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  1. #826
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    As I said in another thread, while this is possible, I do not believe it. The only possibility of this being feasible is if Major is reporting shipped. I am not trying to hate or wish doom and gloom; I am just being logical and the numbers do not add up. 24-hours in 13 countries the total sold was 1 million, which is reasonable. With black Friday and some stragglers for the first few days, jumping to over 800K sold within that week and last is impossible. That would mean the demand is greater than the mean and I doubt that is the case. That amount sold would cause MS to make statements similar to Sony regarding supply constraints. And guess what, they are not making those claims. This is a play of numbers. I know NPD will release soon and maybe we can get a clearer picture from there but until I see something logical to why they sold this amount, I will not believe it. If I am wrong, I am wrong and I will admit it.

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    They are doing good but why do they keep putting so much emphasis on these stats. They've updated that more than sales lol. But I know le thing that is helping is the marketing. Jesus I can't change the channel without seeing an X1 ad. They are doing slightly better than I expected. Strong start for sure considering the competition.




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    I don't see why they can't be true (or how)?

    Either way, it's a good thing. It means consoles are still relevant (arguably, if not MORE relevant than ever) and also means not having a company like Apple sell an overpriced console at $1000+ or whatever. And this is despite all the "reports" and opinions of home consoles dying.

    Good times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    I don't see why they can't be true (or how)?

    Either way, it's a good thing. It means consoles are still relevant (arguably, if not MORE relevant than ever) and also means not having a company like Apple sell an overpriced console at $1000+ or whatever. And this is despite all the "reports" and opinions of home consoles dying.

    Good times.
    Yeah it's so funny how threatened consoles were before
    Releases. Now they are looking stronger than ever. Great news that both consoles are doing very well. the future is definitely bright!




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    Quote Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
    As I said in another thread, while this is possible, I do not believe it. The only possibility of this being feasible is if Major is reporting shipped. I am not trying to hate or wish doom and gloom; I am just being logical and the numbers do not add up. 24-hours in 13 countries the total sold was 1 million, which is reasonable. With black Friday and some stragglers for the first few days, jumping to over 800K sold within that week and last is impossible. That would mean the demand is greater than the mean and I doubt that is the case. That amount sold would cause MS to make statements similar to Sony regarding supply constraints. And guess what, they are not making those claims. This is a play of numbers. I know NPD will release soon and maybe we can get a clearer picture from there but until I see something logical to why they sold this amount, I will not believe it. If I am wrong, I am wrong and I will admit it.
    They both report shipped.
    And the XBO was readily available at black Friday, Ive seen 1.2 million machines sold on black Friday alone in the past so the figures would be easy to do.

    That amount sold would cause MS to make statements similar to Sony regarding supply constraints.
    Why?

    Here are some of the lies you have been told.

    Xbox one has yield issues, yields are troubling.
    Xbox one has not passed FCC yet so wont be made till late.

    Here are the facts:

    Xbox one passed FCC before the PS4 did.
    Yields were just fine according to MS.
    They deliberatly manufactured the system with no operating system so they could get the hardware out early.

    You can extrapolate what you want form that, but the picture that that paints is not one of a system that is having issues in production.
    Last edited by mynd; 12-11-2013 at 23:20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    They both report shipped.
    And the XBO was readily available at black Friday, Ive seen 1.2 million machines sold on black Friday alone in the past so the figures would be easy to do.


    Why?

    Here are some of the lies you have been told.

    Xbox one has yield issues, yields are troubling.
    Xbox one has not passed FCC yet so wont be made till late.

    Here are the facts:

    Xbox one passed FCC before the PS4 did.
    Yields were just fine according to MS.
    They deliberatly manufactured the system with no operating system so they could get the hardware out early.

    You can extrapolate what you want form that, but the picture that that paints is not one of a system that is having issues in production.
    You are speculating on my post. I mentioned nothing regarding the rumors about the Xbone yield or FCC issues. MS squashed those long before the console released. My issue does not come from that information. From last I heard, Sony and Nintendo both report Sold numbers. I believe MS is the only one to report shipped numbers. Because of that, they are presenting information that draws the eye (the consumer as well). Everyone looks at it as positive, which it is for MS but what about reality; meaning the pipeline. They are making people believe that not only have they sold 2 million consoles to consumers they also have the console in stock at every retailer. Its a great strategy, but it is a lie. When NPD releases the numbers for NA, I will either Apologize as I stated or just shake my head in disgrace at MS.

    Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that the industry is thriving with all off the fail BS that has been present as of late. This is good for the industry, I just don't like how they set across their message sometimes. Competition is good but don't make yourself look bad at the same time.
    Last edited by Saigon; 12-12-2013 at 00:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
    You are speculating on my post. I mentioned nothing regarding the rumors about the Xbone yield or FCC issues. MS squashed those long before the console released.
    You are speculating on the fact that they should have shortages, which is baseless. There is no reason MS should have shortages if they can keep manufacturing at a steady pace, combined with their focus on less countries.
    My issue does not come from that information. From last I heard, Sony and Nintendo both report Sold numbers.
    You heard wrong.It always been shipments sent to retailers.

    The one that Sony used to report on was "manufactured" and they were the only ones who ever did this.
    So, they are all sold/shipped to retailers.
    I believe MS is the only one to report shipped numbers. Because of that, they are presenting information that draws the eye (the consumer as well). Everyone looks at it as positive, which it is for MS but what about reality; meaning the pipeline. They are making people believe that not only have they sold 2 million consoles to consumers they also have the console in stock at every retailer. Its a great strategy, but it is a lie. When NPD releases the numbers for NA, I will either Apologize as I stated or just shake my head in disgrace at MS.
    Its also not at all true what you are saying. You plucking this information on speculation and gut feel versus, over 10 years of them reporting the same way.
    Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that the industry is thriving with all off the fail BS that has been present as of late. This is good for the industry, I just don't like how they set across their message sometimes. Competition is good but don't make yourself look bad at the same time.
    They have never ever ever done what you are suggesting they do which is effectively report "manufactured" machines vs sold.

    They have been guilty of what we call channel stuffing, that is getting retailers to buy lots in the hopes it will sell through, and when it doesn't they are usually left with a very weak following quarter in terms of shipments. We wont know if thta is the case for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You are speculating on the fact that they should have shortages, which is baseless. There is no reason MS should have shortages if they can keep manufacturing at a steady pace, combined with their focus on less countries.

    You heard wrong.It always been shipments sent to retailers.

    The one that Sony used to report on was "manufactured" and they were the only ones who ever did this.
    So, they are all sold/shipped to retailers.

    Its also not at all true what you are saying. You plucking this information on speculation and gut feel versus, over 10 years of them reporting the same way.


    They have never ever ever done what you are suggesting they do which is effectively report "manufactured" machines vs sold.

    They have been guilty of what we call channel stuffing, that is getting retailers to buy lots in the hopes it will sell through, and when it doesn't they are usually left with a very weak following quarter in terms of shipments. We wont know if thta is the case for a while.
    Again, you are putting words in my argument. I guess its the best way for you to justify what they did. I am not taking any assumption that this system (Xbone) would fail in any way nor do I want it to fail. Its how the message is presented that I am arguing. I never stated any supply issues nor do I even wish supply issues on either Sony or MS. Its a great strategy MS is using but I do not like it. If the shoe was on the other foot and this was Sony; everyone would cry foul and state how much they lie. But of course, MS is the most honest company in the world especially in the gaming industry and their word is gold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
    Again, you are putting words in my argument. I guess its the best way for you to justify what they did. I am not taking any assumption that this system (Xbone) would fail in any way nor do I want it to fail. Its how the message is presented that I am arguing. I never stated any supply issues nor do I even wish supply issues on either Sony or MS. Its a great strategy MS is using but I do not like it. If the shoe was on the other foot and this was Sony; everyone would cry foul and state how much they lie. But of course, MS is the most honest company in the world especially in the gaming industry and their word is gold.
    Oh god, I give up. Nobody is going to change your mind, I don't think anything MS would say would make you feel they could possibly have actually sold that amount.

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    I lol ' ed at the "oh god, I give up. Nobody is going to change your mind" part.

    Sounds like me and my Xbox friends talking to each other all the time.

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Oh god, I give up. Nobody is going to change your mind, I don't think anything MS would say would make you feel they could possibly have actually sold that amount.
    Actual sales data isn't enough to convince people that don't want to believe it. I mean, if Microsoft published the actual sales numbers per business, etc., it would still get ragged on as PR, lies, etc.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Actual sales data isn't enough to convince people that don't want to believe it. I mean, if Microsoft published the actual sales numbers per business, etc., it would still get ragged on as PR, lies, etc.
    Precisely! MS is never given credit or the benefit of the doubt ....EVER! They are always called liars, greedy, desperate....etc etc. Remember when they were accused of counting replacement consoles as units sold? That would be lying to investors......which is against federal law pertaining to a publicly traded company. Yet.... the haters just kept spouting it out like it was the gospel.

    Now we are arguing for the MILLIONTH time in the last 8 years on shipped vs. sold baloney. Microsoft is still counting shipped to retailers as sold because the retailers bought them. They have never argued that sold meant purchased by customers from the store.......EVER!

    Remember.... Sony is the company in the past that the gaming press was having a hard time trying to get PS3 sales numbers out of them. They never had such problems from MS. And for a good chunk of time Sony was combining sales of all their platforms without giving us a breakdown of sales by individual platform.

    I've said it before and I'll always say it again..... MS=Desperate Sony=Brilliant... for doing the exact same good things.

    NPD will at least give us exact USA numbers. It's likely the PS4 is ahead in total numbers worldwide..... but even then, that won't stop the MS hate train.

    If the numbers are true, this is good. I'd rather it be somewhat close than a landslide for either.
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 12-12-2013 at 08:15.

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    posted by @majornelson: Earlier today we announced Xbox One sold 2m in 18 Days http://mjr.mn/19BNbOG Fun Fact: It took 5 months for Xbox 360 to sell 2m

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    posted by @majornelson: Earlier today we announced Xbox One sold 2m in 18 Days http://mjr.mn/19BNbOG Fun Fact: It took 5 months for Xbox 360 to sell 2m
    That's a huge difference.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Actual sales data isn't enough to convince people that don't want to believe it. I mean, if Microsoft published the actual sales numbers per business, etc., it would still get ragged on as PR, lies, etc.
    If MS did that I would actually believe it. The problem I have with the number MS gave is the amount of reports that the Xbone system is fully in stock at some to most retailers. Their number does not add up to these reports. If they would have given a number of 1.5 ~ 1.8 it would have been more believable based on the reports. I also would have believe the 2-mil number if MS was in the same boat as Sony where demand is higher than the supply, but that is not the case. I am not trying to fud the numbers MS reported through Major, I am just looking at the reality of the situation. As stated in my previous post is was a great strategy for MS to do this. Its a great PR move.

    @mynd tried to progress that I didn't believe these numbers based on the supply constraints issue that were reported and that is false. I do not believe that nor have I stated that MS has supply constraints. My issue is with the basic economical math of supply and demand.

    And from here on I will leave this topic alone because it seems I am wrong because I am challenging the status quo. Overall I still believe that this is good for gaming and though I do not like MS tactics I still wish them a great generation of gaming and I do hope the Xbox brand will be here for the next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
    If MS did that I would actually believe it. The problem I have with the number MS gave is the amount of reports that the Xbone system is fully in stock at some to most retailers. Their number does not add up to these reports. If they would have given a number of 1.5 ~ 1.8 it would have been more believable based on the reports. I also would have believe the 2-mil number if MS was in the same boat as Sony where demand is higher than the supply, but that is not the case. I am not trying to fud the numbers MS reported through Major, I am just looking at the reality of the situation. As stated in my previous post is was a great strategy for MS to do this. Its a great PR move.

    @mynd tried to progress that I didn't believe these numbers based on the supply constraints issue that were reported and that is false. I do not believe that nor have I stated that MS has supply constraints. My issue is with the basic economical math of supply and demand.

    And from here on I will leave this topic alone because it seems I am wrong because I am challenging the status quo. Overall I still believe that this is good for gaming and though I do not like MS tactics I still wish them a great generation of gaming and I do hope the Xbox brand will be here for the next.
    It isn't possible that they are able to keep a steady supply? The basis of demand being higher than supply is a falsehood as far as being a measurable facet. They can produce 3 million units at this point, and have only sold 2 million. It's plausible. It doesn't have to be that there is so much a demand, that in order to sell 2 million units, they can't have any in stock. Doesn't make any real sense at all.

    I'm not sure where you're getting the info for the Xbox One being in stock at some to most retailers. I've yet to find one in stock at the retail level.
    Last edited by F34R; 12-12-2013 at 16:39.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
    If MS did that I would actually believe it. The problem I have with the number MS gave is the amount of reports that the Xbone system is fully in stock at some to most retailers. Their number does not add up to these reports. If they would have given a number of 1.5 ~ 1.8 it would have been more believable based on the reports. I also would have believe the 2-mil number if MS was in the same boat as Sony where demand is higher than the supply, but that is not the case. I am not trying to fud the numbers MS reported through Major, I am just looking at the reality of the situation. As stated in my previous post is was a great strategy for MS to do this. Its a great PR move.

    @mynd tried to progress that I didn't believe these numbers based on the supply constraints issue that were reported and that is false. I do not believe that nor have I stated that MS has supply constraints. My issue is with the basic economical math of supply and demand.

    And from here on I will leave this topic alone because it seems I am wrong because I am challenging the status quo. Overall I still believe that this is good for gaming and though I do not like MS tactics I still wish them a great generation of gaming and I do hope the Xbox brand will be here for the next.
    So let me get this right this:

    Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) today announced that cumulative sell through for the PlayStation®4 (PS4™) computer entertainment system worldwide has surpassed 2.1 million units*1 as of December 1, 2013. The number includes the 700,000 units sold through in Europe and Australasia launching on November 29. The PS4 system became available on November 15 in the United States and Canada and on November 29 in Europe, Australasia and Latin America and is now available in 32 countries globally.
    http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/131203b_e.html

    is not PR.

    But this:

    Since its launch 18 days ago, Xbox One is proving to be the must-have gift this holiday season with more than 2 million consoles sold through to consumers worldwide, averaging over 111,111 units sold per day – a record-setting pace for Xbox. Millions of fans around the world who have purchased Xbox One have shown incredible engagement with the all-in-one games and entertainment system, spending over 83 million hours in games, TV, and apps on Xbox One since the system launched on Nov. 22.
    http://news.xbox.com/2013/12/xbox-on...r-announcement

    is.

    riiiight.

    Both official statements from both companies in their respective news section of their official company websites.

    Really, you seem to have a problem with MS saying anything, you base the fact that this simply cannot be true because they have them on the shelf, and I have repeatedly tell you, between the ability to supply an extra half a million units more to those13 countries than Sony could, and the ability to restock, combined with softer demand is going to result in units on the shelf in some places still.

    Lets get something clear for you.

    Sony and MS cannot and do not take count of stock on shelves, that's retailers issues, not theirs.

    If Sony say they sold 2 million units, they sold it to retailers.
    If MS say they sold 2 million units, they sold it to retailers.

    The problem you seem to have is you think that Sony sold 2 million units to consumers (they likely did), but MS didn't sell 2 million units to consumers because they are on the shelf.

    <facepalm> THERE IS NO WAY SONY OR MS CAN ACCOUNT FOR STOCK ON SHELF'S IN SHOPS THEY ONLY GO ON SALES NUMBER TO RETAILERS

    When MS and Sony say 2 million they mean 2 million sold to Wllmart, and K-mart and Target and all those type of shops.

    Please stop with the PR nonsense thing, its baseless and totally misinformed.

    If you want to argue that Sony has sold more to consumers, because they are sold out everywhere, then yes, you a probably correct, we cant ever tell for sure though, and you will never get officially figures for that because no one can account for that.
    Last edited by mynd; 12-12-2013 at 21:40.

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    I know I said I wasn't going to continue this debate but I had to say one last thing. I just came from a holiday party for my company where proceeds benefitted a children hospital in my area. So I went to Target to get a few toys for the children, just doing my part. I just happened to glance at the electronics section and I saw a steel cage with about 10-15 Xbones sitting in there. This discussion was the first thing that popped in my head as soon as I saw the systems. Because of what I saw, I decided to ask the person in the area about the PS4 availability and they stated they had none and wasn't certain when they would be in. It could have been the person I talked to because they also asked me to call in the morning to ask when the next shipment would come in for the store. I am not trying to prove a point because I did not ask when the Xbones sitting in the cage arrived. I didn't check to see if they were day one editions or standard systems. I just wanted to point out what I found out just going to Target.

    @mynd, I never said Sony's information released wasn't PR. I am not trying to be an a-hole but I never said it was or wasn't. Unless I am mistaken about my previous post, I never said that. And As I stated and continue to state MS released information was a great PR move. And Again, I will say if NPD numbers are significantly high, I will apologize for my mistake and if not I will shake my finger at MS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
    I know I said I wasn't going to continue this debate but I had to say one last thing. I just came from a holiday party for my company where proceeds benefitted a children hospital in my area. So I went to Target to get a few toys for the children, just doing my part. I just happened to glance at the electronics section and I saw a steel cage with about 10-15 Xbones sitting in there. This discussion was the first thing that popped in my head as soon as I saw the systems. Because of what I saw, I decided to ask the person in the area about the PS4 availability and they stated they had none and wasn't certain when they would be in. It could have been the person I talked to because they also asked me to call in the morning to ask when the next shipment would come in for the store. I am not trying to prove a point because I did not ask when the Xbones sitting in the cage arrived. I didn't check to see if they were day one editions or standard systems. I just wanted to point out what I found out just going to Target.

    @mynd, I never said Sony's information released wasn't PR. I am not trying to be an a-hole but I never said it was or wasn't. Unless I am mistaken about my previous post, I never said that. And As I stated and continue to state MS released information was a great PR move. And Again, I will say if NPD numbers are significantly high, I will apologize for my mistake and if not I will shake my finger at MS.
    Tell that Target to ship some my way please. Can't get the system in the south east..




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    Larry HrybVerified account ‏@majornelson

    November NPD’s: #XboxOne was the fastest selling console in NA last month - averaging 101k units sold per day

    909,132

    https://twitter.com/majornelson/stat...70948663201792
    Last edited by Two4DaMoney; 12-13-2013 at 00:46.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Saigon View Post
    I know I said I wasn't going to continue this debate but I had to say one last thing. I just came from a holiday party for my company where proceeds benefitted a children hospital in my area. So I went to Target to get a few toys for the children, just doing my part. I just happened to glance at the electronics section and I saw a steel cage with about 10-15 Xbones sitting in there. This discussion was the first thing that popped in my head as soon as I saw the systems. Because of what I saw, I decided to ask the person in the area about the PS4 availability and they stated they had none and wasn't certain when they would be in. It could have been the person I talked to because they also asked me to call in the morning to ask when the next shipment would come in for the store. I am not trying to prove a point because I did not ask when the Xbones sitting in the cage arrived. I didn't check to see if they were day one editions or standard systems. I just wanted to point out what I found out just going to Target.

    @mynd, I never said Sony's information released wasn't PR. I am not trying to be an a-hole but I never said it was or wasn't. Unless I am mistaken about my previous post, I never said that. And As I stated and continue to state MS released information was a great PR move. And Again, I will say if NPD numbers are significantly high, I will apologize for my mistake and if not I will shake my finger at MS.
    Dude.... show me an instance during the Xbox and 360 eras where MS lied about their sales numbers. You are questioning MS's claims without a track record of them doing so in the past. MS has always been forth coming with sales numbers.....even when it was the embarrassing numbers from Japan.

    Sony on the other hand, rarely discussed it. We had to get PS3 sales numbers in America from NPD. Japan's from Famitsu I believe..... and nothing for Europe. Yet you don't question Sony's PS4 sales numbers.

    That's why you look rather silly questioning the company that has been the most candid of the 3 console makers on sales..... basing your doubt on the Xbox One being available on shelves and in a cage.
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 12-13-2013 at 10:39.

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    over 101K sold a day on average, which makes it the fastest selling console in the US. Microsoft noted that it sold roughly three times what the Xbox 360 did at launch and owners picked up an average of 2.1 games per console.
    http:// http://www.eurogamer.net/art...e-in-us-retail

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    It is a shame so many media outlets are running with that PR line from MS. The average daily is a meaningless stat in this case. The longer a product has been on the market the lower the average daily sales will be.

    Which of these two sold faster?
    Product A: (10+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2)/16 = 2.5 Average sold per day
    Product B: (8+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2)/9 = 2.67 Average sold per day

    Product A managed to ship and sale more units on day 1 and has managed to ship and sale just as many units post launch as Product B. However, because Product B launched later resulting in fewer days to average the daily average sold is higher.

    Or a more direct example:

    PS4
    Day 1 - 900,000
    Day 2 to 16 - 200,000 (average 13,334 per day over 15 days)
    Total - 1,100,000 (average 68,750 per day over 16 days)

    Xbox One
    Day 1 - 809,000
    Day 2 to 9 -100,000 (average 12,500 per day over 8 days)
    Total - 909,000 (average 101k per day over 9 days)

    Microsoft could had sold less than 809k on day 1; which would result in a higher unit sold per day beyond the first day but this is another reason why using the average daily sales is meaningless. 909k is not a poor figure by any means, so I don't understand why they just didn't go with what the system sold.
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    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    In a way, comparing the sales to their previous console is relevant because it somewhat gives you an idea of how the industry is doing. but they should also compare it to the PS4 as they weren't shy to compare the 360 sales to the other two consoles, it should be kept consistent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    In a way, comparing the sales to their previous console is relevant because it somewhat gives you an idea of how the industry is doing. but they should also compare it to the PS4 as they weren't shy to compare the 360 sales to the other two consoles, it should be kept consistent.
    Oh definitely. Comparing Xbox One sales to the Xbox, and the 360, completely ok. Dragging both of these threads, the One and PS4, into number fighting, is just not needed. Not already. Barely a month into the new generation and it's already as bad as the past seven years of the previous generation.




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