Another forum suggestion, or at least: suggestions for the forum

[webshark]

yeah, this is my second thread here i two days. fortunately for the mods, this isnt either questioning them asking a question of them. this is more for the members. unfortunately, i pretty much know this one is going to end badly, but i just cant not post this.


to the [entire] community at large:

GROW THE HECK UP!!!!!

the way this forum has been handling itself these last few days has been reminiscent of post-MS E3 pressco. (and that includes BOTH the winners and losers in this months NPD)

i invite anyone viewing this thread to take a good look at the the infractions section and just look at the way we have been conducting ourselves.

i really thought we were better than this here.

Dont make a flippant or insulting response when you see a post you dont like, Report it, dont respond
Dont play the mod and label other people as trolls or fanboys, it makes YOU look more like one
Dont assume the mods are in league against you, i was 5 points shy of being perma'd for a while and I think they are pretty fair.
Dont tell people to find another forum if they dont agree with your view, debate breeds good members and exposes bad ones.
Dont always assume the worst out of your fellow members, the vast majority of us are here because we LIKE games and talking about them
Dont always work in absolutes, the world is not black and white, its a whole hell of a lot of gray.
Dont make grand generalizations either, you will most likely find someone here who will disprove it factually.
Dont assume one faction of the forum is the root of all evil, it takes two to tangle

i dont care if i may not be the best person to post this, and i know i may sound like blacksite right now, but jesus people, cant we at least attempt to be civil regardless of how good or bad our console of choice is doing?

/rant

[Gilly3]

unfortunately your time is wasted here. the majority of members never even think about coming into this section. lets hope those who do help to make the community better.

[Lethalmind]

This would serve better purpose as an announcement or even one of those automated PMs. I fear that alot of members don't take the time to read these threads or even post suggestions to help this site.

[webshark]

probly not, but i wanted to say it regardless.

looking at the infractions section tonight was just sooooooo depressing...

[admartian]

Hey, what's wrong with sounding like Blacksite?

But yeah, civility is not the strongest suite of some. I guess that's just what happens as the population grows. I mean just look at Gaf and how they treat each other there.

[Poida]

Good post mate, well said.
This is a great forum and with help from members including myself it can become a better place to discuss games.

[radgamer420]

This would serve better purpose as an announcement or even one of those automated PMs. I fear that alot of members don't take the time to read these threads or even post suggestions to help this site.

I totally agree because I also dont think alot of members even look in this part of the forum. Great thread though webshark. I just got through looking in the infraction section myself and it was pretty bad. Alot of hostlity going on between both camps. On the positive side I did see some good people in some of the threads who were trying to be the peacemakers. That was very encouraging to see.

[Bitbydeath]

In the infamous words of Jack..


"Why can't we all just.. get along"

[jaewest304]

Webshark

This is a good post and I think it's very well written and does make sense, but after going through the infractions list I am not at all sad. I think it's good actually. Now that people are being caught maybe this non sense will slow down.

I also looked at the top 9 in the list and it's not just one side or the other getting infractions so it's fair as well. Im glad to see that some of the serious trolls are getting the attention they desevre and I think this will lead us back to a few months ago when trolling wasn't as bad as it is now.

I do agree that folks should lighten up here and attempt to be reasonable and civil towards each other. I look forward to things going back to "normal" here and the members that get banned...well they must not need to be here. All in all great post though Webshark

[A7MAD]

I kind of bailed when the NPD reared it's head, as soon as I seen the figures I knew flamebait, trolling and denial posts would pop up everywhere.

I've been more on PSN the last few days playing R2 and GTA IV (unlocking Trophies).

[carocat]

*phew* I came into this thread expecting the usual mod bashing, infraction contesting, etc.

I have been very shocked by the amount of crap on the forums since the NPD [which I kinda missed in an internet outtage day]. Now it seems like the gloves are off and many are just trolling for the sake of it.

This is in effect still a continuation from the other thread you made, even though I don't want to see the arguments here again! We have been discussing for a while on how to make the forums better and the NPD and the last day have sort of made it more urgent to come to a decision about it all to make sure the forum gets back to a happy [happier at least?] place and hopefully last night at least served a little reminder stuff like that ain't tolerated.

I freaking hope so anyway as it was hard work. LOL.

[Sieghardt]

The community shouldnt explode at the slightest provocation but they shouldnt be made to suffer fools gladly either.

[Callo]

Great thread Webshark.

I agree that people shouldn't get involve in arguments with trolls and just report them. That would make the mods' work much easier to weed them out.

After reading the infraction section it makes me happy to know that mods are cracking down harder on trollers. Thank you mods.

[Mana Knight]

I'm going to be perfectly honest, to an extent, sometimes I feel NPD threads shouldn't be open for discussion. While some might think their freedom is being limited, I just feel they bring the worst in certain people, whether it's their console winning or losing (Losing with all the whining and complaining. Winning with all the bragging and putting down the other platforms). Sometimes I feel NPD numbers should be posted (maybe stickied for a week or two) in a locked thread. If threads are complaining or mentioning a console doing so well or so bad, just have them closed. I know doing this would be going a bit too far and somewhat limiting discussion, but from all the forums I've been to for years, sales threads tend to be where all the arguments/trolling/flaming/etc. occur (and it's unfortunate). If everyone acted like mature adults in those threads (some do, so I'm not knocking everyone) saying stuff like "kind of sucks to see sales decrease from last month", "maybe sales improved due to the new marketing campaign going on", and other things.

Sales threads aren't the only ones that have issues at times, but I personally feel they are one of the main problematic threads.

This is completely my opinion though.

[webshark]

yeah, in some ways the infractions section shows good and bad. it shows the mods are doing a good job at cracking down on some of the more ridiculous stuff, but the riddiculous stuff in and of itself is just that: ridiculous, and its kinda depressing to read it all...

I'm going to be perfectly honest, to an extent, sometimes I feel NPD threads shouldn't be open for discussion. While some might think their freedom is being limited, I just feel they bring the worst in certain people, whether it's their console winning or losing (Losing with all the whining and complaining. Winning with all the bragging and putting down the other platforms). Sometimes I feel NPD numbers should be posted (maybe stickied for a week or two) in a locked thread. If threads are complaining or mentioning a console doing so well or so bad, just have them closed. I know doing this would be going a bit too far and somewhat limiting discussion, but from all the forums I've been to for years, sales threads tend to be where all the arguments/trolling/flaming/etc. occur (and it's unfortunate). If everyone acted like mature adults in those threads (some do, so I'm not knocking everyone) saying stuff like "kind of sucks to see sales decrease from last month", "maybe sales improved due to the new marketing campaign going on", and other things.

Sales threads aren't the only ones that have issues at times, but I personally feel they are one of the main problematic threads.

This is completely my opinion though.

and to that i would say that that is protecting the true trolls on the forums.

thats one of the great strengths and weaknesses of Sales threads. it brings out the worst in people. if that happens to show someone is a fanboy or troll, imo, its better to show it there than have them stay here forever as a stealth.

that is also the reason im such a huge proponent of this idea. that would be the prefect solution in my eyes. it moves all the problem threads to one central area that the mods could watch like hawks, and it also allows for MUCH easier access to older sales data--something that is really hard to find using the search function as it is now.

[Flamer]

I totally aggree with you, webshark. I hope one day the true trollers and the spammers get banned, and then it's the end of this nonesense. I know I'm new to this forum, and I haven't quite seen the trolling, but I am a member of other vBulletin forums who have this exact same problem. Problems like these are hard to stop, but somewhere, there's always a solution. Surely we could implement something to stop spammers, and trollers, and rule breakers. I doubt there is, though. Anyway I'm sure in a couple days, weeks or months even, that the forum will come to it's senses, and stop breaking the rules. Trolling is totally innapropriate, and we wan't this site to be clean obviously. So yeah, maybe after loads of trollers and rule breakers have been banned, the members won't wan't to mess with the staff .

[Jaeger]

You'll get the same on every forum regardless of what actions you take to stop it.

There will always be members out to break rules just to make a point and PS3Forums is no exception. You can write up as many rules and guidelines as you like but it won't stop some fanboy morons going out of their way to get their point across. I do agree with you, though, that you'd expect better from certain people. I've seen some of the more mature members being infracted and even banned for making a stupid comment regarding consoles hardware and software. It's not just the games sections being invaded by the 'stupid parade' either, you get some of these unevolved idiots escaping into General Chit-Chat spouting their crap. It's bad enough they do this in PS3 Games but to have it done in the General Chit-Chat is just plain embarassing for the members who act decent.

It's kind of embarassing to think that I had the least bit of respect for them. That's not to say I don't respect them anymore but I just wish some people would engage their brains before putting pen to paper. Now, I'm not saying I'm perfect when it comes to posting but I'd like to think that I act a whole lot better than other certain members. And I know for a fact that, 90% of the time, I don't know what I'm talking about but I'd like to think that I'm not spouting the same old crap that these people are talking about. I know this is supposed to be a forum where you're allowed freedom of speech [to an extent] but maybe it's time the forum staff started to clamp down more on the rulebreakers and troublemakers. The warning and infraction forum may already be full with topics detailing the members who have been warned and infracted recently but, in my opinion, it's just not enough. I'm seeing more warnings and infractions than I am bans, and it's getting to be a bit of a joke.

I've seen threads which are blatantly mocking PS3 sales, and the original posters have recieved mere warnings or a small infraction. Yet the people who support PS3, and PS3Forums, have defended their system of choice AND the forum and have been banned for doing so. I can't name names, or remember exact thread titles, but I do remember seeing stuff like this happen and, again, it's kind of embarassing that the staff of PS3Forums are banning the crowd who support them and are letting off the trolls. For example, take the recent forum announcement - members like rikwakefield, PXG S3 and Switch have been banned but, from what I've seen of them, they have done nothing wrong. Infact, I've seen rikwakefield defend the PS3 countless times. He was banned because of apparent trolling. Yet, if an Xbox 360 supporter was to do the same, they would more than likely be let off. The announcement makes it clear that trolls from either side 'will not be tolerated' and will supposedly be banned. I'd like to see this in action before I actually believe it, though.

Anyway, back on to the path I was originally going down, the staff really need to clamp down on the people who think they can get away with causing trouble. The infraction forum may be full, but it's not full enough. I feel more needs to be done about the trolls, and the minority of moronic people who like to spout crap, and it needs to be done soon. I'd hate to see the forum go down the steep hill it's heading towards as I intend on being a member here for a very long time but, unless something is done about these troublemakers, I can only see it going one way and it's not a very pretty sight on the horizon.

[REFLEX]

The staff have spent many long hours discussing what should be done. We have been doing this since BEFORE all this trouble started. Recent events have pushed our time table forward and we have implemented the change.

Trolls from both sides of the fence get their bans. If you choose to see it another way then you are looking at the situation with blinders on. The people who defend the PS3 that get infractions or bans call the staff "XBOT MODERATORS", and the 360 fans who get banned or infracted call us "PS3 FANBOYS". And even back when HD DVD and Blu-ray were squaring off, If we banned a Blu-ray supporter we got PMs saying "You're a anti-sony fanboy", then when we would ban a HD DVD support who was rallying against Sony we'd get PMs saying we "Sony fanboys with an agenda against anything not Sony".

The point is that people look at it from their one side. The staff have taken considerations that most people wouldn't think about. And we have varying opinions, which works as a benefit to the cause.

Anyone defending the persons who just got the ban handed down, clearly do not have the knowledge needed to make a proper judgement. You see some of their posts. We see them all.

[carocat]

For example, take the recent forum announcement - members like rikwakefield, PXG S3 and Switch have been banned but, from what I've seen of them, they have done nothing wrong. Infact, I've seen rikwakefield defend the PS3 countless times. He was banned because of apparent trolling. Yet, if an Xbox 360 supporter was to do the same, they would more than likely be let off. The announcement makes it clear that trolls from either side 'will not be tolerated' and will supposedly be banned. I'd like to see this in action before I actually believe it, though.

Are we on the same forum reading the posts by the same people here?!

rikwakefield and Switch were huge 360 fans sometimes even making me doubt they even own a PS3!

Not to say they didn't have their good posts, by all means, some of rik's posts were funny and I will miss that, but the amount of threads they've destroyed by posting flamebait or trolling early on as well as pushing in arguments far outweighs any few funny posts..

[REFLEX]

They are the kind of people who you give an inch and they take a mile.

[Sventax]

How about the people who just say what they think, thinking like in Freedom of speech backed by sound thinking and no influence of the Ego.

I have "pissed" on the Wii, PS3 and the Xbox360 but I have also praised all three.
I have been banned several times and I still don't agree with the bans and infractions.
A Moderator like Nuvian demanding I answer his private messages is beyond Freedom to roam on a form and is in fact restricting your soul and encourage you to use your ego. It will blemish a site beyond repair. The result are felt while you see the userbase depleting.

It's like a stigma. Ones it goes bad it goes downhill. All the the effort that's being don to keep the users happy is futile because the real purpose of a forum is no being used to it's fullest.

FREEDOM TO COMMUNICATE!!

If you talk to someone face to face and he or she tells you I don't want to hear your words you stop talking and you move along.
On the Forums it's quit different, you have to deal with 50k individual souls and the same rule should be applied. If you don't like don't fight it (because in real life a small kid won't hit a bully). Move along let an elder take care of the problem if you read something you don't like. Always keep in mind freedom of speech is paramount in every conversation.

You know I see a lot of trolling and baits and whatever but it does not bother me.

Most people on this forum are young and tend to be "borderliners" Kids will always try. Moderating rules and punishments should be adapted with rehabilitation in mind. Rehabilitation; Let them say anything in the 1st 100 posts and everytime they bend the rules take all their credits and mail them a copy of the "rules"...or something else.

You see kids are smart and very inventive they can bait and lure others into a war it's up to the moderator to correct these souls. Banning is not helping the forums because it is slowly dying off.

I don't have any cleus for now but the way it is going is not oke. I liked it a year ago, where everyhting goes. There were debats and wars and mayhem...it was alive.

Forcing a member on this forum is pushing a member away.

You see..I have I don't know, like 10 points to go before I get a perma ban...it would not bother me, wel maybe the first weeks, but after that...there are numerous Forums...... It's easy to get a million, but it's harder to keep it (think about relation ships).

Well that was my rant for now.

[jaewest304]

I would like to say that even though I have recently got "into" it with Switch and Rikwakefield I think they had their good points, BUT I am very glad that the mods are taking control and some long time high post count members being banned will show people that the constent trolling is not going to be allowed.

I think the mods are doing a very good job taking the troll clamp down into effect and I think this recent 8 person ban will show new members that are borderline that it's best just to leave the serious trolling at the door.

Great job mods and even though these choices are not easy to make every time, I think that sometimes losing a long standing member is better for the forum as a whole. Just my $.02 though

[Jaeger]

Are we on the same forum reading the posts by the same people here?!

rikwakefield and Switch were huge 360 fans sometimes even making me doubt they even own a PS3!

Not to say they didn't have their good posts, by all means, some of rik's posts were funny and I will miss that, but the amount of threads they've destroyed by posting flamebait or trolling early on as well as pushing in arguments far outweighs any few funny posts..

They are the kind of people who you give an inch and they take a mile.

Like I said, they seem like good members from the posts I've seen. I'm well aware that it is impossible for me to have seen ALL their posts but I've seen enough to build an opinion on them. I'm not saying their honest to God angels or anything - they've each made mistakes that needn't have happened - but they did defend the PS3 at times, and that makes them at least a bit respectable.

[webshark]

the only real question i have about the new bout of bannings is about switch.

he had been in the middle of a 2 month ban for the last couple of weeks if memory serves. was his sentence extended to perma status while he was still on leave?

oh and mods: thanks for letting me stay last i heard i was near the top of the chopping block :P

[Blacksite]

There's one thing you guys overlooked about trolling: it's a cycle, a NEVER-ENDING CYCLE.

Trolls will come and go, and no matter how many of them you ban, only more will return. And in my opinion, the only way to prevent this from happening is to scrap the registration feature. At least temporarily... because then you can go through the members list and link those people to the reported posts that qualify as trolling material. But the downside to this is that there are also members that you need to take note of, those who were goody-two-shoes that'll slowly, for whatever reason, become trolls. Sooner or later, you won't have any members at all. Trolling is like a disease and the remedy for it is never clear. The forum staff is stuck doing the same method over and over, and this reality-check won't really change much. Some people just don't care at all, and while that is sad, it's the truth.

This crack-down on trolling, while it is a good move, it won't last forever.