significant edge against my Xbox loyal friend over here... last year! LOL Have been pummeling him ever since with that quote and he always shuts up :P since he once himself claimed to me that EGM are the real deal. Axe on his own feet? OH YEAH!

**PS Gamer** · 05-15-2005

Well it all depends on how much the price is going to be on the BR discs...easier developing would be X360 (Yes I know I am contradicting myself), though it doesn't me the PS3 is going to be a hard to dev. for.

It also depends if they can mass produce the BR...right now BR-Drives are going for A LOT over in Japan.

Everything will be brought up in the future...just don't know when.

(On a side note...I have exceeded the post in a set amount of time and can't get any points...down with the system!

jk)

**Chaotic_King** · 05-15-2005

I thought that there was going to be little difference between the Xbox360 and PlayStation3?

**nappa** · 05-15-2005

I would like to know one thing, if the ps3 were to have two cells pushing 384 gigaflops each, then what should be the estimated price point of the system in your opinions? personally I think it should be between $299 to $399.

**muchuukuri** · 05-15-2005

The DD2 1:8 CELL processor revision is what pushes a theoretical max 383 GFLOPs; it's not simply 2 "CELL"s stuck together. However, there's some debate to whether or not this is true... it's guesses based on seeing a shot of the redesigned CELL... so while yeah, you can infer a lot from the design there's a chance it's not true... we'll have to wait to hear what Sony says.

I think the price will be $350... any more than that any you turn away the casual gamers... Sony will simply have to eat the money spent on it.

X2 · 05-15-2005

You guys have to understand those demos you saw of the 360 were on alpha kits with only a 2 core processor. Not even the finalize hardware yet. Also the xbox360 you saw on tv and have been seeing on the web is not final. I mean the design is but the specs on the hardware is not. MS said that as they get closer to launch the specs can change. So I wouldn't underestimate MS just yet. PS3 is going to be powerful don't get me wrong, but it is a big difference between power and balance. The more sophiscated the hardware the more sophisticated the software has to be. That's a hard task even MS said they had problems with keeping the software and the hardware on the same level, but they got it done. Not saying sony can't but I have my doubts. You also have to understand what MS is doing. It's not just about sheer power anymore. It's about the triple threat Hardware, Software and Services. Hardware that is pushed to it's limits by great software and services that allow the consumer to share that and there entertainment with family, friends and people all around the world. The 360 got software in it that won't hit pc's until 2007 and some software that the pc graphic cards will never see. So would you consider this generation war to be balance vs power and who do you think would win? Balanced or Powerful?

I means it's about what the consumer wants, but to some extent is more about what the developers want and need in order for the consumer to be happy. I'm sorry, but sheer power is just not going to cut it. But hey this is just my opinion so I'll just wait and see.

**phobia** · 05-15-2005

Well if you are going to say your oppinions at least make sure your fundaments for them are correct!

**straightballin** · 05-15-2005

Now also take into consideration, that Sony is considering about putting 2 cell chips in its system, making it possible to reach up to 600-700 Gflops/s.

So basically if the PS3 reaches 600+ Gflops its considered a supercomputer. Right?