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  1. #4551
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    No, my facts are correct. If you can find the vote count that contradicts that, I'll be happy to admit to being wrong.

    I would love to be wrong on the negativity I have over the Obamacare, and how it's going to put us further in the hole. The people didn't vote on it bro. The Democrats made it the law. Period. Not ifs ands or buts about that.
    Fear, the supreme court passed the law. What don't you understand about that? They couldn't of passed it without republican support. You really needs to check your facts. One party just can't make something a law. That's not how it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Wow, thanks for letting me know. smh It isn't free to leave.

    Let me know how you like your health insurance premiums go up 40+% over the next year. Let me know how much you enjoy knowing that our national debt continues to go up, up, and up. It's awesome knowing that the President won't negotiate with the US Congress, but will negotiate with Syria lol. Goodness. The list could go on. Not just the President of course.. Congress is just as messed up as the President is.

    Can you give me an idea of what is actually good for the country in regards to the President and Congress? Maybe you're a lot smarter than I am when it comes to these things. Enlighten me.
    Despite our issues, the USA is still the greatest overall country in the world to live in. Sure, other countries have a handful of things they are better at, but they also have their shortcomings. And they cannot match the breadth of what the USA has to offer.

    We have problem, but we can solve them if we choose to. Sure you can just sit back and complain but that isn't going to accomplish anything. It takes action and effort to fix our problems. Something I'm willing to do and am actively working towards. I'm not just going to sit and watch everything go to hell. I'm going to fight to fix our problems and make this country unquestionably great once again.

    I'm working to make changes in the system, since that is the only way to have a real meaningful change for the better. Some people are also trying to do the same, but only for the purposes of their agenda, which isn't in the best interest for the nation as a whole. It isn't easy working against people on two fronts, but success can be achieved. But it will take a lot of time, effort and money to achieve. It will not be easy, but we cannot sit by and do nothing.

    So are you going to step up and put in the effort to right this country again and put us on a proper course? Or are you going to abandon ship and watch it sink into the bottom of the ocean?

    Also I'd love to know which country you would consider going to (that would let you in) that is deemed to be "better" overall than the USA.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    No it didn't. The Republicans could have acted like adults and negotiated things responsibility, instead of forcing a shutdown and causing a host of unnecessary issues just because they're upset.
    Kicking the can down the road isn't a proper or responsible strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Fear, the supreme court passed the law. What don't you understand about that? They couldn't of passed it without republican support. You really needs to check your facts. One party just can't make something a law. That's not how it works.
    The supreme court said it was constitutional (essentially calling it a tax), that was all.

    As for the votes on it:

    Senate:

    The bill then passed by a vote of 60–39 on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two independents voting for, and all Republicans voting against

    House:

    The House passed the Senate bill with a 219–212 vote on March 21, 2010, with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it

    Seems like it was one-sided to me.

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  4. #4553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Fear, the supreme court passed the law. What don't you understand about that? They couldn't of passed it without republican support. You really needs to check your facts. One party just can't make something a law. That's not how it works.
    LOL.

    Ok, so a 5-4 vote on the commerce clause... wtf. You don't have a freakin' clue what you're talking about man. This doesn't have an single thing to do with Republican support lol. Unless of course, you're saying that the SCOTUS votes by party now.

    This might help ya:
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...obamacare.html

    I'm trying to figure out where you're pulling "republican support" from. If they ALL voted against it, minus one that didn't vote at all... where does it support the law passing?
    Last edited by F34R; 10-02-2013 at 04:12.




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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Despite our issues, the USA is still the greatest overall country in the world to live in.
    Informative argument needed. What are we the best at?

    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Kicking the can down the road isn't a proper or responsible strategy.
    What a vapid response.

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    Why doesn't America just default.... rebuild and get their $#@! together, sure it will affect everybody and it will create an apocalypse of crime and anger for people who feel they have their whole world disrupted. But it's better to happen now than in the future.

    Sure it will affect the rest of the world too but it will help the rest of the world reshape america everyone wins.
    " A Toll's a toll and a roll's a roll. If we don't get no toll's, then we don't eat no roll's"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    Despite our issues, the USA is still the greatest overall country in the world to live in. Sure, other countries have a handful of things they are better at, but they also have their shortcomings. And they cannot match the breadth of what the USA has to offer.

    We have problem, but we can solve them if we choose to. Sure you can just sit back and complain but that isn't going to accomplish anything. It takes action and effort to fix our problems. Something I'm willing to do and am actively working towards. I'm not just going to sit and watch everything go to hell. I'm going to fight to fix our problems and make this country unquestionably great once again.

    I'm working to make changes in the system, since that is the only way to have a real meaningful change for the better. Some people are also trying to do the same, but only for the purposes of their agenda, which isn't in the best interest for the nation as a whole. It isn't easy working against people on two fronts, but success can be achieved. But it will take a lot of time, effort and money to achieve. It will not be easy, but we cannot sit by and do nothing.

    So are you going to step up and put in the effort to right this country again and put us on a proper course? Or are you going to abandon ship and watch it sink into the bottom of the ocean?

    Also I'd love to know which country you would consider going to (that would let you in) that is deemed to be "better" overall than the USA.
    What exactly are YOU going to do. Unless you are going to personally become a super politician and toss out the garbage personally, what then? There simply comes a point where worrying about our continually going down the $#@!ter government becomes a full time job, and I for one am not here to be a politician. A lot of us have our lives to live, and no matter how much attention one gives to this mess, that is all it has proven to be.

    No, back to just voting for whoever seems more likely to do something helpful. I will be damned if anyone gonna catch me holding my breadth that they will ever get their crap together.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Informative argument needed. What are we the best at?
    We have a lot of freedom to do as we please (for the most part). We have the best healthcare in the world (though it isn't as accessible to everyone due to costs) We have the top technology companies in the world. We have the best universities in the world. We have a great amount of cultural diversity and somehow make it all work. We have a great variation of terrain and climate across the US (china and Russia don't have $#@! on us). We have many top scientific research and pharmaceutical companies. Despite what you may hear on the news, we still have significant manufacturing jobs in the us, hell we have the (arguably) best aerospace company (boeing). I can go on and on. There are far to many things to list.

    Here is a decent video with a brief summary:




    What a vapid response.
    It's the truth. Sorry if you have trouble dealing with that or accepting it.

  9. #4558
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post


    The supreme court said it was constitutional (essentially calling it a tax), that was all.

    As for the votes on it:

    Senate:

    The bill then passed by a vote of 60–39 on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two independents voting for, and all Republicans voting against

    House:

    The House passed the Senate bill with a 219–212 vote on March 21, 2010, with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it

    Seems like it was one-sided to me.
    I know what the vote was. It doesn't even matter because it was signed into law. Republicans bet on the law being unconstitutional and they lost.


    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    LOL.

    Ok, so a 5-4 vote on the commerce clause... wtf. You don't have a freakin' clue what you're talking about man. This doesn't have an single thing to do with Republican support lol. Unless of course, you're saying that the SCOTUS votes by party now.

    This might help ya:
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...obamacare.html

    I'm trying to figure out where you're pulling "republican support" from. If they ALL voted against it, minus one that didn't vote at all... where does it support the law passing?
    So wait, this bill has been signed into law and you are saying i have no idea what i'm talking about. Do you realize that it doesn't matter who supported what. ITS THE LAW! The supreme court had every opportunity to strike it down. The bill had bipartisan support Fear. I can't put it in simpler terms. There are republicans who supported the bill. Not entirely everything in it, but they did support parts of it. Most of the negativity about the bill came from the House. I think we all know why. This is just another case of if Obama is for something we have to be against it. They have been doing this since he got elected. We can't get our way so we will take our ball and go home. This is how the republicans are playing the game. The people have decided. They lost and they have to just suck it up.

    Just because we don't like a law or don't get our way, that doesn't mean we should shut the gov down. Republicans had every opportunity to defeat this law and they failed. There is none to blame but themselves. They ran with defeating Obama care with Romney and they lost. Now they are acting like spoiled brats because the President won't bend to their ways. It's time for them to move on and get past this Obama derangement syndrome.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 10-02-2013 at 05:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D3seeker View Post
    What exactly are YOU going to do. Unless you are going to personally become a super politician and toss out the garbage personally, what then? There simply comes a point where worrying about our continually going down the $#@!ter government becomes a full time job, and I for one am not here to be a politician. A lot of us have our lives to live, and no matter how much attention one gives to this mess, that is all it has proven to be.

    No, back to just voting for whoever seems more likely to do something helpful. I will be damned if anyone gonna catch me holding my breadth that they will ever get their crap together.
    We must enlighten people. Open their eyes. Too many people are stuck on the idea of supporting specific politicians or just sticking with politicians from the two major parties. They need to realize that there are alternative options and that tying yourself to any single party or group is foolish. People should vote for the best candidate, not who belongs to the party they prefer.

    That starts with ridding ourselves of those in the various parts of the govt. (congress, executive branch, state legislatures, state governorships, city council's, ect.) that either are focused on serving themselves or not listing to the will of their constituents and upholding our constitution.

    That starts with everyone doing their due diligence every 2 years when we have elections so that we can vote for the best candidate. And holding those who we elected accountable in the interim between elections.

    It also involves getting fresh blood in our political system with new candidates that won't sell out or ignore their constituents. Those that view being elected to be a public service rather than a lifetime career.

    Ultimately many people do not realize that we the people have the power over our government and we can make changes if we want to. Too many people make excuses for doing this, but it is the truth. The question is whether we are willing to say enough is enough, or just roll over and take it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I know what the vote was. It doesn't even matter because it was signed into law. Republicans bet on the law being unconstitutional and they lost.



    So wait, this bill has been signed into law and you are saying i have no idea what i'm talking about. Do you realize that it doesn't matter who supported what. ITS THE LAW! The supreme court had every opportunity to strike it down. The bill had bipartisan support Fear. I can't put it in simpler terms. There are republicans who supported the bill. Not entirely everything in it, but they did support parts of it. Most of the negativity about the bill came from the House. I think we all know why. This is just another case of if Obama is for something we have to be against it. They have been doing this since he got elected. We can't get our way so we will take our ball and go home. This is how the republicans are playing the game. The people have decided. They lost and they have to just suck it up.

    Just because we don't like a law or don't get our way, that doesn't mean we should shut the gov down. Republicans had every opportunity to defeat this law and they failed. There is none to blame but themselves. They ran with defeating Obama care with Romney and they lost. Now they are acting like spoiled brats because the President won't bend to their ways. It's time for them to move on and get past this Obama derangement syndrome.
    You do realize that just because a law is ruled constitutional, doesn't make it good right? It can be a bad constitutional law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    You do realize that just because a law is ruled constitutional, doesn't make it good right? It can be a bad constitutional law.
    It doesn't matter if it's good or bad. It's constitutional. First, get the supported votes to repeal it, then you can talk about the changes. The people voted and they wanted universal health care. Paying alimony and child support isn't good or right in every case, but it's the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I know what the vote was. It doesn't even matter because it was signed into law. Republicans bet on the law being unconstitutional and they lost.



    So wait, this bill has been signed into law and you are saying i have no idea what i'm talking about. Do you realize that it doesn't matter who supported what. ITS THE LAW! The supreme court had every opportunity to strike it down. The bill had bipartisan support Fear. I can't put it in simpler terms. There are republicans who supported the bill. Not entirely everything in it, but they did support parts of it. Most of the negativity about the bill came from the House. I think we all know why. This is just another case of if Obama is for something we have to be against it. They have been doing this since he got elected. We can't get our way so we will take our ball and go home. This is how the republicans are playing the game. The people have decided. They lost and they have to just suck it up.

    Just because we don't like a law or don't get our way, that doesn't mean we should shut the gov down. Republicans had every opportunity to defeat this law and they failed. There is none to blame but themselves. They ran with defeating Obama care with Romney and they lost. Now they are acting like spoiled brats because the President won't bend to their ways. It's time for them to move on and get past this Obama derangement syndrome.
    Ok.. so bipartisan support means one side votes for it, while the entire other side doesn't vote for it?

    There are many aspects of it that I think are actually really good. However, that doesn't mean I SUPPORT THE damned thing. So because I don't like the majority of it, but like a few things of it, does that mean I support it; and then vote "NO" for it, and that means I support it? smh

    Most, if not all of, Congress didn't even know what the hell was in the 900+ pages (now over 2000 pages) of the damn bill. Yet, almost all the Democrats voted "YES" for it, while the Republicans all voted "NO". That is the House and Senate. How are you not understanding that? The Republicans couldn't defeat the bill before it became a law because the House and Senate were controlled by Democrats. All Democrat Senators, and all but 34 Democrats in the House is what passed the bill into law. No Republican support at all. PERIOD. FACT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    It doesn't matter if it's good or bad. It's constitutional. First, get the supported votes to repeal it, then you can talk about the changes. The people voted and they wanted universal health care. Paying alimony and child support isn't good or right in every case, but it's the law.
    The People didn't get a single vote on Obamacare. Sorry.
    Last edited by F34R; 10-02-2013 at 05:48.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Ok.. so bipartisan support means one side votes for it, while the entire other side doesn't vote for it?

    There are many aspects of it that I think are actually really good. However, that doesn't mean I SUPPORT THE damned thing. So because I don't like the majority of it, but like a few things of it, does that mean I support it; and then vote "NO" for it, and that means I support it? smh

    Most, if not all of, Congress didn't even know what the hell was in the 900+ pages (now over 2000 pages) of the damn bill. Yet, almost all the Democrats voted "YES" for it, while the Republicans all voted "NO". That is the House and Senate. How are you not understanding that? The Republicans couldn't defeat the bill before it became a law because the House and Senate were controlled by Democrats. All Democrat Senators, and all but 34 Democrats in the House is what passed the bill into law. No Republican support at all. PERIOD. FACT.
    Now, the only fact that matters is it's a law. It doesn't matter what you like or don't like about it. They couldn't defeat the bill because they couldn't get the support to back them . They failed to get the votes to repeal it over 40 times. They had opportunities long before this thing went to the supreme court. They couldn't convince enough people that the bill was bad. They had their chances to rip it apart with several national debates in front of millions of voters and they failed. PERIOD. FACT.



    The People didn't get a single vote on Obamacare. Sorry.
    Yes they did. The majority wanted it. Obama's reelection was partly because of it. He got the majority of the votes so they were voting for Obamacare. What did the other side have to offer other than rhetoric? They wanna repeal it but we have nothing to replace it. It never ends. First the stimulus was bad and then Obama care. What's gonna be next?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Fear, the supreme court passed the law. What don't you understand about that? They couldn't of passed it without republican support. You really needs to check your facts. One party just can't make something a law. That's not how it works.
    The Supreme Court didn't pass anything. It simply upheld the law. And yes, Democrats rammed the law through despite the Republicans' disapproval.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    We must enlighten people. Open their eyes. Too many people are stuck on the idea of supporting specific politicians or just sticking with politicians from the two major parties. They need to realize that there are alternative options and that tying yourself to any single party or group is foolish. People should vote for the best candidate, not who belongs to the party they prefer.

    That starts with ridding ourselves of those in the various parts of the govt. (congress, executive branch, state legislatures, state governorships, city council's, ect.) that either are focused on serving themselves or not listing to the will of their constituents and upholding our constitution.

    That starts with everyone doing their due diligence every 2 years when we have elections so that we can vote for the best candidate. And holding those who we elected accountable in the interim between elections.

    It also involves getting fresh blood in our political system with new candidates that won't sell out or ignore their constituents. Those that view being elected to be a public service rather than a lifetime career.

    Ultimately many people do not realize that we the people have the power over our government and we can make changes if we want to. Too many people make excuses for doing this, but it is the truth. The question is whether we are willing to say enough is enough, or just roll over and take it.
    In other words it still comes down to holding them accountable. sigh.... They have certainly resemble a circus as of late rather than a national governing body. Getting the people to listen and work wont be easy, but it's the only way to even hope for the American government to act right

    Sent from the Warlock


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Now, the only fact that matters is it's a law. It doesn't matter what you like or don't like about it. They couldn't defeat the bill because they couldn't get the support to back them . They failed to get the votes to repeal it over 40 times. They had opportunities long before this thing went to the supreme court. They couldn't convince enough people that the bill was bad. They had their chances to rip it apart with several national debates in front of millions of voters and they failed. PERIOD. FACT.




    Yes they did. The majority wanted it. Obama's reelection was partly because of it. He got the majority of the votes so they were voting for Obamacare. What did the other side have to offer other than rhetoric? They wanna repeal it but we have nothing to replace it. It never ends. First the stimulus was bad and then Obama care. What's gonna be next?
    Just because something is the law of the land doesn't mean you lay down and stop fighting it. If that was the case.... we would have never gotten rid of slavery, Jim Crow laws, etc etc. If you go by MAJORITY RULES... then whites out number blacks, I guess we shouldn't give blacks any say in things or resist bad laws....right? Cuz you know....MAJORITY RULES.....right?


    As for not convincing people it was bad? As Rush Limbaugh says.... "You can't beat Santa Claus".

    Why does he say that? Cuz the Democrats promise the world. They always push free rent assistance, free utilities assistance, free food stamps, free money for college, free contraceptives, etc etc etc. Since about 45% of the country pays little to no federal income tax.... of course they are gonna vote in the gravy train democrats. When you ain't paying those taxes yourselves, it's easy to vote in the people who will raise the taxes of OTHER PEOPLE... i.e. NOT YOU.

    In credit card debt? No problem..... just file for bankruptcy and legally stiff your creditors. Democrats aren't about MAKING their own money, but finding ways of TAKING the money of others. In the case of a bankruptcy... you basically took the money of the creditors and pay pennies on the dollar back to them or if at all.....the democrat way.

    Look at Public Broadcasting (PBS) television. They have been getting public money to subsidize their liberal ideology network for about the last 45 years. And when we try to cut them off, the democrats and Obama tried to say Mitt Romney was trying to kill off POOR Big Bird. Nevermind the fact that Big Bird and his Muppet pals rake in tens of MILLIONS of dollars each year in merchandising...... making them part of the top 1%. But no no no... we must keep giving our hard earned taxes to help fund them despite the fact they bring in MILLIONS and could pay their own way.

    Do you feel like you were born the wrong sex? Do you want a sex change? Do you work for government? Well if you answered YES to all three... then you are in luck by voting for democrats. Cuz they are the ones that made laws forcing taxpayers to pay for a government worker's sex change operation. Cuz you know.... if there is a way for them to get something they want while making someone else pay for it....it's the democrats to the rescue.

    And with ObamaCare..... they have promised the world. So how did Obama get re-elected? By promising the world and vowing to make rich people to pay for most of it.

    Just cuz Obama was voted in by a majority doesn't mean the majority wanted ObamaCare. The polls have consistently shown over the years that the MAJORITY of people polled don't like the law and the numbers have only gotten worse for the law since.


    Oh and remember Sub-stance1..... you know the democrats blame the republicans for no immigration reform law...right? Even though they had the presidency and the majority in BOTH the house AND the Senate from 2008-2010...right? Meaning they could have made any immigration reform they wanted and the republicans would have been powerless to stop them.

    And did they pass a law? NOPE. Yet now that the republicans have the majority in the house, all of a sudden it's the republican's fault as to why we don't have a reform bill passed. And that's how they got Latinos to vote for Obama.... to blame it on the republicans and completely gloss over the fact that the democrats never passed one when they had ALL the power.

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    What's wrong with the United States is the country is too far to the left and too far to the right on issues. We need more conservative democrats and liberal republicans.

    When things are too far to the left, like perhaps the new health care act about to really take effect, it causes problems like the one we have now. When things are too far to the right, the same thing can occur.

    I think when issue solutions are centered, neither too far to the right or too far to the left, that's when the country is at its best.

    The problem is the parties aren't compromising like they should. The U.S. people wanted health care reform but because the Republicans were too busy trying to knock it down rather than make it better, the law is too far to the left.

    Politics on both sides are destroying this country or making it worse.

    By the way, I am one of the few black people I know who believes Obama could do a better job as president. Like the poster above me stated, if Obama wasn't playing politics, why didn't he pass things til his heart's content when the dems had the house and senate?

    My father says Obama wanted bipartism or whatever, but screw that. If you care about the country, if you are truly for "change" then why do you need it to "change" the country?

    It's all politics. I hate to say it, but politics in this country needs reform.

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  20. #4568
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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    We have a lot of freedom to do as we please (for the most part). We have the best healthcare in the world (though it isn't as accessible to everyone due to costs) We have the top technology companies in the world. We have the best universities in the world. We have a great amount of cultural diversity and somehow make it all work. We have a great variation of terrain and climate across the US (china and Russia don't have $#@! on us). We have many top scientific research and pharmaceutical companies. Despite what you may hear on the news, we still have significant manufacturing jobs in the us, hell we have the (arguably) best aerospace company (boeing). I can go on and on. There are far to many things to list.
    What qualifies in your mind as a leader of technology (let's ignore that these companies are usually international anyway)? Because generally America is declining in innovation and funding less on scientific projects, or outright shutting some down. Sadly, we're not the scientific and technological leader of the world. You also state that our universities are better, yet fail to realize this is only due to our high amount of colleges here. The average is entirely unremarkable, and the free education for children and teenagers is completely abysmal. Don't forget the massive student debts that have expanded rapidly the past decades.

    The United States has a bloated and inefficient healthcare system that's actually rated lower in numerous comparisons involving wait times, surgeries and treatments, life expectancy, obesity, and patient opinions on how satisfied they were with the system and services. The World Health Organization rates us as about average among other modern industrialized nations. We have the highest expenditure for healthcare in the world, where care remains unavailable for those most unfortunate and in need of aid. Also, the companies and pharmaceuticals that control our medicine and insurance have us completely $#@!ed.

    We have the highest incarceration per capita rate in the world, many being in there for nonviolent drug-related crimes. We're also pretty damn good at wasting a lot of money on our military. We have one of the most disgusting disparities of wealth (which is getting worse) of any nation in the world. We have a collapsing infrastructure that's in serious need of maintenance and upgrades. We refuse to better ourselves in a multitude of ways (energy production, equal rights, education, imperial system, etc). And, finally, we're not that free with things such as the Patriot Act, NSA, and secret court rulings going on behind closed doors.

    So forgive me if I don't find your argument convincing. I'm still not seeing what puts this country on some golden throne. If anything, it seems like what America is no.1 at is being delusional. We can do better. We should do better. What we shouldn't do is tell ourselves that we're the best country when we're very clearly not.

    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    It's the truth. Sorry if you have trouble dealing with that or accepting it.
    This isn't the truth. That's still purely an opinionated statement. I can't see any successful argument for this.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 10-02-2013 at 11:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Now, the only fact that matters is it's a law. It doesn't matter what you like or don't like about it. They couldn't defeat the bill because they couldn't get the support to back them . They failed to get the votes to repeal it over 40 times. They had opportunities long before this thing went to the supreme court. They couldn't convince enough people that the bill was bad. They had their chances to rip it apart with several national debates in front of millions of voters and they failed. PERIOD. FACT.




    Yes they did. The majority wanted it. Obama's reelection was partly because of it. He got the majority of the votes so they were voting for Obamacare. What did the other side have to offer other than rhetoric? They wanna repeal it but we have nothing to replace it. It never ends. First the stimulus was bad and then Obama care. What's gonna be next?
    That's all any politician offers pal.

    It's like when Obama was a Senator:
    “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills. ... I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”
    Now, how does that look?It's what politicians do. They promise one thing, and oppose the other, while not fulfilling their duties and promises they made just to get votes.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    It doesn't matter if it's good or bad. It's constitutional. First, get the supported votes to repeal it, then you can talk about the changes. The people voted and they wanted universal health care. Paying alimony and child support isn't good or right in every case, but it's the law.


    Its not the process, its obamacare itself that is unconstitutional.
    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.




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    How is it unconstitutional? It's gone though ever step literally by the paper and deemed fully constitutional by... well, everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    How is it unconstitutional? It's gone though ever step literally by the paper and deemed fully constitutional by... well, everyone.
    a 5-4 vote in the SCOTS isn't "everyone".

    I'm not sure where you get that it is constitutional to REQUIRE citizens pay for health care, or they have to pay a penalty... *cough.. erm, a tax. The only reason they make it a requirement is so that the people that CAN pay for it will do so, and the ones that can't pay for it, still won't have to pay for it. They'll get the same $#@! they do now. Subsidized credits.

    What a wash this government is.
    Last edited by F34R; 10-02-2013 at 12:57.




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    America should have a version of our (uk's nhs). Surely they could make it work...

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    a 5-4 vote in the SCOTS isn't "everyone".
    I don't see how this is relevant. It passed through the Government regardless. You'd think if there was a legitimate and coherent argument then there would have been some persuasion to its opposition. But maybe I'm overestimating the critical thinking of our Government here.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I'm not sure where you get that it is constitutional to REQUIRE citizens pay for health care, or they have to pay a penalty... *cough.. erm, a tax. The only reason they make it a requirement is so that the people that CAN pay for it will do so, and the ones that can't pay for it, still won't have to pay for it. They'll get the same $#@! they do now. Subsidized credits.
    I seriously have no idea what you're trying to say here.

    Quote Originally Posted by jj03 View Post
    America should have a version of our (uk's nhs). Surely they could make it work...
    A friend of mine, who lives in Scotland, said yesterday that the NHS was kinda $#@!ty. Though he didn't go into much detail as to why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    I don't see how this is relevant. It passed through the Government regardless. You'd think if there was a legitimate and coherent argument then there would have been some persuasion to its opposition. But maybe I'm overestimating the critical thinking of our Government here.



    I seriously have no idea what you're trying to say here.



    A friend of mine, who lives in Scotland, said yesterday that the NHS was kinda $#@!ty. Though he didn't go into much detail as to why.
    Well, there was plenty of persuasion.. just not enough to swing that one vote in the SCOTUS. You have ONE party that voted it into law. You have 5 out of 9 SCJ vote it as constitutional. That means there is plenty of opposition. Hopefully if it breaks America, those that voted for it are dealt with next year.




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