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  1. #3726
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    I'm not an American, but am Canadian, so would the American's here please inform me why it seems almost all Americans tend to hate the government? I know it is a stereotype but it seems that no matter what the government tries to do, good or bad, they are branded as evil. All countries have problems with governments but it just seems from an outsiders point of view that Americans would rather there be no government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmigaEngine View Post
    personally dont believe there is another agenda.

    The young man responsible for the murders in Newtown obviously had some issues but when he snapped and decided to do what he did there was 5 guns (none of which he owned) to choose from and he chose 2 semiautomatic rifles and 1 semi automatic pistol instead of a shotgun or bolt action rifle both of which I would consider more sportsmen or hunting guns. That is the reason behind all of this imo, had he only had the bolt action rifle or shotgun there would not have been nearly the blood shed.

    This chart says alot


    think there might be a connection with the fact that the US has more people living in prison than the rest of these countries also ?
    1 AR15, 2 semiautomatic pistols and the shotgun in the car trunk.

    And it wouldn't have mattered what weapon he used because elementary kids can't fight back.

    In fact using a bolt action rifle or shotgun would have been worse since he would not have to shoot the kids multiple times like he ended up doing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    I'm not an American, but am Canadian, so would the American's here please inform me why it seems almost all Americans tend to hate the government? I know it is a stereotype but it seems that no matter what the government tries to do, good or bad, they are branded as evil. All countries have problems with governments but it just seems from an outsiders point of view that Americans would rather there be no government.
    Federal government. There isn't as much of an issue with state/local (county, city) governments.

    But basically we would like to be free to do as we please with less government interference.

    Just look at why we fought the revolutionary war and the founding years of the USA to see why we hold these views. Nevermind more recent history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Well looks like you just answered your question.
    not really... pretty weak reason.

    according to polling, the large majority of NRA housholds support the idea... so there's hope

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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    not really... pretty weak reason.

    according to polling, the large majority of NRA housholds support the idea... so there's hope
    Well since you won't consider any kind of inconvenience to gun owners a valid reason there isn't much point in asking that question.

    Also the percentage numbers the media throws out about NRA members supporting X are bull$#@!.

    They "survey" was done by mayors against illegal guns and is highly suspect.

    They didn't release the questions they asked or described how they checked that the person surveyed was a real NRA member. Also they could always selectively exclude certain members responses they didn't like, and include the responses of those they did.


    The main point is pretty much all the "recommendations" by biden to obama on gun control are BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmigaEngine View Post
    This chart says alot
    That's a meaningless statistic. It doesn't matter how guns affect gun-related violent crime. It matters how guns affect ALL violent crime.

    For example, America's violent crime has been going down the last 20 years, while gun laws have been getting less stringent (until now). UK violent crime has been going up and is now much, much, much higher than the US.

    Does this prove that guns equal less crime? Not necessarily. But it shows they don't equal more crime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    ... its like you're begging him to go even bigger on gun control???
    Logic fail.

    Personally- gang violence, while stupid, doesn't really bother me. Dumb thugs killing other dumb thugs. But that might just be b/c I don't live in an area where its really a problem and I don't see the collateral damage.

    All for suggestions on how to deal with it though.

    Universal background checks- still haven't heard a valid arguments as to why those are bad...
    Blah blah blah they might inconvenience law abiding gun owners... nobody cares. Wait your 6-8 weeks and be confident that felons and loons aren't "legally" buying your gun
    The problem is for the most part about funds. The current background check system, gun laws, mental health support/reporting, etc. would be much more effective if they had the necessary funds(instead of constantly cut). These new laws will run into the same problems. What's next after these law fail to stop the next mass shooting?

    Same for gang violence. If police and others had the necessary funding and support needed I am sure it would go a lot further in helping than these new laws.

    Instead of wasting money on researching violent media (which has already been researched many times over), they should be using the money to support current laws and improving mental health support.

  8. #3732
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    Generally Republicans are much more religious, so you're just more likely, statically, to get the crazy people there. It's really unsettling how we have people in positions of power in this nation who are so blatantly deluded to reality. It's not just the Republicans, but the federal Government too. Predominately you have a bunch of old and white, over-religious males running the show.

    The GOP is becoming exceedingly backwards, though. I'm happy that people are finally realizing what a joke they are.


    Edit: There was a huge post that this was a response to, but it seems to have been mysteriously deleted. Hm.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 01-19-2013 at 07:44.
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    Ixion is right, the only meaningful statistic worth looking at is net (violent) crimes, not ones specifically relating to firearms. That's nonsensical.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Well since you won't consider any kind of inconvenience to gun owners a valid reason there isn't much point in asking that question.

    Also the percentage numbers the media throws out about NRA members supporting X are bull$#@!.

    They "survey" was done by mayors against illegal guns and is highly suspect.

    They didn't release the questions they asked or described how they checked that the person surveyed was a real NRA member. Also they could always selectively exclude certain members responses they didn't like, and include the responses of those they did.


    The main point is pretty much all the "recommendations" by biden to obama on gun control are BS.
    while I don't advocate taking polls as absolute fact...

    didn't y'all try the whole "the polling is bias and inaccurate" routine leading up to November???

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryunosuke View Post
    The problem is for the most part about funds. The current background check system, gun laws, mental health support/reporting, etc. would be much more effective if they had the necessary funds(instead of constantly cut). These new laws will run into the same problems. What's next after these law fail to stop the next mass shooting?

    Same for gang violence. If police and others had the necessary funding and support needed I am sure it would go a lot further in helping than these new laws.

    Instead of wasting money on researching violent media (which has already been researched many times over), they should be using the money to support current laws and improving mental health support.
    a sensible post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Generally Republicans are much more religious, so you're just more likely, statically, to get the crazy people there. It's really unsettling how we have people in positions of power in this nation who are so blatantly deluded to reality. It's not just the Republicans, but the federal Government too. Predominately you have a bunch of old and white, over-religious males running the show.

    The GOP is becoming exceedingly backwards, though. I'm happy that people are finally realizing what a joke they are.


    Edit: There was a huge post that this was a response to, but it seems to have been mysteriously deleted. Hm.
    ditto.
    Last edited by DayWalker; 01-19-2013 at 16:27.

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  11. #3735
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    while I don't advocate taking polls as absolute fact...

    didn't y'all try the whole "the polling is bias and inaccurate" routine leading up to November???



    a sensible post.



    ditto.
    There is no y'all. I'm a libertarian so that is far from the typical republican establishment. And they ignored multiple polls from multiple sources over a period of several months.

    You are hinging your bet on 1 poll done by 1 institution (with a significant bias) at 1 point in time (pretty sure it was before sandy hook) with undisclosed survey methods.

    Good luck with that.

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    most libertarians are just temporarily disillusioned republicans...

    especially after a democratic victory

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  13. #3737
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    most libertarians are just temporarily disillusioned republicans...

    especially after a democratic victory
    Well you are clearly demonstrating your lack of knowledge.

    Am I supposed to say that independents (that aren't libertarians) are just disillusioned democrats (temporarily or permanently)

    Pretty dumb generalizations.

    And don't get $#@!y, Obama and company can screw up a lot between now and 2014.

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    Said it before, will say it again. I'm a Libertarian ideologically and a registered independent. Yea, I'm an ex Republican\Conservative but that's because I "woke up" after some self actualization a bit ago.


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  16. #3739
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Well you are clearly demonstrating your lack of knowledge.
    nope. perhaps you're just naive to reality?

    Am I supposed to say that independents (that aren't libertarians) are just disillusioned democrats (temporarily or permanently)
    you wouldn't be that far off if you did.


    And don't get $#@!y, Obama and company can screw up a lot between now and 2014.
    As can the GOP...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    nope. perhaps you're just naive to reality?



    you wouldn't be that far off if you did.




    As can the GOP...
    Well most republicans and libertarians have fundamentally different views on social policy and conflicting views regarding certain economic policy issues. It is not so simple to just swing from one group to the other. Once you adopt libertarian views it is rather difficult to renege on them and go back to the standard republican/conservative positions.

    What you should ask is why libertarians tend to support R candidates when they have to/do choose from the 2 parties rather than D candidates.


    And in case you hadn't noticed the republican party has been screwing up since 2010 (regarding congress). They can't really mess up much more and I doubt they will continue to hover in the same place for 2 more years.

    However, there could be a significant void in the democratic party after obama is done which could cause issues since most democrats simply assume the president in 2016 will be a democrat (essentially by default). It doesn't help that you guys tend to cling to the foolish idea that Hillary will give a damn about politics at that point to try again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    most libertarians are just temporarily disillusioned republicans...

    especially after a democratic victory
    Another example of intellectual dishonesty from you. You keep making my point for me. You'd think after several posts, you'd at least try to hide it.

    Anyway, libertarians are far from "temporarily disillusioned republicans". We're disillusioned from the whole establishment and don't trust anything it has to say. We value our freedoms far more than you establishment folks ever will and are unwilling to sacrifice any of them for any amount of security.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post

    And don't get $#@!y, Obama and company can screw up a lot between now and 2014.
    You spelled will wrong.
    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.




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    Thought this thread would be closed by now..lol I had the privilege of attending the presidential inauguration and it was awesome. Just think, it was the second inauguration of a black president on MLK day. I was glad to be a part of such a historical day that I will never forget.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Thought this thread would be closed by now..lol I had the privilege of attending the presidential inauguration and it was awesome. Just think, it was the second inauguration of a black president on MLK day. I was glad to be a part of such a historical day that I will never forget.
    well they did change it to a "general politics" thread. Considering the participation now idk if its even necessary but i guess it is a convenient catch-all for politically charged news stories as opposed to having separate threads for everything. Take it or leave it meh...

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  22. #3745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Another example of intellectual dishonesty from you. You keep making my point for me. You'd think after several posts, you'd at least try to hide it.

    Anyway, libertarians are far from "temporarily disillusioned republicans". We're disillusioned from the whole establishment and don't trust anything it has to say. We value our freedoms far more than you establishment folks ever will and are unwilling to sacrifice any of them for any amount of security.
    until you start using that term properly... although I find it entertaining... there's really nothing more to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Thought this thread would be closed by now..lol I had the privilege of attending the presidential inauguration and it was awesome. Just think, it was the second inauguration of a black president on MLK day. I was glad to be a part of such a historical day that I will never forget.
    Sweet man- did you make it to any or the parties?

    I saw Alecia Keys perform last night... ugh she's a fn 15 out of 10...


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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post

    Sweet man- did you make it to any or the parties?

    I saw Alecia Keys perform last night... ugh she's a fn 15 out of 10...

    Nope...I wish i did. I was with the GF and she wanted to leave because we had an early flight back home.( i think she was wimping out because of the weather...lol) Holy $#@!, there were so many people there though. It was awesome because we met so many cool people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Holy $#@!, there were so many people there though. It was awesome because we met so many cool people.
    I would have expected them all to be stupid, not cool. After all, they did support this abhorrent man after an abysmal first term, and elected him to $#@! even more things up for the next four years.

    "Birds of a feather..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    until you start using that term properly... although I find it entertaining... there's really nothing more to say.
    The term was used properly. You're the one engaging in it, not me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickenooble View Post
    I would have expected them all to be stupid, not cool. After all, they did support this abhorrent man after an abysmal first term, and elected him to $#@! even more things up for the next four years.

    "Birds of a feather..."
    I don't now. I wasn't there to ask people who they voted for. If his first term was as abysmal as some of you claim, then Romney would of been the man speaking on that stage. The American people chose him and I can live with that. Time to move on, from all this demonizing and just repeating things you have heard. I'm 100% sure people from all parties were there. It wasn't just a democratic event.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I don't now. I wasn't there to ask people who they voted for. If his first term was as abysmal as some of you claim, then Romney would of been the man speaking on that stage. The American people chose him and I can live with that. Time to move on, from all this demonizing and just repeating things you have heard. I'm 100% sure people from all parties were there. It wasn't just a democratic event.
    You could say the same thing about Bush II.

    Fact is the people have a poor voting record (presidential in this case) over the past 12 years.

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