General Politics Thread

[weskurtz81]

Of course the job could be done better but he isnt getting a lot of help from the other side.

He didn't need ANY help from the other side for 2 years. But, if it's something that they don't think is good for the country, isn't it their job to oppose it in accordance with their constituents?

Oh but it does....people were so sick of Bush and Cheney. It was obvious.

I disagree here. You don't want to be compared to those that were worse, you want to be compared to the greats.... he isn't being compared to ANY greats, I keep hearing "at least he isn't as bad as (insert name)".

You are wrong bout that. His aprroval ratings among the Military were always better than Bush. Every since bush decided to go to iraq the Military has disapproved but we are in no position to question our chain of command. We do talk among ourselves. Trust me when i say the military didn't see eye to eye with him, Cheney or Rumsfeld. When Bush's term was over we here in the military were very happy about that. Thats from the lowest to some of the highest ranking members but you didn't hear this from me....lol

I was in the military, I spent time over seas too, but that's not what I am basing my opinion on (that would be anecdotal at best). I am actually making that statement based on polls that have been conducted on 10's of thousands of military members, and according to the polls, the approval ratings are roughly the same.

Obama did some good things for us in his short time in the Senate. Its just that many haven't really heard about it but we know who really looks out for us and who is just all talk.

What good exactly?

It does matter and i believe he will get re-elected again. If Bush served for 8 then i don't see why he shouldn't either.

Here we are, back to comparing him to Bush. Like I said before, I don't think Obama wants Bush to be the basis for comparison.

How do you know this for sure or is this what they say on FOX.

Glad to see you managed to throw that one in there! Unfortunately, for you, I don't want Fox.

If you do some research on Ron Paul, which clearly you haven't, you would see he has been saying the same damn thing for 20+ years. He hasn't changed his principles, he speaks out against both Republicans and Democrats.... with him you know what you are getting and it has nothing to do with Fox News.

[DayWalker]

His approval rating is tracking right along side (actually above) Ronald Reagen who inherited a bad economy himself (not as bad)....there you go wes.

Y'all should watch the HBO movie "Too Big to Fail"

pretty interesting... and well performed.

[Sub-stance1]

He didn't need ANY help from the other side for 2 years. But, if it's something that they don't think is good for the country, isn't it their job to oppose it in accordance with their constituents?

Iraq clearly wasn't good for the country and they didn't oppose that. Its like this anything Obama says they will say the opposite. They even have the nerve to say he is unamerican. Bill clinton got a b**w job and they tried to impeach him but he was never once called unamerican.

I disagree here. You don't want to be compared to those that were worse, you want to be compared to the greats.... he isn't being compared to ANY greats, I keep hearing "at least he isn't as bad as (insert name)".

That's just the way it is. You always compare to the last administration...The truth is he isn't as bad as Bush.


I

was in the military, I spent time over seas too, but that's not what I am basing my opinion on (that would be anecdotal at best). I am actually making that statement based on polls that have been conducted on 10's of thousands of military members, and according to the polls, the approval ratings are roughly the same.

oh really were you really in the military? Have you been assigned to any spec ops units? Do you really know the reason why bin Laden got away the first time? I do. It was because of mistakes made by the Bush trusting pakistan to secure the border. He also made some other big mistakes that we spec ops units know about.I could go on and on about mistakes they made when it comes to Iraq and AFGHAN.

What good exactly?

He did plenty. Go do some research. For one he opposed the war in iraq and it turns out that he was right about that.

Here we are, back to comparing him to Bush. Like I said before, I don't think Obama wants Bush to be the basis for comparison.

Who else can we compare him with?

Glad to see you managed to throw that one in there! Unfortunately, for you, I don't want Fox.

Sure you do. Republicans candidates for the 2012 elections are weak. I mean come on they keep talking about sarah palin and Michelle bachman like the country is actually gonna elect one of them.

If you do some research on Ron Paul, which clearly you haven't, you would see he has been saying the same damn thing for 20+ years. He hasn't changed his principles, he speaks out against both Republicans and Democrats.... with him you know what you are getting and it has nothing to do with Fox News.

The highlighted portion just proves that you are just repeating what is said on TV. I mean, you are only 30 years old so how would you even know that for sure.
I do know who he is. I happen to live in Texas. He wont be able to beat obama in an election. Like i said before you are just repeating thing said on Fox news.



Obama most likely will get reelected. I mean all you have to do is look at who he is running against. the only thing they can really use against him is the economy which wont be enough for them to beat him.

[weskurtz81]

His approval rating is tracking right along side (actually above) Ronald Reagen who inherited a bad economy himself (not as bad)....there you go wes.

I wasn't actually referring to his overall approval ratings, simply refuting the statement about military approval ratings that Sub-stance was claiming, because he is wrong according to polls.

Y'all should watch the HBO movie "Too Big to Fail"

pretty interesting... and well performed.

I actually just watched that the other day, very interesting. +1 on the recommendation for everyone that to watch it that cares to.

Iraq clearly wasn't good for the country and they didn't oppose that. Its like this anything Obama says they will say the opposite. They even have the nerve to say he is unamerican. Bill clinton got a b**w job and they tried to impeach him but he was never once called unamerican.

A ton of Democrats voted for it as well. When you say "they" say he is unamerican, who are you speaking of EXACTLY? Not that I agree with calling BO unamerican, but I wouldn't call getting a BJ unamerican!

That's just the way it is. You always compare to the last administration...The truth is he isn't as bad as Bush.

So, in your opinion, the bar is pretty low, and Obama is SOMEWHERE above that bar. Roger that!

Ioh really were you really in the military?

Oh, really, I was! Just finished my last year of IR!

Have you been assigned to any spec ops units?

So, it shifts from credibility being gained from military service to you had to have been "assigned" to a spec ops unit?

Like I mentioned above, I don't care if you served, it lends no credibility to your argument. My information is from statistics where 10's of thousand of past and present military members were polled, your opinion is based on anecdotal evidence AT BEST.

Do you really know the reason why bin Laden got away the first time? I do. It was because of mistakes made by the Bush trusting pakistan to secure the border. He also made some other big mistakes that we spec ops units know about.I could go on and on about mistakes they made when it comes to Iraq and AFGHAN.

And, of course, you can't tell anyone about it right?

He did plenty. Go do some research. For one he opposed the war in iraq and it turns out that he was right about that.

You are the one that made the statement, I assumed you might have known about something off the top of your head, I guess I was wrong?

How exactly did he oppose the war in Iraq?

Who else can we compare him with?

There are plenty of Presidents if you really want to compare. But, I am more about just grading the man on his actions rather than say "at least he isn't THAT bad". To me, it's like trying to make you feel better about a bad child by comparing him to a worse child, it's not logical.

I am pretty sure I already mentioned this, but I don't think EVERYTHING Obama stands for is wrong, I don't disagree with ALL of it, I don't hate the guy, I don't think he is an idiot (the exact opposite is true actually). I just don't agree with enough of what he stands for, and vehemently disagree with some of it, which is why I don't support him for re-election.

Sure you do.

Oh do I now?! Since you seem to know me better than.... well.... ME, tell me the last time I watched Fox News.

Republicans candidates for the 2012 elections are weak. I mean come on they keep talking about sarah palin and Michelle bachman like the country is actually gonna elect one of them.

Have I been talking about those two?

The highlighted portion just proves that you are just repeating what is said on TV. I mean, you are only 30 years old so how would you even know that for sure.

Pretty simple really, I can read. Go check out his voting record over his congressional career, go read public statements he has made over his career, pretty much the same guy for, well, all of it.

I do know who he is.

Whos fault is that?

I happen to live in Texas.

So?

He wont be able to beat obama in an election.

You are probably right about that. Doesn't mean he isn't a better choice though.

Like i said before you are just repeating thing said on Fox news.

If that's the case, and you seem pretty sure of it, show me the quotes that I am ripping off of Fox.

I am not sure how we can actually discuss something when I tell you that I don't watch Fox and you turn around and accuse me of lying. Hell, DW of all people MIGHT back me up on this, maybe. I don't post stories from Fox, I don't discuss articles from their website, I don't link to them, none of that. Sometimes I might post articles where it's possible Fox has discussed them, but I wasn't aware of it and didn't get my info from Fox.

It's pretty simple, I don't watch ANY major news network with any regularity, I read news sites like Bloomberg, Rolling Stone, WSJ, and a few others.... notice I didn't list Fox because I don't visit the site or watch the the show.

Obama most likely will get reelected. I mean all you have to do is look at who he is running against. the only thing they can really use against him is the economy which wont be enough for them to beat him.

Time will tell. Like I said, as long as he doesn't have the House and Senate as well, it won't be a big deal to me.

[Sub-stance1]

A ton of Democrats voted for it as well. When you say "they" say he is unamerican, who are you speaking of EXACTLY? Not that I agree with calling BO unamerican, but I wouldn't call getting a BJ unamerican!

You know exactly who im referring too.

So, in your opinion, the bar is pretty low, and Obama is SOMEWHERE above that bar. Roger that!

Its not that. Its just that people don't like hearing the truth about Bush. I didn't say the bar was low but its not really that hard to be more likeable than he was.

Oh, really, I was! Just finished my last year of IR!

good for you then.

So, it shifts from credibility being gained from military service to you had to have been "assigned" to a spec ops unit?

No, What was your job in the military? Were you even combat arms?

Like I mentioned above, I don't care if you served, it lends no credibility to your argument.

i think its more credible than yours.

My information is from statistics where 10's of thousand of past and present military members were polled, your opinion is based on anecdotal evidence AT BEST.

Total BS and you know it.

And, of course, you can't tell anyone about it right?

I just did and you can do research on how how his bad decisions cost us in Afgan. Not to mention he was the main one pushing for war with iraq which was based on lies. A total waste of time resources and precious lives.

There are plenty of Presidents if you really want to compare. But, I am more about just grading the man on his actions rather than say "at least he isn't THAT bad". To me, it's like trying to make you feel better about a bad child by comparing him to a worse child, it's not logical.

Really. What is so bad about his actions. What has he done that has been so bad in the little time he has been in the white house? or are you one of those people who cant stand to see a Democrat in charge. Are you bias because he isn't white and deep down you cant admit that it bothers you? Are you afraid that he will succeed where others that you prefer have failed?

, I don't disagree with ALL of it, I don't hate the guy, I don't think he is an idiot (the exact opposite is true actually). I just don't agree with enough of what he stands for, and vehemently disagree with some of it, which is why I don't support him for re-election.

did you support him the first time? if you didn't then that explains a lot.

Oh do I now?! Since you seem to know me better than.... well.... ME, tell me the last time I watched Fox News.

Oh come on now. You know you watch fox. Why deny it. Its not number one for nothing.

Have I been talking about those two?

No. Don't blame you for not claiming them lol. It just shows how desperate the conservatives are.

Pretty simple really, I can read. Go check out his voting record over his congressional career, go read public statements he has made over his career, pretty much the same guy for, well, all of it.

Just because you agree with his voting records and statements that means he will automatically come in and do a better job. Please.

You are probably right about that. Doesn't mean he isn't a better choice though.

yea because you dont agree with him right. Or is it you are just one of those secret tea party people who claim to love the country more than anyone else?

If that's the case, and you seem pretty sure of it, show me the quotes that I am ripping off of Fox.

Stop denying it. You know you do.

I am not sure how we can actually discuss something when I tell you that I don't watch Fox and you turn around and accuse me of lying. Hell, DW of all people MIGHT back me up on this, maybe. I don't post stories from Fox, I don't discuss articles from their website, I don't link to them, none of that. Sometimes I might post articles where it's possible Fox has discussed them, but I wasn't aware of it and didn't get my info from Fox.

Yea sure.

It's pretty simple, I don't watch ANY major news network with any regularity, I read news sites like Bloomberg, Rolling Stone, WSJ, and a few others.... notice I didn't list Fox because I don't visit the site or watch the the show.

I didn't expect you to name fox because that would prove my point. If you support conservatives/ republicans then there is a high possibility that you do get your news from them.

Time will tell. Like I said, as long as he doesn't have the House and Senate as well, it won't be a big deal to me.

really? I think it will be a big deal to you as long as he remains president. You seem to be one of those who just never liked him from the start. So I don't expect you to start now.

[weskurtz81]

You know exactly who im referring too.

Actually, no I don't. You made the statement, so, back it up.

Its not that. Its just that people don't like hearing the truth about Bush. I didn't say the bar was low but its not really that hard to be more likeable than he was.

If it's not hard to be more likable than Bush, then I would say that's a pretty low bar.

No, What was your job in the military? Were you even combat arms?

As I have already expressed, what either of us "did" in the military is irrelevant to this conversation and is nothing but a red herring.

i think its more credible than yours.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion man.

Total BS and you know it.

Not according the the Gallup poll released a few days ago, but they really don't have anything on your opinion.

I just did and you can do research on how how his bad decisions cost us in Afgan. Not to mention he was the main one pushing for war with iraq which was based on lies. A total waste of time resources and precious lives.

So, what you are telling me is, you can't tell me anything I don't already know or anything I can't read somewhere, I kind of figured that to be the case.

Really. What is so bad about his actions. What has he done that has been so bad in the little time he has been in the white house?

Clearly, you aren't paying attention, I touched on some of the issues I have with him already, IN THIS THREAD.

or are you one of those people who cant stand to see a Democrat in charge. Are you bias because he isn't white and deep down you cant admit that it bothers you? Are you afraid that he will succeed where others that you prefer have failed?

You know, generally speaking, when someone has NO argument to make, they start creating straw men or making ad hominem attacks, which exactly what you are doing here. I am not going to bother responding any further to this nonsense.

did you support him the first time? if you didn't then that explains a lot.

I was pretty mixed going into the election, but I did after the election. But, whether or not I supported him is irrelevant to this conversation. I am making valid points, how about you address them rather than ask me if I am racist or hate Democrats?

Oh come on now. You know you watch fox. Why deny it. Its not number one for nothing.

Whatever...

No. Don't blame you for not claiming them lol. It just shows how desperate the conservatives are.

So, I'm NOT desperate? Oh, that's right, like you were getting at above, I'm just racist and hate Democrats right?

Just because you agree with his voting records and statements that means he will automatically come in and do a better job. Please.

You are confused it seems. The responses on his voting record were because you said I couldn't know "who he is" because I am not old enough, you were unable to comprehend how it was possible to research his voting record and public statements/speeches he has made over the years to see the consistency.

Whether or not I think he will do a better job is a matter of my opinion, and was a separate discussion from the issue of voting record (which was used to establish consistency, not prove some theoretical Presidential performance).

yea because you dont agree with him right. Or is it you are just one of those secret tea party people who claim to love the country more than anyone else?

I just don't agree with a lot of his policies, I have already explained some of them in this thread if you care to read them.

really? I think it will be a big deal to you as long as he remains president. You seem to be one of those who just never liked him from the start. So I don't expect you to start now.

Yes, really.

[Sub-stance1]

Actually, no I don't. You made the statement, so, back it up.

You know who im talking about. Conservatives/ republicans.

If it's not hard to be more likable than Bush, then I would say that's a pretty low bar.

not his fault that the bar was low. Bush cant blame anyone but himself..

As I have already expressed, what either of us "did" in the military is irrelevant to this conversation and is nothing but a red herring.

Its totally relevant. Serving in spec ops is totally different than serving in a regular military unit.

Not according the the Gallup poll released a few days ago, but they really don't have anything on your opinion.

let me guess that a gallop poll released by fox right.

Clearly, you aren't paying attention, I touched on some of the issues I have with him already, IN THIS THREAD.

Then you should be able to at least give an example then.

You know, generally speaking, when someone has NO argument to make, they start creating straw men or making ad hominem attacks, which exactly what you are doing here. I am not going to bother responding any further to this nonsense.

I just asked if you supported him the first time. You just assume im saying you are racist
Its not nonsense. I was asking you questions. Seems to me that you just are avoiding them.

I was pretty mixed going into the election, but I did after the election. But, whether or not I supported him is irrelevant to this conversation. I am making valid points, how about you address them rather than ask me if I am racist or hate Democrats?

What points? im still waiting on them.

So, I'm NOT desperate? Oh, that's right, like you were getting at above, I'm just racist and hate Democrats right?

I never called you a racist. But it is clear that you didn't support him in 2008.... soits safe to say that people that dint support him will never be satisfied until he leaves the white house.

I just don't agree with a lot of his policies, I have already explained some of them in this thread if you care to read them.

So what. It would be a miracle if everyone agreed on every decision made by politicians.

[Yes, really.

yep really..... IMO you probably never liked Obama and you are using policies as an excuse.

[weskurtz81]

You know who im talking about. Conservatives/ republicans.

Are you speaking about just random people or actual politicians?

not his fault that the bar was low. Bush cant blame anyone but himself..

So, you agree, it's a low bar, not hard to be above it?

Its totally relevant. Serving in spec ops is totally different than serving in a regular military unit.

Of course it's totally different, but it's NOT RELEVANT TO THIS CONVERSATION. You were making a claim about military approval ratings, the military is MUCH larger than just a Spec Ops unit. I wasn't bothering to even bring up military service because it's NOT RELEVANT, what my opinion is about the attitude of the people I served with is just that, an OPINION. When Gallup releases a poll where they interviewed some 230+K active and retired military, I think that's maybe just a LITTLE more relevant than the 1000's I met throughout my stint in the service.

let me guess that a gallop poll released by fox right.

How about, released by Gallup?

Then you should be able to at least give an example then.

I already have, read the thread.

I just asked if you supported him the first time. You just assume im saying you are racist
Its not nonsense. I was asking you questions. Seems to me that you just are avoiding them.

Yeah, it is nonsense, you were alluding to racism and blind hatred of Democrats because you have NO rebuttal.

And, I didn't avoid them, I said they were nonsense and the tactic people use when they don't have a valid argument, kind of a last ditch effort.

What points? im still waiting on them.

I told you, go read some of the other responses in this thread.

I never called you a racist. But it is clear that you didn't support him in 2008.... soits safe to say that people that dint support him will never be satisfied until he leaves the white house.

The reasons I had reservations about him to begin with he made a reality, hence my current lack of support.

And, your assertion that people that supported him then will always support him, or people that didn't never will, is another example of nonsense. If that were the case then every President would serve two terms, there would be no reason to have polls, everyone would always feel the same way about everything. Come on man, use your head a little.

So what. It would be a miracle if everyone agreed on every decision made by politicians.

That's an understatement.

yep really..... IMO you probably never liked Obama and you are using policies as an excuse.

LOL, so, you are saying, it's not possible to dislike his policies? I either just don't like him because he's a Democrat or because he's black, but NO WAY could it be that I don't care for some of his policies?

If you want to see some of my complaints, and it's only SOME of them, look up the page/thread to an exchange I had with mikeghtmare.

[Bigdoggy]

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion man." - Weskurtz81




**cleans a little bit of soda shhhppoooshh***

[weskurtz81]

Damn! I messed it up a little!

[Seahawkk]

Damn! I needed it up a little!

I didn't have a thing for anyone in the 2008 election. Even though i feel Obama did a better job than McCain could have

[weskurtz81]

I didn't have a thing for anyone in the 2008 election. Even though i feel Obama did a better job than McCain could have

Yeah, who knows, you could be right.

[Seahawkk]

Yeah, who knows, you could be right.

and i could be wrong . I just know for a fact Palin would be the worst president

[weskurtz81]

and i could be wrong . I just know for a fact Palin would be the worst president

Honestly, just as long as no president has both the Senate and the House, i don't care that much!

[The Black Wolf]

I'm having a change of mind about Obama.

He has done good things. Cash for Clunkers, GM and car company bailouts, passed health care reform, and etc. However, he could have done more.

We need education reform. We need energy reform. We need a lot of things. I'm not sure if Obama can get us to where we need to be. It's been 3 years and I'm not comfortable to where we are as a nation.

[Vulgotha]

I don't get the question about Spec Ops. How does that even relate to Wes' argument?

And the biggest issue with our deployment in Afghanistan\Iraq is that we're fighting insurgency using conventional large, expensive, standing army tactics. That and every time collateral damage is caused the local citizenry get upset and aid\support (sometimes join) the local groups which oppose us.

You don't counter insurgency by throwing tons of material and manpower at it.. That's typically the "American way" to win wars. The communists employed the human wave, we use sheer resources and technology.

Our counter insurgency tactics (COIN) have completely failed. We're waging last generation warfare.. Sure, we're killing lots of them but its still highly proportionately worse for us (sheer logistics and cost of this war) than it is for them.

Anyways, you're not going to get "street cred" or something in this thread for being in "Spec Ops". What were you in? Delta? Green Beret? SEALS? No offense, but if you're a ranger I'd hardly qualify that as "SpecOps". To me, that's just playing fast and loose with the term.


The bigger issue here about the war is all the political games we're playing with it. Not unlike Nam' (which is why we "lost" through our limited war policy). Clausewitz once famously said we must "know ourselves" and "know our enemies" in order to achieve victory (which was to be planned and understood before hand).

We really don't understand the enemy and are either unwilling or are unable to properly adapt our combat techniques to match. Worse, we're busy getting mixed signals and song\dance from Washington over the issue. It's all about PR and votes. I'm not saying Clausewitz is 100% applicable for modern war, but we could damn sure learn a lesson or two from him and Machiavelli. Throw in some present day John Rob and we have ourselves a party.

Not this mess.

We shouldn't have ever gone to Iraq, I'll grant everyone that.. But we're fighting this war the wrong way. At home and abroad. As for Obama specifically, all I see is an idealogue who blew his political capital on bailouts and obamacare. Both of which are basically blowing up in his face.

He did do what those of us who opposed him were afraid he would. So I don't like him either.

[The Black Wolf]

As for Obama specifically, all I see is an idealogue who blew his political capital on bailouts and obamacare. Both of which are basically blowing up in his face.

He did do what those of us who opposed him were afraid he would. So I don't like him either.

Can you elaborate about how the bailouts and obamacare are blowing up in his face?

The GOP is having a debate on CNN as I type this.

[weskurtz81]

Wow, a bunch of posts have been deleted off of this page.

[.RAID3N.]

Can you elaborate about how the bailouts and obamacare are blowing up in his face?

The GOP is having a debate on CNN as I type this.

Watching the debate as well. These things are so annoying. They're pretty terrible listeners...

[DayWalker]

Wow, a bunch of posts have been deleted off of this page.

see the PSU attacked thread

Watching the debate as well. These things are so annoying. They're pretty terrible listeners...

yeah... a lot of nothing said...

so far I am right on the money:
its a battle to see who can be the most right-winged...

constitution ban on gay marriage
repeal don't ask don't tell
abortion

and a lot of vague details about cutting spending...

the Dems are surely taking notes

[DINAMO788]

This sucks. I dont want to vote democrat. I dont like the democrats, they're annoying little pussies. But the republicans are making it so hard to me to stay on their side. Damnit Romney, i thought we could be homies...

[Vulgotha]

Can you elaborate about how the bailouts and obamacare are blowing up in his face?

The GOP is having a debate on CNN as I type this.

The bailouts are not popularly received. At all.

And Obamacare is on the verge of being completely dismantled, and most certainly will be if the Senate and the Presidency swing back to the right in the next election cycle.

The voting majority is not in favor of Obamacare.

[weskurtz81]

so far I am right on the money:
its a battle to see who can be the most right-winged...

constitution ban on gay marriage
repeal don't ask don't tell
abortion

and a lot of vague details about cutting spending...

the Dems are surely taking notes

Meh, it was a debate with a pretty bad moderator, that constantly interrupted and cut people off before the time was up.

But, seriously, point me to a primary debate with 30 second answers (if you are lucky) that wasn't vague and going after the party support?

Edit: So, while these candidates are debating and trying to campaign for cash, Obama is having dinner with dozens of Wall Street execs! I wonder what he is promising those guys in those dinners in exchange for campaign money? You know, Wall Street was a HUGE doner in 2008 and it dried up since.... so what is Obama giving them to get it back?!

"We've seen battalions of financial industry lobbyists...firms spend[ing] millions to influence the outcome of this debate....I believe we can and must put this kind of cynical politics aside." -President Obama

Also, I would like to point out, economic indicators are pointing to worsening conditions, which will be tough for Obama to overcome if they persist through the election.

[DayWalker]

Meh, it was a debate with a pretty bad moderator, that constantly interrupted and cut people off before the time was up.

the moderator was bad- but its b/c he did a horrible job ACTUALLY cutting them off in the allotted time.
terrible format.


Also, I would like to point out, economic indicators are pointing to worsening conditions, which will be tough for Obama to overcome if they persist through the election.[/QUOTE]

with some effort I could find a nearly identical post that you made last year right around this time.
summers always slow down, and in a (coming out of a) recession the slow down seems more significant.

fuel went up, greece went wacky... deja vu all over again.

And then we followed it up with a pretty fantastic August thru April....

[DINAMO788]

Are any other major republicans expected to enter the field? I dont want to vote for a democrat for the first time. Especially since i know it wont bring about any change. see what i did there. ughhh gimme a good candidate.
If you say Ron Paul, you lose.