Page 116 of 217 FirstFirst ... 106116126 ... LastLast
Results 2,876 to 2,900 of 5410
  1. #2876
    Administrator
    Ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    PSN ID
    rokushakubo
    Posts
    12,934
    Rep Power
    134
    Points
    6,813,353 (100,956 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Awards PSU+ Patriot
    Presidential Erection *walks out*

  2. #2877
    Unbound Mercenary
    Kwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    16,263
    Rep Power
    145
    Points
    495,049 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Some people are still willing to make sacrifices. The majority of people don't want hand outs and shouldn't be put in that category. The middle class is still the backbone of this country.
    Didn't there weren't people out there that are willing to sacrifice. And thats $#@!ing bull$#@!, explain to me why every single person in the "occupy wall street" mobs are there? Cause they want the rich to pay for them.

    The middle class is the backbone as long as that backbone is not held up only by a metal beam that is government funding.
    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.




  3. #2878
    Elite Sage
    Sub-stance1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    10,343
    Rep Power
    80
    Points
    65,541 (0 Banked)
    Items BarcelonaPS3 Slim360 Slim
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Didn't there weren't people out there that are willing to sacrifice. And thats $#@!ing bull$#@!, explain to me why every single person in the "occupy wall street" mobs are there? Cause they want the rich to pay for them.

    The middle class is the backbone as long as that backbone is not held up only by a metal beam that is government funding.
    I can't speak for any of the people who were involved in those protests, but I would never say that every one of them wanted hand outs or call them mobs. They were concerned citizens who just wanted their voices heard. They are no different from the tea party activists. I don't believe in big government either but i do believe in a more effective government. Its not all bad. It does help a lot of people in positive ways.

  4. #2879
    Veteran
    weskurtz81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,857
    Rep Power
    76
    Points
    20,063 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Maybe, but it was still the right thing to do for the people. No one else stepped up to help.
    Put them into a bankruptcy like they should have been, like Romney recommended, and the story would have been drastically different. Do you blame ANYONE for not wanting to throw money into that fire PRIOR to going into Ch 11? I don't, the government gave them 10's of Billions and they STILL went bankrupt!
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


  5. #2880
    Unbound Mercenary
    Kwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    16,263
    Rep Power
    145
    Points
    495,049 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I can't speak for any of the people who were involved in those protests, but I would never say that every one of them wanted hand outs or call them mobs. They were concerned citizens who just wanted their voices heard. They are no different from the tea party activists. I don't believe in big government either but i do believe in a more effective government. Its not all bad. It does help a lot of people in positive ways.
    Except, ya know that they inhabited a park illegally for months, without paying anything. While tea party activists payed every time they gathered.
    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.




  6. #2881
    Elite Sage
    Sub-stance1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    10,343
    Rep Power
    80
    Points
    65,541 (0 Banked)
    Items BarcelonaPS3 Slim360 Slim
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Except, ya know that they inhabited a park illegally for months, without paying anything. While tea party activists payed every time they gathered.
    It still doesn't make all of them bad people or free loaders. Some tea party member were seen carrying racist signs but it doesn't mean they're all racist.

  7. #2882
    Unbound Mercenary
    Kwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    16,263
    Rep Power
    145
    Points
    495,049 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    It still doesn't make all of them bad people or free loaders. Some tea party member were seen carrying racist signs but it doesn't mean they're all racist.
    "Bad people thrive when good people do nothing", It makes them bad people for not at least leaving in order to show that what was happening was wrong. Racism is a personal opinion that any person is entitled too, laws are not opinions and must followed.
    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.




  8. #2883
    Elite Sage
    Sub-stance1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    10,343
    Rep Power
    80
    Points
    65,541 (0 Banked)
    Items BarcelonaPS3 Slim360 Slim
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    "Bad people thrive when good people do nothing", It makes them bad people for not at least leaving in order to show that what was happening was wrong. Racism is a personal opinion that any person is entitled too, laws are not opinions and must followed.
    Only to racist people maybe. Its also founded on fear and ignorance which makes the opinion invalid.

  9. #2884
    Unbound Mercenary
    Kwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    16,263
    Rep Power
    145
    Points
    495,049 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    No opinion is invalid. If you believe that, go somewhere where people aren't allowed to believe what ever they want. Its an opinion, if you don't like it...oh thats right, no one cares.

    As someone who claims to be a former ranger, you'd think you would know that you were fighting for the right to have an opinion. Guess not.
    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.




  10. #2885
    Elite Sage
    Sub-stance1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    10,343
    Rep Power
    80
    Points
    65,541 (0 Banked)
    Items BarcelonaPS3 Slim360 Slim
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    No opinion is invalid. If you believe that, go somewhere where people aren't allowed to believe what ever they want. Its an opinion, if you don't like it...oh thats right, no one cares.
    No one holds a good opinion of a man who holds a low opinion of himself. I have learned that those with the most opinions often have fewer facts.

    As someone who claims to be a former ranger, you'd think you would know that you were fighting for the right to have an opinion. Guess not.
    I'm still, and always will be a Ranger. It's for life baby. People have a right to say what they want but i won't judge a person on his opinions , but what his opinions have made of him.

  11. #2886
    Unbound Mercenary
    Kwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    16,263
    Rep Power
    145
    Points
    495,049 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Don't get me wrong. I don't support racism and never will. How did we get to racism...oh yeah, the tea party people are not at all the same as the Occupy Wall street people.
    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.




  12. #2887
    Elite Sage
    Sub-stance1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    10,343
    Rep Power
    80
    Points
    65,541 (0 Banked)
    Items BarcelonaPS3 Slim360 Slim
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Don't get me wrong. I don't support racism and never will. How did we get to racism...oh yeah, the tea party people are not at all the same as the Occupy Wall street people.
    You got me wondering now because its very strange to say that racism itself is an opinion.

  13. #2888
    Unbound Mercenary
    Kwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    16,263
    Rep Power
    145
    Points
    495,049 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Racism is an opinion just like abortion, and gay marriage.
    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.




  14. #2889
    Elite Sage
    Sub-stance1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    10,343
    Rep Power
    80
    Points
    65,541 (0 Banked)
    Items BarcelonaPS3 Slim360 Slim
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Racism is an opinion just like abortion, and gay marriage.
    I'm not even going there . Just drop it.

  15. #2890
    Unbound Mercenary
    Kwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    16,263
    Rep Power
    145
    Points
    495,049 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I'm not even going there . Just drop it.
    Then don't assume I'm a racist.
    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.




  16. #2891
    Elite Sage
    Sub-stance1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    10,343
    Rep Power
    80
    Points
    65,541 (0 Banked)
    Items BarcelonaPS3 Slim360 Slim
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Then don't assume I'm a racist.
    I didn't assume you were a racist , but you lead me to believe that you aren't very clear on your understanding of its meaning.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-24-2012 at 00:56.

  17. #2892
    Veteran
    weskurtz81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,857
    Rep Power
    76
    Points
    20,063 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    Put them into a bankruptcy like they should have been, like Romney recommended, and the story would have been drastically different. Do you blame ANYONE for not wanting to throw money into that fire PRIOR to going into Ch 11? I don't, the government gave them 10's of Billions and they STILL went bankrupt!
    So, once again, how is what Romney said on the above subject a lie?
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


  18. #2893
    Supreme Veteran
    Ixion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    New York
    PSN ID
    MagicManGSC
    Age
    24
    Posts
    19,971
    Rep Power
    162
    Points
    72,660 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    So, once again, how is what Romney said on the above subject a lie?
    Because Obama said it was a lie and Obama never lies.

  19. #2894
    Power Member
    Vulgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    24
    Posts
    15,953
    Rep Power
    146
    Points
    111,037 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    So, once again, how is what Romney said on the above subject a lie?
    The only argument I've heard from a friend that made any level of sense for that bailout was something to do with fear of foreign powers running in and buying them all up (like the Chinese).

    ?


  20. #2895
    Forum Sage
    MATRIX 2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    D.C.
    Posts
    8,042
    Rep Power
    114
    Points
    44,725 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    The only argument I've heard from a friend that made any level of sense for that bailout was something to do with fear of foreign powers running in and buying them all up (like the Chinese).

    ?
    LOL, like we would ever let that happen. The Chinese may love buick automobiles, but I highly doubt the Chinese automakers would even have the capital to carry out such a purchase.


    A better question is why couldn't GM/Chrysler do what Ford did and raise private capital so that they wouldn't have to take govt money.

  21. #2896
    Power Member
    Vulgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Age
    24
    Posts
    15,953
    Rep Power
    146
    Points
    111,037 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Yea I didn't buy the argument either.


  22. #2897
    Forum Sage
    MATRIX 2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    D.C.
    Posts
    8,042
    Rep Power
    114
    Points
    44,725 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Yea I didn't buy the argument either.
    The only argument with even a hint of reason for the bailouts is to save the suppliers as well so GM/Chrysler didn't take them down which would also kill Ford.

    Still, I'm fairly sure something could have been doe to alleviate that without bailing out GM/Chrysler like we did.

    The $#@!ed up thing, is at least for GM (too early to tell for Chrysler) they are regressing. Just look at the new malibu compared to the previous gen. It actually got worse.

  23. #2898
    Veteran
    weskurtz81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,857
    Rep Power
    76
    Points
    20,063 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    LOL, like we would ever let that happen. The Chinese may love buick automobiles, but I highly doubt the Chinese automakers would even have the capital to carry out such a purchase.


    A better question is why couldn't GM/Chrysler do what Ford did and raise private capital so that why wouldn't have to take govt money.
    I can answer your question. During the time when GM was on the verge of insolvency, the private equity markets were turned upside down and there wasn't much investment to be had. Remember, this all happened when the credit markets basically seized up and loans/investments were very difficult to come by even in MUCH smaller amounts.

    To compound the problem, GM was hamstrung with some terrible union contracts and without restructuring those contracts no amount of money (that was actually accessible) would have made a difference.

    So, they really only had two legitimate options at that point either take bail outs directly from the government (which they did) or go into Ch11 and work it out in the court systems (which they kind of eventually did). Once they would have gone into Ch11, they would have been allowed to continue operating (just like all the other businesses that go into Ch11) and they would have been forced to come up with a plan to right the ship.

    What ultimately happened in the government (see- pro union) controlled bankruptcy, all the bond holders were wiped out (be glad you didn't buy GM debt when they needed it, you wouldn't haven't gotten a single cent back) and the union ended up taking a large chunk of the company (big win for big labor and the Obama administration).

    So, what Romney has said all along, don't give them checks from the government, make them work through the bankruptcy system like all the other businesses have done in the past (some very large companies) and it would have worked out.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


  24. #2899
    Forum Sage
    MATRIX 2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    D.C.
    Posts
    8,042
    Rep Power
    114
    Points
    44,725 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    I can answer your question. During the time when GM was on the verge of insolvency, the private equity markets were turned upside down and there wasn't much investment to be had. Remember, this all happened when the credit markets basically seized up and loans/investments were very difficult to come by even in MUCH smaller amounts.

    To compound the problem, GM was hamstrung with some terrible union contracts and without restructuring those contracts no amount of money (that was actually accessible) would have made a difference.

    So, they really only had two legitimate options at that point either take bail outs directly from the government (which they did) or go into Ch11 and work it out in the court systems (which they kind of eventually did). Once they would have gone into Ch11, they would have been allowed to continue operating (just like all the other businesses that go into Ch11) and they would have been forced to come up with a plan to right the ship.

    What ultimately happened in the government (see- pro union) controlled bankruptcy, all the bond holders were wiped out (be glad you didn't buy GM debt when they needed it, you wouldn't haven't gotten a single cent back) and the union ended up taking a large chunk of the company (big win for big labor and the Obama administration).

    So, what Romney has said all along, don't give them checks from the government, make them work through the bankruptcy system like all the other businesses have done in the past (some very large companies) and it would have worked out.
    Right. But GM/Chrysler (along with ford) saw this coming. I chalk it up to incompetent leadership at the former for not doing anything about it like Ford did.

  25. #2900
    Veteran
    weskurtz81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,857
    Rep Power
    76
    Points
    20,063 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Right. But GM/Chrysler (along with ford) saw this coming. I chalk it up to incompetent leadership at the former for not doing anything about it like Ford did.
    You can certainly make that argument, Ford did leverage the entire company while they were still able to, the others did not and paid dearly for it.

    Alan Mulally and the rest of the Ford regime is CLEARLY superior to GM/Chrylser leadership, but I think the timing of Ford mortgaging the entire company had little to do with looming economic conditions (which weren't clear in 2006) and more to do with what they were planning to do with the company to get it turned around.

    Ultimately, the timing was perfect, they handed the company off to Mr. Mulally and he put a plan in place to turn the company into the shining beacon of success it is today, but like I said I think the timing had little to do with the pending economic crisis (I could be wrong, would have to ask Ford leadership).

    Interesting, Letterman agrees with me!

    Last edited by weskurtz81; 10-24-2012 at 22:36.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
vBCredits II Deluxe v2.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2010-2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.