Thoughts concerning the NextBox's Backwards Compatibility

[Rapture]

I've been thinking about this lately. Take a look at Sony for instance, what do you see? Tons of BC. Now look at the 360, sure, it has some BC, but it's emulated and only a small portion of the game are supported.

This is a silly idea, only some of the game supported. Even then, only a few are emulated well enough to run the same as they would on the XBox.

Basically, for the NextBox, I think MS should either go the full distance, or not even try. No half-assing the subject.

Now, I would love if the NextBox had BC for the 360 while the original XBox can be negligible. BC can only benefit the players, so if MS can, why not include it? But if they simply cannot, then I hope they don't even bother trying.

Anyways, I'm not really sure what my direct point it, I just felt like typing this and maybe offering some form of discussion.

[taxman]

I took a look at PS3 and cant find that option to play PS2 games.

Dont you know anything about the original Xbox? Most components were owned by 3rd party developers like Nvidia. The Xbox was losing money for every one sold because 3rd party was fleecing MS. That was why they dropped the xbox immediately. They couldnt do HW BC because they dont own the architecture. So they went s/w and have supported most of the hit games. Look at Sony, they dropped HW BC even when they owned the tech.

Since MS owns all the tech inside the 360, 2 things will not happen as it it did with the Xbox. Support for the 360 will not stop even after the release of the "nextbox" and they will/can have full BC of the 360 games in the nextbox.

[tmacfan4321]

I don't understand the Sony comment, at all. The only PS3 console with full BC was the $600 60GB model at launch.

[A7MAD]

I think the OP's entire argument has been negated by the mere fact Sony dropped their own PS2 emulation and never allowed gamers a way in after the original $1,000AUD sku.

Like Sony has been telling PS3 gamers I tell unto you all; if you want the best B/C buy the original XBOX or PS2.

[Silver&black_Attack]

Microsoft's way of handling BC has been fine with me, most big name popular games are supported.
There are a few games that i wish were BC, but i can't complain too much.
Sony has dropped BC all together, so obviously Microsoft's way of doing it is superior at this point.

[F34R]

I've been thinking about this lately. Take a look at Sony for instance, what do you see? Tons of BC. Now look at the 360, sure, it has some BC, but it's emulated and only a small portion of the game are supported.

This is a silly idea, only some of the game supported. Even then, only a few are emulated well enough to run the same as they would on the XBox.

Basically, for the NextBox, I think MS should either go the full distance, or not even try. No half-assing the subject.

Now, I would love if the NextBox had BC for the 360 while the original XBox can be negligible. BC can only benefit the players, so if MS can, why not include it? But if they simply cannot, then I hope they don't even bother trying.

Anyways, I'm not really sure what my direct point it, I just felt like typing this and maybe offering some form of discussion.

This post defines irony. The 360 has 478 games that are backwards compatible, that can be played on any console with a HDD.

[Rapture]

The PS2 had full BC, and early PS3 models did as well. Really, this topic isn't about that anyways.

[F34R]

The PS2 had full BC, and early PS3 models did as well. Really, this topic isn't about that anyways.

Explain what it is about then. It seems you just wanted to rip Microsoft for not having backwards compatibility while giving Sony a free pass?

[Rapture]

Explain what it is about then. It seems you just wanted to rip Microsoft for not having backwards compatibility while giving Sony a free pass?

It's obviously about the Nextbox (or 720, whatever you want to call it) having full BC or not. I was just using the PS3 as a reference since the 60GB models has full BC up to two gens ago. Which IMO is impressive. I'd like to see the same of the Nextbox if possible.

[Silver&black_Attack]

The PS2 had full BC, and early PS3 models did as well. Really, this topic isn't about that anyways.

Is there an original Xbox game in particular that you wish was BC on the 360?
The 360 doesn't have full BC, but it's the next best thing, it supports a big list of games and almost any popular game is supported.

I think there is chance that the next Xbox will handle it in a different way since they have patents on the 360 parts.

[Rapture]

Is there an original Xbox game in particular that you wish was BC on the 360?
The 360 doesn't have full BC, but it's the next best thing, it supports a big list of games and almost any popular game is supported.

I think there is chance that the next Xbox will handle it in a different way since they have patents on the 360 parts.

None I can think of. All my original XBox games work on my 360, thankfully.

Secondly, I hope so. I can already see myself popping in Oblivion or something into my future 720. lol

[Kydosan]

I've been thinking about this lately. Take a look at Sony for instance, what do you see? Tons of BC. Now look at the 360, sure, it has some BC, but it's emulated

Emulated BC allows for proper upscaling, resulting in a much crisper, HD image, rather than a resampled SD image.

and only a small portion of the game are supported.

I don't know which games aren't on the BC list, but all the games I've bothered to play on it are.

Would be nice to see BC in the next console though, although if it's another step up in resolution I hope they do it through emulation again, rather than a hardware solution which will result in low res resampling.

[sainraja]

Explain what it is about then. It seems you just wanted to rip Microsoft for not having backwards compatibility while giving Sony a free pass?

I'll try. The newer models of the PS3 do not have full backwards compatibility. Why is that?

Because Sony removed it BUT the fact is, Sony was able to provide full backwards compatibility - and so has Nintendo.

I think I know why Microsoft hasn't been able to and I think it's a fair reason but Microsoft never had full backwards compatibility available for the 360.

I think he is wondering if Microsoft will be able to provide full b/c with the next one. I believe they can, since they own the components that are inside the 360. Including full b/c to the original box day one could have been costly.

Sony can do what Microsoft is - software emulate every game but that takes time. To get every game to work that is.

EDIT: Someone already explained about how the next most likely will be able to.....I'll leave my post as is but I am kind of repeating what has been said about that.

[taxman]

I took a look at PS3 and cant find that option to play PS2 games.

Dont you know anything about the original Xbox? Most components were owned by 3rd party developers like Nvidia. The Xbox was losing money for every one sold because 3rd party was fleecing MS. That was why they dropped the xbox immediately. They couldnt do HW BC because they dont own the architecture. So they went s/w and have supported most of the hit games. Look at Sony, they dropped HW BC even when they owned the tech.

Since MS owns all the tech inside the 360, 2 things will not happen as it it did with the Xbox. Support for the 360 will not stop even after the release of the "nextbox" and they will/can have full BC of the 360 games in the nextbox.

[Sparc]

It's obviously about the Nextbox (or 720, whatever you want to call it) having full BC or not. I was just using the PS3 as a reference since the 60GB models has full BC up to two gens ago. Which IMO is impressive. I'd like to see the same of the Nextbox if possible.

Just saying Hi from Europe, small continent outside of the US. Just like to say that the 650 million of us who live here NEVER had any PS3 model, 60GB included, that had full BC. Even at launch. The difference was that Sony stated upfront that BC would be available - that was one of their selling points over the 360. MS never claimed any BC but in the end made 500 games from the original backwards compatible.

However, I do think your post - had you not painted Sony to be perfect - has merit because I too would like some assurances this time round that this generation games will be largely BC on the next generation of console. At least for that console's first two years (as the next generation progresses and they, inevitably, bring out updated models then at some point I think it's reasonable for BC to take a back seat - but not at the beginning)

[sainraja]

I think when he was referring to Sony, he was only trying to point out that Sony was able to provide full backwards compatibility. They removed components to cut-down costs - since they were using some hardware emulation and some software.

Going by this post, we all know why Microsoft wasn't able to do that day one. They did not have rights to the components inside the Xbox. To license that for the 360 could have been very costly. I am not sure if Microsoft could have bought license for the components later but that probably would have been silly.

[coolguy]

if the next xbox video card is made by ATI. then it will be able to play 360 games

[Sparc]

I think when he was referring to Sony, he was only trying to point out that Sony was able to provide full backwards compatibility. They removed components to cut-down costs - since they were using some hardware emulation and some software.

Yup, but people not in Europe don't seem to remember that by removing those components and emulating it the list of supported titles was greatly reduced (and even then they were listed with stars to show you how bc they actually were). Eight months into the gen in Europe and all bc was removed.

However, I think the wider debate really is whether or not bc really IS important (irrespective of the platform). I think I vote for it being important for the first 12 months to 2 years of the new generation but obviously as each generation progresses and the libraries increase the less important it is to play the previous generation's games.

[MiNiMaL_sAnItY]

I think that the main problem for MS this gen was switching from nvidia from last gen to ATI this gen for graphics chipset which made backwards compatibility tough to code. I dont think they will have much problem next gen if they are sticking with ATI graphics though.

[Dennis Dyack]

I'm really confused here.

[sainraja]

Yup, but people not in Europe don't seem to remember that by removing those components and emulating it the list of supported titles was greatly reduced (and even then they were listed with stars to show you how bc they actually were). Eight months into the gen in Europe and all bc was removed.

However, I think the wider debate really is whether or not bc really IS important (irrespective of the platform). I think I vote for it being important for the first 12 months to 2 years of the new generation but obviously as each generation progresses and the libraries increase the less important it is to play the previous generation's games.

Yeah, for someone like me, it is important. I like to go back to older games time to time - for nostalgic reasons but still it's good to go back sometimes but you have a point with saying that as the library grows it becomes less important for the console to play the older games. It's a nice thing to have though...

[J3ff3]

Just saying Hi from Europe, a small town just outside of the US.

mate, fixed it for you - don't big us up - tell it like it is

I think when he was referring to Sony, he was only trying to point out that Sony was able to provide full backwards compatibility. They removed components to cut-down costs - since they were using some hardware emulation and some software.

Going by this post, we all know why Microsoft wasn't able to do that day one. They did not have rights to the components inside the Xbox. To license that for the 360 could have been very costly. I am not sure if Microsoft could have bought license for the components later but that probably would have been silly.

they both dropped full BC because of cost. MS did it before launch, Sony after. So which one over promised and under delivered? Not sure why MS is the main focus of this attack.

to be honest, I just want assurances that that new racing wheel will be compatible with a new system. they are expensive.

[Cavanaugh]

If we can get BC, I think everyone will be happy. If we can't, not everyone will be happy. Whatever happens, it is what it is, and we will survive.

If it comes down to it, just keep your Xbox 360. By that time, you won't get nearly a dime for trading it in.

[Dennis Dyack]

they both dropped full BC because of cost. MS did it before launch, Sony after. So which one over promised and under delivered? Not sure why MS is the main focus of this attack.

When did MS ever promise and then take away full BC?

[J3ff3]

When did MS ever promise and then take away full BC?

i didn't say they did.

at some point in the brainstorming process they decided against full BC due to costs. so effectively they dropped BC prior to launch.

thats why i said one company over promised and under delivered. and it wasn't MS.