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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I don't give a $#@! about Kerry or what happened in 2004. I was a little busy at the time to worry about politics , but I did vote for Bush in the election before that one if you wanna dwell in the past. My point is that if Obama is as bad as people make him out to be, then the American people will vote him out. Simple as that. if that happens, I can live with it. Can you if it doesn't?
    That depends on what happens over the next 4 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    That depends on what happens over the next 4 years.
    My advice is to deal with the present. The next 4 years isn't guaranteed for anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Bull$#@!. They weren't bogus. So you are saying Obama has the labor department in his pocket? Were they fake when it was up to 9 percent? Stop dude.
    I'm not saying that the labor department is in his pocket at all, what i'm saying is the numbers are bull$#@!. That number is basically created by a household poll. Someone calls up houses and they aggregate that number across the board. What i'm saying is that number is pulled out of their ass. The unemployment is much much higher that what it actually is stated there.

    Somebody get me a doctor, I ain't feelin' ill ...But I ain't feelin' this at all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    My advice is to deal with the present. The next 4 years isn't guaranteed for anyone.
    The next 4 years begins in 4 days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by btbam View Post
    I'm not saying that the labor department is in his pocket at all, what i'm saying is the numbers are bull$#@!. That number is basically created by a household poll. Someone calls up houses and they aggregate that number across the board. What i'm saying is that number is pulled out of their ass. The unemployment is much much higher that what it actually is stated there.
    Bull$#@!... all the economic numbers show we are in a recovery. The job numbers and rate aren't bogus. If they are fake then it could easily be proven wrong. Why hasn't it been proven wrong? If someone like you who is not even a economist can figure it out then why haven't economist come forward to say the number is wrong.....and why didn't they come forward when it was at 4% or 9%? The numbers aren't as good as they need to be but they are improving.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 11-03-2012 at 04:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    The unemployment rate was 10% before Obama took office and there has been over 5 million jobs created with 32 straight months of private sector growth. It could be a lot worse if the auto bailout didn't happen. Before he came into office things were a lot worse than they are now. It's not good enough and not happening fast enough but things were much worse back in 2008/2009.

    When Clinton left office the rate was 4.2 percent and when Obama came in it was around what it is right now, then it rose but now it's going back down. I don't know about any lies he told, but from what I can see things aren't getting worse, they seem to be improving a bit. Personally, I don't care who is in the white house as long as people are finding work and it eases the suffering.



    I really don't see why you care so much since you claim not to care about politics or care to vote. If you don't want to see things improve because you don't like who is in the white house, then just say so because that's what it sounds like. I never mentioned anything about Obama but if you don't like the man or what he stands for, then go cast your vote for the other guy and help get him out of office.

    Now if you wanna play the politics game we can go there because Ive been following this whole presidential race since the beginning and i know who lies and what the facts are.
    The rate wasn't 10% before he took office. It could be a lot better if the auto bailout didn't happen. Things weren't a lot worse. Things have gotten worse since the day he took office. I DON'T care about politics. I care about our country being lead by a person that is willing to do what needs to be done to help this country. Political agendas, politics, don't have $#@! to do with helping us. wt, where have I ever said I don't want to see things improve. ffs. Because I don't like the way our country has went more in debt, healthcare for my family hasn't gotten ANY better; it's actually get worse, unemployment isn't better than it was the day the current president took office, corporations still get billions of dollars given by the people Obama put into place, goodness... we can go on all day long with the $#@! that is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    no, you just caught up because you didn't read that article nor my post thoroughly. As we say in my profession, "next time make sure your safety isn't on before you try and fire a round."



    I don't need to wake up because I realize that Obama is the president and it doesn't bother me as much as its does some of you. The people will decide who is best for the country and there is nothing you or anyone else here can do about that. And you don't know how bad Romney will be because he hasn't had the chance to serve yet. I don't think Obama is that bad because I don't just go along with what people say. I go by what I see and I don't see him as a bad president. I think a lot of Americans agree because if they didn't this race would already be over and Romney would be ahead in the polls but he is not. Obama isn't perfect but far from being bad for this country. You are just repeating things you have heard the media and political pundits say.






    Yea, i've heard that one before. If you are one,which i doubt, it's in name only. I don't buy it.





    Bull$#@!. They weren't bogus. So you are saying Obama has the labor department in his pocket? Were they fake when it was up to 9 percent? Stop dude.
    People don't know anything about what Obama will do, has done, etc. There has been numerous interviews with the public.. giving them policies that "Romney" will put into play.. these Obama supporters said those policies were not good for Americans, they dislike Romney for suggesting these types of policies, etc., and yet they were actually policies that Obama put into affect already. So, no, a lot of Americans don't agree. They just don't know $#@! either.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Bull$#@!... all the economic numbers show we are in a recovery. The job numbers and rate aren't bogus. If they are fake then it could easily be proven wrong. Why hasn't it been proven wrong? If someone like you who is not even a economist can figure it out then why haven't economist come forward to say the number is wrong.....and why didn't they come forward when it was at 4% or 9%? The numbers aren't as good as they need to be but they are improving.
    LOL where have you been? There are two unemployment rates. the U-3 which only details people who are looking for work and who can't find work. It classifies them as "unemployed...rightly so. This U-3 number is the number that obama likes touting. the U-6 is the real number you should pay attention to. This includes people who are looking and can't find work, people who have dropped out of the labor market after long time of unemployment and people who are working part time looking for full time work. The specific criterion that they use is that they are part time looking for full time but can't because of economic reasons. this number is at about 14.5%. Now IMO the part timers shouldn't be counted in this and economists HAVE readjusted this and the real unemployment rate which includes people looking for work who don't have a job and people who have dropped out of the labor market after long unemployment. Unemployment is north of 11% when you subtract the part timers and is 14.5% when you add in people who are underemployed.

    Now these numbers do not show a recovery at all. we aren't even creating enough jobs to keep up with population growth. that means...we are slowly stepping back!

    Somebody get me a doctor, I ain't feelin' ill ...But I ain't feelin' this at all...

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    yawn... 4 days...

    By Theft
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    Trust me, it's sad

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    The rate wasn't 10% before he took office. It could be a lot better if the auto bailout didn't happen. Things weren't a lot worse. Things have gotten worse since the day he took office. I DON'T care about politics. I care about our country being lead by a person that is willing to do what needs to be done to help this country. Political agendas, politics, don't have $#@! to do with helping us. wt, where have I ever said I don't want to see things improve. ffs. Because I don't like the way our country has went more in debt, healthcare for my family hasn't gotten ANY better; it's actually get worse, unemployment isn't better than it was the day the current president took office, corporations still get billions of dollars given by the people Obama put into place, goodness... we can go on all day long with the $#@! that is wrong.
    Bull$#@!. Where have you been the last 4 years? Things are better than were before. We were in two wars and had the worst economic crisis since the great depression. We were losing over 700, 000 jobs per month, wall street crisis, the housing market crash, car industry was in trouble, and much more. Come on dude. I'm not saying that things are great but anyone can see that things are better that they were in 2008. We were in a free fall. We still are losing jobs but not at the rate we were in 2008. There is economic growth and jobs coming back. It's slow but it's positive, and that is better than no growth at all. If you care then go get the fact because what you are saying is not factual.


    People don't know anything about what Obama will do, has done, etc.
    Not true. Go check the facts to see what he has done.
    There has been numerous interviews with the public.. giving them policies that "Romney" will put into play.. these Obama supporters said those policies were not good for Americans, they dislike Romney for suggesting these types of policies, etc., and yet they were actually policies that Obama put into affect already. So, no, a lot of Americans don't agree. They just don't know $#@! either.
    No Fear, that's called politics. If one side is for it, the other side will be against it. It's no different than you saying that Obama hasn't done anything when we all know its not true. It's all politics because you just don't like the guy in the white house. Period.

    How can you claim not to care about politics but you care about who leads the country,which is a politician? Maybe you and others like you need to start caring and make your voices heard. Stop taking voting for granted. People died for that right.



    Quote Originally Posted by btbam View Post
    LOL where have you been? There are two unemployment rates. the U-3 which only details people who are looking for work and who can't find work. It classifies them as "unemployed...rightly so. This U-3 number is the number that obama likes touting. the U-6 is the real number you should pay attention to. This includes people who are looking and can't find work, people who have dropped out of the labor market after long time of unemployment and people who are working part time looking for full time work. The specific criterion that they use is that they are part time looking for full time but can't because of economic reasons. this number is at about 14.5%. Now IMO the part timers shouldn't be counted in this and economists HAVE readjusted this and the real unemployment rate which includes people looking for work who don't have a job and people who have dropped out of the labor market after long unemployment. Unemployment is north of 11% when you subtract the part timers and is 14.5% when you add in people who are underemployed.

    Now these numbers do not show a recovery at all. we aren't even creating enough jobs to keep up with population growth. that means...we are slowly stepping back!
    Not to right wingers and non supporters of Obama. What you are saying is total bullocks. If the rate is fake today then it has never been real. If that rate would of shot up to 11 or 12 you would swear that it was real.... Fake job numbers aren't gonna help Obama. If they were then it would come back and blow up in his face, but they aren't fake. The rate went back up 1/2% so that proves the numbers last month were legit.

    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    yawn... 4 days...
    I still don't think the madness will stop...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Bull$#@!. Where have you been the last 4 years? Things are better than were before. We were in two wars and had the worst economic crisis since the great depression. We were losing over 700, 000 jobs per month, wall street crisis, the housing market crash, car industry was in trouble, and much more. Come on dude. I'm not saying that things are great but anyone can see that things are better that they were in 2008. We were in a free fall. We still are losing jobs but not at the rate we were in 2008. There is economic growth and jobs coming back. It's slow but it's positive, and that is better than no growth at all. If you care then go get the fact because what you are saying is not factual.



    Not true. Go check the facts to see what he has done.

    No Fear, that's called politics. If one side is for it, the other side will be against it. It's no different than you saying that Obama hasn't done anything when we all know its not true. It's all politics because you just don't like the guy in the white house. Period.

    How can you claim not to care about politics but you care about who leads the country,which is a politician? Maybe you and others like you need to start caring and make your voices heard. Stop taking voting for granted. People died for that right.




    Not to right wingers and non supporters of Obama. What you are saying is total bullocks. If the rate is fake today then it has never been real. If that rate would of shot up to 11 or 12 you would swear that it was real.... Fake job numbers aren't gonna help Obama. If they were then it would come back and blow up in his face, but they aren't fake. The rate went back up 1/2% so that proves the numbers last month were legit.


    I still don't think the madness will stop...
    Don't start spouting hypotheticals. You have no idea how anybody would react if rates were different. I call these numbers how i see them. I don't see them as reflecting the real unemployment. You shouldn't either. That U-6 number is made by the dept. of labor. Obama just chooses to ignore it and put the U-3 on a pedestal. But like i said, the methodology is less than scientific how they generate that number and if you look back on years past the U-3 has been readjusted several months afterwards when they get the real data in. and i'm not as much saying the rate is fake as it is completely inaccurate. There is a difference. your "fake" implies conspiratorial action, but when i say they are inaccurate..it simply means they are false.

    Somebody get me a doctor, I ain't feelin' ill ...But I ain't feelin' this at all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    The unemployment rate was 10% before Obama took office and there has been over 5 million jobs created with 32 straight months of private sector growth. It could be a lot worse if the auto bailout didn't happen.
    If the auto bailout didn't happen, they would have gone into bankruptcy like many large companies have done over the decades.... things would have been just fine without it, and GM would have probably ended up a stronger company in the long run had they had a standard bankruptcy. It's commonly stated that they would not have been able to receive funding, credit markets were locked up, but that's only true to a certain extent. In Ch 11 banks and other institutions would have been much more willing to provide funding because they would have been offered protection (lenders are protected in Ch 11) along with the fact that a bankruptcy judge would have forced GM to renegotiate the terrible contracts that were ultimately retained....
    "you are both the product and the architect of your environment"


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    Quote Originally Posted by btbam View Post
    Don't start spouting hypotheticals. You have no idea how anybody would react if rates were different. I call these numbers how i see them. I don't see them as reflecting the real unemployment. You shouldn't either. That U-6 number is made by the dept. of labor. Obama just chooses to ignore it and put the U-3 on a pedestal. But like i said, the methodology is less than scientific how they generate that number and if you look back on years past the U-3 has been readjusted several months afterwards when they get the real data in. and i'm not as much saying the rate is fake as it is completely inaccurate. There is a difference. your "fake" implies conspiratorial action, but when i say they are inaccurate..it simply means they are false.
    But that's the whole thing about it. You are not an economist. Obama has no control over the job numbers they put out so why do you blame him for what the media reports. He gets the numbers a day before the labor department releases them. The media doesn't get the job numbers from the obama administration. You say the numbers are bogus but you haven't shown any proof that their wasn't 171,000 new jobs added. This whole thing is just silly. Its all a game. When the polls don't favor the republicans, they are fake, and now the job numbers are fake. Its all politics dude.


    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    If the auto bailout didn't happen, they would have gone into bankruptcy like many large companies have done over the decades.... things would have been just fine without it, and GM would have probably ended up a stronger company in the long run had they had a standard bankruptcy. It's commonly stated that they would not have been able to receive funding, credit markets were locked up, but that's only true to a certain extent. In Ch 11 banks and other institutions would have been much more willing to provide funding because they would have been offered protection (lenders are protected in Ch 11) along with the fact that a bankruptcy judge would have forced GM to renegotiate the terrible contracts that were ultimately retained....
    I don't care. All I care about is my friends and family have jobs because of the bailout. Romney was wrong. He said that if they took government funds that you can kiss the industry goodbye. Then he turns around and say he takes a lot of credit for the saving the industry.smh
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 11-03-2012 at 06:04.

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    You don't have to be an economist to interpret data. I did not say that the 171,000 jobs were not added, you're putting words in my mouth now and i won't have you distort what i say. The 171,000 jobs are real, but what i'm saying is that this unemployment rate is inaccurate! You know what the media does report on? They'll show that clip of Obama saying they created more jobs in oct. than the past 8 months. That is a true statement. But then they don't say 171,000 is not enough to keep up with population growth so we are actually sliding down. They didn't report that the unemployment dropped by .3% in september even though it did not surpass population growth then. This is simple arithmetic. You don't need to be an economist to see this. If we have job growth slower than population growth you would expect unemployment to increase. Since it dropped, you must then suspect that the U-3 number is not accurately representing unemployment. We created MORE jobs in october than september. yet the unemployment rate went up by .1%. you don't find that suspect? you don't doubt at all that this number is not good? you don't have any doubt that the number is inaccurate?

    Somebody get me a doctor, I ain't feelin' ill ...But I ain't feelin' this at all...

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    I don't care. All I care about is my friends and family have jobs because of the bailout. Romney was wrong. He said that if they took government funds that you can kiss the industry goodbye. Then he turns around and say he takes a lot of credit for the saving the industry.smh


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Bull$#@!. Where have you been the last 4 years? Things are better than were before. We were in two wars and had the worst economic crisis since the great depression. We were losing over 700, 000 jobs per month, wall street crisis, the housing market crash, car industry was in trouble, and much more. Come on dude. I'm not saying that things are great but anyone can see that things are better that they were in 2008. We were in a free fall. We still are losing jobs but not at the rate we were in 2008. There is economic growth and jobs coming back. It's slow but it's positive, and that is better than no growth at all. If you care then go get the fact because what you are saying is not factual.



    Not true. Go check the facts to see what he has done.

    No Fear, that's called politics. If one side is for it, the other side will be against it. It's no different than you saying that Obama hasn't done anything when we all know its not true. It's all politics because you just don't like the guy in the white house. Period.

    How can you claim not to care about politics but you care about who leads the country,which is a politician? Maybe you and others like you need to start caring and make your voices heard. Stop taking voting for granted. People died for that right.




    Not to right wingers and non supporters of Obama. What you are saying is total bullocks. If the rate is fake today then it has never been real. If that rate would of shot up to 11 or 12 you would swear that it was real.... Fake job numbers aren't gonna help Obama. If they were then it would come back and blow up in his face, but they aren't fake. The rate went back up 1/2% so that proves the numbers last month were legit.


    I still don't think the madness will stop...
    The only facts you have are from campaign speeches bro. Unemployment is HIGHER than it was when he took office. I mean, stop listening to the speeches and YOU go check some facts.
    He said in 2008 he'd get the rate down to 5.x%... well, he didn't do that. http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

    That shows you're full of speech facts, instead of real life facts. I mean, you keep saying that things are better, except things only LOOK better because "he's done something". Just doing things doesn't make things better.

    Gas prices are still sky high
    unemployment is still higher than four years ago
    health insurance is still going up in price (there aren't any alternatives for Americans to buy that is affordable)
    Nat'l debt increases

    So, what's not factual that I've said?




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    Just remember the future is already set, you just have to ride it out

    The path of military spending will grow by $2trillion and over sea spending will be equal or $800billion more. So get ready for the same complex for 4 years until you are bankrupt, wait you are already
    Plato and Aristotle, a detail of The School of Athens, a fresco by Raphael. Aristotle gestures to the earth, representing his belief in knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    Just remember the future is already set, you just have to ride it out

    The path of military spending will grow by $2trillion and over sea spending will be equal or $800billion more. So get ready for the same complex for 4 years until you are bankrupt, wait you are already
    No no... things are better.




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    Lmao, I guess the truth has been spoken
    Plato and Aristotle, a detail of The School of Athens, a fresco by Raphael. Aristotle gestures to the earth, representing his belief in knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    No no... things are better.
    And getting better every day.
    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.




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    So that means I can buy that golden house and dog I always wanted

    Or I could just invest in the almighty dollar
    Plato and Aristotle, a detail of The School of Athens, a fresco by Raphael. Aristotle gestures to the earth, representing his belief in knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by claud3 View Post
    So that means I can buy that golden house and dog I always wanted

    Or I could just invest in the almighty dollar
    There ya go. Invest in the new "continental". (If people don't get the reference, please Google, "first American currency".)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    There ya go. Invest in the new "continental". (If people don't get the reference, please Google, "first American currency".)
    Well Lmao... I just wonder what to invest in now
    Yes I have it, gold is the thing I want invest in. Now that China, Germany and others are building up their gold. So it's the main thing one day, everything will be bought under again
    Plato and Aristotle, a detail of The School of Athens, a fresco by Raphael. Aristotle gestures to the earth, representing his belief in knowledge

  29. #3073
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    I'm not as well-versed in the political arena as you good guys seem to be...so please bear with me.

    I'm following this thread but...it seems pretty simple that btbam is saying U-6 gives you the big picture and U-3 only gives you part of it. If that's not true, then either the extra factors U-6 include are irrelevant (which seems ridiculous) or btbam is flat out lying. I think he makes a good point, personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by weskurtz81 View Post
    If the auto bailout didn't happen, they would have gone into bankruptcy like many large companies have done over the decades.... things would have been just fine without it, and GM would have probably ended up a stronger company in the long run had they had a standard bankruptcy. It's commonly stated that they would not have been able to receive funding, credit markets were locked up, but that's only true to a certain extent. In Ch 11 banks and other institutions would have been much more willing to provide funding because they would have been offered protection (lenders are protected in Ch 11) along with the fact that a bankruptcy judge would have forced GM to renegotiate the terrible contracts that were ultimately retained....
    What about other companies that do business with GM? Like those that provide parts to them and other assets (and other things)? Seems like there would be a big ripple effect if a big company like that goes down into Ch 11. I don't know much about this stuff, though, but obviously a car company doesn't just make the cars by themselves...so with all this talk I wonder if the collateral damage to their partners losing business would be more of a disaster than just...seeing GM itself end up in better recovery position from the advantages of Ch 11 than from being bailed out. And if it isn't...why that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bio
    Yep, NGP will retail at $300. We all know it's going to happen.

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  31. #3074
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    The bailouts were not bailouts, they were sex for money and it seem to have paid off

    I can neither agree or disagree with the way the u.s government does things... as I do not live with the effects of it

    I only know that it's a situation that will come full circle and bite the u.s public on the ass and leave a nation without a blanket to keep warm
    Last edited by claud3; 11-03-2012 at 17:46.
    Plato and Aristotle, a detail of The School of Athens, a fresco by Raphael. Aristotle gestures to the earth, representing his belief in knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    The only facts you have are from campaign speeches bro. Unemployment is HIGHER than it was when he took office.
    Bull$#@!. Unemployment rate is about what it is when he got elected. More Jobs have been saved and created than the last 8 years. Go check the facts.
    I mean, stop listening to the speeches and YOU go check some facts.
    no, you need to go and find things for yourself and stop listening to people on one side.

    He said in 2008 he'd get the rate down to 5.x%... well, he didn't do that.
    http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
    yep, he did say that but he didn't, so he failed on that one. I still say he did well without any help from a broken congress who vowed from day 1 to put politics before the people and vowed not to help get anything done. But he also promised to get bin laden, tackle health care, end the war in Iraq responsibly, and pass equal pay act for women, and increase veteran benefits. He did all that and more.


    That shows you're full of speech facts, instead of real life facts. I mean, you keep saying that things are better, except things only LOOK better because "he's done something". Just doing things doesn't make things better.
    No, it just proves that i have a point because you haven't denied any of the things I said about where we were in 2008. It only shows that you just don't like the president because all the things you complain about was here before Obama took office.

    Gas prices are still sky high
    yes, but they have been going up and down for years, even before Obama took office. If you are gonna $#@! about gas then $#@! when the prices go down too.
    unemployment is still higher than four years ago
    Bull$#@!, go do some research.
    health insurance is still going up in price (there aren't any alternatives for Americans to buy that is affordable)
    More bull$#@!. Not true. Again go check the facts. What's the alternative to what the other side will do? Healthcare bill was passed by the supreme court and it was bipartisan so spread that blame around. If you don't like your insurance then you are free to change . Health insurance isn't going up for everyone. That's a lie. No one before him could get it done and that goes back to over 100 years. I'm sure everything in the bill isn't perfect but more people have healthcare today than before.


    Nat'l debt increases
    Yes it has. Did you care when it doubled under the previous president? Everyone is concerned about the debt. How we got into it is just as important as getting out.
    So, what's not factual that I've said?
    What's not factual about what i said in the previous post about where we were in 2008?


    Progress is slow in this recovery but it is indeed progress. The people will decide what is best next week. I won't change my views about the economy getting better if Romney is elected. I call it as I see it.



    What about other companies that do business with GM? Like those that provide parts to them and other assets (and other things)? Seems like there would be a big ripple effect if a big company like that goes down into Ch 11. I don't know much about this stuff, though, but obviously a car company doesn't just make the cars by themselves...so with all this talk I wonder if the collateral damage to their partners losing business would be more of a disaster than just...seeing GM itself end up in better recovery position from the advantages of Ch 11 than from being bailed out. And if it isn't...why that is.
    You are correct. The auto industry is huge when you put all the pieces together. Even in Ohio I believe 1 in 8 jobs are tied to the industry. It would of been catastrophic if they would of failed. That failure would of bled into other area outside of the auto industry.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 11-03-2012 at 16:19.

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