Matters of opinion

[kokoriet]

To some extent I agree with the idea that "opinion's can't be wrong" but at the same time it baffles me. My GF is stumped too and I'm making this thread to see what others think :P

A jar contains 300 beans and a person has the opinion it contains 100. Doesn't that mean they had the wrong opinion?

If Person A believes that person B is a murderer and God comes down, plays out the entirety of person B's life proving their innocence - how does that not show that person A's opinion was entirely false?

If Person C believes that God would never harm anything and God prances along and smites him with a bolt of lightning, wasn't his opinion wrong?

If you had the opinion that I stole your mobile phone and I said "No, look in your damn pocket" and lo behold it was there, did you not have the wrong opinion?


There are no contradictions in reality. Reality simply is. Opinions and beliefs are how we perceive reality. Ultimately certain beliefs will eventually be proven to be true and others false.
You get all these instances where people can shrug an argument or dismiss others saying "It's just my opinion, it can't be wrong" yet I think of situations like these and can't help but think otherwise.

[Cyn]

I think you are confusing the matter.

An opinion is just a personal belief on grounds insufficient for certainty, whereas a belief on grounds sufficent for certainty is a fact.
The moment a conclusion can be made it is no longer an opinion. His opinion was the jar contained 100, which is fine. The moment he knows that the jar doesn't hold 100, but 300, he wouldn't still hold his previous opinion.

[Gilly3]

opinions and belief are slightly different. i think the guy above me pointed it out quite well.

[richie217]

As stated above once a opinion is proven or disproved it becomes fact or fiction. However I know some people that still argue their opinion is correct after it has been proven false.

[scottscorpion]

people believe that thier opinion is correct at all times because they are making a judgement to the best of there knowledge....at the time they are always correct...but untill more knowledge is obtained most opinions are wrong...we just believe them to be right...well thats my opinion on the thread

[Phyx06]

So, "Justice" is the same thing?

[zoidy84]

yeah all of your examples are proved by fact. An opinion can only remain that of such for an arguement or discussion.

So for example, take the Miss California incident recently, her opinion is that gay marriage should not be allowed. There is no right or wrong answer!

[MiNiMaL_sAnItY]

All posts in this thread are opinions. Including this one. And i'm captain obvious, nice to meet you!

[rbrtchng]

Opinion is misinterpreted here.

I don't think facts are opinion-able. Opinion is more like a personal choice in a subjective matter.

[kokoriet]

yeah all of your examples are proved by fact. An opinion can only remain that of such for an arguement or discussion.

As stated above once a opinion is proven or disproved it becomes fact or fiction.

Exactly, once an opinion is proved or disproved you find out which was right and which was wrong don't you?

I think you are confusing the matter.

An opinion is just a personal belief on grounds insufficient for certainty, whereas a belief on grounds sufficent for certainty is a fact.
The moment a conclusion can be made it is no longer an opinion. His opinion was the jar contained 100, which is fine. The moment he knows that the jar doesn't hold 100, but 300, he wouldn't still hold his previous opinion.

Of course I'm confusing the matter - I'm confused!

Are you saying that a belief can't be called an opinion if they based on something that can be eventually proven as a fact?

I suppose this would make sense, it would simply mean that people have been incorrectly using the term opinion for their arguments.

[Xraein]

I like it how people create troubles about others opinions. Seriously everyone has a different point of view. Respect it or get over it.

There are persons who like to make everyone agrees with 'em no matter what, because they think they're always RIGHT. And if you disagree, they start an argument and crap.
Sometimes I have to tell this kind of persons 'you're right' but I don't really mean it, just to make 'em stop nagging blah blah blah crap kind of talk. I don't want waste my time with 'em.

[zoidy84]

Are you saying that a belief can't be called an opinion if they based on something that can be eventually proven as a fact?

I suppose this would make sense, it would simply mean that people have been incorrectly using the term opinion for their arguments.

i guess you're right about that. I mean at some stage, lets say - and i'm in now way trying to get started seriously about this - the Religion debate. So everyone at the moment has an opinion on it, but if one day there is 100% concrete proof either way, then i guess a lot of people's opinion's will be the wrong opinion.

So i guess then that its simple terminology as to when to use the word opinion. I mean, if in the previous example, after the proof had come out yet i stuck to my guns about my opinion, surely then my opinion would be wrong.

hmm i dunno!

[SpyroViper]

i guess you're right about that. I mean at some stage, lets say - and i'm in now way trying to get started seriously about this - the Religion debate. So everyone at the moment has an opinion on it, but if one day there is 100% concrete proof either way, then i guess a lot of people's opinion's will be the wrong opinion.

So i guess then that its simple terminology as to when to use the word opinion. I mean, if in the previous example, after the proof had come out yet i stuck to my guns about my opinion, surely then my opinion would be wrong.

hmm i dunno!

Well I think there is already concrete proof that we atheists are right

Where was GOD when the Romans threw the Christians to the Lions?

Though saying that he apparently (IF... it happend) didn't bother to save his own son, so either way he's a bit of an a****le

[triggap]

I think the distinction you should look at is whether or not an opinion or belief is true or false, instead of wrong or right.

Opinions, in my opinion (see what I did there? lol), are frames of mind on a subject based on a collection of supporting thoughts, possibly facts or evidences or the lack thereof.

Like your examples. A man might say something but another person might say "no, it happened like this" so a man's opinion or belief on a subject matter can change with the more added facts since his initial one was either proven false or incomplete.

All your examples basically just deal with the dimension of information and knowledge so they're just cases of true or false.

Wrong or right comes in when you add morality into opinions. That's when it gets tougher to distinging whether opinions or wrong or right.

Think about abortion. Many people have strong beliefs and opinions about the subject matter but ultimately it's a question of how they feel about the subject; morality and faith and all that drawn in to the subject making it impossible to draw the line between who's right and who's wrong.

Wrong is too broad and I think it carries a connotation of implication that a person is really.. wrong in whatever he/she is saying. Think about how people react when you tell them they are wrong. They can go nuts and dig in deeper into their thoughts and try to fight you. As opposed to when you tell them "well, that's not quite all true" or something by which chances are higher that they'll stand around and listen.

[kokoriet]

I think the distinction you should look at is whether or not an opinion or belief is true or false, instead of wrong or right.

That's pretty much semantics though. True/false, right/wrong, correct/ incorrect, informed/misinformed. They're all equally interchangeable.

Wrong is too broad and I think it carries a connotation of implication that a person is really.. wrong in whatever he/she is saying. Think about how people react when you tell them they are wrong. They can go nuts and dig in deeper into their thoughts and try to fight you. As opposed to when you tell them "well, that's not quite all true" or something by which chances are higher that they'll stand around and listen.

I don't disagree but there are times when one should never sugarcoat their words. There are many instances where a person needs to be told they are wrong in as harsh a manner as possible. The consequences of their acting on a false opinion may just be too horrendous to risk.

[triggap]

That's pretty much semantics though. True/false, right/wrong, correct/ incorrect, informed/misinformed. They're all equally interchangeable.


I don't disagree but there are times when one should never sugarcoat their words. There are many instances where a person needs to be told they are wrong in as harsh a manner as possible. The consequences of their acting on a false opinion may just be too horrendous to risk.

Bolded point can be argued. I really don't see right/wrong being interchangeable with informed/misinformed. A person can have all the right facts, be very "informed" yet come to a completely different conclusion as the next guy.

A learned scholar can have all the knowledge about theology and say he believes a God doesn't exist whereas the pope probably has all the same information and believes God doesn't exist.

In that case both parties are informed yet some would call either ones wrong or right.

In a lot of cases, unless back by solid facts or indisputable evidence, right/wrong is just another opinion and I believe that's the general usage. I think this person is wrong or this person is right is very different from what this person is saying is true or that statement is false. True or false on the other hand is more solid and based on facts. You can call it semantics but then people can boil down almost anything into semantics lol

Arguments where people fight about who's right or wrong take forever 'cause belief and conviction and morality and pride can be drawn into it. Watch a student make a false statement in class and he can be rebutted with a more truthful, factual statement for correction.

I agree though that people should never sugarcoat their words if they can help it and especially if the situation calls for it. But I'm a diplomatic guy usually so I'll pick the route that has a higher chance of getting a person to stop and consider what I'm saying. Telling them that they're flat out wrong might work for some but it just puts a lot of people on the defensive.

[SharkOutofWater]

Opinion as stated above should only be used for subjective matters.

Example: I personally think FFVII wasnt that good.

While that opinion goes against what the majority think, and might cause some controversy/arguing, I am perfectly entitled to that opinion as everyone is going to have different likes/dislikes.

Same as any religion/belief. That is all they are: opinions, as there is no concrete evidence that totally proves any of the religions, so none of them can be 100% correct.

Again, as has been stated above, if I have an opinion about something that can be proven right (or wrong) then it isnt an opinion anymore.

[SpyroViper]

Opinion as stated above should only be used for subjective matters.

Example: I personally think FFVII wasnt that good.

While that opinion goes against what the majority think, and might cause some controversy/arguing, I am perfectly entitled to that opinion as everyone is going to have different likes/dislikes.

Same as any religion/belief. That is all they are: opinions, as there is no concrete evidence that totally proves any of the religions, so none of them can be 100% correct.

Again, as has been stated above, if I have an opinion about something that can be proven right (or wrong) then it isnt an opinion anymore.

Don't worry, I thought FFVII was s*** too!

Loving the new sig btw.

[kokoriet]

informed/misinformed

Ack, I thought I deleted that sorry :P I realized it wouldn't work 2 seconds after I wrote it. My mistake

In a lot of cases, unless back by solid facts or indisputable evidence, right/wrong is just another opinion and I believe that's the general usage. I think this person is wrong or this person is right is very different from what this person is saying is true or that statement is false. True or false on the other hand is more solid and based on facts.

Which is why I'm only wanting to discuss cases backed by solid facts or events where eventually an ultimate conclusion will arise

You can call it semantics but then people can boil down almost anything into semantics lol

True, but TBH I see absolutely zero difference between saying something is right/correct/true and wrong/incorrect/false.

[Xelis]

Opinions & beliefs are matters based on a persons perception.

Example: Film, musical or gaming tastes are all opinionated.

Example 2: Religion is belief based.

Both are completely personal choices, there's no concrete answer (fact) for either example.


Once a fact is brought upon something, a person can still hold an opinion of it, but they would know whether they're right or wrong, this is where stubborness comes into play.

Example: Science, to be more precise, The Big Bang, there is stacks of evidence towards the theory yet people still have their own view, opinion, of it.

Example 2: I know my table is made of wood, but someone could hold a belief it was made of fairy dust.

[Je Hones]

Yeah, people don't like you saying their opinions are wrong. You can question their rationality, motive, state of mind etc. though. Or if they're just regurgitating what they heard some idiot on the TV say because they can't form an opinion of their own.

It doesn't make them wrong if those factors I mentioned affect the opinion, but it does make that opinion less credible, reliable and accurate.

[SharkOutofWater]

Ack, I thought I deleted that sorry :P I realized it wouldn't work 2 seconds after I wrote it. My mistake


Which is why I'm only wanting to discuss cases backed by solid facts or events where eventually an ultimate conclusion will arise


True, but TBH I see absolutely zero difference between saying something is right/correct/true and wrong/incorrect/false.

Because one has a positive result, and the other has a very negative conatation (sp?).

Its the same as raising a kid. If you always praise them for good things instead of only punishing them for bad things, the kid will grow up different. The 2 approachs will result in totally different results.

I will use a dog as an example:

A dog does a trick right, you give him a treat, but if he does the trick wrong, he gets nothing. The dog will soon figure out that the trick gets him food.

OptionB: A dog does a trick right, and you pet him, but if he does the trick wrong you give him a wallop accross the nose. The dog soon figures out that he doesnt like getting punished and decided not to do the trick at all, and even if you go to pet him, he will shy away as if you were going to hit him.

[SpyroViper]

Opinions & beliefs are matters based on a persons perception.

Example: Film, musical or gaming tastes are all opinionated.

Example 2: Religion is belief based.

Both are completely personal choices, there's no concrete answer (fact) for either example.


Once a fact is brought upon something, a person can still hold an opinion of it, but they would know whether they're right or wrong, this is where stubborness comes into play.

Example: Science, to be more precise, The Big Bang, there is stacks of evidence towards the theory yet people still have their own view, opinion, of it.

Example 2: I know my table is made of wood, but someone could hold a belief it was made of fairy dust.

But how can you have an opinion on what is actually proven to be correct? Surely people would then simply be wrong but are too ignorent to realise it..

[dc89]

At work above my desk we have a sign that says.... Everyone Is Entitled To My Opinion.

I find it quite funny. ">.<

[SharkOutofWater]

But how can you have an opinion on what is actually proven to be correct? Surely people would then simply be wrong but are too ignorent to realise it..

but while there is evidence to prove it, it cant be 100% proven, so there are always going to be opinions that it is false.

There is pretty solid evidence that we evolved from apes but that doesnt mean everyone is going to believe it, as it cant actually be 100% proven, and there is also evidence to back up the religion, so both sides have some form of case in the matter

(trying to show both sides so it doesnt turn into a religious debate)