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  1. #3751
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    Unfortunately not, this year is still going to be interesting though as Lotus are going in hard

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    Hamilton is fastest around Top Gear track beating Vettel by 1.1 seconds. 1:42.9
    Last edited by keefy; 02-17-2013 at 21:53.

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    It was a brilliant lap from Hamilton too.

    So... Testing session 1 at Catalunya today. Rosberg had the fastest time for the day the top 5 made up the following.

    1. N.Rosberg 1:22.616 - 54 laps
    2. K.Raikkonen 1:22.623 - 44 laps
    3. F.Alonso 1:22.952 -110 laps
    4. S.Vettel 1:22.965 - 66 laps
    5. P.Maldonado 1:23.733 - 86 laps

    Obviously we don't know the fuel loads of the cards so timings don't mean everything (i find it hard to believe Mercedes picked up that much pace with the new car) but it gives a rough idea.

    Williams also released their car...


    But it turns out the exhaust system on both the Williams and the Caterham are illegal. Looking forward to seeing what time Hamilton can post tomorrow. Will be interesting seeing how he compares to Vettel and Alonso.

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    seen that lap by lewis, freaking amazing!
    can't wait to see how he does in the Mercedes!

    lotus appear to be testing a new front nose cone....i'd say it's to increase their top speed by the shape.



    these guys could seriously push 3rd and 2nd place this year. red bull caught their stride at the end of last season so i expect them to have it this year
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    Less than 3 weeks to find out.

  6. #3756
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    So Paddy Lowe has left McLaren for Mercedes. There must be something wrong with management if two senior people have jumped ship.

    On the other hand for Mercedes now having Hamilton and Rosberg as their drivers and Ross Brawn and Paddy Lowe as technical directors it may be a bit late for their 2013 season but put those changes with the new engine Mercedes have been building for 2014 and it looks like that could be the year for them


    BBK. Tapatalking.

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    Ross will likely leave Mercedes, Paddy Lowe might take his place (is likely to take his place) as team principal - according to his job description.

    it kinda makes sense though in a way. Paddy Lowe has been in the shadow for a long time, the next logical step for him is to principal a team, and Mclaren don't seem to be making that decision any time soon.
    personally i'd like Ross Brawn to stay in the sport in some capacity and indeed within the team he kept in formula 1. it would be a shame to see him leave. Toto wolf is a tool, im saying it now, don't be surprised if you see Susie make the jump over too $$$$

    also Paddy Lowe is still at Mclaren this year isn't he? at least for this season, that's as i've been understanding it

    but i'd agree with Mercedes shaping up to be a potential contender in a few years, Aldo Costa championed changes to this years car, under Bob Bell. the list of known senior figures at Mercedes is astounding.
    i wish nico wasn't there tbh the team would be amazing with Schumacher and Hamilton driving them forward (no discredit to Rosberg though, i just don't think he's as good as Schumey or Hamilton is all )
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    Lewis Hamilton set a time of 1:20:558 around the circuit de catalunya
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21641411

    by contrast, last years pole time by lewis was 1:21.707!!!

    it should be noted that the circuit can be modified to be made shorter or longer, but it is still an impressive lap time!
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    McLaren poised to switch to Honda engines for 2015

    McLaren are to use Honda engines as the Japanese company returns to Formula 1 for the first time since 2008.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21655985

    would be very interesting to see how that would pan out
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post


    But it turns out the exhaust system on both the Williams and the Caterham are illegal. Looking forward to seeing what time Hamilton can post tomorrow. Will be interesting seeing how he compares to Vettel and Alonso.



    i didn't pay much attention to their car but its not surprising now that I've seen this picture.

    where the $#@! is the rest of their car!
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Hamilton is fastest around Top Gear track beating Vettel by 1.1 seconds. 1:42.9
    Not hard to do when you consider Vettel did it on a cold track in March and Hamilton did it on a warm track with ideal conditions in July. Any F1 fan should know what a difference warm tyres makes.



    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    Lewis Hamilton set a time of 1:20:558 around the circuit de catalunya
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21641411

    by contrast, last years pole time by lewis was 1:21.707!!!

    it should be noted that the circuit can be modified to be made shorter or longer, but it is still an impressive lap time!
    I wouldn't read too much into lap times during testing. Each team has it's own agenda, and teams are able to use setups and tyres that are not race legal. Hamilton was running short stints of only 5-7 laps at a time on the softest compound tyres.

    If you went off just lap times you would think that Force India is faster than RBR, without paying attention to the fact that Force India was using unmarked test tyres and 5 lap fuel loads while RBR was testing on the two middle compound tyres and running 15-20 lap fuel loads.


    Can't wait until the season starts so we can finally get a clear idea of where each car really stands. So far the RBR, Mercedes, and Lotus look really strong with Ferrari nipping at their heals. McLaren looks to be struggling a bit. Sauber and Force India look like they are solid performers, but not quite up to the performance of the top 5 teams. They may give McLaren some trouble if McLaren doesn't improve. The rest look like backmarkers.





    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post
    Canada and Hungary look strange. I wonder if they will only have one DRS detection zone since the two DRS zones are so close together.
    Last edited by Completely Average; 03-07-2013 at 16:00.

  14. #3763
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    Yeah, testing means nothing. RBR seemed to hold back during testing so only god knows what their engineers have come up with this time. If the Ferrari is just a little slower than the other cars this year then i reckon Alonso will be well within a chance of winning the WDC (in my eyes, the best current driver is out of Alonso and Hamilton) We won't really know of the pace until Albert Park, only 10 days to go now though!

    Edit: As for Hammy's top gear time. He didn't do it in the summer of July at all. The 'live' audience part of Top Gear isn't filmed months in advance, it's done weekly. That's how they talk about such recent events. Also Hamilton didn't make his move clear until the last few races either, as far as I remember.
    I think it was actually Vettel who competed in the hot lap. That and even Lewis' old time on the wet and oily track still wasn't that far of Seb's time as it should've been and Lewis was still faster than Button even though he had the dry
    Last edited by BBK..; 03-08-2013 at 08:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    I wouldn't read too much into lap times during testing. Each team has it's own agenda, and teams are able to use setups and tyres that are not race legal. Hamilton was running short stints of only 5-7 laps at a time on the softest compound tyres.

    If you went off just lap times you would think that Force India is faster than RBR, without paying attention to the fact that Force India was using unmarked test tyres and 5 lap fuel loads while RBR was testing on the two middle compound tyres and running 15-20 lap fuel loads.

    Can't wait until the season starts so we can finally get a clear idea of where each car really stands. So far the RBR, Mercedes, and Lotus look really strong with Ferrari nipping at their heals. McLaren looks to be struggling a bit. Sauber and Force India look like they are solid performers, but not quite up to the performance of the top 5 teams. They may give McLaren some trouble if McLaren doesn't improve. The rest look like backmarkers.

    Canada and Hungary look strange. I wonder if they will only have one DRS detection zone since the two DRS zones are so close together.
    Red Bull were also doing their own thing last year and they started fifth and sixth behind the cars that ended up almost 2 seconds slower than them come years end. of course don't take this as me saying that the times are representative, i never implied otherwise, im simply stating that the car[Mercedes] has pace, how much pace we'll find out in a weeks time. moreso (and what i care more for) is how the representative cars perform over the race day

    all teams focused on the soft compound tyre though, not just hamilton. official statistics from the FIA show 162 more set of the soft tyres were used than any other compound.

    but how do you know the fuel loads? o_O
    it seems weird to dispute my observance of pace then turn around and do almost exactly what i myself did?

    the Sauber and Force India's will be no where near the McLaren's
    Lotus (from what i've seen of the aero package) are the most likely to push the top 3 consistently. Mercedes seem to only work at select race tracks (unless aldo costa has some magic fingers or something )
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  16. #3765
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post

    Edit: As for Hammy's top gear time. He didn't do it in the summer of July at all. The 'live' audience part of Top Gear isn't filmed months in advance, it's done weekly. That's how they talk about such recent events.
    You need to watch the video again. Normally their guests drive the cars the same day as the 'live audience' parts of the show are filmed. ie,. Winter. That's why a few of their guests this year were driving on the track when it was icy and wet. Vettel drove on the same day as the show was filmed when he appeared.

    But Hamilton did his recent laps when Top Gear was not filming anything. He's the only driver ever to have done their laps in the middle of summer. Even in the interview they both admit that he drove his laps months earlier during ideal weather conditions. If you find the Top Gear Online behind the scenes video of Hamilton running the laps you'll hear him say that the sun shining on the track improved his traction and the car itself felt like it had around 5 more horsepower because of the weather.




    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    [FONT=Verdana]

    but how do you know the fuel loads? o_O

    I watched the testing streamed live online.

    It's pretty obvious when a car goes out and runs 5 laps, pits, and puts more fuel in the car, then does the same thing and puts more fuel in the car again after another 5 laps what kind of fuel load they are running. It's also pretty obvious when a car runs 26 laps without pitting what kind of fuel load they are running as well.

    Now, I suppose it's possible that Mercedes had a half tank of fuel sitting in the car and were adding fuel to keep it at a half tank, but I can't imagine why they would do that while running 5-7 lap stints between pitting. More important, I can't believe they were running the fastest times on the track with a half tank or more of fuel on board.

    Mercedes seemed to be working on qualifying setups while RBR was clearly testing long term tyre degradation.




    And as for where I feel the cars are ranked right now, that's not based on lap times from any session, it's based on overall performance of all testing done this year as well as driver comments. Short stints, long runs, everything combined, the RBR, Mercedes, and Lotus were the most consistent in their times and rankings on the time sheets across all testing sessions. Ferrari has done really well too, but showed some weakness on long runs. McLaren have struggled to find pace on the car just about anytime they've done more than 2-3 laps.

    I could of course be wrong, and obviously none of this matters a month after Australia when more development and new parts have been added to the cars, but for the first few races at least I think RBR, Mercedes, and Lotus are very close to each other and are the teams to beat.
    Last edited by Completely Average; 03-08-2013 at 15:50.

  17. #3766
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    Oh really? That must've been a first then. Good old Top Gear UK Bias

    How did you watch the testing though? No testing was broadcasted in the UK. Not on the Sky F1 channel at least. I had to settle for live text feeds during all the testing sessions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post

    How did you watch the testing though? No testing was broadcasted in the UK. Not on the Sky F1 channel at least. I had to settle for live text feeds during all the testing sessions.
    Watched it online. Live streaming video.

    http://www.kakibara.com/watch/live/s...barcelona.html

    Obviously they aren't showing anything now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Not hard to do when you consider Vettel did it on a cold track in March and Hamilton did it on a warm track with ideal conditions in July. Any F1 fan should know what a difference warm tyres makes.





    I wouldn't read too much into lap times during testing. Each team has it's own agenda, and teams are able to use setups and tyres that are not race legal. Hamilton was running short stints of only 5-7 laps at a time on the softest compound tyres.

    If you went off just lap times you would think that Force India is faster than RBR, without paying attention to the fact that Force India was using unmarked test tyres and 5 lap fuel loads while RBR was testing on the two middle compound tyres and running 15-20 lap fuel loads.


    Can't wait until the season starts so we can finally get a clear idea of where each car really stands. So far the RBR, Mercedes, and Lotus look really strong with Ferrari nipping at their heals. McLaren looks to be struggling a bit. Sauber and Force India look like they are solid performers, but not quite up to the performance of the top 5 teams. They may give McLaren some trouble if McLaren doesn't improve. The rest look like backmarkers.







    Canada and Hungary look strange. I wonder if they will only have one DRS detection zone since the two DRS zones are so close together.
    Hamiltons previous lap which was 0.7 of a second off the vettel's was done on a damp track and Vettel's was on a dry track, everyone knew Hamilton was going to be faster than 1:44.7 by a long way if the track was dry.

    http://youtu.be/avoJgpBcHU0
    Last edited by keefy; 03-08-2013 at 21:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Hamiltons previous lap which was 0.7 of a second off the vettel's was done on a damp track and Vettel's was on a dry track, everyone knew Hamilton was going to be faster than 1:44.7 by a long way if the track was dry.

    http://youtu.be/avoJgpBcHU0
    I'm well aware of that. I'm a big Top Gear fan despite the fact that they prefer rubbish cars and believe that the ability to powerslide indicates good handling.

    My point was that Hamilton had virtually ideal conditions all around. Warm track, cool air, just about perfect conditions. Even he said it felt like the car had 5hp more than the first time. (And that has nothing to do with the track being wet.)


    What I would like to see is Vettel and Hamilton both do laps on the same day. Let Vettel do one, then hand the car over to Hamilton, and back to Vettel. Give each one 5 laps and compare the times then.

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    To be honest I thin hamilton was taking the piss with that 5BHP more comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    Watched it online. Live streaming video.

    http://www.kakibara.com/watch/live/s...barcelona.html

    Obviously they aren't showing anything now.
    Damn, I did search but couldn't find one anywhere and just settled for a text feed one in the end. It was for the best as otherwise i wouldn't get any work done


    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Hamiltons previous lap which was 0.7 of a second off the vettel's was done on a damp track and Vettel's was on a dry track, everyone knew Hamilton was going to be faster than 1:44.7 by a long way if the track was dry.

    http://youtu.be/avoJgpBcHU0
    As for Vettels lap, that definitely wasn't done in a cold March, the tree's still have plenty of leafs on them. He raced peak of summer. You can tell not only buy outside but look how red Clarkson is and what the members in the audience are wearing. Definitely not summer attire.

    My opinion is still that Hamilton and Alonso are the best drivers currently in F1. Obviously nothing can take away from the fact that Vettel is a 3 x world champion but that's expected when you have a amazing driver with an even better car than most of the competition. I would've loved to have seen how Vettel would've coped in the Ferrari that Alonso had last year.

    for me the top 5 at the moment would be:
    I can't ever decide between Hamilton or Alonso for number 1
    Vettel 3
    Raikonen 4
    Button (in the wet) 5

    Good old Mark Webber deserves an honourable mention. If it wasn't for RBR clear favouritism in Vettel i honestly think Webber should've won a WDC by now. He deserves it at least.
    Last edited by BBK..; 03-08-2013 at 22:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBettaKnow View Post

    My opinion is still that Hamilton and Alonso are the best drivers currently in F1. Obviously nothing can take away from the fact that Vettel is a 3 x world champion but that's expected when you have a amazing driver with an even better car than most of the competition. I would've loved to have seen how Vettel would've coped in the Ferrari that Alonso had last year.

    for me the top 5 at the moment would be:
    I can't ever decide between Hamilton or Alonso for number 1
    Vettel 3
    Raikonen 4
    Button (in the wet) 5

    I think Vettel is probably the most underrated driver on the track. Here is a man who won 3 WDCs and is still considered by most to be a 'runner up' driver.

    But look closer at what he has actually achieved. Last year he made more on-track passes than any other driver in F1. His first WDC he won despite never leading the points up to the last race and having a 50+ point deficit with just 4 races to go. His first F1 win was in a Toro Rosso in the rain. He's had 8 races in his career where he's started 17th or farther back and finished 4th or higher. In 2008 he managed to race from 17th to 5th at Monoco and then 20th to 8th in Canada, both times in the Toro Rosso.

    Hamilton has never been tested in a 2nd tier race team. He's a good driver, but no one knows how he will handle being in a car that simply cannot win races. Alonso is an underachiever who hasn't won a WDC since the absolute dominance of the Renault team, even when he was in a McLaren that should have won the WDC and paired with a rookie driver that out raced him all season long.

    And yet both are considered by most to be better than 3 time world champion Vettel, who had to work his way into a championship winning car from a backmarker team.

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    Don't get me wrong - Vettel is amazing, anyone who says anything but is a liar, the guy is a triple world champion - no easy feat. And at the moment if anyone is going to take Schumi's record, it'll be him.

    However, IIRC (probably wont) Hamilton's first season he barely, and i mean barely missed out due to the Mclarens gearbox dying in the final race. And when he did eventually get around to winning the WDC the car he had was by no means the quickest car on the grid (admittedly, he won the WDC very luckily as it came down to the last lap of Sao Paulo i think) All whilst having to deal with Alonso as your team mate. If Hammy had a reliable car for the last few seasons and if Mclaren could actually get some semi decent pitstops going Hamilton would at least have 2 WDCs under his belt. I'd be willing to bet my home on it.

    I'm not saying Vettel has had it easy though, was it one of the last races he thought from the back of the grid? It just seems RBR have much higher reliability than everyone else and they've got one of the most talented drivers on the grid in one of the better designed cars on the grid. That is a recipe for good results.

    I think your point about Hamilton being in a 2nd tier team is what excites me so much this coming season. I'm not sure how many people would walk away from their team that brought them into the game, been with them for his entire career and hard arguably the fastest car at the back end of the season and leave to join a team who was struggling to keep within a second or two of qualifying pace. This really is going to be the biggest test of his career so far. If he can get a podium throughout the season i'm sure he will put all of those who were doubting his move (me included, i think it's the worst thing he could've done) to understand why he did it. Though i think Mercedes are focusing on the 2014 season more, their new engine sounds immense for that and with Paddy Lowe coming in (though maybe replacing Ross Brawn) Mercedes should be on the path to a successful year.

    Couldn't agree more though about Alonso, i don't understand why he hasn't won more than me has. He is such a good driver especially defensively i just don't understand why it wont work for him. When he is on point, i don't think anyone can touch his full race pace. Vettel maybe quicker over 1 lap but Alonso is just Mr Consistent. If Ferrari give him a decent car this year, it could be his for the taking.

    We'll find out where everyone more or less stands by practice and qualifying sessions. Will Hamilton make it into the final Qualifying session, i don't think he will. I am also interested to see how Perez is going to do in the McLaren, he had a good drive last year!

    All i know is I can;t wait for Sunday!

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    SKy are to jack up prices for F1 channel. The F1 channel will become part of the Sports pack which is catered to footballists (yawn) and to an F1 fan which is 2 races per month not worth the fee they ask.

    However if you already have the HD pack you will coninue to receive the channel for the foreseeable future.
    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/0...now-tv-stream/
    Last edited by keefy; 03-11-2013 at 14:17.

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    That is ridiculous. I'd happily pay just 10 a month for just access to the F1 channel. Currently we have the HD pack so i think we are ok for the rest of the season at least.
    Dirty move though.
    Said it before and i'd say it again, BBC had the best F1 coverage for a few years. Bernie I Want More $#@!ing Money Ecclestone, this guy is a chump

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PSU

Playstation Universe

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