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  1. #4326
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    Was LEwis fault if you ask me that collision with Bottas.
    Last edited by keefy; 11-25-2013 at 17:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    As for Max Chilton, he may have come last in the championship but he will forever been in the history books now, I mean come on 19 race finishes in a year or rather finishing an entire season? That has never been done in the history of F1, I can't see him keeping his spot though as he's pretty slow.
    I think it has, and fairly recently. not sure exactly when, but I think it has been done.

    edit/

    kimi did it in 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Was LEwis fault if you ask me that collision with Bottas.
    it was, he didn't use his mirrors once down the back straight. it's the one part on the entire track where drivers should be looking in their mirrors at some point, due to where the exit of the pit is.
    Last edited by Surebrec; 11-25-2013 at 19:28.
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  3. #4328
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    Ah you're right, Kimi was the first to do it last year, but Max was the first Rookie to do it and second person ever.

  4. #4329
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    Well him finishing every race got his team lots of data to work with and improve the car and his performance. He has a brother in the WTCC.
    Last edited by keefy; 11-25-2013 at 23:25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Well him finishing every race got his team lots of data to work with and improve the car and his performance. He has a brother in the WTCC.
    Yeah Tom Chilton his name is, they look quite similar lol

    And I agree I think it was Lewis fault, but did anybody else think that had Webber not come in for his stop the same lap Vettel did when they had not had a chance to get the tires out we just might have seen a different result?
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  6. #4331
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    Not really, Mark stopped about a second behind him, add on a few more seconds and he probably would've been about 7 or 8 seconds ahead, that wouldn't be anywhere near close enough for him to win.

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    You never know though, Red Bull may have asked Seb to hold station if Webber was in the lead, could have held Alonso up just enough for Webber to go round a few more laps and build just enough gap! Whether Vettel would have listened is another story but you never know....
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  8. #4333
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    Alonso pitted at the same time as Webber anyway so it still wouldn't have made a difference. Vettel left the pits before Alonso entered so the result wouldn't have changed anyway. Shame though as I wanted Webber to win his final race.

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    Yeah so did I, but at least he ended up on the podium which is better than only finishing in the points! Got some stats here from Autosport on Webber's career I thought where worth sharing:

    FAREWELL MARK WEBBER

    As Mark Webber waves goodbye to Formula 1 and heads back to sportscars, here is where his final grand prix placed him in the record books:

    • He finished his F1 career with his 42nd podium finish, matching Damon Hill at 18th on the all-time spot.

    • Although twice a winner at Interlagos, his second place this year meant his F1 stint ended with a 30-race winless streak, since Silverstone 2012.

    • Qualifying fourth was a hint that Webber wouldn't win; all his victories have come from front-row starts.

    • This year Webber took five second places but no wins. The record for podiums without victories in a single season is Francois Cevert's six in 1973. Patrick Depailler matched Webber's tally of five in 1976.
    The 11th fastest race lap of Webber's career was Spa 2011; for Moss it was Nurburgring 1958
    The 11th fastest race lap of Webber's career was Spa 2011; for Moss it was Nurburgring 1958 LAT

    • Webber scored his 19th fastest race lap, the same tally as Stirling Moss, Ayrton Senna and Damon Hill, putting him equal 13th in the all-time rankings.

    • Webber is the only driver on nine race wins in the F1 record books. That's the 33rd highest win tally of all time, slotting in behind James Hunt, Ronnie Peterson, Jody Scheckter and Gerhard Berger's 10 victories, and ahead of Jacky Ickx and Denny Hulme on eight.
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    Some nice stats there. It's a shame he narrowly missed out on being a WDC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    Alonso is my driver of the year, has been for the last few years running - he's just that good even if I don't really like the guy but his sentiments at the interview with the BBC was exactly what I've been vocalling all year round! Vettel will never be a great or a legend until he can prove to others that he can race in a car that shouldn't be at the front and he can get it up there regularly.
    He already has, despite what deniers like you try to claim.

    Alonso can do it,
    No, he really can't.

    Take the 2008 season for example. He was driving the Renault, a car that was quite similar to the current Lotus in performance, and Alonso could only manage 3 podiums the entire year with it. And one of those podiums came as a result of the infamous "Crashgate" scandal.

    In fact, in 2008 the only reason Alonso in his #4 Renault beat Vettel in the #7 Toro Rosso was because of the 4 mechanical DNFs in the first 4 races and then Crashgate. Take away Alonso's Crashgate win and Vettel outperformed him in the significantly slower Toro Rosso.

    The Toro Rosso at the time was a regular in the top 10 back then
    Now you're just lying.

    Vettel's teammate only managed to get the Toro Rosso into the top 10 twice the entire season. That's not "regular" by any rational definition of the word. Vettel had 6 mechanical DNFs in 18 races, 33 percent of the time his car was on the track it broke, and you think that is a "regular" top 10 car?

    2 cars X 18 races = 36 finishes
    12 top 10 finishes = 33% in the top 10

    You live in a strange alternate reality of you think only making a top 10 finish 1 in every 3 races is a "regular top 10 car".



    and in the rain anything can happen and did, but that was his only high scoring points then
    You know, I've grown up watching F1. I still remember the 6 wheel Tyrrell running around the track. In all of the decades that I've watched F1 there has always been a constant....

    Rain takes any aerodynamic advantage away from the chassis and it's the DRIVERS that make all of the difference.

    Schumacher was known as the regemeister (Rainmaster) because of his consistently great driving in the rain. In fact, most of the F1 greats are remembered as greats largely because of their ability to drive in the rain.

    But Vettel comes along and drives magnificently in the rain and some kid suddenly throws all that history out of the window and claims "anything can happen in the rain" not even realizing that you are immediately discounting every great rain drivers performance with that claim.

    I'll bet the late Ayrton Senna would laugh in your face if he heard you make such a claim.






    Agreed about Lewis, he is without doubt the fastest driver on the grid by a looooooong shot
    Then why did he get beat by Button with both driving the same car in 2011? And it wasn't even close, Hamilton was 43 points behind Button.


    the problem is is that Mercedes' tyre situation exacerbated his driving style and that's to go mega quick at the expense of tyre management, at McLaren he never had this problem as they've always been very slow to generate heat into the tyres meaning that when he did go all out the tyres would get to his operating window when required and didn't go beyond. I hope Mercedes sort that one out.
    That's a really interesting way of trying to excuse the obvious.

    Lewis Hamilton, driving the second best car on the grid, only managed 5 podiums and only ONE win in an entire season. He got beat in the WDC by Alonso driving a lesser car than the Mercedes. Thankfully Kimi did not compete in the final two races or he would have lost to Kimi in a lesser car than the Mercedes as well.



    Let's see you judge Hamilton by the same measure you apply to Vettel. When has Hamilton EVER had anything other than one of the top 3 cars on the grid? You want to talk about someone who needs to prove something, throw Hamilton in that Toro Rosso and let's see if he can win with it.
    Last edited by Completely Average; 11-27-2013 at 03:32.

  12. #4337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    He already has, despite what deniers like you try to claim.



    No, he really can't.

    Take the 2008 season for example. He was driving the Renault, a car that was quite similar to the current Lotus in performance, and Alonso could only manage 3 podiums the entire year with it. And one of those podiums came as a result of the infamous "Crashgate" scandal.

    In fact, in 2008 the only reason Alonso in his #4 Renault beat Vettel in the #7 Toro Rosso was because of the 4 mechanical DNFs in the first 4 races and then Crashgate. Take away Alonso's Crashgate win and Vettel outperformed him in the significantly slower Toro Rosso.



    Now you're just lying.

    Vettel's teammate only managed to get the Toro Rosso into the top 10 twice the entire season. That's not "regular" by any rational definition of the word. Vettel had 6 mechanical DNFs in 18 races, 33 percent of the time his car was on the track it broke, and you think that is a "regular" top 10 car?

    2 cars X 18 races = 36 finishes
    12 top 10 finishes = 33% in the top 10

    You live in a strange alternate reality of you think only making a top 10 finish 1 in every 3 races is a "regular top 10 car".





    You know, I've grown up watching F1. I still remember the 6 wheel Tyrrell running around the track. In all of the decades that I've watched F1 there has always been a constant....

    Rain takes any aerodynamic advantage away from the chassis and it's the DRIVERS that make all of the difference.

    Schumacher was known as the regemeister (Rainmaster) because of his consistently great driving in the rain. In fact, most of the F1 greats are remembered as greats largely because of their ability to drive in the rain.

    But Vettel comes along and drives magnificently in the rain and some kid suddenly throws all that history out of the window and claims "anything can happen in the rain" not even realizing that you are immediately discounting every great rain drivers performance with that claim.

    I'll bet the late Ayrton Senna would laugh in your face if he heard you make such a claim.








    Then why did he get beat by Button with both driving the same car in 2011? And it wasn't even close, Hamilton was 43 points behind Button.




    That's a really interesting way of trying to excuse the obvious.

    Lewis Hamilton, driving the second best car on the grid, only managed 5 podiums and only ONE win in an entire season. He got beat in the WDC by Alonso driving a lesser car than the Mercedes. Thankfully Kimi did not compete in the final two races or he would have lost to Kimi in a lesser car than the Mercedes as well.



    Let's see you judge Hamilton by the same measure you apply to Vettel. When has Hamilton EVER had anything other than one of the top 3 cars on the grid? You want to talk about someone who needs to prove something, throw Hamilton in that Toro Rosso and let's see if he can win with it.

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  13. #4338
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    Uh oh. I think Surebrec has given up.

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    I'm not being funny but he does seem to keep holding on the the fact that Vettel won with a Torro Rosso in the rain, big woop Vettel is not the only driver in the history of Formula 1 to score a win or very good result in a fairly decent or lesser car!
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  15. #4340
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    Talk about flogging a dead horse.
    Just when you think its all over, it isnt.
    Last edited by keefy; 11-27-2013 at 12:27.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Talk about flogging a dead horse.
    Just when you think its all over, it isnt.
    Pretty much, I don't doubt Vettel's talent but just because he won in a Torro Rosso doesn't make him god of F1. I like the bloke and think he's an excellent driver but there are others in the field who deserve a lot of credit for the skills they have!
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    If only we could get Alonso to do the top gear test track at least it's the drivers in the same cars.

    Seriously though, I think Alonso is the most complete driver on the grid.

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    Nice to see a typical Maldonado accident on there
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  19. #4344
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    Haha, it's not a grand prix until Maldonado crashes into someone. Lewis could've won the last season had it not been for a few problems that weren't actually his fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    Uh oh. I think Surebrec has given up.
    I've said everything I need to say, I'm not into the habit of repeating myself. nothing he has said has brought anything new to the discussion. he's like the disney parade, same thing comes around, same time every week.
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  21. #4346
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    Yeah, there seems to be an unanimous agreement in this thread and I woildn't say you are on the opposite side of it

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    Nice to see Rosberg has already got his goal for next year:

    Nico Rosberg has set his sights on finishing ahead of Mercedes team-mate Lewis Hamilton in the 2014 Formula 1 championship.

    The German had a strong season for Mercedes in 2013, winning the Monaco and British Grands Prix, but finished 18 points behind his team-mate.

    Although Hamilton threatened to gain the upper-hand in the build-up to the August break, Rosberg had a strong start and finish to the year and ended up with the better result in six of the last nine races this season.

    Even though he finished a career-best sixth in the championship and led more laps than any driver other than Sebastian Vettel, he still believes there is more to come.

    "I'm not happy, but I am pleased with this season," Rosberg told AUTOSPORT when asked about his performance relative to Hamilton. "I had some great ups but also a few downs.

    "My goal was to improve since last year, which worked out fine for me with two wins.

    "But with a cleaner season next year, I want to stay in front of my team-mate on points.

    "If we want to become the best, we need to be more consistent next year, but I am sure that we are able to sort this out.

    "We have a really strong team now and great technical people joined us."

    Source: Autosport
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    Rosberg impressed me this year. I thought Lewis would've beaten him by more. Next year will be his true test thought as Lewis might be more comfortable. These two have been team mates quite a lot in the past though.

    What really impressed me was that clearly Schumacher had a lot of pace as he did quite well compared to Rosberg.

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    Yeah shame his comeback was not a bit better than it deserved to be really!
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    Agreed. Imagine if he got put in a truly competitive car? That would've been amazing.

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