Halo-Reach:Graphics

[ysleiro]

About an hour ago I was thinking about game's graphics and I began to question myself on something I hear often.

People always complain and pick on Halo for not having CRAZY graphics, but I'm sitting here thinking: "damn dude the game is capable of tracking 4 different players all on one console, all online, all at once !!!! without any loss in quality of game-play".

So that brings me to another point: should Halo:Reach deviate from this (4 players on one console) methodology that Halo is known for and deliver somewhat better graphics or should they maintain their methodology and go for slightly better graphics?

Of course I'm assuming that removing the 4 player capability will free up some RAM (as a result higher res textures can be loaded in RAM) and CPU power (allowing the game to do "more things"). I could be TOTALLY WRONG. What do I know? But lets pretend I'm a genius.

I'll tell you my opinion in the comments below.

[bachlab99]

About an hour ago I was thinking about game's graphics and I began to question myself on something I hear often.

People always complain and pick on Halo for not having CRAZY graphics, but I'm sitting here thinking: "damn dude the game is capable of tracking 4 different players all on one console, all online, all at once !!!! without any loss in quality of game-play".

So that brings me to another point: should Halo:Reach deviate from this (4 players on one console) methodology that Halo is known for and deliver somewhat better graphics or should they maintain their methodology and go for slightly better graphics?

Of course I'm assuming that removing the 4 player capability will free up some RAM (as a result higher res textures can be loaded in RAM) and CPU power (allowing the game to do "more things"). I could be TOTALLY WRONG. What do I know? But lets pretend I'm a genius.

I'll tell you my opinion in the comments below.

That's a great question.

I personally would never sacrafice the awesomeness that is 4 player campaign co-op for the sake of prettier graphics and I doubt most real gamers would.

I suppose anopther way of framing the question could be: "are you a graphics ***** or do you have friends?". I kid, I kid .

[Galvanise_]

Well, since Halo 3 was released, Microsoft have lowed the OS footprint by a fair amount, allowing more RAM available to developers. I think it'll look much better and still manage the same four player feats.

[jlippone]

Texture resolution is mostly about available memory and management, but 4 player mode basically needs only 1/2 resolution for textures due to the smaller resolution and FoV.
This means that while dropping highest mipmap level during 4 player mode they can have comparable texture resolution to single player game and use only 0.58 of the memory.

Bigger problem becomes of the polygon complexity, lighting and gameplay mechanics.

When thinking about lighting and scene complexity I do hope that developers do not have to use forward renderers now a days as deferred rendering/lighting does make multiplayer scenes a lot easier and the cost of lighting is same as it scales with the amount of pixels and not by geometry.

Umm, this should be enough rambling for now.

[Rapture]

No, I'll take 4 player online co-op and 4 play splitscreen mutliplayer over better graphics. But that's just what I prefer, I know others would say differently.

[dondidit]

STOP PLAYING. This will be halo 3 with a touch up of graphics. Im not expecting a graphical leap but until I see footage of game play.

[PsychoMantis]

I pick "better graphics" over super def graphics any day but then again it depends on the game and what you can do, eg. 4 player co-op/split screen..ect. I think if the devs take the time to make the game pretty all the elements of the game should be pretty, gamemodes as well, they shouldn't be half-assed although glitches and problems do occur but should thoroughly be looked over before the final product is released. Its a long shot but in the end Halo is a good shooter although others beat it by a mile in graphics, its still a good game.

[valvegamer]

Honestly as much as I love FPS games, well just games in general, I have played Halo 3 and I just don't get it, to me that game is horrible! The single player is boring and repetitive and the multiplayer was really horrible to me, I know its just my opinion but I just didn't see any improvements or anything new in Halo 3 or ODST. Now Halo:Reach sounds cool but I have my doubts about the gameplay again.

[Metfanant]

i agree with your point about the co-op....but here is my issue....

Halo is MS' flagship franchise...this is your biggest game...made by your biggest dev...with the biggest bankroll....

and at the end of the day you can't even hit 720p and some Anti-Aliasing??

there are some standards that Bungie must hit with Reach as a flagship title moving forward regardless of features..

[ddPLaNeT]

Judging from the VGA little video, the graphics wont be that different, it's pretty much the same engine as ODST if we look at the character faces.
I prefer 4 player split-screnn over better graphics anyday but i still find Halo's engine ugly and outdated. I may be wrong though, we'll see when actual gameplay videos come out.

[Rapture]

Judging from the VGA little video, the graphics wont be that different, it's pretty much the same engine as ODST if we look at the character faces.
I prefer 4 player split-screnn over better graphics anyday but i still find Halo's engine ugly and outdated. I may be wrong though, we'll see when actual gameplay videos come out.

You're joking, right? Did we watch the same video or play the same ODST?

[X2]

i agree with your point about the co-op....but here is my issue....

Halo is MS' flagship franchise...this is your biggest game...made by your biggest dev...with the biggest bankroll....

and at the end of the day you can't even hit 720p and some Anti-Aliasing??

there are some standards that Bungie must hit with Reach as a flagship title moving forward regardless of features..

Bungie doesn't have to do nothing but continue to create great games that perform well.

[Metfanant]

Bungie doesn't have to do nothing but continue to create great games that perform well.

then Bungie will forever be known as the dev studio that had an unlimited budget and were in command of the most popular franchise of our generation on a console perfectly capable of HD video.....that FAILED to even create a game that was in high definition and had any anti-aliasing...

impressive...

[bachlab99]

then Bungie will forever be known as the dev studio that had an unlimited budget and were in command of the most popular franchise of our generation on a console perfectly capable of HD video.....that FAILED to even create a game that was in high definition and had any anti-aliasing...

What a ridculous assertion. Bungie won't be forever known for that at all.

And on which planet do devs get "unlimited" budgetg? Certainly not this one.

[X2]

then Bungie will forever be known as the dev studio that had an unlimited budget and were in command of the most popular franchise of our generation on a console perfectly capable of HD video.....that FAILED to even create a game that was in high definition and had any anti-aliasing...

impressive...

Well you may feel that way but others don't. Actually when playing Halo I could careless about the technicality that is going on in the background because I am having so much fun. Bungie main strength is Balance, now how they get and maintain that balance I don't care, but at the end of the day I know when I put in one of there games, it will consist of great gameplay, graphics, single player, multiplayer, co op, scale and with a balance across that spectrum that no one has match yet imo. Games like Halo 2 and 1 are still being play till this day.

[bachlab99]

You nailed it. Bungie just make games that are incredibly fun to play. That's why they are still played to this day and why Halo 3 is regularly in the top 3 of the Live charts, even after years of release.

It's what gaming is about IMO. As an old skooler, I feel gaming started to lose something when it became about power and graphics over anything else. Bungie keep it old school for me by keeping the balance you speak of.

[Metfanant]

What a ridculous assertion. Bungie won't be forever known for that at all.

And on which planet do devs get "unlimited" budgetg? Certainly not this one.

sure they will...they plain and simple have failed to create a game in HD with any AA....

and obviously "unlimited" is an exaggeration....but lets be honest here...being funded by MS...whatever Bungie wants to spend on Halo they can spend...

[bachlab99]

sure they will...they plain and simple have failed to create a game in HD with any AA....

and obviously "unlimited" is an exaggeration....but lets be honest here...being funded by MS...whatever Bungie wants to spend on Halo they can spend...

Failed at HD but passed with flying colours for creating awesome games that are incredibly fun to play and is one of the most popular gaming franchises ever.

I'd say that was job done.

They also make Microsoft soooooo much money it's not funny, which is always a plus.

[Metfanant]

Failed at HD but passed with flying colours for creating awesome games that are incredibly fun to play and is one of the most popular gaming franchises ever.

I'd say that was job done.

They also make Microsoft soooooo much money it's not funny, which is always a plus.

and i also feel that their best game was H:CE and have gone downhill since...i love Halo, and have bought every game, and look at my sig, i even have the halo 3 special edition 360...but to me...the games have not been as good...and from a technical standpoint they lag behind the rest of the gaming world....they do some great things with their scale, and their lighting is probably second to none, but the fact remains...Bungie needs to join us in the HD era...

[SixAxisRumble]

Not everyone is a graphics ho and feels the need to mention Killzone 2 in every post ....Personally i think they needed to up the graphics from Halo 3 but i would not like to see 4 player co-op took out just for a prettier game, co-op with friends is alot of fun and usually surpasses the single player experience!!

Gameplay>>>>>>>>>>Graphics

[Express]

It went from:
gameplay>>>>graphics

to

omg halo:reach kick killzone 2 graphically!! Just look at this and that...

after a careful look at the trailer again back to

gameplay>>>>graphics


But bungie nailed gameplay already so it´s time to improve those graphics.. A lot

[taxman]

I've been saying this for years. Every console has a limited amount of system resources and developers prioritize on what they think is important. Halo 3 could have easily looked much better if they didn't plan for Co-op. COD 4 could have had much better textures if they didn't choose 60 FPS. Gears could have run at 60 FPS if they didn't have co-op.

Probably the only reason Gears 2 did not have 4 player co-op was because they would have had to downgrade graphics. Same with Killzone 2,Uncharted 2, Modern Warfare 2. These are not RPG's or Sandbox game where you have to figure a way for the 2nd player to be engaged. These are linear games in which a 2nd main character can easily be explained if needed (IIRC Halo 2 had 2 master chiefs running around in co-op).

Halo will never look as good as some other games because bungie chooses to allocate their resources into other things than graphics(co-op, AI, physics, vehicles etc) and halo is about as sandbox as you can get in FPS these days (if you use the camera you could go thro an entire level and see all the enemies or backtrack an entire level). Unless bungie changes their design principle with halo, we are just not going to see a GOW or Killzone -esque Halo.

[Vulgotha]

Well, since Halo 3 was released, Microsoft have lowed the OS footprint by a fair amount, allowing more RAM available to developers. I think it'll look much better and still manage the same four player feats.

Um, no. The 360 OS is still 32MB.

What has been reduced is devkit overhead, since they went from 512MB to 1GB of RAM.

[disposableheroV]

You nailed it. Bungie just make games that are incredibly fun to play. That's why they are still played to this day and why Halo 3 is regularly in the top 3 of the Live charts, even after years of release.

It's what gaming is about IMO. As an old skooler, I feel gaming started to lose something when it became about power and graphics over anything else. Bungie keep it old school for me by keeping the balance you speak of.

Took the words out of my mind, basically, though I'm not very old Graphics should never matter went it comes to fun.

[Jabjabs]

I just wish they had a better tech team, I mean they create great games but when it comes to the technology they have always fallen short of the mark compared to what others are doing.

I may be a bit of graphics ***** but every time I see games running sub native resolutions I shudder, only Modern Warfare 2 and GTA4 have gotten away with it personally. I really hope they try for 720p this time around.