The Official Apple Thread: Introducing the new, thinner, lighter...

[F34R]

And how much is that going to run you? If you're going to go bonkers you might as well wait for the new Mac Pro this year.

It'll run me about $600 more than the one I have now. So, I just have to sell a big toe or something; instead of a kidney. The Mac Pro doesn't come with a 27" amazing quality display.

Who else is waiting for a Retina iPad Mini? I got accepted a job offer this week starting next month and I'm going to upgrade my iPad 2 as a reward to myself. But I'm going to wait for the Retina Mini. Can't wait.

I'll get the iPad mini when it has specs equal to, or beyond the iPad 4.

Go for it man. I got the same. Fastest configuration possible minus the RAM.

It is ridiculously fast. I have it converting 1080p movies on the fly and stream to my iphone through air video without a sweat.

Yeah, I can't wait. Learning a new OS is beginning to get awesome. My son is super happy because they've been using Mac at school for a while now, and he's 4 months into a game that his group has been making in Industrial Tech. He can't wait to start doing it at home.

[PeanutButterMunky]

The Mac Pro doesn't come with a 27" amazing quality display.

No, it does not.

[F34R]

No, it does not.

That's probably the only reason really for me not to consider it.

[MATRIX 2]

Goodness I love this apple!! lol

Airplay my iPad/iPhone to my iMac, and record the footage... I love it.

I'm going to return this iMac tomorrow and get the highest config (minus adding the ram via apple).

Here is what it is:

• 2.9GHz quad-core Intel Core i5
• Turbo Boost up to 3.6GHz
• 8GB (two 4GB) memory
• 1TB hard drive
• NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M with 512MB

Here is what it will be:

3.4GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz

8GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB (will add 32GB RAM myself)

3TB Fusion Drive
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB GDDR5

Are you going to game on it?

[admartian]

Hey guys, what's bootcamp gaming like? I've always been curious. Any hiccups etc that you would not otherwise see on a native PC/Windows platform?

Not that I'm close to getting an iMAc or anything. Just something that I'd consider.

[PeanutButterMunky]

Hey guys, what's bootcamp gaming like? I've always been curious. Any hiccups etc that you would not otherwise see on a native PC/Windows platform?

Not that I'm close to getting an iMAc or anything. Just something that I'd consider.

There isn't any difference between gaming on a Mac via Boot Camp or gaming on a PC with similar specs. I've never had any hiccups and sometimes games play better on the Boot Camp side than they do on the Mac side.

Also Apple provides all the drivers you need prior to installing Windows to Boot Camp with a pre-download of them.

[MATRIX 2]

Hey guys, what's bootcamp gaming like? I've always been curious. Any hiccups etc that you would not otherwise see on a native PC/Windows platform?

Not that I'm close to getting an iMAc or anything. Just something that I'd consider.

Better than virtual machine performance but bootcamp has its own issues.

Remember apple has little incentive to give you anything more than a basic functional experience.

[admartian]

There isn't any difference between gaming on a Mac via Boot Camp or gaming on a PC with similar specs. I've never had any hiccups and sometimes games play better on the Boot Camp side than they do on the Mac side.

Also Apple provides all the drivers you need prior to installing Windows to Boot Camp with a pre-download of them.

Cool.

So Bootcamp is something that is officially supported by Apple then? Might look into it by the time I need a new PC/Laptop.

[PeanutButterMunky]

Cool.

So Bootcamp is something that is officially supported by Apple then? Might look into it by the time I need a new PC/Laptop.

Yes... Boot Camp comes with all new Macs. It's default Apple software. The latest version that just came out a day or two ago allows the installation of Windows 8... not that you would want to... but it supports it now.

Boot Camp will partition your drive for you, allow you to download the appropriate drivers, then reboot the computer to allow you to install Windows (they don't provide that... you have to buy it, obviously).

After you're done installing Windows, you can hold the option key at startup to either choose to boot OS X or Windows.

[The Cage]

Some say turning off Genius for apps help. Try that if you don't use it. http://osxdaily.com/2012/09/28/app-s...-sluggishness/

it's already off though

[PeanutButterMunky]

Better than virtual machine performance but bootcamp has its own issues.

Remember apple has little incentive to give you anything more than a basic functional experience.

I've never had any problems with Boot Camp itself... as long as you stay updated with the latest drivers. I have had issues with the OS X partition randomly becoming unbootable. I've addressed this by simply re-installing OS X over the OS X partition without wiping it... just default settings. Installing it like normal just installs the OS and doesn't affect the files on the computer. Even so... it's best to keep a backup of all your things when dicking around with partitions.

[MATRIX 2]

I've never had any problems with Boot Camp itself... as long as you stay updated with the latest drivers. I have had issues with the OS X partition randomly becoming unbootable. I've addressed this by simply re-installing OS X over the OS X partition without wiping it... just default settings. Installing it like normal just installs the OS and doesn't affect the files on the computer. Even so... it's best to keep a backup of all your things when dicking around with partitions.

What I'm saying is they have no incentive to make their drivers perform better than a basic standard (i.e. optimize them to anywhere near the level they do for OSX).

So you may not be getting all the performance the hardware is capable of under windows compared to OSX.

one example is that you are stuck using the discrete gpu on the macbook pro/retina and cannot use he integrated graphics in windows.

[PeanutButterMunky]

What I'm saying is they have no incentive to make their drivers perform better than a basic standard (i.e. optimize them to anywhere near the level they do for OSX).

So you may not be getting all the performance the hardware is capable of under windows compared to OSX.

one example is that you are stuck using the discrete gpu on the macbook pro/retina and cannot use he integrated graphics in windows.

It's just an Intel board. Apple didn't make the motherboard, the onboard HD4000 or the discrete GPU. All the parts in the laptops have drivers for them Windows side. But Windows will never work as fluidly as the hardware/software marriage that is Apple and OS X... because that's Apple's philosophy. It just works right out of the box. That isn't a fault with Apple, that is the problem with Windows itself. There are a trillion hardware combinations and a trillion drivers for said combinations. You're not going to get 100% no matter what you do. And they do try and give you a decent experience since Apple provides their own drivers to work with the trackpad ... for instance... or some of the other buttons that wouldn't otherwise work without drivers. At least Apple lets you download all the basic drivers you need to run the thing.

I'm not saying it's the best, but Apple isn't trying to condemn you for using Windows. You already bought their $1000+ dollar machine, they couldn't care less what you do with it... you already gave them the money. The fact is... they give you the option in the stock OS to use Boot Camp. If they didn't want you to use Windows, they wouldn't give you the option.

[MATRIX 2]

It's just an Intel board. Apple didn't make the motherboard, the onboard HD4000 or the discrete GPU. All the parts in the laptops have drivers for them Windows side.

And that is fine, for a desktop. But due to the nature of a laptop and the additional drivers the extra hardware requires, apple has to provide certain drivers themselves for everything to work properly.

But Windows will never work as fluidly as the hardware/software marriage that is Apple and OS X... because that's Apple's philosophy. It just works right out of the box. That isn't a fault with Apple, that is the problem with Windows itself. There are a trillion hardware combinations and a trillion drivers for said combinations. You're not going to get 100% no matter what you do.

Perhaps, but other hardware vendors have no motive to limit driver performance or not do the best job they can. Apple does have ulterior motives.

And they do try and give you a decent experience since Apple provides their own drivers to work with the trackpad ... for instance... or some of the other buttons that wouldn't otherwise work without drivers. At least Apple lets you download all the basic drivers you need to run the thing.

They don't exactly have a choice. What good would bootcamp be if they didn't put in usable trackpad drivers (since that is the main input method for people on a laptop) ?

I'm not saying it's the best, but Apple isn't trying to condemn you for using Windows. You already bought their $1000+ dollar machine, they couldn't care less what you do with it... you already gave them the money. The fact is... they give you the option in the stock OS to use Boot Camp. If they didn't want you to use Windows, they wouldn't give you the option.

Except that their entire strategy hinged on that ability.

A major reason for their switch to intel processors several years ago was because of this. By switching to intel they made their cpu compatible with windows. Which allowed bootcamp to happen.

What was the point of all of this?

In that time software compatibility was a concern for OSX. So what better fallback could apple offer to a potential customer than windows itself?

Having that ability went a long way to win over consumers by giving them that fallback option, even if they never used it.

I'm pretty sure that was a major factor in the increase in mac sales in those early intel days.

[PeanutButterMunky]

And that is fine, for a desktop. But due to the nature of a laptop and the additional drivers the extra hardware requires, apple has to provide certain drivers themselves for everything to work properly.

Yes, but I run into the same issue when I build PCs.

Perhaps, but other hardware vendors have no motive to limit driver performance or not do the best job they can. Apple does have ulterior motives.

First of all, you're assuming they have negative ulterior motives… like they're out to get their customers for using Windows. That just sounds absurd. Hell, I know some people that remove OS X entirely and just run Linux on it. Either way, Apple made a profit.

Secondly, the drivers hardware-side for Windows… the ones that Apple doesn't provide… are from third-party hardware vendors. Why would non-Apple hardware vendors not support drivers just because they happen to be used inside Mac systems? That doesn't even make sense.

They don't exactly have a choice. What good would bootcamp be if they didn't put in usable trackpad drivers (since that is the main input method for people on a laptop) ?

They do have a choice… the choice to remove Boot Camp if they didn't want anyone using Windows… although there are other utilities besides Boot Camp that allow installing and booting Windows on a Mac.

Except that their entire strategy hinged on that ability.


A major reason for their switch to intel processors several years ago was because of this. By switching to intel they made their cpu compatible with windows. Which allowed bootcamp to happen.


What was the point of all of this?


In that time software compatibility was a concern for OSX. So what better fallback could apple offer to a potential customer than windows itself?


Having that ability went a long way to win over consumers by giving them that fallback option, even if they never used it.


I'm pretty sure that was a major factor in the increase in mac sales in those early intel days.

Yes that is true and I agree with you. That was probably their biggest reason for going Intel. But Apple and Microsoft aren't at each other's throats as much as they'd like us to believe. They actually do work together to make the compatibility between the two more harmonious. Just like Apple makes Windows accessible via Boot Camp, Microsoft makes Microsoft Office for OS X. It's not smart business sense to just horde your product and not let anyone have it… not when they can make more money.

Like you said… Boot Camp probably sold more Macs because of it… and Microsoft sold more software because of Office for Mac and Boot Camp. At the heart of it all, they are in this for money. If making Windows accessible via Boot Camp makes them more money, there's no reason they should make it a shitty experience for the consumer. I've run into all the same driver issues when building PCs… but I eventually get it worked out… but I honestly doubt they're out to make Boot Camp a shitty experience for the users. And just the other day they updated Boot Camp for Windows 8 support and 3 TB+ Windows partitions.

Or I just have no idea what I'm talking about. Either way is possible.

[F34R]

Are you going to game on it?

Definitely. Right now, I've played Diablo III and Starcraft II. It's amazing on the screen.

[PeanutButterMunky]

Definitely. Right now, I've played Diablo III and Starcraft II. It's amazing on the screen.

Yes, the screen is ridiculous. I remember gaming on my old one a couple years ago. A similar monitor will probably cost you 600 bucks.

[MATRIX 2]

Yes, but I run into the same issue when I build PCs.



First of all, you're assuming they have negative ulterior motives… like they're out to get their customers for using Windows. That just sounds absurd. Hell, I know some people that remove OS X entirely and just run Linux on it. Either way, Apple made a profit.

Secondly, the drivers hardware-side for Windows… the ones that Apple doesn't provide… are from third-party hardware vendors. Why would non-Apple hardware vendors not support drivers just because they happen to be used inside Mac systems? That doesn't even make sense.



They do have a choice… the choice to remove Boot Camp if they didn't want anyone using Windows… although there are other utilities besides Boot Camp that allow installing and booting Windows on a Mac.



Yes that is true and I agree with you. That was probably their biggest reason for going Intel. But Apple and Microsoft aren't at each other's throats as much as they'd like us to believe. They actually do work together to make the compatibility between the two more harmonious. Just like Apple makes Windows accessible via Boot Camp, Microsoft makes Microsoft Office for OS X. It's not smart business sense to just horde your product and not let anyone have it… not when they can make more money.

Like you said… Boot Camp probably sold more Macs because of it… and Microsoft sold more software because of Office for Mac and Boot Camp. At the heart of it all, they are in this for money. If making Windows accessible via Boot Camp makes them more money, there's no reason they should make it a shitty experience for the consumer. I've run into all the same driver issues when building PCs… but I eventually get it worked out… but I honestly doubt they're out to make Boot Camp a shitty experience for the users. And just the other day they updated Boot Camp for Windows 8 support and 3 TB+ Windows partitions.

Or I just have no idea what I'm talking about. Either way is possible.

For some reason both of my replies failed to be submitted, so I'm going to take that as a sign to end this particular discussion.

Definitely. Right now, I've played Diablo III and Starcraft II. It's amazing on the screen.

Right. But if the current version suffices for those games and you don't expect to play any games that may be limited by the 660, does it make sense to spend ~$600 more on hardware that you may not make use of?

[PeanutButterMunky]

Right. But if the current version suffices for those games and you don't expect to play any games that may be limited by the 660, does it make sense to spend ~$600 more on hardware that you may not make use of?

That doesn't even make any sense. The base configuration for the 27" iMac he got has the GPU he's referring to. He's not paying 600 more for anything. I don't even know where you got 600 from. From thin air, I'd imagine.

[MATRIX 2]

That doesn't even make any sense. The base configuration for the 27" iMac he got has the GPU he's referring to. He's not paying 600 more for anything. I don't even know where you got 600 from. From thin air, I'd imagine.

Um, his post:

It'll run me about $600 more than the one I have now. So, I just have to sell a big toe or something; instead of a kidney. The Mac Pro doesn't come with a 27" amazing quality display.

I'll get the iPad mini when it has specs equal to, or beyond the iPad 4.

Yeah, I can't wait. Learning a new OS is beginning to get awesome. My son is super happy because they've been using Mac at school for a while now, and he's 4 months into a game that his group has been making in Industrial Tech. He can't wait to start doing it at home.

This is what he bought:

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD095LL/A

This is what he is going for: (with the 680 upgrade, 3TB fusion drive upgrade and 3.4GHz i7 upgrade) $2749

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD096LL/A

So it actually seems like it will be more than $600 more.


And the 27 inch imac comes with the 660m or 675 mx standard based on the sky, not the 680M.

[PeanutButterMunky]

I've had a cold for three days and my reading comprehension is apparently in the toilet.

Honestly, if I firmly made the decision to spend that much on an iMac, I would've done the same thing. Since you can't manually upgrade the GPU without frustration, I would've done the same thing to "future-proof" it. I don't see what difference it makes that he got the 680.

[MATRIX 2]

I've had a cold for three days and my reading comprehension is apparently in the toilet.

Honestly, if I firmly made the decision to spend that much on an iMac, I would've done the same thing. Since you can't manually upgrade the GPU without frustration, I would've done the same thing to "future-proof" it. I don't see what difference it makes that he got the 680.

Because the performance improvement from a 675mx to a 680m isn't worth $150.

Because at this level os spending the Mac pro is starting to make more sense. ( or at least waiting for the haswell update in the summer, gpu refresh in the fall).

And mostly because based on F34R's previous statements he is a value oriented guy. Dropping $2749 on an imac (plus the cost of 32GB of RAM) is the antithesis of a value buy. (not to mention the MBP as well in addition to the Asus he bought a while ago).

Hell you could build a pretty good hackintosh for that kind of money and have change left over.


Decisions like these should be well though out. This course of action seems impulsive to me.

[PeanutButterMunky]

Because the performance improvement from a 675mx to a 680m isn't worth $150.

Because at this level os spending the Mac pro is starting to make more sense. ( or at least waiting for the haswell update in the summer, gpu refresh in the fall).

And mostly because based on F34R's previous statements he is a value oriented guy. Dropping $2749 on an imac (plus the cost of 32GB of RAM) is the antithesis of a value buy. (not to mention the MBP as well in addition to the Asus he bought a while ago).

Hell you could build a pretty good hackintosh for that kind of money and have change left over.


Decisions like these should be well though out. This course of action seems impulsive to me.

I agree regarding the money bit, but Hackintoshes are a pain in the ass and are not anywhere near an easy an experience as just simply owning a Mac. My god the driver issues and editing kext files to work with GPUs and praying that an OS update doesn't break your drivers. It's hell. Yes it is cheaper, but it's not worth it if you're trying to put it together yourself. There are some websites that sell pre-built Hackintoshes, which I think are a great deal... and those tend to be less "breaky" with drivers than trying to put your own hardware together to see how it works with OS X... even with hardware lists given out... each combination has their own flaws. And there a lot of GPUs that simply won't work in a Hackintosh build because no drivers exist for them in any form... and if a GPU works right now... it may not with an OS update. So every time you get an update... there's fear... so you have to back up your whole computer first before updating in case you need to roll back. It's just frustrating, lol.

[Tutankhamun]

it's already off though

Hmm. You are running the latest version of iOS right? Are you jailbroken? Might be an ISP issue, perhaps they are having DNS issues and packets are lost. How does downloading files from other places work?

-----

Regarding Bootcamp, it does work very well. Plenty of Mac (hardcore) gamers use Bootcamp and Windows to play their games even if there's an OS X version available because they claim the drivers for some the graphics cards actually perform better under Windows. John Siracusa from Ars Technica fame is a serious gamer and he uses Bootcamp on his Mac Pro to game for example.

All Bootcamp does is partition your drive and emulate BIOS through EFI. It's nothing special to it, when you are in Windows you use drivers written for Windows meaning some drivers, like graphics cards, may or may not, perform better than they do on OS X due to AMD/Nvidia having optimized them better. Apple provides some drivers for the trackpad and whatnot but it's nothing low-level.

There's a lot of misconception about what Bootcamp actually does, it's actually a quite cool solution and worth reading up on.

As for Apple going with Intel rather than stay on PPC. That had very little to do with them wanting people to be able to run Windows on a Mac, although it is a nice bonus, and more about IBM being unable to deliver low energy chips that performed better than Intel did on x86. This was a huge problem for Apple as they noticed the trend was clear that users wanted portable Mac's more than desktops in the coming years and IBM just couldn't deliver a CPU that was cool and energy efficient enough to run on a Notebook.

[The Cage]

Hmm. You are running the latest version of iOS right? Are you jailbroken? Might be an ISP issue, perhaps they are having DNS issues and packets are lost. How does downloading files from other places work?

-----

Regarding Bootcamp, it does work very well. Plenty of Mac (hardcore) gamers use Bootcamp and Windows to play their games even if there's an OS X version available because they claim the drivers for some the graphics cards actually perform better under Windows. John Siracusa from Ars Technica fame is a serious gamer and he uses Bootcamp on his Mac Pro to game for example.

All Bootcamp does is partition your drive and emulate BIOS through EFI. It's nothing special to it, when you are in Windows you use drivers written for Windows meaning some drivers, like graphics cards, may or may not, perform better than they do on OS X due to AMD/Nvidia having optimized them better. Apple provides some drivers for the trackpad and whatnot but it's nothing low-level.

There's a lot of misconception about what Bootcamp actually does, it's actually a quite cool solution and worth reading up on.

As for Apple going with Intel rather than stay on PPC. That had very little to do with them wanting people to be able to run Windows on a Mac, although it is a nice bonus, and more about IBM being unable to deliver low energy chips that performed better than Intel did on x86. This was a huge problem for Apple as they noticed the trend was clear that users wanted portable Mac's more than desktops in the coming years and IBM just couldn't deliver a CPU that was cool and energy efficient enough to run on a Notebook.

Not jailbroken (it's clean never did it) the latest version of iOS is installed, about the other devices the downloads are fine and no problem (my android for example)

not sure if it's the ISP (could be) , everything downloads fine except the app store which loads slow, i can download sometimes but it keeps saying "unable to download" and "retry" option etc