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  1. #3976
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonable_doubt View Post
    if they can go on the internet and look for CFW and follow instruction and install it. Then how can they not be intelligent enough to look through the box and read the manual?

    kinda backward don't u think?

    and no u can't renovate ur house however u want. It has to be approved first.

    tell that to the consumer freedom fighter.
    Completely depends where you live too. Where I live I can do what I want to my home. There are city codes and such in many cities but there are also homes that are unincorporated.

    You are also assuming that people are smart enough. Assumptions will not win in court. I have not read my owners manual or the back of my PS3 box.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    Completely depends where you live too. Where I live I can do what I want to my home. There are city codes and such in many cities but there are also homes that are unincorporated.

    You are also assuming that people are smart enough. Assumptions will not win in court. I have not read my owners manual or the back of my PS3 box.
    You are safe then if big bad Sony come a knockin'


    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Ok... I was wrong. Happy?

  3. #3978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post

    You are also assuming that people are smart enough. Assumptions will not win in court. I have not read my owners manual or the back of my PS3 box.
    If you took it to court you would lose. I mentioned it before because there is already precedence, for people feigning ignorance despite information being on box and in manual. You would not win with that and of course a judge would ask you the same thing. Judges are logical as well. The question would come up about how can you go to the internet look up info how to hack PS3 and download the data, and somehow couldn't muster the effort to see the manuals.

  4. #3979
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    Quote Originally Posted by T0PGUN View Post
    You are safe then if big bad Sony come a knockin'
    If I never accepted the user agreement when I logged online I would be extremely safe. That is the only thing Sony has going for themselves right now. And if Sony did knock on my door the only thing they could say is "Sir we are banning your account from the PSN". Then I say, "Well damn man! Give me at least $30 back from my PS Plus sub!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    If I never accepted the user agreement when I logged online I would be extremely safe. That is the only thing Sony has going for themselves right now. And if Sony did knock on my door the only thing they could say is "Sir we are banning your account from the PSN". Then I say, "Well damn man! Give me at least $30 back from my PS Plus sub!"
    If you have a PS+ sub then you had to have accepted the user agreement.

  6. #3981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    If you have a PS+ sub then you had to have accepted the user agreement.
    That is why I said Sony would tell me that my account is banned...... That is all Sony could do to me. Because it is not illegal to put custom firmware on your PS3.

  7. #3982
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    Got a legit question for the modders...

    If you had to sign an agreement (much like a mobile phone contract) when you got your PS3's....would you have still bought it?


    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Ok... I was wrong. Happy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    So am I. There is a counter for any analogy anyone can come up with which makes it pointless to try to explain why some think you do not own what you buy
    I would use Rogero if the interface was not so crappy. I like multiMAN because of the many different layouts you can choose from. I like scrolling through the different PS3 cover art to choose my game.
    yeah i know what oyu mean i havent updated my multiman in awhile, you use kmeaw and what was the homebrew used to download other homebrew directly from your ps3 caqlled?

    Quote Originally Posted by T0PGUN View Post
    Got a legit question for the modders...

    If you had to sign an agreement (much like a mobile phone contract) when you got your PS3's....would you have still bought it?
    you walked into this one. It is 100% completely legal to jailbreak mobilephones so yes i would and i would still mod it

    Please no double posting- staticneuron
    Last edited by Staticneuron; 03-07-2011 at 01:54.



  9. #3984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    you walked into this one. It is 100% completely legal to jailbreak mobilephones so yes i would and i would still mod it
    I didnt walk into sh*t.
    I said much like a mobile phone contract,which i meant as in you have to physically sign for it,agreeing with the TOS and EULA of SCE.


    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Ok... I was wrong. Happy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T0PGUN View Post
    I didnt walk into sh*t.
    I said much like a mobile phone contract,which i meant as in you have to physically sign for it,agreeing with the TOS and EULA of SCE.
    And it it completely legal to jailbreak a mobile phone, so if you compare it to that then it should be completely legal to jailbreak a ps3



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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    If I never accepted the user agreement when I logged online I would be extremely safe. That is the only thing Sony has going for themselves right now. And if Sony did knock on my door the only thing they could say is "Sir we are banning your account from the PSN". Then I say, "Well damn man! Give me at least $30 back from my PS Plus sub!"
    Actually it is a grey area. And I am not sure why you think that the PSN agreement and the Software Eula are the same. You agreed to the PSN agreement only once, you agree to the software euala/tos everytime you update your machine.

    1. It is not illegal to run a totally custom OS but it is against the EULA/TOS to run an OS with partial Sony code and to circumvent the security to install the software. The the court cases now with hotz is going to show if the DMCA is applicable in this case.

    2. You won't escape the agreement if you use your PS3 offline
    9. GENERAL LEGAL

    By using or accessing the System Software, you agree to be bound by all current terms of this Agreement. To access a printable, current copy of this Agreement, go to http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ on your personal computer. SCE, at its sole discretion, may modify the terms of this Agreement at any time, including any terms in the PS3™ system documentation or manual, or at http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-license/index.html. Please check back on this website from time to time for changes to this Agreement. Your continued access to or use of the System Software will signify your acceptance of any changes to this Agreement. In the event of any conflict between this Agreement and the Terms of Service and User Agreement for SCE's online network, the terms of this Agreement shall control the use of or access to, the System Software.
    Not that I believe sony will waste the money going after individual users, I am just pointing out to you that your comments denote some sort of security, you do not possess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    you walked into this one. It is 100% completely legal to jailbreak mobilephones so yes i would and i would still mod it
    Mobile phones do have this exemption but consoles still do not. So it still wouldn't be ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    And it it completely legal to jailbreak a mobile phone, so if you compare it to that then it should be completely legal to jailbreak a ps3
    Doesn't work like that, different devices, different business, different sections under the DMCA.

  12. #3987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    Actually it is a grey area. And I am not sure why you think that the PSN agreement and the Software Eula are the same. You agreed to the PSN agreement only once, you agree to the software euala/tos everytime you update your machine.

    1. It is not illegal to run a totally custom OS but it is against the EULA/TOS to run an OS with partial Sony code and to circumvent the security to install the software. The the court cases now with hotz is going to show if the DMCA is applicable in this case.

    2. You won't escape the agreement if you use your PS3 offline
    Not that I believe sony will waste the money going after individual users, I am just pointing out to you that your comments denote some sort of security, you do not possess.



    Mobile phones do have this exemption but consoles still do not. So it still wouldn't be ok.



    Doesn't work like that, different devices, different business, different sections under the DMCA.
    but hes comparing the ps3 to mobile phones



  13. #3988
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    9. GENERAL LEGAL

    By using or accessing the System Software, you agree to be bound by all current terms of this Agreement. To access a printable, current copy of this Agreement, go to http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ on your personal computer. SCE, at its sole discretion, may modify the terms of this Agreement at any time, including any terms in the PS3™ system documentation or manual, or at http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-license/index.html. Please check back on this website from time to time for changes to this Agreement. Your continued access to or use of the System Software will signify your acceptance of any changes to this Agreement. In the event of any conflict between this Agreement and the Terms of Service and User Agreement for SCE's online network, the terms of this Agreement shall control the use of or access to, the System Software.
    Once again, if I do not use it online there is nothing Sony can do. Basically it says do what what you want but you are not allowed to go online with any modifications to their software.

  14. #3989
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    but hes comparing the ps3 to mobile phones
    No, im not.


    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Ok... I was wrong. Happy?

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    multiMAN 1.16.07 just released.

    multiMAN 1.16.07 CHANGELOG
    Removed prompt/requirement for BD game disc when launching BSG games
    Added: [START]+[R2] to screen capture in RGB RAW format (to /dev_hdd0 or usb)
    Added: support for games without PIC0/1/2.PNG (delete cache folder)
    Added: "launch" pkg files from File Manager (install manually from XMB)
    Added: Refresh/delete/copy won't change currently selected game in the list
    Fixed: shadow copy function in File Manager ([R3])

  16. #3991
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    Quote Originally Posted by T0PGUN View Post
    Got a legit question for the modders...

    If you had to sign an agreement (much like a mobile phone contract) when you got your PS3's....would you have still bought it?
    Yes, and I would have still hacked it; just like my mobile phone. I rarely have a product that doesn't get hacked. I do have two legit 360's, a legit PS3, and a legit PSP; along side those, I have hacked "versions" too.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    Once again, if I do not use it online there is nothing Sony can do. Basically it says do what what you want but you are not allowed to go online with any modifications to their software.
    Comprehension lethal.
    In the event of any conflict between this Agreement and the Terms of Service and User Agreement for SCE's online network, the terms of this Agreement shall control the use of or access to, the System Software.
    The Software eula (what I quoted) and the TOS/agreement for the PSN are separate. This sentence is simply saying if there is any conflict between the two, that the EULA has the final say on system software. One is agreed upon for use of software while the other was agreed upon when you created an account and accessed the PSN.

    The software EULA, makes sure to inform you that they CAN go after you using legal means.

    If SCE determines that you have violated the terms of this Agreement, SCE may take all actions to protect its interests, including denial of any services such as warranty services and repair services provided for your PS3™ system and termination of your access to PlayStationŽNetwork, implementation of upgrades or devices intended to discontinue unauthorized use, or reliance on any other remedial efforts as reasonably necessary to prevent the use of a modified PS3™ system, or any pirated material or equipment. SCE and its licensors reserve the right to bring legal action in the event of a violation of this Agreement. SCE reserves the right to participate in any government or private legal action or investigation relating to your conduct.
    So not only denial of internet access and warranty services, they could bring legal action, and basically bring to the front any upgrade that can possibly break the pirated software interaction with the PS3.

  18. #3993
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    Comprehension lethal.


    The Software eula (what I quoted) and the TOS/agreement for the PSN are separate. This sentence is simply saying if there is any conflict between the two, that the EULA has the final say on system software. One is agreed upon for use of software while the other was agreed upon when you created an account and accessed the PSN.

    The software EULA, makes sure to inform you that they CAN go after you using legal means.



    So not only denial of internet access and warranty services, they could bring legal action, and basically bring to the front any upgrade that can possibly break the pirated software interaction with the PS3.
    If it was clear cut as you are saying then the court case would cut and dry. Yet Sony is still needing more grounds to convict Geohot and jailbreaking the PS3 is still not illegal. And in the end it comes back to the online aspects of this situation.
    Last edited by Staticneuron; 03-07-2011 at 05:45. Reason: oops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    If it was clear cut as you are saying then the court case would cut and dry. Yet Sony is still needing more grounds to convict Geohot and jailbreaking the PS3 is still not illegal. And in the end it comes back to the online aspects of this situation.
    Actually it is a different situation. Apparently when geo said he started hacking the PS3 (which is documented in interviews) he claimed to get the console from a friend. Meaning that he didn't purchase it and he probably didn't agree to the EULA. Because of that distinction they may have trouble pinning him for modifying the software but what they are going to go after him is distribution of their code which should be afforded some protections by copyright law instead of relying on contract law.

    So, trying to draw parallels between a regular customer and geo wouldn't fly to well mainly because he didn't seem to acquire the PS3 by normal methods (or at least what that they can prove) and he didn't seem interested in games/online, which separates him from most people like you, who not only purchased the device and recieved litany of warnings and eula, but most likely played the console, updated the console, played online agreeing to all the contracts along the way.

    Also, you bring up a spurious point because sony isn't going after Geo and others for contract law, they are going after them for violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.

    EDIT: For clarification, the reason why Sony most likely wants to establish that geo may have seen a contract is to establish that he knew the terms of use so he has knowledge that they didn't allow their software to be distributed by others.
    Last edited by Staticneuron; 03-07-2011 at 05:45. Reason: Clarification

  20. #3995
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    The problem is you aren't countering the discussion at hand. You are simply ignoring distinction. You can purchase a computer and the OS together and the resepective agreements are separate. The same deal with computers is the same thing for other software including games.

    And no, just because you purchase a home or a car, does NOT mean you can do anything with it. You are still subject to local, state and federal restrictions. Some countries are worse than others but that is a false assessment that you can do anything. Also more to the point, YOU DO NOT OWN THE SOFTWARE. It is not what you purchased. That is the simple fact people try to put across and the singular point people are ignoring and dancing around. The PS3 was not a package deal. You have desperate terms for hardware and software and its been that way for a very long time.

    I am tired of people IGNORING the point being brought up and then pretending like the other side of the discussion doesn't know the difference between owning a piece of hardware or tangible property and being licensed it.

    Y'know what. I am going to take it a step more and break it down because I feel as if people are being purposely obtuse but maybe it is a simple break down in communication.

    1. You purchase <any console> and Games.

    2. You own the hardware, but you only agree (either directly or upon use) to license the software of the console (hence the renting analogies because you have freedom of use within restrictions agreed upon from jump). Same thing goes with games.

    3. Hacking the PS3 to install completely unique (Code from ground up) is not explicitly allowed but it is not explicitly denied either.

    4. The contention is about modifying existing software and how much rights you have over existing software. Your rights are balanced between the law of the land and contract law.

    5. Just because you "say" you own something doesn't make it true in the eyes of the law. If you feel that since you "purchased" a PS3 that it gives you carte blanche rights over hardware and software, more power to ya. Just don't expect anyone NOT trying to rationalize these actions, to side with you when Sony tries more aggressive anti modification maneuvers.

    6. I personally, am not against you hacking your console. I am against people doing so and making network play intolerable. I am also against white washing the situation and being obtuse to the facts. People know the are doing something that can be considered morally and legally wrong but in self serving interest they are trying to blur the lines between software and hardware ownership. I find that to be a cowardly action separate and apart from a judgment call on the hacking itself.
    Very well said. You've done a better job of explaining some of the points I was trying to make. +rep (when I can -- can't atm.)

    --

    If you ask me my personal opinion on the matter I can give it to you but that's not what I have been arguing. There is a very clear line between what you own (to be able to do anything you want) over being given a set of rules that were agreed upon, etc.

    Should it be that way?

    Going by the opinions of some here -- it shouldn't be....well that is why we have this case and once it is over we'll all have a better idea.

    I'd really like to discuss this with those who want to do so (I've said I'd stay out but this is something I am interested in talking about -- sorry.)

    Although what need to be said, has been said for the most part.
    Last edited by sainraja; 03-07-2011 at 06:50.

  21. #3996
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    I thought sony started banning users online? my online friend hacked his ps3, and is on 3.55 able to go on and play backups and his retail gams. He's an online friend of mine but for that i'm hella

    up until that point, I thought sony was doing a good job of keeping them offline
    Quote Originally Posted by Fake_PSN
    The Playstation Blog guys are jerks. I just asked them what they were doing for lunch and they replied "We have no updates concerning lunch"



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    A lot of people have stopped using a CFW after the warnings. Some have been banned, some are still online. Don't be worried, your friend will soon need to buy another PS3 to go online

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    The best thing a person with a modded PS3 who wants to play online can do is to get another PS3 for online play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    The best thing a person with a modded PS3 who wants to play online can do is to get another PS3 for online play.
    yeppers.. +1 for this great suggestion.




  25. #4000
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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    The best thing a person with a modded PS3 who wants to play online can do is to get another PS3 for online play.
    That is exactly what I did. Although I do jump online with my hacked console every Tuesday to download some PS Plus stuff.

    Here is my latest vid.

    Last edited by Lethal; 03-08-2011 at 04:46.

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