General Politics Thread

[claud3]

The bailouts were not bailouts, they were sex for money and it seem to have paid off

I can neither agree or disagree with the way the u.s government does things... as I do not live with the effects of it

I only know that it's a situation that will come full circle and bite the u.s public on the ass and leave a nation without a blanket to keep warm

[Sub-stance1]

The only facts you have are from campaign speeches bro. Unemployment is HIGHER than it was when he took office.

Bullshit. Unemployment rate is about what it is when he got elected. More Jobs have been saved and created than the last 8 years. Go check the facts.

I mean, stop listening to the speeches and YOU go check some facts.

no, you need to go and find things for yourself and stop listening to people on one side.

He said in 2008 he'd get the rate down to 5.x%... well, he didn't do that.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

yep, he did say that but he didn't, so he failed on that one. I still say he did well without any help from a broken congress who vowed from day 1 to put politics before the people and vowed not to help get anything done. But he also promised to get bin laden, tackle health care, end the war in Iraq responsibly, and pass equal pay act for women, and increase veteran benefits. He did all that and more.

That shows you're full of speech facts, instead of real life facts. I mean, you keep saying that things are better, except things only LOOK better because "he's done something". Just doing things doesn't make things better.

No, it just proves that i have a point because you haven't denied any of the things I said about where we were in 2008. It only shows that you just don't like the president because all the things you complain about was here before Obama took office.

Gas prices are still sky high

yes, but they have been going up and down for years, even before Obama took office. If you are gonna bitch about gas then bitch when the prices go down too.

unemployment is still higher than four years ago

Bullshit, go do some research.

health insurance is still going up in price (there aren't any alternatives for Americans to buy that is affordable)

More bullshit. Not true. Again go check the facts. What's the alternative to what the other side will do? Healthcare bill was passed by the supreme court and it was bipartisan so spread that blame around. If you don't like your insurance then you are free to change . Health insurance isn't going up for everyone. That's a lie. No one before him could get it done and that goes back to over 100 years. I'm sure everything in the bill isn't perfect but more people have healthcare today than before.

Nat'l debt increases

Yes it has. Did you care when it doubled under the previous president? Everyone is concerned about the debt. How we got into it is just as important as getting out.

So, what's not factual that I've said?

What's not factual about what i said in the previous post about where we were in 2008?


Progress is slow in this recovery but it is indeed progress. The people will decide what is best next week. I won't change my views about the economy getting better if Romney is elected. I call it as I see it.

What about other companies that do business with GM? Like those that provide parts to them and other assets (and other things)? Seems like there would be a big ripple effect if a big company like that goes down into Ch 11. I don't know much about this stuff, though, but obviously a car company doesn't just make the cars by themselves...so with all this talk I wonder if the collateral damage to their partners losing business would be more of a disaster than just...seeing GM itself end up in better recovery position from the advantages of Ch 11 than from being bailed out. And if it isn't...why that is.

You are correct. The auto industry is huge when you put all the pieces together. Even in Ohio I believe 1 in 8 jobs are tied to the industry. It would of been catastrophic if they would of failed. That failure would of bled into other area outside of the auto industry.

[Bigdoggy]

I'm not as well-versed in the political arena as you good guys seem to be...so please bear with me.

I'm following this thread but...it seems pretty simple that btbam is saying U-6 gives you the big picture and U-3 only gives you part of it. If that's not true, then either the extra factors U-6 include are irrelevant (which seems ridiculous) or btbam is flat out lying. I think he makes a good point, personally.



What about other companies that do business with GM? Like those that provide parts to them and other assets (and other things)? Seems like there would be a big ripple effect if a big company like that goes down into Ch 11. I don't know much about this stuff, though, but obviously a car company doesn't just make the cars by themselves...so with all this talk I wonder if the collateral damage to their partners losing business would be more of a disaster than just...seeing GM itself end up in better recovery position from the advantages of Ch 11 than from being bailed out. And if it isn't...why that is.

whenever you bailout a company, the bubble doesn't burst. what happens is a little air gets let out but then it increases in size (debt). People may think it helps but it doesn't help, instead it lengthens the problem even more. Since we have money that is based on absolutely nothing (fiat currency system) with it not attached to anything valueable, the recessions are going to be a lot worse since our money is worthless, which is why bailing out a company will only make it worse. bailing out GM didn't do anything, yes it saved jobs but it created more of a debt and made a longer recession. as well as bailing out banks and other corporations.

Fiat currency system - banks and pointless loans - housing market collapse - recession - bailouts/stimulus - current foreign policy - non-regulated federal reserve

these are all problems that still have yet to be taken care of and when adding all these together are reasons we are currently in the shit. This is where the Fiat money system is gleaming like a black light from hell. it shows that this system is incapable of fluctuating but instead creates a nonstop inflation. so because our money isn't worth nearly what it use to be, it's never going back to what we had. we will never see a fluctuation, the stock market will never see it either. our current money system is basically fucked.

all of this ends up being called "demand" without demand we get constant inflation which is what you are seeing, without demand people stop buying or the buying becomes slower because of the inflation. that is just how it is. LOL

However, don't let this election fool you. the usa will be partially screwed regardless who is president. be it Romney or Obama, both of them are idiots wrapped in a moron.

[Sub-stance1]

whenever you bailout a company, the bubble doesn't burst. what happens is a little air gets let out but then it increases in size (debt). People may think it helps but it doesn't help, instead it lengthens the problem even more. Since we have money that is based on absolutely nothing (fiat currency system) with it not attached to anything valueable, the recessions are going to be a lot worse since our money is worthless, which is why bailing out a company will only make it worse. bailing out GM didn't do anything, yes it saved jobs but it created more of a debt and made a longer recession. as well as bailing out banks and other corporations.

Bullshit. Bailing out GM didn't make the recession longer. It saved jobs and allowed people to spend money on the economy which is a good thing.

However, don't let this election fool you. the usa will be partially screwed regardless who is president. be it Romney or Obama, both of them are idiots wrapped in a moron.

I wouldn't call anyone who can get elected to president an idiot. The thing that hurts us the most is when they play politics and put that before the people. No issue is too difficult to solve if they would just work together.

[Bigdoggy]

Bullshit. Bailing out GM didn't make the recession longer. It saved jobs and allowed people to spend money on the economy which is a good thing.






I wouldn't call anyone who can get elected to president an idiot. The thing that hurts us the most is when they play politics and put that before the people. No issue is too difficult to solve if they would just work together.

don't take this the wrong way substance, but it's clear what I am discussing is so far over your head. again you are repeating what you always say, their is absolutely no detailing in your debates, they are quite bland and very pointless because you aren't backing anything up, you are echoing what you read in internet articles of what was most likely said by Obama or Pelosi for pete sakes.

I can already tell you clearly haven't lived long enough to even grasp what is happening nor do you understand what a recession is and how it should be dealt with.

you wouldn't call anyone president an idiot or a moron, but welcome to the real world, some people in this world are idiots and morons, just like Obama AND Romney. it's life, deal with it. idiots and morons are very real and they are on the NEWS everyday.

[F34R]

LOL. So I post the figures from unemployment that backs up the fact that it isn't lower than the first year of his term... the rest of that reply you had was rhetorical nonsense to say the least lol. No need to reply to me, I've put you on ignore.

[Bigdoggy]

LOL. So I post the figures from unemployment that backs up the fact that it isn't lower than the first year of his term... the rest of that reply you had was rhetorical nonsense to say the least lol. No need to reply to me, I've put you on ignore.

lol he does that, all he does is echo what someone says and he keeps repeating it over and over again. there isn't a point in actually debating him on a subject, just keep pointing out his debate skills is good enough. he's a 100% democrat, even with proven proof he will still think it's wrong, even if it's a fact.

[claud3]

the unemployment is unbelievable low and it's a 8.5% i think not entirely sure that is right... But this is the killer

People still believe in the possibility that things will turn around in four years. It took 2 years from 2007 to 2008 for the housing bubble to burst completely

and that left a black hole of no were to go... To this day, many should question the reality they leave in and get the facts before squashing the facts that are real and proven to be from the real news

NOT FOX, CNBC, CNN or other political paid media outlets... If you want answer look beyond these political media outlets

they say the u.s.a is in growth, bullshit

If the rates stay at 0.01% that sends in speculators, that believe in feeding lies and pushing the Artificial stockmarket into believing all great and so the GDP which is Artificial to, to be a false growth and the media like cnbc, cnn, fox

tells the people the economy is growing, their for the government is doing their job and puts a false belief in the minds of local citizens...

So you are always feed bullshit 24/7 and never actually get the facts... So you look at you're real economy and see that it will not grow. Unless the Artificial interest rates stay low and speculators are still speculating on how you're economy is

i am no expert... But this is truth to the best i know it

[Bio]

Makes sense, Bigdoggy. Thanks for the clarification.

This makes me curious about the consequences of the surrounding businesses, though, and how that relates, if at all, to all this talk about trying to keep American business moving and to depend less on overseas where we hand them our jobs. Did bailing out GM, an American company, do little in that regard as well? If GM's supporting businesses went under along with GM, what would have been the logical next phase for them during/after their recovery (work with another car company, I suppose?)? Also, do the profits those businesses make from working with GM compare at all to the amount of extra debt GM got from the bailout?

I don't mean to derail the thread. I think this is the last I'll ask on this particular subject.

[claud3]

it's amazing that china and russia is an enemy and yet the u.s still invests in them...

They hand jobs to the chinese and the chinese owns around $2 to $3 trillion u.s.a debt... But they want to destroy the very country that they are owning debt for them... It makes no sense

and it's the u.s government that is giving the jobs to the chinese and investing... Plus they invest in russia and they say that's their biggest enemy in terms of placement in the world

[weskurtz81]

What about other companies that do business with GM? Like those that provide parts to them and other assets (and other things)? Seems like there would be a big ripple effect if a big company like that goes down into Ch 11. I don't know much about this stuff, though, but obviously a car company doesn't just make the cars by themselves...so with all this talk I wonder if the collateral damage to their partners losing business would be more of a disaster than just...seeing GM itself end up in better recovery position from the advantages of Ch 11 than from being bailed out. And if it isn't...why that is.

Without understanding how Ch11 bankruptcy actually works, its pretty clear there are some people in here that really don't have any idea how it actually works, you can't understand what impact it will have.

If GM would have gone in Ch 11 bankruptcy, they would have continued operating, they would not have just shut their doors and gone away. So, now that we understand they wouldn't have gone anywhere after going into bankruptcy, the next argument is "well, no one would have loaned them any money".... sure they would have! No one would have loaned them money BEFORE they entered Ch 11, but after going into Ch 11 they certainly would have as lenders are protected when they loan money to bankrupt companies...

[DayWalker]

I still don't think the madness will stop...

still amused by the fact that there are literally no Pro-Mit posts.
It's all about Obama.

And yet they can't provide a viable alternative to run against him.

Obama will win Tuesday. With ~300 electoral votes.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

And I can almost guarantee that the conservative response will be: "well maybe we just weren't crazy enough"
And in 2016 they'll run a neo-con like Santorum and get whooped by Hill-Dawg or Biden or whatever moderate liberal steps up...

... and the cycle will repeat itself.

2016: the search for the mythical fiscal conservative who isn't a social issue nazi continues...

[claud3]

put in big bird and he will win

[weskurtz81]

still amused by the fact that there are literally no Pro-Mit posts.
It's all about Obama.

You must have missed them, I've posted some of the pros of Romney from my point of view.... But, then again, they don't fit _your_ view of reality so I'm sure they are easy to miss.

[claud3]

[DayWalker]

You must have missed them, I've posted some of the pros of Romney from my point of view.... But, then again, they don't fit _your_ view of reality so I'm sure they are easy to miss.

even you aren't a fan of mit wes.
you really only like that he's not Obama. fess up.

[weskurtz81]

even you aren't a fan of mit wes.
you really only like that he's not Obama. fess up.

There are certainly candidates that I think would be better than BOTH men currently running, are you telling me you don't feel the same way?

[claud3]

the 3rd party candidates are being left in the cold and that is what's wrong as well

Got this link

http://rt.com/usa/news/rt-third-party-debate-stein-249/

For the the 3rd part debate on 5th November. It's also on YouTube.com/rt

[Sub-stance1]

don't take this the wrong way substance, but it's clear what I am discussing is so far over your head. again you are repeating what you always say, their is absolutely no detailing in your debates, they are quite bland and very pointless because you aren't backing anything up, you are echoing what you read in internet articles of what was most likely said by Obama or Pelosi for pete sakes.

I don't take anything on theses forums that serious but what you said isn't true. The bailout didn't make the recession longer.

I can already tell you clearly haven't lived long enough to even grasp what is happening nor do you understand what a recession is and how it should be dealt with.

I know what's going on and I know some of the reasons we are where we are. I also can tell when partisan politics are at play.

[you wouldn't call anyone president an idiot or a moron, but welcome to the real world, some people in this world are idiots and morons, just like Obama AND Romney. it's life, deal with it. idiots and morons are very real and they are on the NEWS everyday.

You are right. The world is filled with idiots. If they could fly the the sky would be like an airport. Just because you disagree with a policy or don't like a person doesn't make them or any of us any smarter.

lol he does that, all he does is echo what someone says and he keeps repeating it over and over again. there isn't a point in actually debating him on a subject, just keep pointing out his debate skills is good enough. he's a 100% democrat, even with proven proof he will still think it's wrong, even if it's a fact.

Like who? What i'm saying can be backed up by facts. Now, you saying the bailout made the recession longer is basically regurgitating what is said by right wing media. As for being a democrat, I don't belong to that party nor the other one. I just don't hate the president as much as you and some others do, but i do support him over the other candidate. I don't support Mitt because he has changed his stances on important issues way too much for me. He isn't very clear on much either. Also, the state he governed doesn't support him. I still think he is struggling to win his home state too. Plus his foreign policy views are just all over the place.

The republican party has gone through some big changes. Most of them are not beneficial to the party. Anyone following politics can see that.

LOL. So I post the figures from unemployment that backs up the fact that it isn't lower than the first year of his term... the rest of that reply you had was rhetorical nonsense to say the least lol. No need to reply to me, I've put you on ignore.

All you've done is post all the bad things you don't like about the president. Most of it is not even true. You only proved that you care about partisan politics. President Obama is far from perfect, but anyone who can say that the president hasn't done one good thing for this country is just being partisan. Far from the demon that some make him out to be. That's the plain truth. And to think, all this stuff is coming from someone who doesn't vote, or even care to vote, but claims he cares about the country. You did what a lot of people have done this election cycle, which is jump on the negative bandwagon of partisan politics.

even you aren't a fan of mit wes.
you really only like that he's not Obama. fess up.

I think that is true for a lot of people in the country. Its not that they like Romney, its that they don't like Obama.

Makes sense, Bigdoggy. Thanks for the clarification.

This makes me curious about the consequences of the surrounding businesses, though, and how that relates, if at all, to all this talk about trying to keep American business moving and to depend less on overseas where we hand them our jobs. Did bailing out GM, an American company, do little in that regard as well? If GM's supporting businesses went under along with GM, what would have been the logical next phase for them during/after their recovery (work with another car company, I suppose?)? Also, do the profits those businesses make from working with GM compare at all to the amount of extra debt GM got from the bailout?

I don't mean to derail the thread. I think this is the last I'll ask on this particular subject.

It's mostly partisan politics dude. This whole bailout thing started under the Bush administration. Conservatives weren't as against it then. Stimulus packages were sign by the administration before and now they are making a big deal about it just because it's the other side. Its all politics because both want someone from their party in the white house when we get back on our feet. That way they can say "look what we did". They use things like fear to get votes. They have been doing it for years.

[claud3]

see people not paying attention to the 3rd party of candidates that can have an impact

[weskurtz81]

Does ANYONE honestly feel either of these candidates are the best available? Seriously?

[DayWalker]

There are certainly candidates that I think would be better than BOTH men currently running, are you telling me you don't feel the same way?

I love Obama. But you know that. That said... i can admit that he hasn't been perfect. But he's done a great job in my opinion. And the alternative doesn't hold a candle to him.

While I am happy that he will be re-elected, I am kinda sad that this will likely be the last time I vote for a democrat for a long time.

...instead I'll have to revert to voting against evangelicals/neo-cons/kooky conservatives.

The GOP primary dooms any chance of me voting GOP b/c of the rhetoric they are forced to use to appease their base.

See Huntsman. The dude was a solid candidate who didn't get a shot b/c he simply wasn't crazy enough.

see people not paying attention to the 3rd party of candidates that can have an impact

any and every 3rd party platform that gains traction is quickly absorbed by one or both of the 2 major parties. They don't stand a chance.

Look at the tea party. At its roots it was a protest about government spending and the national deficit.
It was quickly co-opt by the republicans and angry neo-cons/evangelicals/kooks who were just upset about being out of power, or that the president was black/democratic/pro choice/muslim/kenyan- and they rode that wave into the 2010 election.

3rd parties have no chance until the electorate gets smarter.
And the electorate is fucking retarded.

[Sub-stance1]

.



See Huntsman. The dude was a solid candidate who didn't get a shot b/c he simply wasn't crazy enough.

This is so true. He was the only one out of that bunch who was acting presidential. The guy was a solid candidate who has foreign policy experience. So what does the republican party do. He worked for the Obama administration and his party held that against him. He didn't have a chance because he wasn't out there doing all the name calling the other candidates were doing. He reached across party lines and worked for the other party and they held that against him. I wanted to see more of him . (plus his daughter Abby is fucking smoking hot) He is a guy that I would of considered voting for. Instead the republican party chose people like Newt Gingrich over him. It blows my mind.

[DayWalker]

his daughter was scorching hot...

[weskurtz81]

I love Obama. But you know that. That said... i can admit that he hasn't been perfect. But he's done a great job in my opinion. And the alternative doesn't hold a candle to him.

Yeah, I know you "love" Obama, but that's not what I asked. I asked if you thought it was likely that there's someone better for the job.