General Politics Thread

[raremew]

Well this year's election should be interesting, even though I cant vote. Turn 18 nov 28, by then the voting will be over. But still looks interesting...

[Sub-stance1]

Bailing out the auto's was to get votes. Period. Otherwise, it would have went differently to help the country.

Maybe, but it was still the right thing to do for the people. No one else stepped up to help.

[Ghost-Rhayne]

Presidential Erection *walks out*

[-Kwesnoth-]

Some people are still willing to make sacrifices. The majority of people don't want hand outs and shouldn't be put in that category. The middle class is still the backbone of this country.

Didn't there weren't people out there that are willing to sacrifice. And thats fucking bullshit, explain to me why every single person in the "occupy wall street" mobs are there? Cause they want the rich to pay for them.

The middle class is the backbone as long as that backbone is not held up only by a metal beam that is government funding.

[Sub-stance1]

Didn't there weren't people out there that are willing to sacrifice. And thats fucking bullshit, explain to me why every single person in the "occupy wall street" mobs are there? Cause they want the rich to pay for them.

The middle class is the backbone as long as that backbone is not held up only by a metal beam that is government funding.

I can't speak for any of the people who were involved in those protests, but I would never say that every one of them wanted hand outs or call them mobs. They were concerned citizens who just wanted their voices heard. They are no different from the tea party activists. I don't believe in big government either but i do believe in a more effective government. Its not all bad. It does help a lot of people in positive ways.

[weskurtz81]

Maybe, but it was still the right thing to do for the people. No one else stepped up to help.

Put them into a bankruptcy like they should have been, like Romney recommended, and the story would have been drastically different. Do you blame ANYONE for not wanting to throw money into that fire PRIOR to going into Ch 11? I don't, the government gave them 10's of Billions and they STILL went bankrupt!

[-Kwesnoth-]

I can't speak for any of the people who were involved in those protests, but I would never say that every one of them wanted hand outs or call them mobs. They were concerned citizens who just wanted their voices heard. They are no different from the tea party activists. I don't believe in big government either but i do believe in a more effective government. Its not all bad. It does help a lot of people in positive ways.

Except, ya know that they inhabited a park illegally for months, without paying anything. While tea party activists payed every time they gathered.

[Sub-stance1]

Except, ya know that they inhabited a park illegally for months, without paying anything. While tea party activists payed every time they gathered.

It still doesn't make all of them bad people or free loaders. Some tea party member were seen carrying racist signs but it doesn't mean they're all racist.

[-Kwesnoth-]

It still doesn't make all of them bad people or free loaders. Some tea party member were seen carrying racist signs but it doesn't mean they're all racist.

"Bad people thrive when good people do nothing", It makes them bad people for not at least leaving in order to show that what was happening was wrong. Racism is a personal opinion that any person is entitled too, laws are not opinions and must followed.

[Sub-stance1]

"Bad people thrive when good people do nothing", It makes them bad people for not at least leaving in order to show that what was happening was wrong. Racism is a personal opinion that any person is entitled too, laws are not opinions and must followed.

Only to racist people maybe. Its also founded on fear and ignorance which makes the opinion invalid.

[-Kwesnoth-]

No opinion is invalid. If you believe that, go somewhere where people aren't allowed to believe what ever they want. Its an opinion, if you don't like it...oh thats right, no one cares.

As someone who claims to be a former ranger, you'd think you would know that you were fighting for the right to have an opinion. Guess not.

[Sub-stance1]

No opinion is invalid. If you believe that, go somewhere where people aren't allowed to believe what ever they want. Its an opinion, if you don't like it...oh thats right, no one cares.

No one holds a good opinion of a man who holds a low opinion of himself. I have learned that those with the most opinions often have fewer facts.

As someone who claims to be a former ranger, you'd think you would know that you were fighting for the right to have an opinion. Guess not.

I'm still, and always will be a Ranger. It's for life baby. People have a right to say what they want but i won't judge a person on his opinions , but what his opinions have made of him.

[-Kwesnoth-]

Don't get me wrong. I don't support racism and never will. How did we get to racism...oh yeah, the tea party people are not at all the same as the Occupy Wall street people.

[Sub-stance1]

Don't get me wrong. I don't support racism and never will. How did we get to racism...oh yeah, the tea party people are not at all the same as the Occupy Wall street people.

You got me wondering now because its very strange to say that racism itself is an opinion.

[-Kwesnoth-]

Racism is an opinion just like abortion, and gay marriage.

[Sub-stance1]

Racism is an opinion just like abortion, and gay marriage.

I'm not even going there . Just drop it.

[-Kwesnoth-]

I'm not even going there . Just drop it.

Then don't assume I'm a racist.

[Sub-stance1]

Then don't assume I'm a racist.

I didn't assume you were a racist , but you lead me to believe that you aren't very clear on your understanding of its meaning.

[weskurtz81]

Put them into a bankruptcy like they should have been, like Romney recommended, and the story would have been drastically different. Do you blame ANYONE for not wanting to throw money into that fire PRIOR to going into Ch 11? I don't, the government gave them 10's of Billions and they STILL went bankrupt!

So, once again, how is what Romney said on the above subject a lie?

[Ixion]

So, once again, how is what Romney said on the above subject a lie?

Because Obama said it was a lie and Obama never lies.

[Vulgotha]

So, once again, how is what Romney said on the above subject a lie?

The only argument I've heard from a friend that made any level of sense for that bailout was something to do with fear of foreign powers running in and buying them all up (like the Chinese).

?

[MATRIX 2]

The only argument I've heard from a friend that made any level of sense for that bailout was something to do with fear of foreign powers running in and buying them all up (like the Chinese).

?

LOL, like we would ever let that happen. The Chinese may love buick automobiles, but I highly doubt the Chinese automakers would even have the capital to carry out such a purchase.


A better question is why couldn't GM/Chrysler do what Ford did and raise private capital so that they wouldn't have to take govt money.

[Vulgotha]

Yea I didn't buy the argument either.

[MATRIX 2]

Yea I didn't buy the argument either.

The only argument with even a hint of reason for the bailouts is to save the suppliers as well so GM/Chrysler didn't take them down which would also kill Ford.

Still, I'm fairly sure something could have been doe to alleviate that without bailing out GM/Chrysler like we did.

The fucked up thing, is at least for GM (too early to tell for Chrysler) they are regressing. Just look at the new malibu compared to the previous gen. It actually got worse.

[weskurtz81]

LOL, like we would ever let that happen. The Chinese may love buick automobiles, but I highly doubt the Chinese automakers would even have the capital to carry out such a purchase.


A better question is why couldn't GM/Chrysler do what Ford did and raise private capital so that why wouldn't have to take govt money.

I can answer your question. During the time when GM was on the verge of insolvency, the private equity markets were turned upside down and there wasn't much investment to be had. Remember, this all happened when the credit markets basically seized up and loans/investments were very difficult to come by even in MUCH smaller amounts.

To compound the problem, GM was hamstrung with some terrible union contracts and without restructuring those contracts no amount of money (that was actually accessible) would have made a difference.

So, they really only had two legitimate options at that point either take bail outs directly from the government (which they did) or go into Ch11 and work it out in the court systems (which they kind of eventually did). Once they would have gone into Ch11, they would have been allowed to continue operating (just like all the other businesses that go into Ch11) and they would have been forced to come up with a plan to right the ship.

What ultimately happened in the government (see- pro union) controlled bankruptcy, all the bond holders were wiped out (be glad you didn't buy GM debt when they needed it, you wouldn't haven't gotten a single cent back) and the union ended up taking a large chunk of the company (big win for big labor and the Obama administration).

So, what Romney has said all along, don't give them checks from the government, make them work through the bankruptcy system like all the other businesses have done in the past (some very large companies) and it would have worked out.