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  1. #26
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    There is a contract when you first turn your iphone on, is there not? I assume it has something similar as the PS3 EULA about modifying the os, etc. It's pretty much the same thing as far as whether it should be legal or not to jailbreak the OS.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    There is a contract when you first turn your iphone on, is there not? I assume it has something similar as the PS3 EULA about modifying the os, etc. It's pretty much the same thing as far as whether it should be legal or not to jailbreak the OS.
    No it isn't. Because the main advertised purpose of a phone.... is to use it like a phone. There is nothing in the TOS/EULA that locks it to a service iirc.

    If Sony removed the option to play games on the PS3, then it would be similar. But they removed the otherOS function, which is just as off as the orange ticker. Even fans of F@H have a stronger case then those lamenting the los of otherOS.

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    who doesn't want free games? I'm sorry but your a hypocrite if your telling me that you got your ps3 jail-broken and that your not going to use it for free games. its bull crap, there's going to be this one game that your not willing to spend 60$ on and your going to download it, I don't care who your are. there's no other reason to jailbreak your ps3.those other reasons are just an excuse to make the jailbreak look not so bad in the eyes of people like sony and such. if u jailbreak your sony and your still buying games, then your a dumb-***. unless u want the online experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    No it isn't. Because the main advertised purpose of a phone.... is to use it like a phone. There is nothing in the TOS/EULA that locks it to a service iirc.

    If Sony removed the option to play games on the PS3, then it would be similar. But they removed the otherOS function, which is just as off as the orange ticker. Even fans of F@H have a stronger case then those lamenting the los of otherOS.
    What does it being a phone have to do with it? You jailbreak the iphone to use apps that the system wouldn't normally let you install and run. You do the same thing with the PS3.
    Quote Originally Posted by ryukenchi View Post
    who doesn't want free games? I'm sorry but your a hypocrite if your telling me that you got your ps3 jail-broken and that your not going to use it for free games. its bull crap, there's going to be this one game that your not willing to spend 60$ on and your going to download it, I don't care who your are. there's no other reason to jailbreak your ps3.those other reasons are just an excuse to make the jailbreak look not so bad in the eyes of people like sony and such. if u jailbreak your sony and your still buying games, then your a dumb-***. unless u want the online experience.
    Please stop posting such non-sense. There are plenty of reasons to jailbreak the PS3 that don't have to do with downloading PS3 games.




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    name em

    ps. this is for my own expansion of knowledge not start a war fyi

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    What does it being a phone have to do with it? You jailbreak the iphone to use apps that the system wouldn't normally let you install and run. You do the same thing with the PS3.
    Jailbreaking iphones removes restrictions. It is not the same as Jailbreaking a PS3 which inserts proprietary Code to induce a serviceable version of the PS3 OS to run unsigned Apps. The SOLE purpose of the PS3 jailbreak is to subvert the OS instead of unlocking a software based restriction.

    Even under the DMCA 2010 these two products would be viewed in a different light. There is no parity between the two products other than running unapproved apps. The difference is that running unapproved apps on the iphone is a byproduct of what is acceptable while for the PS3, that is the devices main purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryukenchi View Post
    name em

    ps. this is for my own expansion of knowledge not start a war fyi
    If you wanna learn more about it, you'll have to do it elsewhere, per our rules here. I can't name them. Sorry. Google would be a great start for ya.
    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    Jailbreaking iphones removes restrictions. It is not the same as Jailbreaking a PS3 which inserts proprietary Code to induce a serviceable version of the PS3 OS to run unsigned Apps. The SOLE purpose of the PS3 jailbreak is to subvert the OS instead of unlocking a software based restriction.

    Even under the DMCA 2010 these two products would be viewed in a different light. There is no parity between the two products other than running unapproved apps. The difference is that running unapproved apps on the iphone is a byproduct of what is acceptable while for the PS3, that is the devices main purpose.
    The only thing that is subverted is the security of the OS, which in turn allows the PS3 to run in a mode that is built into the system already.




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    i did but i cant find any they only give u the standard description of what it does which is like 3 things. thats also the reeason why im saing that the only reason to do it now is for free games those other things are just nice addons to throw off the attention off the free games thing. imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryukenchi View Post
    i did but i cant find any they only give u the standard description of what it does which is like 3 things. thats also the reeason why im saing that the only reason to do it now is for free games those other things are just nice addons to throw off the attention off the free games thing. imo
    I pmd u.

    Sent from wherever I am via Tapatalk.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    The only thing that is subverted is the security of the OS, which in turn allows the PS3 to run in a mode that is built into the system already.
    Yes. Subverting the security of the OS is subverting the OS. But that isn't exactly the point that is under contention. It is the "purpose". Since you cannot install linux just by using the jailbreak alone it makes no sense that a court would allow the sales under the assumption that it reinstates linux..... because it doesn't.

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    I very much doubt that they would have ruled in Sony's favor even if OtherOS wasn't removed. Spain has pretty much shown that they support piracy without outright saying. They always use the excuse that it adds "functionality" to justify it.

    They did the same thing to Nintendo.
    Last edited by Ryunosuke; 12-17-2010 at 22:54.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    I very much doubt that they would have ruled in Sony's favor even if OtherOS wasn't removed. Spain has pretty much shown that they support piracy without outright saying. They always use the excuse that it adds "functionality" to justify it.

    They did the same thing to Nintendo.
    You seem to be stuck in piracy land, and don't really concern yourself with consumer rights. If all you can come up with is "it's all about piracy", then you're intentionally only seeing that side and refuse to even entertain the notion of anything other than that idea. Try and open up to the possibility that Spain isn't run by a bunch of corporations that make lobby for their own purpose and to limit what a consumer can and can't do with a product after they've purchased it. See, over here in America, companies decide the laws here. It's sad, but true.

    You go on though, continue claiming everyone that is for hacking their console, or jailbreaking it, is all about piracy, even the judges.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    You seem to be stuck in piracy land, and don't really concern yourself with consumer rights. If all you can come up with is "it's all about piracy", then you're intentionally only seeing that side and refuse to even entertain the notion of anything other than that idea. Try and open up to the possibility that Spain isn't run by a bunch of corporations that make lobby for their own purpose and to limit what a consumer can and can't do with a product after they've purchased it. See, over here in America, companies decide the laws here. It's sad, but true.

    You go on though, continue claiming everyone that is for hacking their console, or jailbreaking it, is all about piracy, even the judges.
    You don't believe Spain supports piracy? How about the fact that they dismissed a case against an individual that downloaded 3322 copyrighted movies as well as an untold amount of copyrighted songs?

    The reason the court dismissed the case? Because he wasn't profiting from it. There was more than enough evidence to show that he downloaded these movies and songs, the court judge even admitted as much.

    Spain tops the list of recorded piracy by more than 5 million cases over other countries. This would not be the case if their laws did not heavily support piracy.

    We will see how Spain's government and its people feel when these companies stop offering their products and services there.

    We don't live in some fairy land where everyone, or even most, have good intentions with they use a product like PsJailbreak. The majority that use PsJailbreak will use it for piracy and other illegal means, this has been the case every single time something like this was released.

  14. #39
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    Yeah, their laws aren't run by corporations... period. That was my point. Our laws on this are the way they are because of greedy politicians being lined by the lobbyists of these corps. I never said that people don't pirate, etc., but I do KNOW that there are people that don't pirate just because they can.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Yeah, their laws aren't run by corporations... period. That was my point. Our laws on this are the way they are because of greedy politicians being lined by the lobbyists of these corps. I never said that people don't pirate, etc., but I do KNOW that there are people that don't pirate just because they can.
    So you are a greedy corporation for trying to protect your product, investment, etc.? They are not running a charity.

    I am sure you would feel different if you had millions or even billions invested in a product/service. then a bunch of people decided they would pirate your product/service and you could do crap about it because the countries laws support those that are stealing your product/service.

    The majority of those that buy a product like PsJailbreak use it for piracy or use it for some other illegal means. Those that made the product knew that and those that support the product know that. You won't hear most of them admit so because they don't want lost the product.

    Edit: We are not talking about just a small difference between Spain and other countries. We are talking about over double the amount of piracy in the United States.

    Recorded infringements per country


    I know this is from 2008, but I doubt it has went down any. If anything it has probably went up.

    Population:
    Spain ~46m
    Italy ~60m
    France ~65m
    USA ~310m
    UK ~61m
    Brazil ~190m
    Germany ~81m
    Poland ~38m
    Israel ~7.6m
    Canada ~34m

    Not only does Spain have the highest amount of recorded copyright infringement, but with the exception of Israel has the highest amount of recorded copyright infringement per individual.

    Just like with the amount of recorded copyright infringements, it is not just a small difference between Spain and other countries(except for Israel) for the amount of recorded copyright infringement per individual.
    Last edited by Ryunosuke; 12-18-2010 at 00:52.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    So you are a greedy corporation for trying to protect your product, investment, etc.? They are not running a charity.

    I am sure you would feel different if you had millions or even billions invested in a product/service. then a bunch of people decided they would pirate your product/service and you could do crap about it because the countries laws support those that are stealing your product/service.

    The majority of those that buy a product like PsJailbreak use it for piracy or use it for some other illegal means. Those that made the product knew that and those that support the product know that. You won't hear most of them admit so because they don't want lost the product.
    I said the politicians are greedy and take money from corporations and pass laws that favor them, and screw all to the consumers. Telephone industry, entertainment industry, etc. The list goes on and on.

    As far as what the purpose of the jailbreak is.. that's your assessment, and you can believe that if you wish. It just happens to be a downside to allowing consumers the ability to use their products as they wish, and not be restricted to what Sony says should be run on it.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I said the politicians are greedy and take money from corporations and pass laws that favor them, and screw all to the consumers. Telephone industry, entertainment industry, etc. The list goes on and on.
    It could be said that that is just your assessment.

    There are laws that protect the consumer just as there as laws that protect corporations.

    Besides there is nothing unfair about the laws we are talking about here and we are talking about the PS3, movies, music, etc. here. You are forced to buy a PS3, movie, music or any other product we are talking about here. If you don't like the way a company is doing things then don't buy product.

    That doesn't mean a company shouldn't have every right to protect their product and ban products like PsJailbreak that were never advertised or intended for the system by the manufacturer.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    As far as what the purpose of the jailbreak is.. that's your assessment, and you can believe that if you wish. It just happens to be a downside to allowing consumers the ability to use their products as they wish, and not be restricted to what Sony says should be run on it.
    Just my assessment? The history of products, numbers, etc. says otherwise.

    Why shouldn't you be restricted? You are the one that invested billions into the product and service. If you don't like don't buy it. Buy a PC if you want homebrew, etc.. Can't afford a PC? That's tough, that is no excuse. It is nowhere near as hard as some like to make it seem to save up the money for a PC.

    I think it's a silly argument that piracy should be allowed so you can use the product outside of what it was advertised to do.
    Last edited by Ryunosuke; 12-18-2010 at 00:52.

  18. #43
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    I never said it SHOULD be allowed. Again, you are really stuck on piracy here. This isn't about piracy and a persons right to pirate stuff. It's about consumers being allowed to do with a product after a purchase. Unfortunately, there is always a down side to these things.

    That isn't my assessment, that is absolute FACT. Corporations pay millions and millions each year to lobby for laws that put consumers at a disadvantage in a sell, and their rights. This isn't how I feel.. this is a fact.

    I agree that it'd be a silly argument to say that piracy should be allowed under any circumstance; which I've not said. I don't think Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Verizon, Apple, etc., has any right to tell me what I can and can't do with my PS3, 360, Wii/DS, ipod.

    Look at the PSP. Coders have done so much with the system. They've given the PSP so much functionality beyond what Sony intended, which started with exploits, and carried over to custom firmware. Again, unfortunately, the piracy issue once again reared it's head. Downisde? Absolutely.
    Last edited by F34R; 12-18-2010 at 01:05.




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    Actually this has everything to do with piracy. You are wanting to ignore that aspect of the product because there is no way to defend it.

    You are defending a products that allow users to pirate with the same excuses those that pirate uses. If there is such a downside such as piracy to the product then the product shouldn't be sold. If you are defending said product then you are defending piracy.

    If there wasn't such a downside to the product such as piracy companies like Sony wouldn't care as much if they were sold. Such as with other unlicensed devices.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    That isn't my assessment, that is absolute FACT. Corporations pay millions and millions each year to lobby for laws that put consumers at a disadvantage in a sell, and their rights. This isn't how I feel.. this is a fact.
    It is no less of an assessment then stating that the majority of those that buy a product like PsJailbreak use it for piracy and other illegal means.

    Some or even most of these laws that you state that puts "consumers at a disadvantage" is nothing but you opinion/assessment.

    Regardless of all the lobbying, laws are not always made in favor of corpations and often times are not. More times than not the law with often side with the individual over the corporation. You have to look no further than how ofter corpations are sued over some of the dumbest things to see this.


    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Look at the PSP. Coders have done so much with the system. They've given the PSP so much functionality beyond what Sony intended, which started with exploits, and carried over to custom firmware. Again, unfortunately, the piracy issue once again reared it's head. Downisde? Absolutely.
    And look where the PSP and games on the PSP is today due to piracy.

    Want to continue seeing products like the PSP? Want to continue seeing publishers/developers supporting devices like the PSP? Then something has to been done about the piracy.

    That something happens to include doing something with devices that enables consumers to easily pirate games.
    Last edited by Ryunosuke; 12-18-2010 at 01:38.

  20. #45
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    Sure, but not at the expense of our rights as consumers. I'm not ignoring it, as I KEEP SAYING that it is an ugly downside to a lot of things. Get rid of products that facilitate piracy? Sure... let's get rid of DVR's, computers, blank cd's and dvd's, etc., etc. Might as well get rid of the internet too.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Sure, but not at the expense of our rights as consumers. I'm not ignoring it, as I KEEP SAYING that it is an ugly downside to a lot of things. Get rid of products that facilitate piracy? Sure... let's get rid of DVR's, computers, blank cd's and dvd's, etc., etc. Might as well get rid of the internet too.
    What right are you losing? It is not your right to modify the product anyway that you want and it shouldn't be.

    The "ugly downside" heavily outweighs any advantage the device gives. Not just to the corporation, but to the consumer as well.

    You are just grasping at straws by comparing the products you listed to a device like PsJailbreak. That's like trying to compare a regular USB flash drive to PsJailbreak. The USB flash drive is not the means the consumer is using to pirate. It is the software and perhaps hardware modification to the flash drive that allows consumers to pirate(which is the same with the other devices you listed).

    You cannot just buy a blank CD/DVD, computer, USB flash drive etc. and expect to be able to pirate games, movies, etc.. That cannot be said about PSJailbreak, it's even advertises as much on their website

    Backup games to your internal hard drive or external hard drive through USB, and boot directly off GUI. Eliminating the need for expensive blueray burners and costly blank media.

    Play backups off your hard drives 2x as fast as off the blueray drive. This eliminates lags and glitches to provide you with smoother game play.
    Doesn't sound like piracy just happens to be some downside or side effect of the device. To me it sounds like one of the intended purposes of the device.

    If it wasn't for piracy there wouldn't be near as big of a demand for these devices. If there was not such a demand of these devices they wouldn't be made/offered near as much.

    What I am trying to say is that it is obvious what these devices are intended for by the person that made it, the person that is selling it and the majority that buy it(which is piracy).
    Last edited by Ryunosuke; 12-18-2010 at 03:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    What right are you losing? It is not your right to modify the product anyway that you want and it shouldn't be.

    The "ugly downside" heavily outweighs any advantage the device gives. Not just to the corporation, but to the consumer as well.

    You are just grasping at straws by comparing the products you listed to a device like PsJailbreak. That's like trying to compare a regular USB flash drive to PsJailbreak. The USB flash drive is not the means the consumer is using to pirate. It is the software and perhaps hardware modification to the flash drive that allows consumers to pirate(which is the same with the other devices you listed).

    You cannot just buy a blank CD/DVD, computer, USB flash drive etc. and expect to be able to pirate games, movies, etc.. That cannot be said about PSJailbreak, it's even advertises as much on their website



    Doesn't sound like piracy just happens to be some downside or side effect of the device. To me it sounds like one of the intended purposes of the device.

    If it wasn't for piracy there wouldn't be near as big of a demand for these devices. If there was not such a demand of these devices they wouldn't be made/offered near as much.

    What I am trying to say is that it is obvious what these devices are intended for by the person that made it, the person that is selling it and the majority that buy it(which is piracy).
    Thank you. I was trying to explain this difference above as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I never said it SHOULD be allowed. Again, you are really stuck on piracy here. This isn't about piracy and a persons right to pirate stuff. It's about consumers being allowed to do with a product after a purchase. Unfortunately, there is always a down side to these things.

    That isn't my assessment, that is absolute FACT. Corporations pay millions and millions each year to lobby for laws that put consumers at a disadvantage in a sell, and their rights. This isn't how I feel.. this is a fact.

    I agree that it'd be a silly argument to say that piracy should be allowed under any circumstance; which I've not said. I don't think Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Verizon, Apple, etc., has any right to tell me what I can and can't do with my PS3, 360, Wii/DS, ipod.

    Look at the PSP. Coders have done so much with the system. They've given the PSP so much functionality beyond what Sony intended, which started with exploits, and carried over to custom firmware. Again, unfortunately, the piracy issue once again reared it's head. Downisde? Absolutely.
    So these companies spend millions to design the device for an intended purpose and you think it is OK, for you to do anything without them saying something? It doesn't work like that. Someone somewhere has to be held responsible. These EULA's and TOS's protect these companies from things consumers can do. Does it restrict your right? No. You can do whatever you want. But by breaking these agreements you absolve these companies from certain actions. It is all about cause and effect.

    1. You open your device for what ever reason, you break agreements, so company in question doesn't have to pay for your actions. Especially if you get hurt, and even more so if you damage the product and try to get compensation.

    2. In terms of proprietary software, IP and even trade secrets, these companies must put up an active fight to show that they did all that was in their power to cut a leak. It protects them legally. Because of that the mere existence of a device that subverts the security (and with an active community no doubt) means that other customers now have to deal with the patches and fixes. Personal hobbies step on the toes of all who have invested. It is even more annoying when these hobbies include things you can do with an off the shelf desktop. Makes the whole process pointless.

    3. How these devices should be used is determined by the person/company who created it. Anything beyond that, should not be looked upon as a positive thing if it inconveniences ALL just to entertain the few. If you decide to break the original OS then quit trying to restore features that are lost. If taking a hardware down a path that includes unique software is all you want to do, then a person should accept all that goes with it. The warranty may be voided, TOS and EULA are broken. And enhancements included in the original OS from then on should be forfeited. If not, then it is piracy. That would be the only reason.

    4. It is NEVER the consumers "right" to subvert the security of proprietary IP. What is consumers right is to purchase a device that fits their needs, not purchase a device that doesn't fit their needs, then try to subvert it, so it does. Even if consumers decide to subvert it, the should expect and accept the consequences of thier actions. A consumers rights never is to trample over the will of the product/content creators. There is no such entitlement.

  23. #48
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    With Spain's track record, it is only a matter of time before all forms of software entertainment(Movies, Games, etc) just stop localizing their products for Spain, when you have a nearly 50% piracy rate, you know that things are bad... would not surprise me to see all three game companies to stop selling their consoles and and games to Spain...

    also, how does protecting your IP= greedy politicians? you bring up the PSP, but that is not a good example(for what you want anyway)... CFW RUINED the PSP, games sold to a 20 million install base(like GTA stories), before CFW got big sold MUCH better than games sold to a 60 million install base after(chinatown wars)... now the PSP is dead everywhere except for Japan

    fact is that Spain with their very pro-piracy attitude, is only going to hurt themselves in the long run because these companies will not want to waste their time with it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    What right are you losing? It is not your right to modify the product anyway that you want and it shouldn't be.

    The "ugly downside" heavily outweighs any advantage the device gives. Not just to the corporation, but to the consumer as well.

    You are just grasping at straws by comparing the products you listed to a device like PsJailbreak. That's like trying to compare a regular USB flash drive to PsJailbreak. The USB flash drive is not the means the consumer is using to pirate. It is the software and perhaps hardware modification to the flash drive that allows consumers to pirate(which is the same with the other devices you listed).

    You cannot just buy a blank CD/DVD, computer, USB flash drive etc. and expect to be able to pirate games, movies, etc.. That cannot be said about PSJailbreak, it's even advertises as much on their website



    Doesn't sound like piracy just happens to be some downside or side effect of the device. To me it sounds like one of the intended purposes of the device.

    If it wasn't for piracy there wouldn't be near as big of a demand for these devices. If there was not such a demand of these devices they wouldn't be made/offered near as much.

    What I am trying to say is that it is obvious what these devices are intended for by the person that made it, the person that is selling it and the majority that buy it(which is piracy).
    First, I do have the right to do with the PS3 as I please... it's mine after all, I bought it. If I want to bash it with a hammer, I can. If I want to hack into it, I can.

    No it's not grasping at straws... maybe learn a little about how these devices work, which we can't post here so that's probably why you're in the dark here. Of course it's the intended purpose for some. Jesus, I've already said that numerous times.

    Let's see... I can't just buy a jailbreak device, and expect to automatically play pirated games. So, you're wrong on that front as well. Again, go learn a little something about it and then come back to play ball.

    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    Thank you. I was trying to explain this difference above as well.



    So these companies spend millions to design the device for an intended purpose and you think it is OK, for you to do anything without them saying something? It doesn't work like that. Someone somewhere has to be held responsible. These EULA's and TOS's protect these companies from things consumers can do. Does it restrict your right? No. You can do whatever you want. But by breaking these agreements you absolve these companies from certain actions. It is all about cause and effect.

    1. You open your device for what ever reason, you break agreements, so company in question doesn't have to pay for your actions. Especially if you get hurt, and even more so if you damage the product and try to get compensation.

    2. In terms of proprietary software, IP and even trade secrets, these companies must put up an active fight to show that they did all that was in their power to cut a leak. It protects them legally. Because of that the mere existence of a device that subverts the security (and with an active community no doubt) means that other customers now have to deal with the patches and fixes. Personal hobbies step on the toes of all who have invested. It is even more annoying when these hobbies include things you can do with an off the shelf desktop. Makes the whole process pointless.

    3. How these devices should be used is determined by the person/company who created it. Anything beyond that, should not be looked upon as a positive thing if it inconveniences ALL just to entertain the few. If you decide to break the original OS then quit trying to restore features that are lost. If taking a hardware down a path that includes unique software is all you want to do, then a person should accept all that goes with it. The warranty may be voided, TOS and EULA are broken. And enhancements included in the original OS from then on should be forfeited. If not, then it is piracy. That would be the only reason.

    4. It is NEVER the consumers "right" to subvert the security of proprietary IP. What is consumers right is to purchase a device that fits their needs, not purchase a device that doesn't fit their needs, then try to subvert it, so it does. Even if consumers decide to subvert it, the should expect and accept the consequences of thier actions. A consumers rights never is to trample over the will of the product/content creators. There is no such entitlement.
    Quote Originally Posted by jfkgoblue View Post
    With Spain's track record, it is only a matter of time before all forms of software entertainment(Movies, Games, etc) just stop localizing their products for Spain, when you have a nearly 50% piracy rate, you know that things are bad... would not surprise me to see all three game companies to stop selling their consoles and and games to Spain...

    also, how does protecting your IP= greedy politicians? you bring up the PSP, but that is not a good example(for what you want anyway)... CFW RUINED the PSP, games sold to a 20 million install base(like GTA stories), before CFW got big sold MUCH better than games sold to a 60 million install base after(chinatown wars)... now the PSP is dead everywhere except for Japan

    fact is that Spain with their very pro-piracy attitude, is only going to hurt themselves in the long run because these companies will not want to waste their time with it
    The TOS, etc., don't protect from what consumers can do, it limits them, and that is WRONG.
    1. If I hack the device, I wouldn't expect Sony to provide any support... never said they should, and agree that they shouldn't.

    2. I determine how I use things I buy. End of story. That's how it should be. S

    3. Dude, what the heck? Sony will never determine what I do with my PS3.. .EVER. If you are happy with what Sony tells you to do, then go for it. I for one, will happily use my PS3 in any manner I see fit.

    4. Obviously it is. I purchase a product, and if I can expand it's functionality to fit my needs, I will. Sony doesn't have any right to tell me what I can install and run on the PS3. I wish the US would learn a lesson from Spain, and write laws that actually make sense instead of taking money from corporations and writing laws to suit their needs and leave the consumers with their mouths hanging open.




  25. #50
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    Attitudes towards individual liberties have completely nosedived over the past 5 years or so, it's very sad.

    Good move, Spain.

    Oh and since we're so keen on making definitive broad-brush statements about entire demographics with no evidence whatsoever: 100% of the people who buy jailbreak devices for piracy would never have purchased any games whatsoever anyway. They're pirates, the only reason to be a pirate is if you never ever intend to buy a game again.

    Wow debating is so much easier when you just make completely unrealistic, sweeping generalisations and do **** all to back them up

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