General Politics Thread

[DayWalker]

When have I ever towed that retarded line about 47% not paying taxes? Oh, that right. I never have, not once. But keep trying. I'm sure you'll find nothing to throw at me as per the usual. And to be frank I've pointed out several instances of you being intellectually dishonest in the past and with the proof to back it up. The fact that you can't recognize when you're properly being called out speaks volumes about you. Or maybe you do which is why you deflect with "he doesn't know the definition". Here's a good piece for you to mull over.

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?IntellectualDishonesty

When did I say that you "towed the 47% line"???

seriously man your reading comprehension and debate skills are embarrassing. And I'm not even joking. Its sad.
You are yet to provide even an arguable instance of me being intellectually dishonest... b/c you don't know the definition. Period. You're like a 6 year old who learned a new term and just walks around using it at random

you're an embarrassment to anyone who's ever claimed to be a Libertarian.
Please. PLEASE. look up the term and use it properly. Or don't- cuz I laugh my ass off everytime you try to use it.

#micdrop

[Morganator]

When did I say that you "towed the 47% line"???

seriously man your reading comprehension and debate skills are embarrassing. And I'm not even joking. Its sad.
You are yet to provide even an arguable instance of me being intellectually dishonest... b/c you don't know the definition. Period. You're like a 6 year old who learned a new term and just walks around using it at random

you're an embarrassment to anyone who's ever claimed to be a Libertarian.
Please. PLEASE. look up the term and use it properly. Or don't- cuz I laugh my ass off everytime you try to use it.

#micdrop

So you don't remember referencing me at all when you made that comment?

PS- that 47% don't pay taxes line that always gets thrown out there is so tired and played out...

where's Mr. Intellectual Dishonestly when you need him???
oh thats right he doesn't know the definition and thus doesn't recognize it.

Yeah. And I'm somehow "like a 6 year old who learned a new term and just walks around using it at random", right?

So you never referenced me at all? Take a good look.

By the way, you may wish to read the definition of Intellectual Dishonesty.

Intellectual dishonesty is the advocacy of a position known to be false. An argument which is misused to advance an agenda or to reinforce one's deeply held beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence contrary.

So you've never, not once, in this thread, advocated stimulus spending, foreign interventionism, more government control in education or other positions which are invariably counter to Article 1, 2 or 3 of the constitution?

[Sub-stance1]

LOL, of course you dismiss people not toting the party line, comrade.

We've heard it all before with the 2nd amendment fears. Go look at how many Americans support tougher gun laws. Putting a couple of black faces out in front won't change anything regardless of the party they represent. The republican party already tried that one and it didn't work.

[Vulgotha]

We've heard it all before with the 2nd amendment fears. Go look at how many Americans support tougher gun laws. Putting a couple of black faces out in front won't change anything regardless of the party they represent. The republican party already tried that one and it didn't work.

Actually the majority of Americans only really favor background checks, and nothing else. Anything attempting to reach past this will only end in dismal failure.


Though frankly even heightened background checks will accomplish nothing.

[Sub-stance1]

Actually the majority of Americans only really favor background checks, and nothing else. Anything attempting to reach past this will only end in dismal failure.


Though frankly even heightened background checks will accomplish nothing.

Not true. Some polls show that they also support a ban on some military styled assault weapons too but not as high as the background checks. Either way there is support and opposition on both sides. The video he showed was really pointless. It's not that shocking that blacks don't agree with Obama on everything.

[MATRIX 2]

We've heard it all before with the 2nd amendment fears. Go look at how many Americans support tougher gun laws. Putting a couple of black faces out in front won't change anything regardless of the party they represent. The republican party already tried that one and it didn't work.

Please tell me how many Americans actually understand the existing gun laws/guns in gneral and don't get all their information about guns from the mainstream media or other biased sources.

Then tell me what amount of those americans "support tougher gun laws".

I'm willing to bet it would be a minimal amount.

And putting out a few black faces won't work. You are actually right about that. As long as people continue to be underhand racists or play off of perceived racism and prejudice it won't.

Just look at the backlash over the NRA's new black spokesperson. No no we can't have a colored/minority spokesperson in the NRA, we have to maintain the image of the NRA as compromised of angry heterosexual white males (almost universally christian) hostile to anybody that is different from them. That is what the msm/liberals are trying to do.

And I did post a video clearly showing the true intent of Feinstein. So it does have a basis.

I'm sure your Fudd guns will be safe, for a little bit at least.

Not true. Some polls show that they also support a ban on some military styled assault weapons too but not as high as the background checks. Either way there is support and opposition on both sides. The video he showed was really pointless. It's not that shocking that blacks don't agree with Obama on everything.

The polls you cling to are pointless when the people that are polled are so uninformed or worse misinformed about guns and current gun laws.

Also I supposed its fine for the media to report about another black/colored/minority person going on an antigun rant when it adds nothing new to the "discussion". But if they dare go against the antigun sentiment, it is completely pointless?

[Sub-stance1]

Please tell me how many Americans actually understand the existing gun laws/guns in gneral and don't get all their information about guns from the mainstream media or other biased sources.

lol..what... So now the excuse is that they don't understand because of where they get information. Biased sources? The polls are always wrong right?

Then tell me what amount of those americans "support tougher gun laws"

I'm willing to bet it would be a minimal amount.

The survey, from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, found that 89 percent of people support background checksfor all gun sales, 69 percent support a ban on the sale of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons and 68 percent support a ban on the sale of large-capacity ammunition magazines
http://www.wbtw.com/story/20753650/p...ugher-gun-laws.

That's just one poll but there are plenty more out there. .........but then again most right wingers will say the polls are wrong because it doesn't lean their way. Isn't that the way it goes? Isn't that what they said about Obama being ahead in the election polls?

And putting out a few black faces won't work. You are actually right about that. As long as people continue to be underhand racists or play off of perceived racism and prejudice it won't.

Then we agree on that. Just don't do it to win support for an election or anything else. We know who is guilty of that. We know what party minorities shy away from and it's pretty obvious why.

Just look at the backlash over the NRA's new black spokesperson. No no we can't have a colored/minority spokesperson in the NRA, we have to maintain the image of the NRA as compromised of angry heterosexual white males (almost universally christian) hostile to anybody that is different from them. That is what the msm/liberals are trying to do.

What backlash? I don't think people really care what face they stick out there. The NRA doesn't care about anything but gun manufactures. Just listen to their speeches and you can clearly see that. Fear mongering is their specialty.

The polls you cling to are pointless when the people that are polled are so uninformed or worse misinformed about guns and current gun laws.

Not as uniformed as you think though. People are well informed about what's going on with that just like they were with the last election. They aren't as stupid as some think.

Also I supposed its fine for the media to report about another black/colored/minority person going on an antigun rant when it adds nothing new to the "discussion". But if they dare go against the antigun sentiment, it is completely pointless?

There is no antigun sentiment. It's just more stuff being regurgitated over and over again. Its the same old stuff they tried with other issues and it's gonna fail just like all the other antics. The good thing is that some people are waking up and getting the facts and not believing all the scare tactics.

[MATRIX 2]

lol..what... So now the excuse is that they don't understand because of where they get information. Biased sources? The polls are always wrong right?





That's just one poll but there are plenty more out there. .........but then again most right wingers will say the polls are wrong because it doesn't lean their way. Isn't that the way it goes? Isn't that what they said about Obama being ahead in the election polls?



Then we agree on that. Just don't do it to win support for an election or anything else. We know who is guilty of that. We know what party minorities shy away from and it's pretty obvious why.



What backlash? I don't think people really care what face they stick out there. The NRA doesn't care about anything but gun manufactures. Just listen to their speeches and you can clearly see that. Fear mongering is their specialty.





Not as uniformed as you think though. People are well informed about what's going on with that just like they were with the last election. They aren't as stupid as some think.



There is no antigun sentiment. It's just more stuff being regurgitated over and over again. Its the same old stuff they tried with other issues and it's gonna fail just like all the other antics. The good thing is that some people are waking up and getting the facts and not believing all the scare tactics.

I'm starting to think that you are truly hopeless.

Are you really going to act like the Media hasn't been blasting the airwaves with antigun news segments.

Or trying to mislead people in various ways.

Don't act stupid, you know the general public is clueless on these matters. And the media does nothing to change their ignorance, in fact it increases it even further.

Go ahead an ask any civilian what an assault rifle (not weapon which a bs media term) is? I'd be surprised if even 10% could tell you what features constitute a true assault trifle. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Never mind asking them about the current gun laws or what the supposed "gun show loophole is"

This has fuck all to do with polls about the 2012 election, if you can't even comprehend the difference there is no point in further conversing with you. But go ahead and continue to use that example in cases where it is completely irrelevant. It only serves to further highlight how out of touch you are with whatever the current conversation is about.

You are a fool if you think the race/prejudice tactics are only used by one side. Democrats have been perpetrating those tactics since at least the time of LBJ. (if not earlier)


here is but an example of the backlash over it:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywo...ican-Spokesman

Keep on toting the line that the NRA is all about the manufacturers and fearmongering. I gave you clear evidence showing how their fears are not misplaced and you refused to even acknowledge it (never mind accepting it).

You also never answered several questions I asked you earlier, why is that? So scared of admitting the truth?

I'm sure those manufacturers also created several hundred thousand new NRA members out of thin air over the past few months, right?

And if you think the NRA is on a tangent by itself you clearly haven't been looking at what the other 2nd amendment groups have been saying (Gun owners of america- Larry Pratt), (Second amendment foundation - Alan Gottlieb) or any individual with any significance in the gun industry.

Keep on living in ignorance, and pray it serves you well in the future. I'd rather have the truth even if it isn't pretty.

[Sub-stance1]

I'm starting to think that you are truly hopeless.

Are you really going to act like the Media hasn't been blasting the airwaves with antigun news segments.

Or trying to mislead people in various ways.

And are you going to act like the media hasn't been using the issue as scare tactics and purposely misleading people?

Don't act stupid, you know the general public is clueless on these matters. And the media does nothing to change their ignorance, in fact it increases it even further.

Yea, just like they are clueless on healthcare, women's rights, jobs, social security,immigration, and everything else. People aren't as stupid as you think.

[Go ahead an ask any civilian what an assault rifle (not weapon which a bs media term) is? I'd be surprised if even 10% could tell you what features constitute a true assault trifle. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Never mind asking them about the current gun laws or what the supposed "gun show loophole is"

I don't agree. I think people know more about this issue than many others. It's a big thing for gun and non gun owners.

This has fuck all to do with polls about the 2012 election, if you can't even comprehend the difference there is no point in further conversing with you. But go ahead and continue to use that example in cases where it is completely irrelevant. It only serves to further highlight how out of touch you are with whatever the current conversation is about.

But it does have to do with polls and what they say. Those polls are saying that the majority of Americans want tougher gun laws.

You are a fool if you think the race/prejudice tactics are only used by one side. Democrats have been perpetrating those tactics since at least the time of LBJ. (if not earlier)

I know they are used by both sides. But look at who who is saying that they want more minority voters and only use rhetoric and no actions to get them. Which party thought they could win an election with only white voters? If they want want minority votes then they should act like it and sticking a spanish or black face out in front isn't gonna cut it regardless of the issue. It's like someone said"show me your policy and i'll tell you what you stand for".

here is but an example of the backlash over it:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywo...ican-Spokesman

Come on dude, you gave a link to Breit Bart. You gotta be kidding me. And you use that with Russell Simmons, so that constitutes a lot of backlash?...lol

Keep on toting the line that the NRA is all about the manufacturers and fearmongering. I gave you clear evidence showing how their fears are not misplaced and you refused to even acknowledge it (never mind accepting it).

I stand by what i said about them. They do care more about the gun manufactures and money than they do their members. It's been the same song and dance from them for years.

You also never answered several questions I asked you earlier, why is that? So scared of admitting the truth?

truth about what?

I'm sure those manufacturers also created several hundred thousand new NRA members out of thin air over the past few months, right?

I don't know but i'm sure the NRA loves it because they are the ones reaping the rewards. That's what they care about.

And if you think the NRA is on a tangent by itself you clearly haven't been looking at what the other 2nd amendment groups have been saying (Gun owners of america- Larry Pratt), (Second amendment foundation - Alan Gottlieb) or any individual with any significance in the gun industry.

Of course fire arm lobbying groups are gonna support the NRA on this issue. Are you serious? These same people will disagree with 99% of anything that comes from the white house. Most conservative activists don't like anything about Obama or anything that he does or propose anyway.

Keep on living in ignorance, and pray it serves you well in the future. I'd rather have the truth even if it isn't pretty.

I'm not living in ignorance. I go by the facts that are presented and they say most Americans support changes.

[MATRIX 2]

And are you going to act like the media hasn't been using the issue as scare tactics and purposely misleading people?

??? They have, and are pretty outspoken about it. To deny so is to deny the reality of the situation.

Yea, just like they are clueless on healthcare, women's rights, jobs, social security,immigration, and everything else. People aren't as stupid as you think.

All of those things have some relevance in the day to day lives of general public. The specific gun issues currently being discussed do not. Therefore people don't educate themselves about these issues and remain ignorant. Go watch any number of videos about people videotaping random people's responses on various subjects/issues. Their answers say all you need to know.

I don't agree. I think people know more about this issue than many others. It's a big thing for gun and non gun owners.

Bullshit, non gun owners had no real interest until the media started to hype it up. If that wasn't the case you would see normal people calling for gun control 24/7 and not just after mass shootings.

But it does have to do with polls and what they say. Those polls are saying that the majority of Americans want tougher gun laws.

That's great. How many people know what the current laws are, and therefore where the issues are with the law as it currently is? Anybody can be for or against something depending on their background knowledge and how you frame you questions.

Also you aren't asking why the polls are saying that. You aren't question participants on their current knowledge of such matters before polling them. That does make a difference because if they assume things to be a certain way (even if that way is incorrect from reality) then they will act/respond based on those perceptions.

I know they are used by both sides. But look at who who is saying that they want more minority voters and only use rhetoric and no actions to get them. Which party thought they could win an election with only white voters? If they want want minority votes then they should act like it and sticking a spanish or black face out in front isn't gonna cut it regardless of the issue. It's like someone said"show me your policy and i'll tell you what you stand for".

I don't think you keep track of this sort of the thing at the local level. Things are quite different at the national level, but participation in the local level is increasing.

Come on dude, you gave a link to Breit Bart. You gotta be kidding me. And you use that with Russell Simmons, so that constitutes a lot of backlash?...lol

Why did I know you would use an Ad hominem here? Breibart got the story from another site which they linked to. And Simmons just happened to be one of the first people (and a somewhat influential one at that) to comment about this particular NRA topic, he won't be the last. Though it is odd how he himself is black yet goes on to criticize another black man for having a different opinion and speaking out about it.

I stand by what i said about them. They do care more about the gun manufactures and money than they do their members. It's been the same song and dance from them for years.

I don't think you understand how lobby groups work. They typically receive contributions from the businesses in the industry that they lobby for. This is true for every lobby group/advocacy firm. You can keep on toting that line, but anybody that takes a real look of the NRA knows its actions are a direct result of what its members ask/push for.

truth about what?

Questions I've asked you in previous threads that have remained unanswered.

Like this for example:

http://www.psu.com/forums/showthread...=1#post5993782

http://www.psu.com/forums/showthread...=1#post5993801

What makes AR15's so bad that they are unfit for civilian ownership in your eyes? What makes them better than other weapons to "hunt down humans"? Why is an M1 Garand/M1 Carbine, Springfield M1A fine, but AR-15's not? Or other rifles (not used in the military) that are supposedly fine with similar capabilities?

And why do the police need them? What war are they fighting? Against whom? Who are they hunting down?

I don't know but i'm sure the NRA loves it because they are the ones reaping the rewards. That's what they care about.

ITT: Substance makes the most obvious statement in the world, one that would please any group that accepts membership.

And than you for saying that all the NRA cares about is increasing its membership (of average citizens). Not catering to the wishes of the gun manufacturers.

Of course fire arm lobbying groups are gonna support the NRA on this issue. Are you serious? These same people will disagree with 99% of anything that comes from the white house. Most conservative activists don't like anything about Obama or anything that he does or propose anyway.

HAHA, here you really show how clueless you are. Those two orgs's at the very best have an unfavorable opinion of the NRA. Why it that? They think the NRA is too soft, too willing to compromise. These groups don't compromise, at all. They are far more "extreme" than the NRA ever will be. These groups would prefer to have nothing to do with the NRA. What now, are you going to say that these other groups/individuals are also just puppets for the gun manufacturers and do not represent the view/opinions of the regular gun owner?

And I'm not even addressing the various 2nd amendment groups in each individual state.

I'm not living in ignorance. I go by the facts that are presented and they say most Americans support changes.

Most Americans are also clueless on this issue. So if they have no idea what they are talking about, or what the current laws are, I don't see why their opinion matters.

Last I checked, subject matter experts exist for a reason, and are often consulted/called in to testify before congress and state legislatures to inform legislators about various topics/issues.

[DayWalker]

party line? didn't they say they were a conservative group?

[DayWalker]

So you don't remember referencing me at all when you made that comment?



Yeah. And I'm somehow "like a 6 year old who learned a new term and just walks around using it at random", right?

So you never referenced me at all? Take a good look.

and this had what do do with you? I was responding to the poster WHO QUOTED THE 47% line.
this song ain't about you.

You were only referenced b/c that lien is the epitome of intellectual dishonesty... and you were nowhere to be found. How typical

hey you looked it up! congrats you know how to use the interwebs!!! Didn't think you had it in ya.

Now use it properly!

Hint: just b/c you don't agree with a position ≠ intellectual dishonesty.

[Vulgotha]

Bureaucrats...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphben...-conversation/


1.6 Billion rounds. Billion.

This is looney tunes shit, and D.C. can't do proper budget cuts?



Btw for comparison, the Department of Homeland Security alone has a bigger operating budget than the armed forces of Russia, France, India, Germany, UK and Brazil.

Nobody else think this is absolutely batshit insane?

[PeanutButterMunky]

Bureaucrats...

Aristocats...

[Vulgotha]

Hrm. Well, I'd be interested in seeing some statistics on how much ammo various agencies consume for training purposes.

Still, 1.8 Billion is a TON.

[PeanutButterMunky]

Nobody else think this is absolutely batshit insane?

Why yes... yes I do. There's a metric duckload of bullshit going on with the budget in this country.

[unicron7]

I'd be stoked if businesses in the country paid at the very least what normal blue collar guys pay in taxes each year. AT LEAST. Yeah, 35% on paper, but in reality due to tax loopholes in our tax code most of the time, 0%. There's right and then there's wrong. People who defend these companies actions disgust me. I know life is not meant to be fair...but come the fuck on. Just thought I'd drop in here and say that today. This topic has been bugging me the last couple of weeks. Bush tax cuts fucked us and in no way helped us. If these companies had been paying what they were supposed to be over the last decade, we wouldn't be in the shit hole we are now...or not that deep anyway.

Oh, and since I keep seeing this in the thread...I love guns, own one, and don't think they should be banned in any way. I do think a mandatory one time psych exam(will last the rest of your life. I mean hell, people already pay for and attend a class for concealed carry, this would be nothing) should be given before purchase (could be a tax write off?), but other than that, I don't mind.

[Chickenooble]

I'd be stoked if businesses in the country paid at the very least what normal blue collar guys pay in taxes each year. AT LEAST. Yeah, 35% on paper, but in reality due to tax loopholes in our tax code most of the time, 0%. There's right and then there's wrong. People who defend these companies actions disgust me. I know life is not meant to be fair...but come the fuck on. Just thought I'd drop in here and say that today. This topic has been bugging me the last couple of weeks. Bush tax cuts fucked us and in no way helped us. If these companies had been paying what they were supposed to be over the last decade, we wouldn't be in the shit hole we are now...or not that deep anyway.

How you managed to shit out of your fingertips and manifest words is beyond me.

As you sit in the comfort (powered and warmed/cooled thanks to an energy company) of your home (built by a business, with materials procured from a business, which bought raw materials from another business) wearing your comfortable clothes (that were made by a business that keeps the price of their product low by employing low skill labor from China) and typing on your computer (that is the product of decades worth of research by many companies) that was marketed (by a marketing company that contracted other companies to develop the marketing commercials) to you on your television (that was made in some Asian country, transported to you from a shipping company, and was sold to you from a big box electronic store), you make a very convincing argument as to how much you hate companies and business.

[PeanutButterMunky]

how you managed to shit out of your fingertips and manifest words is beyond me.

As you sit in the comfort (powered and warmed/cooled thanks to an energy company) of your home (built by a business, with materials procured from a business, which bought raw materials from another business) wearing your comfortable clothes (that were made by a business that keeps the price of their product low by employing low skill labor from china) and typing on your computer (that is the product of decades worth of research by many companies) that was marketed (by a marketing company that contracted other companies to develop the marketing commercials) to you on your television (that was made in some asian country, transported to you from a shipping company, and was sold to you from a big box electronic store), you make a very convincing argument as to how much you hate companies and business.

lol!

[unicron7]

How you managed to shit out of your fingertips and manifest words is beyond me.

As you sit in the comfort (powered and warmed/cooled thanks to an energy company) of your home (built by a business, with materials procured from a business, which bought raw materials from another business) wearing your comfortable clothes (that were made by a business that keeps the price of their product low by employing low skill labor from China) and typing on your computer (that is the product of decades worth of research by many companies) that was marketed (by a marketing company that contracted other companies to develop the marketing commercials) to you on your television (that was made in some Asian country, transported to you from a shipping company, and was sold to you from a big box electronic store), you make a very convincing argument as to how much you hate companies and business.

Still didn't address the issue bud. Oh, and just because pretty much EVERYONE has to depend on them to function, doesn't mean we have to cater to them and put up with their bullshit. Thanks!

[Chickenooble]

Still didn't address the issue bud. Oh, and just because pretty much EVERYONE has to depend on them to function, doesn't mean we have to cater to them and put up with their bullshit. Thanks!

Please refrain from insulting other members. ~Blacksite

You do have to cater to them and their bullshit. Why? "...because pretty much EVERYONE has to depend on them to function." The only way to break free of this is to learn the skills and acquire the tools necessary to produce their product or service with higher efficiency and lower costs. You're too lazy, though, and that's why you're always going to depend on those evil low-price, tax skipping companies.

Can't have it both ways, guy.

[unicron7]

*post deleted* No point in arguing with people (Chickenooble) who have no intention of carrying on a decent conversation

[Morganator]

and this had what do do with you? I was responding to the poster WHO QUOTED THE 47% line.
this song ain't about you.

You were only referenced b/c that lien is the epitome of intellectual dishonesty... and you were nowhere to be found. How typical

hey you looked it up! congrats you know how to use the interwebs!!! Didn't think you had it in ya.

Now use it properly!

Hint: just b/c you don't agree with a position ≠ intellectual dishonesty.

It's not your position that make you intellectually dishonest. It's your failure to acknowledge that it's wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary and keeping it IN SPITE of that evidence. The bailouts didn't work for the average American, the stimulus didn't work for the average American, the increased budget hasn't worked for the average American, the higher taxes won't work out for the average American, the shipping of jobs to China hasn't and will continue to not work for the average American, this country's policy of foreign interventionism hasn't and will continue to not work for the average American. The numbers don't lie when everything is taken into consideration. Democrats and Republicans alike haven't worked out for the average American. But hey. I'm like a six year old kid who's just recently learned a new term and is using it without knowing what it means, right?

By the way, I've already acknowledged the intellectual dishonesty of using the term 47% and its derivatives as pure stupidity and tripe so there was not a need to reference me at all.

[MATRIX 2]

[Valefor]

So, the Falkland Islands have just had a referendum on whether they wish to remain a UK territory, and voted in favour with only 3 people against it in a 90% turnout. Will Argentina accept their right to self-determination? Probably not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21750909