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  1. #4276
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    What type of gun control would have prevented that school shooting from happening? Think Columbine.
    The kind that involves unicorns and gnomes aka imaginary ones that never will exist because its not possible haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    That might be true but anecdotally, I feel like there can be cases where the situation may not have escalated if a gun wasn't present. Given that neither people were criminals.

    Much easier to kill with a gun than a knife...and sure that happens too but do we really think that school shooter would've been capable of going through that many people to kill the kids? It must've taken him minutes as without a gun, it would've taken him at least an hour and a lot more guts to do it.
    If people want to kill someone, they're going to kill someone. Case in point: UK.

    Also, firearms are used fairly extensively in the US for self defense. Alot of lives saved.


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    So there should be no restrictions, at all. ???

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    Putting stipulations on the second amendment by promoting extensive background checks, psychiatric evaluations and limits on physical attributes on firearms goes against every intent of the constitution set forth. All this is is another power grab. Putting stipulations on the second amendment will further invite tyranny. There's no other way to put this.

    On this topic, if you support such stipulations on the second amendment, you support tyranny. You are supporting setting up the government for its eventual power grab. If you support the abridging of the second amendment, you are a traitor. It's as simple as that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Putting stipulations on the second amendment by promoting extensive background checks, psychiatric evaluations and limits on physical attributes on firearms goes against every intent of the constitution set forth. All this is is another power grab. Putting stipulations on the second amendment will further invite tyranny. There's no other way to put this.

    On this topic, if you support such stipulations on the second amendment, you support tyranny. You are supporting setting up the government for its eventual power grab. If you support the abridging of the second amendment, you are a traitor. It's as simple as that.
    What's the punishment for being a traitor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    What's the punishment for being a traitor?
    Death. Though it's not enforced unless it's under extreme circumstances. To this day, less than a dozen people have been convicted of treason in the United States and less than a handful still have been executed. The rest have been simply exiled.

    What disgusts me the most is how children are being used to further political agendas. Those politicians that do this are the worst of the worst and deserve public executions. Civilians who continue to eat this rubbish deserve to be exiled and those who know better and continue to be willfully ignorant or turn a blind eye deserve the same punishment as would be reserved for politicians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Death. Though it's not enforced unless it's under extreme circumstances. To this day, less than a dozen people have been convicted of treason in the United States and less than a handful still have been executed. The rest have been simply exiled.

    What disgusts me the most is how children are being used to further political agendas. Those politicians that do this are the worst of the worst and deserve public executions. Civilians who continue to eat this rubbish deserve to be exiled and those who know better and continue to be willfully ignorant or turn a blind eye deserve the same punishment as would be reserved for politicians.
    So how many people are we talking about here that should be exiled...about half of America? Almost all democrats, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    So there should be no restrictions, at all. ???
    I have a hard time finding any legitimate reason for why. Criminal elements get automatic and explosive weaponry anyway, and every day citizens can in fact own these weapons- but at a ridiculously high cost and lots of paperwork.

    Or they can simply make homemade solutions very easily. Case in point: Boston.

    If you want to buy a fully automatic AK47, today in the US, it will run you thousands of dollars just for the purchase- let alone the needed costs and time to have the government grant you the license necessary to own it.

    Meanwhile, on the black market, such weapons go for a tiny fraction of the cost.

    I'm of the mind that the people should be allowed to own anything the government may. Obviously you can be priced out fairly easily, I don't know of many people that can afford a fully functional Abrams tank for instance, as it costs hundreds of millions of dollars.

    And I don't really think anybody could afford nuclear weaponry either lol. That, though, should fall under the purview of the government. Simply because radioactive and unstable materials present a very real innate danger unto themselves. So I'd draw the line at chemical\biological and nuclear weaponry.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 04-21-2013 at 23:24.


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  10. #4284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I have a hard time finding any legitimate reason for why. Criminal elements get automatic and explosive weaponry anyway, and every day citizens can in fact own these weapons- but at a ridiculously high cost and lots of paperwork.

    Or they can simply make homemade solutions very easily. Case in point: Boston.

    If you want to buy a fully automatic AK47, today in the US, it will run you thousands of dollars just for the purchase- let alone the needed costs and time to have the government grant you the license necessary to own it.

    Meanwhile, on the black market, such weapons go for a tiny fraction of the cost.

    I'm of the mind that the people should be allowed to own anything the government has may. Obviously you can be priced out fairly easily, I don't know of many people that can afford a fully functional Abrams tank for instance, as it costs hundreds of millions of dollars.

    And I don't really think anybody could afford nuclear weaponry either lol. That, though, should fall under the purview of the government. Simply because radioactive and unstable materials present a very real innate danger unto themselves. So I'd draw the line at chemical\biological and nuclear weaponry.
    So let me get this clear. You would be ok if all kinds of weaponry was available at Wal-Mart including ARs, grenade-launchers, bombs, grenades, claymores, mines, RPGs...that sort of thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    If people want to kill someone, they're going to kill someone. Case in point: UK.

    Also, firearms are used fairly extensively in the US for self defense. Alot of lives saved.
    Exactly, if a teacher had a gun, or someone in that theater. A lot of lives would have been saved. This is something democrats like to avoid thinking about, because it makes too much sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    What's the punishment for being a traitor?
    Death, but the government doesn't have the balls to execute people much these days, so the traitor is exiled or spends years in prison before they decide what to do with him.

    While I am not really from a religious stand-point in support of the death penalty. If a criminal knew that he would be executed for murdering someone, they might give it a second thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    So let me get this clear. You would be ok if all kinds of weaponry was available at Wal-Mart including ARs, grenade-launchers, bombs, grenades, claymores, mines, RPGs...that sort of thing?
    ARs are the only thing we are interested in. Grenade-Launchers, and RPGs serve the purpose of attacking a vehicle, otherwise an explosive would do the trick. And bombs, grenades, claymores and mines can all by homemade these days.
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  13. #4286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I'm not a gun expert here, I know you guys are much more knowlegeable than myself and I honestly think guns aren't the issue but want to look at the subject from an objective point of view, maybe there is something in there we're missing? Would you rather there were no restrictions at all?

    Look at this article, do you agree or disagree? I want to learn more about it but I've been kind of torn by both sides, it always seems to me that both sides have valid points.

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...ing/?mobile=nc
    This will tell you that the background checks for private sales wouldn't have stopped anything.

    Using instructions acquired upon the Internet, Harris and Klebold constructed a total of 99 improvised explosive devices of various designs and sizes. They sawed the barrels and butts off their shotguns to make them easier to conceal.[6] They committed numerous felony violations of state and federal law, including the National Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act of 1968, before they began the massacre.
    I'm not necessarily opposed of background checks though.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    So how many people are we talking about here that should be exiled...about half of America? Almost all democrats, no?
    Honestly, we could get rid of more than a third of the population. I prefer a one time educational course on the constitution and a lifestyle that reflects it. After that, if you support the abridging of any of the "Bill Of Rights" Amendments and preceding articles, you deserve at the minimum exile and if you turn a blind eye, you deserve death. This is what it will take to clean up this country of the filth that has infected it. The time for talk has ended and I honestly think that a one time educational course on the constitution and a lifestyle that reflects it is more than half of the willfully ignorant deserve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Exactly, if a teacher had a gun, or someone in that theater. A lot of lives would have been saved. This is something democrats like to avoid thinking about, because it makes too much sense.
    Maybe, but arming teachers at school or allowing guns in theaters won't solve the problem either.

    Death, but the government doesn't have the balls to execute people much these days, so the traitor is exiled or spends years in prison before they decide what to do with him.

    While I am not really from a religious stand-point in support of the death penalty. If a criminal knew that he would be executed for murdering someone, they might give it a second thought.
    It all depends on the murder.(circumstances, intent and motive) The justice system has proven to be flawed in some cases and execution is not a means of rehabilitation.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 04-22-2013 at 00:54.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Exactly, if a teacher had a gun, or someone in that theater. A lot of lives would have been saved. This is something democrats like to avoid thinking about, because it makes too much sense.


    Death, but the government doesn't have the balls to execute people much these days, so the traitor is exiled or spends years in prison before they decide what to do with him.

    While I am not really from a religious stand-point in support of the death penalty. If a criminal knew that he would be executed for murdering someone, they might give it a second thought.



    ARs are the only thing we are interested in. Grenade-Launchers, and RPGs serve the purpose of attacking a vehicle, otherwise an explosive would do the trick. And bombs, grenades, claymores and mines can all by homemade these days.
    All good points but I'm trying to figure out if you guys want any restriction at all. I mean, I agree with all the conservative point of views but there has to be a limit somewhere. Nuclear weapons are too far imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    This will tell you that the background checks for private sales wouldn't have stopped anything.

    I'm not necessarily opposed of background checks though.
    True but is it not possible that the solution is maybe a combination of certain things? I know that it's stupid to think that a lower mag is going to resolve anything but wouldn't that force the attacker to take longer as he'd have to reload?

    Yes then we run into the fact, well they could get guns that have no limit from the black market...well, true but you're closing at least some holes...the idea is to try and give people power WHILE trying to fill all the holes. It seems like conservatives want to leave all the holes open.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Honestly, we could get rid of more than a third of the population. I prefer a one time educational course on the constitution and a lifestyle that reflects it. After that, if you support the abridging of any of the "Bill Of Rights" Amendments and preceding articles, you deserve at the minimum exile and if you turn a blind eye, you deserve death. This is what it will take to clean up this country of the filth that has infected it. The time for talk has ended and I honestly think that a one time educational course on the constitution and a lifestyle that reflects it is more than half of the willfully ignorant deserve.
    haha it might just work but Goddamn dude lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Maybe, but arming teachers at school or allowing guns in theaters won't solve the problem either.


    It all depends on the murder.(circumstances, intent and motive) The justice system has proven to be flawed in some cases and execution is not a means of rehabilitation.
    No, it would not solve the problem. But the media expresses such a hatred for guns, its as if people shouldn't or they will get in trouble. Which currently is not the case.

    And I agree. Depending on the circumstances. If a guy goes and kills 5 people with no remorse, then he should be executed. Or a person who kidnaps and molests children, they should be gotten rid of as they don't change their ways, they just bid their time, and get back to it.
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    That's an extreme view but I understand. Definitely should be looked at case-by-case, a lot of grey area to deal with.

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    What restrictions have you in mind, Sufi?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    All good points but I'm trying to figure out if you guys want any restriction at all. I mean, I agree with all the conservative point of views but there has to be a limit somewhere. Nuclear weapons are too far imo.
    A lot of stuff is already illegal. I don't know exactly, but its the reason that gun owners are putting up such a fight over Assault Rifles.
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    Automatics and explosive weaponry is de facto illegal. Barring a stupid amount of regulations and red tape.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    What restrictions have you in mind, Sufi?
    I don't lol. I'm just trying to figure out what the real issue is. I mean, you guys agree there should be "some" restriction right? I mean, it shouldn't be like those tribal areas where you can keep an RPG at home?
    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    A lot of stuff is already illegal. I don't know exactly, but its the reason that gun owners are putting up such a fight over Assault Rifles.
    If ARs only account for fraction of the crimes then why are they fighting about the ARs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    If ARs only account for fraction of the crimes then why are they fighting about the ARs?
    Because they believe it to be more achievable. While they have banned handguns in place like New York city, and chicago. Crime is still very much alive there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    I don't lol. I'm just trying to figure out what the real issue is. I mean, you guys agree there should be "some" restriction right? I mean, it shouldn't be like those tribal areas where you can keep an RPG at home?

    If ARs only account for fraction of the crimes then why are they fighting about the ARs?
    -shrugs- why not have RPG's? I mean they'll be stupid expensive anyway. But I don't see why not.

    I certainly would have to think that there would be some restrictions on where one could safely use them, like maybe you could do it on your own property if you own X acreage of land or something.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Automatics and explosive weaponry is de facto illegal. Barring a stupid amount of regulations and red tape.
    So liberals just want to put a ban on it because...money? power? what gain? I don't understand why Obama is going hardcore with the gun laws...i did agree with it at first but now realize that it's already so difficult to get a gun, a background/mental check is just another red tape.

    I do feel that it should be easier for people to obtain gun as they may not have enough time. However, at the same time, it becomes easier for criminals...then again, they can get it from black market...which is tougher but can be done.

    Can we at least say that some people might give it a second thought? At least the light murderers that just wanna murder their spouse? Not kidding btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    Because they believe it to be more achievable. While they have banned handguns in place like New York city, and chicago. Crime is still very much alive there.
    I just don't understand why there isn't a somewhat unanimous decision. I sort of agree the side of conservatives in this matter. I do think there comes a certain point where you can't just rely on calling 911, you have to defend yourself and quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    -shrugs- why not have RPG's? I mean they'll be stupid expensive anyway. But I don't see why not.

    I certainly would have to think that there would be some restrictions on where one could safely use them, like maybe you could do it on your own property if you own X acreage of land or something.
    I guess that's true. I've seen videos on youtube where people use ARs and it seems pretty safe...seems like they're out in the wild almost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Kwesnoth- View Post
    No, it would not solve the problem. But the media expresses such a hatred for guns, its as if people shouldn't or they will get in trouble. Which currently is not the case.
    I don't think they are exactly expressing hatred. There are some gun owners out there not against tougher background checks. Even if the bill had passed any law abiding citizen could still go out and legally purchase a gun.
    Originally Posted by Sufi
    If ARs only account for fraction of the crimes then why are they fighting about the ARs?
    Because it's basically a military styled assault weapon.

    -shrugs- why not have RPG's? I mean they'll be stupid expensive anyway. But I don't see why not.

    I certainly would have to think that there would be some restrictions on where one could safely use them, like maybe you could do it on your own property if you own X acreage of land or something.
    RPGs?...lol That will never happen legally. It's a military grade high explosive.

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    But isn't that another red tape?

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