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  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Ah, so that is not satisfactory for you either. And most staticians would tell me this? Truly?

    http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/24/on-the-track-record-of-simple-poll-aggregation/

    Somebody tell this poor fool over at Princeton then (Sam Wang).
    again B is really what you want to focus on

    and I, as well as my stats book (and professr) would disagree with mr wang


    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Ah, so that is not satisfactory for you either. And most staticians would tell me this? Truly?

    http://election.princeton.edu/2008/10/24/on-the-track-record-of-simple-poll-aggregation/

    Somebody tell this poor fool over at Princeton then (Sam Wang).

    And he even quotes pollster (the guys who make those charts).

    Honestly I'm getting annoyed at your continued posts. Because its becoming a waste of time addressing them.
    you'll be ok

    but again... PART B... that was the bulk of my argument...
    you can throw a fit about your boy rasmussen and about how obamacare is unpopular for as long as you want.

    at then end of the day- I was not arguing that it was popular.

    I think you know this- hence your lack of focus on the real point.

    maybe put a warm towel on your face and count backwards from 10?
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 06-17-2011 at 04:33.

    By Theft
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    Trust me, it's sad

  2. #277
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    I'm thinking you've absolutely no clue as to how Pollster and Mr. Wang actually aggregate this polling data. You latch on to the concept that "just throwing numbers into the mix and looking at the result" is wrong, and do not bother to go one step further than that in your analysis.

    My issue with you, Daywalker, is that you never argue with anything substantial. I mean your initial complaints on the last page? Weak. Your follow up arguments? Weaker. And then of course the pinnacle of your debating skills was brought forth here.

    "Most staticians would not tell you to do this..."

    I present evidence blowing that statement out of the water from a highly reputable source.

    Your counter argument:
    "WELL My stats book and my professor would disagree.."

    Nothing more than that. Leading me to believe you have no clue what's really going on with this type of aggregation.

    Oh, and then for good measure you accuse me of totally drifting off the "point".
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 06-17-2011 at 04:22.


  3. #278
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    you're ignoring my substantial argument!!!

    if you want me to go re-check my stats notes... I can...

    but its all irrelevant to the argument that I was making. This is all a red-herring so you can avoid the main topic. something that you are very good at doing...

    My point of rasmussen was a minor side note to an overall comment... one YOU chose to focus on.
    Last edited by DayWalker; 06-17-2011 at 14:21.

    By Theft
    I am stunned that some people appear to love their Playstation(1,2,3) or Xbox(360) more than I love the Denver Broncos.
    Trust me, it's sad

  4. #279
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    I had every reason to address your criticisms of Rasmussen, and your positions on polling in particular.


    w\e man. This will be my last post on your "polling debacle".
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 06-17-2011 at 04:29.


  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I had every reason to address your criticisms of Rasmussen, and your positions on polling in particular.
    the point on rasmussen stands as it is widely seen as bias and has been called such by... anyone who isn't republican...

    I will recheck the claim on aggregate data- I could be mistaken- but I don't think I am as I don't see how one gets around the different polling methodologies.

    there.


    My point wasn't focused on rasmussen... it wasn't focused on disputing your claim that obamacare was unpopular...
    Last edited by DayWalker; 06-17-2011 at 14:21.

    By Theft
    I am stunned that some people appear to love their Playstation(1,2,3) or Xbox(360) more than I love the Denver Broncos.
    Trust me, it's sad

  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    and another poll illustrating my point from gallup...



    republicans hate it... (no solutions)
    indy's are split (yet to understand it)
    dems like it (tho they wish it went further)

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    the above post illustrates how the Obamacare isn't really the poison that SOME... ehem... would love to believe
    Last edited by DayWalker; 06-17-2011 at 14:21.

    By Theft
    I am stunned that some people appear to love their Playstation(1,2,3) or Xbox(360) more than I love the Denver Broncos.
    Trust me, it's sad

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonable_doubt View Post
    so George Bush was Black?

    race has nothing to do with Obama criticism, he made a bunch of wild claims to get elected.
    Obama made wild claims? Please tell me what wild claims he made. Also, GWB is a completely different person. To say race has nothing to do with it is an ignorant statement. Especially with all the slogans the republicans have used in the past to paint obama as a socialist and all. You cannot act like being the first black president is meaningless to this debate of whether he is a good president. People are influenced by race and it may or may not be a majority but it is significant.


    Also, with this Obamacare talk. How is it that we spend the most in the world on health care, but a 3rd world country like Cuba has better healthcare? The health care bill was a good bill it had republicans ideas from the Clinton Administration when they tried to tackle healthcare reform. Republicans just love to criticize Obama for whatever he does. Libya for example. They said he should send air support and then when he did they said he should have talked with congress. They said air support should come immediately, he waited and went by the UN and then when it finally came they b**ched. Republicans just find ways to criticize Obama whether it is valid or not. And any republican on here will back them up because it is more important to people to be right than it is to realize that liberals since the dawn of time have brought the world into a better place.
    Last edited by legendkiller222; 06-17-2011 at 10:22.

  8. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by legendkiller222 View Post
    Obama made wild claims? Please tell me what wild claims he made. Also, GWB is a completely different person. To say race has nothing to do with it is an ignorant statement. Especially with all the slogans the republicans have used in the past to paint obama as a socialist and all. You cannot act like being the first black president is meaningless to this debate of whether he is a good president. People are influenced by race and it may or may not be a majority but it is significant.


    Also, with this Obamacare talk. How is it that we spend the most in the world on health care, but a 3rd world country like Cuba has better healthcare? The health care bill was a good bill it had republicans ideas from the Clinton Administration when they tried to tackle healthcare reform. Republicans just love to criticize Obama for whatever he does. Libya for example. They said he should send air support and then when he did they said he should have talked with congress. They said air support should come immediately, he waited and went by the UN and then when it finally came they b**ched. Republicans just find ways to criticize Obama whether it is valid or not. And any republican on here will back them up because it is more important to people to be right than it is to realize that liberals since the dawn of time have brought the world into a better place.
    you sound like the kind of person who hates sarah palin because she has a weird way of talking. obama blew smoke up our asses with campaign promises, but that's every politician, except most of them aren't weaklings


    Let's be honest: You sleep with anything that walks on two legs. Sometimes, you're not even that discriminating

  9. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by legendkiller222 View Post
    Obama made wild claims? Please tell me what wild claims he made.
    Just curious, you don't think he has broken any of his campaign promises?

    Quote Originally Posted by legendkiller222 View Post
    Also, GWB is a completely different person. To say race has nothing to do with it is an ignorant statement. Especially with all the slogans the republicans have used in the past to paint obama as a socialist and all.
    To say race has a lot to do with it is equally ignorant. George W. Bush was heavily criticized, had targets painted on pictures of him, called a Nazi.... is that because he was white or because people disagreed with him?

    As far as painting Obama as a socialist, is there some correlation between Socialism and being black? None that I am aware of, so how do you come to the conclusion you come to simply based off of criticism? Do you think he is the first Democrat that has been called a Socialist? Do you think any of the people he ran against were called Socialist? You will need a MUCH better example than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by legendkiller222 View Post
    You cannot act like being the first black president is meaningless to this debate of whether he is a good president. People are influenced by race and it may or may not be a majority but it is significant.
    I would LOVE to see some stats on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by legendkiller222 View Post
    Also, with this Obamacare talk. How is it that we spend the most in the world on health care, but a 3rd world country like Cuba has better healthcare?
    Funny thing about that is, Cuban's try to make it over here on a regular basis.... despite Cuban healthcare. It's pretty simple really, our healthcare system has many cost drivers that are entrenched, and the health care reform bill did little to address the associated cost drivers. The LEVEL of healthcare in the US is most certainly better than what Cuba has, but the fact that it is so expensive causes people to choose to not go to the doctor as much as they should. In reality, people come from all over the world to have procedures done in the US, but it isn't cheap and those people have the money to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by legendkiller222 View Post
    The health care bill was a good bill it had republicans ideas from the Clinton Administration when they tried to tackle healthcare reform. Republicans just love to criticize Obama for whatever he does. Libya for example. They said he should send air support and then when he did they said he should have talked with congress. They said air support should come immediately, he waited and went by the UN and then when it finally came they b**ched. Republicans just find ways to criticize Obama whether it is valid or not. And any republican on here will back them up because it is more important to people to be right than it is to
    That's pretty much the same thing ANY President goes through.

    Quote Originally Posted by legendkiller222 View Post
    liberals since the dawn of time have brought the world into a better place.
    So, what's aspects of US Conservatism/Libertarianism do you disagree with? Do you think there are any Liberal stances that you don't agree with? If so, what are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    the rebates weren't meant to "cure" the housing crisis. It was meant to soften the blow of the 2008 crash. Which it did.
    And, the worst housing market since the Great Depression is a softened blow? It was only a minor uptick in a long string of down ticks. It was nothing but a sugar high, it didn't soften anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    I'd like to see your "vast majority of experts"
    According to this dude from harvard, this recovery closely follows recoveries from our history:
    That's weird, according to this dude from Yale, your guy from Harvard is just following a model and not really analyzing current economic indicators and conditions.

    http://blogs.barrons.com/focusonfund...s-substantial/

    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    could have sworn the oil companies proved they don't know wtf they are doing last year...
    Oil companies? How many of them had blowouts in the Gulf? Was it a lack of technology/know how, or was it just some idiots that weren't paying attention to what was going on and not following protocols?

    Edit: BTW, you ignored the rest of my post that you were responding to, feel free to respond to the other points.
    Last edited by weskurtz81; 06-17-2011 at 15:40.
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  10. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funeralfog View Post
    you sound like the kind of person who hates sarah palin because she has a weird way of talking. obama blew smoke up our asses with campaign promises, but that's every politician, except most of them aren't weaklings
    NO, we hate sarah palin because she resigned after people started snooping into her embezzlement scandal http://www.amconmag.com/postright/20...ement-scandal/ Oh yeah and thats a right leaning paper source as well. Also she isn't bright at all

    @weskurtz http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/Norton Vandello Biga Darley.pdf thats a whole PDF that talks about how much race influences people. Its been ling known that minorties having indentical trans scripts are more likely to get into a four year college than his/her white counterpart. Thats a fact
    Last edited by Seahawkk; 06-17-2011 at 16:49.



  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    @weskurtz http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/Norton Vandello Biga Darley.pdf thats a whole PDF that talks about how much race influences people. Its been ling known that minorties having indentical trans scripts are more likely to get into a four year college than his/her white counterpart. Thats a fact
    Fixed that link for the rest of the people.... Edit, maybe I didn't fix it.... here it is again.

    http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/No...0%20Darley.pdf

    Yeah, I don't dispute the fact that race influences decisions, and clearly in this case it worked in favor of the minorities (although, you'd never hear that coming from a minority, no way could they have an upper hand in ANY situation where a white person is involved!), but I think it's nonsense for people to simple say people bash Obama because he's black.... it's generally the argument people use when they don't have the intellectual capacity to develop a standalone argument on their own.
    Last edited by weskurtz81; 06-17-2011 at 17:01.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


  12. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    Fixed that link for the rest of the people.... Edit, maybe I didn't fix it.... here it is again.

    http://tinyurl.com/3pdgh6e

    Yeah, I don't dispute the fact that race influences decisions, and clearly in this case it worked in favor of the minorities (although, you'd never hear that coming from a minority, no way could they have an upper hand in ANY situation where a white person is involved!), but I think it's nonsense for people to simple say people bash Obama because he's black.... it's generally the argument people use when they don't have the intellectual capacity to develop a standalone argument on their own.

    I know but some people still look at black people and think effing N$%$#$ because they're ignorant. Glenn Beck frequently called obama a marxist nazi on TV. There was rumors started about him not being a natural born citizen and that he is Muslim (which many still believe) Even though Religion should have nothing to do with an election.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    I know but some people still look at black people and think effing N$%$#$ because they're ignorant. Glenn Beck frequently called obama a marxist nazi on TV. There was rumors started about him not being a natural born citizen and that he is Muslim (which many still believe) Even though Religion should have nothing to do with an election.
    Sure, that will probably always exist to some extent, racism goes in every direction, black to white, white to black, etc etc. Stupidity and ignorance cannot be cured easily.

    On Glenn Beck, he's Glenn Beck, he's the talk radio version of a shock jock. He has called any number of different Democrats all sorts of different names, not just Obama.

    On his nationality and religion, it has nothing to do with being a black man. If his name were William Robertson, and he never had any ties to Kenya (or whatever country it was), and both his parents were clearly American, it wouldn't have gone down like it did. In this case, his name is Barack Obama (ammunition #1), and his father is Kenyan (ammunition #2). I am not saying it's right, but you aren't going to be able to avoid these types of rumors when they are so easy to fabricate, the ground work was already in place regardless of whether or not it was true, but it had little/nothing to do with his color.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


  14. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    you'd never hear that coming from a minority, no way could they have an upper hand in ANY situation where a white person is involved!
    That's an incredibly racist claim, bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legendkiller222 View Post
    Also, with this Obamacare talk. How is it that we spend the most in the world on health care, but a 3rd world country like Cuba has better healthcare?
    Well, let's first explain why the US spends the most on healthcare.

    An estimated 1.5 million people immigrate to the US each year. That's the highest rate of immigration on earth. These 1.5 million new people need new hospitals, new doctors, new medical equipment, pretty much all new healthcare infrastructure built for them.

    Now, on top of the immigrants, the US native born population grows by 1.6 million people per year. They also need new healthcare infrastructure built for them


    So, in total, the US has to pay for an entirely new healthcare infrastructure for 3.1 million new people every single year.


    Cuba has population growth of less than 1 million people PER DECADE. They build very little new infrastructure each year because they have very little population growth. Therefore, they spend less per person on building new hospitals, buying new medical equipment, hiring new doctors, etc...



    Now don't tell me you're naive enough to think that all of the money that's spent on "healthcare" actually goes into medical treatment in the US. A huge amount goes into infrastructure development, something which few other countries have to deal with.

    The US is the 3rd largest and 3rd fastest growing population on earth. If you want to compare our healthcare with a country in similar position, only China and India have similar population growth rates. Go compare our healthcare system with theirs sometime.




    OK, now let's look at Cuba's healthcare system. First off, what makes you think it's better than the US?

    Cuba life expectancy = 78.3 years old
    USA life expectancy = 78.3 years old

    Cubans don't live any longer, so what makes you think they're getting better healthcare?



    Also, it should be noted that there are an estimated 16+ million illegal immigrants in the US who tend to not go to doctors for healthcare because they are afraid of being reported to INS. They tend to drag the average US life expectency way down compared to the native born population.

    And then diet and obesity is an issue, more specifically a racial issue.

    12% of whites in the US are classified as obese
    13% of Asians in the US are classified as obese
    23% of Hispanics in the US are classified as obese
    28% of blacks in the US are classified as obese

    It should be of no surprise to find that Hispanics and blacks have a life expectency that is 10 years less than whites and Asians in the US.

    And this isn't a result of the healthcare system, it's a result of personal care. Blacks and hispanics eat less healthy, see the doctor less, and as a result, die sooner.

    And despite that, the US still matches Cuba's total life expectency.



    So again I ask, what makes you so sure Cuba's healthcare system is better? Did Michael Moore tell you to believe that, or was it Sean Penn and his buddy Hugo Chavez?
    Last edited by Completely Average; 06-17-2011 at 18:04.

  16. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kydosan View Post
    That's an incredibly racist claim, bro.
    No it's not, you can call it intolerant and inaccurate (because it wasn't meant to be serious, more like a poke at a few people in here that are using the race card), but it's not racist.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    No it's not, you can call it intolerant and inaccurate (because it wasn't meant to be serious, more like a poke at a few people in here that are using the race card), but it's not racist.
    I think you'll find "all non-whites have a persecution complex" does in fact qualify as a racist statement

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    One more thing for anyone who supports Obamacare. Answer these simple questions...


    #1. Name just 1 way in which Obamacare actually improves the QUALITY of healthcare that you will receive.

    #2. Obamacare adds 34 MILLION people to Medicaid. How much does Obamacare increase Medicaid funding to pay for these 34 Million additional people?

    #3. Given that Obamacare was rulled UNCONSTITUTIONAL by a US Federal Judge (More than once), how do you justify supporting it when it's already been deemed illegal?
    Last edited by Completely Average; 06-17-2011 at 18:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kydosan View Post
    I think you'll find "all non-whites have a persecution complex" does in fact qualify as a racist statement
    No more so than suggesting that people who criticize Obama do so because he is black is a racist statement.

    Calling or suggesting someone is a racist just because their skin color may not match the person they are criticizing is a racist act in itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kydosan View Post
    I think you'll find "all non-whites have a persecution complex" does in fact qualify as a racist statement
    Meh, it's stereotyping. If I said most African American men leave their wives/mates, is that racist or a stereotype?

    Edit: But like I said, considering my posting history, I would assume most people would be able to tell it wasn't meant to be serious, rather, it was meant to antagonize some of the people in this thread that were dropping the race card.... although there is SOME truth to minorities having a persecution complex.... hence it's stereotyping.
    Last edited by weskurtz81; 06-17-2011 at 18:35.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Completely Average View Post
    One more thing for anyone who supports Obamacare. Answer these simple questions...


    #1. Name just 1 way in which Obamacare actually improves the QUALITY of healthcare that you will receive.

    #2. Obamacare adds 34 MILLION people to Medicaid. How much does Obamacare increase Medicaid funding to pay for these 34 Million additional people?

    #3. Given that Obamacare was rulled UNCONSTITUTIONAL by a US Federal Judge (More than once), how do you justify supporting it when it's already been deemed illegal?
    1. I am under 26 years of age so therefore i can stay on my parents healthcare

    2. You can pick plans obamacare is there to compete with health insurance companies to improve there ways of business, because right now if you get dropped for anything they want. Also if you do not wish to choose a plan they take i think .2% of your total income. (not entirely sure on that one)

    3. how is it deemed illegal? because the government can not force you to pay for anything?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    3. how is it deemed illegal? because the government can not force you to pay for anything?
    The argument is, it's a tax just for being alive, which is unconstitutional. It's just going to have to be battled out in the court system, we'll see what happens.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    The argument is, it's a tax just for being alive, which is unconstitutional. It's just going to have to be battled out in the court system, we'll see what happens.
    So? income tax is a tax for having a job, which in fact is part of being alive. unless you plan on mooching off the system, which also gets its money from other people having jobs.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawkk View Post
    So? income tax is a tax for having a job, which in fact is part of being alive. unless you plan on mooching off the system, which also gets its money from other people having jobs.
    You don't have to have a job, no one makes you work. I have mixed emotions on mandating insurance coverage, I can see two sides to that coin, but I am still not a big fan of this reform because I don't think it addresses the root of our health care issues.... cost drivers.

    Edit: Bottom line is, it's not a cut and dried issue, and it will have to be worked out in the court system.
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


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    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    You don't have to have a job, no one makes you work. I have mixed emotions on mandating insurance coverage, I can see two sides to that coin, but I am still not a big fan of this reform because I don't think it addresses the root of our health care issues.... cost drivers.

    Edit: Bottom line is, it's not a cut and dried issue, and it will have to be worked out in the court system.
    You also don't have to go to the doctor if you dont want to.



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