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  1. #51
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    Piracy certainly isn't the downfall for the PSP.. that's a null point to try and make. NDS, 360, both easily pirated, yet are doing very well. Excuses, that's all it is. I should be able to, and will continue to, do whatever I want with my items.




  2. #52
    gameplaya96
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    If you wanna learn more about it, you'll have to do it elsewhere, per our rules here. I can't name them. Sorry.
    I doubt that's true, but if it is then that forum rule needs to change. It's one thing to not be allowed to help someone mod their system but it's completely another to not be allowed to explain why someone might want to. For as long as we're not allowed to discuss the legitimate uses for such a device, these threads will always be dragged off topic by those who insist on boring everyone rigid with accusations of piracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    From that it seems to me that Spain's trying harder than everyone else to actually catch pirates. Show us that's not true.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kydosan View Post
    Attitudes towards individual liberties have completely nosedived over the past 5 years or so, it's very sad.

    Good move, Spain.

    Oh and since we're so keen on making definitive broad-brush statements about entire demographics with no evidence whatsoever: 100% of the people who buy jailbreak devices for piracy would never have purchased any games whatsoever anyway. They're pirates, the only reason to be a pirate is if you never ever intend to buy a game again.

    Wow debating is so much easier when you just make completely unrealistic, sweeping generalisations and do **** all to back them up
    I'll remember this for next time, thank you so much!!! you've changed how I now see these discussions!
    if I am in the PS3 or 360 section I will NOT post about the competitor just to please people, if you want to know what I think about the competitor link me to a thread in the appropriate section

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by gameplaya96 View Post
    I doubt that's true, but if it is then that forum rule needs to change. It's one thing to not be allowed to help someone mod their system but it's completely another to not be allowed to explain why someone might want to. For as long as we're not allowed to discuss the legitimate uses for such a device, these threads will always be dragged off topic by those who insist on boring everyone rigid with accusations of piracy.


    From that it seems to me that Spain's trying harder than everyone else to actually catch pirates. Show us that's not true.
    Wouldnt that, you know, be encouraging piracy and that.. which is almost the same thing as linking someone to it?

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  5. #55
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    It's one thing to encourage or promote piracy, it's another thing all together when your laws aren't dictated by corporations and how much money they are willing to spend on legislation.




  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by gameplaya96 View Post
    I doubt that's true, but if it is then that forum rule needs to change. It's one thing to not be allowed to help someone mod their system but it's completely another to not be allowed to explain why someone might want to. For as long as we're not allowed to discuss the legitimate uses for such a device, these threads will always be dragged off topic by those who insist on boring everyone rigid with accusations of piracy.


    From that it seems to me that Spain's trying harder than everyone else to actually catch pirates. Show us that's not true.
    TBH i think even the mention of psjailbreak deserves a ban on this forum, if it was upto me threads would be closed on the spot and be told to discuss it else where, sure it has the ablity to maybe in the future allow homebrew, but the chance of it being more then just a piracy aid is very low i think. Hell i think sony should ban the mac address of the ps3 using the jailbreak and then also blacklist them from buying another ps3. But thats just me.



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  7. #57
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    first, glad it's not up to you. Second, blacklist them from buying another PS3? That has to be one of the most hilarious things I've read here in a while.




  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    first, glad it's not up to you. Second, blacklist them from buying another PS3? That has to be one of the most hilarious things I've read here in a while.
    It would stop them from thinking about using it though, it could never happen, but it'd be an intresting way to stop people from modifying something they do not even own.



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  9. #59
    gameplaya96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    Wouldnt that, you know, be encouraging piracy and that.. which is almost the same thing as linking someone to it?
    You make the case perfectly, being that you think modding = piracy. Being allowed to explain why it isn't would go a long way to keeping these topics on track and civil.

  10. #60
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    That's true, if you read the TOS on a lot of electronics you buy, you never technically OWN it. Your just purchasing the use of it. But imo. Fear is prolly one of those people who think stealing is a good thing,

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaredT View Post
    That's true, if you read the TOS on a lot of electronics you buy, you never technically OWN it. Your just purchasing the use of it. But imo. Fear is prolly one of those people who think stealing is a good thing,
    Yeah, you bought the license to use it, but the company still own it.



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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaredT View Post
    That's true, if you read the TOS on a lot of electronics you buy, you never technically OWN it. Your just purchasing the use of it. But imo. Fear is prolly one of those people who think stealing is a good thing,
    Where did I ever say that, or even imply stealing is a good thing? Dude, get a clue. You guys are so stuck on piracy, you can't see anything other than that word when it comes to modifying things you own. Such a shame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    Yeah, you bought the license to use it, but the company still own it.
    Negative. I OWN the PS3. They own their intellectual property. Which would be the name, trademarked, etc. The hardware and software is mine to do with as I wish.




  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Where did I ever say that, or even imply stealing is a good thing? Dude, get a clue. You guys are so stuck on piracy, you can't see anything other than that word when it comes to modifying things you own. Such a shame.

    Negative. I OWN the PS3. They own their intellectual property. Which would be the name, trademarked, etc. The hardware and software is mine to do with as I wish.
    No you do not, you own the license to use it, you do not own the hardware or software.



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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    No you do not, you own the license to use it, you do not own the hardware or software.
    Yes, I do own the hardware... I'll give you the software bit to an extent, but there are certain provisions I am afforded. While I can't reverse the software myself, etc., I can utilize other software that is written, such as a custom firmware.




  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Yes, I do own the hardware... I'll give you the software bit to an extent, but there are certain provisions I am afforded. While I can't reverse the software myself, etc., I can utilize other software that is written, such as a custom firmware.
    Guess you can't really get the people who use custom firmware, downgrading it maybe because that is modifying the software, but custom firmware does not, so i see nothing to stop this legally.
    But then i'm not gonna go into this again, there is always a flame war, someone gets told off, then thread is locked so let's end it here rather then getting a perfectly goodish thread locked. So i'l give in and say you win for this F34R.



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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    First, I do have the right to do with the PS3 as I please... it's mine after all, I bought it. If I want to bash it with a hammer, I can. If I want to hack into it, I can.

    No it's not grasping at straws... maybe learn a little about how these devices work, which we can't post here so that's probably why you're in the dark here. Of course it's the intended purpose for some. Jesus, I've already said that numerous times.

    Let's see... I can't just buy a jailbreak device, and expect to automatically play pirated games. So, you're wrong on that front as well. Again, go learn a little something about it and then come back to play ball.




    The TOS, etc., don't protect from what consumers can do, it limits them, and that is WRONG.
    1. If I hack the device, I wouldn't expect Sony to provide any support... never said they should, and agree that they shouldn't.

    2. I determine how I use things I buy. End of story. That's how it should be. S

    3. Dude, what the heck? Sony will never determine what I do with my PS3.. .EVER. If you are happy with what Sony tells you to do, then go for it. I for one, will happily use my PS3 in any manner I see fit.

    4. Obviously it is. I purchase a product, and if I can expand it's functionality to fit my needs, I will. Sony doesn't have any right to tell me what I can install and run on the PS3. I wish the US would learn a lesson from Spain, and write laws that actually make sense instead of taking money from corporations and writing laws to suit their needs and leave the consumers with their mouths hanging open.
    1. You own the hardware. You "do not" own the OS. The US protects IP for everyone. Big and small. From large companies like MS and Sony, to startups like boxee, to individual business owners like many of the people who write apps on ipod/iphone. I am glad the US has laws to "protect" people and not only because the person doing the offending feels that it is right.

    2. Of course the TOS protects companies from what consumers do. Have you ever read it. I am serious. Sit down and read it. For such a large company they wrote in clauses that will protect them from individuals but it makes it really insane for them to go after an individual. Have you ever seen Sony go after individuals for simply modifying their device? The only way you can get the idea is that the consumer is limited, is if you try to exert your will over property that you don't own, namely the OS, then you can try that argument but ownership is 9/10ths of the law here. These companies license the software to you you don't own it. If you let a friend borrow your DVD, does he automatically own it because he puts it an a DVD player he owns? If you pay a membership fee to a video store does that gives you the right to "keep" anything you rent from the store?

    Why does it seem like people have such flexible concepts of ownership? What is so hard about understanding that you do NOT own the software?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kydosan View Post
    Attitudes towards individual liberties have completely nosedived over the past 5 years or so, it's very sad.

    Good move, Spain.

    Oh and since we're so keen on making definitive broad-brush statements about entire demographics with no evidence whatsoever: 100% of the people who buy jailbreak devices for piracy would never have purchased any games whatsoever anyway. They're pirates, the only reason to be a pirate is if you never ever intend to buy a game again.

    Wow debating is so much easier when you just make completely unrealistic, sweeping generalisations and do **** all to back them up
    Yeah, sure.... because of you download 5 games yet purchase 1, it makes it all better. Lol, your sweeping generalizations doesn't seem to be much better. It doesn't matter what they are going to do with the jailbreak, because of what it is, and what it intends to do, it is wrong. Change the OS, fine. But people using the jailbreak feel the entitlement to continue to connect to the PSN. It doesn't matter if ALL the apples are rotten, it only takes a few to spoil it for many. Lame guys using apps to boost their score in an online game, or other users finding out a way to play "backup" of games they don't own.

    What you don't seem to get, is that people aren't debating about what damage or good the homebrew people can do. It must be pointed out that hombrew people do not need to use a PS3, and because of the lack of native drivers for the console it is probably the worst experience they could have making apps for it. But really this is about the people who aim to pirate and damage, and no amount of deflection is going to persuade people that they do not exist.

  17. #67
    gameplaya96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    If you pay a membership fee to a video store does that gives you the right to "keep" anything you rent from the store?

    What is so hard about understanding that you do NOT own the software?
    What's your difficulty in understanding the difference between renting and owning? If I buy a film, I own the film. I don't have any rights to reuse it or publically broadcast it, but I do own it. If I want to mod my console then I am legally allowed to do it, just as I'm legally allowed to do as I wish with my PC which came preinstalled with Windows.

    It doesn't matter what they are going to do with the jailbreak, because of what it is, and what it intends to do, it is wrong.
    No. PSJailbreak allows you to mod, which is fine. If you then go on to pirate games it's your actions which are wrong. If Sony allow you to cheat online then they're the ones to blame and need to sort their **** out.

    But really this is about the people who aim to pirate and damage
    No it isn't, it's about PSJailbreak being declared legal in Spain, some people just seem to want to turn it into yet another anti piracy polemic.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by gameplaya96 View Post
    What's your difficulty in understanding the difference between renting and owning? If I buy a film, I own the film. I don't have any rights to reuse it or publically broadcast it, but I do own it. If I want to mod my console then I am legally allowed to do it, just as I'm legally allowed to do as I wish with my PC which came preinstalled with Windows.


    No. PSJailbreak allows you to mod, which is fine. If you then go on to pirate games it's your actions which are wrong. If Sony allow you to cheat online then they're the ones to blame and need to sort their **** out.


    No it isn't, it's about PSJailbreak being declared legal in Spain, some people just seem to want to turn it into yet another anti piracy polemic.
    No, check your terms of service, it says you bought a license to use the software, but its still owned by sony not you.

    edit
    You do not have any ownership rights or interests in the System Software. All intellectual property rights therein belong to SCE and its licensors, and all use or access to such System Software shall be subject to the terms of this Agreement and all applicable copyright and intellectual property laws
    edit also
    You may not (i) use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit, or modified hardware or software in connection with the System Software, including use of tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism for the PS3™ system
    Last edited by Chille; 12-18-2010 at 15:19.



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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staticneuron View Post
    1. You own the hardware. You "do not" own the OS. The US protects IP for everyone. Big and small. From large companies like MS and Sony, to startups like boxee, to individual business owners like many of the people who write apps on ipod/iphone. I am glad the US has laws to "protect" people and not only because the person doing the offending feels that it is right.

    2. Of course the TOS protects companies from what consumers do. Have you ever read it. I am serious. Sit down and read it. For such a large company they wrote in clauses that will protect them from individuals but it makes it really insane for them to go after an individual. Have you ever seen Sony go after individuals for simply modifying their device? The only way you can get the idea is that the consumer is limited, is if you try to exert your will over property that you don't own, namely the OS, then you can try that argument but ownership is 9/10ths of the law here. These companies license the software to you you don't own it. If you let a friend borrow your DVD, does he automatically own it because he puts it an a DVD player he owns? If you pay a membership fee to a video store does that gives you the right to "keep" anything you rent from the store?

    Why does it seem like people have such flexible concepts of ownership? What is so hard about understanding that you do NOT own the software?



    Yeah, sure.... because of you download 5 games yet purchase 1, it makes it all better. Lol, your sweeping generalizations doesn't seem to be much better. It doesn't matter what they are going to do with the jailbreak, because of what it is, and what it intends to do, it is wrong. Change the OS, fine. But people using the jailbreak feel the entitlement to continue to connect to the PSN. It doesn't matter if ALL the apples are rotten, it only takes a few to spoil it for many. Lame guys using apps to boost their score in an online game, or other users finding out a way to play "backup" of games they don't own.

    What you don't seem to get, is that people aren't debating about what damage or good the homebrew people can do. It must be pointed out that hombrew people do not need to use a PS3, and because of the lack of native drivers for the console it is probably the worst experience they could have making apps for it. But really this is about the people who aim to pirate and damage, and no amount of deflection is going to persuade people that they do not exist.
    I've read the EULA/TOS on every product that I've purchased.

    I concede that I don't own the software in such a literal sense, and we'll leave it at that. I don't think we'll ever agree on my stance with the software, or the laws that apply to it. The DVD rental example was a pretty poor analogy and isn't even remotely the same to what we're talking about.

    I don't use the PSN on my hacked PS3, but I don't really need to though, as I have a Slim for that purpose.

    I don't think anyone is trying to say that pirates don't exist, or that a majority of people that jailbreak do so for piracy... that's not the point at all. The point is Sony doesn't have the right to tell me what I can and can't do with my PS3. Period.

    As far as the homebrew statement you've made, you couldn't be further from the truth Static. There are some really promising apps out right now that are available and in development.




  20. #70
    gameplaya96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    No, check your terms of service, it says you bought a license to use the software, but its still owned by sony not you.
    I don't think you quite get the difference between ownership of a physical product and your ownership rights. If I buy a game I am allowed to sell it because I own it, but I am not allowed to do other things such as charge people entry to see it.



    I fullly accept the copyright to a game or OS is owned by the author/manufacturer and that I'm not legally allowed to modify it. But I do own the instance of the OS which is on my console and I'll change it if I want to thanks to the likes of PSJailbreak. Now it would be great if we could get away from telling each other what we can't do with our own machines and back to PSJailbreak and the implications of its sale being declared legal in Spain. As I've already said, I don't think it ought to be since it is primarily about enabling piracy, but that's Sony's own fault for messing up with OtherOS.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by gameplaya96 View Post
    I don't think you quite get the difference between ownership of a physical product and your ownership rights. If I buy a game I am allowed to sell it because I own it, but I am not allowed to do other things such as charge people entry to see it.



    I fullly accept the copyright to a game or OS is owned by the author/manufacturer and that I'm not legally allowed to modify it. But I do own the instance of the OS which is on my console and I'll change it if I want to thanks to the likes of PSJailbreak. Now it would be great if we could get away from telling each other what we can't do with our own machines and back to PSJailbreak and the implications of its sale being declared legal in Spain. As I've already said, I don't think it ought to be since it is primarily about enabling piracy, but that's Sony's own fault for messing up with OtherOS.
    actually lol your not allowed to resell games, that is also in term's, but its not punished.
    You may not resell Game Software unless expressly authorised by Sony Computer Entertainment Europe



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  22. #72
    gameplaya96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    actually lol your not allowed to resell games, that is also in term's, but its not punished.
    Of course you are, otherwise shops selling 2nd hand games would be sued out of business. The stuff you're not allowed to sell is stuff you're not allowed to buy - people, for example.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by gameplaya96 View Post
    Of course you are, otherwise shops selling 2nd hand games would be sued out of business. The stuff you're not allowed to sell is stuff you're not allowed to buy - people, for example.
    Read the game manual in any new game. its under terms and conditions, you bought the license to use the game, but not to resell, but because its impossible to track it, theres no way to enforce it.



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  24. #74
    gameplaya96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    Read the game manual in any new game. its under terms and conditions, you bought the license to use the game, but not to resell, but because its impossible to track it, theres no way to enforce it.
    You think it would be impossible to restrict the sale of drugs, guns, slaves, etc on Ebay? Dude, think for a second.

    * Anyway, we're back to rights, which nobody is disputing. I still own the physical instance of the game though, and can do with my console as I wish.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chille View Post
    Read the game manual in any new game. its under terms and conditions, you bought the license to use the game, but not to resell, but because its impossible to track it, theres no way to enforce it.
    Heck even US laws say I can resell a computer game. Anyways... back to Spain...




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