Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Newbie

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    58
    Rep Power
    0
    Points
    0 (0 Banked)

    Controller Innovation sans Motion Sensing

    To start, id like to say Hi, im new to the forums though have been reading for awhile. I've found this community to be very knowledgable and civil at the same time. *wave*

    Anyways, onto my thoughts. When I first witnessed the Wii, i was impressed by the motion sensing technology, almost portrayed as the "virtual reality" concept that we've grown up dreaming about. As time went on, and PS3 donned a similar motion sensing feature on their controller, I began to think of how this could end up frustrating, especially considering the guy playing warhawk at E3 could barely control the ship .

    For instance, sometimes I move around with the controller and dont intentionally mean to move the controller. I think Gates mentioned this in a semi-recent interview. To me, it seems like this could almost become a burden. Theres a certain innacuracy with motion sensing that makes me lose appeal in the technology. For instance, if I want to do a barrel roll in a plane, i will press Right, Right. Its a simple selection of buttons, more precise than having to slice your enemy in a certain way rather than just inputting a command to slash him (Down, Diaganal, Forward, X).


    As E3 progressed and we began learning about some of the PS3 titles, i became engrossed in Assassin's Creed, a game which will sell PS3s. Seeing some interviews, the controls are based around the 4 main buttons (O, Square, Triangle, and X), where each button pretty much coresponds to a limb(s). I remember them talking about how Square and O would be left and right arm, one with a weapon and one without. This is true controlling innovation.

    The control system is really amazing, and innovative, without having to sling the controller about. I think a lot of people are caught up on how motion sensing is the future of games or the greatest innovation in controlling, but innovations in how we use our existing control system in brand new ways is an equal accomplishment to swinging or tilting a controller to the side.

    Medz
    Your signature and avatar are over the allowed limit. Read the rules. ~Perfect Sin

  2. #2
    Forum Sage
    Perfect Sin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Age
    26
    Posts
    7,947
    Rep Power
    91
    Points
    467 (0 Banked)
    Nice post. I feel that motion sensing in the PS3 (though still motion sensing) is on a different scale than the Wii. The PS3 controller has only 6 tilts of sensing while the Wii has full.

    I also want to say that most games will probably also offer back-up controls if the gamer does not want to use the tilt function. If you're using a game with tilt functionality, chances are that you as a gamer will know that moving the controller will have an effect in-game. It's not like you'll be playing a FPS then drop your hands only to realize your head just got blown off because you moved the controller.


    Anyways, i'm very excited for Assassin's Creed myself. It's innovation to its finest. Welcome to PS3Forums, have a great time posting here.
    "It's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace.

    Of course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free, 'cause then they're gonna
    get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are." ~Easy Rider (1969)

  3. #3
    Veteran
    MiThRaZoR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    22
    Posts
    4,300
    Rep Power
    81
    Points
    861 (0 Banked)
    All games will have primary controls (the buttons), and it's secondary control (the motion sensing). Now, once motion sensing becomes more adopted, it could one day become the primary control. But don't worry about that yet.

    And about when you move your hand unintentionally, that's because you know you aren't using the controllers movement to move something on the screen. But if you know that if you're going to move the controller for something to happen in the game, you'll get used to that. What you meantioned is like sayin', sometimes I press buttons on accedent (yes, I actually do, I right click accedentally sometimes when I get really lazy because of the weight of my hand (No, I'm not fat)) but anyway, you'll get used to it, and you'll realize that if you do this, this will happen. Which means, it'll become natural to you.

    And the controle scheme for Assasin's Creed is innovative but that's not for every game. It's just going more indepth than Tekken or Virtua Fighter controls. So basically, it's just improving upon it, nonetheless, it's still innovative. But like I said, it's not for everything. I still feel like that could be a problem for me, it would be kinda hard. Because every time you run, you have to press X and Circle repeatedly. (I actually don't know what the buttons are but that's just an example.)

    And welcome to the forums.
    "This life is not real. I conquered the world and it did not bring me satisfaction." -Muhammad Ali

  4. #4
    Master Poster
    Naboomagnoli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,099
    Rep Power
    71
    Points
    0 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Sin
    Nice post. I feel that motion sensing in the PS3 (though still motion sensing) is on a different scale than the Wii. The PS3 controller has only 6 tilts of sensing while the Wii has full.
    Wrong (or at least, confused). The PS3 pad has 6 degrees of freedom, which is pitch, yaw and roll (tilt sensitivity) AND linear movement (moving the pad left/right, up/down, forwards/backwards). Watch this.

    What the Wii controller has is positional sensitivity, which is why it can be used as a tennis racket etc. This is something that could be simulated by Eyetoy, but whether or not it will be remains to be seen.

  5. #5
    Newbie

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    58
    Rep Power
    0
    Points
    0 (0 Banked)
    As long as there is a way to turn off the motion sensing on all games, i'll be happy. When I think about enjoying myself playing a game, it involves being comfortable, usually lounging on the chair or sofa, not hopping, skipping, and/or jumping to my in-game destination.

    I like how companies can see innovation in the current Dual Shock controller without buying into the motion-sensing phase.
    Your signature and avatar are over the allowed limit. Read the rules. ~Perfect Sin

  6. #6
    Fishface
    Guest
    wee need both rumble and motion sensoring we want it all!

  7. #7
    Master Poster
    mrnagy88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,498
    Rep Power
    71
    Points
    0 (0 Banked)
    Funny, in the duck demo, the duck didn't jump the first time...

    I mean you can't expect it to be perfect, but for flying it looks like it will be pretty handy...
    They have to include an off-button though, nobody wants it on all the time...

    Do you think anyone from Sony reads our concerns on ps3forums.com? lol

    Can anyone explain how the underlying technology actually works?
    I'm pretty concerned that it will be a fragile device, if you drop it, or can the moving parts inside get stuck???
    Nos Locos kick your ***, Nos Locos kick your face, Nos Locos kick your balls into outer space!

  8. #8
    Master Poster
    Lozt_again's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    28
    Posts
    3,363
    Rep Power
    70
    Points
    46 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mrnagy88

    Do you think anyone from Sony reads our concerns on ps3forums.com? lol
    I imagine one employee of sorts reads it. :P
    Poop, scoop and shoot.
    My band: http://soundcloud.com/nionabeo

  9. #9
    Super Bias Moderator
    WhatRuOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    29
    Posts
    6,415
    Rep Power
    76
    Points
    129 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mrnagy88
    Can anyone explain how the underlying technology actually works?
    I'm pretty concerned that it will be a fragile device, if you drop it, or can the moving parts inside get stuck???
    I don't work for Sony...but I can give my opinion on what it could be.



    Could be something like that, of course not as crude, and more contacts. When the ball touches the contacts it completes a circuit and sends a signal.

    Wii # 2775 0778 3886 7989

  10. #10
    Supreme Veteran
    Zoibie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Age
    22
    Posts
    18,645
    Rep Power
    144
    Points
    56,735 (0 Banked)
    There could be some games where they could use both motion sensing and directional buttons

    e.g. like Indiana Jones on the E3 demo where he keeps throwing the enemy on to the car and he falls different ways. Maybe you would have to graple (lets say the O button) and you tilted the controller in the way you wanted to throw him

    Just a brainstorm but it will probablt appear in some games


  11. #11
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    29
    Posts
    505
    Rep Power
    0
    Points
    257 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mrnagy88
    I'm pretty concerned that it will be a fragile device, if you drop it, or can the moving parts inside get stuck???
    I had the same concerns and posted something about it not too long ago. I think it would be more fragile. Controllers really need to stand up to a beating. They get thrown, dropped, stepped on, etc but we expect them to still work after massive damage. Nintendo controllers were unbreakable and it was very nice. Also, I can kinda fix many problems of standard controllers by taking them apart and cleaning them out but I don't know if the motion sensors would stop working correctly if something was spilled on them or if they would just get dirty.

    I also worry about the sensitivity and responsiveness of the tilt functions. Will my character be move every time my hands twitch a little or when I shift positions on the couch? Will it move when I want it to without overly exaggerated movements? What if I play with the controller $#@!ed slightly, will it compensate and zero at the tilt or will it constantly detect that as tilt? Can I use it without looking like a dumbass? Will I be able to play laying down or reclining and still get full tilt movement? Will it get tiresome after extended periods of time? I know nobody can answer these questions right now, but they are ones that I will have to ask after launch.

  12. #12
    Apprentice

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    430
    Rep Power
    0
    Points
    0 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Sin
    Nice post. I feel that motion sensing in the PS3 (though still motion sensing) is on a different scale than the Wii. The PS3 controller has only 6 tilts of sensing while the Wii has full.
    A solid body only has 6 degrees of freedom. 3 translational and 3 rotational, so that is full motion sensing.

    Can anyone explain how the underlying technology actually works?
    I'm pretty concerned that it will be a fragile device, if you drop it, or can the moving parts inside get stuck???
    If I were to design it, I'd use optical gyroscopes for rotation sensing. These things are prety shock resistant. What it is is a spool of optic fiber. Light from a diod laser is sent throgh it, and after it travels through, it's phase is compared to the original beam using an inerferometer. If the whole thing is rotating, the light travels through it slightly faster or slower, causing a phase shift that can be detected with an interferometer and a photo-transistor. The great thing about it, no moving parts. At all. If it is well built, you can throw it at a wall, and it would be fine.

    These things tend to be pretty expensive, though, since it requires miles of optical fiber to be sensitive enough. A cheaper alternative, and the one that works with translation, is an acelerometer. A simple one can consist of a tiny weight attached to a presure sensitive variable resistor. When you move or rotate the pad, the system of acelerometers pick up the aceleration of the pad, and a simple circuit can be used to reconstruct the motion of the pad from that data. These things aren't quite as precise, and there is some mechanical movement, but it is minimal. It's not like the weight is going to be flying about. It only moves a fraction of a milemiter. So againt, it is prety hard to damage these things.

  13. #13
    Forum Sage
    killzone_71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Age
    25
    Posts
    8,881
    Rep Power
    91
    Points
    9,836 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Sin
    Nice post. I feel that motion sensing in the PS3 (though still motion sensing) is on a different scale than the Wii. The PS3 controller has only 6 tilts of sensing while the Wii has full.

    I also want to say that most games will probably also offer back-up controls if the gamer does not want to use the tilt function. If you're using a game with tilt functionality, chances are that you as a gamer will know that moving the controller will have an effect in-game. It's not like you'll be playing a FPS then drop your hands only to realize your head just got blown off because you moved the controller.


    Anyways, i'm very excited for Assassin's Creed myself. It's innovation to its finest. Welcome to PS3Forums, have a great time posting here.
    so sin, your saying that WII's controller will be better than ps3's controller?
    tfw you want to use signatures you made that are saved in DA but this place still have a signature size limitations after all these years
    lol

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
vBCredits II Deluxe v2.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2010-2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.