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  1. #3476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surebrec View Post
    I've been saying it for some time now that there will be a female driver in F1 sooner rather than later, I think it will be considerably less time than 10 years

    weight is not really an issue because the weight saved by a female driver would have to be offset to meet the minimum weight requrement of the car and driver overall.

    I can't see $#@!pit size being a problem either, women are on average smaller than men, so there will be more room to play with in terms of seat fitting and protective padding around the knees. the only time a woman would struggle to fit in an F1 car, is if they have overly massive breasts, which considering breast tissue is mostly fat, and racing drivers probably have on average one of the lowest fat to body tissue ratios among athletes, the chances of it happening are practically non-existant.
    dude! why u no fan breast!!

    i wasn't being serious with my points. i was merely generalizing.

    however, females aren't as competitive as males, this is fact not sexism. F1 is physically demanding and woman aren't physically capable. again, this is fact im not being sexist.
    im not saying they can't drive in F1, but over the course of a race they'd become shadowed by the males in the field who are still capable of performing in the latter stages.
    Micheal Schumacher in Belgium is a prime example, he was far more capable then all the males in the field when he started, he could take corners at speeds others couldn't manage due to their inability to physically control the car. all males are at this level now, and females dont fit in that same league.

    i'd love for woman to be in F1 but only if they were truly deserving of the seat. which is extreamly unlikely given the immense level of competitiveness between males.
    females simply don't have the drive to be competitive, and more importantly, maintain competitiveness.

    i should also appologise for using "males" and "females" to get my point across. i realise i might come across as somewhat chauvinistic, but is was merely speaking plainly.

    p.s, i can't stress enough that im not against woman being in F1. im all for open sport, but i would dislike to see a woman given a seat just for the publicity....when there are men out there more deserving who could take it. fairness should work both ways.
    Last edited by Fijiandoce; 06-09-2012 at 04:00.
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  2. #3477
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    Canada tomorrow race starts 19:00 UK time.

    http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/live-on-sky/

    The average male couldnt drive F1 car for almost 2 hours flat out either, you have to train to do so and any woman would also be highly trained to drive in F1.
    Last edited by keefy; 06-09-2012 at 22:51.

  3. #3478
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Canada tomorrow race starts 19:00 UK time.

    http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/live-on-sky/

    The average male couldnt drive F1 car for almost 2 hours flat out either, you have to train to do so and any woman would also be highly trained to drive in F1.
    lucky! us here in the pacific isles need to wake up at 5 in the morning
    one thing im finding strange about this season.....BBC commentary live every race
    Sky got some sort of raw ass deal

    about the woman though, that's my point. all things being equal, a man is physically more capable. and therefore lasts longer under physical pressure.
    this is also why our arses die first
    Last edited by Fijiandoce; 06-10-2012 at 01:25.
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  4. #3479
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    I wouldn't wake up for that. I would have Had to do that for that Aussie race but I didn't.

    If it is a running race then yes I would agree, but it is not so I do not.

    The only reason there are not many women is because not as many women are interested in the sport and of course if there are loads of men that are better than the few women that are good then those will be chosen.

    I have seen a girl in karting go from the back of the field to second place but if there was 1 more lap she wold have been first.
    I realy do wish I remembered her name because I think we will see more of her in the next few years.
    Last edited by keefy; 06-10-2012 at 02:36.

  5. #3480
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    I wouldn't wake up for that. I would have Had to do that for that Aussie race but I didn't.

    If it is a running race then yes I would agree, but it is not so I do not.

    The only reason there are not many women is because not as many women are interested in the sport and of course if there are loads of men that are better than the few women that are good then those will be chosen.

    I have seen a girl in karting go from the back of the field to second place but if there was 1 more lap she wold have been first.
    I realy do wish I remembered her name because I think we will see more of her in the next few years.
    sadly, if i want to watch it i must get up
    we get no replays, and i dont trust sky's recording function in this part of the world.

    i'm not saying woman couldn't compete, what im saying is they couldn't do it effectively.

    Men, have broader shoulders for a reason, we have significantly higher muscle mass than woman. this helps men, in F1, when they pull 5G's at the first turn at monza(for eg) lap after lap. or when they pull 3G's around fast corners. men have way more upper body strength, and as a result better support.
    Men's physical advantages help in these situations.
    a woman, who will have significantly less muscle mass, will struggle under these conditions, lap after lap, as they just aren't physically capable of supporting their mass under these circumstances.

    all this without the inclusion of males awesome, naturally occurring, wonder drug; Adrenaline
    woman don't work the same way we do. and a a result they cant physically perform the same way we do.

    p.s i hope it's obvious that im playing devils advocate here >_>
    as i've said im all for woman in F1. but men are just as deserving and shouldn't be passed over for the sake of placation.
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  6. #3481
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    Well deserved podiums by all drivers with all 3 of them chasing down what was the current leaders at the time (Vettel & Alonso) just goes to show how imporant tyres are in motorsport I bet Alonso and Vettel are kicking themselves they didnt pit.

    Was easily the best race all season.

    Last edited by keefy; 06-10-2012 at 21:02.

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    That was a beautiful race. I don't think anybody could have guessed that podium from the race start.
    I once ate a dirty sock...don't tell anyone.
    World domination has taken a momentary setback...talk amongst yourselves in the meantime.
    UK>America. its just true

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  10. #3483
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    wtf! what voodoo master is screwing with schumeys car!?
    reliability on that car is rubbish!

    however, 7 winners from 7 races!
    unprecedented!!

    practically woke every one up screaming when Vettel and Alonso didn't come in
    those final laps were amazing to watch! Alonso's drive was amazing given the circumstances in the closing stages.

    Next up the UK (another early morning )
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    Yeah I truly feel for MSC. It's just horrible luck. Watching everyone out there trying to fix it was really painful, everything seems to be going wrong for him.

    Valencia is next btw. Not Silverstone.
    I once ate a dirty sock...don't tell anyone.
    World domination has taken a momentary setback...talk amongst yourselves in the meantime.
    UK>America. its just true

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    Couldn't believe Alonso didnt pit earlier :/. Hasn't his car been rougher on the tyres all season? Didn't seem like a very clever move. Even Vettel pitting with 5 laps to go nailed him 4th, otherwise he would have suffered the same fate as Fernando.

    Anyway really good race, really happy for Lewis. He was excellent ! Couple of what seemed like dodgy pits, but he pulled through

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelios View Post
    Valencia is next btw. Not Silverstone.
    hadn't had any coffee yet
    European races are going to be torture for us here in the pacific

    the races that Micheal has finished he has done extreamly well in. his 2 points have come from 2 races where he had to race from the back of the grid.
    every other race he's retired due to car failure (except that one genuine accident)
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  14. #3487
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    Sky Sports F1 Pundit Anthony Davidson appeared unhurt, but it was later found out that he has two damaged vertebrae. Still he seems in goods spirits.

    Davidson sustains broken back following airborne crash at Le Mans
    By Simon Strang Sunday, June 17th 2012, 00:34 GMT

    Anthony Davidson has sustained a broken back in his airborne accident at the end of the Mulsanne straight earlier in the Le Mans 24 Hours.

    The Toyota driver suffered breaks to his T11 and T12 vertebrae after the #81 AF Corse collided with the hybrid prototype, causing it to flip into the air before crashing heavily into the barriers.

    Initially it seemed that Davidson had emerged unscathed from the crash, but was diagnosed with his injuries after he was transferred to a local hospital from the circuit's medical centre.

    Davidson confirmed details of the injury to AUTOSPORT, following a tweet which read: "Well that was a big one! Lying in a French hospital with a broken back wasn't what I had in mind at this stage in the race..."

    The 33-year-old Briton will remain in hospital until at least Monday.

    Both Toyota TS030 machines retired from the team's debut with the second car withdrawing through engine-related problems in the 11th hour.

    click link to see crash!!
    http://www.miascuderia.com/images/20...LeMans2012.gif
    Last edited by nextgen3; 06-18-2012 at 20:13.


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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Well deserved podiums by all drivers with all 3 of them chasing down what was the current leaders at the time (Vettel & Alonso) just goes to show how imporant tyres are in motorsport I bet Alonso and Vettel are kicking themselves they didnt pit.

    Was easily the best race all season.

    You and I have two completely different ideas of what makes up a good race.

    This season, the cars don't matter. Neither do the drivers. It's all about the tyres. It doesn't matter if you're the fastest car on the track and the fastest driver in F1, you can and will be beaten by a 2nd or 3rd tier team with a mediocre driver who happens to time their pitstops just right.

    I don't think "We came in second because we pitted on lap 44 instead of lap 46" makes a great race.

    Sooner or later one of these backmarker teams is going to get the brilliant idea of pitting ever 10 laps, making 7 or 8 pitstops in the race and still end up winning it, just to show what a farce the whole thing is now.

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  18. #3490
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    But the fastest car and the best driver did win that race.
    And if the back marker teams do win a race they deserve it.

    This season is the best season for along time the points for driver championship is still wide open.
    Last edited by keefy; 06-18-2012 at 22:56.

  19. #3491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    You and I have two completely different ideas of what makes up a good race.

    This season, the cars don't matter. Neither do the drivers. It's all about the tyres. It doesn't matter if you're the fastest car on the track and the fastest driver in F1, you can and will be beaten by a 2nd or 3rd tier team with a mediocre driver who happens to time their pitstops just right.

    I don't think "We came in second because we pitted on lap 44 instead of lap 46" makes a great race.

    Sooner or later one of these backmarker teams is going to get the brilliant idea of pitting ever 10 laps, making 7 or 8 pitstops in the race and still end up winning it, just to show what a farce the whole thing is now.
    i suppose the tires drive themselves around the track? decide when to apply maximum grip? and decide when they don't want to work anymore?

    its almost insulting to fans to hear this being said. especially when the "top" teams are now racing within a second of one another. yes, this word "racing", the definition of the sport that millions of people watch can actually be used to accurately describe the sport and you call it a farce??
    because last year was soo exciting? what with everybody racing to win second....oh wait....you can't win if you finish second....

    also, many variables go into determining "fastest" car. and this year, teams are struggling with effective compromises.
    suffice to say Mclaren have the fastest car, yet they aren't so good at the start of races....is this the tires too??

    fyi, the cars do matter....i take offence to this. but that's all i'll say on the matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    But the fastest car and the best driver did win that race.
    RBR qualified on pole and ran the fastest lap in the race. Did the RBR win the race? I must have missed that part.

    As for the best driver, that's extremely debatable. Personally I think Hamilton has a ton of talent, but lacks the maturity and brains to be truely great. He makes way too many stupid mistakes.


    And if the back marker teams do win a race they deserve it.
    Why? Why does a mediocre team with a relatively uncompetitive car that couldn't even make it out of Q2 deserve a podium or a win just because they got lucky on the timing of their tyre change?


    This season is the best season for along time the points for driver championship is still wide open.
    2010 season was also extremely tight on points, with many changes in the WDC leader over the course of the season. The season still sucked though.

    This season they really aren't racing. They are driving to a preset lap time and hoping they have their tyre changes planned right. Sure the points are tight, but watching a backmarker drive past the pole sitter going 5 seconds a lap faster because of the tyres isn't much of a race if you ask me.






    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    i suppose the tires drive themselves around the track? decide when to apply maximum grip? and decide when they don't want to work anymore?
    To a large degree, YES, they do.

    The tyre degredation is entirely dependent on track temperature, not the driver, and not the car.

    Have you even listened to any of the interviews with the team principles? They are driving to a target time, not to the limits of the car or driver. It's essentially a Regularity Rally, not a Formula One race.


    its almost insulting to fans to hear this being said. especially when the "top" teams are now racing within a second of one another. yes, this word "racing", the definition of the sport that millions of people watch can actually be used to accurately describe the sport and you call it a farce??
    When the tyre manufacturer is more important than the race team, race car, or driver, yes, the race is a farce.

    The real insult to REAL racing fans is sitting there knowing the cars and drivers could go faster and could race against each other harder, but rather than pushing themselves and their cars to the limits, they're going to just drive around at a pre-designated lap time and hope that the sun doesn't come out from behind the clouds the lap after they pit.




    because last year was soo exciting? what with everybody racing to win second....oh wait....you can't win if you finish second....

    also, many variables go into determining "fastest" car. and this year, teams are struggling with effective compromises.
    suffice to say Mclaren have the fastest car, yet they aren't so good at the start of races....is this the tires too??
    Nonsense. The RBR is the fastest car in F1 right now. The RBR has 3 poles and the fastest lap in 2 races. The fastest car is Red Bull, hands down.

    McLaren only have 2 poles and only a single fastest lap.

    And Ferrari doesn't have a single pole, nor a single fastest lap.



    But, if Alonso had just pitted 5 laps after Hamilton and put supersofts on, a middle of the pack car with an average starting place of 5th would be leading the WDC.

    And look at what Vettel did. 8 laps to the end he pits, puts on supersofts, and manages to catch up to and blow past Alonso. Vettel was going 6 seconds per lap faster than Alonso, just from a tyre change. 6 SECONDS PER LAP!!!

    It's not about the car or the driver, it's all about the tyres.



    fyi, the cars do matter....i take offence to this. but that's all i'll say on the matter.
    Which is why a Sauber came in 2nd in Malaysia and a Williams won Spain, right? It also explains how the Sauber started 15th in Canada and yet passed the pole sitting RBR going 5 seconds a lap faster, right? Because those really are the best cars in F1 right now. Right?
    Last edited by Completely Average; 06-20-2012 at 06:46.

  21. #3493
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    Tyres are and always have been very important in F1 and in all motorsports its just that the race in question made it blatantly obvious how important they are. If a driver does not pit to change they end up being 5, 6 or more seconds per lap slower than the rest.

    They drive to a specified time because they do no have enough fuel in the cars to drive flat out to finish the race. The commentators mention this at practically every race event.
    Last edited by keefy; 06-20-2012 at 08:59.

  22. #3494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    To a large degree, YES, they do.


    The tyre degredation is entirely dependent on track temperature, not the driver, and not the car.


    Have you even listened to any of the interviews with the team principles? They are driving to a target time, not to the limits of the car or driver. It's essentially a Regularity Rally, not a Formula One race.

    you're contradicting yourself dude. i'll say this first about all your points.


    tire wear comes from spinning up the rear tires......who is in control of the pedal? the driver. even DC states this many times during a race....this is why cars slip from the rear when the tires go off.
    why is it that sauber finish so high...because the car allows them to use the tires longer than other teams. this is the CAR!




    When the tyre manufacturer is more important than the race team, race car, or driver, yes, the race is a farce.


    The real insult to REAL racing fans is sitting there knowing the cars and drivers could go faster and could race against each other harder, but rather than pushing themselves and their cars to the limits, they're going to just drive around at a pre-designated lap time and hope that the sun doesn't come out from behind the clouds the lap after they pit.
    that pre-designated lap time??? where'd you get this from. the major limiting factor is fuel, as this thing weighs and effects the whole car, and also needs to last the WHOLE race. this limits how hard the driver can push majorly. not the tires


    clearly you lack perspective here. if you push from behind, the car infront also pushes. both use the tires up at the same rate; in the ideal world of physics. in reality the guy behind will use his up more as the air he drives into is disturbed. but regardless, like for like your point is invalid.


    Nonsense. The RBR is the fastest car in F1 right now. The RBR has 3 poles and the fastest lap in 2 races. The fastest car is Red Bull, hands down.


    McLaren only have 2 poles and only a single fastest lap.


    And Ferrari doesn't have a single pole, nor a single fastest lap.






    But, if Alonso had just pitted 5 laps after Hamilton and put supersofts on, a middle of the pack car with an average starting place of 5th would be leading the WDC.


    And look at what Vettel did. 8 laps to the end he pits, puts on supersofts, and manages to catch up to and blow past Alonso. Vettel was going 6 seconds per lap faster than Alonso, just from a tyre change. 6 SECONDS PER LAP!!!


    It's not about the car or the driver, it's all about the tyres.

    i'll agree to disagree on the Car manufacturer


    as for the tires, as my above point stated, you race like for like.
    You go and make ANY soft tire that will last 50+ laps of F1 torture WITHOUT any performance drop-off and i will accept that argument.
    no matter what brand, compound, shape, or size of tire, after X amount of laps the rubber will no longer be there. and neither will your speed.


    Which is why a Sauber came in 2nd in Malaysia and a Williams won Spain, right? It also explains how the Sauber started 15th in Canada and yet passed the pole sitting RBR going 5 seconds a lap faster, right? Because those really are the best cars in F1 right now. Right?
    this reinforces my points in my previous post about the car, and my first point in this post....as i said you're contradicting yourself. clearly Barcelona (the preseason test track) likes the characteristics of the Williams CAR. and the sauber CARS are just able to last in a race. its kinda like the tortoise and the hare....i believe to two of them were racing


    like it or not, tires always effect performance. if you deem otherwise then you're 100 years early for the hover car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    RBR qualified on pole and ran the fastest lap in the race. Did the RBR win the race? I must have missed that part.
    the fastest car is not the one that does the fastest pole time, or sets the fastest lap, the fastest car is the one that sets the fastest average lap time of the race. a car that sets a faster average lap time in the race will always be faster than a car that just pulls the fastest lap out in a short qualifying stint.

    cars handle differently when they are fuelled up than they do when they are practically running on fumes in qualifying. this is not a new phenomena that has only come about in the last few seasons, it's been happening for decades. history is littered with examples of teams and drivers being the best part of a second a lap faster in qualifying, only to have their apparent pace vanish in the race itself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    This season they really aren't racing. They are driving to a preset lap time and hoping they have their tyre changes planned right. Sure the points are tight, but watching a backmarker drive past the pole sitter going 5 seconds a lap faster because of the tyres isn't much of a race if you ask me.
    yes they are racing, no less than they are in seasons past, and as for hoping they get their tyre changes planned right, again, this has been happening for as long as pit stops for new tyres have been happening. if they are trying to change their strategy on the fly, they will suggest to the driver that he takes it easy on the tyres for a few laps. this doesn't mean they are telling him to simply go slower, thet are telling him to drive more efficiently, ease off on planting the accelerator out of slow corners, reduce wheelspin etc. the preset lap time is not "preset" as such and has more to do with the fuel load than anything. since refuelling was banned, teams have to actively manage their race strategy. in simple terms, if you turn the wick up, you burn fuel faster, if you burn fuel faster without consideration, you won't finish the race.


    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    The tyre degredation is entirely dependent on track temperature, not the driver, and not the car.
    no it isn't, where did you get that idea from??? tyre degredation is down to the interaction between the tyre and the track, of which the driver has direct input and which the mechanical & aerodynamic characteristics of the car can amplify than track temperature.
    any time the tyre is losing traction with the track because of wheelspin, any time a wheel locks up under breaking, it's causing tyre degredation. that is nothing to do with track temperature. track temp affects the characteristics of the tyre. the only time it would cause problems, is if the driver couldn't get the tyre temp in the ideal temperature window.

    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    The real insult to REAL racing fans is sitting there knowing the cars and drivers could go faster and could race against each other harder, but rather than pushing themselves and their cars to the limits, they're going to just drive around at a pre-designated lap time and hope that the sun doesn't come out from behind the clouds the lap after they pit.
    the REAL insult to REAL racing fans, is when fairweather armchair fans start moaning when something isn't to their liking. as I already said, drivers have had the ability to go faster than they do in the race for decades. the tyres now have a durability rate that wasn't too dissimilar to the ones F1 used in the past, the only difference is the drop off rate is much more sudden than it was, this is why drivers have to try to second guess them, and is why when they get it wrong, the end result can result in lap times as varied as we've been seeing.






    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Nonsense. The RBR is the fastest car in F1 right now. The RBR has 3 poles and the fastest lap in 2 races. The fastest car is Red Bull, hands down.

    McLaren only have 2 poles and only a single fastest lap.

    And Ferrari doesn't have a single pole, nor a single fastest lap.
    again, single lap times aren't an indicator of which team has the faster package, it's the same with top speed, the car with the highest top speed is not the fastest car. all you are doing, is pointing out that the red bull is the fastest in short stint situations.



    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    But, if Alonso had just pitted 5 laps after Hamilton and put supersofts on, a middle of the pack car with an average starting place of 5th would be leading the WDC.
    if if if....

    if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. if the team had got their numbers crunched correctly, they would have had a good idea that the tyres wouldn't hold up. they messed up, so did red bull.

    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    And look at what Vettel did. 8 laps to the end he pits, puts on supersofts, and manages to catch up to and blow past Alonso. Vettel was going 6 seconds per lap faster than Alonso, just from a tyre change. 6 SECONDS PER LAP!!!
    wow, that's never happened before, has it? who'd have thunk it, a fresh set of super soft tyres being that much faster than tyres almost worn to the canvas. fact is, pushing a race strategy for a 1 stopper is trying to take too big a bite out of the apple, this applies just as much as it did way back when as it does now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    It's not about the car or the driver, it's all about the tyres.
    as with everything else you have typed, wrong. it IS all about the car AND the driver, and now they manage their tyres, not the other way round.





    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Which is why a Sauber came in 2nd in Malaysia and a Williams won Spain, right? It also explains how the Sauber started 15th in Canada and yet passed the pole sitting RBR going 5 seconds a lap faster, right? Because those really are the best cars in F1 right now. Right?
    different cars have different performance traits, a car that excels on one track is not guaranteed to excel on another, this is not limited to midfiel teams either. the sauber came second because it was better set up for those particular conditions. same applies to the williams, with the added fact that this years williams is a better car than a lot of people will give credit for, it's not a dog like the teams previous cars have been
    Last edited by Surebrec; 06-20-2012 at 12:02.
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    I quite like the new Pirelli tyres and what the bring to the race. Pit stops have always been crucial in F1 and now even more so. Hamilton more than deserved to win that race. He hasn't win 3 out of 4 races at Canada for no reason.

    Roll on Valencia, got a lot of time for that track. Who ever wins this race is certainly going to have an advantage. Hamilton may have a bit of breathing space if he can grab a podium or at least out race Alonso and Vettel


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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    You and I have two completely different ideas of what makes up a good race.

    This season, the cars don't matter. Neither do the drivers. It's all about the tyres. It doesn't matter if you're the fastest car on the track and the fastest driver in F1, you can and will be beaten by a 2nd or 3rd tier team with a mediocre driver who happens to time their pitstops just right.

    I don't think "We came in second because we pitted on lap 44 instead of lap 46" makes a great race.

    Sooner or later one of these backmarker teams is going to get the brilliant idea of pitting ever 10 laps, making 7 or 8 pitstops in the race and still end up winning it, just to show what a farce the whole thing is now.
    i agree with this to a CERTAIN extent. this is season is all about who can manage their tyres better (which irks me) but the car and driver still have an input.

    =Completely Average;5849372]RBR qualified on pole and ran the fastest lap in the race. Did the RBR win the race? I must have missed that part.

    As for the best driver, that's extremely debatable. Personally I think Hamilton has a ton of talent, but lacks the maturity and brains to be truely great. He makes way too many stupid mistakes.
    Shakes head,

    this season so far alone shows if lewis is fully focused and got all his $#@! together he is near untouchable.
    Last edited by 33x; 06-21-2012 at 13:03.

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    $#@!ing Mclaren man. They need to sort out their pit stops.


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    What a race so far! Shame about Grosjean, he was having a fantastic race


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    Can't believe Vettel retired.

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