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  1. #2501

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    I'm glad to see that at least one side of the political aisle is providing us with plenty of humorous material... oh Mitt lol. It is the only time I really pay attention during these times because lets face it, Mitt is not going to talk about his policies or describe with detail how he plans to "make America great again" and I already know what Obama has/hasn't done for the country. I'm just waiting for the debates, those should be interesting even though I have no faith in either of them.

    With Obama or Romney at the helms not much will change, we need to focus this energy instead on Congress and not expect one individual to solve all of the countries problems in one term.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    People would vote with common sense. That's not gonna happen anytime soon.

    1. People are willfully ignorant.
    2. People are apathetic.
    3. People are gullible.
    4. People are self-centered.
    5. Politicians are immoral.
    6. Politicians are criminals.
    7. Politicians are self-centered.
    8. Politicians are willfully ignorant.
    9. Corporations are corrupt.
    10. Corporations are self-centered.
    11. Corporations are criminals.
    12. Corporations have the political process under lock and key.
    13. It would take an armed revolution for the system to be overthrown.
    14. The country doesn't have the stomach for an armed revolution.
    15. If there was an armed revolution, no one can say for certain if the military would uphold its constitutional oath.

    I don't know if there are any other reasons I can give.
    and yet... despite all these glowing characteristics that you've pointed out...

    ...aren't you the guy is for no rules/regulations/oversight? "Just let the almighty market run free and everything will be so much better"

    I am pleased that you broke out "people" from "corporations" though...

    By Theft
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    Trust me, it's sad

  3. #2503
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    and yet... despite all these glowing characteristics that you've pointed out...

    ...aren't you the guy is for no rules/regulations/oversight? "Just let the almighty market run free and everything will be so much better"

    I am pleased that you broke out "people" from "corporations" though...
    What I find funny about all of this is that people didn't give a $#@! until 2008 when all this was happening right under our noses long before. I guess it takes a recession for some to wake up.

  4. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    and yet... despite all these glowing characteristics that you've pointed out...

    ...aren't you the guy is for no rules/regulations/oversight? "Just let the almighty market run free and everything will be so much better"

    I am pleased that you broke out "people" from "corporations" though...
    LOL, still dragging up that old out of context "gaffe"?
    Last edited by weskurtz81; 09-20-2012 at 03:46.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


  5. #2505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    What I find funny about all of this is that people didn't give a $#@! until 2008 when all this was happening right under our noses long before. I guess it takes a recession for some to wake up.
    Well duh.

    The Keynesians were so convinced things were going fantastic that the handful of (nominally) Austrian economists that had been warning for years that $#@! was about to hit the fan got openly laughed at when they were interviewed.

    Nobody is laughing now.

    See, the thing about Keynesians is their point of view prevents the possibility of them being wrong. In 2008 they didn't say "Oh my God, look where our foolish policies lead us!" (in spite of Austrian warnings) they instead said "Well, while the economic recession was indeed surprising at least we bailed out those auto makers and passed stimulus packages. Can you imagine how bad things would be if we hadn't?"

    At no point in this equation do they say "Perhaps our fiscal policies have been fundamentally unsound."

    Keynesian economics CREATES bubbles. Their policies flesh this out so black and white that it is simply glaring. In addition, they do not like the concept of 'savings'. Demand demand demand..

    Bernanke is as incompetent as he is balding, and Krugman is starting to shift in his seat uncomfortably at some of the scathing criticism lobbed at him for economic statements made pre and during the recession. Comically he's pointing towards the so called "austerity" measures of europe as somehow being indicative of the Austrian position (crafting a strawman) and saying "WELL SEE HOW BAD THEY ARE? WE'RE DOING BETTER!" its pathetic.

    Since Keynesism is tied to statism no present D.C. Politician will willingly do anything about the FED or current monetary policy. That would basically be giving up some of their power and limiting government control... And since most of the 'economic experts' and such at the FED have tons of Wallstreet buddies guess who gets the majority of their asses bailed out when their piss poor plans implode? The banksters and wallstreet types.

    Just rewarding bad and corrupt behavior.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 09-20-2012 at 04:20.


  6. #2506
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    i agree this entire thing between Romney and Obama is going to be entertaining. basically all it is. honestly, the same crap they are talking about, pretty much was the same crap that was being talked about with 40 years ago and still, these problems get worse, not better. I just find it funny that these people running for president and get voted in are basically cavemen that don't know their head from their ass. you want proof, just watch a debate regardless on who you like between Obama and Romney and you will say "WTF" to both of them. ugh.

  7. #2507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I agree with some liberal policies but that doesn't make me a liberal. I agree with conservatives on some things too. But i totally get why you think the way you do. Its pretty sad to see what has become of the republican party.
    Still curious what things you agree with conservatives on.
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  8. #2508
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    and yet... despite all these glowing characteristics that you've pointed out...

    ...aren't you the guy is for no rules/regulations/oversight? "Just let the almighty market run free and everything will be so much better"

    I am pleased that you broke out "people" from "corporations" though...
    DayWalker. You have A LOT to learn about me and my stances before you can begin to consider to make generalizations like this.

    1. Wanting to put the responsibility on the free market and thus, the individual, isn't the same as wanting no rules/regulations/oversight. At some point, the individual HAS to accept personal responsibility for his/her actions.

    2. I purposefully separated "people" from "corporations" because I've NEVER viewed corporations as people, ever. A corporation can never become a person because it does not share any characteristics which would qualify something as a person.

  9. #2509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    DayWalker. You have A LOT to learn about me and my stances before you can begin to consider to make generalizations like this.
    Thats all they do here. Make generalizations about people they know nothing about.

    But I don't expect much less from a person who supports Obama.
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  10. #2510
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    Agreed. Libertarians are not Anarchists.

    We don't believe in "no government" just a much, much smaller decentralized one. We do believe that true free market guided solutions are superior at allocating resources effectively vs government.

    Part of the problem today is the market is so... Fused.. With government that whenever we see something bad happen in the so-called 'private sector' people point at it and go "and here we see the inherent flaws of the free market. Left to their own devices they're wicked!"...

    But look at all of the federal regulation, oversight, definitions and coercion going on here.

    Who truly defines a 'corporation' and treats it like a person? Government.

    Who props up businesses that are inefficient, corrupt, and abusive but full of wealthy powerful people that support political campaigns?Government.

    Who creates and passes laws which favor aforementioned institutions and groups due to intense lobbying and financial promises? Government.

    Finally, who is it that is chiefly in control of our financial policy as a nation with extremely little oversight and has routinely used its power to bail out 'buddies'? Quasi-Government FED.


    Capitalism isn't the problem- it's the solution. What we have now is crony capitalism. Government and powerful, select, economic entities sleeping in the same bed together. One anecdote: Clarence Thomas and his relationship with Monsanto.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 09-20-2012 at 17:06.


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  12. #2511
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    ... you don't really go into rich, powerful, businessmen... infilitrating government... with the idea of helping out their buddies...

    By Theft
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    Trust me, it's sad

  13. #2512
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    Clarify, that post made no sense. Not as in "I don't agree" but as in "I'm not quite sure what you mean".


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    Biden: Cheerleaders performance 'blows my mind' | The Daily Caller

    "He cradled a football under his arm as he spoke,” the pool report, written by The New York Times’ Trip Gabriel, reads. "He began by asking which teams were represented — football, soccer, lacrosse and cross-country. Any others? He asked. ‘Cheerleaders,’ a group of girls shouted.”

    "Guess what, the cheerleaders in college are the best athletes in college,” Biden said. "You think, I’m joking, they’re almost all gymnasts, the stuff they do on hard wood, it blows my mind.”

  15. #2514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I hope all that includes Ron Paul too.
    Nope. He is the ONLY politician who ISN'T corrupt. Nice try though.

  16. #2515
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Thats all they do here. Make generalizations about people they know nothing about.

    But I don't expect much less from a person who supports Obama.
    OMG this is incredible. WOW. I hope you appreciate the irony here. $#@! me this is too perfect.
    "Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life"

    Quote Originally Posted by dc89 View Post
    If this makes time travel possible I'll go forward in time voluntarily to get my hands on CoD34 and Final Fantasy Versus XIII. They come out in the same year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    I dont think i could take a dick, 1. im not gay and 2 one time i stuck my finger in my butt to see how it felt and i wasn't very pleased with the experience

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    #2 If you comprehended my post, you would understand that I said the Democrats invoke god in their convention as well.
    For a nation that is still as religious as it is, not invoking god would be political suicide. In a nation where 40% of the population believe in creationism (ive seen varying figures for this, some upwards of 50%, most of the sources are from lefty publications (naturally) so posting a link will be pointless because the source can be torn apart) you have to talk about god, because people still believe in a deity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    The healthy stuff where I live is $4 a loaf. The cheap stuff is $2 a loaf. I remember five years ago, I could buy the healthy stuff for $1.50 when it wasn't on sale and the cheap stuff was $.50 a loaf. In that time the price of food has gone up more than 150% overall. If that isn't the result of inflation, I dunno what is.
    International rise in the price of grain, and thus flower.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Those are the main things I do care about. I know that neither will be going anywhere for a long time, but its what I look into first when voting.
    I really struggle how you can be in favour of the government getting involved in your personal lives and telling you what you can and cant do in the privacy of your own home. Imagine if they told you you couldn't marry your current wife because of some government legislation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Well duh.

    The Keynesians were so convinced things were going fantastic that the handful of (nominally) Austrian economists that had been warning for years that $#@! was about to hit the fan got openly laughed at when they were interviewed.

    Nobody is laughing now.

    See, the thing about Keynesians is their point of view prevents the possibility of them being wrong. In 2008 they didn't say "Oh my God, look where our foolish policies lead us!" (in spite of Austrian warnings) they instead said "Well, while the economic recession was indeed surprising at least we bailed out those auto makers and passed stimulus packages. Can you imagine how bad things would be if we hadn't?"

    At no point in this equation do they say "Perhaps our fiscal policies have been fundamentally unsound."

    Keynesian economics CREATES bubbles. Their policies flesh this out so black and white that it is simply glaring. In addition, they do not like the concept of 'savings'. Demand demand demand..

    Bernanke is as incompetent as he is balding, and Krugman is starting to shift in his seat uncomfortably at some of the scathing criticism lobbed at him for economic statements made pre and during the recession. Comically he's pointing towards the so called "austerity" measures of europe as somehow being indicative of the Austrian position (crafting a strawman) and saying "WELL SEE HOW BAD THEY ARE? WE'RE DOING BETTER!" its pathetic.

    Since Keynesism is tied to statism no present D.C. Politician will willingly do anything about the FED or current monetary policy. That would basically be giving up some of their power and limiting government control... And since most of the 'economic experts' and such at the FED have tons of Wallstreet buddies guess who gets the majority of their asses bailed out when their piss poor plans implode? The banksters and wallstreet types.

    Just rewarding bad and corrupt behavior.
    spot on.


    However, I honestly cannot see an alternative to Keynesian economics in terms of a modern capitalist society. Massive corporations need excessive consumer spending to survive, if we all lived by our means and only got what we needed and never borrowed money nearly all consumer electronics businesses would disappear. You don't need to get a new tv every 5 years, but many people do. My dad only just brought a HD tv this year, we have had an old crt tv for over 10 years. It still works and would continue to work for probably another 5 or so, but he wanted a new one and had some money to do so. But most people have had a HDTV for about 5 or 6 years now, I know I got my one about 5 years back. (I know people who buy a new tv every 18 months or so. That's how our current system operates, and massive debts and excessive spending are a fundamental to its continuation. The bubble has to burst every few years or so. There has been a recession in nearly every decade (or every other decade) since the end of the war. Its how the model works, and in my eyes has to continue to work.
    Last edited by squirrelbo1; 09-22-2012 at 13:30.
    "Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life"

    Quote Originally Posted by dc89 View Post
    If this makes time travel possible I'll go forward in time voluntarily to get my hands on CoD34 and Final Fantasy Versus XIII. They come out in the same year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    I dont think i could take a dick, 1. im not gay and 2 one time i stuck my finger in my butt to see how it felt and i wasn't very pleased with the experience

  18. #2517
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    Sounds intriguing.

  19. #2518
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    Vulg what would you do about money ? You want to get rid of the fed. Would you have different banks issuing their own competing currencies ?

    Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
    "Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life"

    Quote Originally Posted by dc89 View Post
    If this makes time travel possible I'll go forward in time voluntarily to get my hands on CoD34 and Final Fantasy Versus XIII. They come out in the same year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    I dont think i could take a dick, 1. im not gay and 2 one time i stuck my finger in my butt to see how it felt and i wasn't very pleased with the experience

  20. #2519
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    I just wouldn't have the FED lol. Just because your remove the FED doesn't mean suddenly the US wouldn't have its own 'national' currency. It just means there isn't a central authority which is only sort of subordinate to our government (quasi-gov\private entity) in direct control of our monetary policy.

    I mean we've seen some disturbing stuff that they've been doing behind closed doors.. Throwing money around like candy and bailing our their buddies.

    ..But as for "what I would do" after hypothetically ending the FED- I'm at a cross roads there. I can see the argument against tying the dollar to a commodity but I think it is also quite clear what kind of horrors fiat currency can unleash.

    What I have against the FED is that it is basically autonomous and corrupt. Not unlike most of the federal government in a way, but they truly do represent what is worst about both worlds (government\banking sector).


  21. #2520
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    Yeah but who would controll the national currency ? Who would print the money ? That needs a nationally controlled agency.

    Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
    "Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life"

    Quote Originally Posted by dc89 View Post
    If this makes time travel possible I'll go forward in time voluntarily to get my hands on CoD34 and Final Fantasy Versus XIII. They come out in the same year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    I dont think i could take a dick, 1. im not gay and 2 one time i stuck my finger in my butt to see how it felt and i wasn't very pleased with the experience

  22. #2521
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    First thing is first. I'd rip the FED's charter up and round up every banker, financier and Wall Street Guru and try them all for treason. After that, I know what I'd do. I'd tie the dollar to rare commodities. Gold, Silver, Platinum, Palladium, Iridium and other rare earth metals should do fine. Then, out of sheer necessity and principle, I'd legalize competing currencies so long as they're tied to one or more of the above. Then, I'd dismantle the IRS and round up every higher up and try them all for treason too. Finally, I'd call for a constitutional convention to repeal, "The Federal Reserve Act Of 1913" and the 16th Amendment.

  23. #2522
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    So you would reintroduce the gold standard essentially ? That has a lot of issues. Firstly just increasing price of gold and also creating another reason to fight wars.

    Also who would oversee the retention of said rare material ?

    Also on the bankers stuff why ? Plus you can't really be in favour of the free market if you round up the very embodiment of the system and put them on trial for treason (not quite sure how you got that either)

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    Last edited by squirrelbo1; 09-25-2012 at 00:37.
    "Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life"

    Quote Originally Posted by dc89 View Post
    If this makes time travel possible I'll go forward in time voluntarily to get my hands on CoD34 and Final Fantasy Versus XIII. They come out in the same year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    I dont think i could take a dick, 1. im not gay and 2 one time i stuck my finger in my butt to see how it felt and i wasn't very pleased with the experience

  24. #2523
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    well, the last I checked the gold standard was by far better then this fiat bull$#@!.

    also, your comment is a good example of why the dollar is in the crap it's in. you are to busy worrying about certain people being rich and in turn your ready to $#@! everything up so it doesn't happen. meaning "The dollar is now worthless but because that guy isn't rich or those guys aren't it was worth it"...

    what this basically is, is a brown nose move and it's always from people that hate others because they have money. you see a lot of this bull$#@!, someone buys up stuff now people hate him because he has money. as in, lightning always strikes the highest tower, in this case the normal everyday people are lightning. If people would stop worrying about what "$#@! and jane" do, this world would be so much better. Basically all the "tweedle dees & tweedle dums" can't stand to see someone making money so instead they would rather make the dollar crash & burn and $#@! everything up for everyone else just so certain people can't get rich.

    Money has to be attached to something else other than thin air. having a gold standard makes the dollar worth something. since our money isn't attached to anything that is called fiat money and what happens then is basically the dollar has no value, the dollar across the globe in a lot of areas is worth less than half. the fact alone that we don't have money attached to anything is really starting to show, our dollar isn't worth nearly as much as when we had the gold standard. wow someone got rich.

    the gold standard has many things that we obviously need. having a gold standard prevents printing to much money, or printing money out of thin air. many other things having a gold standard actually helps prevent. but that wont happen now because we use that crappy fiat bs.

    EDITED (ADDED MORE) .....but also there is a bad side to the gold standard, that is a shock of an economic downslide, but while it can get severe it doesn't last that long. in fact if we were on a gold standard we would have been out of this $#@!hole, we wouldn't even be in the situation we are currently in. so whatever, I can definitely see the good and bad of the gold standard but the good seems to far outweigh the bad.

    probably in 20 years a $1 bill will just be used for emergency toilet paper. sell it in the stores, "Fiat toilet paper". Fiat toilet paper, you wont get dirty cotton balls in your bum after using it.
    Last edited by Bigdoggy; 09-25-2012 at 03:04.

  25. #2524
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelbo1 View Post
    So you would reintroduce the gold standard essentially ? That has a lot of issues. Firstly just increasing price of gold and also creating another reason to fight wars.

    Also who would oversee the retention of said rare material ?

    Also on the bankers stuff why ? Plus you can't really be in favour of the free market if you round up the very embodiment of the system and put them on trial for treason (not quite sure how you got that either)

    Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
    Here's the thing about tying our currency to gold or another finite commodity. It's finite. It reins in government by forcing it to live within its means. You cannot fight a war if you don't have the commodity to wage it.

    As for the banker stuff? The reason I've proposed this is because bankers and financiers have profited off the backs of millions. People have died fighting their wars, forced on the streets through no fault of their own and living lives enslaved to debt. They have subverted the sovereignty of just about every nation. This is treason and is punishable by death. These people need to be indicted, tried, convicted and sentenced for their crimes against humanity and sovereignty of nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feffle View Post
    ...
    The problem is also the solution. Tying our currency to a rare commodity or commodities gives it value. This is a value not inherent in fiat currencies. By tying a currency to a rare commodity or commodities, you ensure that productive capacity is not squandered, wars are never trifle and economic growth is real instead of illusory. I would suggest that technology makers find new ways to produce electronics and semiconductors which don't include gold and other commodities currently in use. Also, I suggest that purchasing of said commodities comes from physical tangible labor, not off the backs of others.
    Last edited by Ixion; 09-25-2012 at 02:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdoggy View Post
    well, the last I checked the gold standard was by far better then this fiat bull$#@!.

    also, your comment is a good example of why the dollar is in the crap it's in. you are to busy worrying about certain people being rich and in turn your ready to $#@! everything up so it doesn't happen. meaning "The dollar is now worthless but because that guy isn't rich or those guys aren't it was worth it"...

    what this basically is, is a brown nose move and it's always from people that hate others because they have money. you see a lot of this bull$#@!, someone buys up stuff now people hate him because he has money. as in, lightning always strikes the highest tower, in this case the normal everyday people are lightning. If people would stop worrying about what "$#@! and jane" do, this world would be so much better. Basically all the "tweedle dees & tweedle dums" can't stand to see someone making money so instead they would rather make the dollar crash & burn and $#@! everything up for everyone else just so certain people can't get rich.

    Money has to be attached to something else other than thin air. having a gold standard makes the dollar worth something. since our money isn't attached to anything that is called fiat money and what happens then is basically the dollar has no value, the dollar across the globe in a lot of areas is worth less than half. the fact alone that we don't have money attached to anything is really starting to show, our dollar isn't worth nearly as much as when we had the gold standard. wow someone got rich.

    the gold standard has many things that we obviously need. having a gold standard prevents printing to much money, or printing money out of thin air. many other things having a gold standard actually helps prevent. but that wont happen now because we use that crappy fiat bs.

    EDITED (ADDED MORE) .....but also there is a bad side to the gold standard, that is a shock of an economic downslide, but while it can get severe it doesn't last that long. in fact if we were on a gold standard we would have been out of this $#@!hole, we wouldn't even be in the situation we are currently in. so whatever, I can definitely see the good and bad of the gold standard but the good seems to far outweigh the bad.

    probably in 20 years a $1 bill will just be used for emergency toilet paper. sell it in the stores, "Fiat toilet paper". Fiat toilet paper, you wont get dirty cotton balls in your bum after using it.
    Who is this addressed too. I was in favour of the bankers but against gold standard. Whereas morg was for gold standard and against the bankers.

    The fact that the dollar is the world currency gives it its value. Yeah the dollar is worth half of other currencies but it always has been. The pound has at times been worth twice as much as the dollar and this was when both countries were enjoying booms. Now everybody is struggling the dollar is actually comparatively competitive verses the euro and the pound.

    The big issue for you guys will be if and when china floats her currency on the world market, and makes it convertible. Attaching the dollar to gold (or whatever) will make it worthless on the international scene and people will just use Chinese currency for international deals.


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