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  1. #301
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    I consider the matter a little differently and whilst I'll likely never see eye to eye with most in regards to the matter my concern lies with what I want from something I've purchased.

    People love to judge others I guess that makes them feel good about themselves and forget their own flaws/faults. Here let me give you something (besides a million other things) to dislike about me.

    I will most certainly backup my own games onto a HDD and play them via an external HDD as soon as NTFS or WFS support is included. Call it piracy, call it what you like, I'll be doing just that. I'm not planing on doing this and going online on PSN, I plan on buying another PS3 solely for this purpose.

    ...and I'll be doing that because I can.
    Gaming on all platforms right now.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron;
    It is your right to do whatever you want with the hardware. But it is not your right to modify the Official OS nor the functions of the OS that the IP holder has. This was brought up once before in the linux removal thread. You cannot have your cake and eat it to.
    We should be able to do whatever we want with the software short of redistributing any part of it.

    I would put forward the argument that laws which tell us what we can and can't do with the hardware or software on anything we buy are ridiculous. If I want to tinker with the internals of my roomba to make it bark like a dog that should be fine - even though the same technology would allow me to play pirated mp3s on it.

    You want to turn your PS3 into a linux box, go ahead. You want it to run windows or be specifically for homebrew, then fine. I really find it hard to believe that anyone should care that the people doing this are trying to retain the some of functions of the original OS then modify it, then say its for freedom. That is nonsense. You are not free to subvert someone elses software, period. It is not ok on PC's, it is not ok on closed devices like DVD players or microwaves, why on earth would it be ok for the PS3.
    because you should be able to do whatever you want with all of your other examples.

    Microwaves are in a slightly different category for me because of the danger factor, but you could **** yourself up with any number of things in your house by being a dumb *** - thats the category people who hurt themselves modding microwaves belong in

    I really don't understand how people actually think that its ok to hack these companies software.
    meh, why not? Piracy is one thing, but if I just want to screw around in Linux and turn a box I bought into a nifty little media centre, so what? The concept of not having ownership of the bits and bytes on the various media in your house is pretty cuckoobananas, is it not?

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    I consider the matter a little differently and whilst I'll likely never see eye to eye with most in regards to the matter my concern lies with what I want from something I've purchased.

    People love to judge others I guess that makes them feel good about themselves and forget their own flaws/faults. Here let me give you something (besides a million other things) to dislike about me.

    I will most certainly backup my own games onto a HDD and play them via an external HDD as soon as NTFS or WFS support is included. Call it piracy, call it what you like, I'll be doing just that.

    ...and I'll be doing that because I can.
    And that would be fine if Sony dropped that sort of app, or method to do so... you said yourself you are going to backup YOUR discs to HDD.

    But c'mon, that isn't what drives people to hack consoles... it is the allure of going to rent a game for a few bucks and backing THAT title up.

    Sugar coat it all ya like man, but hacking is not to provide useful features, that is a side effect of being able to play 'backed up' games.

    Homebrew is cool, but not at the expense of exposing a console to gaming piracy.
    LMAO

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuguy View Post
    And that would be fine if Sony dropped that sort of app, or method to do so... you said yourself you are going to backup YOUR discs to HDD.

    But c'mon, that isn't what drives people to hack consoles... it is the allure of going to rent a game for a few bucks and backing THAT title up.

    Sugar coat it all ya like man, but hacking is not to provide useful features, that is a side effect of being able to play 'backed up' games.

    Homebrew is cool, but not at the expense of exposing a console to gaming piracy.
    Regardless my stance I not only understand what you're saying but I respect it and know morally your stance is solid and i commend you.

    But I shouldn't need to prove to anybody what games, movies, software I buy and do not buy. I downloaded the Halo Reach retail game (which was available to Live) 3 weeks out from release, because i could, that download was to satisfy my desire to see what the game was about, not to play it and screw the developers. I have since deleted Halo Reach because I still buy my games! I did the same thing with GTA IV and went ahead and purchased both console versions of the game!

    I can pirate but I choose to still buy my games, I backup my games by any means I wish because I feel I have the right to, even if Sony/MS/Nintendo do not want me to.

    Morally I do not believe I'm hurting anybody, but yes others will abuse the ability, not I however.
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  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    I consider the matter a little differently and whilst I'll likely never see eye to eye with most in regards to the matter my concern lies with what I want from something I've purchased.

    People love to judge others I guess that makes them feel good about themselves and forget their own flaws/faults. Here let me give you something (besides a million other things) to dislike about me.

    I will most certainly backup my own games onto a HDD and play them via an external HDD as soon as NTFS or WFS support is included. Call it piracy, call it what you like, I'll be doing just that. I'm not planing on doing this and going online on PSN, I plan on buying another PS3 solely for this purpose.

    ...and I'll be doing that because I can.
    Whatever you want from the console doesn't mean you can step over other peoples rights. You agreed to terms for using the PS3 when operating it and especially after updating it.

    You can do whatever you want to your PS3. There is no passing judgment there. What I am pointing out, is that it simply isn't right to subvert the software and claim higher ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kydosan View Post
    We should be able to do whatever we want with the software short of redistributing any part of it.
    You "should" be able to do whatever you want, as long as it follows what you and the company agreed upon. Every company gives you some sort of license to deal with their firmware or software. The reason being, is because most are proprietary.

    2. RESTRICTIONS

    You may not lease, rent, sublicense, publish, modify, adapt, or translate any portion of the System Software. To the fullest extent permitted by law, you may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the System Software, or create any derivative works, or otherwise attempt to create System Software source code from its object code. You may not (i) use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit, or modified hardware or software in connection with the System Software, including use of tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism for the PS3™ system; (ii) violate any laws, regulations or statutes, or rights of SCE, its affiliated companies, or third parties in connection with your access to or use of the System Software, including the access, use, or distribution of any software or hardware that you know or should have known to be infringing or pirated; (iii) use any hardware or software to cause the System Software to accept or use unauthorized, illegal, or pirated software or hardware; (iv) obtain the System Software in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods; or (v) exploit the System Software in any manner other than to use it in your PS3™ system in accordance with the accompanying documentation and with authorized software or hardware, including use of the System Software to design, develop, update, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware for use in connection with the PS3™ system for any reason. Without limiting the scope of SCE's remedies, any violation of these restrictions will void the PS3™ system's warranty and affect your ability to obtain warranty services and repair services from SCE or its affiliated companies.
    http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html

    You own a PS3.... you basically agreed to this. This language has been the same from the jump (this is not sony's first time dealing with their consoles being tampered with) and you agreed to this every time you updated your firmware. So you are not on any sort of moral or legal high ground if you believe you can do "whatever" you want to the software. You can also lie on the stand of a court case even after swearing an oath on the bible. Nothing is stopping you from doing whatever you want to do, of course but that doesn't make it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kydosan View Post
    I would put forward the argument that laws which tell us what we can and can't do with the hardware or software on anything we buy are ridiculous. If I want to tinker with the internals of my roomba to make it bark like a dog that should be fine - even though the same technology would allow me to play pirated mp3s on it.
    because you should be able to do whatever you want with all of your other examples.
    Sure... except that just means you choose to believe what you want to believe. There is ramification for every action and from what I have seen and I believe, as long as your willing to accept the ramification of your actions you are free to do whatever you want. Tinker with the hardware..... but then don't complain about the voided warranty. Modify the official software... but don't complain when you can't use their service, or properly operate any of their official release after you modify it or even worse... get sued if you try to distribute it.

    And the Roomba is a different discussion entirely. There is a reason the iRobot create was released, and that was so hobbyist could toy with that instead of hacking the roomba. But they really couldn't and wouldn't say much because those that hacked the roomba, normally just created their own firmware from scratch instead of modifying the preexisting one. There are also many open source software and resources to help out with this.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kydosan View Post

    Microwaves are in a slightly different category for me because of the danger factor, but you could **** yourself up with any number of things in your house by being a dumb *** - thats the category people who hurt themselves modding microwaves belong in


    meh, why not? Piracy is one thing, but if I just want to screw around in Linux and turn a box I bought into a nifty little media centre, so what? The concept of not having ownership of the bits and bytes on the various media in your house is pretty cuckoobananas, is it not?
    No its not. The same laws and rights that protect these big companies also apply to individuals and small startups that actually want to create something. of course you may not see it if you are on the other side of the coin, benefiting from exploiting someone else's hard work and efforts but it certainly isn't the decent thing and it is definitely something that is viewed differently when personal gain is involved.
    Last edited by Staticneuron; 09-03-2010 at 23:07.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    Whatever you want from the console doesn't mean you can step over other peoples rights. You agreed to terms for using the PS3 when operating it and especially after updating it.
    I can agree I'm not fully complying with their terms and conditions. But to say I'm "stepping over other people's rights" I can't comprehend who or what I'm hurting by using a separate system (I paid that corp my money for) and refraining from using their online infrastructures. If i was stealing from these corps I'd say you're right but tell me am I stealing content I'm paying for? Is it stealing because the corps tell me I am?

    Ever rented a game? According to corps out there such a person is no different than a pirate, you must certainly agree to this also am I right? If so I commend you (personally i haven't rent anything in a while) but hey these corps obviously do not want us to rent games either and consider it piracy even.
    Gaming on all platforms right now.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    I can agree I'm not fully complying with their terms and conditions. But to say I'm "stepping over other people's rights" I can't comprehend who or what I'm hurting by using a separate system (I paid that corp my money for) and refraining from using their online infrastructures. If i was stealing from these corps I'd say you're right but tell me am I stealing content I'm paying for? Is it stealing because the corps tell me I am?

    Ever rented a game? According to corps out there such a person is no different than a pirate, you must certainly agree to this also am I right? If so I commend you (personally i haven't rent anything in a while) but hey these corps obviously do not want us to rent games either and consider it piracy even.

    You lost me after quoting the "stepping on rights" part then jumping to stealing and separate systems talk. I was being very specific and focused when I said that. I mean subverting the software for ANY reason, is stepping on the rights. You are infringing upon the agreement. I never walked down the path of what happens "After" you mod the software because the convo can go in far to many directions after that. Personally I am the type of person who thinks the XMBC is awesome. If someone came in and made a custom OS for the PS3, that is something I couldn't say anything about and neither could sony unless it contained official code. I respect the ingenuity of some of these programmers but subverting the software is another thing. Would it be cool if people started subverting boxee simply because they didn't like the features? That isn't cool and even worse if people did it knowing how boxee started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    I certainly never approved the removal of features.
    Ya, me neither.
    So why did they remove the OS again? Oh ya to prevent the console from being hacked...wait...what?..damn, how´s that working for them now.
    So does this mean they can re-implement the OS function now since it doesn´t matter? jk

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    I downloaded the Halo Reach retail game...I have since deleted Halo Reach because I still buy my games! I did the same thing with GTA IV and went ahead and purchased both console versions of the game!
    Respectfully, I doubt you did this through any kind of altruism, I expect you just want(ed) to play online and had to buy the retail game in order to do so.



    I'm a big proponent of open source/homebrew, but let's leave current gen games out of the equation because it's not about those at all.

  10. #310
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    @Static,

    I read what you said but came from it with more questions and whilst I comprehend what you're saying, felt you didn't address what I asked whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by aries300 View Post
    Ya, me neither.
    So why did they remove the OS again? Oh ya to prevent the console from being hacked...wait...what?..damn, how´s that working for them now.
    So does this mean they can re-implement the OS function now since it doesn´t matter? jk
    Sony should have patched the exploit. The guys like JaicraB even stated it could be patched, instead Sony dropped it altogether

    Quote Originally Posted by gameplaya96 View Post
    Respectfully, I doubt you did this through any kind of altruism, I expect you just want(ed) to play online and had to buy the retail game in order to do so.
    I've been awfully honest to even state that I downloaded the game much like i did GTA IV back in 2008, buying the games was to support the developers of a game I wanted. I didn't have to mention I downloaded Reach and I didn't have to mention I deleted it before completing the SP either.

    Respectfully I'd say you do not understand my situation and have commented prematurely on the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by gameplaya96 View Post
    I'm a big proponent of open source/homebrew, but let's leave current gen games out of the equation because it's not about those at all.
    I discussed the games only because it was mentioned earlier. I don't exploit a console because I thrive on piracy, I exploit a console because that's a hobby of mine, just as gaming is.
    Last edited by A7MAD; 09-04-2010 at 00:20.
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  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    Sony should have patched the exploit. The guys like JaicraB even stated it could be patched, instead Sony dropped it altogether
    Sony never supported linux, never claimed to either. They only supported other OS. The fix was to remove other OS thanks to people starting to abuse it. This distinction is probably what is going to help sony win against the lawsuits because people forget they dealt with this in some capacity during the PS1 generation AND the PS2 generation. Considering neither you nor the supposed hackers know the full ramifications of sony trying to patch the linux build ( I would imagine it would involve tweaks to the hypervisor) then I doubt claims of what can be fixed and what couldn't be fixed are valid. Sony's luck with the frothing masses means they would be skewered if they attempted to fix something, then broke something else in the process. Possibly something the actually majority of gamers used.

  12. #312
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    Personally in this matter when the guys who have found exploits via Other OS tell me how they themselves could patch the solution I take their word for it. They didn;t claim it was 'unstoppable' JaicraB actually said we could patch this, what's holding Sony back from patching it if they really wanted the option to have remained?

    Doesn't make much sense to get rid of something if you still wanted to offer the feature you once advertised as a selling point for your system.

    If a bunch of hackers can find the exploits I'm going to find it difficult to believe Sony could not have and was left with no other choice but to rid the entire system of Other OS.

    It's easy to blame Geohot for this, but he's just a scape goat.
    Gaming on all platforms right now.

  13. #313
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    Here's food for thought on a hobby.

    Satellite piracy, 4-5 years ago was a hobby. It was a very enjoyable hobby. You could buy this card, called "atmega128", you need to know how to j-tag a receiver, write the TSOP to the receiver, and also you needed to be able to write the .pfg file for the atmega script (the .pfg runs on the atmega).

    Since none of this matters now, and atmegas have been LONG dead (since the Nagra 3 inception last June, all piracy on DishNet has been totally shut-down)...it's safe to say I would partake in the hobby of atmega testing. I enjoyed it. Thoroughly.

    This box, called a "Free To Air STB" jumped into the "hobby". The thing about the hobby was you had people who popped cards and wrote blockers/scripts to them, and you had atmega scriptors, like myself, who jtagged boxes and wrote their own .pfg scripts. We added/took away what channels we wanted.
    Coders were hired by the "Free To Air" manufacturers to write scripts that could be placed on their FTA box, and using a remote control and a USB stick, all people had to do was log onto a website, download a file, extract it to USB stick, and then plug it into their FTA box...then using the remote, select the file and load it. Once the file was loaded into the EEPROM of the STB, the user could view Dish unencrypted..until Dish sent an ECM to counter the piracy exploit being used...then coders would wait until we (the atmega and card-hacking people) put our patch on sites..the FTA coders would reverse engineer our work, and would make a file for their box to rip off our script. The FTA box seemingly ruined a hobby of testers who were a silent breed.

    No matter WHAT we did to write scripts, block our cards, etc, ALL of us always ...no matter what...kept a subscription to DN. We didn't do what we did just to save money each month, or to watch free porn. We did it because we enjoyed it, and it was always something new to learn.

    The FTA customers called themselves "testers" and "hobbiests" too..even though NONE of them knew anything about writing a script...or J-tagging a box. They didn't have to know either. They simply download a file and put it on their box, and watched tv. No scripting involved..no learning anything. All they had to know was how to use a remote control. And they jumped on our site(s), said "we're just here to enjoy the hobby" and took up FTA by the masses..everyone and their momma wanted an FTA box because it was SO easy to steal TV.

    This reminds me SO much of that. There's actually a LOT of similarities...but just like with FTA and us script writers who worked to learn and evolve our methods, there are those now who just want the ease of not having to do certain things. The ease of using a remote..it all follows the same path when you consider the PS3 and motive behind wanting this hack to come to fruition.

    There's no learning, it's not a hobby to do this hack on the PS3, it's not some learning experience...it's just what it is. There's no methodology to it, no learning curve, no advanced concepts..it's even worse for those who want to use it, because it doesn't require anything but plug it up, and hit backup..or whatever. No scripting, no open-source work, no using you own "scripts" to accomplish a task...same as with FTA boxes. Put a file on it, hit some buttons, and it does the rest while you enjoy.

    It's safe to say that satellite piracy, the way I did it..I wasn't even using the software that DN put on the receivers...because I wrote my own TSOP and my own .pfg scripts...so my TSOP told the receiver how to operate, and my .pfg answered the questions that the TSOP and EEPROM asked the card to generate...

    I hope none of that was too technical..but there is just no way to excuse this thru "i'm open sourcing" or any other freeware-type activity. It still uses the proprietary software engineered and designed by a company who spent the money to make the device and hardware, spent to bring the OS to life, and spent to bring the games being played.

    Thank GOODNESS they have the money to continue to pay developers to invent the code and engines for games, and they have the money to continue to provide updates to PSN and games released...but I often wonder if they quit RIGHT NOW and dropped support for the PS3..and SONY just up and left the console gaming market..would people STILL have the HUGE interest in using their stuff, modding their devices and using things to get their games? I think not. Folks want SONY to continue spending to give games so that they can be "backed up" and handed out like a trojan attached to a pirated Metallica album.


    'It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.' - Abraham Lincoln

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    I also believe they could have patched the other OS function if they had wanted to.
    They just jumped on the pretext of GeoHot and got rid of a feature they no longer wanted to support.
    I never saw one backup of a ps3 game being run with GeoHots exploit. There was a lot of smoke and Sony yelled "FIRE"
    Last edited by aries300; 09-04-2010 at 01:04.

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    I used to mod the old Jerrold/Motorola STB's remember those? I also dabbled a little in Seca decryption (Seca 1) as well as Foxtel (sister service of SKY) back in the Irdeto 1 days (mindport work arounds) but I moved away from that hobby really.

    I seen what people were doing with the Dreambox DM units and card sharing bla bla, but I moved on however during the entire time i still paid for my legitimate sub, something not many people do/did.

    Quote Originally Posted by aries300 View Post
    I also believe they could have patched it if they had wanted to.
    They just jumped on the pretext of GeoHot and got rid of a feature they no longer wanted to support.
    I never saw one backup of a ps3 game being run with GeoHots exploit. There was a lot of smoke and Sony yelled "FIRE"
    I've heard that Move was the reason we lost Other OS, Geohot was the scape goat. As you cleverly pointed out that nothing came about by way of piracy from anything Geohot discussed and even when they dumped the Game OS... Piracy was non-existent!

    Until now and through another means... Who'd have though mimicking a USB hub would do the trick.
    Last edited by A7MAD; 09-04-2010 at 01:09. Reason: Fixing
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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    @Static,

    I read what you said but came from it with more questions and whilst I comprehend what you're saying, felt you didn't address what I asked whatsoever.

    Sorry I didn't notice this.

    Now that I reread this, I think I understand you are talking about the THQ situation right.

    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    If i was stealing from these corps I'd say you're right but tell me am I stealing content I'm paying for? Is it stealing because the corps tell me I am?

    Ever rented a game? According to corps out there such a person is no different than a pirate, you must certainly agree to this also am I right? If so I commend you (personally i haven't rent anything in a while) but hey these corps obviously do not want us to rent games either and consider it piracy even.
    What the THQ developer Cory Ledesma said was that

    We hope people understand that when the game's bought used we get cheated.
    What somehow got thrown into the mix is what a penny arcade writer Jerry Holkins said

    " I honestly can't figure out how buying a used game was any better than piracy. From the the perspective of a developer, they are almost certainly synonymous."


    So I am not sure what nameless corps your thinking of but this is the only reactions that are recent that I think will cause you to think so. First... because this is the easiest. No corporation thinks people who rent games are pirates. The companies that distribute rented titles normally have to pay a very high amount to get special deals and warranty on these game discs (specially marked for rental), especially if they are day and date rentals.

    Given what Jerry said, you have to take his "interpretation" about it because he is a comic writer and doesn't make games for a living really. I don't think he is privy to the research and numbers provided at all. And it does seem to sound like speculation on his part so lets leave it at that.

    As far as what the THQ dev says, you can take it many ways.

    1. He could be talking financially. Normally after paying the publisher back every game sold is pure profit. But if the initial wave of gamers didn't cover the sales that were needed to match production costs, then the devs are out of pocket.

    2. He could simply be talking about prestige. Numbers sold probably need to be high to match an internal quota so the studio can stay alive, or before a dev can ship his title as a success.

    3. Online support. believe it or not, not every game is setup with the idea that EVERY person who purchased a copy will play online. Within budget they normally plan for a certain percentage of players (give or take a few) and they plan for attrition rates of the initial players. Since this is the first gen around in which online play is so prevalent pubs and devs are probably finding out the hard way that they are on the losing end financially on this deal.

    4. The idea is, as a new game player you should be treated special and have access to everything unfettered. As a used game player since you are asked to pony up a cost for playing online, that should lower the asking cost of a some titles so everyone should win in the end.


    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post

    Doesn't make much sense to get rid of something if you still wanted to offer the feature you once advertised as a selling point for your system.

    If a bunch of hackers can find the exploits I'm going to find it difficult to believe Sony could not have and was left with no other choice but to rid the entire system of Other OS.

    It's easy to blame Geohot for this, but he's just a scape goat.
    As said before, I don't think OtherOS was ever advertised. But the court cae will determine any official stance on what advertising is and Sony's limits on removing it.

    But yes, since sony said from the start that they didn't support linux directly, any issue with linux resulted in the removal of other OS. Do you think that they don't have enough on their plate to combat something they really don't need to? Why would devs needed to be taken off of current projects to fix that.

    You are trying to assign blame for this to Sony but the situation is clear cut. And the argument you are presenting is illogical. Sony didn't support any of the operating systems you could install using other OS. That means they didn't have a team nor resource created to tackle the issue. So It is how it played out. The feature was supported instead of the end result. The end result caused a problem, the feature gets removed. Geohot and his adventures are the cause because it was fine for years before his well publicized yet virtually non existent hacks were brought to light.

    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    Until now and through another means... Who'd have though mimicking a USB hub would do the trick.

    Oh I dunno.... people using official sony hardware and code to emulate the jigstick and the calls it created.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post

    Now that I reread this, I think I understand you are talking about the THQ situation right.

    What the THQ developer Cory Ledesma said was that

    What somehow got thrown into the mix is what a penny arcade writer Jerry Holkins said

    So I am not sure what nameless corps your thinking of but this is the only reactions that are recent that I think will cause you to think so.
    Not exactly but this too revived the thoughts and discussions

    http://www.techspot.com/news/38934-g...an-piracy.html

    I was discussing some others but I found this one from Blitz co-founder Andrew Oliver.

    In fact, Oliver believes the impact of second-hand sales is a "much bigger problem than piracy on the main consoles."
    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    As said before, I don't think OtherOS was ever advertised. But the court case will determine any official stance on what advertising is and Sony's limits on removing it.

    But yes, since sony said from the start that they didn't support linux directly, any issue with linux resulted in the removal of other OS. Do you think that they don't have enough on their plate to combat something they really don't need to? Why would devs needed to be taken off of current projects to fix that.

    You are trying to assign blame for this to Sony but the situation is clear cut. And the argument you are presenting is illogical. Sony didn't support any of the operating systems you could install using other OS. That means they didn't have a team nor resource created to tackle the issue. So It is how it played out. The feature was supported instead of the end result. The end result caused a problem, the feature gets removed. Geohot and his adventures are the cause because it was fine for years before his well publicized yet virtually non existent hacks were brought to light.
    If I understand what you're saying; you're telling me there is no association with Sony corp encouraging or advertising the use of Other OS and/or Linux distro's?

    Software Review: Yellow Dog Linux 5 for PlayStation 3

    http://blogcritics.org/gaming/articl...#ixzz0yW7Jo8kJ

    As part of an agreement with Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated, Terra Soft Solutions announced last year the release of Yellow Dog Linux for the PlayStation 3. Terra Soft has also partnered with RapidMind to make application development for the PS3/Cell architecture easier.
    http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/17/ps...low-dog-linux/

    Sony has as recently as August shown interest in bringing Linux or OS X to the console. Terra Soft's confirmation indicates that they either (a) are wishful thinkers or (b) have made a deal with Sony to bring their Linux variant to the super computer/game console behemoth. Video demonstrations might suggest they have a dev kit in house, but those have yet to materialize.
    http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html

    Sony Computer Entertainment Inc., PS3 Open Platform, 2006-2010:
    [quote]"In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3™ system to run the Linux operating system. By installing the Linux operating system, you can use the PS3™ system not only as an entry-level personal computer with hundreds of familiar applications for home and office use, but also as a complete development environment for the Cell Broadband Engine™ (Cell/B.E.)."

    ^^ I don't know, maybe I am incorrect but that sure sounds like an ad for Linux/Other OS...

    I mean disregard that my manual discusses it or it's on the back of my old 40GB PS3 box...

    As for you saying it's not Sony's fault we no longer have Other OS, and that I'm blaming them (without a just reason) let me give you Sony's answer as to why the PS3 Slim never had install Other OS enabled.

    http://www.osnews.com/story/22073/Wh...m_Sony_Answers

    I’m sorry that you are frustrated by the lack of comment specifically regarding the withdrawal of support for OtherOS on the new PS3 slim. The reasons are simple: The PS3 Slim is a major cost reduction involving many changes to hardware components in the PS3 design. In order to offer the OtherOS install, SCE would need to continue to maintain the OtherOS hypervisor drivers for any significant hardware changes – this costs SCE. One of our key objectives with the new model is to pass on cost savings to the consumer with a lower retail price. Unfortunately in this case the cost of OtherOS install did not fit with the wider objective to offer a lower cost PS3.
    They were going to scrape this regardless. Geohot was a scape goat solution to what they wanted to do already and the Slim was a testament to that reality.

    Oh snap some BS here too..

    Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue the support for previously sold models that have the “Install Other OS” feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases.
    Where's the continued support?
    Where's my Other OS for my old 40GB SKU I sold then?

    Not good. Use Geohot as a scape goat and go back on all your promises... How about that eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    Oh I dunno.... people using official sony hardware and code to emulate the jigstick and the calls it created.
    What's done is done, it was still made possible and that was my point in my comment.
    Last edited by A7MAD; 09-04-2010 at 02:11.
    Gaming on all platforms right now.

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    As far as the piracy/used sale argument goes, it probably falls under the same reasoning I used above That is why companies are charging for online play and nothing else. If you pirate a title you do not cost the company on MP (normally) and most won't consider you a lost sale because chances are you weren't going to purchase it in the first place anyways.

    As far as those "advertisments" Most of those come From ydl manuals which were written by fixstars and linked through from sony's site and mentioning an agreement with terrasoft was news not an advert.

    Part omitted
    Thank you for choosing Yellow Dog Linux!
    When Sony Computer Entertainment designed the PLAYSTATIONŽ3 (PS3™), it was fully intended that you, a PS3 owner could play games, watch movies, view photos, listen to music, and run a fullfeatured Linux operating system that transforms your PS3 into a home computer.

    "This Guide to Installation is written specifically for the Sony Computer Entertainment PLAYSTATIONŽ3. This Guide does not offer instructions specific to other computers (ie. Apple Power Macintosh) supported by Yellow Dog Linux. Installation instructions for other computers are available from Fixstars' website.
    Refer to us.fixstars.com/support/ for updates, issues specific with unique computer configurations, and engineering notes."
    http://ydl.net/support/installation/..._ps3_guide.pdf
    http://ydl.net/support/installation/
    And as far as that official reps discussion... it makes no sense to try to use that as a reason why it was removed. Why would sony have to "maintain" a driver on a fixed system? You see the slims had new hardware so contextually speaking it makes sense, but the older units obviously did not have changes to their hardwares so what costs were incurred? What changes to the drivers were needed? Who is this rep? What region is he from? Is he even authorized to speak on this (meaning are you sure he isn't a janitor or something). The nameless knowledgeble sony rep strikes again.

    Again, Sony didn't advertise this and the only thing people are grasping at are manuals for linux written by a different company and news articles. I really don't expect this advertised feature argument to hold up in court at all. Especially with those tenuous strands.

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    I gave you a playstation.com link right there that's not an advert? Is the PS3 retail box I purchased not an ad when it mentions ability to install other operating systems?

    You said Sony never directly supported Linux yet I showed you an agreement for Sony and Terra Soft Solutions to bring Yellow Dog Linux to the PS3...

    As for Sony spinning crap telling us one thing in regards to Other OS and then doing another that's not the first time and the guy's a rep, if he's not authorized to speak on the matter likely he wouldn't have said what he did.

    Me quoting that was far from illogical it was posted with 2 points in mind;

    1. Sony already cut it before any scare came about from Geohot
    2. For the phat's a Sony rep claimed they'd continue support & no future update would ever disable the feature.

    Add to that hackers stating they themselves could patch the exploit in regards to Other OS, I'm no longer capable of buying that Geohot is at fault.
    Gaming on all platforms right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    I gave you a playstation.com link right there that's not an advert? Is the PS3 retail box I purchased not an ad when it mentions ability to install other operating systems?

    You said Sony never directly supported Linux yet I showed you an agreement for Sony and Terra Soft Solutions to bring Yellow Dog Linux to the PS3...

    As for Sony spinning crap telling us one thing in regards to Other OS and then doing another that's not the first time and the guy's a rep, if he's not authorized to speak on the matter likely he wouldn't have said what he did.

    Me quoting that was far from illogical it was posted with 2 points in mind;

    1. Sony already cut it before any scare came about from Geohot
    2. For the phat's a Sony rep claimed they'd continue support & no future update would ever disable the feature.

    Add to that hackers stating they themselves could patch the exploit in regards to Other OS, I'm no longer capable of buying that Geohot is at fault.
    1. I am saying on that PS3 page it is copypasta from warranties because also on that same page
    As Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCE) does not develop or directly support a version of Linux for the PS3™ system, SCE is pleased to provide links for the following Linux distributions that support the PS3™ system:
    Note that SCE does not provide any support for the installation and the use of Linux operating systems on a PS3™ system. For technical support, you must contact the Linux distributor or community that provided your Linux operating system.
    Not just once, but twice on that same page.

    2> That quote was attributed to making drivers for different hardware configuration, that quote was why the slim didn't have linux and it doesn't make sense to push it as the reason they removed it from the older versions because the drivers were already made. Software development goes forward not backwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    It is your right to do whatever you want with the hardware. But it is not your right to modify the Official OS nor the functions of the OS that the IP holder has. This was brought up once before in the linux removal thread. You cannot have your cake and eat it to.

    You want to turn your PS3 into a linux box, go ahead. You want it to run windows or be specifically for homebrew, then fine. I really find it hard to believe that anyone should care that the people doing this are trying to retain the some of functions of the original OS then modify it, then say its for freedom. That is nonsense. You are not free to subvert someone elses software, period. It is not ok on PC's, it is not ok on closed devices like DVD players or microwaves, why on earth would it be ok for the PS3.

    I really don't understand how people actually think that its ok to hack these companies software. To me it seems selfish and self centered. Whether the argument is for price (you are not entitled to have everything), protection of media (we already established you BRs can take pure abuse and still work), or even freedom. The jailbreaks and the sticks are easily detectable, sony has not released a fix for this and I already can see the wave of complaints painting sony as evil for trying to protect their stuff.
    I have the right to remove the Sony OS, and put a different OS on there. Mainly a rewritten OS, i.e custom firmware. Now, I didn't write the custom firmware, so I haven't modified it. I'm simply replacing the official OS with a modified OS. I've not broken any laws, NOR have I violated any EULA. So... anything else I need to clarify?




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I have the right to remove the Sony OS, and put a different OS on there. Mainly a rewritten OS, i.e custom firmware. Now, I didn't write the custom firmware, so I haven't modified it. I'm simply replacing the official OS with a modified OS. I've not broken any laws, NOR have I violated any EULA. So... anything else I need to clarify?
    I posted this above for kydosan and I will do so here for you...

    2. RESTRICTIONS

    You may not lease, rent, sublicense, publish, modify, adapt, or translate any portion of the System Software. To the fullest extent permitted by law, you may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the System Software, or create any derivative works, or otherwise attempt to create System Software source code from its object code. You may not (i) use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit, or modified hardware or software in connection with the System Software, including use of tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism for the PS3™ system; (ii) violate any laws, regulations or statutes, or rights of SCE, its affiliated companies, or third parties in connection with your access to or use of the System Software, including the access, use, or distribution of any software or hardware that you know or should have known to be infringing or pirated; (iii) use any hardware or software to cause the System Software to accept or use unauthorized, illegal, or pirated software or hardware; (iv) obtain the System Software in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods; or (v) exploit the System Software in any manner other than to use it in your PS3™ system in accordance with the accompanying documentation and with authorized software or hardware, including use of the System Software to design, develop, update, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware for use in connection with the PS3™ system for any reason. Without limiting the scope of SCE's remedies, any violation of these restrictions will void the PS3™ system's warranty and affect your ability to obtain warranty services and repair services from SCE or its affiliated companies.
    http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html

    You own a PS3.... you basically agreed to this. This language has been the same from the jump (this is not sony's first time dealing with their consoles being tampered with) and you agreed to this every time you updated your firmware.

    For your concern specifically

    use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit, or modified hardware or software in connection with the System Software, including use of tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism for the PS3™ system;
    and
    including the access, use, or distribution of any software or hardware that you know or should have known to be infringing or pirated; (iii) use any hardware or software to cause the System Software to accept or use unauthorized, illegal, or pirated software or hardware; (iv) obtain the System Software in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods; or (v) exploit the System Software in any manner other than to use it in your PS3™ system in accordance with the accompanying documentation and with authorized software or hardware, including use of the System Software to design, develop, update, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware for use in connection with the PS3™ system for any reason.
    Which covers both the USB drive that initiates the exploits and the custom OS that has Sony code in it.

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    I read every post in this thread, and none of what you repeated applies to me. Sorry.

    For the sake of argument though, let's say I did ALL that. The only thing I've done is voided my warranty. Oh well.
    Last edited by F34R; 09-04-2010 at 04:02.




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    Read it again FEAR

    "Without limiting the scope of SCE's remedies, any violation of these restrictions will void the PS3™ system's warranty and affect your ability to obtain warranty services and repair services from SCE or its affiliated companies."

    Obviously points out that it is up to SCE's discretion on the way such incidents are handled.

    Hackers may try to sugar coat system exploits, hacking, modding or whatever but in the end, it's illegal and may damage gaming for the rest of us. I know it might not be your intention FEAR but there's no way of knowing what other people are capable of.

    Oh I just thought of a question for you: Is hacking a game so that you would have an advantage online righteous? I mean, it is MY game. Why not?

    Just curious


    Nirai Kanai

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    I guess I'll address their remedies if it ever were to get that far. As of now, I've only voided my warranty. I'm ok with that. As far as your question goes, no, I don't think it's right for people to gain an advantage by using exploits online. I think it'd be fine to use those same exploits to do whatever offline though.




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