General Politics Thread

[Morganator]

What would happen if we got rid of political parties and started voting on an individual based on what they would do as president and his or her track record?

People would vote with common sense. That's not gonna happen anytime soon.

1. People are willfully ignorant.
2. People are apathetic.
3. People are gullible.
4. People are self-centered.
5. Politicians are immoral.
6. Politicians are criminals.
7. Politicians are self-centered.
8. Politicians are willfully ignorant.
9. Corporations are corrupt.
10. Corporations are self-centered.
11. Corporations are criminals.
12. Corporations have the political process under lock and key.
13. It would take an armed revolution for the system to be overthrown.
14. The country doesn't have the stomach for an armed revolution.
15. If there was an armed revolution, no one can say for certain if the military would uphold its constitutional oath.

I don't know if there are any other reasons I can give.

[Sub-stance1]

at the same time it's sad to see what has become of the democratic party but then again I just quoted a person that is so left wing that the scale completely flipped over, not a good thing. lol

Also, agree with conservatives then basically agreeing with Obama 100% is very hypocritical. so you are saying you agree with some conservative policies but as previous comments from yours show you agree with Obama 100% and Obama is the complete opposite of conservative. then again I am again quoting someone that will use the "he inherited this problem" if he's a president for the 2nd term. 8 years total you will still use that excuse LOL.

stop trying to butter up certain people in this forum Sub-stance, most of the people here know you are 100% pro Obama no matter how stupid Obamas ideas are, you will still agree with them. rofl

I don't agree with any politician 100% on anything. I also don't disagree with everything Obama does like some of you. I care about the main issues and don't sweat the small stuff. If he is or isn't voted in a second term, life will still go on. I don't know what's wrong with some of you here. Even a blind man can see that the republican party has issues. They aren't united and they still don't have a clear message. The democratic party seems to be much more united and they stay on message. Republicans are all over the place. You would of thought that they learned their lesson back in 2008 when they selected a goof ball like Palin over better and more qualified candidates. They better tighten their shit up or they will be defeated in November. If that bugs you, then its too bad because its the truth.

Also Obama did inherit a lot of the crap. The majority of Americans still blame Bush more than Obama for the failing economy. That's a fact. Why do you think he left office with a extremely low approval rating? Bush and the republicans tried to keep quiet about the failing economy because they knew an election was coming up and people only had to look back at republicans because they had the White House for the last eight years. Of course with you being a conservative/right winger you won't admit it. I'm sure you also thought WMD's were in Iraq too....lol

People would vote with common sense. That's not gonna happen anytime soon.

1. People are willfully ignorant.
2. People are apathetic.
3. People are gullible.
4. People are self-centered.
5. Politicians are immoral.
6. Politicians are criminals.
7. Politicians are self-centered.
8. Politicians are willfully ignorant.
9. Corporations are corrupt.
10. Corporations are self-centered.
11. Corporations are criminals.
12. Corporations have the political process under lock and key.
13. It would take an armed revolution for the system to be overthrown.
14. The country doesn't have the stomach for an armed revolution.
15. If there was an armed revolution, no one can say for certain if the military would uphold its constitutional oath.

I don't know if there are any other reasons I can give.

I hope all that includes Ron Paul too.

[TwentyThree]

I'm glad to see that at least one side of the political aisle is providing us with plenty of humorous material... oh Mitt lol. It is the only time I really pay attention during these times because lets face it, Mitt is not going to talk about his policies or describe with detail how he plans to "make America great again" and I already know what Obama has/hasn't done for the country. I'm just waiting for the debates, those should be interesting even though I have no faith in either of them.

With Obama or Romney at the helms not much will change, we need to focus this energy instead on Congress and not expect one individual to solve all of the countries problems in one term.

[DayWalker]

People would vote with common sense. That's not gonna happen anytime soon.

1. People are willfully ignorant.
2. People are apathetic.
3. People are gullible.
4. People are self-centered.
5. Politicians are immoral.
6. Politicians are criminals.
7. Politicians are self-centered.
8. Politicians are willfully ignorant.
9. Corporations are corrupt.
10. Corporations are self-centered.
11. Corporations are criminals.
12. Corporations have the political process under lock and key.
13. It would take an armed revolution for the system to be overthrown.
14. The country doesn't have the stomach for an armed revolution.
15. If there was an armed revolution, no one can say for certain if the military would uphold its constitutional oath.

I don't know if there are any other reasons I can give.

and yet... despite all these glowing characteristics that you've pointed out...

...aren't you the guy is for no rules/regulations/oversight? "Just let the almighty market run free and everything will be so much better"

I am pleased that you broke out "people" from "corporations" though...

[Sub-stance1]

and yet... despite all these glowing characteristics that you've pointed out...

...aren't you the guy is for no rules/regulations/oversight? "Just let the almighty market run free and everything will be so much better"

I am pleased that you broke out "people" from "corporations" though...

What I find funny about all of this is that people didn't give a shit until 2008 when all this was happening right under our noses long before. I guess it takes a recession for some to wake up.

[weskurtz81]

and yet... despite all these glowing characteristics that you've pointed out...

...aren't you the guy is for no rules/regulations/oversight? "Just let the almighty market run free and everything will be so much better"

I am pleased that you broke out "people" from "corporations" though...

LOL, still dragging up that old out of context "gaffe"?

[Vulgotha]

What I find funny about all of this is that people didn't give a shit until 2008 when all this was happening right under our noses long before. I guess it takes a recession for some to wake up.

Well duh.

The Keynesians were so convinced things were going fantastic that the handful of (nominally) Austrian economists that had been warning for years that shit was about to hit the fan got openly laughed at when they were interviewed.

Nobody is laughing now.

See, the thing about Keynesians is their point of view prevents the possibility of them being wrong. In 2008 they didn't say "Oh my God, look where our foolish policies lead us!" (in spite of Austrian warnings) they instead said "Well, while the economic recession was indeed surprising at least we bailed out those auto makers and passed stimulus packages. Can you imagine how bad things would be if we hadn't?"

At no point in this equation do they say "Perhaps our fiscal policies have been fundamentally unsound."

Keynesian economics CREATES bubbles. Their policies flesh this out so black and white that it is simply glaring. In addition, they do not like the concept of 'savings'. Demand demand demand..

Bernanke is as incompetent as he is balding, and Krugman is starting to shift in his seat uncomfortably at some of the scathing criticism lobbed at him for economic statements made pre and during the recession. Comically he's pointing towards the so called "austerity" measures of europe as somehow being indicative of the Austrian position (crafting a strawman) and saying "WELL SEE HOW BAD THEY ARE? WE'RE DOING BETTER!" its pathetic.

Since Keynesism is tied to statism no present D.C. Politician will willingly do anything about the FED or current monetary policy. That would basically be giving up some of their power and limiting government control... And since most of the 'economic experts' and such at the FED have tons of Wallstreet buddies guess who gets the majority of their asses bailed out when their piss poor plans implode? The banksters and wallstreet types.

Just rewarding bad and corrupt behavior.

[Bigdoggy]

i agree this entire thing between Romney and Obama is going to be entertaining. basically all it is. honestly, the same crap they are talking about, pretty much was the same crap that was being talked about with 40 years ago and still, these problems get worse, not better. I just find it funny that these people running for president and get voted in are basically cavemen that don't know their head from their ass. you want proof, just watch a debate regardless on who you like between Obama and Romney and you will say "WTF" to both of them. ugh.

[-Kwesnoth-]

I agree with some liberal policies but that doesn't make me a liberal. I agree with conservatives on some things too. But i totally get why you think the way you do. Its pretty sad to see what has become of the republican party.

Still curious what things you agree with conservatives on.

[Morganator]

and yet... despite all these glowing characteristics that you've pointed out...

...aren't you the guy is for no rules/regulations/oversight? "Just let the almighty market run free and everything will be so much better"

I am pleased that you broke out "people" from "corporations" though...

DayWalker. You have A LOT to learn about me and my stances before you can begin to consider to make generalizations like this.

1. Wanting to put the responsibility on the free market and thus, the individual, isn't the same as wanting no rules/regulations/oversight. At some point, the individual HAS to accept personal responsibility for his/her actions.

2. I purposefully separated "people" from "corporations" because I've NEVER viewed corporations as people, ever. A corporation can never become a person because it does not share any characteristics which would qualify something as a person.

[-Kwesnoth-]

DayWalker. You have A LOT to learn about me and my stances before you can begin to consider to make generalizations like this.

Thats all they do here. Make generalizations about people they know nothing about.

But I don't expect much less from a person who supports Obama.

[Vulgotha]

Agreed. Libertarians are not Anarchists.

We don't believe in "no government" just a much, much smaller decentralized one. We do believe that true free market guided solutions are superior at allocating resources effectively vs government.

Part of the problem today is the market is so... Fused.. With government that whenever we see something bad happen in the so-called 'private sector' people point at it and go "and here we see the inherent flaws of the free market. Left to their own devices they're wicked!"...

But look at all of the federal regulation, oversight, definitions and coercion going on here.

Who truly defines a 'corporation' and treats it like a person? Government.

Who props up businesses that are inefficient, corrupt, and abusive but full of wealthy powerful people that support political campaigns?Government.

Who creates and passes laws which favor aforementioned institutions and groups due to intense lobbying and financial promises? Government.

Finally, who is it that is chiefly in control of our financial policy as a nation with extremely little oversight and has routinely used its power to bail out 'buddies'? Quasi-Government FED.


Capitalism isn't the problem- it's the solution. What we have now is crony capitalism. Government and powerful, select, economic entities sleeping in the same bed together. One anecdote: Clarence Thomas and his relationship with Monsanto.

[DayWalker]

... you don't really go into rich, powerful, businessmen... infilitrating government... with the idea of helping out their buddies...

[Vulgotha]

Clarify, that post made no sense. Not as in "I don't agree" but as in "I'm not quite sure what you mean".

[MATRIX 2]

Biden: Cheerleaders performance 'blows my mind' | The Daily Caller

"He cradled a football under his arm as he spoke,” the pool report, written by The New York Times’ Trip Gabriel, reads. "He began by asking which teams were represented — football, soccer, lacrosse and cross-country. Any others? He asked. ‘Cheerleaders,’ a group of girls shouted.”

"Guess what, the cheerleaders in college are the best athletes in college,” Biden said. "You think, I’m joking, they’re almost all gymnasts, the stuff they do on hard wood, it blows my mind.”

[Morganator]

I hope all that includes Ron Paul too.

Nope. He is the ONLY politician who ISN'T corrupt. Nice try though.

[squirrelbo1]

Thats all they do here. Make generalizations about people they know nothing about.

But I don't expect much less from a person who supports Obama.

OMG this is incredible. WOW. I hope you appreciate the irony here. fuck me this is too perfect.

[squirrelbo1]

#2 If you comprehended my post, you would understand that I said the Democrats invoke god in their convention as well.

For a nation that is still as religious as it is, not invoking god would be political suicide. In a nation where 40% of the population believe in creationism (ive seen varying figures for this, some upwards of 50%, most of the sources are from lefty publications (naturally) so posting a link will be pointless because the source can be torn apart) you have to talk about god, because people still believe in a deity.

The healthy stuff where I live is $4 a loaf. The cheap stuff is $2 a loaf. I remember five years ago, I could buy the healthy stuff for $1.50 when it wasn't on sale and the cheap stuff was $.50 a loaf. In that time the price of food has gone up more than 150% overall. If that isn't the result of inflation, I dunno what is.

International rise in the price of grain, and thus flower.

Those are the main things I do care about. I know that neither will be going anywhere for a long time, but its what I look into first when voting.

I really struggle how you can be in favour of the government getting involved in your personal lives and telling you what you can and cant do in the privacy of your own home. Imagine if they told you you couldn't marry your current wife because of some government legislation.

Well duh.

The Keynesians were so convinced things were going fantastic that the handful of (nominally) Austrian economists that had been warning for years that shit was about to hit the fan got openly laughed at when they were interviewed.

Nobody is laughing now.

See, the thing about Keynesians is their point of view prevents the possibility of them being wrong. In 2008 they didn't say "Oh my God, look where our foolish policies lead us!" (in spite of Austrian warnings) they instead said "Well, while the economic recession was indeed surprising at least we bailed out those auto makers and passed stimulus packages. Can you imagine how bad things would be if we hadn't?"

At no point in this equation do they say "Perhaps our fiscal policies have been fundamentally unsound."

Keynesian economics CREATES bubbles. Their policies flesh this out so black and white that it is simply glaring. In addition, they do not like the concept of 'savings'. Demand demand demand..

Bernanke is as incompetent as he is balding, and Krugman is starting to shift in his seat uncomfortably at some of the scathing criticism lobbed at him for economic statements made pre and during the recession. Comically he's pointing towards the so called "austerity" measures of europe as somehow being indicative of the Austrian position (crafting a strawman) and saying "WELL SEE HOW BAD THEY ARE? WE'RE DOING BETTER!" its pathetic.

Since Keynesism is tied to statism no present D.C. Politician will willingly do anything about the FED or current monetary policy. That would basically be giving up some of their power and limiting government control... And since most of the 'economic experts' and such at the FED have tons of Wallstreet buddies guess who gets the majority of their asses bailed out when their piss poor plans implode? The banksters and wallstreet types.

Just rewarding bad and corrupt behavior.

spot on.


However, I honestly cannot see an alternative to Keynesian economics in terms of a modern capitalist society. Massive corporations need excessive consumer spending to survive, if we all lived by our means and only got what we needed and never borrowed money nearly all consumer electronics businesses would disappear. You don't need to get a new tv every 5 years, but many people do. My dad only just brought a HD tv this year, we have had an old crt tv for over 10 years. It still works and would continue to work for probably another 5 or so, but he wanted a new one and had some money to do so. But most people have had a HDTV for about 5 or 6 years now, I know I got my one about 5 years back. (I know people who buy a new tv every 18 months or so. That's how our current system operates, and massive debts and excessive spending are a fundamental to its continuation. The bubble has to burst every few years or so. There has been a recession in nearly every decade (or every other decade) since the end of the war. Its how the model works, and in my eyes has to continue to work.

[Grobby]

Sounds intriguing.

[squirrelbo1]

Vulg what would you do about money ? You want to get rid of the fed. Would you have different banks issuing their own competing currencies ?

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[Vulgotha]

I just wouldn't have the FED lol. Just because your remove the FED doesn't mean suddenly the US wouldn't have its own 'national' currency. It just means there isn't a central authority which is only sort of subordinate to our government (quasi-gov\private entity) in direct control of our monetary policy.

I mean we've seen some disturbing stuff that they've been doing behind closed doors.. Throwing money around like candy and bailing our their buddies.

..But as for "what I would do" after hypothetically ending the FED- I'm at a cross roads there. I can see the argument against tying the dollar to a commodity but I think it is also quite clear what kind of horrors fiat currency can unleash.

What I have against the FED is that it is basically autonomous and corrupt. Not unlike most of the federal government in a way, but they truly do represent what is worst about both worlds (government\banking sector).

[squirrelbo1]

Yeah but who would controll the national currency ? Who would print the money ? That needs a nationally controlled agency.

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[Morganator]

First thing is first. I'd rip the FED's charter up and round up every banker, financier and Wall Street Guru and try them all for treason. After that, I know what I'd do. I'd tie the dollar to rare commodities. Gold, Silver, Platinum, Palladium, Iridium and other rare earth metals should do fine. Then, out of sheer necessity and principle, I'd legalize competing currencies so long as they're tied to one or more of the above. Then, I'd dismantle the IRS and round up every higher up and try them all for treason too. Finally, I'd call for a constitutional convention to repeal, "The Federal Reserve Act Of 1913" and the 16th Amendment.

[squirrelbo1]

So you would reintroduce the gold standard essentially ? That has a lot of issues. Firstly just increasing price of gold and also creating another reason to fight wars.

Also who would oversee the retention of said rare material ?

Also on the bankers stuff why ? Plus you can't really be in favour of the free market if you round up the very embodiment of the system and put them on trial for treason (not quite sure how you got that either)

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[Bigdoggy]

well, the last I checked the gold standard was by far better then this fiat bullshit.

also, your comment is a good example of why the dollar is in the crap it's in. you are to busy worrying about certain people being rich and in turn your ready to fuck everything up so it doesn't happen. meaning "The dollar is now worthless but because that guy isn't rich or those guys aren't it was worth it"...

what this basically is, is a brown nose move and it's always from people that hate others because they have money. you see a lot of this bullshit, someone buys up stuff now people hate him because he has money. as in, lightning always strikes the highest tower, in this case the normal everyday people are lightning. If people would stop worrying about what "dick and jane" do, this world would be so much better. Basically all the "tweedle dees & tweedle dums" can't stand to see someone making money so instead they would rather make the dollar crash & burn and fuck everything up for everyone else just so certain people can't get rich.

Money has to be attached to something else other than thin air. having a gold standard makes the dollar worth something. since our money isn't attached to anything that is called fiat money and what happens then is basically the dollar has no value, the dollar across the globe in a lot of areas is worth less than half. the fact alone that we don't have money attached to anything is really starting to show, our dollar isn't worth nearly as much as when we had the gold standard. wow someone got rich.

the gold standard has many things that we obviously need. having a gold standard prevents printing to much money, or printing money out of thin air. many other things having a gold standard actually helps prevent. but that wont happen now because we use that crappy fiat bs.

EDITED (ADDED MORE) .....but also there is a bad side to the gold standard, that is a shock of an economic downslide, but while it can get severe it doesn't last that long. in fact if we were on a gold standard we would have been out of this shithole, we wouldn't even be in the situation we are currently in. so whatever, I can definitely see the good and bad of the gold standard but the good seems to far outweigh the bad.

probably in 20 years a $1 bill will just be used for emergency toilet paper. sell it in the stores, "Fiat toilet paper". Fiat toilet paper, you wont get dirty cotton balls in your bum after using it.