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  1. #1
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    State of the PS3 OS: Any updates?

    Ok boys and girls, last I heard the PS3 OS was 34-38MB in size. (6MB bigger than the 360's OS).

    Any updates on this? Also, are features such as "Voice Chat" "Free" to developers now? (Offered as a feature by the OS) or is it still broken down into those little modules?

    I recall chat being free in-game for awhile.. But if there are any people here "In the know" please let me know.

    (Or just shoot me an email at Vulgotha@yahoo.com for anonymity reasons).


  2. #2
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    O.o whoa daev did this place get spammed?

    And nobody has anything to talk about?

    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread...=41998&page=16


    ^ Interesting little feud here between multiplat developers Joker (somewhat infamous) and TimothyFarrar on Beyond3d. I'm curious about all this..

    Mynd\jabjabs if either of you are online and read this, shoot me an email.


  3. #3
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    Well, from my knowledge....wait...never mind. I'm no techie.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    O.o whoa daev did this place get spammed?

    And nobody has anything to talk about?

    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread...=41998&page=16


    ^ Interesting little feud here between multiplat developers Joker (somewhat infamous) and TimothyFarrar on Beyond3d. I'm curious about all this..

    Myndjabjabs if either of you are online and read this, shoot me an email.
    From what I have gathered, the edram savings is one of the biggest ones compared to a Ps3.
    Especially when using MSAA the difference can be quite big, 720p with 4xMSAA backbuffer is almost 30MB.

    This is one of the reasons many developers use buffers again and again for several things.

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    And this all means? *shrugs

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    Joker454 raises some interesting points...

    Thanks for the link Vultgotha!
    Gaming on all platforms right now.

  7. #7
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    Joker454 definitley brngs up some very interesting points. Great read.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlippone View Post
    From what I have gathered, the edram savings is one of the biggest ones compared to a Ps3.
    Especially when using MSAA the difference can be quite big, 720p with 4xMSAA backbuffer is almost 30MB.

    This is one of the reasons many developers use buffers again and again for several things.

    So is the PS3 truly that memory limited? Joker's posts seem horribly one sided.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    So is the PS3 truly that memory limited? Joker's posts seem horribly one sided.
    For Linux, anyway, it feels ridiculously cramped -- compare it with the $300 laptop I picked up at Target (one of the stripped-down Eee systems), which came with 512MB core out of the box and which I upgraded to 2GB for $20...

    XDR's more expensive than DDR, and the PS3's specs and build came about right as a whole bunch of video card vendors were starting to jump to 512MB VRAM and main system memory started being typically 1-2GB for even "cheap" computers. So it feels a bit cramped now, even though it's a ton of memory compared to older systems.

    As a second point, Cell's always going to seem more memory-limited than a slower chip would -- you can do enough more that you run out of places to store things much faster. For a slower CPU, trying to do a video game, you might not need as much memory because you simply couldn't do enough processing fast enough.

    Everything in a system tends to grow. The bottleneck is usually whatever grew the slowest.

  10. #10
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    Well, I meant in-game actually compared to the 360. Joker's consistent criticisms of the PS3 has me thinking.

    For example saving 30MB of RAM thanks to Edram, (360) while it sucks it up on the PS3. That sort of thing.

    Any memory saving attributes the PS3 has? Or is Edram really the "End all to be all"? I thought alot of people didn't like it.


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    EDRAM is useful for some things, and a workaround for others. It's useful to have a chunk of extremely fast memory for short-term operations which would otherwise need memory, for instance.

    I think it's more useful to the GPU on the 360 than to the CPU. This tends to favor the view that the 360's GPU-heavy and the PS3's CPU-heavy.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by seebs View Post
    I think it's more useful to the GPU on the 360 than to the CPU. This tends to favor the view that the 360's GPU-heavy and the PS3's CPU-heavy.
    It's pretty much given as only ROPs of the GPU can read or write to it.
    The biggest gain for X360 CPU is that GPU doesn't saturate as much the main memory as it would without edram.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    So is the PS3 truly that memory limited? Joker's posts seem horribly one sided.
    Well, games rarely use 4xMSAA so the difference is usually smaller, but even 15MB is quite big difference when there is only 512MB to burn.
    I would guess that Ps3 is more memory limited than X360, but nowhere near as much as Ps2 was in comparison to Xbox1.

  13. #13
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    So is there any real benefit that the PS3 has with sticking to a split pool architecture? I mean supposedly it has more bandwidth (total) to throw around.. Cell does for sure.

    -_- I wish I could have somebody send me some updated OS figures... I was fairly confident in what I was told last time about 35MB..

    .. I'm also curious if there is indeed a "Memory discrepancy" why are so many PS3 games (comparatively speaking to other platforms) so amazing looking?

    MGS4
    RFOM2
    KZ2
    Uncharted


    These all come to mind to me... So maybe the 1st\close second party devs know something that others don't? Or perhaps it's just heavier Cell utilization and being clever... How does Cell play into all this? It certainly bolsters RSX.. Roughly 25-30% increase for render time if you offload alot of work to it.

    That's quite a boost.


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    I think one of the big issues is that the "base" OS may use less memory, but additional features use more -- so it's hard to guess how much is really available to developers without knowing which features they use.

    I think the PS3 gains a substantial benefit from a split pool for performance, the problem is just that both sides of the pool are a bit small for the hardware. Even just going to 384 of each would make a very noticeable difference, I'd guess, in available memory to work with.

    It's always hard to figure out how much memory you'll need, and I don't think anyone had any real notion in advance of what Cell would be like when confronted with actual memory. Apparently, it can use a LOT of memory very quickly.

  15. #15
    PSU Technical Advisor
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    I had heard\thought that Cell was actually quite efficient with memory though? Threading and the onboard SPE cache help to alleviate alot of memory grabbing doesn't it?


    Regarding the features:

    1. Unified Friend's list is no longer even necessary. In-Game XMB eliminates the need\use for it.
    1a. UF was only really used (SCIV, RB6V2, RFOM) in menu screens or lobbies- never actually rendered in-game. So it wouldn't be idling and sucking up RAM

    2. In-Game Keyboard is the same as 1a. It wouldn't ever really be used In-Game and it's a procedural thing (isn't it?)

    The only other features which (might?) be used "In-game" would be:

    HDD Streaming of Music. with is what? 8MB-12MB? But I'm sure there are work arounds for the devs. Don't they just use the same buffer for audio and replace it with your track selections? Or is there more to it?

    Voice Chat. That's like 6MB, as of like 8+ months ago. I thought it was "Free" by now, and covered in the base OS.

    ..?


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