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    Economy, employment, financial subsidies and taxes given billions a year to companies, technology advancement, immigration, education.

    That talk about hurting or helping the middle class is party/candidate propaganda to get people to $#@!ing vote for them. Helping the low and middle class is an obvious need that isn't ever really addressed past the basics they implement. If those things I listed above were addressed properly, for the citizens of the USA, then the rest can fall into place.




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    War sickness has hit the states and debt cancer has hit the states

    $16,459,354,45 in debt and $1 million per soldier per day in wars that were not needed...

    War games with IRAN because they went to have a peaceful Nuke plant to provide for their people..

    . Lies on arresting people from other countries aka the russia people being held over bogus charges,

    the killing of millions of innocent people over a 11 year period in three wars.

    The total decay of the liberty of U.S.A citizens and the total collapse of the constitution...

    The art of destroying a country that was founded on equality, freedom. liberty,loyalty, constitution, bill of rights... Agreement that this would set forth a path for are kids kids and for a world of liberty and freedom..


    Where has it all gone...

    No on here can tell... Because no one knowns
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Economy, employment, financial subsidies and taxes given billions a year to companies, technology advancement, immigration, education.

    That talk about hurting or helping the middle class is party/candidate propaganda to get people to $#@!ing vote for them. Helping the low and middle class is an obvious need that isn't ever really addressed past the basics they implement. If those things I listed above were addressed properly, for the citizens of the USA, then the rest can fall into place.
    ok, now do you know each candidate's position on each of those? Do you know who wants more and better teachers and who says we need less teachers, firefighters and police officers? Which one has a tax plan right now and which one says he will explain his plan after the election? Which one wants to do something about those billions of dollars in tax breaks to companies and which one is for it? Who was the governor of a state that was 47th out of 50 in job creation? Who hasn't been very clear on issues that affect the middle class?


    War sickness has hit the states and debt cancer has hit the states

    $16,459,354,45 in debt and $1 million per soldier per day in wars that were not needed...

    War games with IRAN because they went to have a peaceful Nuke plant to provide for their people..

    . Lies on arresting people from other countries aka the russia people being held over bogus charges,

    the killing of millions of innocent people over a 11 year period in three wars.

    The total decay of the liberty of U.S.A citizens and the total collapse of the constitution...

    The art of destroying a country that was founded on equality, freedom. liberty,loyalty, constitution, bill of rights... Agreement that this would set forth a path for are kids kids and for a world of liberty and freedom..


    Where has it all gone...

    No on here can tell... Because no one knowns
    Dude come off all that doom and gloom crap...lol Worry about your own country because they aren't so perfect either.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-13-2012 at 17:31.

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    ... do you know who has been in office for four or more years and none of what I said has been done yet?

    You, and millions and millions of others, are stuck on political speeches apparently.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Dude come off all that doom and gloom crap...lol Worry about your own country because they aren't so perfect either.
    Its not doom and gloom, its reality mate. And i do not worry about my country, because i live in Northern Ireland and i am use to it all going to $#@! here

    Bombs, knee caps, random acts of evilness, lies by are leaders, innocents that die over groups off evil armies that want and don't want a Northern Ireland from the English


    So my country has it easy compared to yours and yours is the worse at the moment
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    ... do you know who has been in office for four or more years and none of what I said has been done yet?

    You, and millions and millions of others, are stuck on political speeches apparently.
    You are avoiding my questions in the previous post? Where does each candidate stand on those issues you named? Our economy is still bad but better than it was 4 years ago. That is a fact. I do listen to some speeches when i get the chance but I also fact check on what is actually being done and what isn't. Lets be real here, we can complain all we want but our two party system is never going away. Unfortunately, politics will always be a big part of our country. You can't just listen to rhetoric and not know or check the facts. I love how people are so concerned about theses issues now but didn't give a crap years and years ago when it was happening right before our eyes. What do you suggest we do about those issues you mentioned and what actions has this administration done on each of these and what did the last do?


    Its not doom and gloom, its reality mate. And i do not worry about my country, because i live in Northern Ireland and i am use to it all going to $#@! here

    Bombs, knee caps, random acts of evilness, lies by are leaders, innocents that die over groups off evil armies that want and don't want a Northern Ireland from the English


    So my country has it easy compared to yours and yours is the worse at the moment
    So what. I still would rather live here than anyone else. Our country has always had issues. Name one that hasn't. If you are used to your country going to $#@! then ours really shouldn't bother you as much. $#@! is $#@! no matter how you try to say one smells worse than the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    You are avoiding my questions in the previous post? Where does each candidate stand on those issues you named? Our economy is still bad but better than it was 4 years ago. That is a fact. I do listen to some speeches when i get the chance but I also fact check on what is actually being done and what isn't. Lets be real here, we can complain all we want but our two party system is never going away. Unfortunately, politics will always be a big part of our country. You can't just listen to rhetoric and not know or check the facts. I love how people are so concerned about theses issues now but didn't give a crap years and years ago when it was happening right before our eyes. What do you suggest we do about those issues you mentioned and what actions has this administration done on each of these and what did the last do?




    So what. I still would rather live here than anyone else. Our country has always had issues. Name one that hasn't. If you are used to your country going to $#@! then ours really shouldn't bother you as much. $#@! is $#@! no matter how you try to say one smells worse than the other.
    I'm not avoiding questions. I'm rid of the "stands" status that they advertise. See, you're already engulfed into the system of "we did this", or "this is better".... when you say or economy is better than it was four years ago, you don't see the big picture. You see what they want you to see. Fact checking doesn't encompass the entirety of the economy, or any other thing they like to promote in their campaign as "better", or a "stance". Can't listen to rhetoric? Then you'd have mostly nothing to contribute as to what is a fix. I love how people are concerned enough to post nearly the identical questions and answers given by the campaigns lol.

    The questions you are asking aren't relevant at ALL to what these administrations have, can, or won't do. If you're so interesting in research and facts, then you'd already know the abundant problems that they don't or won't fix, and how they could accomplish it. It sounds more like an argument trying to be had against an opponent. Look at the actual country status, and get rid of the campaign accomplishments. Obama, Romney, Clinton, Bush, all brought continuous problems and accomplished enough to cover up the other things. That's what half a campaign is about. Look at all the things they attack each other with. This one doesn't do this, that one won't do this. So on...

    It isn't about which is better than the other. What matters is who is best for this country. Neither of them.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post

    So what. I still would rather live here than anyone else. Our country has always had issues. Name one that hasn't. If you are used to your country going to $#@! then ours really shouldn't bother you as much. $#@! is $#@! no matter how you try to say one smells worse than the other.
    Dude look I am not having a go but you are blind to the country you live in

    I might be on the outside looking in. But I have learned a lot from the u.s.a more then I guess you, because you see you're country from a side that makes you question others for speaking what is really wrong and how they know how to fix it

    You believe in fairys and little pink truths... where we all believe in what's actually wrong and the real dangerous path the states is going in

    You have a mindset to believe in what you're leader and others feed you and its complete bull$#@!. Look we can go back and forth on who is right and who is wrong.

    But you have to understand that either way, you have to live in a country were you're freedom of everyrhing and liberty is slowly if not already been taking away from you

    Mate focus on what you have and that is you're family and friends and remeber they are you're greatest richies and the country you were born into is slowly disappearing
    Last edited by claud3; 10-13-2012 at 20:24.
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I'm not avoiding questions. I'm rid of the "stands" status that they advertise. See, you're already engulfed into the system of "we did this", or "this is better".... when you say or economy is better than it was four years ago, you don't see the big picture. You see what they want you to see. Fact checking doesn't encompass the entirety of the economy, or any other thing they like to promote in their campaign as "better", or a "stance". Can't listen to rhetoric? Then you'd have mostly nothing to contribute as to what is a fix. I love how people are concerned enough to post nearly the identical questions and answers given by the campaigns lol.

    The questions you are asking aren't relevant at ALL to what these administrations have, can, or won't do. If you're so interesting in research and facts, then you'd already know the abundant problems that they don't or won't fix, and how they could accomplish it. It sounds more like an argument trying to be had against an opponent. Look at the actual country status, and get rid of the campaign accomplishments. Obama, Romney, Clinton, Bush, all brought continuous problems and accomplished enough to cover up the other things. That's what half a campaign is about. Look at all the things they attack each other with. This one doesn't do this, that one won't do this. So on...

    It isn't about which is better than the other. What matters is who is best for this country. Neither of them.
    I actually agree with you on some points. i'm asking you what you think Obama did to hurt or help the country. You named a few areas but you didn't explain why you agree or disagree with each candidates stance on those issues. Why don't you like either candidate? What about immigration, technology, employment, etc.....What do you you mean I see what they want me to see? What should I be looking for? Tell me the problems that you think those people you mentioned brought upon us. Why do you think both are bad for the country and who do you think can fix it? You are saying everything is bad but you don't go into any sort of detail about anything. You are basically talking politics and party. Like i said before, the two party system is not going anywhere no matter how much we say we need to get rid of it. How do you suppose we fix immigration? Was the auto bailout the right thing to do? I'm tying to figure out where you stand on what you mentioned. I already got you don't like any candidate. Why do you think Romney will be no different other than the fact that he is a politician? What do you agree or disagree with him on? Same with Obama.

    I will remind you that I don't belong to any party. As independent voters we have to take both candidates and look at the issues and what they stand for.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-13-2012 at 20:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I actually agree with you on some points. i'm asking you what you think Obama did to hurt or help the country. You named a few areas but you didn't explain why you agree or disagree with each candidates stance on those issues. Why don't you like either candidate? What about immigration, technology, employment, etc.....What do you you mean I see what they want me to see? What should I be looking for? Tell me the problems that you think those people you mentioned brought upon us. Why do you think both are bad for the country and who do you think can fix it? You are saying everything is bad but you don't go into any sort of detail about anything. You are basically talking politics and party. Like i said before, the two party system is not going anywhere no matter how much we say we need to get rid of it. How do you suppose we fix immigration? Was the auto bailout the right thing to do? I'm tying to figure out where you stand on what you mentioned. I already got you don't like any candidate. Why do you think Romney will be no different other than the fact that he is a politician?
    It'd be extremely boring to list all the things that have to be fixed. Really. It isn't a hard thing to figure out to be honest. If you can watch the speeches these guys give, and see what they don't do, then it's a no-brainer.

    Get rid of allowing the immigration to go where it's going right now. Stop giving NON-CITIZENS handouts while the people that are citizens of this country can barely, if at all, get any help because they are citizens.

    Pour money and benefits into education, teachers....

    Technology... it's a long road there my friend. That would include the economy, subsidies, and taxes... this nation is ran by corporations that lobby and promote campaigning by getting millions and millions of dollars from the government, while they don't build an infrastructure that promotes competition, employment, and furthering technological benefits. That goes to the government and the agencies that are put into place by them.

    Was the auto bailout the right thing to do? No. It wasn't. Let them go under and build back up with work, competition, and consumer responses. Nah, let's just fork over billions of dollars to show them that they can do whatever they want, and we'll bail 'em on out.

    Explaining why I agree or disagree is pointless because they are ALL on a campaign trail. That is all. They don't give two $#@!s about what they say.... politics and parties are the reason this country continues to fall further and further. I'm sure the deficit going that much further in four years is good because of the few things that "helped" the country. ffs, puhlease.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    It'd be extremely boring to list all the things that have to be fixed. Really. It isn't a hard thing to figure out to be honest. If you can watch the speeches these guys give, and see what they don't do, then it's a no-brainer.
    You don't really have to watch speeches. There are other ways to figure out what is happening. I don't see many speeches because i don't watch a lot of T.V.

    Get rid of allowing the immigration to go where it's going right now. Stop giving NON-CITIZENS handouts while the people that are citizens of this country can barely, if at all, get any help because they are citizens.
    Then what do you suppose we do for immigration? You can't just deport millions of people at once. Some who only know this country as home and don't even speak the language of the country they will be deported too. What would you do for the one's who are serving this country's military. What about the one's who have died serving? Would you deport their families?

    Pour money and benefits into education, teachers..
    ..
    That's exactly what the current administration is doing. Our withdrawal from the middle east allows us to invest more into those areas. The current administration wants to hire more teachers and put more towards education, as well as increased benefits for veterans.

    Technology... it's a long road there my friend. That would include the economy, subsidies, and taxes... this nation is ran by corporations that lobby and promote campaigning by getting millions and millions of dollars from the government, while they don't build an infrastructure that promotes competition, employment, and furthering technological benefits. That goes to the government and the agencies that are put into place by them.
    I agree. That's why we are saving money now that we were spending in Iraq to go towards technology, infrastructure, and other areas. As far as corporations and lobbying, you can throw some of the blame on the supreme court for allowing them to spend freely to support or appose candidates for president and congress. All that special interest money is a win for the banks of wall street, oil companies, and other special interest to silence the voices of the people.

    Was the auto bailout the right thing to do? No. It wasn't. Let them go under and build back up with work, competition, and consumer responses. Nah, let's just fork over billions of dollars to show them that they can do whatever they want, and we'll bail 'em on out.
    So you are saying that we should bail out big banks but not help the middle class? Tell me the negatives that came out of the bailout. It saved more than a million jobs, saved families from going homeless, and it really helped the economy. And to top it off, the loans have been paid back in full and GM is profiting again, plus the industry is seeing even more positive growth before all of this happened. Letting them go under and build back up would of crippled an already struggling economy. The bailout was the right thing to do.

    Explaining why I agree or disagree is pointless because they are ALL on a campaign trail. That is all. They don't give two $#@!s about what they say.... politics and parties are the reason this country continues to fall further and further. I'm sure the deficit going that much further in four years is good because of the few things that "helped" the country. ffs, puhlease.
    Which is why I don't belong to any party, but our politics have always played a role in our country on every level. We do have some crappy politicians but I don't believe every single one should be put into that category. That would be like judging all cops, firefighters, soldiers, teachers, etc. on the actions of a few. Do you actually think that any president we have had doesn't care about the country?

    Dude look I am not having a go but you are blind to the country you live in

    I might be on the outside looking in. But I have learned a lot from the u.s.a more then I guess you, because you see you're country from a side that makes you question others for speaking what is really wrong and how they know how to fix it

    You believe in fairys and little pink truths... where we all believe in what's actually wrong and the real dangerous path the states is going in

    You have a mindset to believe in what you're leader and others feed you and its complete bull$#@!. Look we can go back and forth on who is right and who is wrong.

    But you have to understand that either way, you have to live in a country were you're freedom of everyrhing and liberty is slowly if not already been taking away from you

    Mate focus on what you have and that is you're family and friends and remeber they are you're greatest richies and the country you were born into is slowl
    My freedoms haven't been taken away so i don't know what you're talking about. I still have the same if not even more freedom that i have since the day i was born. You can think what you want but don't expect everyone to have that "sky is falling mentality" about this country. Its not all great but not as bad as you make it out to be. I believe in the things i can see for myself, and what I see is a country who is going through some tough times but we will overcome it. We have before and we will again. We may always have complaints against things like government and politics, but that shouldn't be confused with not being proud to be American.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-13-2012 at 22:24.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    You don't really have to watch speeches. There are other ways to figure out what is happening. I don't see many speeches because i don't watch a lot of T.V.

    then you read too many articles. You're replies have almost been word for word how the media spin this crap

    Then what do you suppose we do for immigration? You can't just deport millions of people at once. Some who only know this country as home and don't even speak the language of the country they will be deported too. What would you do for the one's who are serving this country's military. What about the one's who have died serving? Would you deport their families?

    deport illegal aliens. Period..

    That's exactly what the current administration is doing. Our withdrawal from the middle east allows us to invest more into those areas. The current administration wants to hire more teachers and put more towards education, as well as increased benefits for veterans.

    that's bs to say the least. More media and campaign spin. It's like copy/paste from the campaign boards lol. Yeah, billions of dollars have gone to clean energy companies, most have closed down.... Yet where is the investing in education? Please...

    I agree. That's why we are saving money now that we were spending in Iraq to go towards technology, infrastructure, and other areas. As far as corporations and lobbying, you can throw some of the blame on the supreme court for allowing them to spend freely to support or appose candidates for president and congress. All that special interest money is a win for the banks of wall street, oil companies, and other special interest to silence the voices of the people.

    more "we are" lol. Really. Over the past four years companies like Verizon, AT&T, and many others have been given hundreds of millions to build out rural services and increase technology to catch up with other countries. Well, they are not doing it. Lets get better competition in more markets along with increased tech advances so we can compete with other countries in prices and services, while providing new infrastructure for benefits in many areas for the Country.

    So you are saying that we should bail out big banks but not help the middle class? Tell me the negatives that came out of the bailout. It saved more than a million jobs, saved families from going homeless, and it really helped the economy. And to top it off, the loans have been paid back in full and they GM is profiting again, plus the industry is seeing even more positive growth before all of this happened. Letting them go under and build back up would of crippled an already struggling economy. The bailout was the right thing to do.

    I didn't say $#@! about banks. Do some better research on the negative effects of the Feds giving all that money to auto ind. after they had already been giving the billions. Jesus.

    Which is why I don't belong to any party, but our politics have always played a role in our country on every level. We do have some crappy politicians but I don't believe every single one should be put into that category. That would be like judging all cops, firefighters, soldiers, teachers, etc. on the actions of a few. Do you actually think that any president we have had doesn't care about the country?

    i didn't say they don't care.. I said they don't do.... It's not like generalizing other professions as a whole. This is something that for decades have buried the country into further and further debts, regardless of the few things each term uses to promote their own campaigns.
    Bold text.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    It'd be extremely boring to list all the things that have to be fixed. Really. It isn't a hard thing to figure out to be honest. If you can watch the speeches these guys give, and see what they don't do, then it's a no-brainer. Get rid of allowing the immigration to go where it's going right now. Stop giving NON-CITIZENS handouts while the people that are citizens of this country can barely, if at all, get any help because they are citizens. Pour money and benefits into education, teachers.... Technology... it's a long road there my friend. That would include the economy, subsidies, and taxes... this nation is ran by corporations that lobby and promote campaigning by getting millions and millions of dollars from the government, while they don't build an infrastructure that promotes competition, employment, and furthering technological benefits. That goes to the government and the agencies that are put into place by them. Was the auto bailout the right thing to do? No. It wasn't. Let them go under and build back up with work, competition, and consumer responses. Nah, let's just fork over billions of dollars to show them that they can do whatever they want, and we'll bail 'em on out. Explaining why I agree or disagree is pointless because they are ALL on a campaign trail. That is all. They don't give two $#@!s about what they say.... politics and parties are the reason this country continues to fall further and further. I'm sure the deficit going that much further in four years is good because of the few things that "helped" the country. ffs, puhlease.
    This. You really nailed it with this post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    then you read too many articles. You're replies have almost been word for word how the media spin this crap

    media spin? I don't watch too much media. They seemed to come off as too biased. My replies are basically common sense and they are factual.

    deport illegal aliens. Period..

    I got that part from before. How would you do it though? Its easier said than done. How would you just move millions of people out of the country?

    that's bs to say the least. More media and campaign spin. It's like copy/paste from the campaign boards lol. Yeah, billions of dollars have gone to clean energy companies, most have closed down.... Yet where is the investing in education? Please...


    its not BS. Its still in progress but it has been addresssed.

    Obama Makes Education a State of Union Centerpiece

    http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campa..._coverage.html

    President Barack Obama used his State of the Union address Tuesday night to put education front-and-center on the national agenda, and on the agenda of the newly divided Congress. And he tied his education proposals, including the long-stalled reauthorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, directly to the nation's economic future.
    Obama also announced an initiative to train 100,000 new teachers in mathematics, science, technology, and engineering, or STEM subjects. He plans to expand "promising and effective teacher preparation models" for STEM teachers.


    more "we are" lol. Really. Over the past four years companies like Verizon, AT&T, and many others have been given hundreds of millions to build out rural services and increase technology to catch up with other countries. Well, they are not doing it. Lets get better competition in more markets along with increased tech advances so we can compete with other countries in prices and services, while providing new infrastructure for benefits in many areas for the Country.

    Actually its been going on for more than four years. But who are you blaming for that one? I think the blame should go to a lot of people. Like I said before blame congress and the supreme court for things like that.

    I didn't say $#@! about banks. Do some better research on the negative effects of the Feds giving all that money to auto ind. after they had already been giving the billions. Jesus.


    What are those effects? What are the positives versus the negatives concerning the middle class on this? How did the bailout hurt when all the money has been paid bac?. Who benefited the most form it?

    i didn't say they don't care.. I said they don't do.... It's not like generalizing other professions as a whole. This is something that for decades have buried the country into further and further debts, regardless of the few things each term uses to promote their own campaigns.

    I never said you said they don't care. I was asking a question? If we elect politicians to do the job, and they don't, what would you suggest we do? It can be done, we just need the right politicians in place to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    [/I][/B]
    media spin? I don't watch too much media. They seemed to come off as too biased. My replies are basically common sense and they are factual.


    I got that part from before. How would you do it though? Its easier said than done. How would you just move millions of people out of the country?

    Well, you don't just let it stand there and continue to give them money for being here. How would I do it? I use whatever means possible to protect our country... if that means deported illegal immigrants/aliens instead of funding their lives with federal funds instead of helping our own people, that's what the hell i'd do.

    its not BS. Its still in progress but it has been addresssed.

    Obama Makes Education a State of Union Centerpiece

    http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campa..._coverage.html

    Please don't use the State of the Union Address lol. Use what he hasn't done. Saying it to people doesn't make a change in what you didn't do ffs.

    Actually its been going on for more than four years. But who are you blaming for that one? I think the blame should go to a lot of people. Like I said before blame congress and the supreme court for things like that.

    I'm blaming our administration over the past three terms to say the least. It's probably more accurate to go back 5+ terms, OR MORE.

    What are those effects? What are the positives versus the negatives concerning the middle class on this? How did the bailout hurt when all the money has been paid bac?. Who benefited the most form it?

    What part of if don't you understand and want me to answer? You don't see how spending billions of dollars to bail out all these companies, while the unemployment continues to increase... but say it created millions of jobs? Yeah.


    I never said you said they don't care. I was asking a question? If we elect politicians to do the job, and they don't, what would you suggest we do? It can be done, we just need the right politicians in place to do it.

    Elect someone that will do it. That's an easy answer. Kill this one repub and one demo that gets all the time and money to run campaigns, smearing each other, etc. Get rid of that completely. Money gets people elected these days. You have plenty of people that can probably do a good job but can't even put up a fight because of the two people run for president format.
    Bold text.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Bold text.
    Well, you don't just let it stand there and continue to give them money for being here. How would I do it? I use whatever means possible to protect our country... if that means deported illegal immigrants/aliens instead of funding their lives with federal funds instead of helping our own people, that's what the hell i'd do.

    What do you mean by our own people? You are saying that you would take millions of people regardless if they have been abiding by laws and paying taxes and just deport them. You would take members of the military who risk there lives for this country and just deport them without giving them a path to citizenship?

    Please don't use the State of the Union Address lol. Use what he hasn't done. Saying it to people doesn't make a change in what you didn't do ffs

    I was basically showing you that better education is a concern for the country. You asked about education so i posted what was in the works. It's not totally fixed but it is being addressed. it will take some time just like any other issue.

    What part of if don't you understand and want me to answer? You don't see how spending billions of dollars to bail out all these companies, while the unemployment continues to increase... but say it created millions of jobs? Yeah.


    You can't deny that the bailout saved jobs. Where are we now with the industry? You tell me the negative effects. How did the auto bailout hurt when the unemployment rate would of been even higher? Saving those jobs meant people got to spend money out in the economy which is a good thing. All three (GM, Chrysler and Ford ) seem to be operating at profit again. Even Ford, who didn't take any money, benefited from the bailout.


    Elect someone that will do it. That's an easy answer. Kill this one repub and one demo that gets all the time and money to run campaigns, smearing each other, etc. Get rid of that completely. Money gets people elected these days. You have plenty of people that can probably do a good job but can't even put up a fight because of the two people run for president format.


    Easier said than done. Even if that official doesn't belong to a party, do you really think that will change anything? Unfortunately, in this country it takes money to run for any particular office. That's why it's so important to vote. You can use money however you want but a vote is more powerful. If more people vote on the issues instead of by party we would be much better off. The two party system is here to stay so voting is the only way to make any real changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    [/I][/B]
    What do you mean by our own people? You are saying that you would take millions of people regardless if they have been abiding by laws and paying taxes and just deport them. You would take members of the military who risk there lives for this country and just deport them without giving them a path to citizenship?

    There's been a path to citizen ship for a century. Either become a citizen, or get the $#@! out. If you wanna stay, become a citizen and earn your free $#@! that you're getting while more and more citizens can't get assistance from the government.

    I was basically showing you that better education is a concern for the country. You asked about education so i posted what was in the works. It's not totally fixed but it is being addressed. it will take some time just like any other issue.

    Don't show speeches lol. Rule #1. There are too many things that this administration, and prior ones, have spent countless money on, instead of doing what they've said in speeches.

    You can't deny that the bailout saved jobs. Where are we now with the industry? You tell me the negative effects. How did the auto bailout hurt when the unemployment rate would of been even higher? Saving those jobs meant people got to spend money out in the economy which is a good thing. All three (GM, Chrysler and Ford ) seem to be operating at profit again. Even Ford, who didn't take any money, benefited from the bailout.

    I never denied that it created or saved jobs... if you feel that using all that money to create new jobs for people instead of spending it on companies that were already getting billions of US dollars, then I don't know where else to go with this.

    Easier said than done. Even if that official doesn't belong to a party, do you really think that will change anything? Unfortunately, in this country it takes money to run for any particular office. That's why it's so important to vote. You can use money however you want but a vote is more powerful. If more people vote on the issues instead of by party we would be much better off. The two party system is here to stay so voting is the only way to make any real changes.

    Votes aren't more powerful. The exclusion of candidates that aren't getting millions upon millions of contributions just gives less and less options for people to know about where others stand, records, etc.
    more bold.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    more bold.
    There's been a path to citizen ship for a century. Either become a citizen, or get the $#@! out. If you wanna stay, become a citizen and earn your free $#@! that you're getting while more and more citizens can't get assistance from the government.
    That's what I mean. You just can't deport millions of people without first giving them the opportunity to become citizens. You can't have it both ways. First you say just deport everyone then you say become a citizen and you earn your free $#@! like all of them are just here freeloading when that's not the case. You must let them go through the system first before you can just round people up like cattle and rush them across the borders. Not only is it impossible, the economy would most likely suffer.

    Don't show speeches lol. Rule #1. There are too many things that this administration, and prior ones, have spent countless money on, instead of doing what they've said in speeches.
    its not about the speech itself, its about the issue and acknowledging something needs to be done. Like I said before it will take some time but I believe we will make some progress towards better education across the board. these issues didn't just pop up over night and they sure won't be solved that way. look how long it took us to tackle health care, but now its been done. It took a while and a big political fight, but it got done.


    I never denied that it created or saved jobs... if you feel that using all that money to create new jobs for people instead of spending it on companies that were already getting billions of US dollars, then I don't know where else to go with this.
    That whole thing was about saving middles class jobs and much more. Letting the industry go under would of probably sent us into a even deeper recession. Not to mention, health care and pensions of millions would of been lost. What about the technology that the industry is a major source of? There is a reason that the auto industry is called the engine of growth for our economy. The pros of the bailout far outweigh the cons.

    Votes aren't more powerful. The exclusion of candidates that aren't getting millions upon millions of contributions just gives less and less options for people to know about where others stand, records, etc.
    Votes are more powerful. Realistically speaking, we live in a country where we will always have candidates so all this talk of excluding them is never gonna happen. So we are left with our right to vote for who we think will do the better job. Even if we excluded candidates that aren't getting millions, we still would have to vote for someone at some level. Voting shows that issues matter and it definitely can help change the country, whether its good or bad. It's the most powerful instrument we have. Its a hard earned privilege that we should never take for granted.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-14-2012 at 02:44.

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    I'll agree with you on one issues here that their needs to be a clearer path to citizenship into this country. If the visa was easier to obtain and the path citizenship was clearer we would have significantly less problems on this issue. For your other points I'll pull a Joe bieden and call it malarky. It's a fallacy to state GM would have been destroyed if not for thebailout. Obama likes to insinuate that but the fact is sans bailout GM would have filed chapter 13, restructured and ultimatly come back on top. When it got the money it did the restructuring not the govt so it was obviously capable of doing so. Lastly speeches are literally nothing but talk. You tout he put education on the forefront of his state of the union but what has come of that? He hasn't advocated or guided any new policy since then. But I guess talking about education over and over means he is the education president.

    Somebody get me a doctor, I ain't feelin' ill ...But I ain't feelin' this at all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by btbam View Post
    I'll agree with you on one issues here that their needs to be a clearer path to citizenship into this country. If the visa was easier to obtain and the path citizenship was clearer we would have significantly less problems on this issue. For your other points I'll pull a Joe bieden and call it malarky. It's a fallacy to state GM would have been destroyed if not for thebailout. Obama likes to insinuate that but the fact is sans bailout GM would have filed chapter 13, restructured and ultimatly come back on top. When it got the money it did the restructuring not the govt so it was obviously capable of doing so. Lastly speeches are literally nothing but talk. You tout he put education on the forefront of his state of the union but what has come of that? He hasn't advocated or guided any new policy since then. But I guess talking about education over and over means he is the education president.
    Then even more people would try to get in.

    We want the best and the brightest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Then even more people would try to get in.

    We want the best and the brightest.
    That's not happening now.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    That's not happening now.
    I'm aware.

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    make sure to turn into the debate tomorrow. considering how tight the race is right now this debate could lock the winner in with the right momentum

    Somebody get me a doctor, I ain't feelin' ill ...But I ain't feelin' this at all...

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    If Obama would of debated that good last week this race would be over. He really redeemed himself tonight. He pretty much won on every issue except maybe energy. Romney had to be embarrassed when he got corrected on Libya by the moderator.

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    Romney won tonight and he's going to win this election in a land slide.

    It's time for change and Mitt will bring it.


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